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Open mike 20/11/2019

Written By: - Date published: 7:00 am, November 20th, 2019 - 78 comments
Categories: open mike - Tags:

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78 comments on “Open mike 20/11/2019 ”

  1. mosa 1

    First debate of the U.K election campaign 8pm ( 9am our time )

    Only Johnson and Corbyn too take part.

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/election-debate-itv-live-stream-watch-tonight-johnson-corbyn-when-time-a9208656.html

  2. Blazer 2

    What a difference John Campbell makes on TVNZ Mornings.

    A huge upgrade.Had Carmel Sepuloni on this morning and asked the right questions.

    Carmel's not too dusty …either.

  3. The Swedish rape case dropped for the third time .

    https://www.nytimes.com/2019/11/19/world/europe/sweden-julian-assange.html

    :‘My assessment is that all investigative measures that can be taken have been taken. But… the evidence is not strong enough to file an indictment.’

    Read more: https://metro.co.uk/2019/11/19/julian-assange-rape-case-dropped-swedish-prosecutors-11181739/?ito=cbshare

    Twitter: https://twitter.com/MetroUK | Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/MetroUK/

    • francesca 3.1

      A fuller quote

      "Deputy Chief Prosecutor Eva-Marie Persson said the alleged victim’s complaint was credible. However, she added: ‘My assessment is that all investigative measures that can be taken have been taken. But… the evidence is not strong enough to file an indictment.’"

      As the NYT observes, this clears the way for the US extradition case.

      Thats the end of my commenting for the day, people to see, life to be lived ,wish Assange had the same freedom

      • Kevin 3.1.1

        So just now they realise the 'evidence' was not strong enough.

        How convenient.

        • McFlock 3.1.1.1

          Not enough for an indictment for rape, alone.

          Of course, there was still enough evidence to charge him for rape alongside the lesser sexual assault offences that he ran the clock out on.

          There's a certain poetry that his desire to avoid those charges put him in a worse situation than if he'd been found guilty. Bit of a Greek tragedy, there.

      • Sabine 3.1.2

        Well i guess it goes to serve as a warning to others.

        Don't consent to a thing you don't intend to do. Poeple might take offense. Or even better, don't fuck without a condom when you agreed to only fuck with a condom in a country that has 'consent' laws.

        For a supposedly intelligent man he has shown absolute fucking poor decision making when it comes to sex and sex partners.

        Question: would he be were he is now had he not decided that he can just fuck any which way he wants to and his partners pleasure, comfort, and consent be damned.

        in fact this reminds me of the lamentations of my neighbourgh who got a ticket for a parking in a non parking spot. Who is at fault? She for parking were she ought not too – ‘her parking’ as she calls it – even tho there is plenty of legal parking about. Or the ticket man who does what is his job to do and hands her a ticket – after he gives her a warning and asks her to move the car – which she refused to do on account of ‘her parking’.

        this guy would have had a completely different life had he decided to keep his willy in the trousers or maybe he could have shoved an aspirin between his knees. I think some call this personal responsibility.
        Especially if you know that someone is out to get him.

        • Brigid 3.1.2.1

          So Sabine you think this " ‘My assessment is that all investigative measures that can be taken have been taken. But… the evidence is not strong enough to file an indictment.’"

          Should say " ‘My assessment is that all investigative measures that can be taken have been taken. But… the evidence is not strong enough to file an indictment but someone in a little country at the bottom of the globe says he's guilty of rape under Swedish law. Similarities to a parking infringement is given as proof’"

          Have you advised the Swedish authorities?

          • Sabine 3.1.2.1.1

            Nah,

            My assesment is simple that had he engaged his brain rather then his penis he might not be in the predicament he is today.

    • Adrian Thornton 3.2

      Thanks for that update Francesca,that is good news I guess, however I get a little depressed whenever I hear news about Assange, it just reminds me how easily led and manipulated so many good people on the Left have become, and you can be sure that the same gullible ones who turned on Assange with such vitriol are the same ones who buy lock stock and barrel into the CIA/FBI fueled Russiagate rubbish.

  4. Sanctuary 4

    Worth watching. Promotional gold for NZ.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DUPo62ouU84

  5. Jimmy 5

    Great for tourism

  6. WeTheBleeple 6

    Solar breakthrough. Industrial heating processes once too hot for solar now an option. This is very good news. I've heard people argue if Tiwai was off the grid we'd have capacity for an electric fleet. Well it looks like we might (in future) have our cake and eat it too.

    https://edition.cnn.com/2019/11/19/business/heliogen-solar-energy-bill-gates/index.html

  7. Adrian Thornton 7

    Great to see at least one politician taking a moral stand on the right wing Bolivian coup'…seems our own lot are more interested in perceived optics than taking any boring old moral and/or ethical stand on international affairs…

    Bernie Sanders' Stance on Bolivia Matters

    https://www.truthdig.com/articles/bernie-sanders-stance-on-bolivia-matters/

  8. Sabine 8

    who would have thought that people might not want to pay a ransom note just because the shitty one in the shitty house feels the need to feel bigly. Or something.

    Oh well, I guess we will all in due time learn to appreciate our new over lords, same as the other overlords but with better food.

    https://news.yahoo.com/china-signs-defense-agreement-south-005403276.html

  9. Agora 9

    Leonardo da Vinci’s personal vineyard has been re-created

    https://www.economist.com/node/21774512?fsrc=rss%7Ceur

  10. Dukeofurl 10

    New draft electoral boundaries published

    https://vote.nz/map/index.html?id=6&modified=20191115033549

    New electorate in South Auckland – Flat Bush . But some others keep their name or similar and have big changes

    • Dukeofurl 10.1

      Usual gerrymandering from last maps. Taranaki is divided into 3 . Whanganui like Timaru is cut off from its traditional hinterland

      Central North Island electorates wander off to unnconnected areas

      Queenstown is cut off from rest of central Otago and remains mostly with Southland.

      New Flatbush includes Conifer Peninsula and Up to Mission Hieghts , yet Botany has part of Flatbush near Motorway and part of Howick on coast ,but excludes Whitford

      North Shore , I havent looked closely but Bennetts old electorate wanders from Back of Henderson across the Upper Harbour to Rosedale by the motorway…just weird.

  11. Peter 12

    Gerry Brownlee got up as a cunning stunt when Jacinda Ardern attempted to answer a question. He succeeded.

  12. McFlock 13

    All those dead rats and other animals on the West Coast? Tests for 1080 came back negative.

    So no idea on the cause. Next best theory is maybe casualties of floods and stormy weather.

  13. Exkiwiforces 14

    These two links are part of 4 part series host by the ABC's Alan Kohler who does the nightly finance report on the 7o'clock weekday news. It's quite interesting watch at what is happening here in Oz atm, with NZ's economy is very similar to Oz right now, you could drop the word Australia and insert New Zealand to get the same result.

    Atm the Australian economy isn't all beers and skittles and I won't be advising anyone to make the move over here right now unless you have a big bag full of money to fall back on if and when we do go under.

    Part 1: https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-11-18/what-is-happening-with-the-australian-economy/11715748

    Part 2: https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-11-19/how-australia-became-the-world-record-holder-for/11719624?section=business

  14. Gosman 15

    On the request of Drowsy M. Kram here is a discussion about the term "indigenous" and why it is Eurocentric.

    Here was the request:

    "My question ["Indigenous people" a ridiculous concept? How so?] preceded yours. You responded to my question with several questions of your own.

    Your response or (if you prefer) ‘answer’ seems to be that you think "indigenous people" is a ridiculous concept because it is "Eurocentric".

    Could you please lead me (briefly) through your line of reasoning (maybe on Open Mike), because I’m genuinely not following it.

    As Incognito points out (and I agree), not all eurocentric concepts are ridiculous, so what is it about this one (the origins of which can be traced to classical Greek culture a few centuries B.C.) that irks you so?"

    The answer to your question about how is the term both ridiculous and Eurocentic was in the questions I asked you (Which were "Who are the indigenous people of England, France, and Germany?").

    The fact is there is no pure indigenous people really in Europe and neither can there be. There have been too many people intermingling with each other and sharing both their cultures and their DNA with each other. The English are no more "Indigenous" to England than the Germans are to Germany. Even the Celtic people are not “indigenous” in the modern sense of the word to the places they live in now.

    That then leads on to how the term came to be used given it's irrelevance in the continent from which spawned the concept. The background to this is basically a people became Indigenous to an area at the moment the Europeans "discovered" them living in an area. Hence Black African Tribes are deemed indigenous to Southern Africa despite only migrating to the area around 1000 or so years ago (in many places less time than Anglo-Saxons have lived in England). This is why the term "Indigenous" is Eurocentric. It only makes sense through a European World view.

    • Drowsy M. Kram 15.1

      Gosman, thanks for taking this to OM and for setting out your reasoning so expansively. Personally I find the "Indigenous peoples" concept easy to understand and so quite useful, and wonder if you would find synonymous terms [First peoples, Aboriginal peoples or Native peoples] equally ridiculous.

      If I'm understanding your reasoning, you consider "indigenous people" to be a ridiculous concept because it is not relevant to "the continent from which spawned the concept."

      IMHO that's not good reason to label a concept 'ridiculous', so we’ll have to agree to disagree.

      • Gosman 15.1.1

        [My humble apologies! I was meant to reply but instead overwrote your comment. In my defense, it was a ridiculous comment but that doesn’t make it right – Incognito]

        • Drowsy M. Kram 15.1.1.1

          Your definition of 'ridiculous term/concept‘ appears to be one that "is not universal and has different applications depending on what part of the World you are in."

          We clearly have different world views; what seems 'ridiculous' to you just seems normal (in common use all over the world) and sensible to me. Still happy to agree to disagree.

          • In Vino 15.1.1.1.1

            I would suggest that Gosman has a nit-picking point, but is probably well aware of the below, and indulging in his usual diversionary, tergiversatory and provocative behaviour.

            Basically (explaining what I think Gosman already knows bloody well) the term 'indigenous' is now used to apply to populations afflicted by European colonialism over the last 600 years or so, when with superior technology, Europeans took over and colonised just about every country in the world.

            At school, I learned that the French word for 'Native' (the word normally used until late 1960s) was 'Indigène', so at first I saw 'indigenous' as simply a synonym. But no – I have since understood that it is used for any people conquered by European colonialists. ('Native' is now so tainted that it is almost gone from our vocabulary, and we instead use 'indigenous' for plants and animals, where 'native' used to be a perfectly good, non-pejorative term.)

            Gosman, silly nit-picking is not a big achievement.

            • solkta 15.1.1.1.1.1

              Yes, 'native' is one of those words like 'mankind', only used by the old and ignorant.

              • In Vino

                Thank God I am old!

              • Anne

                And what pray tell me is wrong with the word "mankind"? It is usually used when the topic under discussion refers to a specific species called mankind. Are you suggesting we use humankind? Too much of a mouthful thank-you.

                And yeah… I'm old too. 🙂

                • solkta

                  What is wrong with 'mankind' is exactly the same thing that is wrong with 'native'. They were used in a time when people of colour were considered inferior to white people and women were considered inferior to men. As social relations change language changes as a reflection.

                  You must have a very small mouth to be overcome by two more letters.

                  • In Vino

                    Personally, I prefer 'personkind' – a warmer term than that clinical 'human' one. In fact, 'human' should be changed to 'huperson', leading us to the beautifully multisyllabic 'hupersonkind'.

                    How blessedly correct we would then be!

                    • Anne

                      Its quite funny how we all have different reactions to nomenclature.

                      I have never thought of ‘mankind’ in the same way as solkta. It was used in an historical or scientific sense in my day. Our teachers and superiors talked of mankind… learning to make tools for hunting and receptacles for storing food etc. It was never seen as an expression of gender inequality so I will continue to use it when it is the appropriate term.

                • Paaparakauta

                  What's wrong with ‘womankind’ ? If you wish to avoid gender ‘human’ does the job nicely.

                  [You are using too many different aliases and e-mail addresses. This raises suspicions with Moderators on this site. Please explain yourself – Incognito]

            • Drowsy M. Kram 15.1.1.1.1.2

              Thanks In Vino, that makes sense. Would "First peoples" be a 'safer' term, i.e. less/not pejorative and typically less disputable given recent advances in molecular anthropology?

              • In Vino

                First from when, as Gosman would ask? Maybe 'Previous people' or, if that sounds like zombies, 'Prior people' adds an aura of importance… but I doubt if any term will be safe for long in our very woke era.

                • McFlock

                  Actually, I'm beginning to think that maybe Gossies' approach is itself "Eurocentric". Looking at some of the historically-disputed areas around China, we see the same relationaships between the invading and occupying culture, and the pre-existing culture of that area.

                  Despite the earnest wishes of the EDL, Europe isn't under threat of being occupied any time soon. So to use a term in the vein of "indiginous" is farcical, because the term is a distinction between two or more ethnic populations in the same land, and the extant one that was there earliest is usually the one with least power in that land.

                • Drowsy M. Kram

                  'First' as in the first people to arrive/settle in a given region/island, including any descendants through to present day. Could be a can of worms, but worthwhile at least trying to develop acceptable terms (for each region/island) IMHO.

                  https://bccampus.ca/2019/10/11/first-nations/

                  I (still) don't consider "indigenous people" to be a ridiculous concept – 'difficult/complex' possibly; 'ridiculous' no.

                  • Gosman

                    Why is it worth while? It is only worthwhile if you think there is some benefity to tie a particular group to a geographic area and bestow upon them special rights based on that link.

              • McFlock

                In North America especially the generally preferred expression seems to be "first nations". Really rubs in the "we had developed societies you guys tried to obliterate" factor.

                • Drowsy M. Kram

                  Could Gossie's 'reasoning' be: Once assimilation is complete, concepts such as indigenous peoples, first peoples/nations, aboriginal peoples or native peoples (and any 'special' rights/privileges deriving from distinctive cultural practices/beliefs) will be irrelevant? Oh, what a 'perfect' world.

                  • Gosman

                    You keep avoiding my question about who are the indigenous people in Europe. There is an argument to be made that there are some in the far north (The Sámi) however even in this case the DNA evidence suggests that there may well have been a pre-existing culture and people that mixed with later peoples. Certainly the Celtic, Germanic and Slavic people of Northern, Western, Central, and Eastern Europe were not "indigenous" to the areas that they now call home. Maybe the Greeks have a claim to be indigenous to the Eastern Mediterranean. It is a push though given there is evidence that the Greeks today are not the same as the Greeks of the Minoan era.

                    • Drowsy M. Kram

                      Gosman, I don't know enough about the topic of indigenous people in Europe to answer your question (so can only cut and paste), but the accounts you're providing suggest that it's difficult to tell.

                      "In Europe, present-day indigenous populations as recognized by the UN are relatively few, mainly confined to its north and far east. Notable minority indigenous populations in Europe include the Basque people of northern Spain and southern France, the Sami people of northern Fennoscandia, the Nenets, Samoyedic and Komi peoples of northern Russia, and the Circassians of southern Russia and the North Caucasus."
                      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Indigenous_peoples_of_Europe

                      You and I live in NZ – do you think that the concept of people that are indigenous to NZ (or Australia) is "ridiculous"?

                      To reiterate, I don’t find the concept of ‘indigenous people‘ ridiculous – rather I find it useful. No doubt there are other concepts that you consider ridiculous and I consider useful – there may even be a few concepts that you consider useful and I consider ridiculous. smiley

                    • Gosman

                      This is a facinating discussion. I would like to continue it on today's OM.

            • Gosman 15.1.1.1.1.3

              Thank you for making the point. The term "indigenous" doesn't mean what many people think it means (which is the original people of a particular area). It means instead people who were occupying a particular area when they Europeans first came in to contact with them.

  15. Eco maori 16

    Kia Ora Breakfast.

    Birds are fascinating creatures they play a big positive role in our environment.

    Its great to see the Koala being treated with care and kindness.

    Ka kite Ano

  16. Eco maori 17

    This is the technology we need to grow to turn our plastic waste into a valuable commodity. This system gives us the opportunity to keep plastics in a closed loop system. Use recycled we need closed loop system for everything we use.

    Australian recycling technology aims to handle all plastics

    Australian scientists have developed a technology they say could make all plastic recyclable, as the country grapples with how to deal with its waste crisis.

    The patented technology was created by Dr Len Humphreys and Sydney University Professor Thomas Maschmeyer, who say it could process plastics that cannot currently be recycled.

    Australians throw out 3.5 million tonnes of plastic each year, but currently only about 10 percent of it is recycled.

    The rest is either burned, buried or shipped overseas

    Dr Humphreys said the Cat-HTR technology he and his co-founder patented was different from existing plastic-to-oil technologies like pyrolysis, which is a process that involves heating materials at a very high temperature.

    Unlike traditional physical recycling, it does not require plastics to be separated according to type and colour, and can recycle anything from milk cartons to wetsuits and even wood by-products.

    It also means plastic products can be recycled again and again

    Ka kite Ano link below.

    https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/world/403699/australian-recycling-technology-aims-to-handle-all-plastics

  17. Eco maori 18

    Sugar should be banned to our fuel tanks our tamariki consume way to much of the stuff.

    Later on in their lives once their bodys system have been wrecked by sugar the real problems start diabetes heart problems that's the reality of high sugar consumption.

    Sweet spot: Norwegians cut sugar intake to lowest level in 44 years

    Norway has had a sugar tax since 1922 and more recently has created separate taxes for confectionary and sugary drinks

    The directorate’s annual report on the Norwegian diet said that average annual consumption of sugar had plummeted from 43kg to 24kg per person between 2000 and 2018 – including a 27% reduction in the past decade – to a level lower than that recorded in 1975.

    Norway has had a generalised added sugar tax – introduced at the time as a means of raising revenue for the state, rather than reducing the consumption of what critics call the “pure, white and deadly” substance – since as early as 1922

    Ka kite Ano link below.

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/nov/20/norwegians-cut-sugar-intake-to-lowest-level-in-44-years

    • Sabine 18.1

      nah, mate, sugar is doing nothing wrong.

      What should be banned is selling sugary drinks cheaper then milk or water.

      And what should be done is getting parents to understand that if they make the children, and if they birth the children then they have to actually raise them, feed them, clothes them.

      Non of that is the fault of sugar.

      If we continue to demand stuff be banned because grown ass adults don't give a shit aobut their children we will have no more food/drink etc left and the world be littered with starving children.

  18. Eco maori 19

    Kia Ora 1 News.

    I think that's a great idea compulsorily reduncy income insurance some.

    Yes report it to the police if you get scammed so they know the scam and worn others about it.

    Ka kite Ano

  19. Eco maori 20

    Kia Ora Te Ao Maori News.

    Gambling is a big problem for some tangata whenua I have seen the effects of people putting all their money in those machines.

    Awsome that Whakatane Iwi is getting there Taonga back from Auckland University. I believe in the Maori version of old taonga wairua.

    There are some great programs on Maori TV they give me a sore face.

    Ka kite Ano

  20. Eco maori 21

    Kia Ora Breakfast.

    Our economy is based on housing the old saying As Safe As Whare.

    We have stopped the single use of plastic bags that should be just the start on our journey to a closed loop system.

    Its good to see A huge multi nation company held accountable for their Actions.

    Ka kite Ano

  21. Eco maori 22

    Some Eco Maori Music For The Minute.

  22. Eco maori 23

    Kia Ora 1 News.

    I was told about the mass mice problems.

    Orange dust storm in Australia.

    Im not surprised about the amount of CCT cameras I have seen them going up all over the place.

    Ka kite Ano

  23. Eco maori 24

    Kia Ora Te Ao Maori News.

    Its great to see 20 indigenous tangata meeting in Aotearoa.

    Ka kite Ano

  24. Eco maori 25

    Some Eco Maori Music For The Minute.

  25. Eco maori 26

    Kia Ora 1 News.

    Its was a good day in Kaikoura.

    We must pay respect to our Tipuna.

    It looks like Steven vist to Aotearoa is a good thing.

    Luck there was not more causalitys with that train crash I'm very careful on the roads now days

    Those old costumes bring back the past lol.

    Ka kite Ano

  26. Eco maori 27

    Kia Ora Te Ao Maori News.

    Condolences to Michael Wi whanau for their loss.

    That's awesome a Wai testing kit that is only $50.

    Ka kite Ano

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