Open mike 23/10/2023

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, October 23rd, 2023 - 20 comments
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20 comments on “Open mike 23/10/2023 ”

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  1. gsays 1
    23 October 2023 at 7:50 am

    Happy Labour Day everyone.

    A gorgeous blue day has dawned here in the Manawatu. After a visit from a friend and her 2 children we plan an afternoon at the beach. Try out the new fishing drone (a toy bought with pay parity funds) and then spinning for a kahawai at the Rangitikei river mouth.

    Since last weekend's result I have been mulling over what Labour can do to reconnect with the citizenry over the next wee while. During the election there was an effort to triple the vote. Howzabout doing the same thing but with union membership?

    It comes as no surprise that it needs to disconnect from the neo-liberal way of doing things but this cant happen in one go.

    What are the baby steps it can take policy wise that start it on that journey?

    That is assuming they see adherence to neo-liberalism as an issue.

    • Tony Veitch 1.1
      23 October 2023 at 7:59 am

      That is assuming they see adherence to neo-liberalism as an issue.

      And there lies the issue!

      • gsays 1.1.1
        23 October 2023 at 8:50 am

        Sigh, I think you are right.

        Plus all the hand wringing from the mourners about being outspent, lies for policy from National and not having the 3rd debate clouds where the real problems lay.

        • Barfly 1.1.1.1
          23 October 2023 at 9:27 am

          TBF being heavily outspent (policy for $),and lies about policy played a part.

          • SapphireGem 1.1.1.1.1
            23 October 2023 at 5:27 pm

            Barfly- absolutely! As per my reply to gsays, pretending these factors didn’t have a huge impact is not only disingenuous but also illogical, because why else would parties seek out massive financial backing, if not to influence the election outcome; and why Luxon and Willis have misrepresented their tax plan, if not to gain votes?

          • Phillip ure 1.1.1.1.2
            24 October 2023 at 4:28 pm

            @ barfly..
            It played a small part…but really labour have set a new benchmark in carelessness..

            Losing 50% of a standalone majority in just three years..

            Those banging on about the reason being because national had more money to spend..etc etc..is just so much b.s…

        • SapphireGem 1.1.1.2
          23 October 2023 at 5:25 pm

          gsays- pretending that being outspent was not a huge factor in Labour’s loss is wilfully disingenuous. You would fully understand the power and influence of massive financial backing- if huge donations didn’t influence elections, why would political parties seek out donations?

          Your attempt to minimise National’s blatant misrepresentation of their tax plan as a key factor of the election outcome is also deliberately disingenuous, or perhaps you are being obtuse. People are heavily influenced by the idea of getting more money; the fact that people still voted for National despite National’s lies being publicised shows that many people are, just as you are, wilfully oppositional and determined to disregard information that is right in front of their faces.

          The argument that Labour lost support due to people finding them too centrist and incrementalist does not hold, because if this was the case (I.e., people wanting a political swing to the “true Left”), those who en masse in a perverse, resentful, mutinous manner voted National would have voted for TPM or the Greens, who have these “true Left” polices.

          Hope you enjoyed your Labour Day at the beach.

          • Anne 1.1.1.2.1
            23 October 2023 at 6:05 pm

            The argument that Labour lost support due to people finding them too centrist and incrementalist does not hold…

            To begin with the majority of people wouldn't even know what that meant – especially the incrementalist bit.

            I can only speak for relatives – and a few others – who were indeed "heavily influenced" by the barrage of negative images and language spread across the newspapers, television and internet. This was evidenced by the almost word for word repeated phrases they used, all of which had originated from NAct.

            That is what truck loads of money can do. When you add that to the already significant fallout from the pandemic plus the weather disasters then you have a recipe for irrational and negative voting patterns. The electoral laws need tightening.

          • gsays 1.1.1.2.2
            23 October 2023 at 6:52 pm

            Heh, I can reassure you no fish were barmed.

          • Phillip ure 1.1.1.2.3
            24 October 2023 at 4:33 pm

            @ sapphire…

            You clearly don't get it..

            National were not voted in.

            Labour was booted out..

            The reason being they promised (much needed)..transformation..

            They delivered (not needed) incrementalism..

            And nobody believed them any more..

      • Drowsy M. Kram 1.1.2
        23 October 2023 at 12:33 pm

        Wealthiest paying tax at much lower rate than most other New Zealanders – IRD report [26 April 2023]

        An opposition Labour party might finally embrace a fairer tax system, be it in the form of the Tax Working Group's CGT, a Green / TPM-style wealth tax, and/or a more progressive income tax. Change will be well overdue 3/6/9 years from now.

        The ideology that has sucked the life from our politics [10 Oct 2023]
        Why do the major parties and their leaders seem like place-holders, while we wait in dwindling hope of the real thing coming along? Why does the current campaign feel like a ghost election? Is the real one taking place in a parallel universe or what?

        Several factors could help supply answers to these questions; but the predominant one is neoliberalism — the ideology that since the 1980s has infiltrated not only politics and the public service, but wider society from the classroom to the cowshed in so many subtle ways that most people scarcely notice it. It’s just there. It’s the way things are.

        But of course like any form of capitalism, it is a system that fundamentally favours the rich and the powerful. Under neoliberalism, the arc of the economic universe is long, but it bends towards inequality.
        …
        Trump’s electoral success tells us that democracy (as practised over the past 40 years) is failing a great many people—too many to ignore. New Zealand should pay heed.

        We have not had a Trump yet, but it can’t be ruled out that one will arise sooner or later. And when he or she does, they’ll make David Seymour look Marxist, and Winston Peters look woke.

        NZ election 2023: Labour out, National in – either way, neoliberalism wins again [18 Oct 2023]

        The underlying consensus

        None of this means Labour and National mirror each other. Labour is more centrist, more committed to maintaining public services. National is more business-friendly and seems poised to make deeper cuts to public services.
        …
        But beneath those apparent ideological differences there remains an underlying neoliberal consensus. Roughly speaking, this compact aims to keep taxes low, push for free trade agreements, maintain a largely deregulated business sector, enable financial speculation, and use interest rates to combat inflation.
        …
        Given we are now seeing living standards squeezed to combat inflation, and government austerity to pay off Covid debts, neoliberalism still seems embedded in the political and economic fabric of Aotearoa. This is especially so with the election success of parties promising to reduce government spending.

        How much of Labour’s legacy will survive? A comprehensive analysis
        [18 October 2023]

    • gsays 1.2
      24 October 2023 at 6:50 am

      Phew!

      So all we need to do is hope National stop lying and greedy property types stop donating and Labour have 2026 in the bag./sarc

      • Phillip ure 1.2.1
        24 October 2023 at 4:41 pm

        @gsays..

        Yeah…it's as silly as it sounds..

        And that there was a pandemic..so we couldn't do anything else..is wearing a bit thin..

        Were the ministers all standing in a group..flapping their hands in panic..and unable to enter their offices..to work..?

        More b.s. excuses from diehard labour apologists..

        I would urge them all to go and look in a mirror..

        (An example of the neglect practised by that sorry excuse for a labour party..was the welfare reform group set up by labour..who made 33 recommendations for change…labour enacted none of them..

        How about the apologist's have a go at explaining that one away..

        • gsays 1.2.1.1
          24 October 2023 at 4:52 pm

          I don't want to appear like I'm picking on folk but when they've answered your excellent query, I'd like them to explain how improving conditions for workers and renters sits with running record migration.

          The plight of 40 men, living in a three bedroom house, no jobs nor income because they came here for welding and driving jobs, is a shameful, but appropriate blight on the last administration

          With some old school union principles, employers who needed those workers could have been told to train a resident.

        • Incognito 1.2.1.2
          24 October 2023 at 6:45 pm

          How about the apologist's [sic] have a go at explaining that one away..

          How about you explain what you’re on about with your “welfare reform group set up by labour..who [sic] made 33 recommendations for change”.

          I could speculate that you mean the WEAG, which made 42 recommendations for change, but this doesn’t seem to fit your claim that the previous Government did nothing with/about them!?

  3. joe90 3
    23 October 2023 at 2:09 pm

    Oh dear, how sad, never mind.

    Omar Rivero

    @OmarRiverosays

    BREAKING: FOX News gets devastating news as the FCC(Federal Communications Commission) announces that it’s launching the preliminary process of stripping FOX News of its broadcasting license in Philadelphia over its pushing of Trump’s Big Lie.

    But it gets WORSE for FOX News…

    It all started last July when media reform activists petitioned the FCC to revoke Fox News’ local broadcast license in Philadelphia over its rampant election fraud propaganda, which is a clear violation of the “character clause” embedded in the Communications Act that the FCC uses to determine if a network should earn and maintain its broadcasting license.

    Today, the FCC announced that it is moving forward with its investigation by opening up an “evidentiary hearing” in which citizens and advocacy groups can comment publicly and provide evidence of FOX News’ election lies.

    FOX News and its army of lawyers adamantly opposed the hearing, but the FCC took the “rare step” of deciding to move forward with it, sending FOX News’ lawyers spiraling into a frenzy.

    To make matters worse for FOX News, experts say that if Philadelphia activists are able to get FOX News pulled from the air, it could “be replicable” in other cities and markets all across America.

    This could be the beginning of the end of FOX “News” as we know it…

    https://twitter.com/OmarRiverosays/status/1716205635208102127

  4. adam 4
    23 October 2023 at 2:54 pm

    So 5 days ago the US vetoed food, water and other essentials to Gaza. Then said they would do it. But…

    As always, delays rule the day. As of this morning a total of 37 UNRWA trucks have taken in medical essentials into Gaza.

    https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/10/22/second-aid-convoy-enters-gaza-as-israel-steps-up-bombardments

    A drop in the ocean.

    Not targeting civilians – yeah right.

  5. newsense 5
    23 October 2023 at 11:24 pm

    Signs of the apocalypse part 5: no chips at the White Lady

    We’ve used Mr Chips brand for 15 years because they’re locally owned and of amazing quality, but they told me due to a nation-wide bad crop and the flood followed by Cyclone Gabrielle, there were less Agria potatoes.”

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/life-style/food-drink/133137604/iconic-auckland-food-truck-the-white-lady-could-run-out-of-hot-chips-by-the-weekend