Open mike 22/10/2023

Written By: notices and features - Date published: 6:00 am, October 22nd, 2023 - 46 comments
Categories: open mike - Tags:

Open mike is your post.

For announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose.

The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the Policy).

Step up to the mike …

46 comments on “Open mike 22/10/2023 ”

Comments are now closed

Ffloyd 1

22 October 2023 at 9:17 am

Luxon is everywhere. He’s like an overdose of candy floss. Nicks Korero is on point today.
Robin The Goodfellow 2

22 October 2023 at 9:21 am

Now you know how conservative voters felt the last 6 years

Aroha
- Rolling-on-Gravel 2.1
  
  22 October 2023 at 10:02 am
  
  Poor little you, James. :/
  
  I wonder how it feels to be so put-out by such a government that doesn't intentionally harm you in terms of policy in the grand scheme of things?
  
  I'm so sorry that you feel so victimised by the previous government for 6 years and that you missed the National government before that big mean nanny government so much, that you are so happy to see a government massaging that benefit-bashing tendency of yours to return finally, in exchange for that golden state of comfort and security knowing that we shall not disturb your life for much more longer.
  
  I'm so, so sorry that you felt so scared that we might get a few more dollars, a bit more dignity, a bit more hope that you came running towards the warm hug of Luxon and come bade your uncanny relative Seymour to get rid of the big scary benes. (Thanks goodness that they're there! Aren't they great? Isn't the thumb and the hologram so swell?) Oh no in the last six years, somebody got a bigger box of meat somewhere! Oh no, a child just got a new pair of shoes! Oh no, if we had three years more, we would have had free medicines for everybody and we might have had a shot at getting better dental care! The sheer horror! I'm so sad that you feel so victimised by the last 6 years of government (even with its flaws, it would not have made the filthy benes feel fear!)
  
  So much better for you and your just-view of the world to see us to be so fearfully busy with unnecessary and hazardous jobs that the cemetery near you will shine so much the greener for it!
  
  Oh the golden years of the rich verdant grasses watered by our tears after we have yet another proposed benefit income cut!
  
  I'm so, so happy that you do not have to live in fear anymore! Hosanna! The horribleness of the last 6 years are gone! May the filthy benes feel what you felt in the last 6 years! Ah, good ol' payback!
  
  Huzzah! :/
  - Robin The Goodfellow 2.1.1
    
    22 October 2023 at 10:30 am
    
    James?
    - Jack 2.1.1.1
      
      22 October 2023 at 10:38 am
      
      Shaw????
      - Robin The Goodfellow 2.1.1.1.1
        
        22 October 2023 at 10:39 am
        
        Dr Scott!
        
        Jack 2.1.1.1.1.1
        
        22 October 2023 at 10:41 am
        
        Still blaming Cook perhaps???
        
        Robin The Goodfellow …
        
        22 October 2023 at 10:53 am
        
        At some point you have to let the past go
        
        Rolling-on-Gravel …
        
        22 October 2023 at 10:55 am
        
        Mod note for you, James.
- KJT 2.2
  
  22 October 2023 at 10:12 am
  
  "Conservative voters" Voted for Labour/Greens 3 years ago.
  
  Only the fascists, and the proportion of farmers and Speculators who have no concern for NZ, and those who would vote for a blue gumboot, stuck with NACT.
  - Rolling-on-Gravel 2.2.1
    
    22 October 2023 at 10:54 am
    
    Yeah – my vote for Greens ironically was a conservative one, so to speak.
    
    I voted to conserve the gains of the Labour/Greens government and with Greens to augment (and perhaps to exceed the timidity of Labour) so we could get a better Aotearoa/New Zealand as a result.
    
    Sadly, that was not to be and I hope nothing gets too damaged in the next three years. If we can even survive it somehow.
    
    And that is why I was so angry in writing my previous post.
    
    People like James needs to ship up and shape up, not us. They need to tighten their belt, not us. They need to do more, not us.
    
    We have been doing enough to prop up the economy. Did you know that as beneficiaries, we are buying what you have had to sell us with most of our meagre incomes, that we constantly have to spend to fund your GST tax? That we have to do a lot to keep our communities afloat even if we have often faced crime, drugs, violence in our communities? No?
    
    It's not just you who are facing these issues, we are facing these issues ourselves in the scariest way: being close up and on the edge. Yet we intentionally don't throw toys out of our cribs and ruin the country (even if we can lose hope and often do not vote) like people do with National and ACT and sometimes NZ First.
    
    Even if we fail, it's not like we aren't trying already most of the time. And the remaining? Well, I can imagine it's the nihilism taking over the remainder of us and in a way it's weirdly understandable.
    
    Things are just so hard, so cruel, so toxic already. With ACT and National, that's just piling fuel on the fire of these vices. And it's so weird that people would see something happen that may help to improve the lot of EVERYBODY and they go: "LOL no, gotta vote the thumb and hologram just cus these ram raids are fucking scary and gotta keep adding up the houses to rent out!" knowing that there's eventually a psychological and natural limit somewhere that is reached and it would not be pretty. Like a beehive being poked one too many times.
    
    So yeah, I hope Aotearoa/NZ isn't damaged too badly in the next three years.
    
    I sincerely hope that.
- Mac1 2.3
  
  22 October 2023 at 10:34 am
  
  Some who have been involved in politics for some time know what it's like to be voted out of power. I made this point to our LEC a week ago. Since my first vote back in the 1969 election, Labour has four times experienced this- 1975, 1990, 2008, 2023. The conservatives have also had that happen four times in that period- 1972, 1984, 1999, 2017.
  
  Since 1969, National has won for 11 elections or 30 years, Labour for 8 elections, 24 years. Since 1935, National in power for 47 years, Labour for 40 years, 12 changes of government.
  
  Yes, both sides know what it's like………
  
  It's a bit like the World Rugby Cup. Out of 9 completed tournaments, New Zealand has won three, as has South Africa, Australia twice and England once. Who will win next weekend and be the winner of four tournaments? Watching now how players and coaches felt when they lost in previous times, for them it was head down defeat and pain.
  
  Back to NZ elections, how many times in all those elections did we feel, both sides now, that our country would be damaged seriously or irrevocably when we lost?
  - Rolling-on-Gravel 2.3.1
    
    22 October 2023 at 10:58 am
    
    "Back to NZ elections, how many times in all those elections did we feel, both sides now, that our country would be damaged seriously or irrevocably when we lost?"
    
    I have legitimate reason to fear what will happen next. Enough said.
    - Robin The Goodfellow 2.3.1.1
      
      22 October 2023 at 11:01 am
      
      Nah, it'll be fine
      - Drowsy M. Kram 2.3.1.1.1
        
        22 October 2023 at 11:17 am
        
        Phones ringing off hooks, investors to capitalise off new government [18 Oct 2023]
        
        Things are certainly looking up, for some – take property investors (please )
        
        https://www.1news.co.nz/2023/10/16/the-labour-policies-that-face-being-scrapped-under-national/
        
        “Nah, it’ll be fine“
Ffloyd 3

22 October 2023 at 10:24 am

Thank you ROG. I could never be so eloquent as you, but you got right to the heart of what will probably happen in the next three years. We as ‘bottom feeders’ ( thank you chrome dome) are already tightening our belts against the onslaught to come. I wonder if our super will be cut. if our Winter heating will be cut.our dental treatments will be cut.If medium wages to have no increase for next three years. If 15,000 workers to be sacked from Public Service. ..Before Christmas! NationalAct will be creating poverty and all sort of bad health issues in all ways, but will take away the means for people to be able to access any sort of healing or support.

I see Luxon is skipping around HIS country dispensing joy and goodwill when he should be out starting the building of his first hospital, that he at one stage indicated ‘he would make it work’ as soon as election was won. Like straight away baby, no mucking around here , flashes gnashers. We could be in for a bumpy ride ,but I wouldn’t go on holiday if I was him. Judith Collins will be SILENTLY waiting.
- Robin The Goodfellow 3.1
  
  22 October 2023 at 10:32 am
  
  Don't think Collins will be up to much theses days
  
  Willis on the other hand…
- Belladonna 3.2
  
  22 October 2023 at 2:30 pm
  
  You seem to have missed the point – despite it being restated on TS multiple times, that there is, at this stage, no government (apart from Hipkins in a caretaker role).
  
  Until the final election votes are counted, and until negotiations between the parties are complete (however long that takes) – there will be no government.
  
  No politician, on either side, can actually do *anything* about enacting their first 100 days (or whatever other promises they might have made)
  
  There is no way that Luxon can appoint a Health Minister to progress hospital building – or anything else in the Health sphere.
  
  This divided government is what we voted for ('we' as the people who participated in the election). Of course, people could have voted overwhelmingly for National, giving them (possibly in partnership with ACT) an unbeatable majority. Then Luxon would have been in a position to be beginning his programme right now.
  
  Somehow, I don't feel that this would have made you happier….
  - Anne 3.2.1
    
    22 October 2023 at 6:50 pm
    
    I am sure Ffloyd knows as well as the rest of us that the outgoing Lab. govt. is acting as the care-taker govt. for the time being, There is no need to preempt everything that is said with a boring prologue about the precise circumstance.
    
    "I see Luxon is skipping around HIS country dispensing joy and goodwill…"
    
    He certainly does seem to be of the view he is already the PM. I should have thought that was the obvious implication of Ffloyd's remark. Maybe you just want to criticise her/him because they have been open about their support for Labour and the Left.
    - Belladonna 3.2.1.1
      
      22 October 2023 at 7:06 pm
      
      Maybe you just want to criticise her/him because they have been open about their support for Labour and the Left.
      
      Maybe you want to defend him for the same reason.
      
      Ffloyd's suggestion about what Luxon should be doing – is entirely impossible under the political circumstances. Talk about a straw man.
      - Anne 3.2.1.1.1
        
        22 October 2023 at 9:36 pm
        
        Are you sure he's a him? I'm not.
        
        Belladonna 3.2.1.1.1.1
        
        24 October 2023 at 2:26 pm
        
        And a sterling example of everything which is wrong with the Left.
        Converting a political discussion to one about pronouns……
        
        And, not even your pronouns….
        
        Just for the record, if a Standardista makes a request to be referred to by a specific pronoun – of course I will comply – simply as a matter of basic courtesy.
        
        In the same way that I don’t use pejorative terms for MPs – on any side of the house. Or make comments about MPs appearance or voice (especially women MPs).
Ffloyd 4

22 October 2023 at 10:39 am

Collins not up to it!! Wouldn’t bet the farm on it. Willis….. what a chuckle.
Ad 5

22 October 2023 at 10:40 am

Bit early for all this anxiety until we have Specials, a coalition deal, a cabinet, and a 100 day plan.

Do some gardening for a bit. Nothing to do.
- Mac1 5.1
  
  22 October 2023 at 12:20 pm
  
  I think both sides have some gardening to do, a little weed plucking and the establishment of a nursery where viable seedlings can be raised and nurtured for the next seasons' plantings, compost to be made and the ground prepared. The analogy is always a good one between politics and gardening.
  
  Plant and weed identification, well-chosen plants for the specific soils, knowledge and toil from scientist and labourer alike, propagation, watering, tending, supervision of pruning and training the growth.
  
  I think the best advice will be for as many as possible to be involved, to lessen the impact of rogue sports and allow common wisdom to win over the mono-culture experts and the parasites. Food for all. Beauty of sight and scent and sound for all.
  
  What am I talking about? Membership, hard workers, skilled people, good candidates, broad-based support, sufficient money, hoarding sites, work-place discussion, union involvement, spreading the message. Us. Involved. For all.
  - Rolling-on-Gravel 5.1.1
    
    22 October 2023 at 12:57 pm
    
    OK. I am going to say something.
    
    It is not just the working people that is worthy of participation in society.
    
    It is disabled people too.
    
    This is what I am staunch on. Because we have often been left out of society for far too long. No more.
    
    "Both sides"‽ Like you think this is something trivial we shouldn't be fussing about.
    
    OK.
    - Rolling-on-Gravel 5.1.1.1
      
      22 October 2023 at 12:58 pm
      
      I'm taking a break from you all. Take care.
    - Roy Cartland 5.1.1.2
      
      22 October 2023 at 5:23 pm
      
      Nice use of the interrabang – I didn't know we still had those! 👍👍
      
      Don't despair Rolls, the country needs the disabled and differently abled as much as we need anyone, no matter what those NACT arseholes say.
    - Mac1 5.1.1.3
      
      22 October 2023 at 7:06 pm
      
      R-o-G, I cannot see how I have trivialised anything. I am Labour but I can still see that we need to review and improve. The 'other side', far more so.
      
      I made no reference to disabled people.
      
      I share some of your apprehension about where NACT will take us, but I was encouraging comment on this.
      
      I am sorry that my comment seems to have triggered your 'taking a break' from us.
Obtrectator 6

22 October 2023 at 10:57 am

Amid all the "Shutduffer Cup" hoo-hah, I'd like to note the passing of England's equivalent to Dan Carter and Pinetree:

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2023/oct/21/sir-bobby-charlton-manchester-united-legend-world-cup-winner-england-dies

(Yes, I know – different sport. But the same sort of status.)
- Jilly Bee 6.1
  
  23 October 2023 at 8:06 pm
  
  I endeavoured to reply to your post last evening on my tablet, but it just wouldn't work, so here goes on my trusty PC. I do recall going to a game at the old Newmarket Park back in the mid 1960s where I believe Manchester United played a New Zealand team. I'm almost sure that Sir Bobby Charlton was in the Man U team then. It was a great afternoon's entertainment, a few of us stalwarts drove up from Putaruru for the occasion.
Mike the Lefty 7

22 October 2023 at 11:53 am

Just when it looks like I can finally afford to buy an EV for the first time, not a brand new one but a fairly recent one you understand, now I will have to pay more for the privilege of using a vehicle that doesn't belch out CO2 every second.

Thanks National.

The Ford Ranger diesel heads will be loving it, finally getting their revenge on those commie greenies that have had it so good for so long.
- AB 7.1
  
  22 October 2023 at 12:45 pm
  
  No worries Mike, the Nats will 'deliver' lots of new charging stations. You will get so much satisfaction from reflecting on the fact that you won't get to use them. Cheap, easy, low emissions road travel is not something that is going to be handed to everyone. Plebs have to be disciplined by increasing their existential and financial anxiety – not by handing out freebees.
  - Adrian 7.1.1
    
    22 October 2023 at 2:49 pm
    
    If Britain is anything to go by dont expect public charging stations to be much cheaper than petrol. Topping up at home is by far the best option We had a Polestar, read Chinese Volvo, for 4 days around the south of England and in conversation with a fellow fillerupper who was very knowledgeable said that home filling was about 10% of the price of fuel per km but public filling was almost as expensive as fuel. He had had a succesion of MGs or Mazdas a fuel one and 2 EVs, the second one an upgrade so he had good idea of pricing. I think all public charging in NZ should be a nationalised operation, the chances of price gouging is far too high.
    - Belladonna 7.1.1.1
      
      22 October 2023 at 7:13 pm
      
      Problem with home charging is all the people living in cities- without garages. Think terrace housing – not to mention apartments.
      
      It's a major issue in London, at least – and I'm sure in many other cities as well.
      
      Certainly, parking (of both EV and ICE cars) has been a significant issue in many of the 'new' apartment blocks which have been designed with minimal garaging/parking space – in Auckland. Regardless of the theory. The vast majority of apartment dwellers in Auckland own cars – and need to park them somewhere.
      
      I'm picking that EVs will also soon attract road user charges (like diesel powered vehicles) – which will make them pretty comparable to ICE for running costs.
joe90 8

22 October 2023 at 12:15 pm

Because the hoi polloi don't need no damn mitigation measures.

/

We are still in a pandemic.

The pandemic is not over. Basically everything you have been led to believe about the virus is a lie. Covid is more dangerous, more transmissible, and more out of control than everyone in power is telling you. We are not back to normal. We are in freefall.

[…]

Even if the pandemic were over for the rich (and it is not), none of the safety they’ve bought for themselves exists for you and I. We’ve been told over and over that we’re in a different place than we were in 2020. Which is true—things are much worse now. Cases are higher, the virus is more contagious, reinfections are more dangerous, and people have largely let down their guard.

[deleted overlong quote with enough links to get caught in the spam filter]

https://lizwhatsherface.substack.com/p/the-pandemic-isnt-over
- weka 8.1
  
  22 October 2023 at 6:26 pm
  
  mod note.
- Belladonna 8.2
  
  22 October 2023 at 7:22 pm
  
  This is not an argument which is going to win Labour any friends.
  
  If you are saying that Covid is worse now, than it was in 2020 – then you make everyone wonder what the point of Lockdown was?
  
  Almost everyone has now had at least one dose of Covid. And they didn't die. They didn't even get terribly sick.
  
  The Covid that we have now is nothing like as lethal as the variant present in early 2020. If it were, we would have seen death and hospitalization rates in NZ in 2022 – when the spread of Omicron made any lockdown ineffective – comparable to those in Italy in 2020. Spoiler alert. We didn't.
  
  In addition, the vast majority of Kiwis are protected by a combination of vaccination and naturally acquired antibodies.
  
  Are people still dying from Covid. Yes they are. They are also dying from influenza, and cancer, and heart disease and diabetes. And poor people die at higher rates from all of those.
  
  Are they 'pandemics' in your book as well?
  - Bearded Git 8.2.1
    
    22 October 2023 at 7:40 pm
    
    It's not about "winning friends" Bella FFS, it's about telling the truth.
    
    Labours COVID response was one of the best in the world. The greedy self-entitled Right has attacked it in Auckland so that they can have their placeman, Luxon, in power. Don't buy into this.
    
    Labour/Greens(who supported Labours COVID response) did really well in the election in Dunedin and Wellington….I haven't checked chch. It was the Auckland/Hamilton axis that cost The Left the election. They were lied to by Luxon and pals on a daily basis during the campaign.
    - Belladonna 8.2.1.1
      
      22 October 2023 at 8:02 pm
      
      Do you honestly believe Joe90's claim that
      
      that we’re in a different place than we were in 2020. Which is true—things are much worse now. Cases are higher, the virus is more contagious, reinfections are more dangerous, and people have largely let down their guard.
      
      If you do – then the logical correlation is that we should close the borders and go back into permanent lockdown. I don't think even the magic fairydust of Ardern could sell that one!
      
      FFS – it seems as though the Left *still* isn't admitting that Lockdown – especially the 2nd Auckland one – was a public relations disaster.
      
      Yes, the rest of NZ (including Wellington, and most of the government) – went on their merry way living their lives – while Auckland endured months of apparently pointless lockdown (pointless, because Covid went right on spreading among the people who said FU to the whole concept)
      
      If you want to draw the parallel in Labour votes – be my guest.
      
      For the record, I think it was one element – but not the only one. The cost of living, and out-of-control crime wave – both impacting Auckland more than other cities/regions, were also highly significant.
      - joe90 8.2.1.1.1
        
        22 October 2023 at 8:40 pm
        
        Joe90's claim
        
        That's the authors claim, not mine.
        
        My assertion is that despite the measures used to protect the rich
        
        joe90 8.2.1.1.1.1
        
        22 October 2023 at 9:00 pm
        
        ~~My assertion is that despite the measures used to protect the rich~~
        
        Edit timed out.
        
        (couldn't be arsed)
      - joe90 8.2.1.1.2
        
        22 October 2023 at 8:57 pm
        
        Lockdown – especially the 2nd Auckland one – was a public relations disaster.
        
        Why yes, we too could have had an epidemiologist telling an inquiry that;
        
        we let it go. […] There was no reason for that number of people to have died – at all.
        
        https://twitter.com/Kit_Yates_Maths/status/1715269096193798515
joe90 9

22 October 2023 at 7:11 pm

Wonder how much worse things will get under Milei's anarcho-capitalism.

Hernán Stuchi, a 29-year-old food delivery driver in greater Buenos Aires, grew up as a left-wing activist. During this weekend’s presidential election in Argentina, he will make a starkly different choice, and back Javier , a far-right libertarian trumpeting socially conservative culture war issues and explosive proposals to reshape Argentine society.

[…]

Polls indicate almost 50 percent of voters 29 and younger back Milei, the wild-haired outsider and self-described “anarcho-capitalist” who inveighs against traditional politicians, branding them as members of a “caste” that must be done away with. (His campaign slogan, “que se vayan todos,” or “get rid of them all,” carries echoes of the Trumpian “drain the swamp.”) A win by Milei’s ascendant campaign in Argentina would serve as yet another indicator of the far right’s rise across the Americas and around the world. But young voters’ support sets Milei apart from the far-right stars he is often compared with, including Trump and Brazil’s Jair Bolsonaro, both of whom were shut out by young voters in their recent reelection bids.

With over 100 percent inflation crushing Argentine pocketbooks, Milei’s proposed solution is a radical plan to abolish the central bank and dollarize the economy by replacing the Argentine peso with the US dollar — a move untested by countries of Argentina’s scale. He has voiced support for other extreme positions, including liberalizing gun ownership and individuals’ freedom to sell their organs. He denies human-caused climate change and opposes abortion. At rallies, he can often be seen wielding a chainsaw, symbolizing his plan to slash public spending and unravel Argentina’s generous safety nets. In Milei’s view, the state should largely limit itself to homeland security: To that end, he has pledged to axe the ministries of education; environment; and women, gender, and diversity, among others.

https://www.vox.com/world-politics/2023/10/21/23925549/argentina-election-javier-milei-right-youth
- pat 9.1
  
  22 October 2023 at 8:21 pm
  
  With inflation at 138% (and years in excess of 20%) I guess the population will seize upon any hope of respite….consider our own reaction with our recent 6-7%
- Rolling-on-Gravel 9.2
  
  23 October 2023 at 2:28 am
  
  I know that I'm on a break however I couldn't help but to notice the parallels between Seymour and this demagogue.
  
  At rallies, he can often be seen wielding a chainsaw, symbolizing his plan to slash public spending and unravel Argentina’s generous safety nets. In Milei’s view, the state should largely limit itself to homeland security: To that end, he has pledged to axe the ministries of education; environment; and women, gender, and diversity, among others.
  
  This sounds EXACTLY LIKE OUR DAVID SEYMOUR!