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Open mike 22/04/2014

Written By: - Date published: 7:00 am, April 22nd, 2014 - 168 comments
Categories: open mike - Tags:

openmike Open mike is your post.

For announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose.

The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the Policy).

Step up to the mike …

168 comments on “Open mike 22/04/2014 ”

  1. how about that shane jones..?..eh..?

    http://whoar.co.nz/2014/paratas-husband-funded-the-labour-leadership-challenge-from-shane-jones-ed-whoar-eh/

    (excerpt:..)

    (and john keys’ reactions to this news..?)

    “..You’re joking!..”

    (ed:..but wait..!..there’s more..!..)

    • Draco T Bastard 1.1

      I’m sure that John Key would have been quite happy having Shane jones as Labour leader as it would have turned Labour into a party almost as right-wing as National.

    • Clemgeopin 1.2

      Corporate and political corruption is raising its ugly head more than ever before. Sad for New Zealand, the supposedly least corrupt country in the world. Perhaps the corruption in high places is better hidden here than in other countries!
      I enjoy Shane Jones as a funny man, but in my opinion, he should resign from the Labour party or be sacked, irrespective of any adverse consequences for the party. It is better to take a stand and stop these kinds of evil stuff permeating the party or the country.
      Let us not allow the left wing parties and principles be tainted. Leave the right wingers to wallow in such sewers.

      • greywarbler 1.2.1

        Clem
        It’s been there for years (corrupt practices and the moral hazards that encourage them). We have just been too naive and trusting to note it. Everything that has come to light has been regarded as an exception (that proves the rule). Then it was noticed that the rule was being flouted more than followed. The age of innocence has had to end. Older and wiser now?

  2. metiria turei just made an efficient/credible appearance on tvone breakfast..

    ..the vid will be worth hunting down..(tvnz ondemand..)

  3. ScottGN 3

    If, as they say, explaining is losing, then both Collins and Key were losing big time on Morning Report today. Her denials and justifications are becoming more and more ludicrous by the day and Key was forced back to his default talking points, namely dancing on the head of a pin and trying to blame it all on Labour.

    • karol 3.1

      Robertson:

      [audio src="http://podcast.radionz.co.nz/mnr/mnr-20140422-0637-labour_says_judith_collins_has_misled_parliament-048.mp3" /]

      Collins:

      [audio src="http://podcast.radionz.co.nz/mnr/mnr-20140422-0714-collins_says_oravida_affair_has_turned_into_a_witch_hunt-048.mp3" /]

      Key:

      “mumble, mumble, slur, incomprehensible…….

      ….”let’s take a step back….”

      “…. at the end of the day…”

      convoluted avoiding of questions

      attack Labour

      divert to other issues

      [audio src="http://podcast.radionz.co.nz/mnr/mnr-20140422-0718-pm_says_labour_is_playing_politics_over_collins-048.mp3" /]

      • David H 3.1.1

        Listening to the TricKey one this morning, I could have sworn he’s been on the sauce, or is still shickkered from the night before. And this is not the first time he’s sounded like this, Hmmm Shades of Muldoon.

        • Murray Olsen 3.1.1.1

          Dunno about being on the sauce, but he is making a mess of it. He could be highly stressed. To me, he sounds like he’s on the verge of a bad panic attack, the sort where your tongue swells up in your mouth and you think you’re going to suffocate. Once he’s been through the challenging bits and can get back to where he’s comfortable – which is attacking Labour – he becomes relaxed again. I’m doubting his mental and emotional competence at the moment. I always doubted his ethical, technical, and political competence, but Kiwis love a fast talker in an expensive suit.

      • Clemgeopin 3.1.2

        One point is unclear to me. Collins had said that she just popped in for a cup of tea on her way to the airport. Now she says after the dinner, she just went to bed. So, my question is, what happened to the airport destination plan?

      • wyndham 3.1.3

        Key himself is deeply involved in this.

        • Clemgeopin 3.1.3.1

          The opposition should go to the bottom of this, explore it all relentlessly and not let these dodgy corrupt ways go unexposed and unpunished.

          • greywarbler 3.1.3.1.1

            The Opposition, Labour particularly, should keep Collins enquiry bubbling but say they have important changes planned for NZs betterment and are determined to do better than this shoddy government and just get a dig in while they are talking about their new direction and policies. It’s a mistake to concentrate on digging out all the dirt. To use modernspeak ‘This is not core business for Labour’.

            So don’t get deflected Labour or you confirm my occasional irrational, frustrated description of politicians – being morons.

      • blue leopard 3.1.4

        @ Karol 3.1,

        LOL

        I haven’t listened to the links, however your summary of Key’s comments sound so familiar to any comment he ever makes – I believe you have summed up the comments I haven’t heard of his, now and in the future, very well indeed!

        Well done!

  4. karol 4

    weka’s (so far) unanswered questions.

    A few of the many that are avoided, partly by changing the topic, not answering and/or or asking Standardistas further questions.

    • Paul 4.1

      Pete George, please come on the site prepared to answer these questions, not waffle on.
      Otherwise go chat with your friend Slater.

      • Pete George 4.1.1

        I don’t have much free time today, but if you want to carry on from yesterday here’s something to consider.

        If a Universal Basic Income was introduced (I’m interested in the concept) and was set at a level that ensured most people could live reasonably comfortably:
        – How many people would choose it over paid employment?
        – How much would the number of people not in paid employment increase?
        – What would this cost the Government/taxpayers?
        – How would this be funded?

        • phillip ure 4.1.1.1

          “..I don’t have much free time today..”

          yay..!!

          ..answer the questions..

        • One Anonymous Bloke 4.1.1.2

          🙄

          UBI issues have been covered in detail elsewhere on The Standard.

          Petty George brings nothing to the table.

        • felix 4.1.1.3

          <i<“partly by changing the topic, not answering and/or or asking Standardistas further questions.”

          Sorry to hear you don’t have much time today. How about tomorrow or Thursday?

          • karol 4.1.1.3.1

            felix, indeed. So we will just keep asking him the questions he hasn’t answered… and I have more.

        • karol 4.1.1.4

          Ah, Petey… Thanks for providing a clear illustration of one of your strategies – don’t answer the question, but ask us to go researching for more questions. Do you ever do any real research yourself? Why are you so lacking in information and knowledge of these topics that you give your opinions on?

        • freedom 4.1.1.5

          Since you are so very busy today, answering weka’s questions is the priority.

          but if you do have some time this week …….
          freedom:

          How’s that weekly budget for poor people coming along Pete ?

          I realise it is a complex thing to engineer without looking like a $2 shop tool but you are Pete George, the man with the plan! Where is the budget Pete?

          You are Editor in Chief at the fact checking site called Politicheck.
          Are facts not an essential item for your researchers to have on hand?

          How do you plan to check the veracity of Government statements about poverty, incomes and expenditure if you do not have a clear understanding of the weekly budgets required of people who inhabit the lowest levels of our economy?

          PG: “What would this cost the Government/taxpayers?”
          To answer this question you will need some base data to set the UBI expenditure at an adequate level. Base data like budgets.

          • karol 4.1.1.5.1

            And there’s this one from felix. – important question about underlying values.

            • Pete George 4.1.1.5.1.1

              felix didn’t fully quote (himself) in his response. This is what he said:

              What’s relevant is creating a society where where young people have faith that their lives are meaningful and worth living, and where adults find enough stimulation and satisfaction in their activities that they don’t feel like wiping themselves out at the end of every week.

              The legality or otherwise of different substances then becomes a non-issue.

              I responded “I think that’s idealistic and unrealistic”. That was in reference to the whole statement.

              I think “creating a society where where young people have faith that their lives are meaningful and worth living” is a great ideal and worth working towards.

              I think “where adults find enough stimulation and satisfaction in their activities that they don’t feel like wiping themselves out at the end of every week” is a fine aim but idealistic and I doubt we can ever get close to to that. For example being a parent wipes you out daily, it’s the nature of the job. It’s not uncommon for parents to want a drink or a smoke at the end of another busy day.

              “The legality or otherwise of different substances then becomes a non-issue.” I took that as meaning that people wouldn’t use drugs any more. That’s naive and unrealistic. Many poor people don’t have the time or money to do drugs much if at all, and most have more sense than to waste their money and minds.

              Drug use and abuse happens across the income spectrum. A wealthy person can be stressed about their money like a poor person stressed about their lack of money.

              And no matter how ideal we can make our society I think there will always be a significant number of people who keep using drugs, so the legalities will remain issues. It’s idealistic to think that it could become a non-issue.

              • felix

                Can you show me where I ever said anything about having a drink or a smoke at the end of the day being a big deal Pete?

                How about addressing what I actually asked you. I’ll paraphrase for your benefit as apparently you haven’t followed a fucking word so far:

                If you don’t think we can create a society where people’s lives are fulfilling enough that they don’t try to utterly destroy themselves every weekend, then what is the point of any of your political efforts?

                I mean that’s a really, really low bar for a decent society. I’m not talking utopian ideals Pete. I’m talking about large numbers of human beings not trying to self destruct on a regular basis, and regularly succeeding.

                Because essentially you’re right Pete. If nothing ever changes much from what we do now, then we’ll pretty much always have the same or worse issues to deal with as we have now. If we’re lucky.

                • We can’ ‘create a society’, there’s too much history for that, but we should always be looking for ways to improving our society.

                  Most people don’t “try to utterly destroy themselves every weekend”. I think that most people who try drugs do so for some sort of enjoyment although there’s quite a bit of attempted stress relief too.

                  The people who develop drug problems, the drug abusers and the addicts, don’t just wait for the weekends.

                  I’m talking about large numbers of human beings not trying to self destruct on a regular basis, and regularly succeeding.

                  How many people regularly try to self destruct? Large numbers? And how many succeed? Too many do, but large numbers?

                  And if “we can create a society where people’s lives are fulfilling enough” how much less of a drug problem will we have?

                  • freedom

                    Dear Pete

                    “Alcohol is a drug”

                    Please repeat this phrase thrice daily,
                    then perhaps you won’t have such difficulties understanding an issue that others are openly discussing and you are openly obfuscating.

                    kind regards

                  • Tracey

                    still pretending, pretending, pretending

                  • weka

                    “Most people don’t “try to utterly destroy themselves every weekend”. I think that most people who try drugs do so for some sort of enjoyment although there’s quite a bit of attempted stress relief too.”

                    Hands up who thinks PG is qualified to have an opinion on why and how people take drugs?

                    • I doubt anyone here is qualified to have an informed opinion on what qualifications I have.

                      But why not check with who should clearly be qualified, like the National Institute on Drug Abuse.

                      Research has shown that people generally take drugs to either feel good (i.e., sensation seekers or anyone wanting to experiment with feeling high or different) or to feel better (i.e., self-medicators or individuals who take drugs in an attempt to cope with difficult problems or situations, including stress, trauma, and symptoms of mental disorders).

                      That’s along the lines of what I suggested but in more detail (limited time so I kept it very brief).

                      There’s other factors too, like peer pressure, bravado, curiosity, accidental addiction (prescriptions), spiking and so on. And it’s often a combination of factors.

                      So felix’s “society where people’s lives are fulfilling enough” has a lot to try and address and rectify.

                    • felix

                      weka I know you can’t see me but I am putting both my hands firmly on the floor.

                      Pete not only knows fuck all but he’s also just shat all over every A&E doctor, nurse, ambulance officer, police office and firefighter in the country.

                    • Tracey

                      god save us all from the days when pete george has time to post

                    • lprent []

                      I’m sure that some people say the same about me.

                    • karol

                      PG @ 3.40pm.

                      That’s a pretty generalised list with limited consideration of context and life circumstances. Though it does include this:

                      an attempt to cope with difficult problems or situations, which would include people struggling on low incomes, and/or with unbearable jobs.

                      There’s been quite a bit of sociological research on drug use and abuse. This looks at patterns in various contexts, over time and in different kinds of communities/circumstances.

                      This 2006 article gives an overview of some of the research

                      Some of the research finings and theories:

                      Some of the early research by Bingham Dai (1930s US),

                      recognized that his drug addicts lived in disorganized neighborhoods, in which crime, delinquency, mental disorder, and suicide prevailed—drug addiction was in fact yet another variety of [deviant and criminal behaviour]

                      Other considerations that impact on drug use and abuse are availability and supply.

                      Others have argued that high levels drug abuse in a community is the result of inequalities. There is more drig abuse in lower income groups than in higher income ones – part of the use of drugs to escape from dreadful conditions.

                      The biggest survey of drug was the US national survey 2004. It found the reasons differed for different demographic groups and between use of legal and illegal drugs:

                      Use of illicit drugs

                      Experimental; irregular use more commonly episodic;

                      Use of legal drugs
                      – way more common than use of illegal drugs – and more likely to keep doing it; people who use legal drugs a lot, are more likely to use illegal ones;

                      Psychoactive use
                      – is more common among young people; plus people more likely to use psychoactive drugs are male, unmarried but co-habiting and not planning to go to college, the unemployed,.

                      Drug us can also be a rebellion against conventions.

                    • felix

                      Pete is still pretending that when we talk about drugs we’re not including alcohol.

                • Rogue Trooper

                  yep.

                • greywarbler

                  Get fucky or get lucky – I know I prefer the latter.
                  And don’t forget to hear the Awkward Russian police sing daft Punk Get Lucky.
                  Just put the keywords and go for the middle video. Good marching music.

                  • Rogue Trooper

                    for some reason gw, a link to Prosperity Theology ( the, long undiscovered Pastor’s Cave Prosperity Gospel) I put up has remained in moderation, twice. Suffice to say, I recently attended a church where in the willing congregation were persuasively asked for money four times, across two services, eftpos at the back of the hall, i o u ‘s accepted.

                    • Clemgeopin

                      Why did you attend TWO services on the same day?
                      What Church was it?
                      What were the reasons/cause given for the FOUR money collections?
                      Were the congregation obliged/compelled to pay or was it voluntary?

                    • Rogue Trooper

                      being a polite guest
                      Apostolic / Acts / Equippers
                      Tithe, Love Offerings, Speakers fees
                      Voluntary with copious encouragement to do so.

        • Lanthanide 4.1.1.6

          I think after a short adjustment period, employment would go up, as a result of people actually having money to spend into the economy.

          UBI is a redistribution from those at the very top to the rest at the bottom. Naturally the people at the bottom will spend the money in ways that the people at the top never would have. This spending will create more economic activity, which means (generally) more jobs.

          • greywarbler 4.1.1.6.1

            Lanthanide +100
            Slides through the mishmash like a knife through soft butter. Says it all really. Should be printed out in little strips of paper and dropped over NZ like confetti similar to the flour bombing in the 1981 protest.

        • Tracey 4.1.1.7

          loks like you havetime for everything except these

          Open mike 21/04/2014

    • (excerpt from those unanswered-questions..addressed to pete george..)

      “..That disqualifies you from having any opinion on beneficiaries until you answer the question: how many beneficiaries are not required to seek/gain employment?

      Then you will have to answer how many people are now required to see work, despite previously being exempt.

      Then come back and explain how those people are supposed to live. And why those people aren’t entitled to a livable income.

      Then explain why you think that beneficiaries are all unemployed.

      And then explain how unemployed beneficiaries are supposed to raise their income via employment when there aren’t enough jobs.

      Then, when youve done all that, retract your statement that NACT don’t keep people poor…”

      (can i suggest that when pg pops up with his daily-dissemble..

      ..that the only responses afforded him be requests for him to answer the above..first..?

      ..and as he is the editor (stuffs fist into mouth to stop uproarious guffaw of laughter)..of that politichek rightwing pressure-group..

      ..answering simple questions like that..

      ..should be a breeze for him..eh..?..)

      • Tracey 4.2.1

        great idea @ only response be to re ask these questions.

        in the meantime companies implementing living wage arent collapsing… but how can that be. good article in stuff today. slylands head will explode.

        • phillip ure 4.2.1.1

          chalmers organics..makers of tonzu tofu..

          ..went from just above minimum-wage to living wage..in one step..(about a 25% increase..)

          ..and i intend to promote them relentlessly..

          ..buy their stuff..!

          ..’when thinking of tofu..buy tonzu..!’..

        • srylands 4.2.1.2

          If you did 5 minutes of checking instead of endless drinking you would know that the stuff story is a propaganda piece by a green party activist. Of course many companies pay workers $18 per hour. Gee some even pay 40. It is called a market. I have no sympathy for anyone on minimum wage. Up skill. The only thing that surprises about the mw is that it is so high.

          Did you know that the woman interviewed was a green party activist? It should have been disclosed by the journalist.

          On related topic. Just returned from Napier. As usual every up market cafe / bar/ spa was staffed by European travellers because there are no suitable nz workers. I drove past a huge orchard with a sign out front “workers desperately wanted”. So get down there.

          • srylands 4.2.1.2.1

            Oh it is a miracle. In the last 10 minutes tbe journalist has added the disclosure that Chalmers i s a green party official.

            • Tracey 4.2.1.2.1.1

              so chalmers doesnt own that business and doesnt pay everyone above minimum wage by some margin. of course the part about how its aspirational and practical and will hurt not help isnt propaganda cos you agree with it.

              whooooooooooosh

          • Lanthanide 4.2.1.2.2

            “On related topic. Just returned from Napier. As usual every up market cafe / bar/ spa was staffed by European travellers because there are no suitable nz workers. I drove past a huge orchard with a sign out front “workers desperately wanted”. So get down there.”

            No “suitable” NZ workers who want to do the work while getting paid a pittance in bad conditions. European travellers, also known as backpackers, will do whatever job is going to get money to fund their continued travels – that’s hardly the same as holding a long-term job to pay for food, rent, electricity, petrol, car registration, doctors visits etc.

            Similarly for orchard work – it’s hard back-breaking labour with minimal pay.

            • srylands 4.2.1.2.2.1

              Your reply is an excellent example of the problem. You seriously think it is oj for healthy unemployed people to take a benefit instead of working in an orchard?!!

              • Te Reo Putake

                Actually, you ignorant twat, a lot of Hawkes Bay people go off benefit to work in the fruit industry during the season. As do folk in the BOP, Otago etc. They work for, surprise, surprise, the minimum wage., so with travel costs factored in, they are little better off financially. The answer to that conundrum is obvious. Lift the minimum wage.

                • Rogue Trooper

                  The horticultural and food processing industries rely on dormitories of casual labour, usually brown, returning to income support in their off seasons.

              • vto

                Go jump in the lake srylands, employers are not willing to pay a person a decent days pay for a decent days work, so tough fucking luck.

                I have no sympathy whatsoever.

                More people should tell employers to jump, and go on a benefit. Bludgers is what these employers are, nothing less. Bludgers.

              • Lanthanide

                So your plan seems to be to ship unemployed people from other parts of New Zealand to Napier where they can work in the orchard, because the orchard “desperately wants” workers. For a couple of months.

                What are all of these people that you’ve moved to Napier going to to do for the rest of the year?

                See, it turns out, these are difficult problems that don’t have quick obvious solutions – because if they did, they already would have been applied.

                Orchard work is only ever going to work for a small proportion of the community, simply because it is only available for a small proportion of the entire year.

                • freedom

                  I reckon if such a sign existed srylands would have stopped, photographed it and posted it here whilst quoting from Bush’s Mission Accomplished speech 😉

              • Tracey

                last time you ran this crap i posted a job offer which specifically excluded nz residents. of course you ignored that and ran away to a new thread with your old crap.

              • greywarbler

                Sit down and tell us a story srylands. Now when you were very young you used to work on your father’s uncle’s farm/do seasonal work in an orchard picking/ work on the wharves/ work in the meatworks/ prune grapevines / pick and pack tobacco. Those were the days. People knew how to work then and be happy with their lot. blah blah. The great bum sitter with the enormous brain who knows the cost of everything and the value of nothing – when it comes to people.

                I saw a bit of a film called Snowpiercer with a cocoon of humans in an enclosed ecosystem being managed by a megalomaniac who knew how to manipulate people and who had no respect for them at all. Chilling. And it ended with the system being destroyed and two survivors stepping out into a frozen world, being viewed curiously by a polar bear. Back to nature. People like srylands would lead us to that very tipping point without questioning their own preconceptions.

            • Pete George 4.2.1.2.2.2

              “Similarly for orchard work – it’s hard back-breaking labour with minimal pay”

              Not necessarilyt. I’ve done a lot of orchard work since I was about ten and it wasn’t hard or backbreaking. Sure it was a bit physical but easy enough for anyone with average fitness levels.

              My three children (two female, one male) all did seasons of orchard work and were very good workers. They financed education and bought cars with what they earned. I know a lot of other people who have managed orchard work and have benefited from it.

              • Lanthanide

                So it’s a job for children and teenagers.

                Thanks for making my point.

                • I didn’t say that and it doesn’t prove your point of it being back breaking.

                  It’s easy enough for teenagers but there are many adults doing it as well, probably mostly adults.

                  • Lanthanide

                    My point was more that it doesn’t pay enough to live on.

                    Children and teenagers typically don’t need much money to live on.

                    • I’ve known a lot of people who have lived on it. Wages aren’t high (relatively) but are above minimum for good workers, especially as they become experienced, improve productivity and take on responsibilities.

                      And there’s usually quite a bit of free food involved.

                  • Tracey

                    can you answer these questions now that you more time than you originally thought

                    Open mike 21/04/2014

              • freedom

                never has the phrase “comparing apples and oranges” been so apt 🙂

                Some orchard work is by the hour
                Some is by the bin
                Some is casual hours only
                Some is done for kin
                Some depends on weather
                Some is months at a time
                Some means moving here and there
                Some is just a lie

                this nursery rhyme was brought to you by Pete George’s Handy Hints for Happy Homes

                (Q: What decade was all this orchard work? I am guessing pre millennium, I am guessing the 1980’s actually)

                p.s. Pete, maybe you forgot you have a list of questions from weka to answer, you have also said you were short on time today, so why are you even commenting on other posts? Please go answer weka’s questions

                • weka

                  +1 freedom. Not all orchard work is the same (depends on the kind of fruit being grown and how), and as far as I can tell, the people that do well are those that get the more responsible, better paid, more stable hours jobs. That’s not everyone. The people I know that do it alot and are ok either have jobs higher up the chain, or they’ve managed to set their lives up so they have low living costs (usually no rent) and they have other ways of making a living when there is not orchard work. It’s generally not a job if you have a mortgage or kids.

                • felix

                  “I am guessing the 1980′s actually”

                  I get a very strong sense that Pete hasn’t experienced much at all for 20 years or so. He seems utterly unaware of the everyday realities of life in NZ for most people.

                  He doesn’t think there’s much of a problem with unemployment or underemployment.

                  He doesn’t think there’s much of a problem with poverty.

                  He doesn’t even acknowledge a cultural binge-drinking issue ffs. Doesn’t affect most of us, he reckons.

                  Worst part is, he doesn’t think there’s much point doing anything about it either.

              • Paul

                I thought you were busy today and that’s why you couldn’t answer weka’ questions.

                • blue leopard

                  …perhaps he was too busy asking other questions and for links – in other words busy in the sense of avoiding answering Weka’s (and other’s) questions…

                  • Paul

                    Every time he comes on this site, we must ask him to deal with weka’s questions.
                    And if he won’t, we should boycott him.
                    Same policy for all the other RWNJs who come here to divert, distract and denigrate.
                    Their input ruins this site at times.

            • Tracey 4.2.1.2.2.3

              he is tired. he visited every up market bar cafe spa in napier. before easter he cared e about the poor now he has no sympathy for minimum wage workers who must somehow work enough hours to survive and pay to upskill.

              he also knows who all green party activists are which is strange for a mere tax something or other from kapiti coast.

              • Christine

                Responding to all those discussing the problems of being employed for seasonal work in orchards, vineyards etc, I suggest you look at the latest list (2014) of employers who are part of the Recognised Seasonal Employer (RSE) Policy and the spread of employers across the country from Katikati to Otago.
                http://www.immigration.govt.nz/employers/employ/LinkAdministration/ToolboxLinks/rse.htm
                While I think the policy is excellent for the Pacific Island communities, because it provides regular work, skills training and money for their communities, I think it is wrong that New Zealanders don’t make themselves available for this type of work. Effectively those of you who are saying that it is better to be unemployed that earning the minimum wage to do physical work in the orchards and vineyards are saying you are better than the Pacific Island people who are very happy to do this work. That attitude doesn’t seem respectful to the Pacific Islanders.
                Also, as taxpayers, we are all contributing to funding both the RSE scheme and the unemployment benefit because New Zealanders wont do this type of work. That doesnt seem fair to me either.

                • Tracey

                  sigh

                • karol

                  I talked to a woman in west Auckland who was looking for such work – in desperation. But, she is a single parent, and there weren’t any such jobs going near her home, and that would also enable her to carry out her child care responsibilities.

                • Murray Olsen

                  That’s a new RWNJ definition of racist, Christine – someone who thinks the minimum wage is too low. Wow.

          • fender 4.2.1.2.3

            “I have no sympathy for anyone on minimum wage.”

            Everyone knows you are a piece of shit, there’s no need to keep providing evidence on a daily basis.

            • srylands 4.2.1.2.3.1

              So why do you continually promote policies that hurt the poor? Plus you are rude.

              • fender

                “So why do you continually promote policies that hurt the poor?”

                I’ve never voted National/Act, doubt I ever will.

                Isn’t it time you mentioned you don’t know how to feel sympathy for anyone, or what sympathy actually is, or that kids with cancer somehow deserve it?

              • vto

                What is rude is employers who do not pay enough for a person to live on, that is what is rude.

                It costs less to pay the minimum wage than to keep a slave.

                You live in la la land

                • idlegus

                  for e.g. those foresty workers who work 10 hours a day in shite conditions on $16 an hour! i earn more than that at my comfy desk sitting on my bum with heating & a roof & heaps of coffee. thats plainly not fair, not fair at all.

                  & orchard work is indeed back breaking work!, i’ve done kiwi fruit, grape vine work & asparagus picking (in my teens, & travelling in my 20s), asparagus was a lot harder because you had to bend down for 6-7 hours a day, only young ppl can do that kind of work. so if you think orchard work is not back breaking then i actually doubt you have done any orchard work at all (unless you are the inevitable slow mo simpleton who just goes gets to do all the gopher type work around the property coz you can’t be trusted to do anything else).

                  • Tracey

                    they need to upskill and become a tax something or other from kapiti coast/wellington/australia, cos we need those.

          • Murray Olsen 4.2.1.2.4

            No one wants sympathy from the likes of you, SSLands. I see the person using the login today is not the polite one. My guess is that there are three of you. All your posts are propaganda pieces by an ACT party activist. You should disclose that.

  5. jh 5

    Sir Ian McKellen has a deeper understanding of New Zealand than most visiting stars. He talks about playing Gandalf again – and about Helen Clark’s startling confession.

    “I find your society genuinely admirable in many ways. For example, I met Helen Clark while I was in Wellington. I was invited to her official residence, and waved in by a lone policeman who didn’t even check who I was, then I had a barbecue with her. I congratulated her on the public’s enlightened attitudes towards racial issues, but she disagreed. She said to me that New Zealand was really a very racist country, and she was determined to do everything she could as prime minister to change that. I thought that was a very bold, honest statement to make to a foreigner, and I really respected her for that.”

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/sunday-star-times/features/3751531/Acting-giant-reflects-on-NZ-society

    So what did Helen Clark mean? More racist on average than other societies?
    What (if anything) did she do about it? Multiculturalism?

    I know there’s pay dirt here (people who have studied the right stuff!).

    • so clark obviously wouldn’t have thought of/spoken of maori as ‘haters and wreckers’..eh..?

      ..and how about that foreshore and seabed brouhaha..?..eh..?

      .and those nine long years of grinding the poors’ noses in their miseries..

      ..with of course..a very high number of those families living in grinding poverty..are/were maori..

      ..yeah..she really ‘did a lot’…

      ..a ‘lot’ of neglect/institutional-racism..

      • jh 5.1.1

        I prefer Queen Victoria owns the foreshore and seabed and (better still) all the land leased from Queen Victoria so Queen Victoria can use the money for her armies, hospitals roads etc (for the benefit of her brown boys and girls and white and banana boys and girls). Queen Victoria rarely rides her steed down the beach (whereas Maori frequently show up). But that’s beside the point.
        Evolutionary psychology makes good argument that humans are (by nature) racist in so far as they have an initial preference for people like themselves. Talking up your own group is healthy. Listen to any after game conversation when the local school creamed the visitors.

        • Rogue Trooper 5.1.1.1

          just so stories.

          • vto 5.1.1.1.1

            people not people

          • jh 5.1.1.1.2

            In his review article Discovery and Confirmation in Evolutionary Psychology (in The Oxford Handbook of Philosophy of Psychology) Edouard Machery concludes:

            “Evolutionary psychology remains a very controversial approach in psychology, maybe because skeptics sometimes have little first-hand knowledge of this field, maybe because the research done by evolutionary psychologists is of uneven quality. However, there is little reason to endorse a principled skepticism toward evolutionary psychology: Although clearly fallible, the discovery heuristics and the strategies of confirmation used by evolutionary psychologists are on a firm grounding.”
            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_evolutionary_psychology

            • jh 5.1.1.1.2.1

              Oxytocin promotes human ethnocentrism

              Results show that oxytocin creates intergroup bias because oxytocin motivates in-group favoritism and, to a lesser extent, out-group derogation. These findings call into question the view of oxytocin as an indiscriminate “love drug” or “cuddle chemical” and suggest that oxytocin has a role in the emergence of intergroup conflict and violence.
              To survive and prosper, individuals need groups whose members contribute information and resources. Because contributing resources and information makes oneself vulnerable to exploitation by others, group members need to know who to trust or to distrust, who can be expected to also contribute to the group and to reciprocate cooperation, and who may abuse in-group generosity and free-ride on others (1). A key mechanism facilitating such in-group cooperation is ethnocentrism, the tendency to view one’s own group as centrally important and as superior to other groups. Ethnocentrism manifests itself in positive valuation of (members of) one’s in-group. Such in-group favoritism signals loyalty and positive commitment to the group, thus rendering the ethnocentric individual a reliable and trustworthy partner. Ethnocentrism may also show up in negative valuation of (members of) out-groups. Such out-group derogation signals to in-group members who should be excluded from in-group resources and exchanges, and reduces the probability that in-group resources are inadvertently extended to out-groups (1–6).

              If in-group favoritism and out-group derogation have adaptive value and sustain in-group functioning, coordination, and cooperation, it follows that (i) throughout evolution those individuals who displayed in-group favoritism and out-group derogation and who detected such tendencies in others were more likely to spread than individuals lacking these capacities (5–8) and (ii) the human brain may have evolved to sustain ethnocentrism through yet-unknown neurobiological systems

              http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3029708/

            • Rogue Trooper 5.1.1.1.2.2

              Tooby or not To Be. ;). Its been a while since I read this. I certainly agree that Mind is adapted and selected for. Handy tool, the computer.

  6. A Zoologist For A Financial Shitstorm And A Wall Street Banker As Our Prime Minister. No Wonder We’re Tanking. My take on the housing bubble denial saga

  7. bad12 7

    From the Herald’s online version: ”Prison alone wont deter crims” says break-in victim,

    ”Gavin” who has been done over 5 times in the past 3 years by burglars gets my vote for Kiwi of the week, for this:

    ”I’m not sure prison is the ultimate answer, but it could be part of it, they definitely need some sort of decent education, some rehabilitation”,

    He thought the bigger issue politicians should be addressing was, ”the separation of wealth between rich and poor, which he believed was one of the key drivers of burglary”

    Wise words from a five time victim of burglars which will probably be ignored by the politicians he addresses as they continue the revolving door imprisonment policy, using the blokes taxes to build more of them and in effect re-victimizing Him all over again…

    • idlegus 7.1

      my take is if prisons worked, why is there still crime? & also this thing that some laws are acceptable to break, like opening hours in wanaka over easter. did you also read that thing where the police have had to pay out over $500,000 this year to ppl because of police fuck ups.

  8. some good news..

    ..kathryn ryan is on leave from nine to noon..

    ..and lyn freeman has taken her place..

    ..and what i really like about freeman..is that interviewing with/for her is not a gladitorial-struggle..

    ..she actually lets people answer the questions she has asked…

    ..and freeman is about the most skilled around at letting her interview-subjects breath..

    ..and to let them get to say their piece..

    ..and so they get to stand or fall on their own merits..

    ..and thus providing the best experience for the listener..

    ..whereas ryan is often unlistenable to..

    ..she has this propensity to sit there..hovering..looking for something to challenge/nitpick on..

    ..and she just rides over the interview-subject..

    ..so as the listener you are left with a clutch of half/unanswered questions…

    ..and yes..if an interview-subject is talking absolute utter shite..pull them up/challenge..

    ..the skill is clearly knowing when to and when not to do this..

    • Rogue Trooper 8.1

      +1

    • Chooky 8.2

      I like Kathryn Ryan…she is fantastic!…i miss her every time she takes a holiday from radio

      Lynn Freeman is good …but not as good as Kathryn Ryan!.

      ….but then again Lyn Freeman is a Vegan is she not?…or at least a Vegetarian…. a wee bit of bias there Philip Ure?

      • phillip ure 8.2.1

        just my personal ‘bias’ for interviews where you come away with the sum total of yr human-knowledge increased..

        ..with stuff to think about/maybe temper/nuance yr own views

        ..otherwise…why bother..?..

        ..everything else is just shades of jerry springer/that english twerp..jeremy someone..

    • Once was Tim 8.3

      +2
      Both None to Noon and Afternoons are much better when a locum is in place – but in particular, Lyn Freeman is great. Nine to Noon probably should have gone to her in the first place

      • Chooky 8.3.1

        personally I find Lyn Freeman too nicey nice and watered down to be a really great interviewer ( probably becase she doesnt eat meat..let alone go for the jugular or gnaw the bones) …..and I fear she lacks the intellectual range of Ryan…..she doesn’t ask the hard questions…she is better for the arts….i am sure she is a lovely person however

        • Once was Tim 8.3.1.1

          I reckon she’s a closet carnivore (Freeman I mean). I just find the work-life-balanced, regular gal with issssyooos, and her in depth (once was) knowledge of ‘the beltway’ (Ryan) a bit bloody nauseating at times. Plus she’s a total 3rd-wayer with a (no doubt, very balanced) portfolio. But …. different strokes for different folks I guess.
          I’m only glad she seems to have negotiated a substantial leave entitlement.
          RNZ though – still far better than anything else going

  9. Papa Tuanuku 9

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11241874

    You can tell that these were designed by a non-Maori, they are real Pakeha colours.

  10. Penny Bright 11

    As a politically-independent anti-corruption campaigner, who is not aligned to ANY political party I fully support this Green Party initiative, and look forward to ALL parties who genuinely support ‘transparency’ and ‘accountability’ doing the same.

    Greens push for disclosure policy to reveal MP’s ‘private interests’ (3:45)

    http://tvnz.co.nz/breakfast-news/greens-push-disclosure-policy-reveal-mp-s-private-interests-video-5937690

    What’s the problem with this long-overdue increase in transparency NZ Prime Minister?

    “Nothing to hide – nothing to fear?”

    http://tvnz.co.nz/breakfast-news/green-s-disclosure-regime-ridiculous-pm-video-5937797

    Green’s disclosure regime ‘ridiculous’ – PM (5:15)

    Just as NZ Prime Minister John Key exhibited wilful blindness in his continued support for dodgy John Banks, his defence of the indefensible Minister for Corruption (sorry – ‘Justice’) Judith Collins will not endear him to the voting public – in my considered opinion.

    There is a LOT more to come on this story ……

    Penny Bright

    http://www.pennybright4mayor.org.nz/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/ANTI-CORRUPTION-WHITE-COLLAR-CRIME-CORPORATE-WELFARE-ACTION-PLAN-Ak-Mayoral-campaign-19-July-2013-2.pdf

    • Chooky 11.1

      +100…Go Girl!

    • acomment 11.2

      You are wrong in saying they are asking for more transparency from all MP’s, they are only proposing more transparency from ministers.
      Not saying that there’s anything wrong with that, but i would respect it a lot more if it came from them when they were actually in power because this reeks of an empty pre-election talking point with little actual relevance.

    • Naki Man 11.3

      How about dodgy Penny not very Bright bludging from the Auckland rate payers.

  11. logie97 13

    Airline safety.

    Is it a fact that in its bid to improve its bottom line, Air New Zealand decided to move some of its aircraft maintenance offshore?

    • tc 13.1

      Major engine overhauls have been done in china awhile now, a local engineer would accompany and oversee some years back not sure about today.

      AirNZ is a budget airline in everything except its airfares.

    • Draco T Bastard 13.2

      Yes. The news of it came out some years ago. IIRC, there was something about it a few months back as well but can’t find anything.

  12. Rodel 14

    Just a thought.When do we get to see Winston interviewed by Gower? or have I missed it?

      • Rodel 14.1.1

        ER
        Yea Thanks .I missed it. Winston not quite as eloquent as before but still able to mock the Gowers of this world (Paddy.. let me answer from my experience, rather than your inexperience -love it). And his response to entrapment ‘questions’ like…. ” What you’re saying is…..”.when that’s not what they’re saying at all.
        I don’t vote for Winston but he’s good and I hope he’s part of the Labour coalition.

      • Jim Nald 14.1.2

        Cheers.

        Winston is clear in terms of protecting the retirement age @ 3’50” – 4’23”

        Question: “.. if Labour tries to change the retirement age, you’d go to the cross benches again”

        Winston: “… I think they can be persuaded if that was the issue , I think they can be persuaded that that fatally cost them the election ..”

        Winston: “… what’s a priority in the context that there is no fiscal reason when it is near 4.3 per cent of GDP to be panicking as Jenny Shipley and Financial Services Council are trying to get (?you) to do so, they can get to control the industry and take out (?biddings) and favours …”

        [feel free to improve on the above transcript]

  13. RedBaronCV 15

    And at the Herald. Joyce changing university boards to be dominated by businessmen. Universities as free trainers for corporates funded by the kids borrowing.
    So now we are going to have our young people borrowing money to fund their studies to save companies having to invest in training them.
    How about a market solution from the corporates, they can provide paid internships to give work experience and fund the study costs of graduates in the disciplines they are short of and they need to be doing this before they can scream skill shortages.

    Joyce telling universities what to teach

    I find myself in vague agreement with the Herald

  14. ffloyd 16

    Listening to Williams and Holton this morning and the subject of Cunliffe not fronting up to Campbell live was brought up. Well on seeing the little bit that I could stomach of the key family at home(snigger) item I wouldn’t of turned up either. It is documented knowledge, stated by key himself that he hardly ever goes to that derelict looking place he call a bach. So why would he choose to use it as the destination for the interview. Campbell made a right toady of himself with the gushy bit about Obama la la la la.etc. That’s when I turned off, so possibly it got better. ?? or not. So key is being his usual devious self but Cunliffe would be expected to have his interview or whatever you might call it at his actual home because people might think he is trying to hide his wealth and he’ll get caned by the media again. I don’t see the problem with Cunliffe delaying his ‘at home’. He had genuine reasons which have been reported, Campbell made to much of it, and he looks like he was played by key. Don,t think much of him at the moment.

    • Chooky 16.1

      +100 ffloyd….Cunliffe should take control of his media appearances not the other way around( if he doesn’t want to be interviewed in his home for family privacy reasons then good on him!)

      ….lets hope Campbell gets back into the real hard question journalism of which he is capable

      ….not the frothy ‘Women’s Weekly’ and ‘House and Garden ‘ variety

      …this is what is wrong with the msm at the moment ….concentration on trivia rather than the Hard questions

      …hard questions involving

      affordable housing for young New Zealanders
      education
      corruption
      the issues Xtasy brings up ie support for those most in need …(in fact I suggest John Campbell does an in interview with Xtasy…this is the real side of NZ….not John Key’s mansions…sick making)

      • phillip ure 16.1.1

        he is doing ok on the legal-highs question..

        ..and he seems to be coming around to a gupta-moment..

        ..and he may well start arguing soon for decriminalisation/regulation/taxation of cannabis..

        ..’cos of course..you do know that legal cannabis would see the legal-high problem disappear in a puff of bong-smoke..eh..?

        ..how much further will we let dunne lead us down this dead-end alley..

        ..where we have police/health-professionals..all screaming to do something..!

        ..the ‘something’ is the decriminalisation/regulation/taxation of cannabis..

        ..anything else is just pg-fretting/auto-eroticism..

        ..and this will just get worse and worse..

        ..how bad will it have to get..?

        ..(and dunnes’ most recent answer on the cannabis question..was to say..

        “..two wrongs don’t make a right’..

        ..could he be more of a simplistic-fool..?

        ..plus he is deeply fucken corrupt..

        ..he has been bought/owned by the tobacco/booze-pushers since forever..

        ..and guess what..?..guess which drug-pushers don’t want pot legalised..?

        ..yep..!..the booze industry..

        ..the man is a pox on the land..

        ..that his son earns from/works for this new bunch of poisonous/legal-muck pushers..

        ..is kinda beyond irony..

    • Rodel 16.2

      Listened to a bit of Williams/Hooton until I got tired of Hooton’s Foxdistortion-monologues. Admit to being disappointed in Williams, a man that I once admired. No fire left?

      • phillip ure 16.2.1

        re williams..he sold out..a long time ago..

        ..he is now a full-time neo-lib apologists..

        ..and one of my favourite williams’ recent quotes..

        ..was his sneering at the activists returning to labour…as all the mad people having come back to labour..

        ..(these he is sneering at are those who left labour because of labour losing its’ way up that neo-lib dead-end road..that tells you’ll you need to know about williams..

        ..he is a rightwing trout..)

    • idlegus 16.3

      i agree, that home piece was appalling but nearly all the media pundits all gave it glowing reviews! dunne & peters both garnered a little respect from me by them declining. keys one was all about him being ‘normal’ & how awesome he is at talking to children! & playing with some little girls pony tail which was a bit creepy imo. if campbell didnt know he was being used by a master manipulator (key) then hes a tool.

    • tc 16.4

      Shonkey is a highly staged media event full stop. He knows it’s his medium to play like that guitar he refers to but that was a private conversation apparently.

      Absolutely no unscripted questions allowed and the best spin available from your mates like Hooton, O’Shillivan etc when you go off the ranch and put your foot in it by doing crazy stuff like inviting the opposition to a debate.

      Bet the backers and minders told John Phillip to STFU and stick to the smile and wave, leave the messaging to us. The only debate he’ll do is one where sympathisers like Hoskins can protect him from himself.

      Campbell is lightweight with the occasional burst of enthusiasm but it’s sugar rush jonolism, once the high’s gone they go looking for another.

  15. Rogue Trooper 17

    RNZ Midday Report. CTU to take legal action over deaths of two of the 32 forestry staff killed since 2008.
    The television news showed Worksafe climbing all over crews, with RNZ reporting 25 crews instructed to stop immediately; entrenched “non-compliance concerns”.

    meanwhile Jones states he “wouldn’t call Gardiner a friend…”. hmm, must just be an uninterested admirer of his posture then…

    A worker at the coal-face of addictions claims the impact and extent of synthentic cannabis abuse is greater than that of metamphetamine; children as young as nine…deep sigh…

    The Queensland Fruit-fly makes fruit and vegetables inedible! Cabbage Fight! (ducks).

    “Our lives end the day we become silent about things that matter”. Martin Luther King.

  16. Rogue Trooper 18

    for greywarbler – I visited a church recently rolling in a non-canonical gospel for ‘spiritual’ success. Across two services on the same Sunday, much the same congregation were persuasively asked four times for money- eftpos at the rear of the hall, IOU’s accepted. 😎

  17. Rogue Trooper 19

    Ruataniwha Water Storage Scheme
    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11241616
    The plug may yet be pulled.

    • bad12 19.1

      This from the article is interesting: ”The complex plan change, setting tougher nutrient leaching limits in the catchment and requiring farmers to implement individual enviromental management plans, raised fears at the Council that farming in the area would become uneconomic”,

      Whoever is raising such fears deserves the dunce award, scientific soil mapping, paddock by paddock in places where soils are apt to change types frequently has been shown to boost production,

      Along with such boosted production comes less use of both water and nutrients as soil mapping also identifies the optimum time for the use of water and nutrients on the proposed crops, SO, with intensive soil mapping we can tell exactly what can be grown where while producing NO off farm leaching of water or nutrients and NO leaching of the same into the water table,

      Instead of just dumping water and nutrient on paddocks and crops because that is the way its always been done soil mapping will be the next revolution in farm management and i am pleased to see this irrigation scheme has attached to it individual management plans that will likely mean the farmers have to soil map all their farms,

      Now all we need is the body with the resources and the will to rigidly Police such management plans and i don’t think that this can be simply left in the hands of Regional Councils…

  18. Bernard Hickey Shows Himself The Ignoramus I Always Thought He Was And Here Is Why:

    In an article today Bernard Hickey actually made an attempt to counter Jesse Colombo’s 12 point list as to why we were not heading for an economic bubble bust of epic proportions and in doing so showed once again how NZ economists really haven’t got a clue about what is going on globally and I will show this by taking his talking points and show them for the misleading uniformed trash they are.

    NZ has a floating exchange rate and flexible interest rates

    There are plenty of candidates to generate a shock to New Zealand’s economy that could cause our house prices to start falling. The IMF warned in March that a sharp slowdown in China could do the trick.

    In this point he is arguing that the IMF predicted the same possible down turn but they mitigated the prediction by stating:

    Hickey says: However, the IMF rightly points out in the very next sentence that New Zealand has some automatic stabilisers (SIC) to deal with just such a shock.

    The authorities have monetary and fiscal policy space to respond to shocks. The RBNZ has scope to adapt monetary conditions to help buffer against a downside scenario, and the free-floating New Zealand dollar provides an additional cushion against terms of trade and other external shocks. New Zealand’s modest public debt gives the authorities scope to delay their planned deficit reduction path in the event of a sharp deterioration in the economic outlook.

    My response: First of all Hickey is not denying the possibility of a down turn and that is wise. What he argues is that in order to delay a planned deficit reduction path (read austerity for the 99% but more for the 1% like in Greece, Ukraine, to name a few) there is space to borrow more.

    This is not a sensible response to the risk of a global cascading financial down turn. This is just more of the global bankster kicking the can down to road fraud. And while it may postpone the inevitable collapse of an unsustainable collapse of the fiat currency system which at the moment has to print money by the trillion to keep going.

    What is equally misguiding is his notion that we can cut the interest rates which unlike the rest of the Western world are being raised making it more difficult for people to pay their mortgages.

    So far it hasn’t materialized in higher interest on bank savings for example.

    The real reason why interest rates in the US, UK and other Western countries are next to zero is that they are so for the rich. Those of us who have to buy a kitchen appliance on a credit card or GE pay 20% – 30%. The interest is not a tool which is used for the betterment of New Zealanders but to make a whole sale wealth transfer of the 99% to the 1% possible by preventing deflation and encouraging inflation. The only people suffering under this are those on fixed incomes. The rich, the bankers and others close to the reserve banks lending spigot sea their incomes rise with the money creation level. A very comfortable lace to be to be sure but the rest of us will find it harder and harder to make ends meet and that includes the mortgages that keep the bubble going.

    Our Government has room to borrow to cushion the blow

    Jesse diplayed (SIC) an alarming chart showing a tripling in the Government’s overseas debt in nominal terms between 1993 and 2012. Unfortunately, that didn’t show the net and real value of that debt in relation to our economy, which is the most important thing.

    New Zealand’s net government debt has risen from less than 10% of GDP to under 30%. US Government debt is over 100% of GDP, Britain’s public debt is over 70% and Ireland’s debt to GDP ratio is over 120% of GDP.

    As the current government proved from 2008 to 2012 when it kept…

    Read more

  19. Raa 21

    Bye bye, Tariana.

    It was nice getting to know you …

  20. Paul 22

    At first, this seems just a very dull article about golf, a sport I don’t much appreciate. But scratch the surface, ignore the headline and you’ll find hidden within details that show that NZ’s middle classes are now being impacted by the depression and austerity policies of the government.

    One quote in particular show the new unequal New Zealand. A NZ where wealthy foreigners buy up our land, the rich 1% of NZers travel round the world to play their favourite golf courses and the rest of NZ go backwards.

    Mr Stuart said many British clubs were closing and the same changes were affecting the sport in this country.
    “The dynamics are interesting because at the top end, there’s no problem, with people who want to go around the world and play golf. It’s in the middle that we’re all fighting for members,” he said.

    2 other interesting points…the Nat M.P. involved and the US and Chinese money taking over our country.

    If only the NZ Herald knew how to frame a story and write a headline.
    They have missed the real story here.

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=11241885

  21. Ennui 24

    Jones quits…..good riddance, fair weather friends are not what Labour needs. My initial reaction to the excuse that he could never become leader due to the new way of electing a leader was soft cock. Did he ever realise he would have to earn it? Now off to work for National, theres loyalty, not!

    • Paul 24.1

      “He has been in talks with Foreign Minister Murray McCully for some time about a possible role in an international fisheries management role and expected that to go through.”

    • amirite 24.2

      Ennui +1000

  22. ffloyd 25

    Well, well,well. Shane Jones has gone!!!! Kelvin Davies? stepping in. Immediate. Got to be a good thing. Maybe settle things a little bit.

  23. bad12 26

    TV3 saying tonight Jones is to resign from the Parliament, now that’s what i call a good idea…

  24. ffloyd 27

    Just seen a photo of key in my fish and chip wrapping newspaper and his hair looks ginger. Does he dye his hair or wear a rug?? Just wondering.

  25. SouthDeez 28

    I was just wondering, how come Pete George’s ban was lifted?

    [lprent: He got banned in August 2012 for (yet again) trying to tell us how we should run our site – something that we give fair warning about being dangerous to do in the policy.

    We lifted all outstanding bans in a well publicised amnesty in March 2013. This gets done periodically because most humans do have this facility to be able to learn from experience, so we give them a chance to rejoin the noisy and robust arguments going on here.

    His absence after that was purely voluntary.

    He has been mostly been following the policy guidelines he started commenting again a month or so ago. Despite all of the moaning about his comments, he hasn’t really overstepped the bounds since. ]

    • karol 28.1

      There was an amnesty for all bans a while back.

      • lprent 28.1.1

        Ummm. Must look at a amnesty again. It really has to be soon so we can eliminate the ones who are too dumb to read the policy before full-blown election season arrives. Or after the election.

        There are a few still serving out long bans and about ten or twelve previous regulars who picked up permanent bans since March last year. Most bans of the latter were banned for trying diversion trolling at the top comments in posts. Haven’t really had to do any of those that I can remember since early this year.

        That is a very dangerous sport that as who knows when we have time to bump their preferred posts to OpenMike. If we’re short of time, then we stop warning and start banning to reduce the workload. We find this kind of semi-random sentencing risk helps to ensure people are very cautious about their exposures to the edges of the policy.

        Then there are a pile of simple trolls who got booted off the site after a couple of comments for being stupid trolls (we rather like playing with the smarter ones). We’d have to cull the ones who haven’t picked up the capabilities to survive here out again. Saw quite a few “first-timers” come through today who didn’t manage to write anything intelligent for any viewpoint in several comments and didn’t make it past first moderation.

    • Paul 28.2

      He’s like a weed choking the oxygen out of a waterway.

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