Open mike 22/04/2024

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, April 22nd, 2024 - 50 comments
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50 comments on “Open mike 22/04/2024 ”

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  1. dv 1
    22 April 2024 at 7:35 am

    https://thedailyblog.co.nz/2024/04/22/guest-blog-bryan-bruce-the-manufactured-economic-crisis-justifying-slashing-public-services

    At a time when his Coalition government are using a manufactured economic “crisis” to slash public service jobs in areas such as health and primary industries, Prime Minister Luxon revelaed on Newshub last night that he has 7 employees working on his and his Party’s social media output.

    When asked about the amount of time he spent on social media, Luxon ( who describes himself as “the tik tok King ” ) said:

    “I tell you I spend more time preparing and thinking about the questions that [Newshub Political Editor] Jenna Lynch asks me rather than actually thinking about how I can actually communicate with people across New Zealand.

    UNbloody believable

  2. Tiger Mountain 2
    22 April 2024 at 9:35 am

    Call me old fashioned, but the PSA should be taking strategic industrial action right now on the thousands of public servant and contractor job slashings–and please don’t bother raising technicalities such as bargaining process agreements and “political neutrality” tradition.

    Te Pāti Māori, Forest & Bird, and Greens amongst many others have been doing well, Labour taking it slow, which was understandable pre Xmas, but they need to get way more active too. This is serious ruling class war on the Aotearoa NZ state that generations have built up previously inclusive of the substantial neo liberal interruption of the State Sector and Reserve Bank Acts etc.

    Waiting it out till 2026 is not an option with this CoC Govt. of vandals.

    • Anne 2.1
      22 April 2024 at 11:51 am

      I think Labour is responding TM but they are being left out of the loop. I've noted that TV1 does not always report Labour's responses yet when looking online the next day I will discover that Chris Hipkins or some shadow minister did respond but we never saw it.

      Doesn't surprise me. I have the impression there's a lot of 'sucking up' occurring because the news agencies who rely on some Govt. funding fear they might be next in line for punishment if they stray too far from the NActF line. In other words, they're being blackmailed – not that there will be any emails etc. in existence to prove it. They don't have to… the writing is on the wall for all to see.

      • Tiger Mountain 2.1.1
        22 April 2024 at 12:06 pm

        Yes, there are patsy interviews all over at the moment, including RNZ. The outrage and horror over 3 Waters…and diddly said about 3 Ministers seemingly being able to fast track whatever they want.

        • Bearded Git 2.1.1.1
          22 April 2024 at 3:06 pm

          Yes Ingrid Hipkins was useless as usual on RNZ Morning Report today when talking to Chris Bishop, one of the Gang of Three. She failed to pursue the anti democratic nature of the Fast Track Bill, or the corruption angle where some people on The List are National Party donors.

      • gsays 2.1.2
        22 April 2024 at 12:39 pm

        Strange you should have that view- media outlets wary of a hand that feeds them.

        Critics of the lolly scramble Public Interest Journalism Fund said that when it was introduced.

        Such a shame, either through incompetence, arrogance or inertia the merger of RNZ/TVNZ couldn't be made to happen under Jackson's/Curran's watch

        • Traveller 2.1.2.1
          22 April 2024 at 1:01 pm

          "Strange you should have that view- media outlets wary of a hand that feeds them. Critics of the lolly scramble Public Interest Journalism Fund said that when it was introduced."

          And with good reason.

          "Such a shame, either through incompetence, arrogance or inertia the merger of RNZ/TVNZ couldn't be made to happen under Jackson's/Curran's watch"

          Steve Maharey wrote a (paywalled It is possible to save the media: Steve Maharey – NZ Herald) piece on the media recently, in which he described the merger as a "fool’s errand because the two entities are from different worlds. One is oil, the other is water".

          • SPC 2.1.2.1.1
            22 April 2024 at 1:18 pm

            Sure the correct option was to move TVNZ (one channel broadcast and OnDemand digital) to direct funding first.

            TV2 (ads) and OnDemand digital (local rights-subscriber fee) business – floated off as a separate company.

            Then the move to digital – with SKY taking over the broadcast of free to air broadcast channels (so the old offline and isolated areas are still provided with a service).

            TVNZ remaining as is has led to the mess.

            Sans TV3 news etc, there is opening for a floated off TV 2 to do this.

            • Traveller 2.1.2.1.1.1
              22 April 2024 at 1:49 pm

              Maharey advocates selling off TVNZ completely, putting the money into a trust to convert RNZ into "a 21st-century media organisation covering everything from broadcasting to social media and print".

              I'm not sure what TVNZ would be worth?

              As for the PIJF, Maharey has something of a swipe:

              "It is vital the new organisation be independent of government. Any legislation should be free from the kind of instructions the previous Government loaded into its otherwise sensible and still-needed Public Interest Journalism policy."

              • Drowsy M. Kram …
                22 April 2024 at 2:00 pm

                "It is vital the new organisation be independent of government. Any legislation should be free from the kind of instructions the previous Government loaded into its otherwise sensible and still-needed Public Interest Journalism policy."

                Agreed re the PIJF – hope Wong is listening/reading. What’s our CoC govt's position on funding public interest journalism – do they have one? Suspect Seymour considers it a waste of precious money, right up there with school lunches, but you never know.

                https://www.nzonair.govt.nz/funding/journalism-funding/

              • SPC …
                22 April 2024 at 2:04 pm

                He is probably right about PIJF, it and NZ On Air are funding, not the vehicle for a controlling interest.

                My approach is better than his, as per broadcasting structure – as you note TVNZ has little value (except as part of a monopoly).

                It's interesting he wants a state owned organisation involved in print (not just digital news) and social media – that for mine is another issue.

                • Traveller …
                  22 April 2024 at 2:17 pm

                  I agree, and yes print media seems like a weird one to be considering investing in.

                  Re TVNZ – for me it should be a single channel public service broadcaster, fully funded and with editorial independence. We could then enjoy some in depth/long format analysis of issues, and (surely!) some better programming.

              • Phillip ure …
                22 April 2024 at 6:07 pm

                Kinda rare to agree with mahary…but I do…

        • newsense 2.1.2.2
          22 April 2024 at 2:34 pm

          Bullshit beat up that owes more to fevered imagination than truth and has now seen journalists, under funded and very under appreciated, seen as legitimate targets for attack.

          It’s seen as fertile territory for Winnie and so we know less about what councils and companies are doing around the country. Our quiet family oriented cronyism has turned in an island banana republic.

      • Phillip ure 2.1.3
        22 April 2024 at 5:46 pm

        @ Anne .

        Re labour being ignored….I can understand that…

        I know what my recent reaction was to Phil Twyford popping up to pontificate on social housing..

        I watched gape-mouthed..as he banged on about what this gummint should do…

        As an example of bare-faced cheek…it'd be hard to beat..

        And my initial reaction was to urge him to just fornicate off ..

        And to a lesser degree I feel much the same about other labour spokespeople…and it follows a theme..much along the lines of..'ok..so why the hell didn't you do it/that when you were in office…?'

        It's too soon..!..they are jumping the gun…

        We are yet to see/hear the mea culpas…and the defining of how they would do things differently next time..in finite detail..(don't worry..!..this rightwing cabal won't steal them… would that they would..)

        Until that process has happened…I am more than happy not to hear from/see them..

        I am still too pissed off at them…

    • Dolomedes III 2.2
      22 April 2024 at 12:52 pm

      So Tiger you don't believe "political neutrality" should be required of public servants?

      As for "This is serious ruling class war on the Aotearoa NZ state". For God's sake Tiger, the PSA IS the ruling class in Wellington.

      And as several commentators have pointed out, the cuts to date barely scratch the surface of the bloat that occurred under Ardern and Hipkins.

      https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/350249071/public-service-cuts-situation-not-simple-it-seems

      • Traveller 2.2.1
        22 April 2024 at 1:02 pm

        yes

      • weka 2.2.2
        22 April 2024 at 1:19 pm

        Teachers were at the forefront of the political protests in the early 90s. Are you saying they shouldn't?

        • Dolomedes III 2.2.2.1
          22 April 2024 at 2:07 pm

          I'm not sure which protests you mean Weka, as I was out of the country then. Should teachers be at the forefront of protests? It depends – if they're protesting for higher pay for teachers, that seems fair enough. But (for an imaginary example) "Teachers for/against co-governance" – no, they shouldn't be engaging in that kind of protest. As private individuals they are of course free to protest about whatever bugs them. But marching for/against non-teaching issues under a "teachers" banner discredits teachers in the eyes of anyone who's on the other side of the issue. And if teachers unions turn into "social justice" platforms (as mine did), right-wing or even centrist governments will quite reasonably look at alternative education options like charter schools. Some people don't want their kids being taught by "social justice" activists.

          • weka 2.2.2.1.1
            22 April 2024 at 2:14 pm

            Oh please. Unions are social justice activist organisations, that's the whole point. To represent the workers.

            If a teacher worked at Auckland Grammar and protested with a banner saying as much, you would have a point. But a teacher protesting a political issue saying they are a teacher, there's nothing wrong with that.

            • Dolomedes III 2.2.2.1.1.1
              22 April 2024 at 2:21 pm

              Representing the workers doesn't equate to what contemporary leftists call "social justice". Representing the workers means just that – pushing for better pay and working conditions for workers in the relevant industry. That is all.

              • Descendant Of Smith …
                22 April 2024 at 3:06 pm

                Nah it is fine for unions to support each other, the wider union movement and union movements across the world and social issues.

                Employers do not confine themselves to just running their businesses – in fact they spend tens of millions lobbying for broader interests.

                Confining them to only their own workplace interests is a current neo-liberal and right wing and legislative constraint that Labour could have removed but did not. Just as they could have removed the restriction on going on strike outside of expired agreements or for specific health and safety reasons.

                (Though Darien Fenton apparently thinks you can get unions to strike at any time)

                Union movements were successful because they weren't confined to what you think they should be – employers used political power to constrain them. Fuck off with your chains.

              • weka …
                22 April 2024 at 4:16 pm

                Ok, so you don't know what unions are. But I was asking you what you thought, not what you think leftists think. Should teachers be able to protest on the streets on issues that matter to them? What about other public servants? Nurses? MPs? Scientists? How about DOC workers going to a SS4C march?

                • Dolomedes III …
                  22 April 2024 at 6:01 pm

                  "Ok, so you don't know what unions are" sounds a bit patronizing, weka.

                  As I've said, teachers, nurses, scientists, bureaucrats, DOC workers etc are free to participate in any protest they like – as private individuals. But the moment they put up a banner saying (for example) "Teachers for Co-governance" or "Scientists for Gaza" – they've lost the plot. And they will damage the credibility of their professional bodies (whether unions or associations) in the eyes of people who sit on the other side of the issue. And there is another side to nearly all issues (the Holocaust and apartheid come to mind as exceptions). Academia is losing the trust of the public because there is so much activism by academics – some people now do not trust academics to handle the evidence honestly, because of their activism. The NZ Association of Scientists comes to mind – they have damaged the reputation of scientists by promoting maatauranga Maaori as "co-equal" with so-called "Western science".

                  • weka …
                    23 April 2024 at 9:28 am

                    dunno if it's patronising, but why not address the point?

                    I'm in favour of robust debate, and consider it core to democracy. If a professional body or association wants to take a politics position, then let them, so long as the mechanisms for critique are enabled and functional across society. The problem isn't the expression of political views, it's where we don't have good process to work that through eg pressures on MSM to cover only certain stories or in certain ways.

                    Suppressing political expression takes us down a different path, and it's a really bad one. We need to know what people are thinking. This doesn't mean free rein, it just means that there are better responses than making people stfu.

                    There are limits on that eg a teacher from a specific school putting the name of that school in their twitter bio while doing overtly political tweeting, that's a problem because it suggests that the person doesn't have a sense of boundaries and the value of social norms and thus we cannot know how they will be in a classroom of children. But being known as a teacher and expressing political dissent is not in and of itself a problem. It's a reflection of that person, not teachers or teaching generally.

              • Patricia Bremner …
                22 April 2024 at 6:38 pm

                No Dolomedes 111 That is not all Safety.!!

              • Shanreagh …
                22 April 2024 at 7:42 pm

                Representing the workers doesn't equate to what contemporary leftists call "social justice". Representing the workers means just that – pushing for better pay and working conditions for workers in the relevant industry. That is all.

                You know way back in the dim dark ages I used to think this. As I've got older I've got a bit wiser and a bit less knee jerk. I now realise and support the concept that unions have a place in the workplace, in NZ and in the world and it is the success of those relationships and that work that governs how successful they and we are. Of course like-wise employers also have a place in the workplace, in NZ and the world. In a functioning world both union/employer elements are strong and respectful of their members and of the other organisation.

                I was fortunate to work as an employer's rep negotiating with PSA/Workers Union and others. Knowing that others around the table supported each other being strong and working for their members was a sensible and mature belief.

                My own boss, gave me some 'riding instructions' which were these….the above ie strong employees and strong employers were vital in the fabric of society and needed each other to ge the best for all in society

                and

                in reality, employers hold all the cards compared with workers and it does not hurt an employer to be magnanimous

                Of course it was not all jolly hockey sticks and unicorns and we all had our moments of temporarily withdrawing, leaving, flying kites to see what the other side thought, dealing with personal grievances that were no-goers and others that most definitely were.

                So I've learned as I've got older.

                I don't support your views about the place of unions and what they should be doing.

                • Descendant Of Smith …
                  22 April 2024 at 7:53 pm

                  I've been a union delegate in two quite different organisations. Sometimes it was us, rather than some idiot managers, protecting the interests of the business. Some managers came up with some really stupid ideas. Surrounded by yes people who would never say no to them the delegates were the only protection that there was sometimes.

        • Tiger Mountain 2.2.2.2
          23 April 2024 at 8:38 am

          Teachers did themselves proud during the Hekia Parata era National Standards & Charter School campaigns.

      • SPC 2.2.3
        22 April 2024 at 1:21 pm

        Yeah na. The PSA is no ruling class, they are just a union. And it appears given

        1.the consultancy business growth in the city
        2.easier lay off contracts
        3.hires from out the public service into management

        increasingly irrelevant.

        • Patricia Bremner 2.2.3.1
          22 April 2024 at 3:35 pm

          They are again taking us back to indentured labour, where workers are not allowed to associate, congregate or discuss conditions of work at their place of work, meantime bosses want almost 24hour contact, and job surveillance.

      • Shanreagh 2.2.4
        22 April 2024 at 7:52 pm

        Political neutrality should be expected of all public servants, ie they work for the govt of the day and mostly the system works in this way.

        This does not apply though to their unions – they'd be handicapped a mile down the straight if we demanded political neutrality from the unions. It is their place to be political.

        The above applies to the core public service. The PS world is vastly changed since the enactments in the 1980s with union coverage & expectations.

        • Dolomedes III 2.2.4.1
          22 April 2024 at 8:20 pm

          Yes, important to distinguish between the public service and the PSA. But I'm not sure what you mean by "political". The PSA's job is to push for better pay and working conditions in the public service – that is all.

          • Descendant Of Smith 2.2.4.1.1
            22 April 2024 at 8:53 pm

            Your opinion is so completely wrong but your inability to listen to what others are informing you of is even worse.

            From its own rules and regulations.

            It shall, however, be free in the pursuit of its objectives to express opinions or take other action in respect of any act or omission of governments, organisations or persons, and to express its opinion on any issue or topic.

            or the mandate to further environmental issues.

            Eco Network

            (1) In accordance with rule 74, there will be an Eco Network of the PSA, which shall be subject to the rules, regulations and policies of the union.

            (2) The Eco Network exists to:

            (a) promote environmental interests within the PSA;

            (b) facilitate the sharing of information and resources;

            (c) encourage engagement and action on the environment.

            and look here are the PSA’s submissions on all sorts of things.

            https://www.psa.org.nz/our-voice/#/submissions

            We seem to have a lot of trolls here lately sharing their reckons with us. They come and go I guess.

            • Grey Area 2.2.4.1.1.1
              24 April 2024 at 8:05 am

              'We seem to have a lot of trolls here lately sharing their reckons with us. They come and go I guess".

              I don't understand why people waste time and energy engaging with people who are not here to operate in good faith.

              It clogs threads up and diminishes the value of this site, to me at least.

              When I see the names of several commenters here now I just skip over them.

              It's clear very early on when these people appear that they are not here to engage in genuine debate. I wish people would ignore them when that's obvious.

  3. tWig 3
    22 April 2024 at 2:30 pm

    In-depth CNN article about China's internal security services.

    Thete's an iteresting new framing of national intelligence agency on social media to encourage citizen input on suspicious activity.

  4. newsense 4
    22 April 2024 at 2:36 pm

    So hundred year mortgages and apartments without windows on floodplains? That’d meet KPIs and with immigrants that as Bill English once said are used to cramped poorly lit homes in their country.

    • alwyn 4.1
      22 April 2024 at 5:11 pm

      When did Bill say that?

      No doubt you can provide a link to what he said, and the words he used.

      • newsense 4.1.1
        22 April 2024 at 11:02 pm

        Complaints here about housing having minimum standards for ceilings etc as being too expensive. Will see if I can find further comments, but it was immigrants don’t need minimum standards around light, windows and other things because they’re used to not having them. Not pushed to the top of his most treasured opinions, but relevant when we look at the current lot.

        https://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/PA1509/S00496/speech-on-housing-affordability.htm

        • newsense 4.1.1.1
          22 April 2024 at 11:18 pm

          Recent studies have shown rules setting minimum floor space requirements and minimum balcony requirements add $50,000 to $100,000 to the cost of an apartment.

          That's in addition to costs associated with other rules, such as rules setting minimum ceiling heights.

          In the context of a high immigration and foreign student environment, many of whom lived in apartments.