Open mike 20/04/2023

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, April 20th, 2023 - 73 comments
Categories: open mike - Tags:


Open mike is your post.

For announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose.

The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the Policy).

Step up to the mike …

73 comments on “Open mike 20/04/2023 ”

  1. tsmithfield 1

    I see Jack has resigned, which was probably the right thing to do. People need to put their brains into gear on social media. And the fact he didn't suggests he may not have the smarts for a stellar political career anyway.

    Though, he could have claimed that what he was retweeting was simply artistic expression and therefore fine to retweet lol.

    From the article:

    Finally, Stuff underlines that that poem is a work of art, not journalism…

    • Mac1 1.1

      A day is a long time in politics….. It's like watching the weather at the end of TV1 News- "A fine Autumn day on the Taieri plains then in comes a cold blast from Wellington and 'Schvroom!' It's gone."

    • Sanctuary 1.2

      Just another rural arsehole. They manufacture them by the shit ton from our colonial squatocracy out there in Aertex land, and National loves to select them.

    • pat 1.3

      Does anybody else see a parallel with social media statements by Marama Davidson?

      Our politicians (and candidates) reflect cohorts of our population and succeed or fail on (largely) public support…what purpose is served by only selecting 'acceptable' public persona's?

      Give them all the rope the need.

    • Tricledrown 1.4

      Trumpisms,mysogyny conspiracy theories etc don't go that well in NZ. Hopefully those people all vote for Billy TK. Groundswill have been involved in this nasty behavior and undermined the Unity on the right.They know they can't get enough traction with their tractor protests so are happy to indulge useful idiots and fringe lunatics when they would have had a bigger influence if they had stuck to sticking up for the agricultural sector!

      • tsmithfield 1.4.1

        Like Pat above, I don't think it is only people from National that have been saying some fairly inappropriate or inflammatory stuff lately. It has been coming from the left as well.

        The first retweet was really just retweeting the sort of stuff that probably gets said in a lot of male changing rooms. Definitely inappropriate, sexist, and bad taste. But par for the course in stand-up comedy. And it was a retweet, not something he had actually said. But not at the “resign” threshold, IMO.

        But, retweeting comments equating Jacinda with Hitler is completely out of line. I think there is a huge benchmark to meet to be equated with Hitler. And I think the term "Nazi" is thrown around far too lighlty these days. Anyone wanting to brand someone in that way should perhaps do a bit of research first.

        So, taking both together, I think it shows a lack of judgement that is crucial for being an MP. So, resigning was the right thing to do.

        • Nic the NZer 1.4.1.1

          Do you think Groundswell spiked the candidate by presenting them with an accident rich social media environment?

        • Shanreagh 1.4.1.2

          Good fair points TSmithfield. Resigning was the best thing to do. These Nazi slurs, thrown about SM with aparent abandon during Covid, are, courtesy of trackback often with us into the future.

          Like Pat I see faults from right & left.

          What seems to be the difference is that the Right, in this case, have been quick to say, 'that's going to be an ongoing liability for us and doesn't reflect our values'.

          The Greens/Marama Davisdon don't seem to have the same ability of self reflection alothough some forward thinking may come out of the Kerekere enquiry. Like Davidson's disdain for any view other than support of the Trans cause that culminated in rudeness/misinformation, so Kerekere may find that rudensss to colleagues and others is not a winning strategy If she is moved, her appalling rudeness to submitters to the Select Committee may be punished by default,

          I agree with the comment about Nazis. The more it is used inappropriately the more we, as human beings, are unable to to be able to use the Nazis/The Holocaust/genocide as examples of man's inhumanity to man. Hence I have no truck with calling people Nazis, calling the concern about women's safe spaces genocide and generally trying to infer that anything happening trans-wise is anything like 'a' Holocaust.

          • alwyn 1.4.1.2.1

            I wonder if this somewhat over-egged reaction is going to become the normal thing? There will have to be an awful lot of departures from politics if it does.

            Megan Woods will certainly have to be shown the door. You can't compare a PM to Hitler can you?

            https://www.newshub.co.nz/politics/mp-mortified-by-offence-over-hitler-comments-2012062718

            • Shanreagh 1.4.1.2.1.1

              I think in the past (even 2012 is the past!) it used to be stamped on from a great height.

              The current overuse of the word Nazis is linked to this Trans indeology we are being subjected to. A Nazi in this context is anyone who you think might not agree with you.

              Proponents have a simple little list, shared worldwide it seems, with words to be used instead of engaging in debate.

              These words include Nazi, bigot, Terf. cis etc plus a huge number of emoticons such as the ones for turd.

              Before I stopped looking at this stuff on Twitter I was blessed sometimes with Nazi, bigot, Terf and the turd emoticon in one sentence. If we were come down hard we would be running around like one of those Whack a mole machines.

              https://www.macmillandictionary.com/dictionary/british/whack-a-mole

      • Graeme 1.4.2

        That's essentially the problem National have with candidate selection in rural electorates. If they select a mature moderate candidate the less moderate will vote for the Groundswell / VFF / Advance / Matt King candidate, and probably spread the diss rural vote across all of the vehicles. Result being 4% + of vote being wasted, and National being back in opposition, again.

        So somehow National have to try and bring that diss rural vote back inside the 'broad church'. Hence we end up with Steven Jack getting nominated.

        In the same vein I wonder if my local MP, Joseph Mooney's attempt to redefine TOW wasn't to establish some credibility with the discontented rural side to see off a challenge to his nomination.

        • Peter 1.4.2.1

          The problem is to attract good people who'd want to be MPs. A candidate could be ideal from all sorts of perspectives but the instant a person becomes a candidate they become a target.

          Morons, mongrels and meatheads will latch on to anything to propagate crap.

          The calls consistently heard are, "division, divisive and divided country."

          'Division' is in the common current default position. It's the crusade call from those pissed off because they're not in power, they're not calling the shots.

          The best people being candidates? Why would they subject themselves to that? In the end, like Jacinda Ardern, they say, "I don't need this shit."

          • woodart 1.4.2.1.1

            sad but true. most people who want power shouldnt be allowed near it.

            • Patricia Bremner 1.4.2.1.1.1

              surpriseNow days their comments are online before the elections, and they are seen as the liability they are in most cases.

    • Charlotte Rust 1.5

      How bloody hard is it to a. Check yourself before you hit ‘post’ on a stupid sexist joke on Facebook and b. As the National Party selection committee get the candidates to edit/vet their Facebook pages in case there is something inflammatory on it? We are dealing with luddites, ludicrous this far into the 21st century. Suits me for them to shoot themselves in the foot but honestly, I shake my head at the stupidity of these people.

  2. Sanctuary 2

    The Greens, missing in action again. I guess it is up to cis-male oppressors like Ray Grubb to do the heavy lifting for them again.

    The saga of the rank corruption – for that is what it is – around the water consents for the Lindis river should be a perfect rallying cry and battlefront for the green party, a perfect chance to belt entrenched privilege, crony politics and corruption whilst protecting the environment. Instead, the politics of factional squabbles and indentarian distraction dominate the party discourse.

    • arkie 2.1

      This Ray Grubb?

      Wellington lawyer Rachel Burt has been appointed to carry out the investigation into allegations of bullying by Grubb towards Fish and Game staff.

      Grubb declined to answer questions about the investigation. He told RNZ it was a good time to leave.

      "When you've done two years, you're 75 years of age and you've appointed a new chief executive, it's a great time for the new chief executive to create a relationship with a person who's going to be there for the long haul. It's a good time to make a change."

      When asked if his leaving had anything to do with the investigation, Grubb said he had no further comment and hung up.

      https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/480122/fish-and-game-chairperson-ray-grubb-resigns-amid-bullying-allegation-investigation

      The Greens have influenced the Government somewhat on these issues:

      The Green Party is today marking a significant step toward cleaner rivers and less climate pollution, with the wind down of taxpayer subsidies for industrial irrigation schemes, as outlined in the Confidence and Supply Agreement between the Green and Labour Parties.

      “Today’s announcement marks an important step in cleaning up our rivers and protecting our water and climate for generations to come,” said Green Party Co-leader James Shaw.

      “The Green Party’s Confidence and Supply Agreement with the Labour Party promised to wind down government support for irrigation. Today’s announcement delivers on that promise.

      https://www.greens.org.nz/end-irrigation-subsidies-win-taxpayers-and-environment-say-greens

      As Ray Grubb in the Newsroom article says:

      Let’s be honest, this is purely about economics, and private profit for a few has been put firmly ahead of the environment and the needs of future generations.

      Sounds very much like BAU under this Labour Government

      • Sanctuary 2.1.1

        How dare he, he is a white male bully and anyway it's all someone else fault.

        It is just too hard for us to listen to some whose age, gender and skin colour we object to and even harder to actually do anything ourselves, we will just bame everyone else.

        Whining Green politics at it's best.

        • arkie 2.1.1.1

          lol. I just thought it amusing that Mr Grubb did somewhat live up to your sarcastic characterisation.

          I read the article, I even quoted him, he has a point. Given that the issuers of irrigation consents are local councils, I'm not sure what you expect the Greens to do in this instance. The Labour party are the national Government, they don’t control the councils (as the three waters roll-out demonstrated) and they don't need the Greens to pass anything, if they wanted to solve this they could.

          • Sanctuary 2.1.1.1.1

            Very graceful of you if I misinterpreted your post.

            I think this is the sort of issue that the Greens ought to be all over. Go down there and theatrically stomp the riverbank, news crew in tow. issue an endless stream of Winston Peters style press releases accusing everyone of corruption. Wrap yourselves in the flag – champion the arid high country scenery as elemental to what it means to be a southerner and a New Zealander. Vow legislation to protect the Lindis river as a bottom line for any coalition deal. Warn farmers they won't be compenasted if they decide to proceed with their work and the Greens get to hold the balance of power. Provoke howels of unhinged privileged outrage from Grondswell whilst winning votes in urban centres.

            The Greens could be doing way, way more.

            • AB 2.1.1.1.1.1

              I imagine the Greens are somewhat conflicted by Fish & Game. F&G are strong supporters of water quality and therefore good potential allies, but introduced trout fail the environmental purity test. The latter is despite trout fishing being a relatively inexpensive pastime (if you choose entry-level gear) for ordinary people.

    • weka 2.2

      it's almost like if voters had given the Greens more MPs they'd have the time/energy/resources to pick up more issues like the Lindis. Can't have it both ways, either the left consider the environment to be part of left politics, or they don't. Own goal again lefties.

      • weka 2.2.1

        the other own goal is how many left voters don't vote in local body elections, in this case for the Otago Regional Council.

        • Graeme 2.2.1.1

          Left voters certainly vote in regional council elections, but there's not enough candidates to make a meaningful change to the organisation. There's one or two left candidates standing for multiple seats per constituency. The poor buggers end up being very lonely voices around the council table.

          The Left has to mount a much more organised approach to Local Government to counter the Right's entrenched power base.

          • weka 2.2.1.1.1

            we'd get more and better candidates if the people standing knew that they would get a good turnout. I couldn't find the ORC turnout but I'm guessing it's not higher than 50%.

            • Graeme 2.2.1.1.1.1

              Also get more and better candidates standing if they knew they weren't going to get rat fucked once they are sitting on Council, and had support of some like minded colleagues around the table. Why would anyone with left / conservation views want to put themselves through the grief of getting of sitting on something like ORC is beyond me and I have the utmost admiration for those that try, I'd be jumping off a bridge or cliff on the way home from the first meeting if I tried.

              • Ad

                Exactly. That applies not only to politicians like Marianne Hobbs, but also to staff.

                Who the hell would want to work there?

              • weka

                blows my mind that anyone progressive stands. Takes a particular skillset and strength.

                • Visubversa

                  I stood some years ago. I represented a particular demographic that up till then had not had representation as either a candidate or an MP. I was a List only candidate but as it was the early days of MMP and the party I stood for dis well in the electorate votes, it did not get far enough down the list for me to get in.

                  However, my demographic was represented in the subsequent Parliament so I was happy.

                  • weka

                    central government is a bit different because you have the support of a party. Imagine going through that on your own.

    • Ad 2.3

      The Lindis water take is massively litigated already and has resisted all exterior political influence.

      The ORC remains a toxic mess, and the Lindis in particular has already caused 2 chief executives to resign, and of course ex-Councillor Marianne Hobbs (previous Minister for the Environment) chucked out.

      ORC has had major Internal Affairs and Minister Parker scrutiny for a while, as well as several rounds of High Court litigation.

      The Greens are nowhere near this for good reason. They have neither Ministerial power nor political influence at the ORC.

  3. Anker 4
    • Apologies Weka.

    will do re checking the link.

  4. Anne 5

    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/parliament-protest-report-ipca-finds-police-tactics-justified-intelligence-response-and-safety-left-wanting/RVLHIPMAGVD3BCENLWNPUUNTU4/

    It would seem the majority opinion at the time… that by and large the police acted with professionalism throughout the protest/riot has been upheld. So much for the claims of police brutality by the protesters. Of the 2000plus formal complaints against the police it looks like only a handful have warranted further investigation.

    • Anne 5.1

      From the link provided @ 5

      Act Party leader David Seymour has called for “rogue police officers who used excessive force” at the Parliament protest last year to lose their jobs.

      Seymour said the riots reflected a “sad chapter in New Zealand history”.

      ”There were ugly acts on all sides of it which can’t be excused,” he said.

      Seymour said the IPCA report confirmed what people at the protest

      witnessed.

      Seymour said he thought police officers were put in that “impossible position” due to the Government’s “divisive vaccine policy” and inflammatory rhetoric from MPs.

      Seymour is the one who should be sacked. How any sane individual could even contemplate voting for the lying creep I cannot imagine.

      • Sanctuary 5.1.1

        The polarisation on the right across the Anglosphere – ACT is consolidating a radicalised rural and urban rump – is a sweet, sweet gift to centrist parties like Labour.

        As we saw yesterday with Luxon's announcements on farm and migrant policy the Nats are far more concerned with not losing control of the right than they are at winning the middle. National should, in all reality, be miles ahead of Labour at this point in time but their candidates and policies are so deeply unattractive that people simply can’t bring themselves to vote for them.

        The radicalisation of the right around culture war driven social reaction and neoliberal crony capitalism despite it making them unelectable is a phenomena deserving of more analysis from our ambiently right wing, horse race obsessed political journalists.

      • Peter 5.1.2

        Seymour, naturally, is playing to the gallery.

        If the Government had 'handled things right' (any way different than how it was handled and preferably by doing absolutely nothing), the kerfuffle in Wellington would not have happened. People would have been too pre-occupied over months burying their kin, being at the funerals of workmates and employees or attending their own funerals.)

      • Anker 5.1.3

        Don't agree with Seymour over this. Its up to the police to work out disciplinary action if required.

  5. tsmithfield 6

    The Ben Bell (Mayor of Gore) saga that has been making the news lately seems to have had the media framing Bell as young, immature, and out of his depth. And, who knows? That might actually be the case.

    However, I also wonder if it is the case of someone who is switched-on, with new ideas, shaking the tree of the establishment, and the establishment doesn't like it.

    Personally, even though I am in my early 60's, I have huge respect for a lot of young people I come across. They often have a lot of enthusiasm, modern thought, and a different way thinking about problems.

    So, I have no problems with someone Bell's age becoming Mayor. I just hope this all resolves itself for him OK, and that he will adjust his behaviour if he needs to.

    • Adrian 6.1

      Its about time mayors stood up to unelected CEOs who have corralled far too much power for their cabals. Outright lying and refusal to give documents and info to elected councillors has gone on for too long. My knowledge of this comes from doing some Secret Squirrel work for a councillor who had been royally bullshitted by the CEO and his underlings. I was surprised at their temerity.

    • Ad 6.2

      the secret to the Gore fiasco is in how the new Mayor's mother was paid out a massive payout days before the election.

      So now the current mayor has a conduit into all disaffected staff against the current CEO. A permanent mineshaft into a toxic waste dump to extract and refine and weaponise.

      Also it means Gore has a Mayor that can essentially rehearse every single Council meeting and every single applicable piece of legislation with his mother, before the meeting. Including the CEO Performance Committee.

      The CEO is going to get white-anted out of there pretty quick, unless McAnulty puts in a Commissioner.

      It is a really bad case of Oedipus Rex Redux: she is getting her revenge and it is being done as slowly as possible, through her son.

  6. Shanreagh 7

    An interesting article by Ruth Richardson with her support for ensuring the tax bands a e fair and don't drag people up every time wages etc go up. She recommends indexation as well.

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/opinion-analysis/300856794/ruth-richardson-the-taxation-problem-i-should-have-fixed-33-years-ago

    She starts

    'How have we got to the point where our lowest-waged workers are now paying tax rates that were set up to sock it to those on higher incomes?

    and goes on

    Now, the median earner nets close to $62,000, meaning a big chunk of their wages are taxed at this high-income rate and will soon fall into the even higher income bracket of 33%.

    This could have been avoided. Had Bill English insisted back in 2010 on legislating annual tax bracket updates in line with inflation, the median earner would now be paying $2019.50 less in tax than they do now.

    Of course, such a sensible measure would have left English then and Robertson now with a little less money to play around with at budget time.

    and ends, with good stuff in between

    It’s a glaring conflict of interest that frankly I should have addressed when we adopted our pioneering inflation-targeting regime 33 years ago.

    • In Vino 7.1

      Easy for her to say that now.

      I remember her 'saluting excellence' and being a supreme downtreader of the downtrodden at the time.

      • Shanreagh 7.1.1

        Contrary to what you think In Vino it is often very diffcult for someone in the public eye following a particular line, to revise these views, presumably after thought, and then go public with them. It takes courage.

        This was the point that struck me that here was someone who could have gone quietly away into history accepting the plaudits and whatever of being 'tough' and 'right for the times' National Finance Minister. Yet she does not.

        Roger Douglas was the one who operated in the same way with asset sales and hardship for those affected but to my knowledge he has never resiled from his actions.

        Hopefully her words will encourage this tax bracket creep, which is a scourge to workers to be looked at by this Labour Govt. Indexing to prevent this happening in the future would be good too.

        • SPC 7.1.1.1

          Indexation is the way to deprive the government of resources, it is right wing economic/political theory.

          And the largest tax cuts resulting from indexation goes to those on the highest tax bracket.

          She did nothing then because she got rid of gift duty and estate tax and needed the bracket creep on income tax – paid work – to afford it.

        • SPC 7.1.1.2

          When Roger Douglas began on his own path back in 1983 – he wrote a book. In it he said he preferred an asset tax to a CGT. The absence of either tax has had a deleterious effect on investment here ever since, end hence our productivity. Our relative decline to Oz in incomes/productivity stems from this.

  7. Shanreagh 8

    'LEST WE FORGET'.

    Lay a digital poppy:

    https://www.aucklandmuseum.com/war-memorial/online-cenotaph/search?utm_source=google&utm_medium=paidsem&utm_campaign=onlinecenotaphbau&gclid=CjwKCAjw__ihBhADEiwAXEazJqyiUAdONpTayGVWROqwDliwcJm54Kyz4DhjIOn3VZbNXapcheU6CBoCdDoQAvD_BwE

    Just done some for my lot, leaving three for my cousin. We had Uncles killed in WW1(France) & WW2 (Crete) . My poor grandmother had 5 of her 6 remaining boys overseas through WW2 until one was flown home in 1944 to be a NZ based Army instructor. Wonderful mother to them all sending individual care packages and letters (my father kept all of his that made it through to him)

  8. Chris 9

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/pou-tiaki/131799556/itll-kill-him-idea-services-wairoa-residents-still-not-home-after-cyclone-gabrielle-despite-no-damage-to-property

    Typical IHC. Don't give a flying fuck. Never have, never will. It's time the government ditched them and paid someone else to do the job properly. Pull the parasitic IHC fat cats in Wellington away from their sweet deal getting away with treating people with disabilities like shit.

    • Belladonna 9.1

      This is a really horrific situation for the people concerned.
      Their community is their lifeline – everyone in Wairoa knows Gavin, and watches out for him. His mental health and wellbeing are intimately connected with the place and the people.

      Telling outright lies (like "discussions about their options were under way with families and Whaikaha – Ministry of Disabled People" – when you know full well, there has been zero discussion with the families) – because it will be cheaper for them to be carted off to accommodation in another area – is an absolute disgrace.

      So much for the disabled person being the centre of the decision-making.

      I know that Gavin has really strong community supporters in Wairoa – and hope they and his family can continue to make this a case the papers want to cover – because nothing but bad publicity is going to move the government.

      • Shanreagh 9.1.1

        Yes Belladonna everyone knows Gavin. He is of my generation there. He needs to get back to friends, family and routine asap.

        And the excuses…what has changed by the Cyclone? His home is undamaged. If his care givers have been affected by the floods and need time to get their own affairs in order then I am sure that arrangements could be made to tap into the community support around Wairoa. I am sure that people would rally round as we/they have in the past. Or 'shock, horror' they could offer short term placements to short term care givers from other places around NZ, with accomodation until things can be resolved.

        Although the person with a disability is supposed to be the centre of decision making the further away from the community these organsation get the further away they seem to get from any networks around the person that could help.

        • Chris 9.1.1.1

          IHC will be looking at the post-cyclone situation as an opportunity to cut costs. I wouldn't be surprised if their plan was to never bring Gavin and others back to Wairoa if it means one less residence to maintain.

          • Shanreagh 9.1.1.1.1

            I might email IHC just to show them that a person in little old Wairoa actually has people who know him all round NZ and we are watching……..

            • Chris 9.1.1.1.1.1

              Yes, and make sure it goes to those faceless money-grubbing hypocritical pricks at their head office.

      • Chris 9.1.2

        It's the blatant hypocrisy of IHC's head office that fucks me off. A bunch of corporate fat cat right-wingers bleating on about inclusion and the importance of the UNCRPD when the reality is they just don't give a fuck.

  9. tsmithfield 10

    Breaking News: The Ukrainian counter offensive has started.

    Also, https://twitter.com/TheStudyofWar/status/1648869140361367554

    Hopefully this is the beginning of the end of this terrible conflict. Apparently the Russians are panicking and evacuating a lot of the expected targets of the offensive.

  10. observer 11

    Ex-National candidate Stephen Jack does not want to go quietly:

    https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/488345/national-s-ex-candidate-stephen-jack-accuses-media-of-woke-stupidity-and-character-assassination

    Note that he attacks the media, but it was his own party that turned on him. Luxon cut him loose, and Nat MPs have been queueing up to "assassinate" Jack (as he would put it). Obviously National had no option, they were never going to waste political capital defending a self-destructive fool.

    Blaming the media for your own behaviour and your own party's … so much for personal responsibility.

    • aj 11.1

      He'll keep digging of course but never explain the context he claims is misconstrued and false. Just a blowhard, and an indictment of the groundswell mentality.

      "These attacks have been careless, orchestrated, out of context and demonstrably inaccurate," Jack wrote.

      "Comprehension of satire has been traded for woke stupidity."

      Jack said the posts he had shared has been presented in a "misconstrued and false context" in a way he found to be "vile and offensive".

      • Peter 11.1.1

        "Vile and offensive"?

        I could direct him to some sites to see more in the style of what brought his demise. About Jacinda Ardern and her partner. Vile and offensive, demonstrably the work of the ignorant and limited. That said, credit to them for not just focussing on the former PM, they spread their wings. You should see what they wrote about Paul Pelosi.

      • Shanreagh 11.1.2

        Well he must be talking sense, he used the word 'woke'.

        /sarc

    • woodart 11.2

      nats trying to flick jack and his groundswill cronies off, groundswill are acting like a handbreak instead of a handup for the nats.

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