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Open mike 22/05/2016

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, May 22nd, 2016 - 69 comments
Categories: open mike - Tags:

openmikeOpen mike is your post.

For announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose. The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the Policy).

Step up to the mike …

69 comments on “Open mike 22/05/2016”

  1. ropata 1

    Waatea News with David Cunliffe, Nandor Tanczos & Dr Bryce Edwards. Coverage of fish dumping, economic mismanagement, and people living in garages and cars

    • Chooky 1.1

      +100 …thanks…good viewing…David Cunliffe looking great!..he has the credibility of a moral Left leader…he could beat jonkey Nact convincingly

      Bradbury as usual asks the crucial questions

      • Chuck 1.1.1

        “he could beat jonkey Nact convincingly” In what century Chooky? have you forgotten he lead the Labour party to the slaughter house in 2014 (25% vote).

        • Colonial Viper 1.1.1.1

          You’ve made a mistake. That’s a pathetic electoral result which the careerists in Labour scapegoated on to Cunliffe, but which they fully contributed to themselves.

          Cunliffe needed a full term as Leader in order to make his mark and overcome his deficiencies. But his “colleagues” were never going to give him that chance.

          I believe that Labour currently has a more than 50/50 chance of coming in under 25% in 2017.

          • Chuck 1.1.1.1.1

            I can accept that.

            So in a prefect world (for Labour) Cunliffe would be allowed to have the time to cement his position and purge any colleagues that may undermine him?

            Is there a way back for Cunliffe? (genuine question).

            • te reo putake 1.1.1.1.1.1

              Is there a way back for DC? No, for two reasons. One is that Andrew Little is doing fine as leader and is in a good place to be PM after the next election. There is no mood in the party, affiliates or caucus to change. The second reason is that Cunliffe wouldn’t go near the job even if it was handed to him on a plate. Once bitten, twice shy.

              • Colonial Viper

                TRP, Little is already gone, he just doesn’t know it yet.

                Grant Robertson will win the leadership in 2018 hands down.

                • Yeah, right. The first part of that comment also applies to you, brother 😉 Robertson is never going to be leader, his chance has been and gone. But it’s heartening to see him and the rest of caucus working together for a change. I know you hate the thought of a Labour led government, but it’s going to be a distinct possibility in less than 18 months, unless the Nats find a way to buy Winston off.

                  • Colonial Viper

                    Hmmm interesting that you can’t see GR positioning all his own people throughout the organisation.

                    My opinion remains – GR will be the (almost undisputed) Labour Leader in 2018. There is one other serious potential contender in the wings but it won’t be Cunliffe.

                    • I can’t see it because it’s not actually happening. Grant doesn’t have ‘people’ he can ‘position’. That’s just your fantasy about how things work. The truth is much duller; the only way to get ahead is to work hard, have good ideas and to win people over via the party’s democratic structures. That also applies in the Greens and if I’m to be charitable, it’s probably applicable to National too. NZ First, not so much. I like Grant btw. But he has as much chance of being leader as I have. And I’m sure Grant and I are equally sanguine about that reality.

                    • Colonial Viper

                      Okay dude.

                • Hanswurst

                  Genuine question: Is there anybody outside the Labour caucus who has even the slightest interest in Grant Robertson? I don’t dislike the fellow. A binder of posters here seem to think that he’s some sort of devious Machiavellian operator, a short of McCully in Labour clothing, if you will. I have no idea whether there’s any truth to that or not. The thing is, though, that I just see him and think “meh”, whether he’s talking about policy, asking questions or whatever. Even Parker seems more passionate, and that’s saying something. I can’t see Robertson really even registering with the electorate, whether positively or negatively. The same goes for Ardern, by the way.

              • Rosie

                I don’t have the inside knowledge that yourself and CV have (even if you have different perceptions)of the internal workings of the NZLP but I’d say Andrew Little is doing a fine and steady job. There have even been times when I’ve been impressed with him, most recently during his low key on the level response the Hagaman threat.

                And, you know, I voted for him last on my ballot paper! I was a major Cunliffe fan girl. I was gutted about how things turned out, but Little has settled in, he will be the right person to lead the next government. There won’t be fireworks but there is heaps to do and heaps to mend and he can be the one to get that process started.

                To vote and change leaders yet again would be such a dogs breakfast and make the party look unstable. The election is only next year so we just gotta buckle down and focus on kicking these nation destroying bastards out.

                • Whateva next?

                  Absolutely, I liked D.C but grew weary of the polarising effect he sadly seemed to have. I did vote for Andrew and was utterly convinced about his integrity and ability to steer a steady course and unite the caucus, without which there was no point in carrying on. I noticed that when we were at the first hustings, all four candidates were understandably nervous and busy readying themselves reading their notes…..Andrew simply sat and looked out at us, calmly and confidently, interested in US, not worried about himself.
                  He has achieved this and now we can carry on with the rest of it now.

            • Bill 1.1.1.1.1.2

              My tuppence worth would be (first penny) – if Labour chose leaders via an election system of one person, one vote, then possibly.

              Penny two – Labour, and this is in no way limited to Labour, seems to position itself within a TINA framework on too many issues, and so is essentially dead to too many people.

              And if I can up my tuppence to thrupence – distilling political rumblings from across the English speaking world suggests that a seismic shift in peoples’ political expectations and demands is under way – and that most political parties are going to be caught flat footed.

          • Olwyn 1.1.1.1.2

            @ CV: Suppose you are right about this, as things stand, and that you and Swordfish were largely right in your talk of factions on yesterday’s open mike. This actually gives reason to campaign for a Labour victory with a particular end in mind – to gain the government benches with the nonaligned Little in charge at best, and to increase the size of the Labour caucus at worst. This is not a “vote for the least-worst argument”, although prima facie it may look like one.

            Firstly, careerists are not all the same – some will move leftward if that looks like the thing to do. So an increased caucus would allow room for a change of direction that would take at least some careerists along with it. Secondly, while some are said to be retiring soon, the Labour caucus has had less staff turnover in the past eight years than most businesses, which means entrenched office politics among a static group. This presents Little with an impasse: in a way, he can’t increase the size of the caucus without first increasing the size of the caucus. Joining Labour to push for an acceptable leader has not got us far, though it has got us somewhere – Little is not one of the entrenched right-wing /careerist lot. Maybe the next move is to activate the membership and the sympathetic left to fight from the outside to increase the Labour vote, and thus the size of the caucus, without necessarily giving our allegiance to particular individuals we think have let us down.

            • Colonial Viper 1.1.1.1.2.1

              Hi Olwyn,

              You pose serious scenarios with serious rationales. I agree with the guts of what you have to say about the psychology of the Labour caucus. It is under real pressure currently.

              Most of the List only MPs in that caucus are only a hairs breadth away from losing their positions at the party vote ballot box.

              Also with your analysis of how intransigent the situation Little faces with some of his most influential MPs is. One of the things which finished Cunliffe was that Cunliffe had zero plan to deal with that.

              I will add in one more factor. IMO Winston will find it politically impossible (both internally and externally to NZF) to justify supporting a Labour managed government if Labour get less than 30% at the polls.

              Let’s say Labour gets 27% in 2017, and National gets 45%.

              In such a situation I think Winston will end up providing de facto support to a National (minority) government even if he would prefer not to. Key will extend the NZF caucus a deal that they cannot refuse. Gold Card Mark 2, GST free rates, bump up to NZ Super, a Cabinet position for Winston and Ministers outside Cabinet positions for his top MPs, and more.

              Maybe the next move is to activate the membership and the sympathetic left to fight from the outside to increase the Labour vote, and thus the size of the caucus, without necessarily giving our allegiance to particular individuals we think have let us down.

              I can see where you are going with this. However, Labour has been bleeding its best activists and members for years now (and in some cases the local MP has been delighted to get rid of over-active members who cause more trouble to the MP’s particular desired status quo than they are worth). If Little wants to energise the latent support in the electorate for Labour and get a lot of on the ground activists back on side, he needs to offer the electorate serious, political economic alternatives to what National has been delivering.

              The concept of “activating the membership” in order to fire up a grass roots campaign for Labour is a great one but it is a concept only. There is no way of implementing that concept in practical terms as most Labour branches have decayed to inactive shadows of what they were even 10 years ago, there is no money in Wellington to provide to the branches for campaign activities, and from my perspective the charismatic leadership does not exist in the Labour hierarchy which can turn that switch on in the general membership and ‘wider left’ anyway.

              • Olwyn

                I do not think it would be easy to fire up the grass roots, but that doesn’t mean it’s impossible. The idea might be to seize opportunities where they arise, and support and strengthen the grass roots movements that currently exist, rather than overly concern ourselves with Labour branches. It is not a good idea to stand back and let Labour slowly die when we lack a serious alternative to it. We already have a right wing so licensed and full of hubris that it could practically get away with running over the peasants for fun – they will only get worse while we scurry around trying to pick up the pieces.

    • Paul 1.2

      It would be good to hear Andrew Little and James Shaw speak in as forthright as a manner.

      • Colonial Viper 1.2.1

        Just use your imagination, is what I will say. Then return to reality.

        This is a vindictive Labour hierarchy that has decided that Cunliffe belongs unranked on the back benches, in a short sighted attempt to drive him out of politics altogether.

        Cunliffe has some significant flaws as a political leader, but he still noticeably outshines the current leadership and the pretenders to that leadership.

        • Paul 1.2.1.1

          Did you hear this?
          Needs to be published widely.
          About US and applies completely to New Zealand.

          http://www.radionz.co.nz/audio/player/201801602

        • Paul 1.2.1.2

          What did he do wrong?
          I guess he challenged the status quo.

          • Colonial Viper 1.2.1.2.1

            He tried to placate the careerist and right wing MPs in his caucus not understanding that they were always going to be waiting for the right moment to slip the political knife between his ribs.

            He also let down many of his own supporters by giving up on his own direction and deciding to subsume his priorities to the business as usual Thorndon Bubble crowd.

            • Hanswurst 1.2.1.2.1.1

              I wonder if he mightn’t be a little me forthright if given a second bite of the cherry.

        • Richardrawshark 1.2.1.3

          David was always and still is my preferred leader. Unfortunately the right wing media hated his guts, or were to scared to give him a shot against Key they manipulated public perception against the man.

          Then some in Labour are again there for personal reasons of ambition not what Labour stands for. IE back stabbing abc’s

          Oh the above video looked like a Labour party weak version of the Nation.

          The presenter sure wasn’t making any pretence of impartiality was he.

          I turned it off after Cunliffe.

      • Chooky 1.2.2

        if David Cunliffe were to come back as leader of the Labour Party i would vote Labour…as it is i am a nonfunctioning member…i joined to support David Cunliffe as the members choice

        so I will be voting Green /NZF…so no losses there

        ….however if Labour is to stop languishing in the polls …it really does have to think about how it played the leadership against Labour membership wishes

        • Paul 1.2.2.1

          If David Cunliffe were to come back as leader of the Labour Party I would also vote Labour.

          So I will be voting for a party that provides the most vigorous alternative to neo-liberal capitalism.
          Struggling to notice it, though.

  2. Bill Drees 2

    Westminster Social Engineering

    The mortality rate is 15 percent higher in Glasgow across all social classes and ages, while premature mortality (dying under 65) is 30 percent higher, and much higher among the poorest in the city. The so-called ‘Glasgow effect’ means more people die from the cancer, heart disease, strokes as well as drugs, alcohol and suicide than do in other comparable cities.
    http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/14493634.Revealed____39_Glasgow_effect__39__mortality_rate_blamed_on_Westminster_social_engineering/

    “Glasgow got a double-dose of neoliberalism – the UK Thatcherite version, and the more local version led by the Scottish Development Agency and the Council.

  3. AsleepWhileWalking 3

    Nice cartoon today title: Why not ask WINZ for some cake?
    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/property/news/article.cfm?c_id=8&objectid=11642636

  4. AsleepWhileWalking 4

    “America should write the rules and call the shots” – President Obama

    An interesting episode of CrossTalk re the TPPA.

    • ianmac 4.1

      Watched that Asleep. Terrifying that USA can avoid being held to account and can a do attack any country with immunity. Drones. Iraq. Afghanistan. John Key.
      Veto Security Council.
      Bluddy Hell!

      • Chooky 4.1.1

        +100…this is one of the best sites for debate and commentary on international current affairs imo…it always has international experts involved in the debates…leaves NZ tv and newspapers for dead!

        ( and I was put onto this site by The Standard…thanks!)

  5. dv 5

    Give a little Justice for Bessie has raised nearly $100k

  6. RedBaronCV 6

    Looks like the May Roy Morgan is out?

    • The RM consumer confidence survey was out a few days ago. No sign of the political poll yet. Generally they’re released later in the week, so maybe Thursday or Friday?

    • veutoviper 6.2

      It does not appear to have been released formally as yet, although the Confidence Survey results have already been released as TRP mentions in his response.

      However ( a BIG OOOPS, perhaps) … the Party poll 15 May results appear to be up on the RM website in one graph (but not in the commentary which is still the April results) . – Click on this link and then go down to the first graph.

      http://www.roymorgan.com/findings/6772-roy-morgan-new-zealand-voting-intention-april-2016-201604260544

      IF these May results are correct/finals then, compared to April: National is up from 42.5% to 45.5%; Labour up from 26.5% to 29.5%; Greens down from 14.5% to 12%; NZ First down from 12.5% to 9.5%; and Maori Party down from 1.5% to 1%.

      The graph does not show the undecided percentage or results for the other parties eg ACT, UF etc.

  7. Chooky 7

    This is very good!…a feminist Accountant!

    http://www.radionz.co.nz/national/programmes/sunday/audio/201801607/pala-molisa-a-ni-vanuatu-radical-accountant

    “Pala Molisa – A Ni Vanuatu Radical Accountant

    Pala Molisa is the son of two of the leading lights of Vanuatu’s independence movement, he represented Vanuatu in weightlifting at the Commonwealth Games, and he’s an advocate of a radical new accountancy that brings a whole raft of social indicators to your typical balance sheet. Pala Molisa is a lecturer at Victoria University Business school.”

    • RedBaronCV 7.1

      pretty sure he’s the guy that spoke at one of the climate change evenings in wellington and he got a huge ovation for best input of the night

    • joe90 8.1

      meh – representatives of a group contributing less than 15% of government revenue say shit

      https://deborahfrussell.files.wordpress.com/2015/05/govtrevenue2015.png

    • RedBaronCV 8.2

      Interesting The actual run a company ones wanted education investment , getting unemployment down (and improving wages?) and most mentioned enviroment concerns. The tourist ones wanted to socialise the costs of their industry, time for a bed tax on the multinational chains?? , the business group members seemed to be parroting the Nact party line. Perhaps the companies that pay membership fees to these groups need to make sure they are expressing their concerns not those of the Nact hierarchy.

    • Graeme 8.3

      I’m pleasantly surprised by David Hisco’s (ANZ CE) focus on moving tourism up market and environmental focus. A refreshing contrast to Tim Alpe and Roger Brantsma who both play in the lower strata of the tourism market and can only see more, more and more of their low yielding customers and the socialisation of the resultant costs. However HIsco will get to see the performance of a wide range of tourism businesses and can see where the sustainable profits, and looming risks are.

      It’s also a considerable departure from current government policy around tourism, which is typified by Alpe and Brantsma’s views of more, more and more and stuff the yield.

      Angling for, or seeing a looming change of policy or government? This tourism business owner hopes so.

  8. adam 9

    If you need a laugh

  9. adam 10

    Seawards, go Seawards!!!

    • Colonial Viper 11.1

      If these are stored on a computer or network, then the security services can access them in near real time.

    • Rosie 11.2

      These are the buses I use in my neighbourhood. I noticed the sign about the audio recording on Thursday.

      I’ve no problem with it due to the reason the Mana bus boss points to:

      “That incident could range from and assault on a driver, a threat against a driver, a theft or attempted theft, through to a complaint from a passenger about a driver’s behaviour.”

      Believe me, that happens around here. You can also be on the bus in the middle of the day and there can be a bunch of drunk people down the back. The last time it happened it was no problem, they were all just singing their heads off and talking bollocks. No problem there, but what if it turned nasty if it can sometimes do when people are wasted and a bit unpredictable?

      Mostly theres no problems in my experience but there has been some times when drunk people have been a bit edgy and slagged off the driver.

      While I’m wary of surveillance intruding into our lives, mainly on line and on smart phones I’ve no problem with practical applications like this. I actually feel a little more secure seeing that sign about the audio the other day.

  10. Graeme 12

    Liz Clark to contest Invercargill.

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/80207129/dr-liz-craig-nominated-as-labours-candidate-for-invercargill

    I hope this doesn’t turn into a 3 way between Liz, Ria Bond and Sarah Dowie, that would be a waste and probably perpetuate Dowie’s existence. Also hope Liz gets a decent list place this time in case she’s only campaigning for party votes, we need her in the house with her health knowledge and sharp mind.

    This also provides an opening in Clutha Southland for a candidate with strong rural and small business credentials.

    • Colonial Viper 12.1

      Liz Craig

    • cowboy 12.2

      Graeme, I suggest it cant help but be a 3 way battle. Liz Craig will certainly be a credible challenger but the coverage to date has discounted the promising start Ria Bond has made down here at a grassroots advocacy level, which isn’t going unnoticed.

      I agree it would be good to see someone of Liz Craig’s ilk providing a much needed refreshing of labours list.

      As far as Clutha Southland is concerned I think the most interest will be around who NZ First will come up with as I think they have the best chance of giving Barclay a run for his money in the majority rural segment. Granted he has a massive majority but clearly he has struggled big time. Winston speaking in Gore tomorrow which should give a good gauge on how the Nats are rolling.

      • Graeme 12.2.1

        I look forward to your report Cowboy, could be an interesting evening. Bit far away for me on a Monday unfortunately.

        • Cowboy 12.2.1.1

          Might pop over for a look given weather for tomorrow not that condusive to getting much done. Will report if I do as it should be interesting to see how Winston is received in the deepest of blue national heartland.

  11. joe90 14

    Surprise surprise….
    /

    Edward Snowden has responded to reports the CIA inspector general’s office “mistakenly” destroyed its only copy of a comprehensive Senate ‘torture report’ with a stinging rebuttal: “When the CIA destroys something, it’s never a mistake.”

    An intelligence agency was quoted by Yahoo News as saying CIA inspector general officials deleted an uploaded computer file containing the report, before “inadvertently” destroying a disk with the document on it.

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/people/edward-snowden-warns-cia-never-destroys-something-by-mistake-after-agency-claim-it-destroyed-copy-of-a7038206.html

  12. joe90 15

    IDF deputy chief of staff Brigadier General Yair Golan delivered a Holocaust Memorial speech.

    Speaking to an audience gathered at Tel Yitzhak, a kibbutz in central Israel, Maj. Gen. Yair Golan, the Israeli Defense Forces deputy chief of staff, warned Israel that the Jewish state threatened to fall into a moral chasm like the one that befell Nazi Germany for its treatment of “foreigners” — read: Palestinians and African refugees.

    Here are some of his remarks [author’s translation]:

    “The Holocaust should bring us to ponder our public lives and, furthermore, it must lead anyone who is capable of taking public responsibility to do so. … Because if there is anything that frightens me in remembrance of the Holocaust, it is noticing horrific processes which developed … in Germany – 70, 80, and 90 years ago, and finding evidence of them here among us in the year 2016.”

    “The Holocaust … must bring us to … deep soul-searching regarding the responsibility of [our national] leadership and the quality of our society. It must lead us to fundamentally rethink how we, here and now, behave towards the other: the foreigner, the widow and the orphan [these are traditional Jewish social justice concepts].”

    “There is nothing easier and simpler than hating the foreigner … There is nothing easier and simpler than fear-mongering and making threats. There is nothing easier and simpler than behaving brutishly, being indifferent [to the plight of the Other], and self-righteous.”

    “On Holocaust Remembrance Day, it is worthwhile to consider our capacity to uproot the first buds of intolerance, violence, and self-destruction that lie on the path toward moral decay.”

    […]

    Characteristically, Golan was savaged for his outspokenness by far-right government ministers who harbor some of the same racist attitudes the major general was attacking.

    In this context, it’s worth examining a political controversy inflaming the British chattering and political classes. This one has inundated the Labour Party’s left-wing leadership with controversial attacks by the British pro-Israel lobby and the largely pro-Tory press.

    https://www.mintpressnews.com/israeli-defense-forces-general-likens-israel-1930s-germany-holocaust-remembrance-day/216436/

  13. The Chairman 18

    Less than two years into a five-year plan with the Government to build 7000 new homes in the capital, the city council has admitted it will never achieve that goal, having missed every target along the way thus far.

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/80226908/new-homes-cant-be-built-quick-enough-to-cool-wellingtons-hot-property-market

    • Colonial Viper 18.1

      This is a country whose management which after years of planning couldn’t even get the trains to a Rugby World Cup opening.

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  • Speech to Labour Party Congress 2020
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