Open mike 23/08/2023

48 comments on “Open mike 23/08/2023 ”

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1. PsyclingLeft.Always 1

   23 August 2023 at 7:52 am

   The National Party has raked in more than seven times more in donations than Labour since the start of 2021, raising concerns our political donation rules are tilted towards those with the deepest pockets.

   https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/in-depth/496383/national-banks-7-point-5-times-more-in-donations-than-labour

   Our, and IMO, NZ's enemy… are being hugely funded by our enemies.

   Very similar to when MMP was first promulgated….the uber rich were very vocal against, and put huge resource into stopping it.

   To me, we must get all who dont want NActfrst in "power", to vote..and get like minds to vote.

   For NZ's Future.
   • Tiger Mountain 1.1

     23 August 2023 at 8:12 am

     The donation figures tell the story, the parasite class are terrified of a wealth tax–“it burnses usss…” but seem to have enough loot sloshing around to fund Natzos/Act/NZ First in the 2023 election campaign, for rather obvious reasons.

     Even Chris Hipkins tried referring in a veiled way to capital flight when questioned on TVNZ last night on a wealth tax and free dental that have increasing support–up to 70%–from all sides of the political spectrum.

     The Greens and TPM are fronting up well now, and NZ Labour needs to join them in informing voters what they are in for. If NACTfirst as PsyclingLeft succinctly puts it, attain office, working class people are going to lose a lot more than free prescriptions.
     • Patricia Bremner 1.1.1

       23 August 2023 at 10:07 am

       I am pleased Labour's last call to members has passed the goal set, and shows members and the public are beginning to recognise what is at stake. Most raised in six years. $413 000 in 4 days. $5 to $5000 put up by members, doubled by supporters. So we are growing a fighting fund which is open to further donations.

       We should stop "buying into" National's "They have done nothing", and list the real meaningful gains for people. There are many. Start lauding the progress made in spite of the opposition, who have already "walked back" support they offered formerly.

       The constant comparison of Aotearoa NZ with Aussie.

       They have assets we don't, but they also have some huge issues with collapsing big businesses, growing unemployment, falling house prices, wilder weather, and wild fires are already a worry with the change in weather patterns. Plus pests at higher levels. Pest plagues actually.

       I have family in three states. They have family renting and paying in excess of $700+ a week for houses. Granted pay levels are better, but not that much better as at one point a cauliflower was $13.00

       They are now entering the "contracted/part time" unprotected work in many places, as businesses shed staff and then take people on in a temporary way.

       If you are injured at work, you have to rely on insurances to help you.

       They do have more sunshine hours, but more roads showing flood signs 2meters+.

       We are more community minded, and admire Ed Hillary for his humanitarian work in Nepal, rather than the glitz of New York, a place many Australians aspire to visit.

       My grand niece was shocked at the rows of tents housing homeless in New York city. Dislocation and hardship caused by covid is everywhere. A huge change from her prior visit a few years previously.

       We are told this is a disorganised bad government. Really? They have managed six+ major crises while bringing forward changes.

       Not at the speed we had hoped, and at greater debt levels than we hoped, but they have kept employment high, tried to improve work conditions and pay, provide the services in a world competing for skilled people.

       In a pandemic which has now settled to infecting 4 to 5 thousand each week and hospitalising 200 odd and killing 12 to 20 we complain about the "inefficiency" of our hospital systems, as we have longer waits for other procedures and treatments.

       Our systems strained but never broke under the load. We have been fortunate, but to hear National and a few of our own you could be led to believe it is "all bad"

       Come on the Left, donate and believe we can do even better, because becoming despondent means they win as our voters fail to get out and vote. What we want fixed won’t be fixed by National and Act.
       • Jilly Bee 1.1.1.1

         23 August 2023 at 5:48 pm

         Excellent comment, Patricia. Hubby and I have a monthly automatic payment set up to donate to Labour, but we have scraped up an extra $100 following the email from Helen Clark and I'm delighted the plea for funds has brought in some much needed funding for the campaign – heaven only knows it is sorely needed. In the immortal words of Fred Dagg – 'we don't know how lucky we are', which reminds me of the campaign when Bill Rowling was running for PM – there was a TV advert where he ran into Fred Dagg, they had a short conversation and if I recall, Fred finished up with those words. Sadly – Rob's mob won the day.
         • Patricia Bremner 1.1.1.1.1

           23 August 2023 at 10:41 pm

           Thanks Jilly Bee and Hubby.

           Sometimes I wonder if I am shouting at the moon! But like you I donate fortnightly, and because I have a modest pension from 21 years of saving ( GSF )

           I am able to give fortnightly, and Norm agreed twice to $500 gifts for their funds. I am awaiting a board in front of our place, but guess Hayden got busy.

           The money that Paula Bennett has raised for National is so over the top, it is like they are trying to buy the election.

           If we don't win we still need a strong opposition, but by working together we may pull this off. Every dollar counts.

           Thank you for your kind words. Let us hope our PM's daughter is out of hospital soon and he can campaign.
     • Anne 1.1.2

       23 August 2023 at 10:14 am

       The Greens and TPM are fronting up well now, and NZ Labour needs to join them in informing voters what they are in for.

       And therein lies a major problem – one that I have banged on about for years:

       Labour over-estimates the ability of the public in general to see through the sycophantic NActoids who suck up to the big money boys and girls at the expense of the rest of us. Add to that a noisy, dishonest bunch of tabloid journos who are more than happy to enable them because they know some of the spoils will trickle down to them by way of perks and positions.

       Labour are way too timid when it comes to stepping up and calling them out at every opportunity. That includes the tabloid rats. Too late now. The government of chaos meme is fully entrenched.

       Being nice and kind does not cut it in a political climate like we have now. The old truism 'fight fire with fire' is as true today as it ever was.
       • Anne 1.1.2.1

         23 August 2023 at 10:33 am

         PS. Anyone who was part of the political scene in the Muldoon days will know what I am talking about. He rode roughshod over his 'enemies' and few had the guts to stand up to him. He brought the country to the brink of bankruptcy and paved the way for neo-liberalism.
         • bwaghorn 1.1.2.1.1

           23 August 2023 at 5:58 pm

           Was thinking just yesterday what my retirement might have looked like if the super scheme he killed off would have looked like after 35 years of working life so far.
   • AB 1.2

     23 August 2023 at 9:02 am

     The government put a loaded gun to it's head when during the pandemic it did the most unforgiveable thing in contemporary neoliberal capitalism – it briefly prioritised the public good over private profit and became hugely popular as a result. Such contagion of the proper order of things had to be stopped, and all it took after that was for big money to come along and pull the trigger.
     • Tiger Mountain 1.2.1

       23 August 2023 at 9:22 am

       Agree AB, for a glorious few months Public Health was put ahead of Capital accumulation. In retrospect also Robbo should have ensured COVID payments were made direct via IRD rather than through employers, but hey, too late now.
2. Blazer 2

   23 August 2023 at 8:51 am

   What's Labour's excuse for no CGT?

   The so called transformational Govt's deeds did not match their words.

   When people are looking for meat and potato policy,they come up with no GST on fresh/frozen fruit and veges and restricting vape shops to 600!

   Underwhelming strategy and a squandering of political capital that has defeat staring them in the face.

   The Capt and his call is sinking beneath the deep,blue …sea.
   • SPC 2.1

     23 August 2023 at 9:14 am

     That call was earlier made by Ardern.

     They worked around that by having he bright-line test going to 5, then 10 years and the end of mortgage cost deduction against rent income for existing property. This to incentivise sale of rental property and to collect some bright-line test CG tax revenue – and move the landlord capital into new builds to increase supply.

     That issue had moved onto either an estate tax or a wealth tax (2/3rd of nations have an estate tax and some have a CG that includes the family homes of the wealthy elite).
   • weka 2.2

     23 August 2023 at 10:09 am

     You can always vote Green.

     https://thestandard.org.nz/fifteen-green-mps-or-more/
   • Ad 2.3

     23 August 2023 at 10:40 am

     There is now no combination of Parliament that will support a Capital Gains Tax.

     Time to let it go.
     • Shanreagh 2.3.1

       23 August 2023 at 11:28 am

       Agree. if we need new or different targetted taxes we need to be thinking of taxes other than a weath tax or CGT.
       • Craig H 2.3.1.1

         23 August 2023 at 3:26 pm

         Land tax is simplest albeit still requiring some nuance.
         • Shanreagh 2.3.1.1.1

           23 August 2023 at 3:48 pm

           Yes indeed, also death duties could be renovated into something that will work better. I think part of the reason it fell into disfavour in the past was that the levels were not regularly reviewed.

           I personally think all but say very small estates under say $5000 (might be too low) could be caught, then a low percentage or several flat rates until it got to levels such as the Labour Government was thinking of using in its wealth tax ideas.

           Treasury estimates reckoned the wealth tax would have hit about 25,000 people – the top 0.5 per cent of New Zealanders. Their total wealth reckoned to be $300b, or 26 per cent of the total wealth held by New Zealanders.

           https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/politics/election-2023-chris-hipkins-confirms-he-killed-wealth-tax-capital-gains-tax-in-budget/LZNZMSBEBNEQFHUSJKP4637TIA/

           https://www.treasury.govt.nz/sites/default/files/2023-07/b23-tax-4796987.pdf
     • newsense 2.3.2

       23 August 2023 at 2:03 pm

       Because everyone knows the Greens will just roll over and do what the blue-reds say?
       • weka 2.3.2.1

         23 August 2023 at 2:54 pm

         Shaw has said clearly that the cross benches are an option this election and that Labour can't take the Greens' support for granted.
   • Chris 2.4

     23 August 2023 at 2:30 pm

     Dead right, they gambled on luxon's buffoonery to see them through so decided holding the line was the best bet after realising the surprising level of support Hipkins had after Ardern's departure. What they didn't gamble on were ministers getting up-ended following the handy work of the right's black ops, which made quick work of their strategy to sit tight and has made them look like not only a shell of a party with no policies, but a shell of a party with stupid policies. The rest will be history…
3. SPC 3

   23 August 2023 at 9:20 am

   The latest coverage (Newshub, Herald and now Stuff) on the new visa for migrant workers.

   Immigration New Zealand staff have been warning their managers for a year that the under-fire Accredited Employer Work Visa (AEWV) system has major flaws and is a recipe for migrant exploitation – but were ignored.

   https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/132784074/the-system-is-f-immigration-staff-say-bosses-knew-visa-system-didnt-work-and-ignored-it

   Origin

   New Minister Wood July 2022 (Faafoi retired in June)

   https://www.beehive.govt.nz/release/applications-now-open-new-work-visa-holders-offshore

   Policy declared May 2022

   https://www.beehive.govt.nz/release/fully-open-border-and-immigration-changes-speed-economic-growth
4. PsyclingLeft.Always 4

   23 August 2023 at 11:34 am

   Nat MP Woodhouse denies….

   Michael Woodhouse denies claiming gender was behind demotion

   https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/496395/michael-woodhouse-denies-claiming-gender-was-behind-demotion

   Earlier..

   Being male cost me my position: Woodhouse

   https://www.odt.co.nz/news/dunedin/being-male-cost-me-my-position-woodhouse
   • Shanreagh 4.1

     23 August 2023 at 1:09 pm

     They, Nats, may have wanted to clear the lists of the last of the types of creeps like those who made Hon Clare Curran's political life a misery.

     Michael Woodhouse presents a divisive figure and thinking Nats, and there are some, probably thought someone like MW was no longer wanted on the journey.

     https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2020/07/ex-national-mp-apologises-for-savage-attacks-on-outgoing-labour-mp-clare-curran.html
     • bwaghorn 4.1.1

       23 August 2023 at 4:45 pm

       Something about that guy always gave me the creeps, glad he's going.
     • Belladonna 4.1.2

       23 August 2023 at 5:43 pm

       I think it's more that he's been a list-only MP since 2008, and had several ministerial portfolios (Immigration, Police, etc.) without exactly setting the world on fire – either in Government or in Opposition.

       I expect that there was a feeling that it was time for him to move on, and leave the more winnable list places to new talent.

       However, if that was the case, I don't feel that it was handled at all well by the National Party and leadership. An honest conversation over his chances of Ministerial roles (should National/ACT win the election), giving him the chance to bow out gracefully – would have been a far better outcome for everyone concerned.
       • Shanreagh 4.1.2.1

         23 August 2023 at 6:20 pm

         However, if that was the case, I don't feel that it was handled at all well by the National Party and leadership. An honest conversation over his chances of Ministerial roles (should National/ACT win the election), giving him the chance to bow out gracefully – would have been a far better outcome for everyone concerned.

         Yes there is alot to be said for good manners and kindness and thinking of the feelings of others. I was deeply affected by seeing how hurt a health sector board chair was when he got no letter of thanks let alone one that said he was not going to be re-appointed. His appointment was thought by the Nats to be a political appointment, it wasn't, and that was the rationale apparently for no reappointment and no letter of thanks.

         Good manners and thanks costs nothing.
     • Patricia Bremner 4.1.3

       24 August 2023 at 1:03 pm

       They need to try harder. Chris Bishop Tobacco and Barbara Kuriger who used her position to try to influence a court case against her son for animal cruelty.
5. Ad 5

   23 August 2023 at 1:27 pm

   On yer bike moran:

   "Elaine Naidu Franz, who was ACT's candidate for Rangitata and ranked 29th on its list, resigned after 1 News questioned ACT about her comments comparing vaccine mandates to Nazi concentration camps."

   https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/300955677/nz-election-2023-live-act-candidate-quits-after-comparing-vaccine-mandates-to-concentration-camps
   • observer 5.1

     23 August 2023 at 1:46 pm

     It took no time at all to discover what ACT candidates really believe, once they came under scrutiny.

     Unfortunately, the free ride for Seymour's followers has gone on far too long, with the media finally waking up only weeks from an election. It was always obvious who ACT were attracting from the fringes.

     The extraordinary lack of curiosity about the alternative government has been worse than in any previous MMP election campaign. Vote "Other" but don't ask who they are and what they stand for. And if Labour/Greens point this out … they are called "negative"!

     It's a weird way for a democracy to function. Don't ask, don't tell.
     • newsense 5.1.1

       23 August 2023 at 2:01 pm

       Sssssh Labour is the stupidest, stupidest, dumbest thicky thicky Blackadder!
     • Mike the Lefty 5.1.2

       23 August 2023 at 7:28 pm

       Oh well any nutter candidates that ACT kick out will likely find open arms in New Zealand First.
6. SPC 6

   23 August 2023 at 1:28 pm

   Creating news for mainstream media to report.

   A Curia-Taxpayers Union electorate poll, then the Taxpayer Union hosts a candidates debate. With The Platform (Wright family) show hosts as MC and debate moderator.

   It could have been worse, with ZB show hosts and Cameron Slater there (with Simon Lusk and Jason Ede) I suppose.

   https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/300955583/national-leads-polling-in-bellwether-napier-but-23-per-cent-of-voters-undecided
7. Tricledrown 7

   23 August 2023 at 2:35 pm

   It surprises me with not many people posting this close to the election looks like the left are giving up.
8. Patricia Bremner 8

   23 August 2023 at 2:44 pm

   No Tricledrown, the young are working out door knocking fund raising putting up signs.
9. observer 9

   23 August 2023 at 2:58 pm

   We're now up to 3 ACT candidates who have either been dumped or had to apologise for their recent past. That's in just one day, who's next?

   It's not an investigation by Woodward and Bernstein. These people have been caught simply by looking at the internet. David Seymour has only one job – to be in charge of his party. So let's get him to run a Ministry, he won't make any mistakes at all.
   • Shanreagh 9.1

     23 August 2023 at 3:54 pm

     So let's get him to run a Ministry, he won't make any mistakes at all.

     I some how doubt you could rely on that……there are ever so many more people in a Ministry he could blame.

     But seriously, he must be about the worst at the sustained bad mouthing of the entire Public Service over his entire time in Parliament and it will take some big boy pants wearing to be able to make a transition to being a Minister should this horrible prospect arise.
10. alwyn 10

    23 August 2023 at 4:23 pm

    Who ever said that the Labour Government couldn't get anything done?

    At the last moment they introduced 286 pages of amendments to a 300 page ill and then whipped them through the house. Apart from the Minister answering questions during the Committee stages the only contribution from the Government appears to have been regular contributions from the Junior whip wanting to put the question so that all debate could be stopped.

    The Bill was the Water Services Legislation. What a bloody shambles. Even the Green and Maori Parties seem to be embarrassed. They didn't contribute to the debate but they at least voted against the bulldozing going on.

    https://www.parliament.nz/en/pb/hansard-debates/rhr/combined/HansDeb_20230822_20230823_02
    • SPC 10.1

      23 August 2023 at 4:34 pm

      Maybe KN can have another go.

      https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/local-government/300439606/three-waters-an-idiots-guide-to-the-massive-water-fight
      • alwyn 10.1.1

        23 August 2023 at 6:48 pm

        Well the first couple of lines were accurate.

        The reporter's Editor thought he was an idiot and so he proved to be. Meanwhile, are you impressed with Chippies’ demonstration of what he thinks is a preferable alternative to Democracy?
        • SPC 10.1.1.1

          23 August 2023 at 7:10 pm

          Classless misunderstanding of the term “idiots guide” – maybe he needed to dumb it down a tad further … to reach all of the target audience.
          • alwyn 10.1.1.1.1

            23 August 2023 at 7:17 pm

            When someone starts a story with the following statement I know exactly what he is saying, and what he suggests the Editor meant.

            "When the editor asked for an Idiot’s Guide to Three Waters I suspected nothing, naively. “You’d be perfect,” she said, with what might have been a smirk."
11. alwyn 11

    23 August 2023 at 7:01 pm

    This article is paywalled I'm afraid but the headline says it all really. The story says billion, not pc by the way.

    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/government-expected-to-borrow-35pc-more-than-planned-eight-months-ago/VNDWOLXR6VD7DPFHJW7A3LATPQ/

    Who is willing to step up and explain what a fantastic Finance Minister Robbo has been? A $35 billion dollar mistake (or hole if you prefer). What is a word for a very, very, very big hole? Whatever it is it is what Labour are leaving New Zealand in.

    This is even more spectacular than the stinking mess Palmer and Clark left us in when they got the boot.
    • SPC 11.1

      23 August 2023 at 7:45 pm

      Moore led Labour into the 1990 election.

      Afterward Richardson slashed benefits – crisis crisis. Then removed estate tax – what crisis …

      Clark led Labour into the 2008 election.

      Afterward National said they could not afford their promised tax cuts without increasing GST, so they increased GST.
      • alwyn 11.1.1

        23 August 2023 at 10:40 pm

        "Moore led Labour into the 1990 election."

        Yes technically true. He was Prime Minister for 60 days and saved them a fair number of seats. Gosh, Labour could help their cause by dumping Hipkins tomorrow and they might save some of their MPs.

        Let's face it. Labour left the country in the shit in 1990. The did just the same thing in 2008 and are leaving an even worse situation this year.
12. Tricledrown 12

    23 August 2023 at 8:12 pm

    Nationals cutting the prescriptions for free or for several million New Zealanders or 1,000 people get very expensive treatment just like John Key did in the 2008 election but by 2017 Keys National Government cut healthfunding by more than 20% to give tax cuts to the rich.Nationals tough on Crime same story National under Key cut police numbers by 20% plus for tax cuts for the wealthy.National can't help themselves conning enough poor people so they can make the already rich richer hoarding property money and resources.Dickensian days are here to stay.National put just enough on the table to tug the heart strings.while free prescriptions help millions tens of thousands avoiding complications over loading hospitals getting their medications.
    • alwyn 12.1

      24 August 2023 at 9:50 am

      "National under Key cut police numbers by 20%"

      That statement is total rubbish. The Police numbers did not drop during the time that Key was PM. You are simply making that statement up.

      Here are the police numbers each year for the bulk of Key's time as PM. It is on page 125 of this document.

      https://www.police.govt.nz/sites/default/files/publications/annual-report-2016-2017.pdf
      • joe90 12.1.1

        24 August 2023 at 10:00 am

        "Lies, damned lies, and statistics"

        The Verdict

        Police NZ data shows actual police numbers rose between 2008 and 2016, during which time Ms Collins served two distinct periods as police minister.

        When police numbers are described as an officer to resident ratio, they show an improvement during Ms Collins’ first period as police minister (from 1/519 in 2008, to 1/507 in 2011).

        However, during Ms Collins’ second run as police minister, population growth in NZ largely outstripped the growth in police numbers (1/514 in 2015 to 1/526 in 2016). This is also true when you compare police to resident ratios for 2008 to the same data for 2016.

        This means NZ Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern is only correct to say police numbers fell under Judith Collins when those figures are expressed as police per head of population.

        Somewhat False – The claim has a problem or inaccuracy but it does contain a significant element or elements of truth.

        * AAP FactCheck is accredited by the Poynter Institute’s International Fact-Checking Network, which promotes best practice through a stringent and transparent Code of Principles. https://aap.com.au/

        https://www.aap.com.au/factcheck/nz-prime-minister-jacinda-ardern-says-police-numbers-declined-under-nationals-leader/
        • alwyn 12.1.1.1

          24 August 2023 at 12:38 pm

          There are many things that Tricledrown could have said that would have been correct. He could have said that Gang numbers had risen markedly during the Ardern/Hipkins led Government for example.

          What he did say was that "National under Key cut police numbers by 20%".

          That statement was, as I showed, simply not true. Trying to demonstrate that some other statement that he might have said, but didn't, could have been true doesn't somehow miraculously make this false statement true.

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