Open mike 20/08/2015

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, August 20th, 2015 - 128 comments
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openmikeOpen mike is your post.

For announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose. The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the Policy).

Step up to the mike …

128 comments on “Open mike 20/08/2015 ”

  1. stever 1

    Investment bank for NZ too? Sidelski makes the case for such things….

    …and it would ours, rather than this

    which seems to be about being the member for another club, for $125 million!

    • Draco T Bastard 1.1

      Investment bank for NZ too?

      Real Monetary Reform

      Most importantly, as money would be openly directly created by the government to bring about the use of the countries resources as needed it would obviate the need for savings and foreign investment. It would also decrease the government borrowings to zero as they would no longer need to borrow which would eliminate the billions of dollars wasted in interest that the government presently pays out yearly.

      Our entire monetary system is fucked as it’s designed to make a few people richer without them actually having to do anything.

      And, yeah, that Asian investment bank is just of the same failed system.

      • aerobubble 1.1.1

        Freeloading. Owning a home in several global capital cities and curtailing the muliplier effort of taking those resources out of the local economy. All because Thatcherites discovered that media repeating the lie adnausium , that while civil society builds the engine, and cheapening high dense middle east fuels powered the engine, only a rather extreme now disreputable political economic view created the inevitable market growth. I.e they called dibs on the diving seat while siliencing civil society and claimg growth as proof for their politicial economic non-runner ideology. Thirty years later, climbing debt levels, climate disruption, and a chronical unfit global economy lacking balancing forums to deal as one species. And worse, now the Marxists have been given their day, neo-libs are communist infiltraters, having the luxuries of wealth while corrupting capalism from within. Why does the US Republician party hate capialism so much?

      • Colonial Viper 1.1.2

        And, yeah, that Asian investment bank is just of the same failed system.


        For starters it is not dominated by the US and western European powers.

        Smart move for NZ to be a founding member.

        • Draco T Bastard

          No, it’ll be dominated by China.

          Such a system is not needed and is, IMO, part of the reason why we’re having such problems as anthropogenic climate change. They push growth but prevent development because of the need to pay interest.

          • Colonial Rawshark

            No, it’ll be dominated by China.

            Well, China has the sole veto because of the size of its contribution, but I think it will very rarely use it. In essence, the AIIB has been set up to be far more democratic and apolitical than the World Bank or the IMF, which is one reason why 56 countries joined it so quickly.

            • Draco T Bastard

              Well, China has the sole veto because of the size of its contribution, but I think it will very rarely use it.

              But it will use it whereas an independent investment bank in each country supplying all the money that that country needs is not under that power.

              In essence, the AIIB has been set up to be far more democratic and apolitical than the World Bank or the IMF, which is one reason why 56 countries joined it so quickly.

              But it’s still just a copy of the present failed system.

  2. Tautoko Mangō Mata 2

    This article gives an interesting insight into how the TPPA is being written and who has the influence.

    “The big media lobbyists’ theatrics over this minor amendment are embarrassing, but they do raise one important issue: our trade negotiators are a lot less interested in the needs of ordinary users and creators than the needs of powerful companies. Why else was a last-minute intervention by Google sufficient to bring the USTR back to the negotiating table on this topic, where the sustained interventions of EFF and 10 other major public interest groups from around the world were not?”

    I love one of the comments below re the public stakeholders being ignored.:
    “It is our pie that they are carving up. Why would we be invited to it?”

  3. dv 3

    Police face $20m bill for child sex offenders register

    Apparently the whole job is to cost 60million, and the police are to find the other 20 mill.

    WHY does it cost 60m to set up the new database?

    Maybe 1m?

  4. Heisenbug 4

    Hello everyone, I do hope this is the correct place to post this question/comment combo…

    I just saw an ad for Radio Live on YouTube, selling the “balanced” reporting the media is currently so fond of. It is just a mash up of the Radio Live personalities telling us what we’d miss out on if they didn’t give all opinions equal weight regardless of merit.

    It opens with Hilary Barry asking “Can you imagine how dull the world would be if we all thought the same?” and is followed by the rest of the team giving us such gems as:

    “There would only be one shop.”

    There would only be one colour There’d be no colour” (sorry Physics)

    And my favourite:

    “There’d be no debate on climate change.”

    Is this sort of thing new? I usually use an ad blocker so I haven’t seen it before. I did not realise they were publicly spouting fallacious arguments to support rubbish journalism.

    [lprent: Updated to fix a transcription error on the commenter’s request. ]

    P.s. Any excuse to link John Oliver:

    • One Anonymous Bloke 4.1

      Any chance of a link to the ad? Choice handle 🙂

      • Heisenbug 4.1.1

        Ah, I’m not sure how to link to an ad, but I did grab it off YouTube before it finished, so I have a copy.

        Check it out here:

        • weka

          I’d be tempted to say that the debate on climate change is now about what to do (not whether it’s real), but then I see they had Sean Plunkett giving it as an example.

          • Heisenbug

            Wouldn’t it be super if the only debate we were having on climate change was what to do about it.

            • weka

              It’s pretty much the only conversation I’m willing to have about it 😉

              (more seriously, I can see the time approaching where I will have no tolerance for talk about what to do, given we know what to do and should just be doing it).

          • Morrissey

            The debate about climate change is as valid as the debate about the earth being round or flat, or the debate about whether the moon landing was a hoax or not.

            And it’s the same people who treat it seriously.

        • One Anonymous Bloke


          So I wonder if this is the new lie from denier trash: that they’re performing a public service?

    • tc 4.2

      Balanced reporting like paddy’s piece on the appalling Newsworthy last night which btw looks like an episode of ‘Cops’ more so than a news show.

      Little had a soundbite about farming incidents being high then followed by Gower throwing numbers about without any context, averages etc inferring Little had it wrong.

      Overt bias on display, if little was in fact wrong there’d be wave after wave of graphs and stats but no just Pants on fire Paddy and his questionable use of numbers.

    • Heisenbug 4.3

      Is it possible to edit comments after the timer has expired? I misquoted:

      “There would only be one colour” should be “There’d be no colour”.

      [lprent: Nope (FFS it is something like eight minutes). However I will change it for you. ]

      • Heisenbug 4.3.1

        Thanks Lynn. For the record, the edit time is something less than how long it takes to rebuild my projects in Eclipse. You know what I mean 🙂

        • lprent

          Well there is half of your problem. Use a make and a -j 7 or the equivalent on your compiler. Compile on n-1 cores.

          • Heisenbug

            Thank you, wise one. Please lay upon me your solution to the other half of my problem, with at least as many assumptions.

            • lprent

              😈 They are assumptions. But few things take that long to compile any more unless you’re doing a lot of variants or cross compiles.

              The worst one I have at present is some old C/C++ code that gets compiled in a redhat9 system (ie circa 2002) in a VM on a version of gcc/g++ that only handles a single core. It is about 500k lines and takes about 5 minutes from scratch. Fortunately it doesn’t have templates.

              • Heisenbug

                Nailed it 🙂

                Three projects, three platforms, two graphics libraries (compiled from source, obv.), and a two core CPU on a laptop with a fragmented 1TB SATA. Nice and warm in here though.

                Release day!

    • Draco T Bastard 4.4

      It opens with Hilary Barry asking “Can you imagine how dull the world would be if we all thought the same?”

      Hah, that’s amusing because according to National that’s exactly what we do. It’s the total premise that National Standards are based upon and why they fail.

      “There would only be one shop.”

      Well, we’re not quite there – we duopoly instead.

      “There’d be no debate on climate change.”

      So, I wonder what debate they’re having with their navel hair because you can’t debate climate change as you simply can’t debate facts.

      • Heisenbug 4.4.1

        It makes me uneasy how proud they all seem to be about it, they must know what they are doing is wrong… right?

        • One Anonymous Bloke

          Don’t count on it. There’s a reason they’re journalists rather than say, engineers.

  5. Bearded Git 5

    Even Granny Herald says McCully should be stood down. He is in big trouble.

    • freedom 5.1

      We can’t see what the public say on the matter of course, because the NZ Herald has again been attacked by gremlins.
      The recurrence of this very strange tech issue must be a real headache for them. Once again, despite the number of comments ‘published’ (currently 18) being clearly stated on the home page and the”Politics” section page, once you get to the actual article…. no comments are visible.

      It must be so infuriating for the Herald that this keeps happening and so unlucky it only seems to occur on articles that include distinctly negative discussion points on the National Government.

      • Draco T Bastard 5.1.1

        They’re there for me. This is the first one:

        “The Prime Minister says none of the advice the Government received suggested it would be illegal.”

        when david cunliffe used a trust to handle his campaign for party leader it was perfectly legal, nevertheless he was pilloried for it.

        another example of dirty politics, key and his cronies have not a shred of honour amongst the lot of them. they will use every means at their disposal, honest or not, to gull the public.

        how anyone can continue to support someone who lies and prevaricates the way this one does is beyond me.

        By Cathy

        • freedom

          and minutes later, as if by magic, the comments appear – interactive media, gotta love it 😆

        • b waghorn

          “”how anyone can continue to support someone who lies and prevaricates the “”
          That!! Is the how I feel ,if some one thinks pure capitalism is the way forward I can live with it, but to support this rogues gallery of a political party Lead by a lying sick bully makes me wonder at the morals of the average kiwi.

    • Draco T Bastard 5.2

      At least, we hope it was: the idea that departments commonly have spare cash that can be spent without Treasury approval in this way does not bear thinking.

      It’s not up to Treasury to give approval for spending. That’s the government’s job.

      The scheme to relocate a sheep breeding operation from New Zealand to Saudi Arabia went ahead for other reasons, which will come within the Auditor-General’s inquiry this time.

      It’s those ‘other reasons’ that are the concern as all indications are that the spend up on the Saudi Sheep Deal were a bribe.

      The Prime Minister says none of the advice the Government received suggested it would be illegal.

      The PM is a liar and I’m sure that we do have some laws that cover it but we obviously need stronger laws against such corruption.

      If a well-connected Saudi investor’s grievance of the live export ban was obstructing a free trade agreement, it makes sense to offer a settlement.

      No, there is never any excuse for such corruption.

      • miravox 5.2.1

        “The Prime Minister says none of the advice the Government received suggested it would be illegal.”

        I note the word legal doesn’t appear in front of the word advice. Tricky Prime Minister.

  6. john key “”I don’t get respect because I’m Prime Minister of New Zealand but I hopefully earn respect because people think I do a good job.”–john-key

    You are a zero respect monkey

    • Pat 6.1

      no mention of honesty or integrity I note

    • Undecided 6.2

      Three election wins is probably a good indicator of the respect in which hes held

      • marty mars 6.2.1

        lol – good one unde

        • Undecided

          Well its fair to say that there was a failry large proportion of NZ voters who didn’t like Helen Clarks on screen image (though I understand shes perfectly charming away from the camera) but she had definately had respect so quite similar to John Key in this instance

          • marty mars

            nah not even close – I liked a fair chunk of Helen Clark as PM but there were severe lapses imo. Key is just a mindless bumbling liar that should be ashamed of himself but lacks the self awareness to even consider how dull and dim he is.

            • Undecided

              but lacks the self awareness to even consider how dull and dim he is

              and therein lies the major problem with the left in regards to John Key, consistantly underestimating him

              • McFlock

                I always underestimate how much he crumbles when he faces competent reviews from impartial media, like overseas interviewers or just his behaviour summarised by John Oliver (three times in the past year, more than Zimbabwe ffs).

                I’m not so sure that we need better wingnuts.
                I reckon the wingnuts need better heroes.

    • weka 6.3

      john key “”I don’t get respect because I’m Prime Minister of New Zealand but I hopefully earn respect because people think I do a good job.”

      Well that explains why he treats the PM role with such disdain and doesn’t mind making us a laughing stock via it.

  7. whateva next? 7, which I posted last night, but very relevant to “respect”for John Key, and how Paul Henry was made to see the light. (for a split second)

    • Draco T Bastard 7.1

      The end bit where the guy interviewed refused to say if John Key was a psychopath it was obvious that that was exactly what he thought John Key was 😈

    • Heisenbug 7.2

      That was interesting, thanks for posting. Loved the moment when Henry conceded the point on which personality type you’d rather have running a country.

      • whateva next? 7.2.1

        If only that was on Seven Sharp too, might wake people up and I wouldn’t have to listen the same old answer when I ask people why they like Key…”He’s got charisma” Gawd!

  8. Jim in Tokyo 8

    Australian Govt, for all their evils, getting serious about foreign investment in residential real estate, including real estate transfer register (#8) residential property money laundering crackdown (#11) and criminal penalties for locals who act as agents to help foreign investors circumvent the prohibition on the purchase of existing properties (#5).

  9. joe90 9

    Jane Clifton on Key dodging the question.

    edit: the question transferred to Bennett.

    ANDREW LITTLE to the Associate Minister of Finance: Does she stand by the Prime Minister’s statement that “I’d hate to see New Zealanders as tenants in their own country”; if so, how many applications by overseas investors to buy land were declined under the Overseas Investment Act 2005 between January 2012 and June 2015?

    Question No. 3 to Minister

    ANDREW LITTLE (Leader of the Opposition): I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. This question was originally set down for the Prime Minister, and I therefore seek leave for the House to have the question transferred back to the Prime Minister.

    Mr SPEAKER : Order! No. I refer the member to Speaker’s ruling 169/5. I am not prepared to put the leave. It is the prerogative of the Government to decide whom the question goes to. It has made that decision. If the member wants to continue asking it as it is on the Order Paper, he can do so.

    • ianmac 9.1

      Noted that in QT yesterday, Mr Shaw pointed out the string of National precedents when Ministers under investigation were stood down or stood themselves down. Well done James but Key just ducked. So much for open and transparent Government.

      • Draco T Bastard 9.1.1

        Dictatorships don’t work too well when open and transparent and National knows it. People become upset when they realise that the government is screwing them over.

    • freedom 9.2

      CHRIS HIPKINS (Labour—Rimutaka): I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. The point of order is this: it is the tension that the Opposition finds between asking general primary questions and more specific primary questions. What we are endeavouring to do now in most of our questions—rather than asking “Does he stand by all of his statements?”—is actually be more specific and give an indication of the direction of travel of the supplementary questions. The risk of doing this is that now, under this arrangement, the Prime Minister could, in fact, answer next to no questions, because as soon as we give an indication of the nature of the question, he has grounds to transfer it.

      (bold mine)

      For some time The Speaker and Ministers of the Government have been actively promoting more detailed primary questions from the Opposition and this is the end result they wanted. The Opposition have two choices, ask specific questions and helplessly watch them get transferred from the PM, or be forced to waste supplementary questions by asking what should be primary questions.

      Not forgetting of course by not having specifics outlayed in the primary, the PM can forever answer the more detailed supplementaries with “I don’t have the details… ” etc

      Meanwhile, a nomination for Most Pathetic Question Asked In Our Parliament For Quite Some Time award

      What are the benefits of returning to surplus and paying down debt?

      That gem came from Chris Bishop. What a deeply probing intellectually stimulating challenge for the Minister. A question you might expect an eager year eight social studies student to ask of the Minister during a school visit but is just so embarrassing coming from a grown adult being paid over $150,000 a year to help run our country.

      • mary_a 9.2.1

        @ freedom (9.2) – and another patsy gem that is asked just about every parliamentary session from a variety of good little dopey government back benchers, to minister of finance English … ” what can the minister tell the House about the reports he has received on the economy?” WTF????? Duh! Of course the minister is going to talk up his economic policies!

        I can just about anticipate almost every NatzKEY back bencher patsy question now, because I’ve heard the same old, same old, day in day out in Parliament so many times before. It’s just turning into a very bad Vaudeville act!

        • freedom

          They are a part of the process of QT and we all grudgingly accept that.

          No matter how good an idea it might sound, to remove the government’s allotment of questions only removes the opportunity for the rarely seen ‘question of conscience’* from a back bencher who has realised their government is a corrupt and treasonous bunch of idealogues who wouldn’t know how to find their way out of an open ended culvert.

          The government of course has a right to ask itself questions and there are [almost] reasonable grounds for many of the more ridiculous questions to its own navel, but I think it was Bishop’s inability to hide the farcically vacuous nature of the question that made this one stand out. He was sniggering to himself before he even finished asking it. And he was not the only one on the government benches doing so.

          I don’t remember any other government that has such obvious disrespect for question time, especially when asking the patsy questions.
          We all know they will be asked, but a bit more effort to hide the patsy questions’ inner inanity would be nice.

          * (if you’re gonna dream, dream big i say)

    • Ad 9.3

      Well caught Joe.

      With Key now on a slow decline, Cabinet are managing Parliamentary process to circle the wagons around him. So we will get a whole bunch more PM-puppy-and-Rugby shots.

      We are already seeing Ministers Bennett and English take far more of the media load, with Joyce way down the list and Brownlee and Smith near-invisible.

      National are subbing off their Bench with extreme game-playing smarts.

      Labour could learn some lessons here – King and Twyford have been outstanding recently, with Little making essentially no hits. Labour need to learn National’s excellent lessons and blood their bench.

  10. Blue Horsehoe 10

    Sponsored and supported by the worlds biggest criminal enterprises

    Still massively pissed at their Shinawatra puppets being removed

    Thaksin posted a message on Youtube denouncing urging his followers to reject the junta’s proposed constitution because he said it was undemocratic

    Usual suspects will be behind this atrocity

    • Blue Horsehoe 10.1

      March 10 2015

      Two men arrested following a grenade attack over the weekend in Thailand reportedly told police that the “Red Shirt” supporters of the toppled government of former prime minister Yingluck Shinawatra were planning more bomb attacks on up to 100 targets in Bangkok, a security official said.

      Yuttana said he was a member of a red-shirt group that communicated on a social network called Line, where they discussed a plot to bomb at least 100 places in the nation’s capital. Mahahin said that the targets included military armories in Chiang Mai and in the Northeast, university campuses and a temple.

      On Monday, The Bangkok Post reported that the suspects had linked the attack to former army chief and supreme commander Chaiyasit Shinawatra, a member of the Shinawatra family, led by Yingluck’s self-exiled brother Thaksin. The junta detests the family, but it has won every national election since 2001.

      Yup, these hollowed out pricks are carrying out orders and have been doing so for an eternity

      Buckle up Thailand

      • DoublePlusGood 10.1.1

        Wow, you bought some propaganda wholesale there.
        Have you not noticed that the junta has control of the media? Of course sources are going to blame the previous establishment – it suits their aims to stoke negative sentiment against red shirt groups and the Shinawatras.
        The junta would do anything to ensure there is no future election that could possibly lead to an election, that would inevitably be won by Pheu Thai or a similar successor to Thai Rak Thai aligned with the Red Shirts

        Similarly, the link to Uighur nationalists comes after pressure from China lead to the junta deciding to deport Uighurs back to China.
        It suits the junta to link the bombings to Uighur nationalists, to turn public sentiment against their call for asylum.

        In reality, the bombing could be from any number of sources – Red shirt activists, separatists from the south, Burmese refugee activists, someone trying to undermine certain junta figures or junta opponents, Uighur activists, or a bunch of random enraged people.

        While the Shinawatras are just as corrupt and criminal as the junta is, you should really apply more critical thinking than just linking them to bombings based on statements in media that is junta-controlled.

        • Blue Horseshoe

          No proganda onboarded here bro, I am very aware of the situations in Thailand as well as the history

          Given your comments about the military , it is clear you know fuck all about the situation on the ground, or how the locals feel about it

          Go on, tell me about the locals and the military

          • DoublePlusGood

            What comments about the military? I’m well aware of the respect and social standing given to the military in Thailand, and Bangkok in particular, if that is what you are getting at. What exactly of what I have said is inaccurate though?

            • Blue horseshoe

              The premise of your response was :

              controlled media

              The word Junta was used numerous times, those are your comments

              An overwhelming majority of ALL Thai people support the military

              Perhaps you can explain why that is

              • DoublePlusGood

                Well, very briefly, the military have power, they have long standing respect, they support and are supported by the monarchy, and many of the periods of dictatorship have been more stable than the surrounding periods, and plenty more, a good deal of which can be summed up as ‘this is the culture of this country’.
                None of this changes that the country is run by a military junta rather than a democratically elected government, and none of that changes that that facile attacks are being made on Uighurs and Red Shirts in the media.
                At current, it appears that there was knowledge of the attack in social media groups, and a red shirt leader had a warning of an attack and provided a warning on social media. In due course, it seems likely that the culprits will be able to be identified. It appears now that Prayuth is also playing down the Uighur theory, to his credit.

                • Blue Horsehoe

                  Much of what you wrote is solid, but there are some comments which stand out to me as a little out of place

                  None of this changes that the country is run by a military junta rather than a democratically elected government, and none of that changes that that facile attacks are being made on Uighurs and Red Shirts in the media.

                  So what it’s currently run by the Military if the Thai people are ok with that and they are providing a stability where ‘democracy’ was leading towards civil war. The Monarchy will have instructed the military to step in, that is why the military acted. 95% of Thai people support their Monarchy

                  Democracy ain’t ‘what it used to be’ , and as you point out, Thailand has been democratically rooted for ages at various times

                  What do you reckon that is ?

                  Not sure a reasoned person would call an attack on Red Shirts as facile, given what they have been involved in previously

                  Perhaps you might like to share where your bias around the Junta / Red Shirts originates

                  Sounds to me like you’re saying JUNTA = BAD , Democracy = Good

                  At current, it appears that there was knowledge of the attack in social media groups, and a red shirt leader had a warning of an attack and provided a warning on social media.

                  Social media groups were frenetic with activity and apparent warnings from some purporting to know the attack was coming

                  More warnings have also been received pertaining to coming days

                  Are you Thai, have Thai family or live in Thailand ?

                  • DoublePlusGood

                    My general problem with the junta is all that dictatorship baggage, you know, the detention of political opponents, suppression of alternative media views, enrichment of elites (admittedly going to be present regardless of who is in charge), that sort of oppression.
                    At least if there’s a democracy, people that aren’t in powerful positions get some sort of a voice.
                    I’m consistently called an unrealistic idealist, but I am always confident that a well designed democracy is better for a country, and I am confident that working towards those processes will be good for Thailand in the long term. At the moment, you only don’t have that red v yellow, poor v elites because of the military imposition in things. That conflict is not resolved, so it will just fester. I’d rather both sides have representation, involvement in political processes.

  11. esoteric pineapples 11

    Heard on National Radio (from a source I can’t remember) that they expect milk prices to improve next year. I don’t think anyone knows what is going to happen to milk prices for the next few years. The only thing we can be sure of is price volatility.

    • Colonial Viper 11.1

      This from the same people who did such a good job forecasting this years milk prices…

      Anyways I suppose $4.10/kg can be considered “improved”

    • b waghorn 11.2

      Given that fonterra had to limit what they put up to auction to get the lift in prices they got ,and combine that with the fact that dairy factories will be approaching full production in the next month or so ,I’d be very interested to know what they base there optimism on.

    • Tricledrown 11.3

      The only chance demand will increase is if their is a drought in one or more of the major producing countries.
      So far the long range forecast for NZ is El Nino on the rise.
      So Prices might go up but N Z could miss out.
      Russia allowing us to export Dairy to them is Putin Key in a precarious position with all his NATO mates.
      China’s economy is in for a long rough ride.
      So Dairy farmers Fairy tale ride is over.
      Unless you can pick up a Dairy farm at a firesale price carry no debt ,milk once a day grow all your feed without fertilizer or harvest costs.
      Dairy farming will go through a massive reorganisation.

      • Colonial Rawshark 11.3.1

        Russia allowing us to export Dairy to them is Putin Key in a precarious position with all his NATO mates.


    • Undecided 13.1

      I agree that she should be out of the spotlight though as I have as much interest in her and the crims she hangs around with as I do with the Kardashians

    • Anne 13.2

      Can’t agree with you marty mars. You must have read the story in a different light to me. It was not nasty. It was honest. And among the words was some very good advice for the young lady in question.

  12. Draco T Bastard 14

    Auckland Transport Blog

    Here’s the link to Puhoi to Warkworth business case showing it only returns 92c for every $1 spent over 40 years

    Large PDF

    You want page 50.

    And this is the story about the PPPs being shortlisted for that loss of money meaning that the loss will be even greater because PPPs are simply bad.

  13. Colonial Rawshark 15

    Are long working hours killing Kiwis?

    Strokes and heart disease are a major killer in NZ. And working longer hours seems to greatly bump up the risk of suffering from them.

    The likely toll of long working hours is revealed in a major new study which shows that employees still at their desks into the evening run an increased risk of stroke – and the longer the hours they put in, the higher the risk.

    The largest study conducted on the issue, carried out in three continents and led by scientists at University College London, found that those who work more than 55 hours a week have a 33% increased risk of stroke compared with those who work a 35- to 40-hour week. They also have a 13% increased risk of coronary heart disease.

    The findings will confirm the assumptions of many that a long-hours culture, in which people work from early in the morning until well into the evening, with work also intruding into weekends, is potentially harmful to health.

    • northshoredoc 15.1

      “Are long working hours killing Kiwis?”

      Depends really doesn’t it.

      Do they have other risk factors ? Are the long hours over long periods or intermittent ? What type of jobs are they in…etc etc

      • Colonial Rawshark 15.1.1

        From The Lancet:


        We included 25 studies from 24 cohorts in Europe, the USA, and Australia. The meta-analysis of coronary heart disease comprised data for 603 838 men and women who were free from coronary heart disease at baseline; the meta-analysis of stroke comprised data for 528 908 men and women who were free from stroke at baseline. Follow-up for coronary heart disease was 5·1 million person-years (mean 8·5 years), in which 4768 events were recorded, and for stroke was 3·8 million person-years (mean 7·2 years), in which 1722 events were recorded. In cumulative meta-analysis adjusted for age, sex, and socioeconomic status, compared with standard hours (35–40 h per week), working long hours (≥55 h per week) was associated with an increase in risk of incident coronary heart disease (relative risk [RR] 1·13, 95% CI 1·02–1·26; p=0·02) and incident stroke (1·33, 1·11–1·61; p=0·002). The excess risk of stroke remained unchanged in analyses that addressed reverse causation, multivariable adjustments for other risk factors, and different methods of stroke ascertainment (range of RR estimates 1·30–1·42). We recorded a dose–response association for stroke, with RR estimates of 1·10 (95% CI 0·94–1·28; p=0·24) for 41–48 working hours, 1·27 (1·03–1·56; p=0·03) for 49–54 working hours, and 1·33 (1·11–1·61; p=0·002) for 55 working hours or more per week compared with standard working hours (ptrend<0·0001).

      • Puddleglum 15.1.2

        Hi northshoredoc,

        You might find answers to some of your questions here. (The original paper in The Lancet).

        I think ‘depends’ is a bit misleading in this context. It’s an epidemiological study (and a meta-analysis) not an experiment to identify a causal mechanism.

        The correct notion is one of ‘risk’ at the population level.

        So the answer to the question “Are long working hours killing Kiwis?” is – almost certainly (unless we systematically differ from the population covered by the meta-analysis); but just which Kiwis might be killed by long working hours ‘depends’ (on the sorts of factors you mention).

        • northshoredoc

          Thanks for that – always good to see the actual publication and Yes you are quite right. I think if we narrowed it don to those working more than 60 hours a week, who were overweight, smokers, primarily sedentary, over 50yrs and did frequent long haul air travel the risk of stroke would be red lining.

          • Puddleglum

            Yes – always remembering that there is likely to be interactions between those variables (e.g., long-working hours reinforcing sedentary habits, poor diet, etc.)..

            And, of course, being over 50 happens to most of us – all going well – eventually 🙂

    • Draco T Bastard 16.1

      I blame the people who decided that it would be cheaper to import people to do the job rather than front up with getting NZers to do it. Going to cost a hell of a lot more now.

  14. maui 17

    Article on stuff giving the PM free reign on his flag change.

    It seems he can’t fool all the people all the time, judging by the comments.

    Leave our bloody flag alone.


    “If he was to push legislation through Parliament with 61 votes and enforce a new flag on New Zealand, “rightfully so people would say I was taking their democratic right away,” Key said.”

    Like when the public voted against sale of power stations but 61 MPs from the National government rammed it through anyway? I say Key took away our democratic rights on that occasion.


    Glad to know old John-boy worries about our democratic right… Now how about you let us vote on the TPPA? It’s the democratic thing to do


    • freedom 17.1

      It is going to be a very open referendum apparently when it comes to advertising and promotion of viewpoints.
      The rules for the referendum advertising restrictions apply to print newspaper tv and radio but that is about it.
      All online media, for example, are available for whatever purposes the spin-meisters deem necessary.
      I wonder how the lawyers deal with streaming radio & TV services?

      Material published online will not be a referendum advertisement and is not subject to the referendum advertising rules. This means an individual or group may publish and/or promote any advertising material in relation to the flag referendums on websites, social media pages or any other online platform and it will not be subject to the referendum advertising rules under the Act.

      (bold mine)

      Of course that doesn’t mean print, radio or television miss out as they still get to report on stories from any media they choose and will be able to publish any advertisement from other media as part of their reporting.

      On a related ‘reporting’ issue – as the referendum draws ever closer, we have still not seen any reporting on how a collection of images that have an existing copyright against them and are currently commercially marketed products have been allowed into the flag debate long list in the first place ….

    • Ad 17.2

      The big PR push happens around the Referendum, once we have had the reminder of the Rugby World Cup next month, Olympics soon, then World Masters Games in Auckland.

      PM will have the wind beneath his wings.
      Soaring like an eagle.
      Shaking his ass like a Bison.
      Flashing his tail like a whale.
      And lots and lots of puppy shots.

  15. The Gormless Fool formerly known as Oleolebiscuitbarrell 19

    People are waking up, I tells ya:

    • DoublePlusGood 19.1

      Wow. Collectively as a country we are so bloody dense it hurts.

    • Draco T Bastard 19.2

      Rogue poll by the looks.

      • The Gormless Fool formerly known as Oleolebiscuitbarrell 19.2.1

        Yet another one.

      • stigie 19.2.2

        So last months poll was not a rogue poll then ???

        • maui

          National’s popularity is now moving in wild swings much like the stock market. Trouble on the horizon when no one really knows what the market is doing or if it represents anything based on reality.

          • Colonial Rawshark

            No, it’s the polling which is moving about in wild swings. Having said that, National’s jump in this poll is well beyond the margin of error so we can be confident that their support has firmed recently.

            However the all important Government Confidence Rating remains weak.

            Labour got zero voter traction from the Chinese house buying ploy, and possibly quite the reverse, that much is clear.

      • philp 19.2.3

        Draco, it’s a shame last months poll wasn’t a rogue one!!!!!

    • Ad 19.3

      On the Government’s side:
      – Key understands that wall to wall media coverage is the best way to stay popular
      – Chinese voter intentions will harden to National in Auckland
      – The National front bench are firing, and providing Key with strong coverage
      – TPP protests appear not to have touched underlying popularity

      On the Opposition:
      – They Opposition remain a long way from looking like an alternative government
      – The rural economy has not yet fully soured. (It will)
      – Criticising real estate capital growth is not popular
      – Winston Peters continues to get better media traction than Little
      – Greens have no MSM profile currently

      It’s making 2017 look hard for the Progressive side of the fence.
      Should have been firing by now.

      • Colonial Rawshark 19.3.1

        I agree with all your points. Previously I had thought your statements around the ‘inevitable decline’ of the Key Govt as probably being a bit too early and a bit too optimistic.

  16. Sam C 20

    Haha! Another rogue poll. And yet the last Roy Morgan poll commented on on this blog was blindingly reflective of the Public’s will for change, judging by the comments on here.

  17. Morrissey 21

    “I’d like to be Richard Branson. SLURP.”
    The Panel, Radio NZ National, Thursday 20 August 2015
    Jim Mora, Peter Elliott, Gary Moore, Zara Potts, Jesse Mulligan

    We join the Panelists at the tail end of their reaction to a story about how rubbing coffee into your scalp can cure baldness….

    JIM MORA: Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha!
    JESSE MULLIGAN: Ha ha ha ha ha!
    PETER ELLIOTT: Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha!
    ZARA POTTS: He he he he he!
    JIM MORA: Ha ha ha! Okay, what else have you got?
    ZARA POTTS: Well, have you heard of a condition called misophonia?
    JIM MORA: Misophonia.
    ZARA POTTS: Misophonia is the intense, angry reaction to everyday sounds like chewing, lip-smacking, sniffing, and pen-clicking—sounds that other people can ignore. ……

    Now this was mischievous. It is probably not a coincidence that this subject was brought up when Peter Elliott was on the programme. Elliott has built a career out of cultivating a sonorous basso-profundo voice. He is a fine actor, but he has one extremely irritating habit: he is a slurper. If ever there was something to drive a misophonic person into a pit of dark frothing rage, it would be the slurping by Peter Elliott and a former Panel regular, Deborah Hill Cone.

    After the 4 o’clock news, Elliott spoke briefly about his recent trip to Los Angeles….

    People say L.A. is shallow and violent and nasty. I loved it! Maybe I’m just shallow and violent and nasty! SLURP. ….

    Later in the program, Jim Mora asked his guests who they would like to be for a day. Peter Elliott replied like this….

    Richard Branson. He owns this beautiful island and he owns an airline and he can fly anywhere he likes. SLURP

    For his Soapbox contribution, the slurping was unconstrained….

    I was sad to hear of the demise of the Middle East Cafe. It’s been in Auckland for 25 years. SLURP. I used to go there with my agent Robert Bruce. SLURP. I would be really upset if it became another McDonald’s or Wendy’s or some damn thing. SLURP. But my main topic today is the accuracy of petrol pumps. SLURP. I went on line and checked it out. SLURP. The smallest volume of petrol that can be accurately delivered is two dollars. SLURP….. I just wonder if I am being ripped off at the pump. SLURP….

    Poor old Gary Moore must be sick and tired of being paired with slurpers when he comes on this programme. A couple of years ago he had to sit opposite the most notorious slurper of them all, Deborah Hill Cone…..

    [lprent: As Chooky says. Nothing to do with the Assange post. I will give you a little leeway as I suspect it could have been an accident. Post this far off topic again, and I’ll have to get educational. ]

    • Chooky 21.1

      Morrissey…entertainining as it is ….shouldnt this be under ‘Open Mike’ ?…cant see what it has to do with Julian Assange allegations, which is the topic of this Post

    • Morrissey 21.2

      It was indeed an accident. Please accept my apologies.

    • the pigman 21.3

      “ZARA POTTS: Well, have you heard of a condition called misophonia?
      JIM MORA: Misophonia.”

      *snicker* You nail Mora’s parroting schtick so well, Morrissey. I’m embarrassed to say I usually catch 15 minutes of the Panel on the webcast (more than enough!) and this is basically how he reacts to any panellist introducing something to the show… just repeating what they’ve said with a kind of cheerful incredulity, like it’s the damned punchline.

      Hope they had the obligatory discussion about the flag/Auckland property prices. The Panel is a sick Groundhog Day Hell and I’m a sucker for punishment.

  18. James 22

    “The latest Roy Morgan political poll has the John Key-led National Party’s support jumping 7.5 per cent to 50.5 per cent.”

    Last Roy Morgan with a big jump for Labour and the standard commented:

    “Key and his advisors will be very nervous now”

    I wonder if Little and his advisors will be very nervous now?

    Labour is way back at 27%. I still think that they will drop from here.

    • Weepus beard 22.1

      The swings are so big and numbers so inconsistent that I don’t think Roy Morgan polls are good enough to wipe your arse with.

      • The Gormless Fool formerly known as Oleolebiscuitbarrell 22.1.1

        Treat them all with scepticism if you like, but don’t treat the ones that suit you as gospel and those that don’t as rogue.

        I’d love to hear Colonial Viper’s view of this poll.

        He took the last Roy Morgan poll as proof positive that Labour’s “move left” strategy was resonating with the public and that the Nats would be “nervous”.

        • Weepus beard

          Treat them all with scepticism if you like, but don’t treat the ones that suit you as gospel and those that don’t as rogue.

          – Gormless Fool

          And I don’t.

          Colonial Viper and yourself may choose to analyse polls looking for answers that aren’t there, and you are welcome to do that.

    • Clemgeopin 22.2

      Yes, this poll has been a big disappointment for me and a surprise that National has risen in spite of….

      (1) TPP shenanigans
      (2) Low milk price
      (3) Housing crisis
      (4) Saudi Sheep shit bribe (and investigation)
      (5) Pony tail investigation
      (6) State house asset sales
      (7) Homelessness increase
      (9) Job losses left, right and centre!
      (10) Undermining of workers

      Don’t know what gives! Remains to be seen in the next TV1 & TV3 polls if there is a trend or if this poll is a strange unexpected aberration.

      • greywarshark 22.2.1

        Chris Trotter says that the young adults are very drawn to yek as he epitomises the virtues of today, money, and essence of cool. What he posits might be an answer to your question. The things you have listed are the sort of things that older Labour voters considered important. Now in the ‘Me’ neo lib era they are not central.

        • Clemgeopin

          There is a lot of truth in that…sadly!

          Two other reasons for that are, in my opinion,

          (1) Our education system does not include the (compulsory) study and discussion about political thought, past revolutions, civics, constitution, local and world history, discussions of ideologies, ethics, philosophical thoughts etc unless a student specifically chooses that and very few do.

          (2) The media dumbs down news and the people generally do not take an active interest in democratic participation, thought and discussion on important issues, except for a small part of the population, including the activists. (even in the USA of all places which is a large democratic nation and also where ‘God’ is put on a pedestal and ‘spoken off’ as important by politicians but ‘opposite’ rules in practice, if you know what I mean!)

          In the mean time, the world is being taken over by ‘all kinds’ of evil forces! I fear for the children and the future of our world.

          P.S :
          “The things you have listed are the sort of things that older Labour voters considered important’

          I didn’t think I was that old, but ok! LOL

          greywarshark, have a guess of my age and gender from my comments over time. +/- 5 will do. I am curious. It is interesting.

          • greywarshark

            I think that people don’t reach the age of approaching wisdom till they are about 40, as by that time they have had personal life experience and learned a bit about how the world works. So I would put you nearer 50 than 40. Any good? Gender – I feel you are a woman, have a less stoic attitude to others’ difficulties and conditions than the average male.

            Myself I have let on earlier. But I’m a late bloomer, really didn’t start thinking hard till I went to uni mid-life and that was my tertiary introduction and I have tried to keep learning, thinking and doing for good democracy since then.

            • Clemgeopin

              Thanks for the response, greywarshark. Much appreciated. Have an enjoyable day. Cheers!

              • greywarshark

                I thought you might give an indication as to correctness. You are worse than a cryptic crossword which hold out on me (I really like to do them late and have the answers available to peek at.)

                • Clemgeopin

                  LOL! You did quite Ok, I will leave it at that. Sorry, I shouldn’t have asked you in the first place. My bad a tad as the sad mad lad.

  19. greywarshark 23

    John Oliver and Clarke and Dawe touching on Tony Abbott (with a bargepole).

  20. Gabby 24

    The Cabinet is chocablock with liars, but Labour are far too genteel to point this out in words of one syllable. They won’t get Ponyboy into court without goading him into suing someone.

  21. greywarshark 25

    Overseas deaths of honourable people.

    Khaled al-Asaad Syrian archaeologist aged 81 beheaded by ISIS.

    The latest from AVaaz. Sad stuff continues with journalists persecuted
    Mexican photojournalist Rubén Espinosa was just found tortured and murdered, along with human rights activist Nadia Vera and three other women.
    Freedom of expression is under attack in one of Latin America’s oldest democracies, and Rubén is the 14th journalist killed in the southern state of Veracruz where governor Javier Duarte has made open threats against reporters. Almost none of these crimes have been solved.

    But this case has sent thousands into the streets and set off an explosion in the national and global media. Now Gael García Bernal, Salman Rushdie, Christiane Amanpour and hundreds of journalists, writers and artists have signed an open letter demanding justice for journalists in Mexico murdered for doing their jobs

    Mexico – Committee to Protect Journalists
    In the past 10 years, 370 journalists were murdered; in 90 percent of cases, there … Mexican photojournalist who fled violent Veracruz state murdered in capital.

    Journalists Killed in Mexico – Committee to Protect Journalists
    34 Journalists Killed in Mexico since 1992/Motive Confirmed. — Killed by Country –. — Killed by Country –; All Countries; Afghanistan; Algeria; Angola; Argentina …

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