Open mike 23/05/2024

93 comments on “Open mike 23/05/2024 ”

• Comment on post

1. Jimmy 1

   23 May 2024 at 7:31 am

   Can we please have just one Green MP that can control themselves (like an adult), that does not require to either go on a course of "de-escalation", or need help for mental health issues and the leaders do not have to apologise for their actions.

   NZ politics live: Green MP unleashes f-bomb in Parliament | Stuff

   Reply
   • Bearded Git 1.1

     23 May 2024 at 8:17 am

     Another MSM beat-up Jimmy; they must be really worried about the polls.

     The Greens are on 12% so must be doing something right on things like policies, which the MSM seems less interested in.

     Reply
     • James Simpson 1.1.1

       23 May 2024 at 1:55 pm

       12% isn't great.

       They need to get into the 20s if they want to influence the policy direction of the next government.

       Reply
       • Drowsy M. Kram 1.1.1.1

         23 May 2024 at 3:42 pm

         They need to get into the 20s if they want to influence the policy direction of the next government.

         The Greens achieved their best election result (15 seats, including three electorate seats) last year.

         They’ve never been above 12% of the party vote, and yet have had some influence on govt policy direction in some areas. Just my opinion – like all political parties and politicians, they will continue to fall short on occasion, but remain my favorite NZ political party, in part for their longer-term focus in selected areas of concern.

         NZ’s Green Party is ‘filling the void on the left’ as voters grow frustrated with Labour’s centrist shift [27 Sept 2023]

         Policy success

         If getting the policy architecture in place to facilitate implementation is one measure of political success, then the Greens have achieved credible action on many fronts.

         Getting the 2019 Zero Carbon Act across the line with cross-party support, with the subsequent setting up of the Climate Change Commission, was certainly a success. So were the ban on new oil and gas exploration and the establishment of Ara Ake, the “future energy centre” in New Plymouth.

         Reply
         • James Simpson 1.1.1.1.1

           23 May 2024 at 3:57 pm

           Exactly.

           If they want to move past the status of a party that props up Labour governments, then they need to exceed their 2023 result – by a large margin.

           Every minor party will have policy wins. Look at NZF and Act at the moment.

           But we want a Green Party that dominates a government.

           Reply
           • Bearded Git 1.1.1.1.1.1

             23 May 2024 at 5:55 pm

             Agreed James….but the establishment doesn't want this and will do anything to portray the Greens as a disorganised rabble.

             As a Green voter for many years, I used to dream of them holding steady at 12-13 per cent. But every CC event/disaster now adds a fraction to their vote so 20 per cent is no longer a dream..

             Reply
   • Kay 1.2

     23 May 2024 at 8:36 am

     Oh I don't know… it's a rare thing as a voter to feel like my views and attitudes are being represented by my representative.

     Reply
   • Patricia Bremner 1.3

     23 May 2024 at 9:46 am

     Jimmy we get that you have no time for the left, as your past posts are mainly whinges.

     Reply
   • Res Publica 1.4

     23 May 2024 at 11:10 am

     On one hand, I've never liked Riccardo Mendez-March and found him, in general, to be a political liability for the Greens.

     On the other, dropping an f-bomb in Parliament is objectively hilarious and awesome.

     Reply
     • weka 1.4.1

       23 May 2024 at 11:38 am

       I don't care if someone says fuck in the House (the Speaker can deal with any issues around that). He didn't direct it at anyone or use it as a term of abuse.

       The problem I have is the lack of discipline that leads to yet another round of MSM negative attention on the Greens. Maybe they're getting it all out of the way this year.

       Reply
       • Bearded Git 1.4.1.1

         23 May 2024 at 3:07 pm

         Marama was just on RadioNZ news saying that all the parties swear every day in parliament.

         RadioNZ introduced her comment by saying that the Greens admit that their members swear in parliament every day. WTF?

         Reply
         • SPC 1.4.1.1.1

           23 May 2024 at 3:10 pm

           Most of it being while the person is not addressing the House.

           Reply
         • weka 1.4.1.1.2

           23 May 2024 at 3:36 pm

           In the House?

           Reply
   • Mike the Lefty 1.5

     23 May 2024 at 11:10 am

     At the same time could we please have a National MP that can do basic maths and not forget to carry the 1?

     They need your help badly Jimmy, go tiger!

     Reply
   • bwaghorn 1.6

     23 May 2024 at 11:37 am

     Fuck !!!really that's fucking disgusting , sack the fucker immediately!!!

     Reply
   • That_guy 1.7

     23 May 2024 at 11:57 am

     I get what you are saying and I share your frustration.

     That said, JAG is guilty of aggressively waving some documents in a bloke's face while simultaneously committing the sin of being totally correct about what they were actually arguing about.

     RMM said a potty word.

     On the other hand the government is blatantly corrupt, is dismantling everything Labour does often for no other reason than because Labour did it.

     Let's keep this in fucking perspective.

     Reply
     • Bearded Git 1.7.1

       23 May 2024 at 5:58 pm

       +100 that guy

       Reply
   • gsays 1.8

     23 May 2024 at 12:15 pm

     Can we plz have concern trolls that out up a better example

     Of far greater concern to 'us' is an MP that 'overlooked' 10s of thousands of dollars of bribes donations while chairing a committee that met his donor's interests, in my opinion.

     Reply
     • Incognito 1.8.1

       23 May 2024 at 12:27 pm

       Sometimes, it’s a fine line between a concern troll and a useful idiot and Jimmy’s obviously having an identity crisis and cannot choose. Going forward, this is important because some Mods here struggle to tell the difference.

       Reply
       • bwaghorn 1.8.1.1

         23 May 2024 at 2:21 pm

         If only you knew how often I have to put my hands in my pockets clench my jaw and walk past jimmys efforts so as to not upset you mods , you'd put me up for a saint hood.

         Reply
         • Incognito 1.8.1.1.1

           23 May 2024 at 3:04 pm

           I/we didn’t know because when you put your hands in your pocket you cannot type a comment for TS. But I/we admire and appreciate your fortitude.

           Reply
2. weka 2

   23 May 2024 at 7:57 am

   Tories have called an early election in the UK, early July. Tories currently trailing 20 points in polls.

   https://amp.theguardian.com/politics/article/2024/may/22/rishi-sunak-will-call-general-election-for-july-in-surprise-move-sources

   edited to correct who is trailing in the polls.

   Reply
   • Kay 2.1

     23 May 2024 at 8:14 am

     Concurrently, the outcome of the most sadistic policies implemented by the Tories is finally getting a proper inquiry. Policies that were heavily influencing the last Nat government, and would likely have been implemented had they secured a 4th term.

     https://www.theguardian.com/society/article/2024/may/22/inquiry-to-begin-into-dwps-treatment-of-ill-and-disabled-people-on-benefits

     Reply
     • Patricia Bremner 2.1.1

       23 May 2024 at 9:50 am

       Yes Kay, the true doco of "Mr Bates against the Post Office", gives a view of their punishing lying use of power.

       Reply
       • alwyn 2.1.1.1

         23 May 2024 at 6:05 pm

         You may like to check the timeline of the scandal before you get all unhappy with the Conservative Party.

         The product was installed in 1999 and the prosecutions started almost immediately and ran until 2015.

         There was a Labour Government there from 1997 until 2010. The system went in and the prosecutions were largely during their reign. The Conservative Party were certainly culpable for the slowness in cleaning it up but even you would agree that the real blame for it happening was Labour's?

         Wouldn't you?

         Reply
         • Traveller 2.1.1.1.1

           23 May 2024 at 6:14 pm

           And the MP who campaigned for justice for the postmasters was James Arbuthnot (played by Alex Jennings in the recreation), who (inconveniently for Patricia) is a Conservative.

           Reply
   • aj 2.2

     23 May 2024 at 8:29 am

     Don't frighten me. Tories trailing by 20 points

     Reply
     • weka 2.2.1

       23 May 2024 at 9:10 am

       god, sorry. That will teach me for posting too early in the morning. Editing the commentnow.

       Reply
3. PsyclingLeft.Always 3

   23 May 2024 at 8:34 am

   Christchurch homeowner's house featured in social housing post

   Beth said a blunder like this from the National Party was unacceptable

   "If you are going to build 1500 social housing houses, then I think maybe you should have a better idea of what exactly it is you are going to be building, rather than taking an image from somewhere. Who knows how they got the image of our houses, and posting it up as something that is blatantly not true," she said

   https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/517548/christchurch-homeowner-s-house-featured-in-social-housing-post

   Just clueless fwits. So fixated on their "vision" (which will be dire for the majority of NZ), that they blithely/blindly roll on, and over, all.

   Reply
   • ianmac 3.1

     23 May 2024 at 10:10 am

     Again the use of "House" as opposed to "Places." Bishop and Luxon being naughty?

     Reply
     • PsyclingLeft.Always 3.1.1

       23 May 2024 at 1:10 pm

       Well…..thats a given. Stretttching the bounds is nothing new.

       Reply
   • SPC 3.2

     23 May 2024 at 12:21 pm

     Allocating $140M for 1500 houses is $100,000 per house. Sounds like a bedsit inside social housing provider building.

     Reply
     • PsyclingLeft.Always 3.2.1

       23 May 2024 at 1:29 pm

       Yep. It'll be "NO frills" . After all, they are the New Victorians , who Charles Dickens would recognise as such . The phrase "Nothing so cold as Charity" will assume extra meaning in NZ under NActFirst.

       Reply
       • bwaghorn 3.2.1.1

         23 May 2024 at 2:22 pm

         Na itlll be nothing, just a convenient lie from national .

         Reply
4. Sanctuary 4

   23 May 2024 at 8:58 am

   Well well, well. Sunak has called a probably catastrophic early election early because the knives were out for him on the back benches. The Tories are committing seppuku – they are utterly spent, pre-occupied with interminable infighting to the extent Sunak has called a July election as an act of spite against his internal enemies and still get to California in time to see his kids into school for the new term.

   Meanwhile, I see Adrian Orr has written the death note for this government – it is going to be a one term wonder because we are now looking at a three year recession. Richard Harman at Politik – the uber centrist purveyor of received wisdom – is busy peddling the line that this is all the result of Labour's COVID spending so the govt might get away with it, but the thing is Luxon wasn't elected to fix the economy via Osbornian austerity. he was elected to do something about the squeezed middle class and the cost of living crisis. He can't and anyway doesn't want to deliver on that promise so they will be toast.

   Reply
   • Nic the NZer 4.1

     23 May 2024 at 9:19 am

     Everybody knows austerity in the face of a recession leads to double (if not the Osborne tripple) dipping the recession. The conclusion should be that, yes, Luxon was elected on the promise to carry that out.

     Reply
   • Morrissey 4.2

     23 May 2024 at 9:24 am

     Sadly, the political situation in Great Britain is almost identical to the U.S.: a choice between two unconscionable options.

     There are, of course, a few decent and honourable politicians, like George Galloway, whose recent return to parliament drove both major party leaders into displays of Blimpish outrage.

     And there is Andrew Feinstein, who is trying to unseat Keir Starmer,,,

     https://x.com/DoubleDownNews/status/1792858765600899124

     Reply
   • Anne 4.3

     23 May 2024 at 10:58 am

     Rishi Sunak doing a 1984 Muldoon. It didn't go too well for Muldoon.

     Some things never change. Its a case of… if I'm going to go down in smoke, I'll make sure the rest of you come down with me. 😉

     Reply
   • Bearded Git 4.4

     23 May 2024 at 11:20 am

     Over 200 Conservative MP's that face losing their seats have just seen an easy NZ$95k go up in smoke because Rishi has called the election 6 months early for no good reason. (A backbencher earns NZ$190k a year).

     Shame. (sarc)

     Reply
     • alwyn 4.4.1

       23 May 2024 at 6:10 pm

       They should have listened to Hipkins.

       He hung on the just about the last legal moment before recognising that his Government was dead and smelling rather a lot. Still, he got all his losing MPs a pay packet for as long as he could. Too bad for New Zealand of course.

       Reply
       • bwaghorn 4.4.1.1

         23 May 2024 at 6:17 pm

         I'm gonna bet you a chocolate fish this mob if bandits in government in nz will go to the polls early .

         Reply
         • alwyn 4.4.1.1.1

           23 May 2024 at 6:28 pm

           Why on earth would they?

           I used to know one-time PM Jack Marshall. He was a member of a Government which went to the polls after 2 years, not 3, over the waterfront issue in 1951.

           He said, when asked, that the only effect in the long term was that they served for 8 years, 1949 – 1957, instead of 9 for 3 full terms from 1949 to 1958. That was the only effect.

           Why should anyone hold an early election, whether the are likely to win it, or lose it?

           Reply
           • bwaghorn 4.4.1.1.1.1

             23 May 2024 at 8:48 pm

             Coalition collapse

             Reply
   • SPC 4.5

     23 May 2024 at 12:26 pm

     I note that Harmon does not link to the RBG statement ….

     https://www.politik.co.nz/orrs-warning-three-years-of-austerity/

     https://www.stuff.co.nz/money/350286984/home-loan-cuts-story-next-year

     Reply
5. Adrian 5

   23 May 2024 at 9:20 am

   I read that Harman comment and thought that was a bit rich, blaming it all on Covid when some of the bank commentators are unsettled by the whole tax cut scenario and the expectation that it is more likely to fuel domestic inflation, the very thing the RBNZ is trying to curb.
   Exactly Nic, the Luxonites are the most likely beneficiaries of austerity, another 10% on the weekly shop means bugger all when there’s a nice multi million dollar pillow to lay one’s head on after a hard days rorting.
   The local problem is Greedflation and that’s a real bastard to control.

   Reply
   • Incognito 5.1

     23 May 2024 at 9:34 am

     What “Harman comment” and where??

     A link would be good.

     Reply
6. Visubversa 6

   23 May 2024 at 10:23 am

   Relevant to what was discussed here a couple of days ago. Well referenced and supported.

   Risk of Suicide and Self-Harm Following Gender-Affirmation Surgery

   https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/38699117/

   Just in case anyone is still running the lines about "would you rather have a live daughter or a dead son?"

   "Individuals who underwent gender-affirming surgery had a 12.12-fold higher suicide attempt risk than those who did not (3.47% vs. 0.29%, RR 95% CI 9.20-15.96, p < 0.0001). Compared to the tubal ligation/vasectomy controls, the risk was 5.03-fold higher before propensity matching and remained significant at 4.71-fold after matching (3.50% vs. 0.74%, RR 95% CI 2.46-9.024, p < 0.0001) for the gender affirmation patients with similar results with the pharyngitis controls. Conclusion Gender-affirming surgery is significantly associated with elevated suicide attempt risks, underlining the necessity for comprehensive post-procedure psychiatric support."

   Reply
   • Psych Nurse 6.1

     23 May 2024 at 11:39 am

     FFS you cannot compare the risks of self harm and suicide post Gender-Affirming surgery to longterm contraception or a sore throat[ pharyngitis].

     The self harm and suicidality exists before the surgery, do people not realize that most Gender Affirmation is not male to female but female to male. The surgery is but another form of bodily self harm as part of complex Borderline Personality Disorders.

     Reply
     • weka 6.1.1

       23 May 2024 at 11:44 am

       please don't put your email address in the URL field, it displays it publicly. You can leave the URL field blank.

       Reply
       • Psych Nurse 6.1.1.1

         23 May 2024 at 8:22 pm

         sorry autofill

         Reply
     • tWig 6.1.2

       23 May 2024 at 12:55 pm

       Actually, the critical group NOT included in the study is the incidence of suicide in transgender patients who do NOT undergo affirmation surgery. If affirmation surgery decreases the incidence of suicide in trans people, then gender-affirming surgery has a positive effect overall. I don't understand why an emergency visit was included in the study. Perhaps, without the emergency visit, the stats don't look so good.

       "The study involved four cohorts: cohort A, adults aged 18-60 who had gender-affirming surgery and an emergency visit (N = 1,501); cohort B, control group of adults with emergency visits but no gender-affirming surgery (N = 15,608,363); and cohort C, control group of adults with emergency visits, tubal ligation or vasectomy, but no gender-affirming surgery (N = 142,093). Propensity matching was applied to cohorts A and C."

       Reply
   • That_guy 6.2

     23 May 2024 at 12:08 pm

     It's risky

     It's irreversible (no, you cannot replace a healthy breast with an implant, you can't un-invert a penis, and you can't take skin from a neophallus and put it back on a shucked forearm, sorry if anyone loses their lunch, but this is reality)

     It's performed (unless you are rich) by inexperienced surgeons, because this is what happens when the demand for a type of surgery suddenly outstrips the number of competent and experienced surgeons

     It will (at a minimum) make sex awkward and may make it impossible and painful, and previous use of puberty blockers are likely to make orgasm impossible, for the rest of the patient's life.

     And it's all in pursuit of an impossible goal, because men are not women and you can't stop people accurately sexing you, in the same way that you can't stop yourself from determining which way is up and which way is down.

     Of course people with SDPS (Sexual Dysfunction Producing Surgery) are getting down. They are victims, they are vulnerable, they have been promised a lie by people claiming expertise and authority, and when reality hits (usually in the mid-twenties) it's too late.

     Reply
     • weka 6.2.1

       23 May 2024 at 12:29 pm

       It's performed (unless you are rich) by inexperienced surgeons, because this is what happens when the demand for a type of surgery suddenly outstrips the number of competent and experienced surgeons

       That, and the Dr Frankenstein surgeons.

       Reply
       • Hanswurst 6.2.1.1

         24 May 2024 at 2:49 am

         Seriously? We're at that level of name-calling now?

         Reply
         • weka 6.2.1.1.1

           24 May 2024 at 9:31 am

           Let me rephrase then.

           That, and the surgeons who are doing experimental surgeries on the genitals of teenagers, without informed consent, often botching them, not really knowing how to fix that, leaving young people to face a lifetime of pain and regret, and doing that because they love the cutting edge of transhumanism.

           Is that better?

           #notallSRSsurgeons obviously. But we don't know how many eh, which is the point. Fuck No Debate.

           Reply
         • weka 6.2.1.1.2

           24 May 2024 at 9:39 am

           a couple of receipts from things I've seen recently.

           Detrans man, Ritchie Heron's thread from today,

           https://x.com/TullipR/status/1793660665426850225

           The surgeon who did experimental cross genital surgery on Jazz Jennings at age 17,

           https://x.com/TTExulansic/status/1792304132277317974

           Reply
7. bwaghorn 7

   23 May 2024 at 11:51 am

   https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2024/05/housing-minister-chris-bishop-admits-government-scrapping-first-home-grants-unpopular-will-cause-some-pain.html

   True to form national are proved to be dishonest, they attacked labour for not going far enough with first home grants, I even believe they said they wouldn't cut the grants, but here we are.

   Reply
   • tc 7.1

     23 May 2024 at 12:55 pm

     Lets see if any of the media sock puppets take this up with our ex tobacco lobbyist housing minister.

     Im sure he will have a response ready as hes skilled in these matters.

     Reply
     • riffer 7.1.1

       23 May 2024 at 3:16 pm

       I thought they did yesterday and his smirky response was "that was then, this is now".

       Reply
       • tc 7.1.1.1

         23 May 2024 at 11:18 pm

         A please explain wouldn't hurt so bishop can dig himself in or surprise us all with an intelligent response.

         Reply
8. SPC 8

   23 May 2024 at 12:48 pm

   I am not surprised by the RBG take.

   Sure imported inflation was coming down and the impact of the weather events of early 2023 have gone – so we were going to get to 3% by the end of the year.

   Many presumed therefore that the 5.5% OCR had done its jobs and it would go down – this year even.

   This was never likely. So for them a shot across the bows.

   This is because domestic inflation will hold the rate at 3% through 2025 and beyond – rates (infrastructure) and insurance (adjusting for impact on infrastructure of GW) are going up year by year at rates not seen before AND loss of (construction) workers to Oz (seeking secure jobs and better wages) increasing costs.

   Chickens coming home to roost – economic growth via migrant labour inflow population increase decreases productivity (we needed investment in more efficient use of resources) and it increases infrastructure cost.

   It does expose a limitation in the OCR approach – the lower imported inflation would allow a lower dollar (improved returns to exporters), if there was an alternative mechanism for internal inflation management.

   Such as a reduction of the OCR to 5% and the impost of a mortgage surcharge (0.25%, then 0.5%) – the government surely needs the money.

   More money paid in rent – less GST spending. Less tax off rent income (landlords giveaway). No rise in wages (25 cents an hour MW no FPA etc). Will company tax make up the shortfall …

   That all said, Zollner may be right, in correcting the misplaced optimisim of a fall from the 5.5% level – a fall is still likely

   https://www.politik.co.nz/orrs-warning-three-years-of-austerity/

   https://www.stuff.co.nz/money/350286984/home-loan-cuts-story-next-year

   Reply
   • SPC 8.1

     23 May 2024 at 1:02 pm

     That all said, Zollner may be right, in correcting the misplaced optimism of a (n early) fall from the 5.5% level – (so banks do not rush cuts), a fall is still likely (albeit in the latter half of 2025, than the first half – as even the wiser ones thought a few months ago).

     Reply
     • Bearded Git 8.1.1

       24 May 2024 at 4:55 pm

       I remember paying 18% on a commercial loan in 1990 ….5.5% doesn't sound so bad.

       Reply
9. SPC 9

   23 May 2024 at 2:29 pm

   Tony Alexander looks at the economy and rides his horse away from the elephant.

   https://www.oneroof.co.nz/news/tony-alexander-in-the-most-dangerous-part-of-the-cycle-time-to-call-it-quits-45557

   Reply
   • bwaghorn 9.1

     23 May 2024 at 2:48 pm

     Yet more proof that we need to reinvent how we tackle inflation .

     Reply
     • SPC 9.1.1

       23 May 2024 at 3:05 pm

       Yeah the, don't feed the Damien Grant's of this world, warning is chilling.

       Reply
10. SPC 10

    23 May 2024 at 2:42 pm

    Sir Ian Taylor wants a smart investment plan, rather than keeping doors open to the old industry economy.

    Re-wiring the nation (so extra power is not more expensive) from the farm up.

    Geothermal

    Bio-forestry

    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/opinion-a-letter-to-shane-jones-sir-ian-taylor/MBOYHVJWEZAFNN5N5YW3R5XKNU/

    https://archive.li/aHb2M

    Reply
11. SPC 11

    23 May 2024 at 3:12 pm

    Sign of the times – Auckland inner city police have to focus on daylight robbery of food.

    This is what happens when population increases by 2.9%, but economic growth is 0.6%

    https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/new-zealand/2024/05/alleged-whittaker-s-chocolate-thief-chased-through-auckland-cbd-as-police-crack-down-on-retail-crime-hundreds-of-charges-laid.html

    Reply
12. SPC 12

    23 May 2024 at 3:42 pm

    Currently, minerals generate export earnings of $1 billion annually, $21 million in royalties and more than 5000 direct jobs for New Zealanders, Jones said. He wants to double export value to $2 billion by 2035 and provide more than 7000 jobs.

    I presume the environmental cost met by government is far higher than the risible amount of royalties received.

    https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2024/05/resources-minister-shane-jones-announces-plan-to-double-export-earnings-from-mining-says-industry-is-back-in-business.html

    The growth in mining royalties is from $6.5M in 2010.

    So we get stuff all from the gold then ..

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/3502112/6-5m-royalties-from-mining-the-cherry-on-the-top

    Reply
    • SPC 12.1

      23 May 2024 at 3:57 pm

      Simon Court – an ACT MP – thinks if we drill for oil here we get cheaper energy – we do not refine the oil, it would have to go overseas and be refined there and sent back – it would be no cheaper to us than the world market rate.

      https://www.1news.co.nz/2024/05/23/mining-back-in-business-with-plan-to-double-export-value-govt/

      Reply
13. SPC 13

    23 May 2024 at 4:04 pm

    Already, 218 MSD staff have taken voluntary redundancy. On Thursday, a new proposal emerged to cut a further 97 existing roles. But the ministry also confirmed that hundreds of staff have left, and not been replaced, since December.

    All up, the ministry on Thursday confirmed that it expected to employ 700 fewer people as a result of the cost cutting measures it was proposing.

    MSD deputy chief executive Nadine Kilmister said the ministry’s hiring freeze, in place since December, had led to 341 fewer people working at the ministry

    The number of staff leaving straight off (to get new jobs asap and the others waiting for the voluntary redundancy option then going) is indicative of people who do not want to be clients. Nor work for a National led government.

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/politics/350287893/ministry-social-development-looks-shed-700-staff

    Reply
    • Traveller 13.1

      23 May 2024 at 4:57 pm

      Workforce Data – Workforce size – Te Kawa Mataaho Public Service Commission

      The number of public sector employees (excluding local government) rose by 65,784 (19%) in just 6 years to 2023.

      The number employed by MSD rose from 6,799 @ June 2017 to 9,077 @ June 2023, an increase of 2,277 or 33%.

      The population of NZ increased by 11% between 2017 and 2023. So, MSD employee numbers rose by a factor 3 over the population growth. I'm surprised it's only 700.

      Reply
      • SPC 13.1.1

        23 May 2024 at 5:12 pm

        Do you do consultant numbers as well?

        What is the comparison from 2017 to 2023?

        Oh, there is stuff you did not mention

        Year-to-date update – six months to December 2023

        In the six months to December 2023, Public Service organisations spent a total of $344.6 million in OPEX and $181.6 million in CAPEX on contractors and consultants, for a total spend of $526.2 million.

        As a share of workforce spend, operating expenditure (OPEX) on contractors and consultants decreased to 9.6% in the first half of 2023/24, the lowest it’s been since measurement began (2018).

        And this

        Public Service contractor and consultant data for the 2017/18 year was the first to be published using our new guidance on how to report contractor and consultant expenditure. Before the new guidance, there was inconsistency in how organisations reported this expenditure.

        And also

        • The Ministry of Social Development (up 271 FTEs, or 3.1%) across a range of service delivery initiatives, including response to the North Island Weather Events of 2023, the joint venture to eliminate family violence and sexual violence, and increasing coordination across the social sector through the establishment of the Social Sector Commissioning Hub, as well as supporting delivery of MSD’s core services.

        Reply
        • Traveller 13.1.1.1

          23 May 2024 at 5:40 pm

          From Workforce Data – Workforce size – Te Kawa Mataaho Public Service Commission.

          Total contractor and consultant spend (Opex & Capex) in the year to June 2018 = $900.2m

          Total contractor and consultant spend (Opex & Capex) in the year to June 2023 = $1,268.5m

          An increase in 5 years of 30%.

          What was the point you were trying to make?

          Reply
          • SPC 13.1.1.1.1

            23 May 2024 at 6:09 pm

            1.no useful consultant figures until 2018 (even if only at the aggregate spend)

            2.30% is less than wage increases in the period, so no apparent increase in number of consultants.

            3.the reason for the staff increases in MSD in 2023 was explained.

            4.as a share of workforce spend, operating expenditure (OPEX) on contractors and consultants decreased to 9.6% in the first half of 2023/24, the lowest it’s been since measurement began (2018).

            One wonders if National will continue with this measurable comparison or not – so consultant spend increase is hidden.

            Reply
            • Traveller 13.1.1.1.1.1

              23 May 2024 at 6:17 pm

              1. Relevance? The figures I quoted are based on 2018 onwards because Labour were elected at the end of 2017.
              2. Relevance? It is the increase in spending that matters.
              3. There will always be 'reasons'.
              4. ‘As a share of the workforce’! Have you thought about what you’re saying?
                 The % of spend on c&c’s went down because the workforce went up at such a high rate!

              Reply
              • SPC …

                23 May 2024 at 6:27 pm

                Reposted, read…

                Public Service contractor and consultant data for the 2017/18 year was the first to be published using our new guidance on how to report contractor and consultant expenditure. Before the new guidance, there was inconsistency in how organisations reported this expenditure.

                Not relating cost increase to wage levels or inflation means the figures are without context.

                The reasons – managing help after weather events and to manage down levels of reduce were rather good.

                Under National will the increased cost of consultants to total spending be higher or lower relative to permanent staff number changes?

                Reply
                • Traveller …

                  23 May 2024 at 6:39 pm

                  The employee data is numbers, not $'s, so inflation and wage levels are irrelevant.

                  To your point about consultants and contractors – spending increased 30% in 5 years, well above the rate of population growth AND the rate of inflation over the same period (21.1%).

                  “The reasons – managing help after weather events and to manage down levels of reduce were rather good.”
                  Seriously? A 33% increase in staff to manage weather events? AT MSD?

                  Reply
                  • SPC …

                    23 May 2024 at 7:23 pm

                    3.1% in 2023 for that and other reasons.

                    Wage inflation was higher than 20%, relevance to staffing numbers as that figure is not available for consultants.

                    Reply
                    • Traveller …

                      23 May 2024 at 7:37 pm

                      Wage inflation is irrelevant when comparing employee numbers.

                      Employee numbers went up 19%, when population only rose 11%.

                      Spending on consultants and contractors up 30% over 5 years when inflation only rose 21%.

                      Whichever way you spin this, whichever comparisons you use, the increase in the public sector was out of control.
                    • SPC …

                      23 May 2024 at 7:50 pm

                      Then by your reasoning, the cost of consultants was out of control – being 50% higher than general inflation (even if it only reflected a rising cost of pay to people doing the same work as 5 years earlier).

                      And the measure by which we can determine if National is able to manage out of control consultancy cost.

                      I think this unfair, but if it is the one you will hold National to, I'll not quibble about that.
                    • Traveller …

                      23 May 2024 at 7:57 pm

                      SPC it's you that raised spending on consultants. I was commenting on the growth in the workforce. But yes, spending on consultants rising 30% is out of control. And absolutely I will hold any government to account if the growth in the public sector we've seen in the past 6 years is repeated.
14. SPC 14

    23 May 2024 at 4:23 pm

    Stuff looks at why Ginny Anderson (moving into the role of Louisa Wall – closing a loophole in Harmful Digital Communications Act) has developed a private members bill – hoping to prod the government to do something.

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/nz-news/350281878/its-epidemic-calls-stalking-be-made-illegal-new-zealand

    Reply
    • Anne 14.1

      23 May 2024 at 6:18 pm

      From the link;

      Leonetti believed police needed more training to deal with stalking: I don’t think front line officers, for the most part, know what stalking is or know how harmful it is to victims."

      As the victim of a stalker for a good number of years I can attest to that.

      My stalker kept a close 'eye' on everything I did. There were numerous nuisance phone calls – the silent variety. My home was broken into twice and on one occasion obscene messaging left on a bathroom cabinet door. False accusations to my Public Service bosses surfaced which led to hostility towards me. I eventually had to leave.

      There were numerous bizarre incidents, including mysterious injuries to pets.

      It was all done covertly but I was eventually able to identify the culprit. The motivation was part political and part personal and involved at least one other person.

      The police were hopeless. They had no comprehension of the huge amount of damage it did to me. They…did… not… have… a… clue.

      Reply
      • SPC 14.1.1

        23 May 2024 at 6:35 pm

        In some cases it is done by those who the police would protect, rather than investigate.

        Reply
        • Anne 14.1.1.1

          23 May 2024 at 7:13 pm

          Yes, the thought has crossed my mind.

          Reply
15. bwaghorn 15

    23 May 2024 at 5:18 pm

    https://newsroom.co.nz/2024/05/23/govt-paid-kainga-ora-reviewers-out-of-urgent-housing-fund/

    Double dipton and his "independent "reviewers took up $500 000 out of the emergency housing fund, it'd make me laugh if only I didn't want to swear more.

    Reply
    • bwaghorn 15.1

      23 May 2024 at 5:20 pm

      $63 000 for 26 days, !!!

      10 percent of a first home buyers house, for 26 fucking days , fucking hell

      Reply
    • SPC 15.2

      23 May 2024 at 5:25 pm

      It made Bomber bombastic.

      https://thedailyblog.co.nz/2024/05/22/here-they-come-for-state-housing-how-compromised-is-bill-english/

      Reply
16. SPC 16

    23 May 2024 at 5:28 pm

    Susan St John responds to a Taxpayers Union email – preparing the way for the budget

    https://thedailyblog.co.nz/2024/05/21/will-the-true-debt-figure-please-stand-up/

    Reply
17. SPC 17

    23 May 2024 at 5:31 pm

    Women in Medicine organised a panel discussion – with 3 wise men – to listen at their feet.

    https://thedailyblog.co.nz/2024/05/20/guest-blog-ian-powell-health-system-synthesis-from-time-to-culture-struggle-and-hope/

    Reply
18. Vivie 18

    23 May 2024 at 6:00 pm

    Another Government attack on people with disabilities – this time school-age children. Rather than recognising and accepting that some of their specific needs might be relieved by attending out-of-school daytime programmes, the Government expects the children to comply with a strict routine/regime of school attendance. The full transcript in the following link shows the inflexible, ideological mindset of the Government and their disregard for evidence of beneficial interventions.

    From Question Time today:

    https://www.parliament.nz/en/pb/hansarddebates/rhr/combined/HansDeb_20240523_20240523_24

    "10. Hon PRIYANCA RADHAKRISHNAN (Labour) to the Minister for Disability Issues: Why have disability support funding criteria changed recently to now exclude the use of funding during school hours, and does she accept that many disabled people and children rely on flexible funding to be able to access critical support?

    Hon LOUISE UPSTON (Minister for Disability Issues): ………The recent changes to the purchasing guidelines reflected the Ministry of Disabled People's view that the Ministry of Education is responsible for funding support during school hours. I sympathise with all children and families who may have different support due to the changes and I acknowledge that this may have caused distress. The independent review of disability support funding will be looking into how the whole-of-Government support work together so that disabled people get the essential support they need.

    Hon Priyanca Radhakrishnan: What does she say to the mum whose 11-year-old daughter diagnosed with autism and ADHD and chronic health challenges, who relies on a special one-to-one gymnastic therapy class to help improve her muscle tone and regulate her anxiety levels, will no longer be able to access support because of this new change?

    Hon LOUISE UPSTON: As I said, I sympathise with the impact that any changes may have had. The primary question was about the use of funding during school hours, and our Government recognises the importance of school attendance, so much so that we have set a target to ensure children are attending school—this is all children, and an expectation that all children get the education they deserve.

    Hon Priyanca Radhakrishnan: What does she say to the mum whose 12-year-old son attends Mockingbird, that helps autistic children cope with school and is offered only during school hours……

    Hon LOUISE UPSTON: As I said, I understand how challenging it is for parents. Having navigated the system as a parent of a child who needed additional support at school, I understand how challenging it is. But our Government is committed to ensuring that children are at school during school hours and that education provides a support and assistance while children are at school. It is unfortunate that important services like this are operating during school hours when we actually want children to be in school and get the support for their education at school.

    ……………..

    Hon Priyanca Radhakrishnan: Has the Minister sought confirmation from the education Minister that her Government will fund schools to cover the cost of these programmes now that they can no longer be claimed through disability support funding, and, if not, why not?

    Hon LOUISE UPSTON: As I said, there are different Government agencies that deliver services for disabled people. For disabled school children, the expectation is that they are at school. …..".

    Reply
    • SPC 18.1

      23 May 2024 at 6:25 pm

      This sort of Ministerial Q and A performance was why the files behind Monty Python and Yes Minister emerged from the cleaners union staff servicing Whitehall.

      Short version

      It is now with the Education Ministry to manage costs for their care, but they require the disabled children to be in a mainstream school or special school during school hours …

      when in current practice schools allow medical cause time outs (just funded from the disability budget).

      Is Louise Upston going to get away with the inept performance of the sort that her predecessor was removed for? Because she is National and gets her face alongside Luxon in photos? Or because the PM does not care either?

      Reply

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