Open Mike 22/11/2016

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, November 22nd, 2016 - 174 comments
Categories: open mike - Tags:

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Note: Open Mike is now for US politics too.

174 comments on “Open Mike 22/11/2016”

  1. Paul 2

    Nice that a corporate who struggled to find the money for the victims of Christchurch has enough money to plaster their logo all over the New Zealand rugby team’s jersey.
    They have sold their soul to big corporations.

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=4&objectid=11752045

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/the-press/business/the-rebuild/69310952/Christchurch-homeowner-to-lead-IAG-class-action
    http://www.stuff.co.nz/the-press/news/christchurch-earthquake-2011/8053446/Taking-on-the-insurance-titans

    • m.gray@massey.ac.nz 2.1

      Yes agree with you Paul that is a very good point about AIG ( State Insurance) greedy pricks haven’t looked after the people and their customers

  2. Geoff Miller and Mark Blackham suggest in an NBR article:

    Mr Key is our own populist politician. Like Trump, he is wealthy and not a career politician.

    Mr Key’s inherent anti-political nature frequently motivates him to behave in ways which we would not previously have expected from a prime minister.

    In some cases, such as in the ponytail affair, MrKey has gone too far and ended up apologising for his actions. But generally, his non-conventional style and willingness to make fun of himself have helped him to stay astonishingly popular – despite being eight years into the top job.

    When Mr Key leaves, his populist touch will go with him, exposing the public to a parliament awash with careerist politicians who play it safe, deal in slogans and spin and have no way to forge a genuine bond with voters as Key has done.

    The question for many of New Zealand’s MPs ahead of the 2017 election is whether they will heed the lessons of 2016’s Brexit and Trump political earthquakes.

    If politicians dish up election campaigns that keep to the stale and uninspiring establishment recipe, they will guarantee and intensify voter backlash.

    https://www.nbr.co.nz/article/john-key-new-zealand%E2%80%99s-only-bulwark-against-%E2%80%98trump-effect%E2%80%99-196896

    Key’s departure may well leave New Zealand exposed to a voters’ revolt.

    But there’s no sign yet of anyone not stale and uninspiring who could attract the protest votes.

    A third of New Zealand’s MPs have only ever worked inside the government system. Another third built no real career before they tried to get into Parliament.

    That’s alarming.

    For most current MPs, the secret to being elected is attending a well-regarded secondary school, going to university and joining a political party on campus and finding a job in the public sector or as a political party staffer. After making the necessary connections with the right people inside the parties, the final step simply requires a little behind the scenes manoeuvring to secure a place on a party list or safe seat and make it into Parliament.

    By failing to forge careers unrelated to politics, the current crop of MPs largely lacks genuine insight into the lives of New Zealanders who live outside the Wellington political establishment.

    Who will emerge to lead the fight for us versus them?

    Can our party and MMP systems allow someone fresh to have a chance?

    • One Anonymous Bloke 3.1

      Stale, and uninspiring. Watch as Petty George makes yet amother feeble attempt to bad-mouth the Left, and simply ends up describing himself.

      When your only representative in Parliament in a cross between a weathervane and a hairstyle…sob.

      • stunned mullet 3.1.1

        Why bother bad mouthing the left when you do such a fine job of bringing lefties into disrepute with your daily commentary.

      • James 3.1.2

        Oab – you seem to have difficulty replying on the subject and just going for the attempted insult – should you not like the views of the person commenting.

        I know it’s difficult for you – but having reasoned discussion is interesting and beneficial.

        Being a poor quality troll is not.

        • One Anonymous Bloke 3.1.2.1

          I’m inspired by Julie-Anne Genter and Marama Davidson, among others. So Petty George’s attempted smear falls at the first hurdle.

          If you can think of a reason why beige flame-bait doesn’t deserve a robust response it might be the first original thought you’ve ever articulated.

          • bearded git 3.1.2.1.1

            Metiria’s speech in Parliament refusing to congratulate Trump was pretty inspiring.

            • AmaKiwi 3.1.2.1.1.1

              + 1

              I read it in The Guardian but couldn’t find it anyplace in NZ, not even on the Greens website! (It might be there someplace, but it was not headlined.)

          • Pete George 3.1.2.1.2

            I have no idea how MPs with the integrity of Julie Anne and Marama would inspire the type of abusing, lying and smearing that you’re well known for here. I doubt they would want to be associated with any of it.

        • One Anonymous Bloke 3.1.2.2

          Correction: technically it’s more astro-turf than flame-bait but hey.

          [I didn’t read PGs comment. Instead, and as a little ‘thought experiment, I read your comments to see if I could glean what PG’s comment might have been about. I got nothing. Seems that over a one and a half hour period you contributed nothing but snipes and a waste of space to Open Mike this morning. Up your game. Or, if all you want to do is spend time attacking people and making no comment relating to what they’ve said and offering no contribution to any debate/conversation on the substance of what they’ve said, then find yourself some “smash” message board somewhere else. If you think the topic they’ve raised or the argument they’re making isn’t worth your time, then that’s fine. Ignore it. Stop assuming people will find value in a stream of vacuous, space hogging commentary. ] – Bill

          • One Anonymous Bloke 3.1.2.2.1

            Imagine if you applied the same brand new rule to your little Unterdrumpfenfuhrer mate from Dunedin. Raise the double standard.

    • Gabby 3.2

      Hopefully not an even bigger charlatan.

    • Ad 3.3

      Absolutely no sign of Key leaving. Not a story.

      Charismatic.
      Or policy-focussed and leaves clear legacy of good change.
      Which?

      The worst possible combination is highly charismatic and no policy.
      Which is what we have.

      The NBR and Fran O’Sullivan in the NZHerald have long chastised Key for having massive stores of political capital, great charisma, and yet zero coherence or policy drive or in fact doing anything of note.

      Even deep into a third term, he has no agenda, no structure, no delivery, not a single item he can say would be confidently remembered in three years’ time.

      By that measure Key is the laziest PM we have had since Holyoake’s last term as PM. That’s longer than my lifetime.

      Key had to get out of bed for the earthquakes, but on any other measure of executive or legislative action, Key has achieved very little at all. (A few Treaty settlements that Crown Law were delivering anyway? – woo hooo.)

      Far better to have a couple of terms with someone boring leading the country who actually gets something done. Give me low charisma with effective bold policy any day.

      • greywarshark 3.3.1

        @Ad

        Far better to have a couple of terms with someone boring leading the country who actually gets something done. Give me low charisma with effective bold policy any day.d

        I agree wholeheartedly with the above Ad. In fact this might form a pointed slogan at the next election egging on people of intelligence to examine what is leading them to vote National, and jerk themselves back to the wise people they purport to be.

      • Bill 3.3.2

        Still picking that Gareth Morgan is going to attempt to break through all that smash by positioning the Opportunities Party around evidence based policy that doesn’t bend to the supposed needs of ‘muddle’ NZ. (He’s already indicated that)

        Also picking that if he does launch an actual political party, then our glorious establishment stenographers will run hard against him – cat killer, just another Trump, not a ‘real’ politician etc.

        Whether NZ’s in the position for that to lead to an almighty voter backlash is debatable. But it could happen. And I’m thinking that if I had the choice between a Winston Peters or a Gareth Morgan holding the balance of power, I’d know which one I’d prefer.

        • weka 3.3.2.1

          I’m thinking he might pick up swing voters that aren’t committed NZF voters but usually end up with NZF by default. Fresh air comes to mind.

          I’m not sure about whether he can hold the balance of power in the traditional sense, as he’s ruled out being in coalition. But voting on a case by case basis, that could be very interesting not least if it shakes people out of the duopoly. I hope that doesn’t come at the expense of a centre/left govt.

          • Clump_AKA Sam 3.3.2.1.1

            I’m just gana go out on a limb and predict on magic mic that Morgan will get 5%. If you’re a former ward of CYFs/WINZ/Inland revenue/police/Defence member looking to cut paper work Gareth will look really appealing, he’s got new philosophies and a track record to back it up. He also hasn’t made a mistake which is rear. Magic mic predicts T.O.Ps gets well over 5%

  3. Italy Calling 5

    “The most powerful way to oppose him, but it was never really done seriously, was to try and understand what his voters want and try to address the need of his voters. No jokes, stop shouting, stop crying, stop saying: ‘It is a horror and disaster’; try and seriously understand what his voters want, and the left was never really successful in doing that,

    Advice on opposing Berlusconi………. or Trump or Winston Peters or John Key or Paula Bennett and their immitators.

    [if you are quoting, it’s good to provide a link or reference. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/nov/21/if-berlusconi-is-like-trump-what-can-italy-teach-america Thanks – weka]

    • One Anonymous Bloke 5.2

      In other words, Bernie Sanders.

    • Peroxide Blonde 5.3

      The Standard’s writers could take this on board.
      Labour could take this on board too. They do not have the ear of the majority of lower paid workers, contractors and small business people.

      • Bill 5.3.1

        Unfortunately, there seems to be a penchant from the large liberal section of society to simply mock and/or dismiss and/or demonise those who aren’t on board with themselves.

        It’s been going on for years and probably won’t stop any time soon. Which is fine. They’re only marking themselves as increasingly irrelevant these days.

        • Pasupial 5.3.1.1

          Is there a source for Italy Calling’s quote? I’d like to be able to read it in context, However, it doesn’t seem to me that being grimly focused on the nuances on policy detail was the key to success for Trump, Berlusconi, or Key.

          Rather, it was the ability to give the folks a show that swung the deal. This is a problem for reality focused politicians, as that this kind of bullshitting can’t really be learnt (or at least; not to the level of expertise to those who have been doing it all their life). Is the role of a leader to entertain the punters for votes, or is it to develop policy to benefit the country? Trying to do both will reduce accomplishment in either.

          I’d contend that; as realists can’t contend with the bullshit artists on their own playground, they should concentrate on demonstrating their integrity. Take Sanders for instance; his campaign wasn’t soaked in scandal because their was no muck to rake. He couldn’t even be derided as a socialist, because he was in your face with it.

          • Andre 5.3.1.1.1

            Googling the quote found https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/nov/21/if-berlusconi-is-like-trump-what-can-italy-teach-america

            Looking at the numbers of voters, it looks to me like turnout is a big part of this election’s story. Trump won just a few hundred thousand votes more than Romney, Hillary was several million votes short of Obama. Hillary simply didn’t enthuse people to go out and vote for her. Take me for example, I’m as close to being a Hillary supporter as anyone here on TS and I’m well aware that most of the negative talking points about her are bullshit smears. But I still couldn’t muster real enthusiasm for her, more like half-hearted attempts to debunk the bullshit.

            So while I agree Bernie’s integrity was a clear point of difference, I question whether Bernie would have mustered enough extra voter enthusiasm to have made the difference. If we look at the primary results in the states that mattered, Bernie lost Florida, Pennsylvania, Ohio, North Carolina, roughly equal in Nevada, Michigan, Iowa, and only won Wisconsin convincingly.

            I can’t think of any credible Dems that could go against Trump on showmanship for 2020. So integrity will be a good point of difference to have.

    • Olwyn 5.4

      The crucial part is … try to address the need of his voters…, as opposed to turning on those who his voters, in their exasperation, would like to see punished or deprived. Capitalism has always been good at divide-and-rule, neoliberal capitalism has been outstandingly good at it, and it is important to avoid all suggestion of it.

    • McFlock 5.5

      But that’s looking for a homogeneous response from a broad range of actors and political opponents. And it’s also assuming that the demagogue’s voters want something that can be expressed by anything other than flashing lights and generic, barely-focused anger.

      Policy promises might alleviate some support from those that understand and are inclined towards them. But a demagogue’s base support is around personal charisma to a fanatic few. They act as the anchor and recruiters for additional supporters. A rational but complex policy platform can never compete with an irrational and vague appeal to broad discontent. And even an opposing attempt at demagoguery is on the back foot as long as it keeps itself tied to rationality and reality.

      So what do a party/opposition do? Weather the storm and take it on the chin until it blows itself out, or decide that post-truth is in, lie and bullshit as much as the other guy, and hope that we can return the dialogue to rationality after we lie our way into power? Good luck putting that genie back in the bottle.

  4. greywarshark 6

    Well perhaps TS can now have a NZ Matters Now Open post where it is only NZ-based comments can be put so those who want to think about NZ first can do so.

    I am sick of USA stuff dominating the discourse on every media and we have enough troubles to face some of us want to think about our reality. This would mean that if the USA is mentioned it would be in reference to how NZ is faring or being affected by them, or indeed from any other country.

  5. Ffloyd 7

    I woke up this morning to a beautiful day feeling happy and positive. You know, the old tra la la feeling. Well! That didn’t last long. Hearing that Ferguson was going to be interviewing Andrew Little about National’s’ tax cuts I thought (stupidly as it happens) that it would be worth a listen as it is totally disingenuous of the Nats to even put cuts out there at the moment. The interrogation followed her usual m.o when it comes to all thing Labour. No comment that I heard from her about the possibility of tax cuts being positive or negative but an absolute rude bad mannered, undisciplined attack on A.L about what was Labour going to offer at election time to put money into peoples’ pockets (Key has already acknowledged that TCs will not advantage low income earners).I am picking that this deviation into WHAT WILL LABOUR DO!! wouldn’t have been on Andrews radar so he would have been totally unprepared. And she made no attempt to listen to his answers. To top it all off I heard on the car radio Toxic Susie gleefully, with beautiful enunciation read out two extremely negative letters from listeners stating that Andrew Little is a poor speaker and ‘very uninspiring’ etc. Odd! TWO letters saying basically the same thing. No other letters read out that I heard. Must have missed the complimentary ones and I bet there were some. Sounds like a jackup! These readers obviously haven’t heard Key speak. This is person who can’t open his mouth properly to speak, can’t use whole sentences that make any sense, mostly uses one syllable words and everything he does say is open to interpretation. Go figure. Bluddy annoyed! Phew, that feels better. Unfortunately this is just the beginning. sigh.

    • Garibaldi 7.1

      Ffloyd, you are dead right about SF. She is quite a nasty piece of work – her ‘interviews’ are a disgrace. I refuse to listen to her . I can’t understand how Kim can bear to work with her. Obviously she (SF) is just what RNZ management want!
      The other comment I have is that Andrew Little MUST take media lessons. He is cringeworthy in interviews, which is such a shame. We cannot excuse his lack of training in front of the media because IT IS VERY IMPORTANT.

      • Siobhan 7.1.1

        Spot on Garibaldi, to say the question “wouldn’t have been on Andrews radar so he would have been totally unprepared” is just so misguided.
        What politician goes into an interview criticising the Government without a statement for their own future intentions.

        Little needs to start talking like a man on a mission…where was the passion?, where was the outrage??

        If Little doesn’t throw off the shackles soon the election is going to be a rather pointless exercise for Labour. His need to appease and keep the centrists onside, to present a unified Labour Party, may well be his (and our) undoing.

        • The Chairman 7.1.1.1

          “What politician goes into an interview criticising the Government without a statement for their own future intentions.”

          As Labour have yet to fully formulated their policy, they’ve largely been doing this (criticising the Government without a statement for their own future intentions) for the last couple of years.

          • Siobhan 7.1.1.1.1

            You know I keep holding off criticising Labour for that very reason…but even if they do not have actual policy they really need to have something to say when being interviewed.
            Sure the average voter can nod their head and agree to statements like “End Poverty” “House for Every NZer”……but they are hardly ‘Party Message’ statements to engage the voter and the clock is ticking.
            I’m sure even Bill and John could squeak out those sorts of sentiments if they really really really had to. Or maybe not.

            • The Chairman 7.1.1.1.1.1

              I’ve highlighted the problem a number of times.

              It seems Labour prefers to keep their powder dry.

              The first question tends to be what would you do? And when you have little in the way of policy there is little you can offer voters as an alternative.

              • Colonial Viper

                It seems Labour prefers to keep their powder dry.

                I hate that analogy; how about this one – howitzers are useless at spitting distance.

                It’s less than 12 months before the election and Labour have not been educating and shaping the discussion on the ground for alternative ideas and alternative policies.

                So next year it is going to be, once more, a case of which party can be the better National Party.

                The answer to which is already obvious to every voter in the country.

      • The Chairman 7.1.2

        “Andrew Little MUST take media lessons. He is cringeworthy in interviews, which is such a shame. We cannot excuse his lack of training in front of the media because IT IS VERY IMPORTANT.”

        This^

        Little is failing to sell the party message well. Work on improving this should have started long ago. The election is not far away, can Little up his game in time?

        The fact their policy is lacking doesn’t help.

      • Colonial Viper 7.1.3

        The other comment I have is that Andrew Little MUST take media lessons.

        He has been ffs, since before he was officially announced as Leader.

        • Garibaldi 7.1.3.1

          Hi CV. If what you say is true then he had better change his tutor.
          Welcome back by the way.

  6. aerobubble 8

    This morning NR, i heard that taxes were rising faster than gdp, which is odd since since the giant tax switch that raised my taxes zero and lowered wealtheir nz taxes, the more they made the bigger the drop. So i’m guessing they mean taxrevenue is rising fast than gdp. Which ahain is odd since the quality of product i buy has dropped and i having to buy better higher price milk and meat than i did, at a higher gst. So guessing here the higher tax revenue is caused by the poorer quality of the gdp growth forcing me to spend more. And so the pay day, the profit taking, tax cuts for wealthy people begins again. Poor economic outcomes meet profit taking churn…

    • greywarshark 8.1

      The price of average beef mince at my supermarket seems set at $11.99 most of the time, when it’s on special. That means a considerable percentage rise on previous special price which could go down to $8.99.

      Lamb shanks are now about $4 each for mostly bone. We gave them a try the other day but poor cost effectiveness. Lamb shoulder chops, used as bbq fare are specialled at $11.99, daren’t look at loin chop price.

      I try to support Blackball West Coast, I think, butchery and buy their sausages which are being offered at supermarket at about $18 kilogram, up from about $15 just last year. Everything up as if it was the 1970s. Weird that.

      Reminds of a British cartoon from years back. Just beside the door to the meat section was a finance desk offering fast cash if you had your house title with you for collateral.

      • Siobhan 8.1.1

        By the time I boil out all the water or whatever it is my local Pak n save pumps into the meat I reckon my $12 a kg chicken nibbles packet is more like $17.00 a kg…crikey that’s a bit of a earthquake roll…

        • greywarshark 8.1.1.1

          I hope you keep all that liquid and turn it into soup, a bit of onion, carrot and some pasta and it would make a nutritious meal for ten!

        • greywarshark 8.1.1.2

          Chooky
          Thinking about chicken – where are you Chooky? You popped up a while ago and i haven’t seen you since. Am I just looking at the wrong time?
          Hope all is going well and progressively for you. Perhaps you could come on Sunday when Robert Guyton is telling us about his philosophy and his edible forest with garden? And I think he has chooks too!

  7. The Chairman 9

    Former inmate is seeking compensation from Corrections for not keeping him safe.

    Apparently an inmate smashed a pool ball into the right-side temple of his head within an hour of him arriving at Mount Eden prison. Leaving him with brain damaged.

    http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/national/318541/investigator-questions-corrections'-story-on-prison-attack-video

  8. Takere 10

    Interesting weekend with the Navy goings on and equake …. Come Monday morning a financial earthquake happens over the weekend where the NZ dollar tanks by 7 cents and not a peep? Tweeted the usual suspects, liam dann, Bernard H, ect …. nothing.
    The Trump effect? US bonds at all-time high’s(since 2008).
    I just thought it worthy of mentioning as this could accelerate the decline of the housing market & the cost of borrowing heads north …. impacting on all domestic economic activity?

  9. Draco T Bastard 11

    7.3 quake off Fukushima triggers tsunami warning

    A powerful 7.3 magnitude earthquake has struck Fukushima Prefecture in Japan, USGS reported. A three meter tsunami wave alert was issued for Fukushima, Nippon reported.
    The quake struck 67km northeast of Iwaki, a city located in the southern part of the Hamadori coastal region of Fukushima Prefecture, Japan.

    Getting rather active lately around the Ring of Fire.

    • Bill 11.1

      Those fuel rods still sitting up in the air?
      Everything went quiet on that front after a brief spell of bullshit propaganda about how it was all ‘in hand’.

      And what about those cores – two of them from memory. They been contained yet?

      What about the general wash of radioactive poison seeping into the Pacific from the Fukushima plant? That been reduced or stemmed yet?

      • Clump_AKA Sam 11.1.1

        From memory when reactor 1 cascaded, melting the core, the fuel rods fused with the rubble. And clean up teams are using pucy hydraulic arms to move each rock one at a time. I don’t know why they don’t go big and use remote 1700-1800 boggers/loaders. Just need a good 1500 horse power engine with the right attachment.

      • Draco T Bastard 11.1.2

        Couldn’t say. It’s not something that I’ve been keeping abreast of.

      • Cinny 11.1.3

        Thinking of you Japan, may your seawall hold, may the damage be minimal, and may the nuclear plant be unscathed.

        Hiyas Bill. My sister visits Japan often, has done for over twenty years, she says no one says anything about it, it’s been forgotten. Media are good at helping people forget. One does not mention the “f” word over there. She said one would never even know it had happened.

        So situation is all decontamination is to be completed by 2017. Here’s a PDF with more info written by the Japanese Minister of Environment from May this year, titled ‘The Current Situation of Off-site Clean-­up in Japan’ it describes the decontamination happening in the Fukushima area and surrounds.

        I’m interested in the answers to your questions too

        http://josen.env.go.jp/en/news/pdf/news_160600_01.pdf

        • Clump_AKA Sam 11.1.3.1

          I’d take anything containg Fukushima, gov, jpn simultaneously with huge doeses of salt and sarcasm. Everything is being stored on site in plastic bags. Iv nothing against the individual workers themselves because they are brave as fuck, I’m no doctor but even I know 60% of those workers will receive premature cancers. Just that fact alone is enough for the Japanese government to want to save face and bullshit through there teeth, every year those estimates get pushed to the next year.

          • Cinny 11.1.3.1.1

            nicely said Sam

          • greywarshark 11.1.3.1.2

            Thanks for all that in this thread. Bill I think, had some serious doubts about outcomes a year ago based on his study of the reports.

            It is so hard to keep monitoring these events as the ineffectual though well paid politicians and CEOs of private and public entities continue to fudge their way through the problems to a point where they can retire from the race with a going-away package and be replaced, after some perhaps cosmetic, tackling of the problem, It’s the new Olympics, perhaps call it the Inorganics Relay Race where they don’t pass a baton, but a hot (perhaps radioactive) potato.

            (See Pike River mine actions as sample representative of the technique.)

          • Garibaldi 11.1.3.1.3

            The last report I read about Fukushima said that it has overtaken Chernobyl in terms of scale and that all marine life in the Pacific has now been contaminated ( Northern far more than Southern), and that radiation is still leaking into the ocean.
            That was about 6 weeks ago. Naturally they have been dreading another quake.
            The truth will not be told to us so don’t expect them to come clean about what the effects of this new quake have been.

            • Clump_AKA Sam 11.1.3.1.3.1

              I’d squeeze a wedge of lemon in my eye to give you an accurate picture of my attitude about pollies taking over blue collar work

        • adam 11.1.3.2

          Wow Cinny, that pdf was nothing but out and out propaganda. Really well done propaganda, but propaganda none the less.

  10. Puckish Rogue 12

    Well done Labour and well done National, something for everyone involved with to be proud of

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/industries/86672626/talks-to-begin-on-upgrading-nzs-free-trade-agreement-with-china

    Since the FTA was signed, trade had quadrupled to reach $9.2 billion

    • Siobhan 12.1

      Something for everyone??
      So why are we still having to subsidize workers crappy wages with Working For Families and accommodation Supplements??
      Why are NZers carrying more debt than ever??
      And why are we having to import labour from ‘third world’ countries??
      Why do we have so many homeless and, just as important – people with uncertain housing and uncertain jobs??
      And why on earth are hard working NZers stuck at home sitting in armchairs because they can’t get on a waiting list for a knee op.? Or, you know, going blind while they wait for an appointment??

      What ‘everyone’??
      “Show us the money!!”

      The only true thing is ‘Labour and National’…because indeed, they are one and the same when it comes to Free Trade and its fallout for the workers.

      Well done Labour and well done National…the wheels of Free Trade Neo Liberalism are coming loose around the World…now what??

      • ropata 12.1.1

        It seems the fine print of these FTAs obliges us to

        sell NZ sovereign territory to foreigners
        let China dump third grade steel here
        let companies like Oravida get around legislation intended to add value
        turn NZ primary produce into cheap commodities
        poison our lakes and rivers with stock effluent

  11. Adrian Thornton 13

    Tragic moment this morning, Andrew Little with all the opportunity in the world to attack National over it’s bizarre tax cut plan, exposed himself and Labour yet again as having nothing to substantially offer the working and disenfranchised citizens of NZ, just a bunch of words, no policies, no meat, barely even a bone to gnaw on for the few deluded remaining faithful.

    Still I guess when you are tied to your now totally defunct and debunked free market, third way centrist ideology, what can you do if you are a real really believer in your ideology, you do what it demands, even if it will destroy you all in the process, as the Democratic party and their MSM attack dogs in the US just spectacularly showed us all. Labour in the UK only just avoided the same fate, but only by the power of the people, telling their Labour Party centrists to fuck off in no uncertain terms have they survived, and now stronger than ever.

    Turn Labour Left. the only sane choice.

  12. greywarshark 14

    How bankers stay positive, turning bad news into lemonade, champers
    or Glenfiddich!
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/content/dam/business/2016/10/09/6861_10102016.gif

  13. Rosemary McDonald 15

    Worthy of a post all of its own…

    http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/national/318644/man-criticised-over-disability-launches-political-party

    “A Dunedin man who caused a stir when he ran for city council is starting a political party that aims to improve funding for people with disabilities

    Joshua Perry, who has cerebral palsy, was told by a fellow council candidate before the recent local body elections that he was brave for standing, because people would find it difficult to understand him.”

    The link was sent by a mate….we had just got off the phone after spending half the morning phoning other mates in the disability community to facilitate a better wheelchair for one of us. Doing the job that should be done by the incompetents that the Misery of Health funds to do the job.

    Joshua will get at least six more members of his party… because we in the disability community are over the shit we have to wade through.

    And,…..no other party gives a shit.

    • Draco T Bastard 15.1

      And,…..no other party gives a shit.

      Labour, Greens, NZFirst minority report

      • Rosemary McDonald 15.1.1

        One aspect only….education.

        Many more areas where all parties could have, should have done better.

        Trouble is, for some of us, our disability history goes back nearly fifty years…supports have become less secure, less efficient and much less safe.

        Non ACC disabled New Zealanders have fewer rights and entitlements than twenty years ago.

        I feel for parents of children with disabilities struggling to get proper educational supports…but y’all might have to accept that as being the norm…way into your child’s adulthood.

        It is now legislated that family are responsible for providing supports.

    • Macro 15.2

      I think you need to tell that to Catherine Delahunty – and see what sort of response you get! She and the Greens and Labour and NZ First are all working bloody hard to get Nats to front up on this issue. I know. There was some hope last year when the Nats agreed to hold a Special sub committee on the matter – one senior Nat MP has personal experience of the matter, ( our family all submitted to the committee and my daughter in person) but the resulting Report was a complete whitewash, as per usual with this crowd. Got to have our tax cut bribe next year! So check out the minority report. The proof is there. The Greens Labour and NZ First do give a shit

  14. Draco T Bastard 16

    For the ‘new yellow journalists,’ opportunity comes in clicks and bucks

    “CAN’T TRUST OBAMA,” he writes as the headline, then pauses. His audience hates Obama and loves President-elect Donald Trump, and he wants to capture that disgust and cast it as a drama between good and evil. He resumes typing: “Look At Sick Thing He Just Did To STAB Trump In The Back… .”

    Ten minutes and nearly 200 words later, he is done with a story that is all opinion, innuendo and rumor.

    We see a lot of this sort of shit in NZ as well from well known bloggers known to be full of rancid fat.

  15. Sanctuary 17

    What the actual fuck is this guy doing in New Zealand??/ Who invited him??? Shame on our government.

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11752735

    “…A president nicknamed “The Punisher” because of a war on drugs that has killed thousands of people is in Auckland.

    Philippine president Rodrigo Duterte arrived in Auckland this morning where he will spend one night before returning to the Philippines…”

    Can’t he be arrested here and put on trial in the Hague?

    • Colonial Viper 17.1

      Duterte is doing what the people of the Phillipines elected him in to do. Amongst other things, to put an end to the infection of narco-politics and narco-corruption in their country.

      Public officials at every level of the Filipino government have been compromised by drug money and drug bribes.

      If drug dealers in the Philippines resist arrest, attack or shoot at law enforcement officers, then yes, Duterte has said in multiple interviews that he prefers that those criminals end up dead rather than his public servants.

      • Cinny 17.1.1

        CV, Yes he is very popular with his local population, but he is nothing more than a glorified murderer in my eyes.

        “Since Rodrigo Duterte was elected President of the Philippines, in May, more than three thousand people have been killed in a vicious drug war.

        When a reporter asked about his health, he replied, “How is your wife’s vagina? Is it smelly? Or not smelly? Give me a report.”

        Duterte does not, as he has put it, “give a shit” about human rights, which he sees as a Western obsession that keeps the Philippines from taking the action necessary to clean up the country.”

        Interesting article… http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2016/11/21/when-a-populist-demagogue-takes-power

        One should not have to commit thousands of murders to control the drug situation in a country.

        Sanctuary, i did see a picture of him and our outgoing PM at APEC.
        http://dzrhnews.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/11/head11-14.jpg

        • Colonial Viper 17.1.1.1

          No doubt Duterte is not handling things in a way that is acceptable to our civilised liberal western eyes and ears.

          However, most of this media noise falls within the usual western demonization programme of any foreign leader who is no longer a team player against Russia and China.

          • McFlock 17.1.1.1.1

            Funny how extrajudicial murder seems to be associated with a pivot towards Russia or China.

            • Colonial Viper 17.1.1.1.1.1

              Use all the moralising pejoratives and anti-China/anti-Russia smears that you want, but Duterte is doing the job that he was elected for, cleaning up the drug gangs and drug dealers in his country like he did for Davao city.

              These drug dealing criminals have the choice to surrender themselves to the authorities and to the judicial process without a fight of course, unfortunately the Filipino death penalty for drug trafficking probably makes that less likely.

              • McFlock

                Sorry, did you object to the policy description or merely it’s coincidental association with the foreign policy pivot?

                These drug dealing criminals have the choice to surrender themselves to the authorities and to the judicial process without a fight of course,

                funny how thousands of suspects suddenly decided to commit suicide by cop only after Duterte was elected. The alternative, of course, being that many of them were not actually given that choice.

                • Colonial Viper

                  Go get your Filipino citizenship and vote him out then. Or maybe we should help regime change the Philippines and extraordinary rendition him to the Hague?

                  • McFlock

                    Even if I did, I’d be relying on him to pay more respect to electoral law than he does to criminal law. You can’t pick and choose which bits of a constitution to respect and still claim to be anything other than a thuggish overlord.

                    • Colonial Viper

                      I love these self-righteous western moral proclamations, keep them coming, it’s really winning the world over.

                      Meanwhile, Duterte regularly reminds home crowds that the Americans killed 200,000 Filipino civilians when the US airforce firebombed Manila in order to attack the Japanese.

                    • McFlock

                      You’re sort of a reverse-Voltaire: you sit here and enjoy a nice middle class lifestyle and freedom of speech, and a fair chance that if the cops think you’ve done something wrong then you’ll have your day in court to defend yourself – and you’ll use those freedoms to actively support the extrajudicial murder of others.

                      America’s bad, m’kay? But so is duterte. What makes you think he’ll stop at supposed drug dealers?

                    • Colonial Viper

                      Duterte is cleaning up the narco-politics and narco-corruption of the Philippines exactly like he said he would if elected by the people. He was, and he is.

                    • McFlock

                      What makes you think he’ll stop there? Are journalists safe?

                    • Colonial Viper

                      Who knows, I ain’t a mind reader. He is however delivering on his promises to the electorate.

                      But keep up with your western colonial smears, they suit you.

                    • Bill

                      Just how completely have you lost the plot CV?

                      He may have been elected on the back of some ‘tough on drugs’ ticket (I don’t know), but what you’re excusing is parallel with some NZ Party promising to eradicate poverty….and then sanctioning extra-judicial killings (murder).

                      And McFlock. Can you please stop doing a running interaction and inadvertently encouraging this , well…I dunno what to call it. It’s fucking sad and apparently running across issue after issue. I know or suspect there’s an element of entertainment involved from your perspective. But yeah…

                    • Colonial Viper

                      Bill, I recognise that different places do things in different ways. It’s not a radical idea.

                    • Bill

                      Yeah. People doing things in a variety of different ways – that’s cultural diversity and a whole lot of other stuff which, I think my anarchist leanings give me a far better appreciation of than, if say, I was some dyed in the wool western liberal.

                      Your arguments have nothing whatsoever to do with an appreciation of, or support for diversity though. To put it simply or bluntly, you’ve lazily embraced ‘vile’. That’s all your ‘take’ amounts to.

                      (And don’t come back with some shit about life being valued differently in the Philippines and how that makes the murder of someones wife, husband, son, mother, father, daughter, brother or sister okay, or somehow lesser, to ‘non-western’ eyes.)

                    • Colonial Viper

                      Sometimes embracing diversity involves a bit more than appreciating foreign takeaway food.

                      Sometimes it means not judging other peoples behaviours, values, standards or sovereignty through superior self righteous anglo-US colonial eyes.

                      To put it simply or bluntly, you’ve lazily embraced ‘vile’.

                      Bluntly put, there isn’t a politician in the Beehive smart enough to have shit show of surviving a month trying to run the Philippines.

                      So yes, we can pontificate, Duterte is morally vile, and I am morally vile for not playing the outrage condemnation game against him, etc.

                      But he carries the burden of constitutional sovereignty on his shoulders, and as far as I can see, he is doing his best to sort out some dire situations facing his country and facing his people.

                    • the pigman

                      Sometimes embracing diversity involves a bit more than appreciating foreign takeaway food.

                      Now that’s a vile strawman.

                      I think you should see someone, CV. Not an osteopath but a psychiatrist. I don’t mean to “mental-illness-shame”, but you’ve gone totally nuts.

                    • Robertina

                      ”Sometimes embracing diversity involves a bit more than appreciating foreign takeaway food.”
                      ”Sometimes it means not judging other peoples behaviours, values, standards or sovereignty through superior self righteous anglo-US colonial eyes.”

                      I have seen some vile comments from CV, but this might be the worst.
                      No wonder CV sneers at concern over fake news on the other thread – CV has rejected the concept of universal values.
                      He’s not critiquing Western hypocrisy, he’s actively sneering at the very idea of aspiring to universal human rights.

            • KJT 17.1.1.1.1.2

              Obama’s drones were a pivot towards Russia, or China?

              • McFlock

                That was thinly disguised as war.

                Trump’s campaign promise of going after the innocent family members of suspected terrorists is a dramatic removal of that thin veil – an escalation that coincides withhis promise of a US/Russian detente…

          • Cinny 17.1.1.1.2

            Not really CV, i think some people are just not into murder, or killing or executions. Everyone is different. Apparently his son had a drug problem and he’s been on the drug dealer killing rampage ever since.

            Nothing to do with Russia or China, in fact aren’t they all in a bit of a pip re the south china sea?

            https://www.rt.com/news/367729-duterte-china-sea-dispute-scarborough/

        • Colonial Viper 17.1.1.2

          “Since Rodrigo Duterte was elected President of the Philippines, in May, more than three thousand people have been killed in a vicious drug war.

          And for reference, that’s much lower than the homicide rate in Chicago.

          • McFlock 17.1.1.2.1

            Indeed.

            But your confusing the entire homicide rate with the rate of killings by police, and perhaps you’d like to cherry-pick the worst region in the philippines to compare with the worst city in the U.

          • greywarshark 17.1.1.2.2

            CV
            One of my relations lived in the Philippines and sent me a photo of the drug agent in the location he was in, she was just ordinary looking and unworried at ‘being captured’ by the camera. It’s such a difficult country to survive in, no public health services where he was, it is very hard to make a living, seems corrupt and the people went for a strong leader with charisma, like Marcos. Wasn’t one politician. who had gone into exile and been invited back as welcome, shot as he came out of the plane?

            The Pres had better watch his own back as the criminal bosses won’t be happy at having their businesses smashed.

    • Bill 17.2

      Did NZ give a shit about Indonesia and Suharto sanctioning the indiscriminate killing of (at least) hundreds of thousands of ‘undesirables’ by gangs of thugs? No.

      As an aside. The recent (2012) documentary “Act of Killing” provides a chilling as fuck picture of Indonesia and is well worth hunting down.

      Will NZ give a shit about Duterte embarking on the same path? No.

    • Muttonbird 17.3

      Perhaps he was here to check on his trust accounts.

  16. Sanctuary 18

    Extra judicial murder is just murder, even if it is authorised by some nutjob strongman. Anyone who allows free reigh to death squads is an international criminal.

    • Colonial Viper 18.1

      Don’t worry too much Sanctuary, pretty sure the CIA already have Duterte on their regime change short list.

      • Puckish Rogue 18.1.1

        No we don’t.

        • McFlock 18.1.1.1

          Really? He’s on my copy of the list: ***/0816.
          Have they updated it since August?

          • Colonial Viper 18.1.1.1.1

            I’m sure new CIA head Rep. Pompeo will sort it.

            • McFlock 18.1.1.1.1.1

              nah. he ain’t in the Deep State.

            • Puckish Rogue 18.1.1.1.1.2

              Meet the (soon) new head of the CIA:

              https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/b/b9/Jack_Bauer.jpg

              • Colonial Viper

                Jack will be the deputy head, drawn from the CIA’s own Clandestine Services section (it’s tradition).

            • adam 18.1.1.1.1.3

              Funny how that one appointment makes all your argument about trump look rather weak C.V.

              That was a corporate pick, through and through. A shrill for the 1%. How you feeling buddy, feel like you just got lied to?

              That your boy trump was just as bad a h.r.c? That your boy trump is indeed, just another tool for the corporate elect?

              Disappointed the sellout was so soon?

              Feel like you were dumped on from a great height?

              I’m guessing I’m going to get to write this same type of thing for years…

              • Colonial Viper

                Funny how that one appointment makes all your argument about trump look rather weak C.V.

                Which argument?

                Can you be specific?

                That was a corporate pick, through and through. A shrill for the 1%. How you feeling buddy, feel like you just got lied to?

                I believe I know why he picked Pompeo. It will be the same reason that he might pick Gen Mattis for SecDef. However I certainly don’t like Pompeo’s attitude towards Edward Snowden.

                I have already written a note to his transition team mentioning Edward Snowden.

                That your boy trump was just as bad a h.r.c? That your boy trump is indeed, just another tool for the corporate elect?

                Wow, you have really misunderstood what this Trump Administration is trying to do.

                Disappointed the sellout was so soon?

                Listen and learn.

                • McFlock

                  I have already written a note to his transition team mentioning Edward Snowden.

                  Could you use a /sarc tag sometimes?

                  It’s difficult to tell whether you’re taking the piss or have simply disappeared up your own arse into a fantasy land where Trump’s transition team give a shit about your opinions.

                • didn’t learn anything I didn’t already know – pretty boring video really

                • adam

                  CBS – lol. The same CBS who did a live interview with ‘a man on the street’ who was a ex employee.

                  So you are a shrill for the 1% now C.V?

                  When did that happen?

                  • Colonial Viper

                    well, pick your acceptable news source and let me know, adam.

                    Or maybe it’s just whatever news source is saying things that are acceptable to you on a day.

                    • adam

                      Is that all you got, a “poor me” argument, come on CV you can do better than than. Did you actually watch what you put up? For once I agree with marty mars boring, irrelevant to what I said, and nothing of note.

                      You are now spinning and avoiding questions like the trolls on this sight.

                      As for trump trying to do, he is doing for the 1% exactly what they want, get a grip mate, he ant no savior. Corporate elects say jump, and trumpy boy says ‘how high master’.

                      Toady, is a toady, is a toady.

                      But more importantly, you use to be critical and think things through, not a groupie for the 1%. What happened to that CV?

                    • How about you don’t be so mean to cv eh adam? who do you think you are berating him like that, insulting him with bad language and so on… just kidding – eye for an eye and all that 🙂

                    • Colonial Viper

                      Hi Adam, sorry that you are so blinded by hate. A pity.

                      You say that I have lost my analysis skills yet you throw around silly labels, insults, and childish ad homs.

                      Why do you think your questions are so important? You cannot see the brilliant political strategies that the nascent Trump administration is now structuring and playing out. You are looking in the wrong direction, making poor biased assumptions that Trump is some kind of “toady” (to whom? The billionaire class? Vladimir Putin?).

                      But if Trump succeeds the Republican Party will absorb the bulk of both African American and Latino working class voters, who will join the white working class voters they took from right under the nose of the Democrats.

                      My bet: like NZ Labour, the US Democratic Party will now structurally and culturally prove itself unable to change and renew.

                    • Colonial Viper

                      who do you think you are berating him like that, insulting him with bad language and so on… just kidding – eye for an eye and all that

                      Marty Mars – huh? I have not used any bad language to insult adam with. I have received plenty of nasty lefty bullyshaming from people like you though.

                    • I was talking about adam telling me off for being rude to you. Funny how you think everything revolves around you isn’t it?

                      anyway adam had some pretty good points in his comment – the truth will set him free…

                    • adam

                      Blinded by hate, so funny. You in the realm of desperation there mate.

                      As is you call that trump was brilliant, I agree with bill on that – you are in lala land on that one. h.r.c was the worst person the democrat’s could have put up, and it was proven to be correct. She made the lesser of two evils look about as evil as it got. As per you call on the black and latino vote. The black vote collapsed, and the republicans have made sure of that – Oh wait they also leaders in excluding people from voting, and that list is dominated by black Americans. Wow so you are saying the racist policies of the republicans in brilliant, dude I think you need to do some soul searching.

                      My original point still stands, that trumps appointment to the director of the CIA is a corporate shrill, and a fan boy for the corporate elects, and all your deflections and spin don’t stop that fact.

                      Sorry your so full of hate and projecting it on others CV. My comments are nothing different from were I have stood all along, you however have fallen for a demagogy, which is a shame, I thought you were one person who thought for yourself.

  17. joe90 19

    FOX 10 Phoenix YouTube channel live-streaming NHK World Tsunami feed

  18. The Chairman 20

    Are the Greens moving closer to the centre?

    Their rehashed Home For Life policy would suggest so.
    https://www.greens.org.nz/home-for-life

    • Siobhan 20.1

      According to Stuff “It’s a reaffirmation of the party’s 2014 election promise, with an expansion to provide community housing providers with low-interest loans to build more homes.”. I would be very interested to know if that’s an accurate assessment.

      And their ‘Memorandum of Understanding’ with Labour would exclude any dramatic steps to the Left, though in the context of Labour’s Policies, whatever they may be, the Greens “Residential Tenancies Bill” seems like some sort of Marxist Revolution.

      “Currently, New Zealand renters with periodic tenancies can, legally,
      face rent increases every six months; ”

      https://www.greens.org.nz/sites/default/files/Residential%20Tenancies%20Safe%20and%20Secure%20Rentals%20Am.pdf

      We’re a backwards, mean spirited little country in some very surprising ways.

  19. adam 21

    Well this is getting worse. Not that it was not out of hand anyway. Police get more brutal in North Dakota,

    • Garibaldi 21.1

      The good old US of A.
      Land of the Free.
      Just note that all of this is under Obama – you know the one – the Nobel Peace Prize winner. Just another example of the bullshit democracy the rest of the world is supposed to bow down to ….or else.
      When will everyone wake up to what The USA has become ?
      Trump’s regime will accelerate America’s decline into greater aggressive, violent autocracy for the rest of the world to see, and, hopefully, reject.

  20. b waghorn 22

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/farming/86717226/gabe-browns-five-keys-to-soil-health

    No cultivation and next to no inputs and he’s producing more than his peers

  21. The Chairman 23

    Are Civil defence sure there is no tsunami threat to New Zealand following 7.3M Honshu Japan earthquake?

    • Colonial Viper 23.1

      I’m sure they are monitoring the tidal swells at our Pacific neighbours on the path to NZ.

  22. greywarshark 24

    Weka
    Am I right that Open Mike does not get saved to archives (being too diverse to be categorised)?

    If so could from 11 which I think was Draco which has all been about the Japanese nuclear problem, be uplifted to another dedicated post say Update from Fukushima, because this is an ongoing situation that is worsening and it would be good to have details of it and commenters be able to follow it from such a site. Don’t know if that can be done. But would be good.

    I see that the latest info which has gone onto the site today says that much of the marine life in the northern hemisphere part of the Pacific has been contaminated with radioactivity. We need to keep a running record of prognosis I think.

    • Cinny 24.1

      Yes please that would be super helpful

    • Andre 24.2

      You may want to have a read of this.

      http://www.beachapedia.org/Radiation_From_Fukushima

      In short, radiation from Fukushima is detectable all over the Pacific. But the levels are not much above background levels, and those background levels have been falling dramatically since the 60s when people stopped atmospheric testing of nukes. Scientists are really interested in detecting that radiation because it tells them about migration patterns of different species, not because they’re hazardous.

      It’s only a small area directly around Fukushima that remains hazardous. Fish that tend to stay in one area can build up hazardous concentrations, so the fisheries nearby remain closed. But migratory fish are very unlikely to stay in the area long enough to become hazardous. Particularly in comparison to some of the other pollution hazards around Japan, such as mercury.

  23. greywarshark 25

    Hi mod
    I have a few of my comments locked away in the cupboard. If you could let them out soon when you have time I appreciate, it would be appreciated.

    [Dunno why your comments are regularly wind up in pending. Been noticing it for a while now.] – Bill

    • lprent 25.1

      Just sent you a email changed password. Try logging in 🙂

      You can change your profile name from the dashboard (after you login in) by clicking your old handle at the top right, Edit your profile, change the nickname, and the select that as the display name, and save at the bottom of the screen.

      Anyone else need their password reset?

  24. Sanctuary 26

    “… that the Americans killed 200,000 Filipino civilians when the US airforce firebombed Manila in order to attack the Japanese…”

    This is bit like claiming the Allies “massacred” 68,000 French citizens in bombing during WW2. it is a twisted lie.

    CV, you are a liar. You twist the truth to serve yourself, relying on other peoples lack of knowledge to lie about history and to warp the views of others. No wonder you’ve joined in rejoicing the arseholes and liars who Trump is appointing to senior positions. Truth free politics needs lies to sustain it..

    First of all, the United States did not “firebomb” Manila for fun. Maybe in your Breitbart world, but not in the fact based real world. The Japanese commander in the Philippines, General Tomoyuki Yamashita, ordered Manila evacuated as indefensible. 14,000 Japanese troops not only ignored this order, but also decided to indulge in a completely brutal and unhinged massacre of the civilian population in retaliation for, well, being pissed off at losing the war. The Imperial Japanese army troops in Manila not only chose to ignore withdraw orders and to freely massacre tens and tens of thousands of the local population FOR ABSOLUTELY NO MILITARY REASON, the also chose to mount a completely pointless suicidal last stand against the Americans which they knew would be extremely costly in civilian lives – that was the point of their defense, to kill and be killed for no reason other than their ridiculous adherence to the barbarity of their military code.

    The US Army killed many civilians in freeing Manila from the Japanese. But all those deaths were persuant to a clear military goal, the freeing of Manila from the Japanese, and because the Japanese deliberately chose to fight in a city for that reason.

    The only people responsible for the lives lost in Manila were the soldiers of the empire of Japan, whose barbarism should NEVER be excused.

    You frankly physically disgust me. You are one of a select handful of people I’d happily punch in the face.

    • One Anonymous Bloke 26.1

      I’d hold him down, but why smash a stenographer? Resist fascism at the source.

    • One Two 26.2

      “…I’d happily punch in the face…”

      Seems you have some inward reflection and analysis to do, Sanctuary

      Work on it until that “select handful” no longer exists in your being…

      And then continue with the personal growth…

      Same message to OAB, for suggesting involvement in physical abuse and violence

    • Colonial Viper 26.3

      Sanctuary you do make me laugh. Relaying history as written by Anglo-US historians as if it is the correct way of looking at the world.

      Boiling down your Anglo-US-centric bullshit we get this about WWII in the Philippines:

      – The evil Japanese were the cruel villains.
      – The Filipinos were the poor victims.
      – The Americans were the valiant and well meaning, though imperfect, rescuers.

      Sorry, mate but I think the Filipino President has a very different perspective than this. Basically, if the Americans hadn’t originally based themselves and their occupation in the Philippines, neither the Japanese nor the American forces would have wrecked such havoc upon the civilian population:

      • marty mars 26.3.1

        somehow the fact that you don’t think you are a western middle class 10% cv is very very funny to me. And where do you get your history from – do you speak russian?

      • In Vino 26.3.2

        True. It has also been argued that the US invasion of the Philippines was a criminal waste of lives. The Americans had island-hopped all the way up to there, leaving irrelevant and isolated Japanese forces to rot in their wake. There was no need to take the Philippines – they could have hopped on to Iwo Jima/Okinawa without disturbing the lost Japanese forces in the Philippines.

        All because of McArthur’s ego (He promised, “I will return.”) the option of bypassing the useless Philippines (in terms of approaching Japan) was discarded, and the ensuing bloodbath occurred. All because McArthur felt obliged to keep his ostentatious promise.

        The Americans should have left the Japanese forces in the Philippines to sit idle and surrender along with the rest after the two atom bombs.

        Who knows what the Philippinos themselves think? Including Duerte.

        • Colonial Viper 26.3.2.1

          Thanks for a different perspective In Vino.

          AFAIK most Filipinos regard the US as a great cultural friend that they closely identify with. (It can also be argued that Filipinos don’t speak English so much as they speak American).

          Duterte on the other hand appears up to speed with the history of mass trauma that the USA has caused to the people of the Philippines from the late 1800s onwards.

    • greywarshark 26.4

      Sanctuary
      I lift one of your comments – that the killing of large numbers of people in a war was not for fun. Then I suggest that the killing or deaths of large numbers of people in what is presented as a war against drugs is not for fun either.

  25. Cinny 27

    This is concerning, “Giant insurer IAG is considering sending New Zealand jobs overseas next year. IAG owns the State, AMI and NZI brands.
    Other jobs could be lost to automation, the Australian listed company said.”

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/86725204/giant-insurer-iag-could-cull-jobs-in-new-zealand

    Don’t worry peoples.. Grant Robertson brilliant mind he is, has already made plans to deal with future automated services taking over from humans.

    Does the outgoing government have plans for mass automation, and what it will do to our workforce? Pretty sure they haven’t, silly silly party if they haven’t, can’t find anything on the google.

    Thanks Alpha (that’s Alpha Andy), Grant and the Labour Party for your Future of Work Commission, forward thinking and planning, wonderful ideas.
    http://www.futureofwork.nz/

    • Bill 27.1

      Automated services won’t make your home or any of the vast array of infrastructure you rely on resistant to likely temperature increases. Bit of an elephant in the room is that one.

      One of the other ones is that neither will IAG, AMI, NZI, or any other service industry predicated on a functioning, globally integrated economy.

      There’s a veritable herd of the fuckers (elephants) milling all across sandy horizons, the prominent feature of which is an endless vista of arses pointing skywards.

      • Cinny 27.1.1

        Hey Bill did you hear about the businesses and people coming out about climate change? Good on them I say, they want the government to do more. Interestingly enough Sanford was one of the signatories.

        http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/national/318633/open-letter-demands-climate-action-from-nz-govt

        I don’t want to have a vista of arses pointing skywards. Will vote left to prevent that kind of view. Left is best. I’m still in shock that Paula is climate change minister, makes me shake my head everytime I think about it.

        • SpaceMonkey 27.1.1.1

          Sanford. Doesn’t surprise me at all… climate change is THE existential threat to their business.

      • SpaceMonkey 27.1.2

        It’s a stressful time in the insurance industry at the moment. A low interest rate economy affects their ability to hedge risk cost effectively, and cuts into their profits. They will be looking everywhere and anywhere to be making savings.

        It is futile. Climate change is going to steamroll them into oblivion.

    • The Chairman 27.2

      Time for ‘KiwiSure’

      Which New Zealand First has already pledged to deliver.

      http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/PA1611/S00426/paying-the-price-for-sale-of-state-insurance.htm

    • The Chairman 27.3

      Are Labour still committed to setting up KiwiAssure?

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