Open mike 23/06/2023

53 comments on “Open mike 23/06/2023 ”

• Comments are now closed

1. Dennis Frank 1

   23 June 2023 at 6:12 am

   Three Waters phase 2 hits the road:

   Auckland and Northland will be the guinea pigs in a revised three waters model, becoming the first to form one of 10 water entities in July next year, with the remaining staggered out to mid-2026.

   Local Government Minister Kieran McAnulty confirmed the timeline today while introducing new legislation into the House for its first reading to cover recent changes to the water reforms, including expanding the initial four water service entities to 10.

   The boundaries will be established roughly along the lines of New Zealand’s 16 regional councils. The 10 entities will be owned by councils via a shareholding and allow more direct engagement with the water entities that will manage water services on their behalf.

   https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/politics/three-waters-reforms-auckland-northland-first-to-form-new-water-service-entities-in-july-2024/XP7GWH7KJBBFXOBFODOPNCV5YU/

   So we get a more regional design, plus a regulating supervisory organisation. What's the process now?

   The bill passed its first reading, supported by Labour and the Greens, and will be shortly referred to Select Committee, giving councils and other interested parties the chance to provide feedback.

   Timely move by Labour – may stem the ebb tide of floating voters triggered by Labour's various conflicts of interest.
2. Dennis Frank 2

   23 June 2023 at 6:24 am

   New Zealand's 4 Day Week has made Time magazine's list of the world's most influential companies, but is yet to make waves in New Zealand.

   Obviously because the media here are a slack bunch of thickos.

   Not-for-profit 4 Day Week Global, established in New Zealand and led by Andrew Barnes, made the TIME100 Most Influential Companies list, alongside global giants Apple, Microsoft, Disney and TikTok.

   The shorter work week concept was developed and trailed by Barnes alongside Charlotte Lockhart at Perpetual Guardian in 2018. It reduced a 40-hour work week to 32 hours for the same pay and benefits.

   Barnes said the shorter work week had found strong and growing support around the world. "The UAE (United Arab Emirates) has gone to a four-day week. There has been legislation brought in to enable it in Japan, Russia, Lithuania, Romania, Belgium.

   "There are government sponsored trials in Spain, Portugal. There are pilot programs in Brazil. There are bills before Congress, as well as before the legislators in four states of America. The Australian Senate Select Committee on Work and Care has recommended that Australia look at some sort of four-day week pilot."

   "At the rate this movement is growing, the reduced-hour approach to work will become mainstream policy within the next five years. We should all be proud that what started as a trial at a single company in 2018 has become a movement that is changing the world." However, he said New Zealand's uptake had been disappointing.

   That's due to conservative dork syndrome, which has prevailed in this country since WWII. Sure, there's been counter-trends at times. Kirk sending a frigate to the French nuclear testing zone, Lange making Aotearoa anti-nuclear, Springbok tour protest victory. But most suit-wearers are too useless to make clever moves or get it right.

   https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/business/492462/nz-not-for-profit-4-day-week-global-named-among-time-s-most-influential-companies
3. tWiggle 3

   23 June 2023 at 6:33 am

   Organised orcas: https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2023/jun/21/orca-rams-yacht-off-shetland-first-such-incident-northern-waters

   This is 2000 km north of Portugal.

   “I’d be reluctant to say it cannot be learned from [the southern population]. It’s possible that this ‘fad’ is leapfrogging through the various pods/communities.” said a local cetean expert.

   Blame Tiktok.
   • Sanctuary 3.1

     23 June 2023 at 7:47 am

     Oh dear, they are orcanizing!
     • bwaghorn 3.1.1

       23 June 2023 at 12:18 pm

       Someone should write them a cetacean!!
   • joe90 3.2

     23 June 2023 at 1:45 pm

     Who needs social media.

     Cultural transmission of behaviour is an important aspect of many animal communities ranging from humans to birds. Male humpback whales (Megaptera novaeangliae) sing a repetitive, stereotyped, socially learnt and culturally transmitted song display that slowly evolves each year. Most males within a population sing the same, slow-evolving song type; but in the South Pacific, song ‘revolutions’ have led to rapid and complete replacement of one song type by another introduced from a neighbouring population. Songs spread eastwards, from eastern Australia to French Polynesia, but the easterly extent of this transmission was unknown. Here, we investigated whether song revolutions continue to spread from the central (French Polynesia) into the eastern (Ecuador) South Pacific region. Similarity analyses using three consecutive years of song data (2016–2018) revealed that song themes recorded in 2016–2018 French Polynesian song matched song themes sung in 2018 Ecuadorian song, suggesting continued easterly transmission of song to Ecuador, and vocal connectivity across the entire South Pacific Ocean basin. This study demonstrates songs first identified in western populations can be transmitted across the entire South Pacific, supporting the potential for a circumpolar Southern Hemisphere cultural transmission of song and a vocal culture rivalled in its extent only by our own.

     https://royalsocietypublishing.org/doi/10.1098/rsos.220158
4. Bearded Git 4

   23 June 2023 at 7:15 am

   Five rich pricks die in a self-inflicted dangerous sightseeing tour of the remains of a ship at the bottom of the Atlantic and the MSM gives it wall to wall coverage for days on end.

   Around 500 poor asylum seekers die in the Med because distress calls from their boat were ignored and the MSM soon looks away.
   • Sanctuary 4.1

     23 June 2023 at 7:54 am

     Its an interesting commentary on the institutional racism of the media isn't it?

     Also they'd rather cover a freak show than ask deep questions about the establishment paradigms. Much easier = the press gallery is exactly the same, a breathless narrative of crisis and conflict drives them clicks!

     But you would go a long way to find a better parable for our times. "Move fast and break things" libertarian tech billionaire's arrogance kills five people in a hair brained deep sea submersible while his company demands the government spend huge sums of taxpayer money in an effort to try and save him.
     • James Simpson 4.1.1

       23 June 2023 at 9:59 am

       Although I agree with your general point I don't think it is an example of institutional racism.

       Two of the poor souls at the bottom of the ocean were of Pakistani descent.
       • arkie 4.1.1.1

         23 June 2023 at 10:52 am

         There were many more people of Pakistani descent involved in the migrant boat disaster. They were not 'people of means' however:

         Rescuers were likely to wind down their search for survivors soon, according to Thanasis Vasilopoulos, the mayor of Kalamata. “It’s hard to see search and rescue operations going on for much longer,” he said. “Unfortunately, we have not found any survivors today. The waters in the area where the incident happened are very deep. It is hard to imagine finding survivors by now.”

         The people rescued – all of whom are men – include 43 Egyptian nationals, 47 Syrian nationals, 12 Pakistani nationals, and two Palestinians, the Hellenic Coast Guard said. Eight of those rescued were minors.

         There were an estimated 750 passengers on the ship, including at least 40 children, according to a spokesperson for the International Organization for Migration.

         “If these numbers were confirmed, it would be the second most serious shipwreck in the Mediterranean,” Flavio Di Giacomo tweeted.

         https://edition.cnn.com/2023/06/15/europe/migrant-boat-sinking-greece-cause-intl/index.html
     • mikesh 4.1.2

       23 June 2023 at 11:28 am

       If millionaires were getting killed in submersibles pretty regularly I think the MSM would soon lose interest.
       • bwaghorn 4.1.2.1

         23 June 2023 at 7:19 pm

         You're probably right everest is littered with rich dead people
   • roy cartland 4.2

     23 June 2023 at 8:54 am

     Exactly my thoughts throughout. Ok they died, doing something incredibly dangerous and completely pointless, yes very sad for the families.

     But come on, we don't even know a single name of one of the people from the recent migrant disasters. People who were fleeing atrocious conditions to make some kind of life for their kids.

     But billionaires? They inflict misery on millions, knowingly, no matter how hard they try to spin their "achievements", it's pretty sickening.
   • Molly 4.3

     24 June 2023 at 8:38 am

     The comments on this incident show a level of schadenfreude I wouldn't have expected on The Standard.

     A degree of self-discipline before indulging in such comments about the sudden violent death of several strangers should have stayed these comments in your thoughts.

     Publishing them online exposes their juvenile nature.
     • Bearded Git 4.3.1

       24 June 2023 at 9:38 am

       Perhaps read my post again Molly. I was showing empathy for 500 poor people who had died needlessly.

       The 5 "strangers" caused their own deaths by taking part in an extremely risky, pointless and egotistical so-called adventure. They could have gone online to see pictures of the Titanic wreck.
       • Molly 4.3.1.1

         24 June 2023 at 9:58 am

         It seemed appropriate to post under your orginal, rather than under each reply.

         The "rich pricks" reference to unknown persons, just strikes me as a distorted version of the notorious "ferals" comment a few years back.

         It is apparent others feel the same as you about this.

         Just thought, I'd note that I didn't.

         However, not a big deal in the larger scheme of political discourse.
       • Belladonna 4.3.1.2

         24 June 2023 at 10:23 am

         Your objection seems to be the fact that the 'pointless and egotistical so-called adventure' cost a lot of money.
         We (as in the NZ taxpayer) regularly pay for search and rescue operations (some, sadly, unsuccessful) for sailors, trampers, etc – who could equally well have stayed at home and 'gone online'. Some of whom have been very poorly prepared – and certainly engaged in highly risky behaviour.
         Many of these hit the headlines – in much the same way as the Titanic submersible.

         Are these ordinary 'pointless and egotistical so-called adventurers' just as culpable in your view?
         • Bearded Git 4.3.1.2.1

           24 June 2023 at 10:51 am

           I said nothing about the cost of the search and rescue Bella. That was not my point at all.

           But to answer you anyway, some of my best friends are in Search and Rescue and I think they do a wonderful job even when they rescue a tramper that has got into self-inflicted trouble.
           • Belladonna 4.3.1.2.1.1

             24 June 2023 at 12:52 pm

             That wasn't the question – the question was whether the people needing S&R operations in NZ are just as much 'pointless and egotistical so-called adventurers' as those in the Titanic submersible.
             • Bearded Git …

               25 June 2023 at 6:03 am

               There is a slight difference between a billionaire going four thousand metres below the surface of the Atlantic and a backpacker walking the Routeburn and getting caught in bad/freak weather or twisting an ankle.
               • Belladonna …

                 25 June 2023 at 7:50 am

                 So the difference is money.
               • Belladonna …

                 25 June 2023 at 9:12 am

                 How about comparing apples with a related fruit.

                 Like a cruise ship tour to an active volcano.

                 Are the tourists equally culpable in their own deaths and injuries?

                 Yes. It was an 'accident' – no one had any inclination that the volcano was going to erupt that day.

                 Equally, the submersible was an 'accident' no one had any idea that there was going to be a catastrophic hull failure (the current theory) – on that trip.

                 How about idiot tourists (and even locals) who venture on hiking trips inadequately clothed and equipped? Or go swimming on the west coast beaches outside the flagged safe and monitored areas? They are unlikely to be billionaires – but have ignored even basic precautions – surely they are more liable?
5. tWiggle 5

   23 June 2023 at 8:11 am

   An opinion piece from London Review of Books about the UK government's attack on freedom of expression under guise of shutting down wokedness.

   "…the Public Order Act, which eviscerates the right to peaceful protest in the UK – [passed] just in time to empower the Metropolitan Police to arrest six members of the anti-monarchy group Republic on the morning of the coronation, with little outcry from the free speech brigade. Rishi Sunak has defended the police and their new powers, saying that people have the right ‘to go about their day-to-day lives without facing serious disruption’. ‘Serious disruption’ – a phrase that appears 94 times in the Public Order Act – now legally includes many of the mildest tactics used by activist groups from the women of Greenham Common to Extinction Rebellion, including locking on, blocking roads and blockading oil terminals. It also includes, according to the Metropolitan Police, carrying rape alarms, for which three women’s safety volunteers were arrested ahead of the coronation…

   "Does the right contradict itself? Very well then it contradicts itself. The new Higher Education Act [guaranteeing rights of individuals in university to not be 'cancelled'] appears on its face to be in conflict with the ‘Prevent duty’ created by the Counter-Terrorism and Security Act 2015… The government guidance on Prevent says that universities should prohibit visiting speakers who are likely to express ‘extremist views that risk drawing people into terrorism or are shared by terrorist groups’, even where the expression of such views is legal.”
6. joe90 6

   23 June 2023 at 8:18 am

   It was quick.

   Debris consistent with a catastrophic loss of the pressure chamber, according to Rear Adm. Mauger.

   […]

   Incredibly complex operating environment on the sea floor but ROV has been able to identify parts of the sub, says Rear Adm. Mauger.

   […]

   Five different major pieces, including nose cone, front end bell of the pressure hull, aft of the hull, found, according to officials.

   […]

   Castraphobic implosion and pressure of sea floor makes finding human remains challenging, says Rear Adm. Mauger.

   […]

   Debris fields of sub about 1,600 feet (~500 meters) off bow of the Titanic, according to officials.

   https://journa.host/@w7voa/110589418730320046

   • 0918.4: SOSUS and the Skylark detected hull collapse at a calculated depth of 2,400 feet, 450 feet below the crush depth of 1,950 feet (150 percent of test depth), creating a bubble pulse with an energy release equivalent to 22,500 pounds of TNT. The hull collapsed in 47 milliseconds (~1/20th of a second), too fast to be cognitively recognized by those on board.

   https://www.usni.org/magazines/proceedings/2018/july/declassify-thresher-data
   • Sanctuary 6.1

     23 June 2023 at 8:23 am

     I reckon they spotted the "Heart of the Ocean" and abandoned all caution to try and pick it up.
   • Roy Cartland 6.2

     23 June 2023 at 9:59 am

     The thing I always ask with a "news" story like this is, what the f*ck do they expect us to do about it?
     • Sanctuary 6.2.1

       23 June 2023 at 10:27 am

       "…what the f*ck do they expect us to do about it..?"

       Click on the link, send the link to our colleagues, talk about the link, comment on the link on SM.
       • KJT 6.2.1.1

         23 June 2023 at 2:17 pm

         See the associated ads!
7. tsmithfield 7

   23 June 2023 at 10:00 am

   In the spirit of Luxon's wife claiming a legal rebate for a Tesla purchase, despite Luxon being against the law that provides for this rebate, are the Greens in danger of being hypocritical in a similar way, although arguably worse?

   After all, they have previously attempted to have political donations capped at $35000. Yet they have just received two donations of $50000 each. So, since I know that the Green party is a party that stands on firmly on its principles, to remain consistent, will they give the donations back? Or, at least the $15k per donation in excess of the cap they wanted to set.
   • AB 7.1

     23 June 2023 at 11:10 am

     Elections are a competition – Tesla ownership is not.

     Why would you give back money legally obtained if your opponents do not – and in fact when your opponents are the darlings of the wealthy and receive several times more donations over $35k than you do? If you do give the money back, you hand a funding advantage to your opponents, making it somewhat less likely that you will win and get the opportunity to be in government and cap donations at whatever figure you think is actually democratic. I think you are once again failing to distinguish superficial similarities from genuine moral dilemmas.
     • tsmithfield 7.1.1

       23 June 2023 at 11:17 am

       Sounds like an "ends justify the means" argument to me. In principle though, it seems that there is a much more direct connection between campaigning on an issue, then contradicting that position so far as the Greens are concerned than was the case with Luxon.

       Actually, I think it is silly to make the argument in either case. I think it is quite reasonable to act within the rules that exist, even if the person or entity utilising those rules, in principal, opposes them.

       So, I don't actually have any beef with the Greens accepting the donations in the same way that I don't have any beef with Luxon's wife claiming the rebate.
       • Molly 7.1.1.1

         23 June 2023 at 12:32 pm

         "Actually, I think it is silly to make the argument in either case. I think it is quite reasonable to act within the rules that exist, even if the person or entity utilising those rules, in principal, opposes them."

         Agree. I hope it is something I personally would not do, and I would have utmost admiration for those who followed their own values alongside existing rules, but I don't feel the need to deride those who don't.
       • Phillip ure 7.1.1.2

         23 June 2023 at 6:45 pm

         The unanswered question here is did he buy her the cheap one…eligible for rebate..

         Or did he splash out and buy her the top of the range..(and if not why not..?..he can afford it..she mothered his children..etc..etc..)..which is not eligible for the cashback….?
       • Bearded Git 7.1.1.3

         25 June 2023 at 6:07 am

         It sounds like you are pissed off somebody is giving the Greens money tsmith. No rules have been broken. The Greens should be praised for trying to prevent NZ politics turning into a US style moneyfest.

         But there is no doubt that Luxon is a hypocrite…I wonder if he is driving to the Nats conference in the clean-car discounted Tesla or riding his scooter?
   • Jack 7.2

     23 June 2023 at 6:48 pm

     Three cheers for the Greens.

     Hyp, hyp, hypocrisy
     • Phillip ure 7.2.1

       23 June 2023 at 7:19 pm

       So… arguing for election funding reform..somehow disqualifies the greens from taking campaign donations under the unreformed system..?

       Don't think so…
       • tsmithfield 7.2.1.1

         23 June 2023 at 7:44 pm

         Yes. I agree. It is no worse than legally taking a rebate on a new car while opposing the policy in principle.
         • Jack 7.2.1.1.1

           23 June 2023 at 8:20 pm

           😉
         • tWiggle 7.2.1.1.2

           23 June 2023 at 8:26 pm

           Luxon's hipocricy is in obscuring the fact that he and his family bought Teslas using the subsidy. Luxon was unable to own and adequately justify his actions to the electorate.

           That's what makes him the full-blown hipocrite, rather than using the current system legally like the Greens, while advocating for change to those same rules. Luxon could have walked away from this looking good if he'd been open from the start.
           • Phillip ure 7.2.1.1.2.1

             24 June 2023 at 9:26 am

             The Tesla story is an irrelevance..

             The real story with luxon is the blatant conflict of interest..around him owning 7 properties…and him promising legislation that will financially favour him..in a big way…
8. ianmac 8

   23 June 2023 at 10:32 am

   Global sperm counts are falling. This scientist thinks she knows why A terrifying report from Shanna Swan. Pretty dire warning to the World population. That is us!

   For more than two decades she has devoted her life to studying the effects of “endocrine disrupting” chemicals (EDCs), which can interfere with the body’s natural hormones. These include pesticides, bisphenols, which harden plastic so it can be used in food storage containers and baby bottles, and phthalates, which soften plastic for use in packaging and products such as garden hoses. In recent years, traces of EDCs have been found in breast milk, placental tissue, urine, blood and seminal fluid….

   …The findings added to a growing consensus that certain pesticides were harmful. Legislators have failed to act sufficiently even now, Swan believes. “To this day, we have very inadequate restrictions on the kinds of pesticides that can be used and the crops they can be used on.” The ability of industry to resist tighter regulation, whether through obfuscation or lobbying, would be a constant frustration for her in the years that have followed.

   https://www.nzherald.co.nz/lifestyle/global-sperm-counts-are-falling-this-scientist-believes-she-knows-why/CNATVYNOAFDBVDRDJNRYQVRIUY/#
   • satty 8.1

     23 June 2023 at 11:46 am

     After all those years of research we finally found a male contraceptive
   • Visubversa 8.2

     23 June 2023 at 12:03 pm

     No problem, we don't need that many of them anyway. However, if it encourages people to use less of that stuff – it may be of use.
     • psych nurse 8.2.1

       23 June 2023 at 1:01 pm

       Less Sperm ? or fewer men ?.
       • Visubversa 8.2.1.1

         23 June 2023 at 4:46 pm

         Take your pick! They produce a great deal of sperm, most of which is "wasted" and it freezes well!
         • UncookedSelachimorpha 8.2.1.1.1

           23 June 2023 at 6:31 pm

           …getting dangerously close there to "making god get quite irate…"
         • Phillip ure 8.2.1.1.2

           23 June 2023 at 7:27 pm

           The biblical spilling of the seed upon the ground wouldn't happen so much now..

           We live in the age of the tissue.. unknown (and no doubt a thing of wonder) to biblical era seed-spillers..
   • SPC 8.3

     24 June 2023 at 11:20 am

     So

     1. the BPA and BPS impacts on the amount of sperm and thus the fertility of males

     2. and the amount of androgen in the womb during pregnancy can impact on psych-sexual development and with this there is a known physiological characteristic.

     This has been unfortunately termed a disorder of sexual development – because it has been seen as a factor is homosexuality (if not a determinant) and gender dysphoria and body dysmorphia. An irony in that people seek more or less of it when choosing a transgender identity.

     In contrast to gender differences in activities and interests, associations between prenatal exposure to androgens and development of gender identity or sexual orientation are unclear

     Sex development can be divided into two distinct processes: sex determination, in which the bipotential gonads form either testes or ovaries, and sex differentiation, in which the fully formed testes or ovaries secrete local and hormonal factors to drive differentiation of internal and external genitals, as well as extragonadal tissues such as the brain. DSDs can arise from a number of genetic lesions, which manifest as a spectrum of gonadal (gonadal dysgenesis to ovotestis) and genital (mild hypospadias or clitoromegaly to ambiguous genitalia) phenotypes. The physical attributes and medical implications associated with DSDs confront families of affected newborns with decisions, such as gender of rearing or genital surgery, and additional concerns, such as uncertainty over the child's psychosexual development and personal wishes later in life. In this Review, we discuss the underlying genetics of human sex determination and focus on emerging data, genetic classification of DSDs and other considerations that surround gender development and identity in individuals with DSDs.

     https://www.nature.com/articles/nrendo.2014.130
9. ianmac 9

   23 June 2023 at 1:45 pm

   There seems to be a lot more discussion around gender "identification these days. Is that due to increased prevalence or just greater scrutiny?

   AGD, or the length of the perineum, she explained, can reflect how much testosterone or androgen a foetus was exposed to during a very small window of pregnancy. “If there’s too little androgen for a boy, he doesn’t get fully masculinised,” she said. “If there’s too much androgen for a girl, she gets over-masculinised.” A mother with polycystic ovary syndrome, for example, will produce an excess of testosterone, and her daughter might have a longer, more masculine AGD.
   • Visubversa 9.1

     23 June 2023 at 4:46 pm

     Quoted from where please?
     • ianmac 9.1.1

       23 June 2023 at 5:03 pm

       Within the text of the above link.

       https://www.nzherald.co.nz/lifestyle/global-sperm-counts-are-falling-this-scientist-believes-she-knows-why/CNATVYNOAFDBVDRDJNRYQVRIUY/#
       • Molly 9.1.1.1

         24 June 2023 at 9:53 am

         Paywalled for me.

         What relevance does biological changes (which I assume from your original comment above the article is about) have to what you introduce as "a lot more discussion around gender "identification"?

         Are you:

         1. Conflating biological sex with declared gender identity?

         2. Equating reduced viable sperm count with reduced maleness?

         3. Observing the known teratogenic effects of testosterone during pregnancy?

         3. Obliquely referencing DSDs – if so – why?

         Since Rachel Carson's publication of The Silent Spring in 1962, there has been greater public awareness of the effect of environment on endocrine systems.

         What is your discussion point here?
   • Blackcap 9.2

     23 June 2023 at 9:04 pm

     Joe Rogan and RFK Jr also talk about this extensively in their recent podcast. Joe has also spoken about this earlier with other guests.

• Comments are now closed

• Log in
• Donate
• Contribute post

• Articles RSS