Open mike 20/03/2013

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, March 20th, 2013 - 211 comments
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Open mike is your post. For announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose.

The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the link to Policy in the banner).

Step right up to the mike…

211 comments on “Open mike 20/03/2013”

  1. Northshoreguynz 1

    http://www.roymorgan.com/news/polls/2013/4874/
    Looking better. Back to the upward trend line. Although one swallow doesn’t a summer make etc.

    • Colonial Viper 1.1

      It’s legged up from the 27% to 30% channel. Now sitting in the 30% to 34% channel. It’s better, but if Labour doesn’t want to rely on ol’ Winston, they need to do one more and consistently sit in the 35% to 40% channel.

      Particularly as I expect them to lose a solid few percent in the last months of campaigning when Key brings out the electoral bribes.

      • McFlock 1.1.1

        Agreed.

        I know, it scares me too 🙂

      • millsy 1.1.2

        You lot still remind me of the England rugby team doing a ‘victory lap’ in 1997 when they got beaten by ‘only’ 17 points when you go on about the polls.

        Reality in, they are embedded in National’s favour. No putting lipstick, eye shadow and blusher on that pig can deny that pig is still a pid.

  2. Labour still less popular than the 2008 election defeat.
    Another rogue poll they’ll claim.

    Nothing to be upbeat about here.

    • Colonial Viper 2.1

      But the reality is that the Greens are now integral to the total % count for Labour etc. etc.

  3. Jane 3

    Is a pity that Shearer has just blown it with the failure to record the foreign bank account. In itsself its a minor error of no real consequence but politically he has just thrown away the best stick Labour had to beat the NACT’s with, now every time there is a brain fade the retort will be ‘so how’s that 50k then?’, ‘remembered any big piles of cash lately?’. Mallard was trying to shut it down during question time but he came across as a tired old grumpy hack with little clue, not a encouraging scene.

    • Alanz 3.1

      *headdesk*

    • muzza 3.2

      Isn’t is facinating how when there is an opportunity of *poking some eyes* of the govt, the door gets shut, by a show of curruption around that very same opportunity, they’re all at it, and its *convenient* this time it just *happens* to be Shearer!

      This is a dirty little exposure into the world of bent over politicians!

      • Vicky32 3.2.1

        ‘its *convenient* this time it just *happens* to be Shearer!’

        Oh absolutely! A great distraction – and I have already seen that the Standardistas are all over it, because, as I have noticed before, many if not most, being Blue-Greens, feel far more loathing for Shearer than they ever have for Key… 🙁

        • The Al1en 3.2.1.1

          “I have already seen that the Standardistas are all over it, because, as I have noticed before, many if not most, being Blue-Greens, feel far more loathing for Shearer than they ever have for Key”

          Do you have any examples of blue greens, and or more loathing for Shearer than key?

    • Grumpy 3.3

      He has already admitted it’s more than $US100,000

    • infused 3.4

      Bigger than that, Shearers biggest mistake is his “not ruling it in, not ruling it out”.

      It’s massive. He’s a laughing stock. He needs to plug that asap.

      • Colonial Viper 3.4.1

        Some clever dicky of a political advisor to the Leaders office thought that gem up, no doubt.

        • Kevin Welsh 3.4.1.1

          As long as it hastens the demise of his ‘leadership’ then I wont lose any sleep.

          • Vicky32 3.4.1.1.1

            “As long as it hastens the demise of his ‘leadership’ then I wont lose any sleep.”

            Really, there’s no comment necessary.

            (I’ll make one anyway, that at least you are honest. )

            Tell me, how much on a scale of 1 to 10, do you love Key? Really?

        • North 3.4.1.2

          Walter Nash – 1951 – neither for nor against. Different times I acknowledge but if anything these different times (no Cold War issues today) should make it easier to spring from a principled standpoint.

    • Vicky32 3.5

      On the other hand, John Banks made a right prat of himself on Morning Report trying to make Shearer look bad, this morning.

      Mind you, those who hate Shearer, as most on the Standard seem to, will be overjoyed that Banks and 3 News have your backs!

      • The Al1en 3.5.1

        “those who hate Shearer, as most on the Standard seem to, will be overjoyed that Banks and 3 News have your backs!”

        Hate, such the wrong word, but just because banks is correct that DS should resign, won’t I’m sure, bring anything near comfort to many left wingers, whether they post here or not.

        • Descendant Of Sssmith 3.5.1.1

          Many of us don’t particularly care who the leader is and haven’t entered that debate.

          In the absence of caring benevolent left wing policy I don’t see that it much matters.

          Is labour going to:

          Increase benefit rates by $20-00
          Remove age discrimination in benefit rates Eg 18-24 year old rate
          Reinstate an 8 hour working day 40 hour working week
          Reduce shop opening hours so workers get a weekend
          Reintroduce cross employer wage bargaining
          Build state houses and let low income earners stay in them
          Increase tax rates
          Reintroduce death duties on estates
          Follow and monitor the principles of the NZ disability strategy across all govt departments
          Take state assets back
          Take funding away from private schools and put it back into public schools

          Any three of the above would be an improvement

          As I said who cares who the leader is. They have nothing to offer.

  4. Ed 4

    The “Cyprus solution” for New Zealand banks is getting some air time. Its not clear whether the Reserve Bank is already implementing “OBR” or whether legislation changes are being proposed.

    It seems that under John Key, your money may no longer be safe in a bank . . .

    • smokeskreen 4.1

      In todays’ NZ Herald –

      “Kiwis with money in the bank could see their nest eggs and savings dwindle in a government move the Greens say is a “Cyprus-style solution” to help out failing banks.

      New Zealand banks are readying their IT systems for Open Bank Resolution, a Reserve Bank policy that in extreme cases like insolvency would see a bank’s losses shouldered in part by its shareholders and creditors – including everyday depositors.

      The Reserve Bank has the power to freeze bank deposits but up to now has lacked the technical infrastructure to implement it – hence their requirement for banks with retail deposits of more than $1 billion to change their systems and meet their requirements by July 1.

      Under the policy, which can only be activated by the Minister of Finance, if a bank fails a statutory manager is appointed to calculate the bank’s liabilities.”

      You can read the full article at http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=10872361

      Why the hell is this Government pursuing Open Bank Resolution? Message to the Government – do not go down this track. This is theft and is unfair and unjust. The Cyprus Government has today overwhelmingly rejected the EU’s demands to tax all bank accounts by 10% to bail out the banks. According to the Herald article, virtually no other country in the OECD uses OBR.

      It is all about banks – not about people. Bailing out banks which are considered “too big to fail” cannot continue. Things have got to change – the world’s financial system cannot carry on like this.

      • Colonial Viper 4.1.1

        NZ still part of the global neoliberal bankster experiment.

      • bad12 4.1.2

        But they will carry on like this, until of course the ‘next round’ of failures occurs and an attempt is made to snatch depositors monies to prop them up,

        Lolz, the depositors then will be told that they are all unsecured creditors and if they be good and wait a couple of years they might get some of their money back,

        Larfs, the sparks will then begin to fly as the middle classes take to the streets, was saying on the weekend that the safest place for your spare cash aint the banks, it’s a hole in the ground,

        When the losses of Capitalism during it’s ‘recessions’ doubles and triples when compared against the gains made in the ensuing ‘growth’ periods then Capitalism as a system of economics is all but dead,

        That situation is pretty much ‘the where we are at now’, what most call wealth, from the lowliest of mortgage holders to the loftiest of banks with the most zeroes on the balance sheet, it is reality DEBT,

        The only ‘real’ monies are to be found as the numbers you have in your bank accounts accrued there by the sweat of your labour, your small share of the profits of Capitalism,

        The time will come when those that planned the crime of the century will come looking for that money….

      • Draco T Bastard 4.1.3

        And what needs to happen is to inform people that having their money in the bank earning interest is a risk and that they may lose their money then, when a bank actually fails, let it fail. No more of this bailing them out.

        Oh, and stop calling the money that people give banks deposits and start calling them what they are – loans.

        • muzza 4.1.3.1

          B – Not quite! Some people have a positive net balance with banks (however that came to be), which would mean for you to say…

          Stop calling the money people give banks deposits, and start calling them what they are – Other People’s Loans

          http://www.rbnz.govt.nz/finstab/banking/4368385.html

          Why should depositors bail-out banks?

          The OBR policy is designed to ensure that first losses are borne by the bank’s existing shareholders. In addition, a portion of depositors’ and other unsecured creditors’ funds will be frozen to bear any remaining losses

          NZ inc – In serious trouble!

          • bad12 4.1.3.1.1

            Lolz, the USA inc in trouble you mean, this is what most people do not understand, we talk here in New Zealand of the Aussie owned banks,

            Well they aint, Aussie owned that is, we all are simply ‘lead to believe’ that such a cozy situation exists where those people just like us across the ditch ‘own’ the banks in New Zealand,

            You wont find a list of US banks on the Australian sharemarket showing which % of those Aussie banks they actually own, such ownership is hidden among and in Nominee Company’s which hold the shares on behalf of the true owners,

            The same situation exists here in New Zealand where 50 odd % of the construction company Fletcher Construction is held in the name of a nominee company owned by the NZ Reserve Bank,

            Only the Nominee Company’s name appears on the Fletcher Construction share register and only the nominee company knows who the true owners of the shares are…

            • muzza 4.1.3.1.1.1

              Lolz, the USA inc in trouble you mean, this is what most people do not understand, we talk here in New Zealand of the Aussie owned banks,

              Its the BIS which controls it all – The UK controls the USA in the banking sense which most understand is the case. Do not be fooled by thinking thr US is the major player in banking, its simply not the case.

              Annoys me badly when people still thnk its OZ or the US who controls our shit!

              Thanks for the info, which I am well aware of!

              When I said NZ inc, I meant, NZ inc, banking aside!

          • Draco T Bastard 4.1.3.1.2

            Stop calling the money people give banks deposits, and start calling them what they are – Other People’s Loans

            A deposit in a bank is, as a matter of fact, a loan to the bank.

      • Poission 4.1.4

        ” Bailing out banks which are considered “too big to fail” cannot continue. Things have got to change – the world’s financial system cannot carry on like this.”

        To big to manage,to big to police,to big to exist time to break them up eg Ma Bell

        http://www.huffingtonpost.com/les-leopold/too-big-to-fail_b_2897649.html

    • millsy 4.2

      All this is going to do is result in long lines at the ATM’s with people withdrawing their money. The people is is going to hurt is those who live from pay to pay, 10% of their money is going to leave a big whole in their budget, and giving up smokes, booze and takeaways is not going to cover it.

      • Colonial Viper 4.2.1

        You can’t be surprised the banksters suggested actions which would hurt the rank and file the most?

        After all, the rich have the majority in stocks, bonds and property – not grandma style bank deposits.

  5. Dv 5

    Ed here is a stuff report.

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/money/8446573/Kiwis-could-face-Cyprus-style-trim

    Under the new OBR policy, Tripe said bank shareholders would lose first,then the balance of losses would be faced by creditors. But in other countries deposit guarantee schemes meant depositors were promised some, though perhaps not all, of their money. For example, in Australia the guarantee was for A$250,000, backed up by other banks.

    It was lucky that cyprus happened , otherwise this would have completely under the radar.

    • muzza 5.1

      This was already in play once the original deposit underwrite lapsed in 2011, now its being played out via Cyprus, lets see the cockroaches run in all directions.

      With the big bank in NZ being so *profitable* why would their be any reason to believe one/any/all might collapse – Thats rhetorical, and should be obvious to work out.

      Banks can be crashed at any time, its a rather simple process, called off balance sheet exposures!

  6. Maureen 6

    I haven’t commented on this site before and I know y’all have been critisised for dissing Shearer. But I’m bursting with frustration about his continuing ineptitude. The $50, 000? I don’t care but I do care about his inability to express himself clearly, his hesitant speech, his lack of conviction. He was interviewed by Rachael Smalley this morning and was his usual self. Better than six months ago but far below most other pollies. A very young fellow fighting youth wages came on later (James Sleep?) and outshone him by miles: passionate, eloquent, articulate.

    He was weak on Native Affairs last week too.

    I don’t think that David Shearer has the ability to be a Prime Minister. It’s more than just a lack of speaking skills; he lacks conviction.He’s indecisive. His political values are not clear to him let alone us punters. I couldn’t vote Labour with him in charge because I have no faith in him. I’m sure there is a level at which he works brilliantly but it’s not at Leader of the Op/Prime Ministerial level.

    Just had to say that.

    • Grumpy 6.1

      Fool, it’s more than $50,000. He has admitted to Duncan Garner that it’s more than $100,000.

      I have heard it’s $320,000 and remember, it’s all US dollars. No wonder he wants to talk down the $NZ.

      • Colonial Viper 6.1.1

        Thanks for having the patience to repeatedly point this out. $50K is the minimum limit it can be. Hell if it was exactly $50K you could draw out a $20 note at the corner ATM and drop it under the reporting threshold.

        Assuming the actual number is between $50K and $500K…with an average of $225K…your number is not outlandish in the least.

        Who the hell forgets to report $200K – $300K (US) stashed overseas?

        • muzza 6.1.1.1

          Who the hell forgets to report $200K – $300K (US) stashed overseas?

          Someone with much more to keep hidden, than just the cash!

          People who can’t wrap their heads around the 50K explanation, are the same people who will be losing their deposit money, when that time comes!

          • SpaceMonkey 6.1.1.1.1

            +1… we’re being readied for it.

            • muzza 6.1.1.1.1.1

              Correct, we are being readied!

              If people and the media, will not stand up against the probably theft of their already taxed savings/deposits (note I say taxed, as the big money evaders will not use regular deposit accounts, so this will hit the average Kiwi hardest, as its designed to do), then their really is nothing that will get people off their seats.

              If Cyprus does not pull off this coup, what odds that NZ will be first!

              So much for any nonsene talk about increasing savings in NZ, this is hardly going to be catalyst to encourage it eh. Which means, that there is more intent to this OBR than its face value, lets start listing what consequences could be expected from the OBR, when is comes to go live!

              Its hands in pockets time, lets see who is paying attention!

              • grumpy

                Cyprus government has rules out taking bank deposits.

                The proposed “haircut” is capitalism at it’s most corrupt. Just as well Shearer has his money stashed offshore.

        • infused 6.1.1.2

          I wish I could.

        • grumpy 6.1.1.3

          Bet he checks the exchange rate every day on the internet – just hoping that somehow it will go down……….

        • Jimmy 6.1.1.4

          Rich Pricks!

      • Te Reo Putake 6.1.2

        I heard it was $50 million, grumpy. My made up figure is just as likely to be true as your made up figure. The point isn’t the amount, it’s allowing John Banks a lifeline that pisses me off.

        • mikesh 6.1.2.1

          Some government members are calling for his resignation. Which reminds me of the proverb about being careful what you wish for, since your wish may come true.

          • Alanz 6.1.2.1.1

            Groan. Why does this feel like Shearer is giving us another one of those scoring-your-own-goal moments?

        • grumpy 6.1.2.2

          Won’t be $50m, if it was he’d be leading the National Party.

          • Colonial Viper 6.1.2.2.1

            shit dude you on fire today

            • grumpy 6.1.2.2.1.1

              Jeez, I hope you guys keep him on. Just listened to Duncan’s interview…………………….

            • Te Reo Putake 6.1.2.2.1.2

              Grumpy on fire, CV? It took him 3 and half hours to recognise the $50 mil figure. And even then he still didn’t get why I chose it and repeated the joke. Still, he was 15 minutes quicker than you, 😉

      • Treetop 6.1.3

        If it was the first time I commented and I was called a fool I would call you tactless. Grumpy when you know the figure let me know.

        I agree a lot with what Maureen had to say.

        • Grumpy 6.1.3.1

          TRP says $50m and I say $350k. Shearer says over $100k.

          One thing for sure, it’s in $US and it’s a shitload.

    • Te Reo Putake 6.2

      Good on ya, Maureen, that’s a good summary of the problems Labour faces under Shearer’s leadership.

      At a time when the left should be bolting ahead, we seem to be limping to victory. However, MMP allows you to vote strategically, so if you can’t party vote Labour, the Greens would welcome your support. And whatever Shearer’s faults, I hope you will consider electorate voting for your local Labour candidate; its important that local communities have local MP’s who care for local people.

      Hope to see more comments from you in the future!

      • The Al1en 6.2.1

        At this moment in time, Green party two ticks.
        No way am I giving a vote to Labour’s shower. Never reward incompetence.

        Sue Moroney in Hamilton West. -1

        • karol 6.2.1.1

          Moroney has always seemed very competent to me.

          • Colonial Viper 6.2.1.1.1

            Likewise. She is serious minded, thoughtful and focussed on helping her consituents.

            • Skinny 6.2.1.1.1.1

               Actually she is useless bailed from Hamilton east ( leaving the LEC in a mess)to stand in west. Because she was well in on the party list, didn’t even bother to go out door knocking! Too fat & lazy. West is a seat that should have been won back by Labour, get a decent candidate who is prepared to door knock!  

            • The Al1en 6.2.1.1.1.2

              Two time loser in Hamilton East before she jumped over the river to Martin Gallagher’s safe seat and then lost twice to god’s man, macindoh, and no doubt on course for a threepeat.

              I’ve nothing much against Sue either, but she’s list material, and I’m not voting Labour.

              • The Al1en

                A bit of an edit with fact, opposed to dodgy recall, about Sue’s record.
                Surprisingly enough, it doesn’t harm my case or make one for someone else.

                96 Karapiro – Lost
                02 Piako – Lost
                05 Piako – Lost
                08 Ham East – Lost
                11 Ham West – Lost

                Easy prediction:

                14 Ham West – Lost

        • Te Reo Putake 6.2.1.2

          Cool, Alien, John Key thanks you for rewarding his incompetence (while sniggering at your naivety). Mind you, if the Green electorate candidate is that nice Mr Servian, I’d be tempted too.

          • The Al1en 6.2.1.2.1

            I can’t work out if you’re serious or not. You’ve tried the ‘it’s all your fault’ trick on me before.

            No naivety here, bruv. I’m all for tactical voting, but only if the recipient is on par with my principles – Labour are not.
            Thing is, not only am I not voting for a Labour candidate, I’m going to do all I can to actively campaign against them. The more votes the Greens get, the more likely they are to try and win a seat. I hope they get serious about fighting for votes.

            Again, just like the pm thanking me, DS owes all the suck ups and mediocrity apologists a pint or two.
            At least we know he aint short of a few bob.
            Sup up.

            • Te Reo Putake 6.2.1.2.1.1

              Well, you’re way out of sync with both MMP and the Green Party’s electoral strategy. If you attend a election public meeting, the GP candidate will almost certainly say, if asked, that they really want the party vote. The GP are sensibly focussed on the party vote, because they know that there aren’t the concentrations of symapthetic populations in any NZ electorate currently. When Auckland hits 3 or 4 million, then maybe they could pick up an inner city seat. It’s one of the lessons learned from ’99, where their fortunes seemed entirely dependent on one candidate winning a seat.*

              The end result of your vote is that you are supporting the return of a Tory MP. So, yeah, I’m serious. I don’t like National and I don’t much like lefties who prefer to enable Tories rather than use their vote to help their fellow citizens. Oddly enough, Russel Norman used to be a member of an Aussie Trotskyist party who were viciously anti-Labor and, by default, pro-Liberal. They reasoned that Labor were a false dawn and as the workers were more oppressed under the Liberals, they would move to a pre-revolutionary position quicker. Total childish bollocks, obviously, but, to be fair, I found their equally do-lally free love policy very much to my liking.

              I’m optimistic that Norman has moved on from that sectarian kind of politics. He seems genuinely convinced of the need to work positively with Labour to acheive Green goals. Perhaps you might consider doing the same?

              *As it turned out, they both won the seat and scraped over the 5% threshold. And the electorate seat was won because Labour voters, including myself, were mature to vote intelligently.

              • The Al1en

                “Well, you’re way out of sync with both MMP and the Green Party’s electoral strategy.”

                Nope, I’m fully aware how mmp works, and if you read my post, you’ll see I say “The more votes the Greens get, the more likely they are to try and win a seat. I hope they get serious about fighting for votes.”

                “The end result of your vote is that you are supporting the return of a Tory MP. ”

                One way of looking at it. I prefer Labour are shit and their fault entirely why they’re not worthy of my vote and why they’ll be in opposition in 2014.

                “So, yeah, I’m serious.”

                😆

                “I don’t like National and I don’t much like lefties who prefer to enable Tories rather than use their vote to help their fellow citizens.”

                Nearly the same as me. I don’t like National and I don’t much like lefties who prefer to enable self interest groups in caucus, rather than use their vote to help their fellow citizens.

                “He seems genuinely convinced of the need to work positively with Labour to acheive Green goals. Perhaps you might consider doing the same?”

                Give me a proper Labour party and there wouldn’t be an issue. All those with the ‘make do with what we’ve got’ and ‘let’s pull together’ attitudes are big part responsible for killing Labour. Enable losers and that’s what happens.
                Won’t be done by me, fact.

                “Labour voters, including myself, were mature to vote intelligently.”

                Let’s hope more Labour voters realise that and give two ticks for Green in 2014.

            • Vicky32 6.2.1.2.1.2

              “The more votes the Greens get, the more likely they are to try and win a seat. I hope they get serious about fighting for votes.”

              So, may I take it that 99% of people here are Greens? Good to know. I am off again. Bye! 🙂

              • The Al1en

                “So, may I take it that 99% of people here are Greens?”

                I’ve never asked, but I’d very much doubt it.

                “Good to know. I am off again. Bye!”

                Thanks for all the fish.

              • Te Reo Putake

                Hey, V32, been wondering where you were at. Y’all come back now, y’hear?

                • The Al1en

                  Reinforcements 😆

                  “One by one, all at once, I’ll take you all on.
                  One by one, all at once, until you’re all gone.”

              • Treetop

                Just because I prefer Cunliffe to be leader this does not mean that I hate Shearer. I realise that this may be seen to be disloyal to the leader. Second best is second best. For me Robertson and Shearer do not work well together as both are inexperienced. I could live with Robertson being leader and Cunliffe being deputy.

                I do not doubt that Shearer is putting in a lot of effort and in a few years he may excel. It took Clark 18 years to become PM and I always had full confidence in her.

                Re Key, I would not shake his hand, Shearer’s hand I would, I would accept it if he did not want to shake my hand. I support the team first and not the captain.

        • felixviper 6.2.1.3

          What’s your problem with Moroney?

          I think she’s one of the more talented Labour MPs. Straight talking and sharp as a whip.

        • Enough is Enough 6.2.1.4

          Agreed.

          She should be winning Hamilton West against a fundy homophobe like Macindoe. She is ineffective and will hopefully just go on the list next time around so we can get a strong contender in to win back HW.

      • Colonial Viper 6.2.2

        I hope you will consider electorate voting for your local Labour candidate

        Well that sorta depends on who they are eh 😈

        • Colonial Weka 6.2.2.1

          Does it? If the alternative is a NACT MP?

          • Colonial Viper 6.2.2.1.1

            Are there any electorates in the country where only 2 candidates run?

            • Te Reo Putake 6.2.2.1.1.1

              Wrong question, CV. What you should be asking is “are there any electorates that National or Labour won’t win?” The answer is ‘not many, if any’. Currently, its only 4 Maori seats and Ohariu. Epsom doesn’t count as independant of National. So, a vote for any party other than Labour in a marginal electorate is an endorsement of your local Nat MP, by default. That’s just how MMP works.

              And its worth remembering that having a tory as your electorate MP does make life worse for most people. The electorate MP’s have the ability to take up issues for their constituents, to work with local councils to improve the area, to be a voice for their people. That good stuff doesn’t happen if your MP wears a blue rosette.

              • Enough is Enough

                “That’s just how MMP works.”

                Well not quite…thats how FPP works which is how the electorate MP is elected.

              • Colonial Viper

                Wrong question, CV. What you should be asking is “are there any electorates that National or Labour won’t win?” The answer is ‘not many, if any’

                That’s true but there’s only one way to change that 2 party dynamic.

                • Te Reo Putake

                  Revolution? Life’s a lot simpler with a one party dynamic!

                  • Colonial Viper

                    Ah yes so true! Then we’ll change the country’s name to the Democratic Republic of (something or other).

                • The Al1en

                  “there’s only one way to change that 2 party dynamic.”

                  “Revolution?”

                  Nope, just vote for someone else.

        • Tim 6.2.2.2

          What if the Labour candidate is Robertson? I get the impression the guy is just playing the game, not rocking the Labour Waka UNTIL he gets the opportunity to break lose and let rip – kinda like waiting for someone else to do the dirty work.

      • Alanz 6.2.3

        “limping to victory”

        Wow. Keep up the astounding optimism.
        Some of us backing Shearer badly need that.

    • Socialist Paddy 6.3

      I really hate to say this but Key’s response to Shearer’s predicament was exquisitely balanced.

      He said:

      “People make mistakes. I make mistakes and when I do, I try and tell people I’ve made them. It’s just that you don’t get cut any slack from the Labour Party when you say you’ve made a mistake, but when they make one they don’t want anyone to have a look at it.”

      At an emotional level his comment was pitched perfectly. Rather than the rapacious merchant banker we know he is he came across as a decent human being, acknowledging human frailty, showing forgiveness but at the same time undermining Labour’s current approach.

      I think Labour has to forget hunting for the personal headshot and instead concentrate on policies and talk about the future.

      Just like the Greens.

      Instead of playing their beltway games they need to do something different.

      • Colonial Viper 6.3.1

        Key is frakking good. The man may be an Investment Banking Cylon, but he’s damn good at what he’s been assigned to do. (It seems the team he’s pulled together in his office are pretty sharp as well).

        • bad12 6.3.1.1

          Yeah Slippery the Prime Minister is good alright,a f**king good con artist and someone who gives every appearance of being a compulsive liar,

          Continually spreading bovine defecation even when there is no logical reason to lie to the New Zealand public,

          ‘Open Mike’ this morning is looking like an open advertisement for a National Government after November 2014…

          • Vicky32 6.3.1.1.1

            “‘Open Mike’ this morning is looking like an open advertisement for a National Government after November 2014…”

            Quoted for truth!

      • SpaceMonkey 6.3.2

        Agreed. It was the first time I’ve seen him anything near statesman-like..

      • Chris 6.3.3

        There is no way key could use this as a flogging stick(Shearers admission) as you only need to go back to all his videos online showing him lying and prevaricating time and time again.Remember Tranzrail shares interview.He will keep pretty quiet on this one. As for Moroney I think she is brilliant.Would love to see her go against bouncy bennett.

        • Draco T Bastard 6.3.3.1

          There is no way key could use this as a flogging stick(Shearers admission) as you only need to go back to all his videos online showing him lying and prevaricating time and time again.Remember Tranzrail shares interview.

          Except that’s exactly what he’s doing and getting away with it because the MSM aren’t holding him to account and showing all the times that he’s lied.

      • Murray Olsen 6.3.4

        Key talking about human frailty, forgiveness etc may just mean that he’s trying to set the stage for when more NAct dirty dealings become public. But anyway, the opposition as a whole could learn from the Greens and move around policy rather than personalities. It shouldn’t take Shearer too long to learn what a few of the core opposition policies should be. Cunliffe and Hone already know.

        • Draco T Bastard 6.3.4.1

          It shouldn’t take Shearer too long to learn what a few of the core opposition policies should be.

          He’s been in the job for better than a year and he still hasn’t figured it out.

          • Colonial Viper 6.3.4.1.1

            I think that was some subtle sarcasm there

            • Rogue Trooper 6.3.4.1.1.1

              as an aside,
              the Cypriot parliament votes to reject bank tax bill; if no other plan, “banks face collapse, followed by the country’s economy”.

              from The Dark Knight Rises;

              Floor Trader: “this is a stock exchange, there is no money you can steal”.

              Bane: “really, then when are you people here.”

              • Colonial Viper

                Reminds me of something else

                “you can’t compare the crimes of robbing a bank with owning a bank”

    • Paul 6.4

      It’s deliberate. The powers that be want the neo-liberal revolution to stay in lace. Solution – hire
      someone who won’t upset the apple cart if Key gets booted out.

  7. Raymond a Francis 7

    Isn’t it about time that David Shearer disclosed all his bank and tax statements

    And as for Mallard’s pathetic “point of orders” and shouting of “liar,liar” to protect the brand it just came over as an old broken man’s ramblings

    Surely even the most loyal Labour people can see it is time for a change or a clean out

    • Colonial Viper 7.1

      Indeed. It was apparent to some of us 6-12 months ago that the Labour Leadership was going to become a big problem. Month by month, those concerns have grown, not decreased.

      If Labour is still polling in the low 30’s at Congress in Christchurch this year, it will be a very interesting get together.

    • David H 7.2

      Well here’s hoping that the HUTT electorate will have the balls to put up a decent candidate. And tell Mallard to go and get a real job, and stop annoying the voters.

  8. Dr Terry 8

    Oh, for the good old days of Phil Goff!! But no, Labour had to stuff up even more than before.

    • fender 8.1

      So true Dr Terry, it’s obvious that Goff should have remained leader rather than bringing in an incompetent pretender. Just yesterday Goff gave an impassioned speech on youth rates that highlighted (to me at least) just how far backwards we have gone.

  9. xtasy 9

    Welcome to the DICTATORSHIP of Aotearoa – New Zealand, where the one chamber Parliament allows governments like the present National led one, supported by ACT and the “Dunney” UF get away with pushing through legislation against all serious objections, concerns and opposition.

    The Submission Process before Select Committee(s) has proved to be a time-wasting “circus” once again, where the ‘Social Security (Benefit Categories and Work Focus) Amendment Bill’ was “considered” without seriously listening to, and considering, the vast majority of submissions opposing very major changes to the Social Security Act 1964. They will be the biggest changes for at least a generation, and they will bring in a draconian regime for most beneficiaries, with discriminatory and thus illegal social obligations and a questionable drug testing regime to be introduced.

    Sick will be turned into “job seekers” practically with the stroke of the administrative pen, once the Governor General will give his assent to the law changes.

    Outsourced services, including ones for assessing “work capability” for sick and disabled will be introduced and implemented, which are UK style, and which will be at the discretion of the Chief Executive and her/his staff, when it comes to frequency and types. We can expect similar disasters like in the UK, where Atos Healthcare is the privately run assessor, getting paid for performance rates, and having driven people into early death, not coping with work expected of them, or by simply opting out of life altogether.

    The Minister and her staff where challenged how these assessments would in future look like, but no details have been provided. Yet the law to enable such an outsourced assessment regime will be put into place. The few changes the majority of the committee now agreed to are mostly rather miniscule and “cosmetic”. This means the bill will be pushed through a 2nd Reading and become law in July 2013.

    First opposition to the report has been expressed by home schoolers. See the report for yourselves:
    http://www.parliament.nz/NR/rdonlyres/BA3A8C04-EA05-454D-8875-EA715B021E0B/266329/DBSCH_SCR_5776_SocialSecurityBenefitCategoriesandW.pdf

    Feedback and first reports:
    http://www.voxy.co.nz/politics/parents-unhappy-report-social-security-bill-hef/5/150329
    http://hef.org.nz/2013/social-security-benefit-categories-and-work-focus-amendment-bill-select-committee-report/

    You can read the minority party reports in this report, and yes, strong opposition from Labour and the Greens, but only moderate criticism from NZ First. Where are the public voices by Labour MPs and by especially Jacinda Ardern, and please, Jan Logie, speak out loud publicly, and the summarised criticism appears rather “soft” to “weak” to me.

    There has been NO MEDIA REPORTS of significance at all on the bill and the likely changes, and here we go again, it smells damned much like a DICTATORSHIP of sorts we live in here in NZ.

    Once a government has just one vote majority support, they get away with almost anything, even introducing illegal, human rights and dignity breaking new laws. The media, mostly mainstream, is basically “neutered”. Shame, shame and more shame on NZers putting up with all this SHIT!

    • johnm 9.1

      Hi Xtasy
      +1 Thankyou for your insight into the lamentable lack of real democracy here in in NZ. I operate on a much simpler level than yourself: This RWNJ government will copy any BS they see RWNJ U$ or U$K governments getting away with because they’re empty and heartless and are continuing to demolish everything that once made New Zealand a great and socially just place to live with opportunity for all.

      • muzza 9.1.1

        Johnm – Its not so much a case of copying, its the centrally distributed hub/spoke style neo-colonial, neo-liberal approach, think central banking system!

        Make no mistake, this comes externally, and is rolled out into NZ, not copied!

        • Draco T Bastard 9.1.1.1

          +1

          Mankind is social and thus builds networks thus political parties have networks with other, similar, parties. Within that network will be a hierarchy with one at the top and for the parties of the right that will most likely be the republicans in the US. Which would explain our present government rolling out failed policies from the last conservative US government.

          We need to take back our country from the present ruling clique and that means referenda. The majority of people won’t have such narrow international networks.

          • muzza 9.1.1.1.1

            Spot on B.

            Do you think someone could stand in an electorate, and run as an independent who has only a singular initial position.

            That being to expose/communicate to the public exactly what does on , and is going on inside parliament, dirty dealings the lot.

            Someone who represent the people genuinely, not this artificial theatre we have, filled with puppets.

            Thoughts?

            • clashman 9.1.1.1.1.1

              IME most people just don’t want to know, muzza. I’ve pretty much given up trying to explain/convince people that the whole system is a sham (amongst other things)
              I’m so sick of hearing “i’m sure the Govt. has our best interest at heart”, or worse “if it was really that bad someone would do something” or “ooh a conspiracy theorist, eh?”
              Sheeple and ostriches, mate, the world is full of them.

              • xtasy

                clashman: Sounds a bit like the jews that did not bother leaving Germany and some other countries in Central Europe, after the Nazis took power, and after the first ominous signs showed. Yeah right, she’ll be right somehow, but once the truth comes, nobody wants anything to do with it. It was all meant to be for the right reasons, I can hear such excuses ring into my ears already.

    • xtasy 9.2

      The Labour Party minority view is to be found on pages 13 to 15 (top of page 16 is one last line), and the Green Party minority view on this bill is to be found on pages 16 to 19, and NZ First’s minority view is found on pages 19 to 21. As it appears certain that Labour and the Greens will vote against the bill, I am not clear on how NZ First intends to vote, but at first sight it seems, that they are also not impressed and convinced this bill will improve conditions for beneficiaries and lead to more employment in a depressed job market.

      I am dismayed about the lack of resolute opposition, as much criticism from all minorities is rather about the jobs not being there, not focusing staunchly enough on the injustices, illegallity and draconian, inhumane measures also proposed. Only to some degree d I read clear criticism.

      The majority in the committee are or were National MPs, so no wonder it has ended up with this report.

    • karol 9.3

      Thanks, xtasy for that valuable report. I see the Bill is currently first on the order paper for debate in the House today – any idea what time? The schedule on my TV says Live broadcast starts at 2pm with QT.

      • Barbara 9.3.1

        It is first up at 2pm

        Please ring these MPs: http://hef.org.nz/2013/please-ring-as-many-mps-as-you-can-today-before-2pm/

        Please email all the MPs: http://hef.org.nz/2013/please-email-the-mps-today-before-2pm/

        Please email and phone before 2pm

        • karol 9.3.1.1

          Thanks.

        • xtasy 9.3.1.2

          Barbara and Karol – As it is Wednesday, usually there is a debate under “Miscelleaneous Business” after Question Time. So I am unsure whether it will already be up at 02 pm. It could instead be after that more general “debate” by members.

      • alwyn 9.3.2

        On Wednesday you get QT, typically an hour or so, from 2.00pm
        Then there is General Business, 12 speechs each max 5 minutes, say 3.00 to 4.00pm.
        Then you get the Social Security amendment bill from about 4.00pm.
        Question time might run on a bit today as there are likely to be a few POO re comments about Shearer’s F.U.
        I’ve just looked at Parliamentary TV and they are still on quesstion time at 3.21pm so they will be running late.

        • karol 9.3.2.1

          A lot of the problem is points or order raised re- the Speaker’s incompetence. he allowed Joyce to avoid answering questions – ditto Brownlee.

          • bad12 9.3.2.1.1

            Not only points of order, the question time today was turned into a parody of the absurd by the Speaker allowing question number one to Slippery the Prime Minister to be transferred to State owned Enterprises Minister Tony Ryall,

            The question??? what warnings had Slippery the Prime Minister been given by Bill the Member for Dipton about the sale of Mighty River Power in discussions between the 2 on the sale process,

            In allowing Ryall to answer the question the Speaker simply allowed the Prime Minister to make a mockery of the Parliament as Ryall ducked any answer by simply saying He did not know,

            We can expect ‘the Speaker’ of the house to show slight bias toward the Party of Government, but we should neither expect nor condone ‘the Speaker’ making a mockery of the whole Parliamentary question time by allowing a Slippery little Shyster like the current New Zealand Prime Minister to ‘game’ the place when it is more than obvious that if the SOE Minister Tony Ryall was not at such a meeting between the Prime Minister and Minister of Finance He could not answer the question diverted to Him by the Prime Minister…

          • xtasy 9.3.2.1.2

            karol: The Speaker is an utter embarrassment for any democratic system, and it does not make NZ’s Parliament look like a sound House, rather one not much in order. The concerns about his appointment have proved to have been justified.

    • mikesh 9.4

      It seems a pity the Governor General doesn’t have a power of veto similar to that enjoyed by President Obama.T he GG can withhold his consent, but by convention always accepts the advice of the prime minister. However, this convention would seem to be based on the assumption that the prime minister’s advice encapsulates the “will of the people”, since the PM and cabinet are selected from amongst MPs elected by the people. It seems to me though that the convention ought to be considered inoperative where the PMs advice is clearly at odds with the wishes of the people, as might be demonstrated in a referendum.

      In the case of asset sales, for example, if the forthcoming referendum goes against the government, and flogging off assets in seen not to be in the public interest, the GG it seems to me should prepared to intervene.

      • millsy 9.4.1

        RE: Gov-gen veto.

        Be careful what you wish for.Imagine if Sir John Kerr had the power of veto back between 72 and 75? (Oz example I know)

  10. infused 10

    Out of interest, does anyone know why we don’t have cheaper dentist care in NZ? I know if you are under a certain age it’s free or discounted.

    Most people have such bad teeth, and it’s so expensive to fix.

    Really hoping someone like spec savers of the dentist industry come and and nail them. It’s the last untouched profession that seems to rape people. Optometrists got away with it for so long.

    • Colonial Viper 10.1

      Out of interest, does anyone know why we don’t have cheaper dentist care in NZ?

      The first Labour Govt didn’t have enough political support against the dentistry lobby to take dental care fully public. So dental care remained largely private sector private provider driven from that time on, whereas care from a medical doctor became largely public sector and socially provided, from that time on.

      No Government since then has tackled the hard political issue of providing full dental care to adults, mainly because it would cost Treasury an arm and a leg.

      • infused 10.1.1

        Yeah I know it would be expensive. It’s probably one thing I’d support though. Growing up in Taihape, we had to take fluoride tablets. Partner was from down south with the same issue. She has a few teeth problems, and now has to have one pulled.

        I had an accident where I lost a tooth, had to have an implant. 3 months and $2k later it was in. Subsidised by ACC ($5k originally).

        Shit be expensive….

    • Murray Olsen 10.2

      I blame the student loan scheme for the high cost of dental care. By the time someone has qualified through Dental School, they owe the price of a small house. They understandably want to get this paid off. A government that was serious about providing affordable dental care would only need to subsidise the training, perhaps even with new practitioners bonded to community clinics for a few years after graduation. I’m sure it could be done, and wouldn’t be horrendously expensive.

      • Colonial Viper 10.2.1

        Dentists over 45 didn’t go through with student loans.

        Do they charge less than younger dentists.

        • Bill 10.2.1.1

          Well no, of course they don’t – what with being fair minded types who couldn’t bring themselves to undercut the young ‘uns out of the market. See, they had to charge like wounded bulls, though it hurt them so!

    • BM 10.3

      Thailand.
      It’s where every one goes, have a holiday and get all your dental work done at a 1/3rd of the price it costs in NZ.
      In the reputable clinics, the Thai dentists are US trained with the latest gear, makes our dentist clinics look stone age.

  11. Raymond a Francis 11

    I am not a dentist but one reason it is expensive is that the training takes a long time and even then it is a high stress job (the people you deal with seriously don’t want to be there) and because it is a physical job they can’t work on into their dotage like lawyers and doctors

    You used to be able to get work done at the Dentist schools for cost and if you wait some at hospitals

    • bad12 11.1

      Yes Kenepuru Hospital in Porirua does ‘pain relief’ work which in the main is taking out any painfull teeth,(only one at a time tho),

      To access this you need at least a Community Service card and 30 dollars for the part charge, also you have to have the Hospitals dental clinic phone number and ring to see if there is a time for the day to fit you in,

      They only make appointments for ‘on that day’ and you have to ring right on 8 in the morning otherwise you wont get an appointment,

      If they cannot see you that day you have to ring dead on 8 the next morning to try and get an appointment,

      their number= 04 978 2871…

    • felixviper 11.2

      Yes Raymond that’s the market analysis of why dentists charge a lot.

      But I think the real question is why do govts continue to allow the market to dictate the price of such a basic health requirement.

    • Daveosaurus 11.3

      True. The last time I went to the dentist, about a quarter of an hour of sanding down and bogging up cost me about $300. Assuming about half an hour’s time (including preparation) each of the dentist, of the dentist’s hander-over-of-tools, and the dentist’s answerer-of-phones-and-writer-of-bills; depreciation on capital of all the dentist’s medical equipment (that stuff is likely to be as expensive as hell), the rent of the offices, that all adds up, even before paying off the student loans; so that was a reasonably fair price, I thought.

      A public dental service would be a good thing, but it would either have to be set up from scratch (at monumental expense) or contracted out to existing dentists who’d have to charge back (and considering how the current incompetent bunch can’t even pay schoolteachers, I wouldn’t blame any dentist for not believing a word from Wellington).

      • millsy 11.3.1

        Might be an idea to enable people to use their KiwiSaver accounts to pay for dental care, would be a good start without too much effort, and be an incentive for more people to sign up.

  12. xtasy 12

    So I dare do ask, where is “the left” in NZ when it comes to showing solidarity with the beneficiaries facing the most mean spirited, draconian, in part illegal law and system changes in at least a generation?

    I watched Question Time in Parliament and hear endless questions asked about Novopay, affecting a small number of otherwise comparatively well paid teachers, where questions are raised about car parking and mobile phone use taxes affecting employed, mostly well earning middle-class workers, where questions are asked about charter schools, same sex marriage and a range of other issues, housing affordability for those who can afford to pay a nice deposit, but NONE about the unjust welfare reforms to be introduced this year.

    I read and listen to the bulk of the media reporting on same and similar topics and news endlessly, also about crime, traffic accidents and how some celebrities “suffer” and face personal issues, where a rugby player gets caught and arrested with a (rather large) knife in Japan, where another young rugby player gets out of hand at times due to alcoholism and alcohol abuse, where some journalists out themselves by making submissions for the same sex marriage amendment to existing law and endless other stuff, like the drought affecting farmers.

    But NADA about welfare issues and reforms, except where the odd beneficiary, or seemingly more often WINZ staff, abuse the system.

    There is little if none coming from the so-called “opposition”, there is zilch in the press, there is a lack of interest by the middle class of professionals, wanting support for their causes (teachers, doctors, nurses, childcare providers, professional workers), but offering NO support for the poorest and least powerful in NZ society.

    National is still supported by most of them, and there is a UNITE Union, that proclaims to also be there for those without jobs (i.e. beneficiaries), but I hear damned little from Matt McCarten on welfare reform and the likes. So that is the left in NZ, is it? The only consolation I get is some commenting here showing understanding and support, but society has written beneficiaries off as bludgers, dodgers, free-loaders, bene cheats and malingerers bullying doctors to give the medical certs to go on benefits.

    NO solidarity from me to all those middle class do well people, coming with their petty stuff, Thanks for nothing!

    • johnm 12.1

      Xtasy
      +1 🙂

      • xtasy 12.1.1

        It is my ANGRY voice, trying to represent the growing UNDERCLASS and DISENTITLED in NZ! That in includes the working poor, although many of them sadly jump on the envy train, raising anger against beneficiaries (see also Shearer’s sickness bene roofpainter comments, trying to appeal to those).

        • Tim 12.1.1.1

          “…… although many of them sadly jump on the envy train…..”
          Indeed they do – right up until the time they’re made redundant and have to suffer WINZ for a wee while. Sometimes they even regret all that ‘nothing to pay for 12 months’ or ‘first 12 months interest free’ shit they signed up for.

    • Yeah Xtasy you are not alone. UNITE Waitemata Branch has a useful fb page fighting for unemployed and beneficiaries which draws comments and contributions from across the country.

      The NACTs policy is to stigmatise beneficiaries as an underclass to shift the blame for their rip, shit, bust policies onto their ‘dependency’ on working class taxpayers, and shame them into workfare.

      The solution is to organise unemployed as self-help collectives to take direct action against their victimisation, punishment and deprivation. They must not be forced to compete for the few jobs there are driving down wages for all workers.

      Individuals cannot fight alone without exhausting themselves, we need a UNION of unemployed and beneficiaries urgently.

      https://www.facebook.com/groups/105132832866402/?fref=ts
      https://www.facebook.com/unite.waitemata?fref=ts

      • xtasy 12.2.1

        On the main news on TVNZ and TV3 tonight:

        The “Hobbit” has led to more US visitors, and Marmite is back on our supermarket shelves.

        Yeah, wonderful, NZ is doing well.

        Re beneficiaries: NO MENTION, NO WELFARE REFORM COVERAGE, so the message is: “Stop moaning, shut up, get a job and a f***ing life. Otherwise we will dig a big hole, shoot you and dig you under”. Not worth mentioning in the news, that is for sure.

        Love Bennett, love Aotearoa NatACT style, yeah right.

      • xtasy 12.2.2

        red rattler:

        You have a valid message, but who hears it, who listens to it, who takes action?

        Sad truth is, most unemployed and other beneficiaries do not even know what these new reforms are all about. They have no information, as the media treats these developments as a “non event”, as most NZers battling every day have a totally dim view of beneficiaries. It is a bit like the plague, keep it well away from me, so I and my family or close ones are kept from infection of this negative shit.

        Many are also ostriches, digging deep, to bury their heads under the sand. I do not want to hear, know or learn more about what may be in store if I cannot keep up battling to keep the ship afloat, that is the thinking. It is everyone against each other, me first, stuff the rest and do not think of tomorrow, as it may bring bad news.

        It is time for a social and economic breakdown, so ALL get a taste of when the shit hits the fan, that is my only conclusion about what is going on. Sorry, I am sick to death of what goes on.

    • AsleepWhileWalking 12.3

      +1 Yeah!

      • Descendant Of Sssmith 12.3.1

        No use looking to Labour. Their welfare policy consists of raising the super age.

  13. Pascal's bookie 13

    John Key enjoying the benefits of sponsorship:

    http://t.co/cur6A1DN7x

    • infused 13.1

      More like Mad Butcher trying to get some free face time.

      • Pascal's bookie 13.1.1

        John Key’s office tweeted it infused. The funny part is, well, all of it ackshully.

        • karol 13.1.1.1

          What next? Sponsored speeches in the House?

        • infused 13.1.1.2

          Yeah, old mad butcher has a lot of friends though.

          • North 13.1.1.2.1

            I hear it about that he’s lost alot of friends, and respect too, in the league world that is.
            Since he started his assiduous burrowing up Key’s nether. Having spent years doing the same in relation to HC’s nether.

            Still, thanks be for his philanthropy and thanks be to whomsoever gave him his honorific. I guess there’s a sort of ongoing balance to it all.

            • Tim 13.1.1.2.1.1

              Seems like Karol’s THE BLUE ROSE cotribution (below) might rhyme with “THE BROWN NOSE”, written, produced and directed by whoever was in flavour at the time, and critiqued positively by Jum Mora and a ‘panel’.
              (Oz parliament has become more interesting when it comes to background noise)

    • Te Reo Putake 13.2

      Looks photoshopped to me. The ‘John Key’ on the shirt, in particular.

    • xtasy 13.3

      Key a “beneficiary”? Huuuh, aghast, get him a damned job then, a real job, like digging dung on a pig farm then!

  14. karol 14

    I have been watching the TV3 NZ drama The Blue Rose. Last night one of the main villains (Petersen) was shown to be the head of a company doing frakking and paying off, behind closed doors, a worker who got severely injured in the destructive enterprise. The heroine, the show’s “moral compass” was opposed and shown to be a Greenpeace supporter, Jane March (Antoonia Prebble)..

  15. Draco T Bastard 15

    6 Big Takeaways From The RNC’s Incredible 2012 Autopsy
    It’s rather interesting but the one that caught my eye was number 4. Epistemic Closure Is Real:

    There’s been a long running debate on the intellectual right about whether the GOP suffers from “epistemic closure,” a condition in which conservatives block out all dissenting voices until eventually their own arguments sound nonsensical to anyone who doesn’t already agree with them. The RNC report concludes this is a real and growing problem.

    Which explains why the right sound so disconnected from reality – because they are. They seem to, quite literally, live in an echo chamber.

  16. ghostrider888 16

    Jude 10
    Yet these men speak abusively against whatever they do not understand; and what things they do understand by instinct, like unreasoning animals-these are the very things that destroy them.

  17. Draco T Bastard 17

    Trading without money? Why a new system can address the economic spiral

    This monetary system also means that although individually we might pay off our debts, collectively we are in debt forever, paying interest to the banks. So this money system makes increasing inequality a mathematical certainty. Is it any wonder that 2% of the world’s population controls about half the world’s wealth?

    Whether in business, investment, philanthropy, or politics, there are few more important, less understood and less pursued objectives today than monetary reform. It is time to direct more of our time and resources to the underlying causes of our multiple crises, and swiftly learn about the pros and cons of alternative systems.

    Our monetary system, which is based upon debt, needs growth so that it can be maintained. Without that growth the whole system collapses. The problem is that we cannot grow infinitely on a finite world. Monetary reform is something that needs to happen if we want a sustainable economy.

    Our financial system is, slowly but surely, killing us.

    • bad12 18.1

      Not a bad effort??? what a load of s**t, by Friday with luck Slippery’s National Government will be able to gloat that 10% of New Zealander’s (mum and dads snigger), will have preregistered in an effort to steal half of Mighty River Power off of the other 90% of New Zealander’s who haven’t registered an interest in such legislated thievery,

      So 10% of the New Zealand public are going to purchase 49% of Mighty River Power are they, hah watch Slippery and Co flog it off to overseas interests and call that a success…

      • chris73 18.1.1

        I’ve pre-registered

      • Daveosaurus 18.1.2

        I wonder how many of them are multiple registrations from Tories who have fradulently signed up everyone they know to the scheme…

        • bad12 18.1.2.1

          My belief is that if you have a KiwiSaver account with a private provider you should read the fine print,

          You will find among the blah blah blah that you have signed an agreement which says that from time to time your provider will buy and sell shares in any company on your behalf without specifically notifying you of the actions taken,

          i am of the opinion that a large number of KiwiSaver providers have signed up a large number of their customers using such a provision..

      • millsy 18.1.3

        Overseas v local ownership is a red herring.

        Power company ownership should belong in the public sector. Plenty of other companies in the stock market for investors to put their cash in without eyeing up the public and co-op sector.

        Fletcher Building sounds good.

    • The Al1en 18.2

      Depends on how many traitors there are

    • Descendant Of Sssmith 18.3

      Never a truer word spoken by the finance industry

      “The partial-listing of the state owned energy generator and retailer again has made headlines after it was revealed institutional investors had been privy to a number of research reports from brokerages involved in the deal.

      Meanwhile retail investors, who stand first in line to buy the shares, are still waiting for the official prospectus and investment statement to be released about the middle of next month.

      A source in the investment community, who asked not to be named, said the reports appeared to be based on information that was mostly available in the public arena and were a typical part of pre-IPO marketing activities. The reports put the price range at between $2.36 and $3.06 though this is not indicative of final pricing, such is subject to the Government’s final sign off.

      The only non-public information appeared to be MRP’s financial estimates for 2013 and 2014, but these would come out when the investment statement and prospectus were released.

      “There’s three months of heavy petting that goes on before anything happens (on these deals) and we are well in the heavy petting phase,” the source said.”

      Apart from the sexualisation of the selling of shares which seems bizarre at best, the natural conversational tone shows what they in the industry really think about mum and dad investors and the general public.

      Touch em up and then screw them over can be the only conclusion you can draw from such a statement.

      You can just see the smarmy bastards laughing.

      • ghostrider888 18.3.1

        FFS

      • xtasy 18.3.2

        “Touch em up and then screw them over can be the only conclusion you can draw from such a statement.”

        Your are so right, and since even the huge share crash in 1987, many NZers still have not learned how to invest carefully and smartly.

        What may happen is a sudden awareness of home energy savings, alternative, home based energy generation, solar and wind generation on site taking off, and the power companies can say good night, and the investors flush their shares down the toilet, like it happened with certain other “investments” in shares years ago.

    • prism 19.1

      ghost Scary stuff in Chch. I wonder what Gerry Brownlee has up his sleeve (apart from his arm) to cope with these sort of problems that could be expected for months after the earthquake but have turned into years and getting worse.

      • ghostrider888 19.1.1

        very sad and worrying indeed prism; have a great day yourself though.
        Peace Be With You All 🙂

    • Draco T Bastard 19.2

      Quoting first link:

      A registered cancer charity has donated less than 5 per cent of the $1.1 million it has collected from New Zealanders over four years.

      The Department of Internal Affairs has launched a review of the Cancer Research Charitable Trust, which pays its staff a commission of up to 40 per cent to collect funds and hand out information door-to-door.

      The trust’s financial records show it has donated $48,563.25 towards cancer research between July 2007 and June 2011 – only 4.2 per cent of the $1.1 million it received.

      And that is pretty much why charity doesn’t actually work. It has to actually pay for the administration that it needs but it’s also open to abuse by that administration.

  18. prism 20

    I referred to rural attitudes of young men to the law and continuing bad behaviour in Amnesty 17/13 at 5:42 pm.

    Rural Women are running a study getting opinions on the ground. I think they are wise to take an interest in this. Especially since they are under-policed and vulnerable and unprotected from any criminal element in their area that will utilise violence. It is thought that much crime is not reported.
    http://www.ruralwomen.org/_blog/News_and_Inspiration/post/Rural_Crime_and_Safety_Survey/

    Now a road worker has been shot. Whatever the reason it adds a dark stain on the mindset of rural people in general, though probably a man (and not necessarily young as I notice a surprising number of 40 and 50 year olds are behaving criminally).

    What’s wrong in farming country – why too many parents’ inability to teach their boys self-control, moral values, and respect for others. The Macdonald man didn’t seem to have learned good behaviour while a boy. Are the fathers bad role models, or don’t they have a relationship with their children so they can provide good guidance on handling life’s difficulties without meanness, law breaking and/or violence? An example of mean and aggressive attitudes was a blogger in Amnesty who was banned for his foul language. Their animals behave better.

  19. risildowgtn 22

    On the facebook there is a growing number of people pre registering for shares with no of attempt to follow through & buy….

    I have considered doing the same………

  20. AsleepWhileWalking 23

    10 examples of why you really don’t need to pay for digital tv below – legal. Why is it that the music industry can’t just follow their example and adapt to the changing environment? Why is their business model OUR responsibility?

    http://www.makeuseof.com/tag/yes-you-can-watch-tv-online-legally-and-for-free/

    • infused 23.1

      You’re really only paying for convenience…

      • Tim 23.1.1

        Exactery….. which is why I’ve suggested elsewhere, a regime whereby anything TRANSMITTED as unencrypted, should not be re-broadcast in an ENCRYPTED format.
        (Ooops, there goes a shitlaod of SKY’s convenience …. and I’m sure they’ll be moaning like squealing pigs in heat when there’s a gubbamint change.

        • Tim 23.1.1.1

          Actually, were this so, welcome back Freeview, saving the encrypted for ummm ‘diversity’.

  21. Morrissey 25

    The worst public service appointment since Christine (Spankin’) Rankin

    This one is really going to raise a racket.

    More on this tomorrow. (Have to run right now.)

    I’m sure y’all know who I’m talking about.

  22. karol 26

    Patrick Gower’s (Freudian) blooper on 3 News tonight. I had set myfreeview onto “pause live TV” then played it, so I could wind back to check what I heard (twice):. On the GCSB issue, Gower definitely said:

    “Labour said it’s a stuff up, Key says it’s a cover up”.

    But the print version has it the other way around.

    • idlegus 26.1

      i heard that! was brilliant, i hope someone puts it up at youtube.

    • xtasy 26.2

      GOWER is a “cowering” idiot, overpaid and overrated. He would not have such a job outside of “underskilled”, “under alert” NZ (audience).

  23. ghostrider888 27

    overheard on the Q.T today;
    Joyce : on the Open Bank Resolution; evades amount; however, concedes “exports growth has come off.”

    Q.2-just dynamite.

    Smith : wants new land development in AK on :” a non-notifiable basis”

    Bennett : “get (a graduate) “work ready”
    (quotes NZ Herald editorial from last year to justify policy) ??? (great Minister Nat; keep it up)
    MOH-” we expect negative impacts on children from financial sanctions” (thanks Jac.)
    Speaker is “bringing the house into disorder.”

    Key : “GCSB got it wrong.”

    Brownlee ” “allegations of fraud and corruption have been forwarded to his office” (for consumption, no doubt) (est. 130-240M-Winston.)

    sadly, Maori Party Leadership = farce; ego ego ego (mofo bulls*it as Hone would exclaim).


    on the run

    • karol 27.1

      Yes, I was pretty disgusted at Bennett, with a straight face, using a Herald editorial to justify her policy while ignoring expert advice.

      And on the disorder caused by the Speaker:

      Dr Russel Norman: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I agree with you that it has become very noisy. I would argue the key problem is that the decision or the ruling of Speaker Smith that a straight question gets a straight answer is no longer being upheld under your new Speakership. That is creating disorder.

      Mr SPEAKER: Order! That is now questioning the competence and the bias of the Speaker. That is very serious. I am attempting to elicit sensible answers for members, but on many occasions members are wanting the answer designed to their satisfaction. That is not what question time is. The question must be addressed, but it will not necessarily mean that the question at all times will be answered to the satisfaction of the member asking the questions.

      Hon Trevor Mallard: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I want to agree with what Dr Norman said, but to make it clear that no one—and I do not think Dr Norman did—attributed bias to you. What he indicated what was that there is a different set of rulings, and they are quite different.

      Mr SPEAKER: I accept there are certainly different styles. From the moment you have a different Speaker, you will have a different style.

      More Nat spin – it’s not a different style, it’s incompetence.

    • xtasy 27.2

      ghostrider888:

      Yeah, QT reveals some interesting bits, every time! Sadly so few bother watching and dissecting it. It would assist “informed voting” if the wider public would watch it.

  24. lprent 28

    Main server is getting a bit of a hammering at present (pretty freakingly high bearing in mind that most of the load gets handled at cloudflare). Looks like a rather large overseas audience.

    Probably will be a bit slow for a while particularly posting comments.

    • lprent 28.1

      Facebook on Helen Kelly’s post. 10 minutes for the last 500 referrals.

      She did say she was going to do something special with it…

      Looks like Cloudflare is doing its job and has largely loaded its servers whereever it is getting picked up from. Back above 50% idle.

    • Anne 28.2

      Hi 1prent.

      Don’t know how it happened but I was surfing through today’s comments on Open Mike when I inadvertently found myself reading stuff from a Standard post on the15th July last year (2012). What astonished me were two comments that were supposedly submitted by me that most definitely didn’t come from me. They were totally outside my sphere of thinking yet the gravator was mine. Is that possible? Could someone steal my identity and post in my name? Truly weird.

      So weird in fact I’m wondering if I imagined it, but I didn’t.

  25. xtasy 30

    In Parliament’s question time today, Russel Norman, and supported by Peters and that Christchurch member from Labour, asked some tricky questions to the Finance Minister, represented by Steven Joyless of course. It was about open banking policies, and some new agenda for NZ banks, or those operating here.

    So Joyce was diverting, dodging questions and did the big bow of answering, and the useless Speaker let him get away with it. Like with other questions before, the Nat benches clearly enjoyed the session, as “their” Speaker was letting their ministers off the hook all the time.

    But nevertheless, while there is this discussion about bank depositors in Cyprus facing losing up to 10 per cent of deposits, to “bail out” their banks, indeed Joyce at least indirectly admitted the same could happen here.

    Not being able to draw on the full amounts of money deposited is exactly that, but Joyce did not want to give a straight answer, he implied it, yet explained, this would not happen to all those good banks here in NZ. Winston challenged him on another proposal he made 2008, to ensure up to 100 k in NZ owned banks, but Joyce said that other banks would be robbed if that was the plan. So he justified the foreign owned, robbery like banking system that controls the bulk of lending in NZ.

  26. xtasy 31

    I propose now that NZ Parliament will be renamed the “National Parliament”, to bring it into line with the true spirit of the new Speaker and his regime. He did today, that is Wednesday, just now, let off so many ministers from the government’s benches, with giving crap answers, that in many cases were not real answers at all, but he hit out at any opposition questioner who asked and objected to not being answered. If anybody is bringing NZ Parliament into disrepute, I think that Mr Carter needs to stand in front of a mirror and ask himself some bloody serious questions.

    “This is not a good look”, Bill English once admitted, re another matter. But the same comment is justified in this matter, for sure.

  27. xtasy 32

    Victor Jara, cantador de la revolution the Chile, viva!

  28. xtasy 33

    VIVA el Che!

  29. xtasy 34

    Cabral – bueno and “interesting”.

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    The CivilianBy admin
    2 weeks ago
  • Has Mr. Whippy gone too far by parking on our front lawns?
    Mr. Whippy’s business model has driven it down a dark road of intimidation. Residents in major centres around the country are becoming disgruntled by the increasingly aggressive actions of purported ice cream company Mr. Whippy, who have taken to parking on people’s front lawns and doorsteps in a desperate attempt ...
    The CivilianBy admin
    2 weeks ago
  • Cleaning up the water
    Today the government released its Action Plan for Healthy Waterways, aimed at cleaning up our lakes and rivers. Its actually quite good. There will be protection for wetlands, better standards for swimming spots, a requirement for continuous improvement, and better standards for wastewater and stormwater. But most importantly, there's a ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 weeks ago
  • Fronting up
    Today I appeared before the Environment Committee to give an oral submission on the Zero Carbon Bill. Over 1,500 people have asked to appear in person, so they've divided into subcommittees and are off touring the country, giving people a five minute slot each. The other submitters were a mixed ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 weeks ago
  • Politics of science – making a silk purse out of a sow’s ear
    Anti-fluoride activists have some wealthy backers – they are erecting billboards misrepresenting the Canadian study on many New Zealand cities – and local authorities are ordering their removal because of their scaremongering. Many New Zealanders ...
    2 weeks ago
  • Democracy – I Don’t Think So
    So, those who “know best” have again done their worst. While constantly claiming to be the guardians of democracy and the constitution, and respecters of the 2016 referendum result, diehard Remainers (who have never brought themselves to believe that their advice could have been rejected) have striven might and main ...
    Bryan GouldBy Bryan Gould
    2 weeks ago
  • Government says it will now build just one really nice home
    Following publication of this article, the Ministry has requested it to be noted that this supplied image is not necessarily representative of what the final house will look like, and it “probably won’t be that nice.” As part of today’s long-anticipated reset of the Government’s flagship KiwiBuild policy, Housing Minister ...
    The CivilianBy admin
    2 weeks ago
  • Imperialism and your cup of coffee
    Over the next week or two we will be running three synopses of parts of the opening chapter of John Smith’s Imperialism in the 21st Century (New York, Monthly Review Press, 2016).  The synopsis and commentary below is written by Phil Duncan. Marx began Capital not with a sweeping historical ...
    RedlineBy Admin
    2 weeks ago
  • Still juking the stats
    The State Services Commission and Ombudsman have released another batch of OIA statistics, covering the last six months. Request volumes are up, and the core public service is generally handling them within the legal timeframe, though this may be because they've learned to extend rather than just ignore things. And ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 weeks ago
  • Hard News: Time for a New Deal: 25 years on
    In 1994, I was editing an ambitious street mag called Planet, from a fabled office at at 309 Karangahape Road. The thirteenth issue of the magazine was published in the winter of that year and its cover embodied a particularly ambitious goal: the end of cannabis prohibition.I wanted to do ...
    2 weeks ago
  • Not impressed
    KiwiBuild was one of the Ardern government's core policies. The government would end the housing crisis and make housing affordable again by building 100,000 new homes. Of course, it didn't work out like that: targets weren't met, the houses they did build were in the wrong place, and the whole ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 weeks ago
  • Solar beats coal
    As the climate crisis escalates, it is now obvious that we need to radically decarbonise our economy. The good news is that its looking easy and profitable for the energy sector. Wind is already cheaper than fossil fuels, and now solar is too:The levellised cost of solar PV has fallen ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 weeks ago
  • A Step Too Far.
    A Crown Asset? For reasons relating to its own political convenience, the Crown pretends to believe that “No one owns the water.” To say otherwise would re-vivify the promises contained in the Treaty of Waitangi – most particularly those pertaining to the power of the chiefs and their proprietary rights ...
    2 weeks ago
  • Where Money Comes From
    Most people would say, no doubt, that they have a pretty good idea of what money is. They live with the reality of money every day. It is what is needed to buy the necessities of life and to maintain a decent standard of living. You get money, they would ...
    Bryan GouldBy Bryan Gould
    2 weeks ago
  • Banned by the Green Party leadership: Jill Abigail on women’s rights and trans rights
    The article below was an opinion piece that appeared in the Spring 2019 issue of Te Awa (the NZ Green Party’s newsletter) and on the Greens website.  In keeping with their policy of hostility to women defending women’s right to female-only spaces, Green bureaucrats have since removed the opinion piece.  ...
    RedlineBy Admin
    2 weeks ago
  • The fallacy of the proximity argument.
    Longer term readers may remember my complaining that, as a political scientist, it is burdensome to have non-political scientists wanting to engage me about politics. No layperson would think to approach an astrophysicist and lecture him/her on the finer details of quarks and black holes, but everybody with an opinion ...
    KiwipoliticoBy Pablo
    2 weeks ago
  • Where We Stood: Chris Trotter Replies To Stevan Eldred-Grigg.
    Joining The Fight: Stevan Eldred-Grigg's argument for New Zealand staying out of the Second World War fails not only on the hard-headed grounds of preserving the country’s strategic and economic interests; and not just on the soft-hearted grounds of duty and loyalty to the nation that had given New Zealand ...
    2 weeks ago
  • Universities back the climate strike
    On September 27, School Strike 4 Climate will be striking for a future to pressure the government for meaningful climate action. This time, they've asked adults to join them. And now, Lincoln University and Victoria University of Wellington have signed on:Victoria University of Wellington has joined Lincoln University in endorsing ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 weeks ago

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