Open mike 21/11/2021

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, November 21st, 2021 - 90 comments
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Step up to the mike …

90 comments on “Open mike 21/11/2021 ”

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    • Pataua4life 2.1
      21 November 2021 at 8:59 am

      And exactly how 3Waters is going to turn out

    • Ad 2.2
      21 November 2021 at 9:50 am

      It will not be re-opening in any form of Level 2, and don't have the resource to enforce the Traffic Light system.

      Alerts and Important Information : Tuhoe (ngaituhoe.iwi.nz)

      And of course DOC don't function there.

      Went there last year and it was a mess. Track to the start was only accessible now by 4WD, no huts maintained, no one there, no track maintenance, nothing.

      The Waikeremoana circuit is largely only visited by the occasional hunter.

      There's no trapping or pest control.

      Some of this has been made worse by COVID, but this ex-National Park is never coming back.

      They promised to maintain public access as part of the deal, and in fact that it "would not be compromised in any way."

      Iwi wants to run Te Urewera National Park – NZ Herald

      This is solely a Tuhoe failure.

      • RedLogix 2.2.1
        21 November 2021 at 10:06 am

        Yes – that's the same message I'm hearing from the online tramping community I'm also involved in. One source I trust outlined an unpleasant encounter with a local – passive aggressive signals that make it clear 'you're not welcome here'.

        • Ad 2.2.1.1
          21 November 2021 at 10:20 am

          No I have not been a Park Ranger.

          I was just doing the circuit with my sister.

          • RedLogix 2.2.1.1.1
            21 November 2021 at 10:44 am

            Sorry I misunderstood.

            The sad thing here is that Tuhoe are sitting on a cultural/environmental goldmine if they chose to use it wisely.

            • Ad 2.2.1.1.1.1
              21 November 2021 at 11:53 am

              Like no one saw this coming.

              Still it's their land. Whatever.

              • Brigid …
                21 November 2021 at 12:08 pm

                "Still it's their land"

                Aye it surely is. After 150 years of putting up with the rules set by a government they never signed any treaty with, they have to fly right?

                ".. this ex-National Park is never coming back." 'Coming back'? Good grief!!

                • Ad …
                  21 November 2021 at 12:45 pm

                  Just read the Stuff article for the evidence.

                  If you've lost the ability to point and name failure, you are part of it.

                  • swordfish …
                    21 November 2021 at 1:46 pm

                    .

                    The dogmatic Woke deploy a highly Paternalistic Nobel Savage Romanticism … [Māori as eternally innocent, eternally virtuous … essentially powerless children, always the victim, always selfless in motivation, always bereft of agency] … to display their "unusually refined moral sensibilities" and enhance their social prestige as they consolidate their privilege & power … these "heroic" Upper-Middle Class Rescuers will close down all criticism of poor Māori governance, corruption, nepotism. And the affluent Woke will, of course, never be the ones suffering the profoundly negative consequences. This is the future we're looking at.

                    • Ad …
                      21 November 2021 at 2:12 pm

                      Look, I'm about as HomoPomoGeo as the next person, do 4am Matins venerating the patron saints of woke lost causes, burn midnight offerings to the Protestant work ethic of irredeemable capitalism one flat rebuild skip of waste at a time, and apply the carding brush of inadequacy to my irreconciled black summer dogfur of vanity. So I may well not demur from the nom-de-plume of that same terrifying future you see.

                  • Brigid …
                    22 November 2021 at 12:01 am

                    All I can take from that comment is that:

                    (a) Your lack of insight renders you blind to your white privilege, so well displayed by your pearl clutching because you aren't getting your 'national park back'

                    (b) You're too thick to comprehend what I've written.

                    Tuhoe don't care whether you approve or not that they aren't administering the land in the way you think fit. They are gleefully (with a fair amount of humour) watching your frustration and humiliation with more than a little schadenfreude.

                    • RedLogix …
                      22 November 2021 at 12:21 am

                      Aye it surely is. After 150 years of putting up with the rules set by a government they never signed any treaty with, they have to fly right?

                      Some Tuhoe leaders have long held to the romantic idea this means they never became part of the NZ state and never subject to it's Parliament.

                      Want to go there?

                • Gabby …
                  21 November 2021 at 1:28 pm

                  Well yes, if they agreed to.

                • bwaghorn …
                  21 November 2021 at 6:19 pm

                  They did sign an agreement to keep it open to all and run under co governance. Guess its different if they are dishonest a??

        • Robert Guyton 2.2.1.2
          21 November 2021 at 12:02 pm

          "online tramping"?

          What's the world coming too???!

    • millsy 2.3
      21 November 2021 at 9:55 am

      I warned several times on this website that this would happen, and it has. And it will happen again once iwi get the rest of our national parks

      • weka 2.3.1
        21 November 2021 at 10:10 am

        you’ve ignored moderation, so now putting you on the ban list until you respond. Look back in past few days to my replies to you to see what that is about. Your comments will no longer appear on the front end until this is resolved.

        • Puckish Rogue 2.3.1.1
          21 November 2021 at 10:40 am

          Hi weka

          I, personally, have no issue with what Millsy says, he adds humour to this site and he certainly brings a 'fresh' and 'unique' perspective to discussions

          Free the Millsy!

          • weka 2.3.1.1.1
            21 November 2021 at 10:45 am

            I have no problem with them participating on site either. I do have a problem with dropping random reckons into threads about controversial public figures with the intention of participating in debate and not providing back up for what they say when asked. Read the Policy, it’s clear.

            Further, they're on the ban list because they ignored moderation.

            All that is easily resolved by Millsy responding to the original requests.

      • weka 2.3.2
        22 November 2021 at 8:51 am

        out of moderation now. Please be more careful in the future both about backing up, and responding to mod notes. I've made a note in the back end to that effect in case there is a next time.

    • Foreign waka 2.4
      21 November 2021 at 11:09 am

      Waiting for more handouts I guess, sitting back and expecting "initiative".

      I remember some 25 years ago visiting, it felt actually being in the movie Deliverance. I'd hazard a guess it hasn't improved.

    • pat 2.5
      21 November 2021 at 7:25 pm

      As you say bwaghorn….its politics, if pakeha want flash tracks and huts and tourists then they (via the Gov) need to front the dollars ….and Tuhoe will happily reap the income generated….and if the dollars atrnt forthcoming then they have lost nothing and the land remains in their control.

      • bwaghorn 2.5.1
        22 November 2021 at 12:01 pm

        You’re putting words into my keyboard! I think tuhoe are in the wrong, they agreed to the terms and a not holding there side up. The article says there is $2.3 mill base available to run it ,with provision to up it if needed,

        Kruger says they wont let doc do work on tracks because thaey want their people to do the work, then admit they cant get there people to do it.

        I grew up in the shadow of the Uruwera and spent a chunk of my 20s hunting and pest controlling there ,also had a basic batch at tuai for a time ,it saddens me greatly that the door is closing on the opportunity to take my young'n there .

  3. Molly 3
    21 November 2021 at 8:14 am

    Sunday morning video for Gezza, and anyone else who has done video editing and understands how much a labour of love this would have been.

    For everyone else, Hollywood in its heyday.

    • Puckish Rogue 3.1
      21 November 2021 at 10:51 am

      Its good. Bit too much Mickey Rooney and not enough Gene Kelly for my liking.

      Try this for a more modern take:

    • Anker 3.2
      21 November 2021 at 11:18 am

      Thanks for posting Molly. They don't make them like they used to

      And following from PR here's Gene Kelly, singing in the rain. Surely this is the most impressive dance sequence ever (that and the piece included in the clipof GK Debbie Reynolds and some other dude. Really worth watching the full dance routine

      • Puckish Rogue 3.2.1
        21 November 2021 at 11:19 am

        A really good movie but have you considered:

        • Molly 3.2.1.1
          21 November 2021 at 11:51 am

          I have to admit retrospectively finding Cab Calloway only after watching the Blues Brothers… but since then, have preferred this to Joe Jackson's cover. Thanks.

          • Puckish Rogue 3.2.1.1.1
            21 November 2021 at 11:56 am

            Theres a few moves in here that make me wince and cross my legs and how the gosh darn heck do they manage to do the splits and then stand up only using their legs?

          • Robert Guyton 3.2.1.1.2
            21 November 2021 at 12:07 pm

            "how the gosh darn heck do they manage to do the splits and then stand up only using their legs?"

            Sprung-steel inner-leg inserts – an old dancers' trick. The inserts Josephine Baker used were so cunningly hidden, no one ever saw them!

      • Molly 3.2.2
        21 November 2021 at 12:40 pm

        If you turn the captions on in the first video – the editor has added movie names and years.

        (The other dude is Donald O'Connor, Song: Good Morning from Singing in the Rain movie.) wink

    • Molly 3.3
      21 November 2021 at 11:54 am

      Note: Imagine the studio insurance today for James Cagney @ 3:43.

    • mary_a 3.4
      21 November 2021 at 1:25 pm

      Cheers Molly (3) … I thoroughly enjoyed the video. I loved the old Hollywood musicals. Although there was a feast of them during my growing up years and the story lines somewhat insipid in some, it was always the dancing that won over the audiences laugh

      Thanks for sharing.

      • Molly 3.4.1
        21 November 2021 at 1:37 pm

        My memories – flawed perhaps – are of watching with my mother on rainy afternoons.

        Glad you enjoyed it, though it makes my only dance move – 80's sidestep and finger click seem so inadequate. Might be inspired to go for the occasional forward kick!

    • Shanreagh 3.5
      21 November 2021 at 2:33 pm

      Fantastic….editing and original dancing, smiley

  4. Molly 4
    21 November 2021 at 8:49 am

    Doxxing a woman in Scotland. Let's see how fast the police respond to this.

    https://twitter.com/Obsolesence/status/1462067037421948935

    • weka 4.1
      21 November 2021 at 10:37 am

      Richard has deleted their tweet now.

      • Molly 4.1.1
        21 November 2021 at 11:02 am

        (I wondered how long it would take. It was still up when I posted.)

        Women's Hour BBC, talking with Nancy Kelley, current CEO of Stonewall and touching on the transphobic label ascribed to JK Rowling.

        • Molly 4.1.1.1
          21 November 2021 at 1:31 pm

          Another quote from Nancy Kelley, when trying to stop the publication of the BBC article on the cotton ceiling: 'We're being pressured into sex by some trans women

          The BBC won much praise for its investigation, which prompted some lesbians to express their anger at how they felt ostracised for wishing to form relationships only with women.

          Campaigner Kat Howard wrote that she was ‘incredibly grateful to Caroline Lowbridge, and the BBC for this article’, adding: ‘We need help protecting young lesbians everywhere from an LGBT community that would rather see them silenced than stand up to the male perpetrators of assault.’

          Yet now it has emerged that months before the article appeared Stonewall’s chief executive Nancy Kelley wrote to the editorial director of BBC News to denounce Lowbridge’s work in an apparent attempt to get her piece stopped.

          In her email, Kelley suggested that the BBC article would end up being ‘transphobic’ because it represented trans women as ‘sexual predators’, which was a ‘central anti-trans argument’.

          She further complained that the ‘highly toxic’ cotton ceiling issue was ‘analogous to issues like sexual racism’.

          – Trans lobby group Stonewall brands lesbians 'sexual racists' for raising concerns about being pressured into having sex with transgender women who still have male genitals – The Mail on Sunday.

          And this is the woman who declared in Women's Hour interview that she wanted more influence:

          Ms Kelley added: "In reality, I don't think we've had any real influence over editorial policy. It will be lovely to have more, we would love to be able to kind of have a great amount of influence over the way that the LGBTQ stories are covered by everyone."

          "We'd love to have more influence in the world, we want to grow more inclusive," she said.

          It is understood that it took many months of editorial discussions before the article was published on October 26.

          Stonewall has appeared to confirm that changes were made to the original piece, although it remains unclear whether this was as a direct result of the leaked email, sent in September 2020.

          • francesca 4.1.1.1.1
            21 November 2021 at 9:13 pm

            Some back pedalling from Stonewall

            Critics say that organisations are in effect paying a lobby group to promote their policies. Dundee University confirmed yesterday that it had replaced “mother” and “father” with gender-neutral alternatives after feedback from its application for the index.

            Explaining why the university scored only five out of 15 points on its policies, Stonewall wrote: “We recommend that you remove the terms mother and father from the body of your policies . . . we’d recommend using gender-neutral language in the body of the policy.”

            After some backlash

            Stonewall has dropped guidance advising groups on its workplace schemes to remove the word “mother” from their policies.

            https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/411482bc-4984-11ec-aa43-5cc5157b09b9?shareToken=a9f1413e89b1ec6780cfc69715813aaa

      • Molly 4.1.2
        21 November 2021 at 1:40 pm

        Follow up tweet here. All comments I read were about the doxxing and stalking, and reminders they may be acting unlawfully…“aka serious and threatening transphobic messages.”

        https://twitter.com/Richard_Energy_/status/1462128840889798665

    • Anker 4.2
      21 November 2021 at 11:24 am

      Bastards.

  5. weka 5
    21 November 2021 at 10:18 am

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  6. Patricia Bremner 6
    21 November 2021 at 10:42 am

    Apparently ZB stations are going to amplify the Groundswell protest? They intend to open vehicle windows and play their message loudly. Will watch with interest to see if they attract people they would rather not…antivax, gun lobby, to name a couple.

  7. Puckish Rogue 7
    21 November 2021 at 11:28 am

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/all-blacks/300455809/recap-france-ensure-shaky-all-blacks-finish-season-with-backtoback-losses

    So glad the All Blacks management decided to renew Ian Fosters contract and not sound out:

    1. Scott Robertson

    2. Jamie Joseph and Tony Brown

    3. Dave Rennie

    • bwaghorn 7.1
      21 November 2021 at 11:38 am

      The french were on fire in that first half, the abs looked flat footed and tired, the second half was a ripper, shame about the result but I enjoyed it, after all its just entertainment,

      As a mate said atleast we haven't peaked to soon for the world cup

      • Puckish Rogue 7.1.1
        21 November 2021 at 11:43 am

        'As a mate said at least we haven't peaked to soon for the world cup'

        We most certainly haven't laugh

    • Blazer 7.2
      21 November 2021 at 11:45 am

      A few more records for Foster today…including 1st time the AB's have lost at Stade DF for 21 years…Foster has a woeful record as a head coach.

      Has never coached a championship winning side.

      Old dinosaur ,oldboy network dud.

      Retalick,Whitelock,Moodie all past their use by date .

      Poor selection,no postive game plan,plenty of lame excuses.

      • Puckish Rogue 7.2.1
        21 November 2021 at 11:53 am

        I don't mind the All Blacks losing, its how they're losing is the issue to me.

        • Descendant Of Smith 7.2.1.1
          21 November 2021 at 2:26 pm

          Yeah they seem far too dependent on "moments of brilliance" rather than having any substantial gameplan they can execute.

          Even when our plan was "be fitter than every other team and win in the last twenty minutes if we have to" – really started by Mourie when he was captain – you knew at least what the gameplan was. Other teams fitness has caught up and we don't seem to have any tactics or gameplan at all. Alternatively we used to wear the opposition down in the forwards first – maybe we need to go back to that. Certainly aimless kicking isn't working.

          • Puckish Rogue 7.2.1.1.1
            21 November 2021 at 2:57 pm

            Whats the point of having guys that have played the game for 20 plus years and then drill them into a strait jacket

            Makes no point

            • Descendant Of Smith 7.2.1.1.1.1
              21 November 2021 at 3:14 pm

              You seem to be able to only think in extremes. You've posed the question which is quite different from what I was saying so I guess you'll have to answer that yourself.

    • Ad 7.3
      21 November 2021 at 12:02 pm

      My boss is French and Rugby mad.

      It's going to be unliveable at work on Monday.

    • Pete 7.4
      21 November 2021 at 3:31 pm

      Not sound out? And not seriously look at all factors?

    • weka 9.1
      21 November 2021 at 11:44 am

      that one btw is where white working class men can politically ally with feminists (assuming they're ok with women having our own politics). However it does rely on acknowledging that discrimination is also a thing.

      To the anti-woke I would say: that solidarity politics across class and groups that experience discrimination has been subsumed into neoliberalism doesn't mean that discrimination isn't an important political issue.

      To the woke I would say: stop fudging the differences between class oppression and discrimination because it's handing power to the neolibs on a plate.

  11. Molly 11
    21 November 2021 at 4:41 pm

    Looking at NZ legislation for Human Rights:

    Section 21 Prohibited grounds of discrimination

    (1) For the purposes of this Act, the prohibited grounds of discrimination are—

    (a) sex, which includes pregnancy and childbirth:

    (b) marital status, which means being— list provided

    (c) religious belief:

    (d) ethical belief, which means the lack of a religious belief, whether in respect of a particular religion or religions or all religions:

    (e) colour:

    (f) race:

    (g) ethnic or national origins, which includes nationality or citizenship:

    (h) disability, which means— list provided

    (i) age, which means,— list provided

    (j) political opinion, which includes the lack of a particular political opinion or any political opinion:

    (k) employment status, which means— list provided

    (l) family status, which means— list provided

    (m) sexual orientation, which means a heterosexual, homosexual, lesbian, or bisexual orientation.

    The Human Rights Commission has the following:

    • Human Rights Act 1993 – It is unlawful to discriminate against anyone in New Zealand because of their sexual orientation or sex/gender identity. These include applying for a job, at work, in education and health care, in government agencies’ policies and practice, and when you buy things or pay for services.

    The Students Rights NZ website also states:

    Can I attend a single-sex school of my chosen gender?

    Human Rights Act 1993, s 21

    Yes. You have the right to freedom from discrimination on the grounds of sex, which includes gender and gender identity. However, the school may ask for proof of your gender or of your intention to transition.

    I'm not as up to the play on legislation processes as others here, so my questions are:

    1. To me these interpretations of the discrimination term – sex are incorrect. The discriminatory practices were on the basis of biological sex. There is no provided list of descriptors as there are for disability and marital status.
    2. If this change conflating sex and gender identity did take place at legislative level, when did it happen?
    3. Where was the public discussion?
    4. What does this mean for discrimination based on biological sex?
    5. Should the Human Rights Commission (and other bodies) be interpreting the law in such a way if it has not been through legislative processes?
  12. Fireblade 12
    21 November 2021 at 6:24 pm

    Newshub Poll

    Labour – 42.7%

    National – 26.9%

    ACT – 16%

    Greens – 7.2%

    Māori Party – 2.1%

    NZ First – 2.5%

    • observer 12.1
      21 November 2021 at 6:30 pm

      Also Luxon and Bridges surging up to … 2.5%. So still less popular than their very unpopular leader.

      Anyway, Tuesday is National's last chance for a change (after that there's a week's recess and a change in December means the voters don't notice, no honeymoon, wasted opportunity).

      Prediction: Simon Bridges will be leader in 48 hours.

      • weka 12.1.1
        21 November 2021 at 6:59 pm

        Aren't they waiting for Luxon? If they put Bridges in now and then have to change to Luxon before the election they'll look even more like numpties.

      • AB 12.1.2
        21 November 2021 at 7:21 pm

        Nobody with the ability to win wants the Nat leadership now. And maybe not even before 2023 if we bounce fairly well out of Covid next year due to 90+% vax rates and a sensibly cautious dismantling of public health restrictions.

      • georgecom 12.1.3
        21 November 2021 at 8:48 pm

        The next leader of a National Government will be…….

        David Seymour

  13. bwaghorn 13
    21 November 2021 at 7:04 pm

    WTF Talleys have oversite on their workers FUCKING ACC CLAIMS, fuck you labour you are dead to me if you dont fix this