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Open mike 22/02/2020

Written By: - Date published: 7:00 am, February 22nd, 2020 - 72 comments
Categories: open mike - Tags:

Open mike is your post.

For announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose.

The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the Policy).

Step up to the mike …

72 comments on “Open mike 22/02/2020 ”

  1. Ross 1

    And on a related issue:

    ”New Zealand is one of the few countries in the world that sees a significant increase in deaths during the colder months. Over and above the usual heart attacks and car accidents, an additional 1600 people die here every winter, mostly due to respiratory and circulatory diseases and the effects of poorly insulated homes that are hard to heat. That's one in every 3000 of our people, with children and the elderly disproportionately affected.

    But cold, damp housing is one unsexy problem we know how to fix: it doesn't require a vaccine and it will even help reduce our carbon footprint. A bit of legislation and a few grants for retrofitting will produce huge dividends in terms of the nation's wellbeing.”

    https://i.stuff.co.nz/life-style/homed/houses/119620763/coronavirus-new-disease-old-problem

    [lprent: I moved this comment to Open Mike as being off topic or irrelevant in the post it was made in. Obvious after you look at the immediate responses by you and others. If you want to start a conversation about something else, then do it OpenMike or your own site. ]

    • Andre 1.1

      What's in the way of improving the emissions profile profile of our vehicle fleet and improving our housing stock stock to create better living conditions for our people?

      Oh right, it's WinnieFirst in the way of doing both. That's what the OP was about.

      • Ross 1.1.1

        What's in the way of improving the emissions profile profile of our vehicle fleet and improving our housing stock stock to create better living conditions for our people?

        What's in the way of funding every drug that lobby groups want?

        "Out of 304 modern medicines funded internationally, between 2011 and 2017, only 17 were funded in New Zealand…Since the Government took office at the end of 2017, there have been 13 petitions calling for Pharmac to fund specific medicines, and 11 have been received since the start of May."

        Spending has to be prioritised. I'm not sure that reducing emissions by a tiny fraction over the next 20 years will have the same impact that better insulated homes would have. However, the Government and others may well disagree.

        https://www.newsroom.co.nz/2019/08/19/760762/lack-of-transparency-hampers-cancer-drug-debate

        • Andre 1.1.1.1

          It is possible to divert from literally every possible topic of discussion by whining about some aspect of a completely unrelated topic.

          But it doesn't do much to promote any kind of rational discussion.

          edit: the feebate scheme was designed to be revenue-neutral, so controlling government spending isn’t an argument against it.

    • Cinny 2.1

      Chris the complaint hasn't even been fully processed let alone ruled on.

      Meanwhile….. The National Party has had adverse rulings from the ASA on five separate complaints of misleading advertising since Simon Bridges became leader.

  2. ianmac 3

    Perhaps Labour has caught on to the double dog whistle used by National.

    By the time National reacts to the ad and Chris raises it to us, the real message is to everyone, that this Government is giving us 12 new life saving machines. Thank goodness for that. Let us quibble over the detail but the message gets through.

    • Chris T 3.1

      So when one party does it, it is dirty politics and the other doing it, it is quibbling to point it out?

      Must remember that.

      • mauī 3.1.1

        Shocking as it may be Chris.. some parties lie, cheat etc to gain advantage while others are more truthful and well intentioned. A pity that too many right wingers are blinded by their own dogma to see this.

      • Peter 3.1.2

        Remember a particular Health Minister flaunting figures about the number of operations under his watch which on checking turned out to be 'interesting.'

        (Paraphrased and exaggerated for effect but the guts is right, this is the essence. )

        "We're brilliant and amazing. We're on to it. We've carried out 11, 000 operations over the period."

        Implications and assumptions made that it's hips, and hearts and knees.

        And it turns out that 10, 300 of them were for squeezing eye-drops into people's eyes.

        I'm pretty certain it was Jonathan Coleman. He probably then went out to bat with "There is no housing crisis."

        • Chris T 3.1.2.1

          So your high bar for Labour is after a earnest promise of a positive and factual election is anything goes as long as you can give an example of another party doing the same thing?

          • aom 3.1.2.1.1

            …. and your bar is so low that you continue reiterating the implied assertion that the promise had been broken, despite the complaint having not been investigated by the appropriate body.

            • Chris T 3.1.2.1.1.1

              Fair point.

              Was just going on the fact the Ministry of Health probably wouldn't lie in a publication.

              You are right though. We will wait and see.

          • Peter 3.1.2.1.2

            No, I just wonder if righteousness about being totally frank and honest come late to some in life. Maybe realisations come as people age or they possibly have some religious experience which puts them on the right path.

            Or when lying and dishonesty were all about them they were too young to realise.

            It's just that it's weird when bullshitters who champion and defend other bullshitters get so bloody precious when they think someone else is bullshitting.

            How about just accepting it's how the game is played, it's how you wanted it played, maybe by your acceptance you have dictated how the game is played.

            The biggest joke is the pitiful complaint about 'they said they were going to have positive and factual election' and look what they're doing. I'm telling mum!'

            Meanwhile Simon Bullshitter and Bennett have free rein and because they didn't use the words 'positive and factual election' it will be business as usual and those with the dispensable ethics and morals will love it.

            • Chris T 3.1.2.1.2.1

              Only one party in NZ has the PR produced, caring, sharing, inclusive, transparent leader.

              This is fine, but don't play the victim when it comes out as bollocks on a fairly regular basis.

              • McFlock

                Hey, the nats try to portray Bridges as competent and having the full support of his caucus, so "the nats do it too" lol

                But to be serious, it all depends on the wording on the claim and what the nats actually did. Maybe it dances on the head of a pin, or maybe they made a categorical claim without trying to disprove it (which would indeed be a great disappointment).

                No doubt you'll be keen to tell us all how the complaint is resolved regardless of whether it is upheld or not.

                • Chris T

                  I don't really care.

                  I just know all parties twist stats and figures, the Nats are better at it (or more inclined), but for one lot to claim some kind of moral high ground is pretty funny.

                  Especially when they announce on national tv they won't do it

                  For every SFO charge against the ex-Nat bully boy atm, there is a Winston pretending to pay money back that was dodgy and a foundation and a Labour doing illegal pledge cards

                  • Incognito

                    … Labour doing illegal pledge cards

                    Pray tell. That’s pretty bad and should be investigated by SFO too.

                    • Chris T

                      Threw it in there just to shake up the Labourites pretending to be pure as the whitened snow.

                      🙂

                    • Incognito []

                      Oh, I see, you were making up things and creating a false equivalence. For a sec, I thought you had something of substance.

                      Because we had some decent rain, I won’t moderate you yet for your self-confessed wind-up 😉

                    • Chris T

                      It isn't a self confessed wind up.

                      It is an example of Labour being just as dodge as every other party in the past.

                      I just get tired of people pretending their party are holier than thou, when they all have a history of not being so

                    • Incognito []

                      At 10:30 AM you posted a comment that wasn’t remotely funny despite the

                      (I’m joking!)

                      I gave you a subtle thumbs down (you may have missed it), not because it wasn’t funny, but because it was a wind-up.

                      At 4:12 PM you did it again and added a smiley face this time.

                      A pledge card is not equivalent to being charged by SFO (I know that technically the National Party is not being charged).

                      You also created a strawman.

                      If you want to make a point here, you’ll have do better than making it look like a wind-up. Either you’re not trying hard enough or you’re incapable. Or both.

                      In summary, you come across like a wind-up troll and because I don’t have a sense of humour, I tend to ban commenters like you.

                      🙂

                    • Chris T

                      To be honest if you wanted actual opinion. I am a bit down on the whole bloody lot of them.

                      No one seems to actually care about how the country runs as the short 3 year election cycle means the politicians all walk round trying not to offend anyone.

                      The older I get the more annoying it is

                    • Incognito []

                      I hear you but I disagree about painting them all with same brush.

                      I wish they’d embrace MMP in the spirit it was intended, and improve it! I think it’d be good for the country as a whole; it is not a magic bullet.

                    • Chris T

                      Call me a cynic, but they are all pretty much the same now IMHO.

                    • Incognito []

                      Maybe you’re not paying enough attention to nuance and detail to notice the differences.

                      You said as much @ 7:41 PM below.

                      Maybe you’re a lazy cherry picker like so many others who only want to confirm their beliefs and biases. It doesn’t make you a cynic; it makes you strangely human 😉

                    • Chris T

                      Maybe your right.

                      But every now and again an actual substantial, societal shifting bill turns up, I strongly think about and this time it happened to come from ACT.

                      Would never vote for the bloke, but I will certainly vote for his bill in the referendum.

                      Weed I am still mulling over. Was a yes for yonks, but am having misgivings, if you know what I mean. Probably still will vote yes, but have concerns over it.

                  • McFlock

                    Seeing as you restricted it to only one of the nat-associated-at-the-time donors/bagmen/aspiring candidates currently facing charges to claim equivalence, it's quite obviously a false equivalence.

                    And that's without pointing out that comparing one party with three is also a false equivalence (but I can see why you didn't want to include ACT, the list of their associates charged with criminal activities would kick your equivalence out of the park).

                    • Chris T

                      You give me too much credit in brains and motive. I just take little notice of ACT.

                      Apart from the euthanasia bill which I support.

                    • McFlock

                      Copy that: your argument that there is equivalence between govt and opposition when it comes to trustworthiness is based on obviously flawed data.

                    • Chris T

                      In what way?

                      Clark promised stuff she didn't do. And did dodgy stuff

                      Key promised things he didn't do. And did dodgy stuff

                      Ardern promised things she hasn't done. And though not yet (if you discount the sexual assaults) will probably do dodgy stuff

                    • McFlock

                      Insufficient sampling of party records, for a start.

                      The only equivalence you've uncovered is that nobody is perfect. But "pretty much the same"? To make that call, you'd actually need to know what you were talking about.

                      Fun fact: Matthew Broderick killed more people than Charles Manson. Would you say thay're "pretty much the same"?

                    • Chris T

                      Don't answer the question then.

                      No skin off my nose

                    • McFlock

                      You asked in what way your data was flawed.

                      First line of my reply:

                      Insufficient sampling of party records, for a start.

                      Obviously you didn't notice that, either.

                      An additional way is the clear selection bias in focussing only on JLR rather than the co-accused who also had close National Party connections beyond JLR.

                    • Chris T

                      I have no idea what you are going on about.

                      You said my opinion was flawed by data without actually giving any

                      Maybe do a post in coherent english

                    • McFlock

                      You said that your argument of equivalence did not include ACT because you took little notice of it.

                      That's a major hole in your data.

                      What about that do you have difficulty understanding?

                    • Chris T

                      No. I just left them out as they are the only ones I have seen no dodgy dealings from with finances.

                      They may have done some I have not heard of, and it doesn't make me want to vote for them, but it just means while I think politicians from all sides do dodgy things, I ain't seen any from them enough to include them

                      I don't know how much clearer I can be.

                    • McFlock

                      So now your story is changing. Initially you said you didn't include them because you "take little notice of ACT. "

                      Now it's "as they are the only ones I have seen no dodgy dealings from with finances"?

                      At the very least, one would determine the other. And that's only after you managed to focus a thread about truthfulness in political advertising down to party finances scandals.

                      Oh, and ACT were involved in the 2005 funding thing, so add that tally to the opposition side.

    • Rosemary McDonald 4.1

      Damn! We listened with growing anticipation that this was going to be one of those classic Him Kill interviews where she coldly and quietly corrals her quarry into the pit trap and a bloody demise.

      But, just when she had him perfectly lined up for the kill she pulled back, and showed him uncharacteristic mercy.

      Which is more than he deserves.

      A must hear interview, and thanks gsays for posting.

    • Incognito 4.2

      What I would have liked to hear more about is not his ideas or arguments but his motivations and what makes him tick. He came across as very cerebral unless he feels attacked. Still, an interview worth listening to.

  3. A 5

    Yep, I know it's old news but doesn't JA make you proud?

    Here is a link to Guardian article about a new kind of soft power

    In the profile, author Belinda Luscombe describes Ardern as a “millennial woman” and writes of the prime minister: “Ardern’s real gift is her ability to articulate a form of leadership that embodies strength and sanity, while also pushing an agenda of compassion and community”, adding that Ardern has “infused New Zealand with a new kind of soft power” and doesn’t have to request meetings with world leaders anymore, they are now lining up to be associated with her.

    • Cinny 5.1

      Jacinda is possibly the most internationally influencial PM that NZ has ever seen. heart

      • Chris T 5.1.2

        Just a shame it doesn't translate into domestic

        • Anne 5.1.2.1

          There's an old cliche Chris T:

          Jealousy will get you nowhere. But its true.

          • Chris T 5.1.2.1.1

            There is also an old tale called "The Emporers new clothes".

            Long story short someone promises something amazing will be delivered.

            The fans of the promiser were in such awe when it arrived (in that case a set of clothes) they paraded them as if they were there.

            In the end they actually got thin air

            And still try to convince themselves it has arrived.

            Uncanny

          • Rapunzel 5.1.2.1.2

            It's purely that.

            I see above but the "reply" is missing the same old accusations that the "scandals" are a deep entrenched issue within the "Labour" Party and have never happened before nor will they ever again. That poster couldn't lie straight in bed – such things are unacceptable but a by-product of any gathering or association of any number of people. To even suggest that the PM would countenance it or was aware of it or didn't demand that it was managed properly is complete and utter BS & as you say borne of bitter jealousies & some fake suggestion that the National Party are as pure as driven snow. I think people know better & any impression given of that is more down to pure luck

      • sumsuch 5.1.3

        'Influential'. Yet I find her a hypocrite between her poor-speak and her poor-do. Last chance, if she wins the next election as miraculously as she won her first. Until then I find her as shallow as the powerful around the world desire in their politicians. I prefer Peter Fraser pushing our ideals. Everything about her is an indictment of easy. Til 2000 we thought social-democrat, after … this slippery diarrheic new establishment of a solid 45% for the elite.

  4. joe90 6

    A biblical disaster in the making if COVID-19 reaches the millions of displaced Syrians in the region.

    (Google translate: Minister of Health: The first confirmed case of corona virus was recorded in Lebanon)

    https://bnonews.com/index.php/2020/02/the-latest-coronavirus-cases/

    #covid-19

  5. Philip Ferguson 8

    As the Israeli state has been losing the battle for hearts and minds internationally, it has stepped up its propaganda efforts through activities like luring western journalists to Israel on junkets. These include NZ journalists. All very reminiscent of the activities of the South African state during the apartheid era. Unfortunately, some NZ journalists put their sense of entitlement to junkets ahead of the rights of the Palestinians to be free. . .

    https://rdln.wordpress.com/2020/02/12/nz-journalists-junket-on-palestinian-corpses/

    • sumsuch 8.1

      This prick Bloomberg just pays everyone off, the logical end of the Romo-American Republic. Quite large support behind Biden among Blacks. Money to their groups. The elite now want Oprah or Michelle Obama to save them from Trump as the only possibility, or implicitly from small d democrats.

  6. Philip Ferguson 9

    Moreover, the NZ journos went junketing in Israel in the midst of a new clampdown by the Israeli state on the secular Palestinian left.

    https://rdln.wordpress.com/2020/02/19/israel-state-was-cracking-down-on-palestinian-left-as-nz-junketeers-visited-israel/

  7. joe90 10

    Say it ain't so, Bern.

    • arkie 10.1

      “Unlike Donald Trump, I do not consider Vladimir Putin a good friend,” the statement said. “He is an autocratic thug who is attempting to destroy democracy and crush dissent in Russia. Let’s be clear, the Russians want to undermine American democracy by dividing us up and, unlike the current president, I stand firmly against their efforts, and any other foreign power that wants to interfere in our election.”

      https://www.politico.com/news/2020/02/21/bernie-sanders-condemns-russian-116640

    • Morrissey 10.2

      The Russians, like the Americans, like anyone with an I.Q. above room temperature, want Sanders to be elected. You, and the DNC shills with which you relentlessly and shamelessly pollute this site, have no evidence that Bernie Sanders is a tool or a dupe of the Russians.

  8. joe90 11

    Canada's largest daily;

    Film critic Donald Trump reaches into his racist, rat-chewed box of Froot Loops to mock ‘Parasite’ and Brad Pitt

    […]

    Now that he has solved climate change, eliminated the debt, fixed health care, built a wall, won the trade wars, ended election meddling, killed the terrorists and landed on Mars, Donald Trump is a film critic.

    And he has a few things he needs to get off his man boobs.

    At a deranged rally in Colorado on Thursday, the U.S. president took a break from ranting about witch hunts and fake news to fixate on a more urgent matter: why did “Parasite” win Best Picture?

    Isn’t that like a Syrian refugee winning “American Idol”?

    Why don’t we just give an MTV Video Music Award to a pile of chopsticks?

    “How bad were the Academy Awards this year?” Trump asked his cult members, who held their mouth-breathing long enough to boo. “Did you see? And the winner is … a movie from South Korea! What the hell was that all about? We’ve got enough problems with South Korea, with trade. On top of it, they give ’em the best movie of the year?”

    https://www.thestar.com/entertainment/opinion/2020/02/21/film-critic-donald-trump-reaches-into-his-racist-rat-chewed-box-of-froot-loops-to-mock-parasite-and-brad-pitt.html

    • Morrissey 11.1

      "Mouth-breathers"…. "cult members"…"deranged". That also applies to the likes of Rachel Maddow and their sad believers.

  9. Eco Maori 12

    Kia Ora The Am Show.

    Purple poppy day a day to remember the animals in service it good to show respect for animals.

    Reality is Vaping is less harmful than Smoking.

    Human cause climate change is our reality if we let deniers win tangata and wildlife will suffer.

    Ka kite Ano .

  10. Eco Maori 13

    Kia Ora Newshub.

    Its Organized crime who is pushing manufacturer drugs that is wreaking havoc in New Zealand.?????.

    There you go A Kiwi having to forage in daylight hours being a nocturnal bird.?? Cause human caused climate change.

    Poverty will have a big influence on truancy both parents working to pay rent no one to check on the tamariki.

    Ka kite Ano

  11. Eco Maori 14

    Kia Ora Te Ao Maori News.

    Its good to see North land railways getting a funding boost. Rail is the most efficient way to transport tangata and goods.

    I don't think that's the new laws are going to effect Vaping negatively.

    The filming industry can provide a lot of mahi for Aotearoa.

    Its good to see Maori successful on in the World.

    Ka kite Ano

  12. Eco Maori 15

    Kia Ora The Am Show

    That's cool Mars quakes it is cool that there is the technology to explore Mars.

    #Metoo is good for our worlds society's #equality.

    Ka kite Ano

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