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Open mike 20/01/2014

Written By: - Date published: 7:06 am, January 20th, 2014 - 172 comments
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Step right up to the mike …

172 comments on “Open mike 20/01/2014 ”

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  1. phillip ure 1
    20 January 2014 at 7:45 am

    whoar..!..the far-right has topped party/pm polls in britain..

    http://whoar.co.nz/2014/far-right-prty-beats-tories-and-lib-dems-in-british-poll-and-far-right-leader-beats-cameronclegg-as-favoured-for-prime-minister-ed-whoar-eh-and-good-news-for-kim-dotcom-and-should-h/

    (excerpt..)

    ..and for the likes of kim dotcom..

    ..this will be very good news..

    ..the electorate is ripe for something/anything different..

    (and funny story..!..the greens in the past would have been in pole-position to grab that opportunity..

    ..but..the compromises/moves to the centre the greens have taken..and their failures to be a strong different-voice..

    ..with their (criminal) inaction on/around the medical marijuana bill they (supposedly) supported/fought for..

    ..being perhaps the most damaging to that ‘outlaw/change’-meme..

    ..(the greens tried out an innovative new campaigning method with that medical-marijuana bill..

    ..it was ‘the embarrassed-silence’ mode of campaigning..

    ..and it wasn’t a success..on any level..

    ..that and their earlier skirt-lifting/winking/flirting with the idea of supporting a key/tory govt..

    ..pretty much put the seal on the greens becoming ‘suited-up’..)

    (cont..)

    phillip ure..

    • Arfamo 1.1
      20 January 2014 at 9:04 am

      WTF?

      • phillip ure 1.1.1
        20 January 2014 at 9:09 am

        what exactly are you having problems getting yr head around..there..

        ..arfamo..?

        ..need some help..?

        phillip ure..

        • Arfamo 1.1.1.1
          20 January 2014 at 9:16 am

          If the help involves any more fucken dots and effort to try and work out what the hell you are raving on about exactly, no thanks Phil. Appreciate the offer though.

          • phillip ure 1.1.1.1.1
            20 January 2014 at 9:27 am

            @..arfamo..

            ..you do know that dot-o-phobia is covered by a.c.c…eh..?

            (virgo..?..they tend to dot-o-phobia…i’ve noticed..)

            phillip ure..

            • Arfamo 1.1.1.1.1.1
              20 January 2014 at 9:33 am

              (virgo..?..they tend to dot-o-phobia…i’ve noticed..)

              Do they? Sounds right. Heaps of scientific support for astrological personality classifications. Astrologers are amongst our best thinkers.

              • phillip ure …
                20 January 2014 at 9:37 am

                vigos can’t take a joke..(the evidence is building..)

                ..they also have issues with lateral-thinking..eh…?

                ..does any of that sound familiar..?

                ..phillip ure..

                • Arfamo …
                  20 January 2014 at 9:42 am

                  Well, no, phil, I’m not virgo. I prefer my chinese astrological classification. If it helps, that one describes me as the type of person who “likes to make love in a laundry chute, just to see what it feels like”. Anyway, I’ve had enough dots and blank space for the day. I’m off to do something useful.

                  ..Have …

                  ..an…

                  ice…

                  …day

                  • weka …
                    20 January 2014 at 9:51 am

                    Good for you Arfamo.

                    • phillip ure …
                      20 January 2014 at 10:07 am

                      @..weka..

                      .are you cheering on arfamos’ desire to bonk in a laundry-chute..there..

                      ..weka..?

                      phillip ure..

                    • Arfamo …
                      20 January 2014 at 10:10 am

                      Phil, it’s never going to happen. My girlfriend is emphatically not assisting in my ongoing search for a chute of an appropriate size and design. My last 10 advertisements for another girlfriend who might have produced a blank.

                    • phillip ure …
                      20 January 2014 at 10:14 am

                      @ arfamo..

                      ..are you/they known as ‘chute-ists’..?

                      ..and have you faced any (laundry-based) discrimination..?

                      ..since coming out..?

                      ..phillip ure..

                    • Arfamo …
                      20 January 2014 at 10:16 am

                      All I have gained to date is 5 trespass notices. This is why I don’t like astrology. I am considering entering politics in France, Italy or the US, where this kind of activity is likely to get me elected.

                    • phillip ure …
                      20 January 2014 at 10:21 am

                      the auckland mayoralty position is coming up soon..?

                      ..there is a pattern there..

                      ..has the object-of-desire manifestation of the incumbants’ mid-life-crisis ever been asked about their relationship..

                      ..and/in the context of.. ‘laundry-chutes’..?

                      phillip ure..

                    • Arfamo …
                      20 January 2014 at 10:22 am

                      Hmm. Hotels have laundry chutes. Good tip. Thanks Phil.

                    • phillip ure …
                      20 January 2014 at 10:34 am

                      are there any protocols in/around your (ahem..!..)..interest..?

                      ..there…arfmo..

                      ..do you prefer an empty or full basket @ the bottom of the chute..?

                      ..does ‘odour’ have a part to play in that chute-attraction/pre-chuting-suitability evaluation..?

                      ..do you like to visit whiteware-showrooms..?

                      ..and stroke the appliances..

                      ..and dream of chute-ing..?

                      ..and do your interests spread/stray into any other part /aspect..

                      ..of the laundry-experience..?

                      phillip ure..

                    • Arfamo …
                      20 January 2014 at 10:37 am

                      I’m sorry Phil, your questions indicate a level of interest that is getting prurient. I’m away. Try not to overdo the dots.

                    • phillip ure …
                      20 January 2014 at 10:42 am

                      it’s alright..i know how to handle my dots..

                      ..and also i’m on a form of apostrophe-methadone..

                      ..it’s called the dash-program..

                      – so i am learning to substitute – eh – ?

                      ..you should have seen me back in the day..!

                      ..whoar…!!…..

                      ..mainlining dots..all day..and all of the night..

                      ..phillip ure..

                  • greywarbler …
                    20 January 2014 at 12:22 pm

                    Very amusing Phil U and Arfamo. Good repartee.
                    Reminds me of Jewel of the Nile discussion refereed by the Jewel who was Avner Eisenberg – looking at him on google seems very funny

                    • phillip ure …
                      20 January 2014 at 12:34 pm

                      chrs gw..

                      ..and good on old weka for kicking it off eh..?

                      ..and a bit of a touch of the law of unintended-consequences for that quarrelsome/destructive/hectoring native-bird..

                      ..(of the very very pale-green/carnivorous variety..)

                      ..eh..?

                      (what’s that sound..?

                      ..is that what a ‘grinding’ weka-beak sounds like..?..)

                      ..and weka is/must be an early short-lister –

                      – for todays’ foil-of-the-day-award..eh..?

                      phillip ure..

                    • phillip ure …
                      20 January 2014 at 2:11 pm

                      ..”..what..?..”

                      the very very pale-green/carnivorous native-bird..

                      ..howled into the void..

                      ..(there was no answer..there usually isn’t..)

                      ..phillip ure..

      • Te Reo Putake 1.1.2
        20 January 2014 at 9:17 am

        Phil is extrapolating from a headline in a UK sunday newspaper. The actual result on voting intention is:

        Labour leads on 35 per cent, the Conservatives are 30 per cent, UKIP have19 per cent and the Lib Dems remain stalled on 8 per cent. Given the UK’s FPP voting system, the support for UKIP is illusory; they won’t actually win 19% of the seats. They may, however, cause the Tories to lose quite a few.

        The upcoming European elections, which are on a proportional basis, may be more fruitful for the swivel eyed loons of UKIP. Ironic, given their hatred of Johnny Foreigner.

        • Arfamo 1.1.2.1
          20 January 2014 at 9:20 am

          Righto. Thanks for that. I think I’ll have some breakfast.

        • phillip ure 1.1.2.2
          20 January 2014 at 9:32 am

          @..trp..

          ..i wd add that the sunday newspaper is the independent..

          ..hardly a rightwing-rag..

          ..and i think the unlying thesis of my piece..stands..

          ..namely how ripe for change the voters both there and here are..

          ..and how that ‘protest’ eu-vote..is their only outlet..

          ..whereas here.?.

          ..we have mmp..eh..?

          ..aren’t we lucky bunnies..?

          ..we can have our revolutions @ the ballot-box..

          ..we can throw the bastards out..

          ..and install whoever we so wish..

          ..(let us pause once again to thank those who made that happen for us..eh..?..

          ..rod donalds’ finest hour…eh..?..

          ..vale..!..rod..)

          ..phillip ure..

  2. Not a PS Staffer 2
    20 January 2014 at 7:47 am

    “Paying out KiwiSaver cash under the serious financial hardship provision benefits only the bankrupt’s creditors rather than the bankrupt themselves,.”

    Stephen Joyce’s department (Business Innovation and Employment) are undermining the KIWISAVER scheme.
    The ministry’s view is that a bankrupt’s KiwiSaver money should be available to pay creditors.
    That will lead to money-lenders extending debt at high rates on the strength of a KIWISAVER statement.
    That will screw the poorest and benefit usurious gangsters.

    See story in the NZ Herald.

    • RedBaronCV 2.2
      20 January 2014 at 9:25 am

      I’d wondered about this and looking at the article there does need to be some clearer rules. Firstly, most kiwisaver is the normal modest contributions from work. But it is possible to set up a personal kiwisaver scheme and if the dollars in it are large enough then it can be quite worthwhile (main cost are the audit requirements) so they can be set up and business people could and are hiding large dollops of assets in them.
      Second problem is the ability to get at it at 65. Banks if they have a security that they can readily access leave loans outstanding, accruing interest and then take control of the estate or in this case could go for the kiwisaver at age 65. Some other pension funds require a court order to pay out.
      And then there are issues around welfare benefits and care payments for the elderly etc, etc. Didn’t matter until now when kiwisaver dollars are getting up.

    • Draco T Bastard 2.3
      20 January 2014 at 9:45 am

      Just the rich looking for more ways to take everyone else’s money off them.

      • RedBaronCV 2.3.1
        20 January 2014 at 10:02 am

        So right DTB – so how sacred do we make kiwisaver funds – protected up to say $300,000 + CPI

      • Tracey 2.3.2
        20 January 2014 at 10:16 am

        doesnt a banrupt owe some hard working folk some money for goods or services rendered?

        I know alot of hard working small business owners and sole traders who have missed out because of a bankruptcy or liquidation declaration.

        • RedBaronCV 2.3.2.1
          20 January 2014 at 11:07 am

          Yep, and frankly they should be at the top of the queue along with/just after employees. That would stop banks and the like overlending. BTW liquidation is for companies so no kiwisave rimpact

        • Draco T Bastard 2.3.2.2
          20 January 2014 at 12:06 pm

          Yeah, I know a few of them as well but they’re not going to get anything out of this as they happen to be unsecured creditors. To get it so that the small business owners and contractors get paid requires a law change to make them secured and primary creditors. All this seems to do is give the banks access to someones retirement fund if they go bankrupt.

  3. One Anonymous Knucklehead 3
    20 January 2014 at 8:49 am

    What normal people do when the government attacks the right to protest.

    Riot.

  4. phillip ure 4
    20 January 2014 at 9:08 am

    len brown on nine to noon..now..

    phillip ure..

    • Paul 4.1
      20 January 2014 at 1:33 pm

      Was it worth it?

      • phillip ure 4.1.1
        20 January 2014 at 1:51 pm

        @ paul..

        ..nah..!..

        ..but that could be my bad..

        ..i have found that whenever brown starts spouting that aspirational-bullshit he slathers/trowels over everything..

        ..(with that rictus-grin firmly in place..)

        ..that my eyes glaze over..my ears shut down..

        ..and i seem to slip thru a tear in the space-time-continuum..

        ..and i can’t remember a single fucken thing he said..

        ..eh..?

        ..i only came back..when a ditty heralded his exit..

        ..blessed-relief..!..that was…

        ..i dunno where i go..at moments like that…

        ..but i do know it is somewhere where brown is not..

        ..(i think maybe i am allergic to aspirational-bullshit-slathering..eh..?..

        ..and have physical-reactions to assaults like those from brown..

        ..i mean..imagine being trapped with him in one of those ‘sacred-to-maori-rooms @ the town hall..?

        ..history has showen/proven..

        ..that anything could happen..

        ..with ‘down-trou’-brown..

        ..whoar..!..eh..?..)

        ..as i said..’my bad’..

        ..phillip ure..

        • Tim 4.1.1.1
          20 January 2014 at 2:15 pm

          “my eyes glaze over..my ears shut down.”
          No matter – you didn’t miss a thing
          (i.e. despite his being challenged by the best, better, bestest pretender to the title of “ethical, incisive, public service broadcaster extraordinaire, regular and work-life balanced regular Gal or Guy”)
          … oops – no wait – there’s a Mora to come – I’ll hold off just for now in aaaaantici……..pay.shun….

  6. Lantahnide 6
    20 January 2014 at 9:28 am

    Ianmac posted this in Open Mike yesterday but it seems to have been overlooked. I think it’s important so re-posting:

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/the-press/news/9626111/ACC-payments-manipulated

    Basically it says that when National gets into power, they screw down on ACC and make it change it’s policies so that fewer people get the cover they are legislated to receive.

    • dv 6.1
      20 January 2014 at 9:37 am

      AND as an example.

      http://www.stuff.co.nz/the-press/news/9626960/No-surgery-for-ailing-woman

      DAILY STRUGGLE: Rewa Eves has been in constant pain since she fell during the magnitude 5.9 aftershock in June 2011, but has been denied surgery by ACC and the Canterbury District Health Board will not accept her on to the surgical waiting list.

      ACC, however, has refused to pay for the surgery she needs to fix her shoulders.

      “They told me it’s a pre-existing condition . . . and apparently I left it too long after the fall to apply, but I didn’t know whether I was coming or going.”

      • weka 6.1.1
        20 January 2014 at 10:10 am

        ” A letter from the board’s orthopaedic department said although it was “clear [Eves] will benefit from surgery”, the board was unable to provide it.

        It said public hospitals could only accept patients on to the waiting list if surgery could be provided within six months”

        WTF??!? When did that happen? Is that just Canterbury DHB or are they all doing that?

        • RedBaronCV 6.1.1.1
          20 January 2014 at 10:25 am

          I think they all are. That way you always have a six months waiting list and no priority below that. and no one can measure the unmet needs.

          • weka 6.1.1.1.1
            20 January 2014 at 10:34 am

            Yeah, but I think they still get reassessed as the the person at teh top of the list drops off when they get their surgery. ie they’re still in the system (in effect on the waiting list without being prioritised).

          • millsy 6.1.1.1.2
            20 January 2014 at 10:48 am

            So what makes it possible for a patient to be operated on in 6 months?

            All this crap came about when Shipley was in charge of our health system. She actually abolished waiting lists and instead implemented a ‘booking system’.

            National came very close to destroying our public health system. The falling down hospitals at the edge of every provincial town in the country attest to that.

            • weka 6.1.1.1.2.1
              20 January 2014 at 11:03 am

              The article above is a good example of just how stupid and callous this govt is. Refuse people surgery on ACC, put them on the second tier waiting list at the local DHB, and get the person’s GP to monitor while in limbo. Let the person deteriorate, and prevent them from being a (productive) part of society.

              What’s the collective cost of all that?

              • McFlock …
                20 January 2014 at 12:11 pm

                makes me wonder how many other earthquake victims are still waiting for treatment.

                The trouble with NZ health system is that we’re still good at keeping people alive, but we’re shit at that gap between “barely alive” and “well”. People either sit in limbo waiting (but not “waiting”) for treatment, or progressively degrade in condition until they need the machine that goes “bing” (at which point we give them excellent, but much more expensive, treatment).

                The cause is simply that the system has been degraded and shuffled about for decades, and the medics and administrators naturally prioritise treatment for greatest need as resources are depleted.

                • Draco T Bastard …
                  20 January 2014 at 2:15 pm

                  It’s not the resources that are depleted but the money as government after government cuts taxes on the rich.

                  • McFlock …
                    20 January 2014 at 2:46 pm

                    I meant from the operational (lol) perspective, rather than the strategic perspective. But feel free to invent a disagreement where there was none.

                    • Draco T Bastard …
                      20 January 2014 at 2:55 pm

                      I was just pointing out why “resources” were being depleted from the hospital. It’s easy enough to fix but it would cost money (more hospitals, doctors, etc) thus would require higher taxes and would possibly drive up wages as unemployment decreases.

        • Rosie 6.1.1.2
          20 January 2014 at 11:15 am

          “WTF??!? When did that happen? Is that just Canterbury DHB or are they all doing that?”

          Well, CCDHB has certainly cut waiting lists to six months. From this article:

          “Dollars before health: Faulkner”

          http://fairfaxmedia.newspaperdirect.com/epaper/viewer.aspx

          “……….waiting lists had apparently been cut after the Minister told the board that nobody was to wait for more than six months.
          GP’s were referring people who never made it on to the waiting list because their case was not sufficiently urgent, she said.
          “This is going to have a real blowout because we have a lot of very sick people who are not getting on to the waiting list” “.

          So, yeah, Go Tony Ryall.

    • xavier 6.2
      20 January 2014 at 10:11 am

      ACC was ruthless under Labour too. Its strategy was to exit as many long term clients as possible, which included the use of private contractors to do so. A lot of this filtered through to the media in the early 2000s. It didn’t affect the broader middle class the way the Nats’ cuts have though. It’s probably why Labour don’t make too much noise about ACC now.

      • Tracey 6.2.1
        20 January 2014 at 10:18 am

        +1

      • millsy 6.2.2
        20 January 2014 at 10:21 am

        Doesnt anyone worry about what exactly happens to those that have been ‘exited’?

        • RedBaronCV 6.2.2.1
          20 January 2014 at 11:01 am

          Not down at ACC. They are on the welfare now. 2013 annual report boasts that 2740 long term claimmants returned to “independence” whatever that means.

          And I’m not so sure that ACC aren’t gaming the system. It would need more time to work out but given that the company levies (work) are going down but the earner levies (you & me in the workforce) are not to the same extent, then it’s possible that:

          -treatment costs are being shoveled disproportionately onto the earners account to benefit company levies and reduce the government dollop for non earner injuries

          – The release of liabilty for earnings compensation (as the boomers approach 65 the need for earnings compensation shuts down which will reduce liabilities horrendously) is being handed to employers despite both employers and employees funding it originally.

          Employees fund earnings for non work accidents but the the earnings compensation is split roughly 50:50 between work and non work accidents so treatment costs and reduction in earnings liability should be shared in the same ratio.

          • millsy 6.2.2.1.1
            22 January 2014 at 9:50 pm

            If they are on welfare now, their living standard would have taken a tumble, Both ACC and the government are very heartless in doing this.

            I hope someone is held to account.

    • Tracey 6.3
      20 January 2014 at 10:18 am

      read that on sunday. Am a little surprised that some seem surprised.

      this is the type of “skill” that Wayne referred to in another thread as being at the heart of this govt’s economic management.

    • millsy 6.4
      20 January 2014 at 10:27 am

      Meanwhile, buried deep in the news reports, was a report that ACC and the Hawkes Bay Reigonal Council has entered into a pretty dodgy looking deal whereby ACC paid the HBRC a lump sum in return for ACC getting the income from their leasehold property for the next 30-odd years.

      Kinda like if I owned a rental property, and rented it out for $300 a week, someone comes along and offers me $50000 in return for keeping the rent I get from it for the next 30 years.

      Its effectively a loan, but not called that on the balance sheets.

      I tried to find the link to put up, but it has disspeared.

      • RedBaronCV 6.4.1
        20 January 2014 at 11:21 am

        It’s securitising a stream of income Millsy and has been around for a while. Imagine they assigned the property leases. Can be used to turn revenue streams into capital blocks of money.

        Main problem here is that the HBRC has grabbed future council income to spend today (Ruitaniwha Dam?) and reduced choices for future elected bodies – and any problems with the details.
        Does the council have to make up any shortfall in the rents, who maintains the properties, what rates of increases did they build into the rents, etc, etc and who benefits from these details.

        • alwyn 6.4.1.1
          20 January 2014 at 1:55 pm

          Oh dear. I read this and suddenly get reminded of one of the main causes of the GFC.
          Sell a collection of repayment obligations in return for a large chunk of money now. Gee that’s securitising a stream of income isn’t it?
          There it was mortgages, here it is property leases. Tell me it aint so.
          Yes I know that this is stretching things a bit, but still.

          Incidentally the lease is only on the bare land, not the house so maintenance doesn’t come into it. I believe that these leases have 21 year terms after which revaluation takes place. I wouldn’t guarantee that though.

    • Rosie 6.5
      20 January 2014 at 10:42 am

      Yes, I saw Ianmac’s yesterday comment re the stuffed ACC article and was not remotely surprised by the policy direction influenced by the board “plants”.

      Having accessed ACC services under Labour in 2007 and under National in 2011 – 2014 I can say I couldn’t have received more differing levels of service. (Xavier has a point at 6.2 though about Labour’s role, I was one of the lucky ones however at that point). Personal experience aside, the Nat Govt has demonstrated fairly consistently it’s contempt for the aims of ACC via their policy changes. The increasing number of people denied surgery is an example of the worst aspects of the changes to ACC.

      My reply, (part of which I posted on OM last week) from Ian Lees Galloway regarding reinstating full funding for ACC physio visits was a bit luke warm and didn’t fill me with confidence for Labour’s plans to restore ACC to it’s former levels of service. Yet to hear back from Kevin Hague.

    • Michael 6.6
      20 January 2014 at 11:01 am

      Then privatise provision – you get to choose the level of entitlements and because you have a contract they can’t be backed out of.

      • RedBaronCV 6.6.1
        20 January 2014 at 11:03 am

        Tell that to AFFCO

      • Lantahnide 6.6.2
        20 January 2014 at 11:20 am

        Yeah, ’cause insurance companies never back out of their obligations or contracts. There’s no track record of that happening overseas or in New Zealand in any insurance industry whatsoever.

        Give me a break.

        • greywarbler 6.6.2.1
          20 January 2014 at 11:37 am

          Is your pseudo spelt right L?

          • Lanthanide 6.6.2.1.1
            20 January 2014 at 1:42 pm

            No, ta. Replying from work and the cookies are picking up the typo I made first day back last Monday.

            • greywarbler 6.6.2.1.1.1
              20 January 2014 at 8:08 pm

              Lanthanide
              Did you get discombobulated coming back from holiday? Won’t be long to Easter.

              • Lanthanide …
                20 January 2014 at 8:16 pm

                I frequently typo my name as Lantahnide when typing quickly. It’s only because The Standard has cookies (or my browser remembers, whatever) that you don’t see it more often.

  7. Draco T Bastard 7
    20 January 2014 at 9:35 am

    We Would Have Eliminated Poverty Entirely by Now if Inequality Hadn’t Skyrocketed

    Jared Bernstein at The New York Times and then Elise Gould at EPI produced counterfactual poverty estimates showing that, had inequality not shot up in the last forty years, poverty as we measure it in the United States would have been eliminated

    Basically, if we hadn’t have followed the neo-liberal fallacy and rewarded the rich for being rich we would have eliminated poverty. Instead, we’ve been increasing it.

    • Lantahnide 7.1
      20 January 2014 at 9:52 am

      Which more or less dovetails with predictions from the 50’s and 60’s that in the future people wouldn’t need to work and there’d be a lot of leisure time.

      Instead, the leisure time has accrued to a tiny elite while the rest get crumbs and wage slavery.

    • freedom 7.2
      20 January 2014 at 10:54 am

      most recent example being: imagine if the US Bailout Funds had actually gone where they could have done some good and were used to pay off people’s morgtages, instead of being repeatedly gifted to the criminals who leveraged off them.

      Of course doing so would mean central banks having to admit the entire ponzi scheme is not helping the global economy, but enslaving it like a millstone mule, grinding out a profit for them and leaving the rest of us to scrabble for the broken chaff.

  8. Disraeli Gladstone 8
    20 January 2014 at 9:52 am

    I don’t know if it’s been said here or not but George Osborne (the Most Cutting-Tory of Tories) has decided he wants to see a large above-inflation rise in the minimum wage. It’s currently at around £6.30 ($12.60 roughly) and he wants it raised by 70p ($1.40) to £7 ($14). So we have an austerity-focussed Tory Chancellor in England backing a sizable rise in the minimum wage believing businesses can take the hit and it would be good for the economy.

    It’ll be interesting if Key and English sticks to tiny, in line with inflation rises.

    • vto 8.1
      20 January 2014 at 9:54 am

      “It’ll be interesting if Key and English sticks to tiny, in line with inflation rises.”

      You mean like the pay rises they get themselves …. ?

    • Tracey 8.2
      20 January 2014 at 10:20 am

      If National thinks Labour has any traction with living wage rhetoric, they will increase minimum wage in May Budget BUT it wont be called a “lolly scramble” by the press or national’s supporters. They will puff out their chest reassured they still have a caring side.

      • Disraeli Gladstone 8.2.1
        20 January 2014 at 11:15 am

        The argument is already in place if they look to Britain. Osborne is essentially saying “we can do this because our management of the economy and the deficit was so good.”

        I can see the same argument being used by English. I still don’t think they will go to $15 though. Maybe $14.50 or something. Compromise. It’s the government’s modus operandi.

        • bad12 8.2.1.1
          20 January 2014 at 11:55 am

          It seems to be ‘fashionable’ emanating from Europe the desire to lift the living standards of the ‘have nots’ even among the hardened Tory’s, perhaps the rioting that at times has gone largely unreported,(Hamburg in Germany), and that that has been covered here by the media,(Greece etc), has shown the Tory’s the ‘writing on the wall’ if the acceleration in inequality continues on it’s current trajectory,

          Listening yesterday to RadionNZ National replaying an earlier interview Chris Laidlaw with ex Prime Minister Jim Bolger that i had missed had me laughing like a loon,

          Once past the waffle and excuses surrounding the actions of His time as Prime Minister Bolger talked of what has been occurring in today’s New Zealand and global economy,

          What Bolger said could have been direct quotes from what we see CV and Draco commenting here at the Standard every day and i was left with the strong suspicion that old Jim might be a secret lurker and looker at what goes on here,

          On inequality Bolger was adament that should such continue in this country it posed the ‘greatest danger’ to the economic well-being of NZ and in a world wide sense described Neo-Liberalism particularly in Britain as a ‘money go round attended by ‘ticket clippers’ every step of the way’,there was a lot more in such a vein and for a laugh it might be worth while going to the RadioNZ National web-site for a listen,(but you have to wade through 20 minutes of Bolger waffle to hear Jim expound socialism),

          Lolz, listening to him brought to mind that old adage that a lot of ‘Lefty’s move to the right as they age’ and i thought then that perhaps the same is true of those on the right as well but in reverse…

    • alwyn 8.3
      20 January 2014 at 2:09 pm

      At this moment seven pounds converts, at the mid-rate for the currency, to $13.92. Thus his desired figure is only $0.17 above the current New Zealand, which is due for revision in February and will be paid from April 1, when it woud likely go to at least $14.00. Seems like the UK is trying to catch up with New Zealand doesn’t it.
      Does anyone have official, rather than anecdotal, numbers for the Cost of Living in Britain compared to New Zealand?

      • Bill 8.3.1
        20 January 2014 at 3:53 pm

        Average cost for renting a house in England and Wales is around 800 UK pounds per month. ($1600 per month or $400 per week according to your conversion above).

        There was an article in ‘the guardian’ a week or so back comparing prices across Europe that also (from memory) included average wage comparisons.

        Anyway. Average wage rates in the UK are higher than here. Problem with NZ is that far too many workers bumble along just above that min wage level.

  9. Penny Bright 9
    20 January 2014 at 10:38 am

    FYI

    Media Alert from Graham McCready:
    _____________________________________________________________________

    Graham Mc Cready, Prosecutor for New Zealand Private Prosecution Service will attend the Auckland District Court Public Office Today at 4:00PM to file:

    Memorandum;

    Application to make Len Brown case a test case for gifts/bribes and corrupt practices in local body politics;

    Application under Section 106 of the Crimes Act 1961 to the Attorney General for NZPPS to Prosecute Len Brown under Section 105(1); or in the alternative an application for the District Court to refer that issue to the High Court to seek an order for the case to continue using the precedent in the Tito Phillip Field case;

    Written Submissions; affidavits and exhibits as Required under the Criminal Procedures Act sufficient for the Court to issue a summons to Len Brown using the precedent in the John Banks case;

    An urgent application for the Court to set a date for a hearing where all these matters be dealt with in open court before a District Court judge.

    There will be no other charges filed against any other named defendant until all these issues are disposed off.

    The filed documents will be distributed to media after filing.

    Respectfully
    Graham Mc Cready
    Agent for NZPPS Ltd
    Prosecutor
    ……………..
    …………………

    Note to media:
    I will be working on these documents all day
    Please refrain from phoning so I can get the job done.
    ____________________________________________________________________

    • bad12 9.1
      20 January 2014 at 12:49 pm

      Good luck with that, hopefully the absurd decision to go after Brown’s wife will now be seen as a step too far,

      To use the Taito Phillip Field case as a precedent you will have to provide the Court with a little thing called ‘Evidence’, the Field case only succeeded because those who gifted the labour to Field gave evidence that both they and Field knew exactly why they were providing Him with such free labour,

      Good luck with putting someone on the stand from any of the relevant Hotel’s or organizations who will give such evidence, without it you have no precedent and thus little chance of having this prosecution proceed,

      There can be no precedent applied to Brown from the Banks case, both are entirely different matters of law requiring entirely different charges to be laid, in not declaring the ‘gifts’ Brown appears to be subject to no ‘legal remedy’ other than being ‘sanctioned’ by His Council for not declaring the gifts,

      i will tho watch this little side-show develop with interest…

      • karol 9.1.1
        20 January 2014 at 1:17 pm

        bad – you nailed it! McCready drops suit against Browns. Although McCready claims his dropping of the suit is due to procedural problems.

        Retired Wellington accountant Graham McCready has dropped procedures to file legal charges against Auckland Mayor Len Brown’s wife, Shan Inglis.
        [..]
        Mr McCready says he found out yesterday that there’s a procedural issue of applying to the Attorney General for permission to prosecute anyone for corruption.

        “If you want to know why I didn’t know before I will just tell you that I stuffed up, and that’s a very honest situation.”

        • bad12 9.1.1.1
          20 January 2014 at 1:53 pm

          Thanks Karol, my description of the charge Graham Mac,(with the help of Penny Bright),intended to lay against Brown’s wife as absurd is the ‘mild version’ of what i think of such an action and i think i made my anger pretty much clear in a comment about the matter a couple of days ago,

          As a public figure Brown has to be answerable for His actions and it’s fair enough for Graham Mac to attempt to make Him answerable befor the Courts,(although i do not believe He has a show in hell of being able to satisfy even the Attorney General that He has sufficient evidence for such a charge to proceed against Brown unless He and Penny have ‘the smoking gun’ so far kept secret),

          My opinion, expressed the other day, about the proposed charges against Brown’s wife seems to have come about solely because Graham Mac belatedly realized that most of the hotel accommodation was booked by Shan Inglis,(which may or may not lead the Courts to conclude that it wasn’t Len Brown who accepted such ‘gifts’ that were given,(the hotels will simply point out that for VIP’s this is normal practice),

          Hopefully Browns wife will now be left alone to get on with Her life as she sees fit…

          • Will@Welly 9.1.1.1.1
            20 January 2014 at 2:11 pm

            The thing about these hotel up-grades, they only have a nominal charge. There isn’t anything tangible in them. You’re still paying for the bed, the room and the servicing. They are fixed costs – an up-grade costs the hotel nothing if that room will not be sold on the night, and that tends to be the main reason why people are up-graded.
            The main thing Len did wrong is not declaring the freebie’s.
            But listening to L.B. on Nat. Radio with Kathryn Ryan this morning, he stills seems unable to differentiate between the public and private person. While he “was on the job” he was the Mayor, most of his liaisons were initiated while he was the Mayor, but then took place after hours.

            • bad12 9.1.1.1.1.1
              20 January 2014 at 7:19 pm

              I entirely agree with you on the matter of room upgrades, such upgrades in my opinion are only worth what Brown and His wife were prepared to pay for a night’s stay in whatever hotel(s) gave the upgrade…

      • Paul 9.1.2
        20 January 2014 at 1:34 pm

        The Herald seems obsessed by the story.

  10. Will@Welly 10
    20 January 2014 at 10:42 am

    English is overseas at some forum, looking to see how other countries are tackling the growing gulf between those who have and those who don’t. (Was on RNZ 10am news) Interesting, he is there for ideas – apparently our Government doesn’t have any – surprise, surprise!!
    So like the green paper on “child abuse” – first a meeting, then a round of ideas, then further meetings, time for a breath and a cup of tea, more consultation, finally consult the stake holders, and then present the grand plan. Time elapsed – maybe 2 – 3 years. As for most of those in poverty, well, your guess is as good as mine, but in reality, their prognosis is not good. A bit like Paula Bennett’s guide for dealing with child abuse and child poverty – zip it sweetie.

    • Rosie 10.1
      20 January 2014 at 11:25 am

      Re the green paper on child abuse. Wise observation as per usual from you Will. And English? Ha, well perhaps he may be listening to George Osbourne? (Comment above from Disraeli Gladstone)

  11. dv 11
    20 January 2014 at 10:51 am

    In todays Herald

    Apart from the first, the rest would seem to fit PIKE RIVER too.

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11189193

    • She operated Easy Rider knowing that a master holding a skippers certificate was required and that the appropriate certificate was not held

    • She caused or permitted the vessel to be operated in a manner which caused unnecessary danger or risk to the persons on board

    • As the director of AZ1 Enterprises Ltd, she acquiesced or participated in the failure of the company to ensure that no action or inaction of any employee while at work harmed any other person on board Easy Rider

    • As the director, she acquiesced or participated in the failure of the company to ensure the safety of its employees while at work on board the Easy Rider

    • As the director, she acquiesced or participated in the failure of the company to ensure that no contractor or subcontractor was harmed while doing work on board.

  12. tricledrown 12
    20 January 2014 at 10:55 am

    Phil ure
    Trying some Dot Com.edy

  13. tricledrown 13
    20 January 2014 at 11:06 am

    Dv the bigger the crime the less the time.
    Penny Bright Graham McCready
    Why aren’t you taking the Directors of Pike River to court
    Me thinks you are just in it for your own ego stroking and political gain?.

    • Penny Bright 13.1
      20 January 2014 at 10:29 pm

      Whatever ‘tricledrown’ …..

      Like to point a stick at anything useful you have done lately to help the public or the public interest?

      When you’re ready …………………………

      Penny Bright

      • tricledrown 13.1.1
        20 January 2014 at 11:29 pm

        Penny for your information i have been involved in various community initiatives for most of my life the list is long fostering children,helping street kids turn their lives around, political party involvement from beating the streets to high level organization, sports teams organizing coaching playing, environmental clean ups tree planting etc etc.I belong to a community service organization we do a lot to foster young into volunteering building stronger communities most of us in this organization are fed up with the snails pace of govt action so we are working from the bottom up,
        29 people died at pike river loose morals len hasn’t killed any one i don’t disagree with him facing the music.
        but those board members and managers at pike river should be in gaol for a long time.
        I just criticised you to get your attention.
        This corporate corruption is far worse than any political scandal
        this is corporate manslaughter .
        you seem to be a person along with mr mcCready who could put some real criminals on trial.
        Sorry it really pisses me off that no one is being held accountable for this horrific crime
        can you help.

        • bad12 13.1.1.1
          21 January 2014 at 7:42 am

          In all fairness to Penny Bright and Graham Mac, the families of the Pike River 29 have been reported as asking that ‘others’ do not mount private prosecutions against the hierarchy of the Pike River Mining Company as an attempt to prosecute that fails may prevent the families themselves from pursuing their own prosecutions in the future…

  14. Morrissey 14
    20 January 2014 at 12:15 pm

    Now they’re claiming Key has an “unusual degree of integrity”
    Mike Williams continues to act as Hooton’s patsy
    From the Left and From the Right, Radio NZ National, Monday 20 January 2014

    I tuned in to this morning’s programme late, about 11:25, just in time to hear this….

    MATTHEW HOOTON: John Key does operate with a degree of integrity that is unusual in politics…..

    Hooton went on to burnish what is obviously a major new National Party talking point—that the prime minister is a man of integrity—making sure that he repeated that canard as many times as he could in sixty seconds. All up and down the length of the country, listeners snorted in derision, shouted in outrage, ground their teeth and shook their heads in disbelief—but in the Radio NZ studios, there was silence. There was not even the hint of a suggestion that Hooton had just committed yet another gross violation of truth. There was not a word of demur. Paul Holmes’s former high school classmate and pal Mike Williams, billed as being “From the Left”, remained silent, as did the host, Kathryn Ryan.

    Admittedly I heard only the last few minutes, so perhaps I’m being harsh on Ryan and Williams. Perhaps Ryan actually said something intelligent earlier in the programme, and perhaps Mike Williams had the courage to contradict one of those sly, cynical, loaded comments that are Hooton’s speciality.

    But by the sounds of the dismal three minutes or so that I heard, it sounds like it’s business as usual at National Party Radio.

    • Draco T Bastard 14.1
      20 January 2014 at 1:12 pm

      MATTHEW HOOTON: John Key does operate with a degree of integrity that is unusual in politics…..

      Well, I suppose lying and getting away with it shows something about his character – usually not integrity though.

      • bad12 14.1.1
        20 January 2014 at 1:58 pm

        The Hooten quote should have continued with the words,”but in the realm of the sleazy backstreet used car salesman is par for the course”…

    • Paul 14.2
      20 January 2014 at 1:36 pm

      How does Hooton have a clue what integrity looks like?
      Bomber had it spot on about Pagani and Williams – they are Fox Democrats.

      • David H 14.2.1
        20 January 2014 at 4:16 pm

        “How does Hooton have a clue what integrity looks like?”

        He thinks it’s something that’s stuck to the bottom of his shoe. To be gotten rid of at the first opportunity, he keeps it there along with Truthfulness and Honesty.

    • David H 14.3
      20 January 2014 at 4:12 pm

      And Hootens horseshit spreads across the land

      [lprent: Get the name right – it is hooton. ]

    • David H 14.4
      20 January 2014 at 4:24 pm

      You couldn’t be too harsh on Williams if you tried. He is getting more and more like the proverbial wet bus ticket every time he deigns to open his mouth, if only to change feet! If onlt he would get permanent Laryngitis!

      • tricledrown 14.4.1
        20 January 2014 at 11:41 pm

        DH did you listen to the show listen( listen carefully on live stream) Williams and Ryan were silent because hootons comments were unbelievable.
        both Williams and Ryan took hooton to task on every other issue.
        Including Hootons comment that Key is a shoe in 2014 election pointing out key is running out of coalition partners.
        Morissey only heard one comment out of context.
        Just have a listen DH then come back to me if you think i was wrong.

        • David H 14.4.1.1
          21 January 2014 at 11:11 am

          I have listened to it again I even put on Headphones so there was no distraction, and I stand by what I said. And silence because they were what? Appalled ? They didn’t say that. In fact they said nothing. And if something is that bad to render them speechless, even after having time to think about it, still can’t come up with anything to say. Then they both deserve to be changed. And I thought Ryan is supposed to be good at this interviewing stuff.

  15. freedom 15
    20 January 2014 at 1:38 pm

    Governments the world over are tacitly admitting the war on pot has been lost and the sooner education regulation and decriminalization enter the fray the better for all. No better proof for this than Obama’s recent comments. That said, we still seem to be facing some odd decisions. Despite this and quasi-valid decisions like it, progress is being made but any real step-change won’t occur until every last patent has been sewn up by the pharmacrats and the light turns green, so to speak.

    Despite decades of stating there was no such thing, the US patent office have begun to approve patents for medicinal use of cannabinoids. Big pharma has an ever-expanding web of patent applications being duly processed. I read somewhere it is estimated that China alone has over three thousand medical-use patents under consideration. Atop this health horizon are the mountain ranges of tax dollars hemp regulation would generate, not to mention the piles of Police dollars marijuana reform would free up.

    Those three elements, health, tax and policing, prove how the breadth of the approaching transformation is not able to be quantified into a quick-fix soundbite. It will require a herculean effort in stage-managed incrementalism, fortunately the MSM are well trained for this heavy lifting.

    The few Hemp products available and the timid steps towards legal reformation being explored, are simple manoeuvres designed to tie down social engineering options necessary for the big international roll out. After a century of propaganda it is no easy ask to return balance to the discussion but once the patents are signed and the greenlight is given, just watch how quickly the message changes. It took almost twenty years to cement petrochemicals as the saviour of the world and turn the world against hemp, which at the time was one of the biggest Industries on the planet. Admittedly that was a different time. Flipping the message would be a lot faster and for a few, just like last time, it will again be very very profitable. Despite the social blowback from decades of lies being overcome, the lollies will be dispersed, the rules will be changed, the people will forget and the game as always will continue. The difference this time is the product they are pushing might actually help the planet.

    • gsays 15.1
      20 January 2014 at 3:19 pm

      i recently had a conversation with a cop from the far north.
      we eventually got on to the subject of pot.
      he was of the opinion that it would never be deriminalized/legalized, in fact there have been murmurs of it being changed from class c drug to class b.
      the reasoning he gave was that the thc levels had increased from 3-5%, in the ’70s to a staggering 33%!
      obviously this is all anecdotal, but an interesting insight into how the powers that be are thinking.

      • freedom 15.1.1
        20 January 2014 at 4:39 pm

        As you say, an anecdotal insight, but it is a sad reality expressive of the current thinking.

        It is however, a bluntly innaccurate insight, designed to excite the puritans and build fear in the ignorant. It is as absurd as saying all roses are red.

      • Colonial Viper 15.1.2
        20 January 2014 at 4:46 pm

        This Drug Foundation article remarks on the supposedly increasing strength of THC levels

        http://www.drugfoundation.org.nz/mythbusters/cannabis-potency

        • Molly 15.1.2.1
          20 January 2014 at 10:17 pm

          Thanks for that CV. Have heard that meme a few times now, – good to have a reference back to this article.

        • gsays 15.1.2.2
          20 January 2014 at 11:30 pm

          hey thanx c.v., its good to be able to point out what the “experts” have discovered.

          another thing, the drug foundation seems to have taken a slighltly different tack over recent years away from the knee jerk “all drugs are bad, …mmkay..” (thank you south park) to a more reasoned and considered tone.

    • David H 15.2
      20 January 2014 at 4:40 pm

      Looks like they trying to stop ‘every joe blow’ growing thier own strong stuff and only getting weak shit (and probably full of ‘Keep it burning chemicals’ from them.) Good luck to them trying their ‘It’s all ours’ Patent bullshit down here.

  16. Draco T Bastard 16
    20 January 2014 at 1:48 pm

    Metals in your smartphone have no substitutes

    Graedel’s analysis of substitutes involved ploughing through scientific literature and interviewing product designers and material scientists. The results are a sobering reminder of how critical some metals are. On seeing the data, Andrea Sella of University College London said, “This is an important wake up call.”

    None of the 62 elements have substitutes that perform equally well. And some of those have no substitutes at all (or if there are substitutes, then they are inadequate). They include: rhenium, rhodium, lanthanum, europium, dysprosium, thulium, ytterbium, yttrium, strontium and thallium.

    Only to those of us which didn’t realise that the world was limited to begin with – which would include economists:

    Economists have long assumed that a shortage of anything will promptly lead to the development of suitable substitutes, an attitude fostered in part because there have been successful substitutions in the past, such as the cobalt and rhenium examples.

    But, then, the average, run of the mill economist wouldn’t know what an economy was if they tripped over one.

    • weka 16.1
      20 January 2014 at 3:22 pm

      And smartphones will be the least of our worries.

      Interesting point about the consumption of some bulk metals having peaked. Anyone know what that means?

      • lprent 16.1.1
        20 January 2014 at 3:53 pm

        Use of alternatives

        Worldwide recession possibly combined with a reduction in the rate of increase in world population and/or high consumption populations?

        Take your pick.

      • Draco T Bastard 16.1.2
        20 January 2014 at 3:58 pm

        That part seems to be saying that some advanced countries no longer have a growing demand for metals such as iron and aluminium. These types of metals have a massive abundance in the Earth’s Crust and are also easily recyclable. It’s implied that, therefore, these metals use is sustainable but we need to look to how those metals are produced. Iron, for example, uses a lot of coke in it’s production and so needs a supply of coal available to be produced and coal is likely to peak and then decline putting a limit on availability of steel.

      • Colonial Viper 16.1.3
        20 January 2014 at 6:20 pm

        Interesting point about the consumption of some bulk metals having peaked. Anyone know what that means?

        China uses half of the world’s cement, ostensibly to build infrastructure and new developments. But also things like ghost cities.

        If that bubble is about to collapse, there will be a major reduction in the use of things like structural and reinforcing steel.

        • Lanthanide 16.1.3.1
          20 January 2014 at 8:18 pm

          I really wonder about those ghost cities.

          Are they a massive power-play by the Chinese government? They know that fuel prices are likely to skyrocket in the next 10 years, so figure “hey, lets build new cities while the crude flows?”.

    • tricledrown 16.2
      21 January 2014 at 12:57 am

      graphene very strong carbon one molecule thick able to conduct electricity and a good way to lock up carbon the rate of change in technology is gathering pace.
      recycling of circuitry will become more economically viable!

      • Draco T Bastard 16.2.1
        21 January 2014 at 1:37 am

        But does it work the same way semi-conductors do?

        As the article points out, the bulk metals such as aluminium and iron availability isn’t really a problem but once you get into the rare earths and stuff then we have a problem.

        That said, this could be interesting as far as computers and cell phones go.

        • Colonial Viper 16.2.1.1
          21 January 2014 at 6:22 am

          What’s the issue? Just go back to vacuum tubes and electromechanics. Civil society will do just fine, even if the iGadget crowd is despondent.

  17. Tim 17
    20 January 2014 at 1:52 pm

    Alienated as I am at the moment from various goings on at RNZ, but can someone confirm for me whether or not the participants (i.e. mathew Hooten, and “I’m Inclined to Agree with you”), regulated, or should I say “regularised” by the ‘regular-work-life-balanced-Regular-Gal’ (coming in a nearby second from the world’s most (and ‘nicest’) Regular Guy – can you tell me whether they’re ekshly getting some sort of FEE for this bilge?

    “Great Having you on board guys” of course, and Rinnie holds you in nice-gal-esteem, and she’ll keep ACROSS it all – y’all – of course.
    But… do they get some sort of remuneration for all that first-of-the-year Nine-ton-Noon “from the right, and from the right” spin, opinion and spiel?

    kathryn – please take another diving trip

    • weka 17.1
      20 January 2014 at 3:21 pm

      Translation: do Hooton and Williams etc get paid for being on Nine to Noon?

      Don’t know, but have wondered myself. I assume yes.

      • Tim 17.1.1
        20 January 2014 at 4:35 pm

        Ah …. you goet my point then weka – a hugely wafflised question asking a simple question

  18. Draco T Bastard 18
    20 January 2014 at 2:12 pm

    Anyone else confused?
    A screenshot of Family First’s home page.

    • QoT 18.1
      20 January 2014 at 3:42 pm

      The trick is not to look at the words, Draco. It’s all perfectly reasonable if you understand that their core tenet is “scare the middle/lower-middle class into conservatism by implying that the State is trying to control your life while letting degenerates roam free.”

    • karol 18.2
      20 January 2014 at 3:57 pm

      It took me a while to see the point of the screenshot – the print of “my mummy’s a criminal” bit – I couldn’t read the small print on my laptop – had to go to NZ First’s website. It’s a vid against the removal of the protection for child bashers in the section 59 Bill.

  19. amirite 19
    20 January 2014 at 2:21 pm

    The ‘booming’ economy does not feel like it to our regions:

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/opinion/news/article.cfm?c_id=466&objectid=11188961

  20. Will@Welly 20
    20 January 2014 at 2:22 pm

    With apologizes to all my gay friends.
    In England, as reported in todays NZ Herald, some twit, a Councillor, is reported as saying the flooding there is to blame on – “gay marriage.”
    Colin Craig? Cameroon Brewer? anyone like that spring to mind in New Zealand. ffs, what century are we living in? do you laugh or cry? absolutely absurd.

  21. fatonia 21
    20 January 2014 at 2:31 pm

    The dirty politics behind Key and McCully’s betrayal of Tonga:
    http://readingthemaps.blogspot.co.nz/2014/01/letting-down-family.html

    • weka 21.1
      20 January 2014 at 3:30 pm

      That is shameful of NZ.

      Thanks for the link, was good to understand that part of Pacific cultures a bit better (fatonia).

  22. tricledrown 22
    20 January 2014 at 2:50 pm

    Morrissy you missed the rest of the show listen to it on livestreaming
    Mike Williams gave his best account in a long time.
    Hearsay Hoodwinker was put in his place by Ryan and Williams countered every argument hooten tried to put foward its electon year williams is not agreeing anymore no more free ride smart move by Williams .
    Last year williams let hooten have a free ride this year is different.
    Listen to live stream of the whole show.
    Even on the Peters issue hooten was rabbiting on about Keys integrety about no deal With Peters Ryan hauled him up on that saying hooten has got that wrong.
    Doesn’t Hooten remember Keys change of heart.
    Hollow hooter is trying to stop national potential voters supporting Peters with his dog whistle but Ryan was having none of it.

    • Morrissey 22.1
      20 January 2014 at 7:16 pm

      Thanks for that encouraging information, tricledrown. I did say that maybe they had performed better than they did on the few minutes I heard, and it appears that they did.

      That’s great news.

    • bad12 22.2
      20 January 2014 at 7:30 pm

      i only half listened today but heard Williams with a bit of bite at least attempt to put Hooten in His place…

  23. Te Reo Putake 23
    20 January 2014 at 3:55 pm

    Big shake Central NI

  24. risildowgtn 24
    20 January 2014 at 5:15 pm

    Wow that shake at 3.50 was a disturbing one. one of my sheds is now lop sided. Am based just out of Levin . not much frazzles me but that has. Am still shaking a tad

    • Rosie 24.1
      20 January 2014 at 5:47 pm

      Sorry about your shed and your nerves risildowgtn. I hope you soon begin to feel more settled and that you’re not getting the aftershocks up there. All quiet here but I think there are aftershocks going on around Manawatu. Hopefully they are not making their presence felt in Horowhenua there.

      Take it easy.

  25. Paul 25
    20 January 2014 at 6:29 pm

    From a long 2008 Herald article all about Key’s early life unearthed by travellerev.
    Ask yourself as you read this paragraph….does this ring true with someone unable to remember which he stood on during the 81 tour?

    Sounds like porkies, Mr Key.

    Key himself credits those early debates as sparking his interest in politics. He remembers being attracted by the fiery political arguments of the 1970s and 1980s. “They were quite intense debates – Kawerau and Kinleith and people striking over the Cook Strait ferries – all of those kind of things,” he says. “It was certainly a period of time where politics were prominent and I was fascinated by it.”

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/john-key-the-unauthorised-biography/news/article.cfm?c_id=1502247&objectid=10522310

  26. Tracey 26
    20 January 2014 at 6:32 pm

    Mr Brewer said the protesters did not justify security being there.

    “I don’t believe ratepayers should be funding security guards to surround the Mayor on such occasions. A few hecklers and peaceful demonstrators exercising their democratic right is no justification,” he said.

    Havent heard him object to the pry ministers over use of guards? I bet they cost more than 20 bucks an hour.

    • Paul 26.1
      20 January 2014 at 6:47 pm

      “Labour has accused Key of using the Diplomatic Protection Squad as an entourage, after its costs blew out by $800,000 in 2009/10.

      Part of the $800,000 blow-out was $30,000 for squad members to accompany Key during his summer holiday to Hawaii at the end of 2009.”

      http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/4968881/Clark-turned-down-diplomatic-protection-emails-show

      • karol 26.1.1
        20 January 2014 at 6:56 pm

        3 News tonight, in Tory propaganda mode: have a go at Kim Dotcom for copyright infringEments by some Mega users: Brewer having a go at Brown, and Tory spin on the need to make more Auckland land, on the fringes of the city, for home buyers (spinning for property sepculators)….then talking up Canterbury housing upsurge.

        • Anne 26.1.1.1
          20 January 2014 at 7:21 pm

          Yes it was appalling stuff alright. No proper investigations. Just innuendo and snide inferences. I guess the truth is too boring. The decision to raise security detail around a VIP – be they prime minister or mayor of the supercity – is taken by the person/body charged with providing the security and not the VIP. The only exception is John Key who likes lots of DPS fellas around him cos it makes him feel so important.

          The reality is: a senior council official would have made the decision to up security detail around Len Brown. I understand it was also partly due to the fact a cabinet minister was also present.

        • Bearded Git 26.1.1.2
          20 January 2014 at 9:41 pm

          Terrible stuff on TV3 news Karol I agree. Rather than drawing the bleedin’ obvious conclusion from the fact (stated) that Akl house prices are over 8 times average earnings, that is that:

          1. There is a speculative bubble happening in housing in Akl. 2. A CGT would help to fix this.

          Instead the so-called expert they had on went on about freeing up more land.

          When will they learn this is NOT the problem or the solution-rather it is the tax system we have that favours housing rather than productive investment. Even people like Gareth Morgan are now shouting this from the rooftops.

      • David H 26.1.2
        20 January 2014 at 7:33 pm

        And Key just wanted them to look important (Like a pale an Obama clone)

    • bad12 26.2
      20 January 2014 at 7:39 pm

      Yes Brewer a minor fly in a very large bucket of ointment is being given oxygen far above the amount He has either earned or deserves, if not for Lens indiscretions Brewer would be the unheard of nobody that he actually is,

      That’ll learn ya Len…

  27. joe90 27
    20 January 2014 at 7:18 pm

    Erik Ravelo – Los Untocables

  28. Xtasy 28
    20 January 2014 at 9:49 pm

    DOCTORS and their professional organisation members seem to be reading blogs and online forums (e.g. Sciblogs, ACC Forum, even The Standard, The Daily Blog, Kiwiblog and so forth)!

    They have been getting worried about stuff that has been found out, that has been raised concerns about, and they have now apparently seen a need to take actions and defend the profession, their members, and policies that organisations like the Royal Australasian College of Physicians (RACP) and their Australasian Faculty of Occupational and Environmental Medicine have started promoting since 2010. This includes their policy statement on “The Health Benefits of Work”!

    It was all phased in and developed with the help of Professor Mansel Aylward, Dame Carol Black and pushed for with the help of Dr David Beaumont (President Elect of AFOEM, formerly working for ATOS!), same as Principal Health Advisor Dr David Bratt, MSD.

    After launching their ideologically coloured policy and consensus statements, and follow-up ones, they have now got worried about their claims. Hence they now saw a need to specify what “work” is supposed to be “good for health”, and they have come up with a statement on “What is good work?”!?

    See the details from their further statement on this from Oct. 2013:
    http://www.racp.org.nz/page/racp-faculties/australasian-faculty-of-occupational-and-environmental-medicine/realising-the-health-benefits-of-work/latest-news/

    Download the ridiculously explained, bizarre publication they released on that: http://www.racp.org.nz/download.cfm?downloadfile=E2F6A860-D1D5-E958-6D9D641F04477400&typename=dmFile&fieldname=filename

    Here a further statement to governments, employers, businesses, insurers and the likes:
    http://www.racp.org.nz/download.cfm?downloadfile=E2F74DB8-95EE-6BC7-9E2C313D721B6F11&typename=dmFile&fieldname=filename

    But that aside, they still stand for this, and try to justify what they said before, and what the high calibre “experts” that pushed for all this, still adhere to:
    http://www.racp.org.nz/index.cfm?objectid=E1D5428F-B1BF-2C2F-7A247F80DC4F363C

    Here is what the Medical Council of New Zealand saw necessary to remind their members of in September 2013:

    http://www.mcnz.org.nz/assets/News-and-Publications/Statement-on-medical-certification-v4.pdf

    “Background
    1. As a doctor you are expected to sign a variety of medical certificates that range in purpose from confirming sickness to certifying death and are required by receiving agencies, which include employers, insurers, ACC and government departments.
    2. This statement outlines the standards that you must follow when completing a medical certificate1. It may be used by the Health Practitioner’s Disciplinary Tribunal, the Council and the Health and Disability Commissioner as a standard by which your conduct is measured. A certificate you have completed may also be challenged in a New Zealand court and you may be called upon to justify your decisions.”

    “Professional obligations
    3. Certificates are legal documents. Any statement you certify should be completed promptly, honestly, accurately, objectively and based on clear and relevant evidence.
    4. Your obligation is to the patient and to the law. Issues like the type of certificate being completed or who initiated, or pays, for the consultation must not influence your assessment and findings.
    5. You must not complete a medical certificate for yourself or someone close to you.”

    “Implications of certificates
    6. You must be aware that completing a certificate has implications for the patient, yourself, and the agency receiving the
    certificate.
    7. Studies have shown that patient, family and cultural factors may influence how doctors complete certificates. Certificates may have financial implications for the patient and the recipient through benefits, employment and compensation payments and failure to complete a certificate appropriately may have a negative impact on the patient, the patient’s family
    or the receiving agency. You need to be aware of these influences and recognise that you may be susceptible to them.
    8. Completing a certificate may also directly affect the safety and security of others. Certifying a patient to undertake work when he or she is unfit may place the patient or the patient’s colleagues at risk.
    9. Because a certificate has implications for the receiving agency, that agency might contact you for more information. You should therefore have a conversation with the patient about the information you are permitted to disclose if you are approached.”

    Yeah, right, the Health and Disability Commissioner will ensure rights of sick and disabled are met, is he?
    http://accforum.org/forums/index.php?/topic/14923-health-and-disability-commissioner/
    I would rather advise people to take doctors to court than go there!!!

    I think that much more needs sorting out here, and the ones that have to correct their ways above all else are the top dogs sitting in the MSD and in government as a whole!

    And any “research” from Professor Mansel Aylward should go straight into the waste paper bin, for shredding and recycling! Dr Bratt should himself be sacked and sent to spend the rest of his “working life” on the “dole”, I suggest, and his assets should be frozen, so he has no access to them.

    • Arfamo 28.1
      20 January 2014 at 9:56 pm

      and his assets should be frozen, so he has no access to them

      I’d be ok with it if they just froze him.

  29. Xtasy 29
    20 January 2014 at 9:54 pm

    The Medical Council of NZ, the RACP and AFOEM have got worried, and I wonder how MSD and WINZ are going to work with them and their doctor members in future, as they seem to be planning to be more careful with assessments and diagnosis.

    So maybe that is behind the plans for WINZ to start contracted out “medical assessments” and “work capability assessments” in February this year, following the UK example with ATOS, and possibly some competition for them over there some time soon.

    Keep your eyes on WINZ and what their “contracted” providers will get up to!

  30. Penny Bright 30
    20 January 2014 at 10:34 pm

    FYI

    Any considered opinions on this one – given that NZ is perceived to be ‘the least corrupt country in the world’?
    _____________________________________________________________________________

    EVIDENCE Attorney-General Chris Finlayson voted in favour of the New Zealand International Convention Centre Bill — Third Reading 12 November 2013

    How is this not a significant ‘conflict of interest’ for NZ Attorney-General Chris Finlayson?

    Even worse that it was a ‘personal’ vote?

    NZ Attorney-General Chris Finlayson voted in favour of the NZ International Convention Centre Bill (Third Reading). yet under s.106 of the NZ Crimes Act 1961,

    http://www.legislation.govt.nz/act/public/1961/0043/latest/DLM328783.htm

    106 Restrictions on prosecution

    (1)No one shall be prosecuted for an offence against any of the provisions of sections 100, 101, 104, 105, 105A,105B, 105C, and 105D without the leave of the Attorney-General, who before giving leave may make such inquiries as he or she thinks fit.

    (It is s.105(1) of the Crimes Act 1961, that a private prosecution of Auckland Mayor Len Brown was received by the Auckland District Court on !5 January 2014.)
    _____________________________________________________________________________

    http://www.parliament.nz/en-nz/pb/debates/debates/50HansD_20131112_00000024/new-zealand-international-convention-centre-bill-—-third

    New Zealand International Convention Centre Bill — Third Reading

    [Sitting date: 12 November 2013. Volume:694;Page:14549. Text is incorporated into the Bound Volume.]

    New Zealand International Convention Centre Bill

    A personal vote was called for on the question, That the New Zealand International Convention Centre Bill be now read a third time.

    Ayes 61

    Adams (P) Dunne (P) Key (P) Simpson (P)
    Ardern S (P) English (P) King C Smith (P)
    Auchinvole (P) Finlayson Lee (P) Tisch (P)
    Bakshi (P) Foss (P) Lotu-Iiga (P) Tolley (P)
    Banks (P) Foster-Bell Macindoe Tremain (P)
    Barry (P) Goldsmith (P) McClay (P) Upston (P)
    Bennett D Goodhew (P) McCully (P) Wagner
    Bennett P (P) Groser (P) McKelvie (P) Wilkinson (P)
    Borrows (P) Guy (P) Mitchell Williamson
    Bridges (P) Hauiti (P) Ngaro (P) Woodhouse
    Brownlee (P) Hayes (P) O’Connor S (P) Yang (P)
    Calder (P) Heatley (P) Parata (P) Young (P)
    Carter (P) Henare Roy (P)
    Coleman (P) Hutchison (P) Ryall (P)
    Collins (P) Joyce (P) Sabin (P) Teller:
    Dean (P) Kaye (P) Shanks (P) Ross

    Noes 59
    Ardern J (P) Harawira (P) Moroney Street (P)
    Browning (P) Hipkins (P) Norman (P) Tirikatene (P)
    Clark (P) Horan (P) O’Connor D (P) Turei
    Clendon (P) Hughes O’Rourke (P) Turia (P)
    Cosgrove (P) Huo (P) Parker (P) Twyford (P)
    Cunliffe (P) Jones (P) Peters (P) Walker (P)
    Curran King A Prasad (P) Wall (P)
    Delahunty Lees-Galloway (P) Prosser Whaitiri
    Dyson Little Robertson G (P) Williams
    Faafoi Logie (P) Robertson R (P) Woods (P)
    Fenton Lole-Taylor Roche
    Flavell Mackey Sage (P)
    Genter (P) Mahuta (P) Sharples (P)
    Goff (P) Mallard (P) Shearer (P)
    Graham (P) Martin Sio (P) Teller:
    Hague (P) Mathers (P) Stewart Beaumont

    Bill read a third time.

    _____________________________________________________l

    http://www.legislation.govt.nz/act/public/1961/0043/latest/DLM328753.html

    105 Corruption and bribery of official

    (1)Every official is liable to imprisonment for a term not exceeding 7 years who, whether within New Zealand or elsewhere, corruptly accepts or obtains, or agrees or offers to accept or attempts to obtain, any bribe for himself or herself or any other person in respect of any act done or omitted, or to be done or omitted, by him or her in his or her official capacity.

    (2)Every one is liable to imprisonment for a term not exceeding 7 years who corruptly gives or offers or agrees to give any bribe to any person with intent to influence any official in respect of any act or omission by him or her in his or her official capacity.

    Compare: Criminal Code (1954) s 102 (Canada)
    Section 105(2): amended, on 3 May 2001, by section 7 of the Crimes (Bribery of Foreign Public Officials) Amendment Act 2001 (2001 No 28).
    _____________________________________________________________________________

    Penny Bright

  31. Jilly Bee 31
    20 January 2014 at 11:09 pm

    Surprise, surprise – funny how Bill English wants to tax Google et al to pay their fair share of tax after Labour made the same suggestion last week http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=11189319

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