Open mike 21/06/2023

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, June 21st, 2023 - 66 comments
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Open mike is your post.

For announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose.

The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the Policy).

Step up to the mike …

66 comments on “Open mike 21/06/2023 ”

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  1. Dennis Frank 1
    21 June 2023 at 6:51 am

    It's so hard, creating common ground amongst left-wingers. Each of them knows they're right, therefore the others must be wrong. Consequently their default modus operandi is arguing with each other rather than reaching accord. That seems evident in the formation of the axis of evil in Oz currently:

    The $10bn Housing Australia future fund will not pass parliament this week, after the Greens and Coalition teamed up in the Senate to delay the bill until October, prompting warnings of a double dissolution election.

    A Greens motion proposing to delay the bill until 16 October to “allow time for national cabinet to progress reforms to strengthen renters’ rights” was voted up 37 votes to 23 about noon on Monday. A bid by Labor to vote on the bill on Tuesday was defeated.

    The Greens party room met on Monday morning, after which Senator Sarah Hanson-Young stood in the Senate announcing the planned delay. Hanson-Young said the Greens “would like for us to postpone that bill until the prime minister can show what he is going to do to relieve real pressure on one-third of Australian households” who rent. She said after “months of being told there was nothing the government could do”, Labor had found “a bit of cash stashed down the back of the couch”, promising $2bn over the weekend.

    Dan Farrell, Labor’s deputy Senate leader, in the chamber labelled the Greens and the Coalition the “axis of evil”.

    Only a Labour politician would be silly enough to imply that those who care about the third of aussies who pay rent are evil. The foot fits in the mouth more easily due to the lack of brain creating more room at the back in there.

    The Greens leader, Adam Bandt:

    It’s wall-to-wall Labor across the mainland, so rent rises are their responsibility.”

    https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2023/jun/19/labor-housing-bill-australia-future-fund-could-be-delayed-greens-rent-freeze

    The PM trotted out the standard neolib line:

    In question time, Albanese labelled the Greens and Coalition an “unholy alliance” and argued that a rent freeze would “destroy supply”.

    He means landlords would refrain from putting tenants in their houses. Has that ever happened?? If he was clever, he would cite the NZ Labour innovative use of legal doctrine, and point out that since he'd predicted that happening, it had immediately happened. Oz parliament would exhibit universal stunned mullet syndrome.

    Oz online media would then be likely to credit the PM with brilliant legal manoeuvering, with no mention of the kiwi antecedent, because they always steal from us.

    • Phillip ure 1.1
      21 June 2023 at 6:24 pm

      If the greens could achieve more green gains by sitting on the cross benches..I would have no problem with that..

      In fact would encourage it..

      • Dennis Frank 1.1.1
        21 June 2023 at 6:54 pm

        It has been a priority for them to embed in our political culture as capable practitioners of democratic process and having ministerial roles is the best way to exhibit competence. Having been part of the Green movement since 1968, I watched Green values being rubbished by the establishment thro the '70s & '80s.

        Now Green values are established, both on the left and on the right. Even business leaders now embrace them. Focus has switched to how they are best implemented in social & political processes. Greens in parliament are more effectively part of that trend while they have leverage.

        That said, I don't disagree with how you feel – in fact I'd prefer them to mix critical stances in a lot more than they have done so far…

  2. SPC 2
    21 June 2023 at 8:16 am

    From the USA to Israel and now New Zealand there are politicians concerned about the influence of the courts.

    In the USA the GOP organised a long term campaign – involving the blocking of the appointment of Garland in 2016 to win control of the Supreme Court. The object of which appears to be to allow a conservative group control over social policy (unwind civil liberties at the federal level and allow social conservative states their own legislative agency) and in return receive control over state electoral law (a form of return of Jim Crow).

    In Israel an alliance (the most right wing government in the nations history) seeks control of appointments to their Supreme Court and to assert parliamentary dominance over ultimate decision-making – to over-ride human rights constraint on government power by their Supreme Court.

    Here we have David Seymour

    If ACT has its way following next year’s election, the party would pass a law defining the principles of the Treaty during the next term of Parliament.

    https://www.1news.co.nz/2022/03/24/act-party-wants-referendum-on-co-governance-with-maori/

    He wants his party to decide the meaning of the TOW. Part of doing this is insisting on a referendum as a price for coalition with National. The purpose of which is to demonstrate the principle of popular majority authority over the Treaty and the courts, including the WT.

    In this he follows after Don Brash – 2005 leader of National and then ACT. Principally known for his kiwi or iwi campaign and then his association with One New Zealand.

    The intellect of Don Brash on display.

    https://www.bassettbrashandhide.com/post/don-brash-new-zealand-is-reaching-a-crisis-point

    No mention of iwi property rights and chieftainship in article 2 – the role of WT in redress and how in lieu of claim to property now in public estate might come co-governance of that. Nor any mention of UNDRIP which National signed us up to. Nor of the role of Maori partners in delivery of services to Maori (when whanau ora was set up when National was in government and ACT was a support partner).

    David Seymour also wants to end the Human Rights Commission.

    This speaks of a deliberate play on the right for what might be termed the racist nationalist vote against some other, not of their nation – secular liberals, non Jews and Maori.

  3. Nic the NZer 3
    21 June 2023 at 8:37 am

    On the actual and fictional issues relating to retirement and pensions.

    Demographic retirement shifts

    • SPC 3.1
      21 June 2023 at 8:54 am

      Economists, by and large, are not in the knowledge game, but, are, rather, ideological warriors who seek to advance the interests of the capitalist class, knowing they can glean well-paid consultancies from that class for services rendered.

      Unsurprisingly the deputy of ACT realised her calling when studying economics – I remember saying to a student who asked the Professor about why there was no study of alternatives to the market system till the third year – no one spends three years learning something only to question its value (it's a form of cult grooming where one gets paid for it in employment).

  4. Dennis Frank 4
    21 June 2023 at 10:51 am

    Rabid socialists attack banks? Luke Malpass, on Labour cynicism:

    These market studies, a big Labour thing, use the technocratic power of the state and the supposedly impressive investigatory powers of the Commerce Commission to root out cases of non-competition or lacking competition.

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/132373844/commerce-commission-market-study-into-banks-a-bonanza-for-lawyers-and-consultants

    Banking sector dude the other day declared there were 16 players in our banking market, so why Labour felt the need to provide a gravy train for lawyers & consultants to – determine if 16 players in a market is non-competitive – ain't all that clear really. All Blacks use 15 players – they seem rather competitive. Usually.

    Still, if the gravy train determines that the 16 are operating as a cartel, I'll tip my non-hat to the PM's initiative on the issue. It would be serious evidence that the few rabid socialists left alive are not alone.

    • Bearded Git 4.1
      21 June 2023 at 11:40 am

      Luke Malpass shows his true colours yet again. According to Chloe and the Greens a 10% excess profit tax on the banks would raise $500m. Sounds like a good reason to investigate the banks to me.

      https://www.greens.org.nz/when_even_the_nats_agree_bank_profits_are_out_of_control_it_s_time_for_an_excess_profits_tax

      “The bottom line remains: the big banks are fleecing New Zealanders and should be taxed to help pay for the cyclone clean up. The only thing standing in the way is political willpower,” says Chlöe Swarbrick.

      • Dennis Frank 4.1.1
        21 June 2023 at 12:00 pm

        Can't fault your logic at all, but I get why he sees Labour's deferral of the issue until the pre-campaign onset as cynical. It is! Still, it's an opportunity.

        Since nobody in my lifetime has provided evidence that any Labourer is a member of Labour, could be Labour members have realised they have an authenticity problem and are preparing to resign en masse to join The Opportunities Party. That would be cool: leftists & centrists in neolib harmony…

        • Bearded Git 4.1.1.1
          21 June 2023 at 1:06 pm

          TOP could waste 4.9% of the Left's votes, putting Luxon in power.

          Defect at your peril.

      • Adrian Thornton 4.1.2
        21 June 2023 at 1:49 pm

        I am not quite sure why people are still handwringing over Labour's lack of movement on banks-supermarkets-fuel industry….Labour have made no secret that their economic ideology is laissez faire Free Market Capitalism…I mean seriously, just like National and ACT they are serious free market fundamentalists, end of story.

        If citizens want a political party that would actually rein in those industries..then they better start start looking somewhere else cos it is obvious that Labour ain't never doing it….and unfortunately when push comes to shove The Greens have proved that under it's present leadership, they have the backbone of a jellyfish…which leaves us in rather a pickle really.

        • Descendant Of Smith 4.1.2.1
          21 June 2023 at 2:52 pm

          But we all know that some of the excess profit was due to the reserve bank lifting interest rates to transfer economic spending in the market to paying increased money to the banks through higher interest rates i.e. it was deliberately engineered government policy.

          What were they expecting to happen to bank incomes and profits when they engineered it thus.

  5. tsmithfield 5
    21 June 2023 at 2:41 pm

    Shit. Wood has gone after it was revealed that there were more undeclared shares. I didn't see that coming.

    • James Simpson 5.1
      21 June 2023 at 2:48 pm

      Very sloppy from Wood.

      Similar downfall to Nash. The initial issue was just the tip and once it was drilled into there was multiple failings of the cabinet manuel.

      Chippy had no choice really.

      Its very frustrating as they were two of the better ministers in this government.

    • weka 5.2
      21 June 2023 at 2:48 pm

      how hard it is to instruct your sharebroker to provide a list of all investments? That’s not meant to be a rhetorical question, so let me rephrase. Is it difficult for a sharebroker to provide a list of all investments?

      • Descendant Of Smith 5.2.1
        21 June 2023 at 2:54 pm

        John Key got around the issue by having a blind trust – even though he gave away wine from the winery he didn't know he owned

        Maybe all MP's should have blind trusts.

        • tsmithfield 5.2.1.1
          21 June 2023 at 3:00 pm

          I think blind trusts would simplify things quite a lot, because, I imagine an MP would only need to disclose the fact that the trust existed.

          If the trust is completely unaccessable to the MP, then they have no way of knowing what assets are in the trust at any particular time.

          • In Vino 5.2.1.1.1
            21 June 2023 at 6:09 pm

            Did you miss DoS's point?

            John Key's interest was in a winery he should not have known he owned, yet he became well-known for giving away bottles from that winery.

            If the blind trust system is that unreliable, it should be abolished.

      • tsmithfield 5.2.2
        21 June 2023 at 2:55 pm

        We have a few shares, and they are purchased and sold online quickly and easily. Not sure how that would work with shares that were aquired before all the online stuff. But, I imagine a broker should be able to discover all that fairly easily. Back in the day it just used to involve putting in a buy or sell order to a broker.

      • JohnO 5.2.3
        21 June 2023 at 2:58 pm

        He only owned a few equities (unless there's more) so he should just know what he had without having to ask. He was both trustee and beneficiary so to not know would be be somewhere in the spectrum of incompetent to negligent. Whatever, it doesn't show the sort of attention to detail required of a senior minister.

        • weka 5.2.3.1
          21 June 2023 at 3:58 pm

          his trust lawyer no doubt manages it all because he's busy. That's not unreasonable. The issue is more how difficult it is for whoever is managing the shares to provide details.

          • tsmithfield 5.2.3.1.1
            21 June 2023 at 4:48 pm

            In whatever case Wood will have been aware the trust existed. So, there isn't really much of a defence.

    • JohnO 5.3
      21 June 2023 at 2:54 pm

      LOL. Yes you did!

      • tsmithfield 5.3.1
        21 June 2023 at 2:58 pm

        I probably thought he should resign. But, I thought it had died a natural death. I didn't expect more shares to show up.

        • RosieLee 5.3.1.1
          21 June 2023 at 4:11 pm

          He shouldn't be allowed to just resign. He should be totally expelled – including from the Labour Party. This BS makes me really angry – and I'm a lifetime Labour voter. Why should I bother?

      • In Vino 5.3.2
        21 June 2023 at 6:11 pm

        Who on earth is this comment directed at?

        The Reply button is there for a reason…

    • SPC 5.4
      21 June 2023 at 3:10 pm

      So that is why he ended any limit on numbers on skilled migrants allowed in, he's off to become an immigration consultant (anyone skilled in compliance checks please see Labour Party HQ and the PM's department for advertised jobs).

      • Dennis Frank 5.4.1
        21 June 2023 at 3:20 pm

        Seems obvious, eh? Worked well for Aussie Malcom 30 or more years back. Last one out of the Labour cabinet turn off the light… enlightened

        Seymour: “I guess he could have a pretty good future as a stockbroker.” But then he’d forget where all the shares were stashed.

    • Charlotte Rust 5.5
      21 June 2023 at 4:46 pm

      So politicians shouldn’t own any shares at all or just ones that potentially affect their portfolio? Or is the problem the lack of declaration rather than the conflict of interest? By this rational should they be landlords? That is a massive conflict of interest that affects a third of our population in the pocket more than say a migration minister having shares in Chorus etc.

      • Ad 5.5.1
        21 June 2023 at 4:56 pm

        They should declare it all both as an MP and as a Minister whether it is in their portfolio or not. Obviously.

        • Dennis Frank 5.5.1.1
          21 June 2023 at 5:40 pm

          I just listened to Lisa Owen interviewing Hipkins on Checkpoint & something he said about all the rigmarole he's instituting or has already put in place made me wonder if it would be easier to just create a Minister for Conflicts of Interest.

          So the other ministers could run their shareholdings by someone briefed to know what to do about them, I mean. The PM did say, in response to Lisa asking if it was defiance or just dumbness (Wood's problematic behaviour), that he'd had `several meetings with Michael about this in recent weeks but he seemed unable to explain why it had happened'.

          Could be neither defiance nor idiocy, but genuine lack of compehension. Some folks just haven't got the faintest clue why they do things.

        • Charlotte Rust 5.5.1.2
          21 June 2023 at 5:45 pm

          Obvious to us but appears not to be obvious to the politicians. Same as Luxon’s hypocrisy over the Tesla debacle. I’m sick of the self serving, do as I say not as I do, nature of politicians.

    • Bearded Git 5.6
      21 June 2023 at 6:17 pm

      Having defended Wood throughout even I have to admit this is just way too careless and lazy-he had to go.

      I do, however, believe Wood when he says none of these shareholdings have had any influence on his behaviour or decisions as a minister. I also doubt that he has profited in any meaningful way.

      Does anyone out there know the value of the Chorus, Spark and NAB shareholdings he has just "found" in the trust?

      • Anne 5.6.1
        21 June 2023 at 10:03 pm

        Based on Hipkins' struggle to understand why Wood was unable to give him a reasonable explanation for his lack of oversight, I suspect Wood might be covering up for someone. It would account for the apparent procrastination in his handling of the matter.

        Seems so strange for someone who has demonstrated his competency in all of his former portfolios to mess up like he has over a personal financial matter.

  6. Joe90 6
    21 June 2023 at 3:16 pm

    Finally.

    AFP

    #UPDATE Iceland's government said Tuesday it was suspending this year's whale hunt until the end of August due to animal welfare concerns, likely bringing the controversial practice to a historic end.

    https://twitter.com/AFP/status/1671152168907288576

    https://uk.news.yahoo.com/iceland-suspends-whale-hunt-animal-134954135.html

    https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2022/feb/04/iceland-to-end-whaling-in-2024-demand-dwindles

  7. Herodotus 7
    21 June 2023 at 3:26 pm

    Great to see others concerned with the way the new Dunedin Hospital has been mis managed all for austerity to save a few $$ and to achieve a hospital that will be inferior and not fit for purpose or what the region deserves.

    "the new dunedin hospital is going from a state of the art tertiary hospital that could serve the region for generations to… a cheap imitation that will end up probably needing extensions and remediations within a generation but it’s ok because that cost isn’t incurred today?????

    https://twitter.com/MorganGodfery/status/1669842291643801602?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1669842291643801602%7Ctwgr%5E0174bbb027af0be1cac9504f4348da17daba5087%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.kiwiblog.co.nz%2F

    • weka 7.1
      21 June 2023 at 4:08 pm

      that's incredibly depressing.

      • gsays 7.1.1
        21 June 2023 at 7:13 pm

        'Scuse the scratched record, but this story brings my two hobby horses together.

        Labour's squandering the opportunity of generational reform and neo-libs gotta neo-lib.

      • Bearded Git 7.1.2
        21 June 2023 at 9:31 pm

        It could easily lose Labour the election. They have a couple of months to get out of their Wellington bubble and do something about this….a couple of hundred million extra for the hospital and a minister anouncing this in to he Octagon in Dunedin would go a long way…time is running out.

  8. Dennis Frank 8
    21 June 2023 at 3:27 pm

    The PM has already re-arranged his deckchairs:

    Carmel Sepuloni will become the Minister of Auckland and Minister of Workplace Relations and Safety, Andrew Little will be Immigration Minister, David Parker will cover Transport, and Kiri Allan will become the Associate Finance Minister.

    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/prime-minister-chris-hipkins-reveals-michael-woods-future/EFRLIOY63FE3BCFXFTXFX3OXGQ/

  9. Alan 9
    21 June 2023 at 3:43 pm

    How will the good people of Mount Roskill feel about todays turn of events?????

    • Red Blooded One 9.1
      21 June 2023 at 3:52 pm

      Some will be disappointed, some will be angry, some will be nonchalant and some, like you, will be rubbing their sweaty little hands with glee. Sorry couldn't be bothered thinking up another emotion for your 5th question mark.

  10. Anne 10
    21 June 2023 at 3:55 pm

    Damn shame. Wood had a glittering career ahead of him. Among the top most competent ministers – a leader in waiting.

    How could he have been so stupid.

    I hate to say it, but to me its a form of arrogance that seems to go with many at the top end of the political scale. Example: For all his matiness, John Key became too arrogant for his own good. To be fair though he saw his demise coming and got out.

    • Red Blooded One 10.1
      21 June 2023 at 4:01 pm

      yes

    • RosieLee 10.2
      21 June 2023 at 4:19 pm

      yes

    • Tiger Mountain 10.3
      21 June 2023 at 4:36 pm

      I had hoped Mr Wood was an old school Labourite–and with his input into substantial Bus Driver pay rises and Coastal Shipping–it looked rather promising.

      Michael did this to him self ultimately. Rationalising? thinking a family trust took him out of the frame? who knows…but sad none the less.

      For almost 40 years now personal shareholdings in Finance Capital have been promoted as a very good thing indeed for all non ‘losers’ in society to participate in. There may well be a few slippery, more skilled at hiding the dosh Nats thinking tonight–“phew, glad it wasn’t me”.

      • Anne 10.3.1
        21 June 2023 at 4:54 pm

        Nats thinking tonight–“phew, glad it wasn’t me”.

        You bet there are! There will be a rush on share-brokers tomorrow.

        I'm starting to wonder if he arranged for someone to manage his shares/finances for him so he could attend fulltime to his portfolios and they bungled it. I watched the questions and answer session after Hipkin's press conference earlier today, and he made it clear "he does not understand Wood's explanation".

        • higherstandard 10.3.1.1
          21 June 2023 at 5:26 pm

          'Nats thinking tonight–“phew, glad it wasn’t me”.'

          No there won't, the Nats are not in government.

          It was not the fact Micheal had shares that got him in trouble it was the failure to declare them and the potential conflicts of interest whilst in Minister it's bizarre.

          I know Michael and get along quite well with him despite being on the different side of the fence politically – I just don't understand how this could happen.

    • joe90 11.1
      21 June 2023 at 6:33 pm

      Here's $250K. Take me to the most hostile environment on the planet!.

      Another issue of contention was the submarine’s viewport—that is, the front window out of which passengers can see the ocean. According to Lochridge’s allegations, he was repeatedly “denied” information by other members of the team about the submarine’s viewport. Eventually, Lochridge attended a meeting where he was given full information about the viewport, and it did not go well…

      At the meeting Lochridge discovered why he had been denied access to the viewport information from the Engineering department—the viewport at the forward of the submersible was only built to a certified pressure of 1,300 meters, although OceanGate intended to take passengers down to depths of 4,000 meters. Lochridge learned that the viewport manufacturer would only certify to a depth of 1,300 meters due to experimental design of the viewport supplied by OceanGate, which was out of the Pressure Vessels for Human Occupancy (“PVHO”) standards. OceanGate refused to pay for the manufacturer to build a viewport that would meet the required depth of 4,000 meters.

      In other words, according to the lawsuit, the Titan’s viewport really wasn’t built for the depths at which the vehicle was traveling. Indeed, the sub was in the midst of a dive to the site of the Titanic wreckage on Sunday when it disappeared—which is said to be some 13,000 feet below the surface of the ocean.

      Lochridge’s lawsuit did not proceed particularly far and the former employee and the company swiftly settled.

      https://news.yahoo.com/company-behind-missing-tourist-sub-053000248.html

    • Dennis Frank 11.2
      21 June 2023 at 6:59 pm

      Jeez. In this hi-tech world one expects systems to be better designed than this. Bit of a cowboy enterprise, it seems. But I hope they get rescued soon.

    • joe90 11.3
      22 June 2023 at 9:49 am

      A disaster waiting to happen.

      @FridaGhitis

      This short clip will help you understand why the Titanic mini sub is missing and why this was an accident waiting to happen.

      https://twitter.com/FridaGhitis/status/1671120043126423553

  12. corey 12
    21 June 2023 at 6:05 pm

    Good grief.

    Day after day, week after week, it feels like a labour minister or a labour appointee has been caught out in a conflict of interest they haven't declared.

    Will the remaining mps quadruple check their investments and if they have a single conflict declare it immediately.

    Going forward any further mps, especially cabinet ministers caught out like this should be sacked from the party all together.

    National has armies of people looking over labour mps conflicts, if they don't come out and say it now they are gonna get caught out regardless.

    Sad to see Wood go, unlike most of Labours cabinet he actually achieved a few social democratic wins, still there can be no tolerance for this shit.

    If there's anyone else, and they STILL haven't owned up, throw them under buses and end their parliamentary careers.

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