Open mike 23/11/2022

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, November 23rd, 2022 - 91 comments
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Open mike is your post.

For announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose.

The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the Policy).

Step up to the mike …

91 comments on “Open mike 23/11/2022 ”

  1. Jimmy 1

    Who was it that said Andrew Little has the 'Midas touch' but in reverse. I guess mental health isn't that important after all. They should have given funding to Mike King instead to actually get something done.
    https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2022/11/new-zealand-has-same-number-of-acute-mental-health-beds-as-when-labour-came-to-power.html

    • Ed1 1.1

      5 years may be just enough time to have a small number more specialists completing training in mental health than had been arranged by the previous government, but other health workers are in short supply – we do keep forgetting that Covid is still with us. It is regrettable that even a small turn of a big ship takes time. Meantime I am aware that we have recruited some specialists from overseas, – that may have offset normal retirements and some going overseas, but forward planning with longer than a single term focus was not a feature of the previous government – and to be fair Covid has increased the need for mental services by as much as just recognising the issue . .. .

    • Visubversa 1.2

      All Mr. King has to do is the apply through the required process like anybody else who wants Government money.

      • AB 1.2.1

        But Jimmy wants "something" done. There was a handy little dictionary first published in 1965 called Let Stalk Strine. The entry for the word Aorta is informative:

        Aorta – Aorta is the vessel through which courses the life-blood of Strine public opinion. Aorta is a composite but non-existent Authority which is held responsible for practically everything unpleasant in the Strine way of life… The following are typical examples of such appeals. They reveal the innate reasonableness …which all Strines possess to such a marked degree: Aorta have more buses. And aorta mikem smaller so they don't take up half the road. An aorta have more room innem – you carn tardly move innem air so crairded.

        • Shanreagh 1.2.1.1

          Brilliant. I wonder whether this authority exists elsewhere in the Southern hemisphere other than Aus/NZ?

          Noting the semi medical etymology of aorta I wonder if it has any genetic link to the Moaning Minnie virus that I have long believed came attached to the Covid 19 virus in 2020. wink

          The aorta and shoulda etc seem to be subsets of subsets of moaning being specific kinds of moaning with the complete link being……

          MM virus – political moaning – aorta/shoulda.

          Hopefully someone is doing a linguistics/sociology thesis on this……'The rise, and hopefully fall, of moaning as means of communication' as a title is snappy enough and broad enough. (actually only a little tongue in cheek……moan, moan seems everywhere)

          and

          PS I don't class as moaning a person seeing something and commenting with ideas on why it might have happened and with suggestions for improvement. .

        • joe90 1.2.1.2

          Aorta

          A cousin of Laura Norder and Lauren Forcement

        • Anker 1.2.1.3

          "Jimmy wants something done". Yes AB Jimmy does and so do 24,000 and counting people who have signed a petition that student nurses should get paid while on placement.

          For anyone seriously concerned about the state of the health work force and the plight of student nurses (I have posted previously) please head to change.org and type in student nurses to be paid petition. I would post the link here, but I am not sure if that is allowed.

          As I posted yesterday the NZNO have been calling for this for sometime and are appreciative that Andrew Little is considering it.

          Quote from a link from yesterday from the NZNO. "We are in the middle of a horrific nursing shortage crisis andit seems like a no-brainer that we must do everything possible to attract students into nursing"

          "NZNO has been suggesting paid placements for sometime now and we are frnkly surprized that it has taken so long to even be considered"

          I will try my best to repost the link onto this comment, but no guarantees.
          https://www.nzdoctor.co.nz/article/undoctored/nzno-applauds-paid-placements-says-more-must-urgently-be-done

          • AB 1.2.1.3.1

            Sure Jimmy. There's a lot that needs fixing – no denying it. But why are you so convinced that Mike King is a solution to a part of it? And do you have a theory as to why our mental health is so shite? It would be good to have some plausible conception as to why, rather than spending truckloads doing an imperfect job of patching up after the event.

      • Anker 1.2.2

        Can Mike King apply for funding to staff an in patient unit? I could be wrong about that, but I think funding isn't available for that.

    • Muttonbird 1.3

      Mike King is not far out of an institution himself.

      • SomeNewGuy 1.3.1

        What's wrong with Mike King?

        (Also why am I being moderated out? I'm not saying anything offensive..?)

        • weka 1.3.1.1

          If this is your first comment, all first comments get held back for manual approval to stop spammers and trolls.

          If it’s not your first comment, make sure there are no typos in name or email, must be an exact match to previous comments.

        • Muttonbird 1.3.1.2

          Did you not watch Celebrity Treasure Island, and subsequent interviews?

          • SomeNewGuy 1.3.1.2.1

            No – I am not interested in reality TV (or TV at all) but I respect all the work he's done towards the issue of suicide.

            So what if he was on a shitty TV show – he does amazing work

            • Anker 1.3.1.2.1.1

              SomeNewGuy. 100% re Mike King and the reality tv show. Who cares!

              Mike King has worked tirelessly for mental health and gave his award (?QSM) back in disgust when he saw that not much was changing

          • joe90 1.3.1.2.2

            Mike King aside, mental health services are a shocker.

            But during his comedy career King was a vitriolic prick on stage and a narcissist with an ego the size of Africa offstage and the meltdown he had on TV3's AM over missing out on funding for his vanity project showed everybody just who he is.

            He was ill-mannered, inarticulate, angry, and spent most of the interview hurling insults at people, he called Ashley Bloomfield a nasty little man who is killing our kids, and he looked like he was pissed.

            • SomeNewGuy 1.3.1.2.2.1

              Mental health is something I take seriously and have personally been bounced around many different services. I have seen friends commit suicide in situations that could have been managed better. It is an awful system and Mike King is at least doing something about it.

              I don't know many stand up comics that aren't narcissistic to be honest and who cares. He is trying to make a difference in a very very sensitive and complicated system. And you call it a vanity project?

              • Descendant Of Smith

                Family member's experience in mental health was that many of the nurses avoided doing their jobs and left it to the lower paid staff to do what the nurses should have been doing.

                Was people like my family member that were the ones getting hit and abused and at the same time doing most of the rehabilitation, suicide checks and support.

      • Anker 1.3.2

        What was the point of your comment Muttonbird? Mike King has been very open about have a mental illness. Its whats driven him to try and get help for others through his Gumboat foundation?

        • Jester 1.3.2.1

          Mike King's done more for suicide prevention than Andrew Little that's for sure.

          • psych nurse 1.3.2.1.1

            All Mike King has done is to feed on the angst of the worried well, he wouldn't recognize a serious mental illness until it hit him in the face. As happens.

            • Anker 1.3.2.1.1.1

              psych nurse if your title is your occupation then you would see very seriously ill people indeed. People with schizophrenia and bi polar disorder and also with psychotic depression.

              The worried well is quite an old fashion term and use to be used to diminish other peoples suffering. Major Depressive disorder, anxiety disorders, OCD are pretty darn painful and distressing as too are eating disorders. All have higher rates of suicide than those without a mental illness.

              But if you work in mental health with people who at times need hospitalization, I salute you for your work

    • weka 1.4

      In that five years that Labour have been in power we have had,

      • NZ's first terrorist mass murder
      • a global pandemic
      • everyone now realises that climate change is fucking serious, not going away, and is here now
      • an economic crisis
      • the spread of the housing crisis across the country

      All of those are major stressors, happening on top of an already stressed mental health system.

      Want to look at something really bad? See what happened in Chch after the quakes.

      What we really need is to prevent mental health deterioration. Then we won't need so many extra beds.

  2. RedLogix 2

    Latest Caspian Report that looks at the links between Russian geography and culture:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5hOZ74kij2M

  3. ianmac 3

    Listening and reading again the wisdom of Mr Luxon, I have come to a suspicion.

    By refusing to state much of any policy, he is whetting our appetite. Mid next year policies will appear and we sceptics will fall back in shame as Luxon sweeps the field with fluent well founded policies.

    Actually listening to his delivery this morning on Morning Report he has become a much more fluent assured speaker and if I was a National supporter, I would be saying, "Yeah!"

  4. Reality 4

    Luxon is critical of parents and principals – well where was he over Uffindell's bullying? Did he go on all media outlets saying what bad parents Uffindell must have had, and how bad was the principal of the private school Uffindell attended? No, it was softly, softly and welcome back Sam, all is forgiven, the QC will sort it out with legal terminology.

    While not defending kids breaking the law in various ways, to my mind Uffindell's bullying was shocking. He came from a privileged family, lacking in nothing, was quickly moved on to another private school and an advantaged life from then on. But now Luxon wants ankle bracelets and boot camps for kids from bottom feeder families getting into trouble and should be treated differently to the likes of the well off who will vote National or become one of National's less than upstanding MPs.

    I have formed an impression that Luxon only has time for those who "deserve" generous tax cuts, those who can hire a Mercedes for a very short walk, who own multiple properties, holiday in Hawaii. Has he directed his criticism for well off parents who let their children truant by taking them for mid term holidays?

  5. Reality 5

    Alan, Luxon's "empathy" appears well hidden then. He seems a very cold person to me. The day he self-anointed himself as leader by hiring a Mercedes for a very short journey to Parliament, said a lot about his self-importance and wanting to make a grand entrance, and little understanding of those who walk or bus everyday of their lives.

  6. Poission 6

    RBNZ calls Jumbo size in hike to constrain both general and fiscal inflation.

    Large hole now in Billie Bunters debt driven budget.

    https://www.rbnz.govt.nz/monetary-policy/monetary-policy-decisions

  7. swordfish 7

    .

    Kainga Ora has yet to cancel any tenancies or evict a single tenant since it was instructed to more vigorously employ the law against unruly renters.

    But 113 households have moved voluntarily, about half of which are tenants wanting to get away from disruptive neighbours.

    Close to 6500 complaints about unruly tenants since February

    Kainga Ora yet to evict single tenant | RNZ

    ["unruly" is such a piss-weak weasel word for hours of violent intimidation, vandalism & tresspass throughout the early hours & the inflicting of severe sleep deprivation & stress day after day, night after night, year after year … incidentally, spare me the sanctimonious shit about "wraparound services" … 5 years of "wraparound services" haven't altered the behaviour of the piece of shit nextdoor to my 91 / 92 yo parents one fucking iota … great way, though, for a callous, narcissistic, self-interested professional middle-class to play the role of the morally virtuous while allowing the nightmare situations that they've set up for people like my elderly parents to continue indefinitely … Woke Dogmatists & their fellow-travellers are such spineless little creeps … and like many cowards there’s more than a touch of sadism bubbling away beneath that virtue-signaling veneer]

    • alwyn 7.1

      The "beatings" that you seem to anticipate will probably have to continue until the RBNZ manages to reduce the mad stimulus that Robertson is imposing.

      • Nic the NZer 7.1.1

        Actually, whats going to happen is that the NZ economy will eventually dip and enter recession. That doesn't dictate the path of inflation, which will more or less follow the international trajectory of inflation anyway. At that point the Robertson (or another finance minister, you can pick anyone) will 'add' further stimulus (I quoted add because they don't do anything, its completely automatic).

        If we end up with recession coupled with inflation at this time (and its still Robertson) you'll be bitching about the finance minister causing the inflation. If its Nationals finance minister (Mr Seymour) you'll announce the finance minister had no discretion. That's about all we can say with certainty.

        • alwyn 7.1.1.1

          "which will more or less follow the international trajectory of inflation".

          Why can't we be a little bit more imaginative and instead of following the path of the other lemmings we could follow the path of a country that has some similarity to us in size and openness of the economy.

          Let's be like Switzerland where the inflation rate is about 2.9% at the moment.

          https://www.nzinitiative.org.nz/reports-and-media/opinion/inflation-lessons-from-switzerland/

          • Poission 7.1.1.1.1

            Switzerland has a current account surplus,which lowers rates for borrowing.

            NZ has a double deficit with the current account and budget both in record deficit country,this which is persistent over time means we are always a price taker with interest rates,and exporting $$$ for debt remains one of our largest industries.

            • Nic the NZer 7.1.1.1.1.1

              If your serious about current account deficits, well you go hard or go home.

              NZ implemented a policy during 2020 which actually worked with all the border and import restrictions. Want to actually deal with the current account?Then, block, tariff or restrict imports.

              The rest is just lobbying against public policy and doesn't work reliably in practice on the current account anyway.

              • Poission

                The NZ current account has not been this bad since labour was last in charge,so there is form.

                https://www.interest.co.nz/sites/default/files/2022-09/currac1.png

                The covid policy was also used by other countries such as Taiwan,which does not have either a current account deficit,or high inflation.Using the excess funding that remained for 3 water policy and pork bone policy with infrastructure during a time of high building costs,supply shortages,and high inflation is fiscal irresponsibility.

                There are two notes with NZ on debt watch,with alarms ringing Pullup Pullup,and half the government raking up air miles on overseas junkets.With QT in the US,UK,and Eurozone (starting december) there will be a penalty premium on NZ debt.

                • Nic the NZer

                  Its very odd. Your chart also shows a very low current account during this govt's term as recently as 2020. You claim to find this important but your not advocating for any of the policies at that time which actually worked.

                  You also seem in favour of making the interest rates on NZ investments, especially the ones at the risk free rate, pay higher returns. But you also seem to be expecting this to result in everybody here placing their bets (savings) overseas, and everybody overseas not going for better paying low risk returns.

                  • Poission

                    The policy's for covid (which were actually from the pandemic plan) were in 2020,2021,and were in place to enable vaccination rollouts. Since then with opening up,removal of most constraints,and removal of most funding the death toll increased .

                    The budget and funding moved on from there to increase spending under a regime of high inflation,little or nothing to show for it,that would increase either productivity,efficiency or enable debt decreases.

                    The blowout 3 months into the new budget is an increase in debt of 9 billion dollars in total government borrowings over projection.

                    The current account reduction was 20/21 was due to trade surpluses although debt increased to sustain deficit.

                    • Nic the NZer

                      "The current account reduction was 20/21 was due to trade surpluses"

                      Welcome to the same page, please see 7.1.1.1.1.1, under want to actually deal with the current account. The rest is just a moan fest and will not actually change anything of NZs trade patterns anyway.

                  • Poission

                    The debt blowout on the current account is now real,and payable as is the government borrowings of 219 billion (absolutes).20/21 ca was still on the credit card.

                • observer

                  This is a re-run of the Covid debate, where people look around the globe, ignore 200 countries and cherry-pick one or two.

                  We were then told "be like Sweden/Australia/Singapore/Taiwan". Even China at one point (not surprisingly, that one has disappeared). The country we "should be" changed from week to week, of course.

                  Different topic, same misleading arguments. So now with inflation and the economy, we don't hear "be like UK/USA/EU" or the vast majority of comparable Western democracies. Why not? Because they are worse off, therefore ignored.

                  Simply plucking data on one issue (and overlooking all others) is a phoney rhetorical device, not good faith debate at all.

                  Switzerland? Sure. How about their property laws? That'll shake things up.

                  • Poission

                    Its about living with you means,over the covid period we also had high returns on exports ( dairy and meat)which provided funding for health pharma,without blowing out debt so much.

                    We are borrowing now to sustain government policy ( in a period of low unemployment ) and increasing spending on the credit card in a period of high inflation,increasing interest rates,and fewer willing overseas lenders.

                  • alwyn

                    "country we "should be" changed from week to week".

                    As someone who suggested that we follow Switzerland I think I am allowed to comment on this topic.

                    From the very beginning of the Covid outbreak I suggested that we should follow the example of Taiwan. I never switched from week to week. The reason for Taiwan was they had a senior politician who was an expert in infectious diseases and he pre-prepared a plan and they followed it. We had a Government who just slung a line of bs about how good we were but actually did almost nothing. Why are they resisting an enquiry into what happened if we were so "good"? Because we weren't.

                    I am now advocating that we follow a similar path to Switzerland in economic policy. Why? Because they tend to do things the right way without all the waste and stupidity we are currently exhibiting. Are they always admirable? Of course not, with the particularly spectacular example of their behaviour with Germany around WW2. It doesn't mean that we can't behave like them when they get things right though.

                • pat

                  The debt levels are not the issue per se, and the current account deficit is a signal of our underlying problem….we are too reliant (exposed) to offshore impacts…if our economy were more self reliant we could have greater (though not complete) control of prices…we dont and so we dont.

                  Sadly the argument that the RBNZ is posturing for its own benefit looks to be the case….as it ever was.

          • Nic the NZer 7.1.1.1.2

            You can be a little bit more imaginative all you want. Its called wishful thinking and its pretty wishful of you thinking NZ's inflation is specifically related to NZ's economic policy, rather than what's going on with the world economy.

            Unfortunately its not well recognized that this presents an actual opportunity to free-load. NZ could have sensible public spending policies with less regard for deficits and forcing unemployment and still get the same kinds of inflation outcomes.

          • Incognito 7.1.1.1.3

            Let’s be like Switzerland …

            Let’s not – I don’t want to have to learn yodeling and carry a silly little knife in my pocket.

  8. Adrian 8

    A Christmas wish come true for some of us, Otakaro, the Chch rebuild entity is going to become the reincarnation of the old Ministry of Works. Makes so much sense, keeping the knowledge in house and not rehiring for every new project. Brilliant, maybe they do listen.

  9. Corey Humm 9

    National thinks kids should be treated like adults when it comes to punishment and taxation but not when it comes to voting.

    Its bizarre.

  10. Sabine 10

    A person working in a dairy passed away due to stab wounds received earlier this evening – it started as aggravated assault and is now 'murder' or 'manslaughter'.

    We can stand by and pretend that these ram raids, stabbing sprees, assaults on shopkeepers and their workes are normal and nothing can be done by, but if we do so, we should at least have the decency to admit that these crimes are more then just crimes against buildings, or rich business owners. And that he ones that end up dying more often then not are just some casual or part time workers trying to make an extra dollar.

    A few years ago the dairy in my fringe was attacked a few times, the dairy in my current fringe was attacked three times since xmas day last year. At knife point, at gun point, with bats. Luckily so far no one ever paid that price that the poor worker had to pay tonight.

    • Molly 10.1

      When we criticiss "boot camps" from the opposition, and don't demand effective measures from the current government, we are failing to address this and the cost will continue to get higher.

      It's a poor response to consistently deride calls for "law and order" when providing little of either.

      • Molly 10.1.1

        Herald article posted this morning:

        https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/the-front-page-chris-hipkins-on-gangs-ram-raids-and-new-zealand-feeling-unsafe/6V5B6XDRCRERHFOT24S2VTU5IE/

        Chris Hipkins:

        "“The politics in this space is often very lazy. The National Party’s political approach in this space is very lazy. They haven’t sought to understand what’s going on and what’s actually going to make a difference.”

        He further adds that the notion that Labour is soft on crime doesn’t stack up when viewed in the context of the Government’s systematic targeting of gangs in recent months.

        “There have been over 15,000 criminal charges filed against gang members since Operation Cobalt was started earlier this year and nearly 20,000 infringement offence notices have been issued to gang members. Police are out there very actively policing in that space.”

        But is this enough to encourage the public to feel safe when crime feels so much more visible than it once was? And if the Government isn’t willing to get tough on young offenders, then what exactly are they doing to stop ram raids?"

        • Sabine 10.1.1.1

          No matter what he says about Gangs and the patched up men and boys that work from it will not matter to the person that got stabbed to death at their workplaces yesterday.

          And if the guy that stabbed this worker to death yesterday was a patched up gangmember well i guess then police will file now a charge for homicide. Obviously, that is the only thing that can be done.

  11. Molly 11

    The Herald has published an article regarding the Balenciaga brand photoshoot. The issue of inclusion of bondage gear and references to child pornography being openly pictured with young children in strangely unsettling poses has been discussed on Twitter in the last few days, and a Claytons apology issued.

    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/lifestyle/horror-detail-found-in-creepy-balenciaga-ad-featuring-children/PVFFK7EIX2L5GEG7JNKJUQNAUE/

    One observation not in the article, is that a teddy's eyes have been deliberately changed to perhaps indicate physical abuse, or reflect a known phenomenon of retinal haemorrhage in abused children.

    (For those like me who have little brand knowledge, it is a well-known brand.)

    So, the story continues, with the replacement shoot – post apology:

    https://twitter.com/itsnatlydenise/status/1595301521134354432?s=20&t=AsIrLz4AMBk_nT3QE_g61w

    A fashion photographer has posted an appropriate response to the first:

    https://twitter.com/misanharriman/status/1595213794246098950?s=20&t=AsIrLz4AMBk_nT3QE_g61w

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    No matter how much you read about World War II, there is always more. More suffering, more deprivation, more cruelty beyond belief. And somehow, too, the human capacity to endure.That war keeps pulling me back. Three novels in recent weeks, as well as a book about the aftermath in Europe, ...
    More Than A FeildingBy David Slack
    2 days ago
  • Hamish Rutherford always looks grim these days
    The Prime Minister’s spin doctor Hamish Rutherford used to a lot of fun. We were Twitter buddies back when he was working at The Dominion (later Fairfax); then he went to the NZ Herald as Wellington Business editor, for a wider circulation/better job security (ha!), I guess. There I noticed ...
    The PaepaeBy Peter Aranyi
    3 days ago
  • ROBERT MacCULLOCH: Economics 101 explains why Newshub bankrupted
    Rob MacCulloch writes –  Economics 101 explains why Newshub Bankrupted – it was the fault of its own journalists who should recognize they were the architects of their own demise. A thousand books and papers in economics and business strategy are about the topic of product differentiation – ensuring ...
    Point of OrderBy poonzteam5443
    3 days ago
  • Tone deaf and out of touch Luxon
    ...
    The PaepaeBy Peter Aranyi
    3 days ago
  • Speeches, beers, questionnaires
    Hello! Here comes the Saturday edition of More Than A Feilding, catching you up on the past week’s editions.Friday: Week in review, quiz styleThursday: A speech and a beer, both delivered perfectlySo, what can we do about these deplorable people and the appalling things they are doing?Every time Chlöe Swarbrick ...
    More Than A FeildingBy David Slack
    3 days ago
  • The Hoon around the week to March 2
    Premier House in 2018, when it was the home of then-PM Jacinda Ardern and her family. Luxon preferred living his own apartment and pocketing $1000 a week for doing so. Photo: Lynn GrievesonTL;DR: The five things that mattered in Aotearoa’s political economy that we wrote and spoke about via The ...
    The KakaBy Bernard Hickey
    3 days ago
  • Why Did Child Poverty Increase Recently?
    Not so much from a lack of nominal income but from rising mortgage interest ratesThe just released Statistics New Zealand (SNZ) estimates child poverty for the year ending June 2023 show the proportions of children on nine different poverty measures are higher than they were in the June 2022 ending ...
    PunditBy Brian Easton
    4 days ago
  • C.Money Luxon puts his hand in yer pocket
    1. Which of these things did C.Money Luxon, owner of 7 properties and Keepa of da Mojo not say?a. If I can pay, I should payb. I know how hard you work to pay your taxesc. Under my government the culture of treating taxpayers like an ATM is overd. Look, ...
    More Than A FeildingBy David Slack
    4 days ago
  • BRYCE EDWARDS: NZ’s “media apocalypse” is shifting us into a Public Relations Democracy of di...
    Bryce Edwards writes – Democracy is the loser whenever a major media company disappears. We’ve seen a total consensus about this in the last two days – politicians, academics, and journalists have commented on the demise of Newshub, pointing out that a reduction in journalists reporting on and ...
    Point of OrderBy poonzteam5443
    4 days ago
  • MICHAEL BASSETT: TV One still doesn’t get the message
    Michael Bassett writes – It’s becoming clear that the state-owned TV One and its management have no intention of stopping their left-slanted news presentations despite being reminded by Karl du Fresne and others that using the airwaves to proselytise is improper journalism. Worse, it seems that the new ...
    Point of OrderBy poonzteam5443
    4 days ago
  • Govt is gunning for gangs – but McKee reckons some Firearms Prohibition Orders could be lifted mu...
    Buzz from the Beehive Having sorted out the war criminals and terrorists with a series of foreign affairs announcements yesterday, the government today confirmed its plans to allow police to search gang members, their vehicles and homes at any time using court-authorised firearms prohibition orders (FPOs). The orders – introduced ...
    Point of OrderBy Bob Edlin
    4 days ago
  • What does ‘entitlement’ look like, Chris Luxon?
    Wow. A mortgage free apartment, but he claims ‘accommodation expenses’ (really a taxpayer-funded allowance) of $1,000 per week – on top of his $471,000 pa salary and other benefits, etc etc. The National Party CEO must be so used to the good life, eh? The Prime Minister will receive a ...
    The PaepaeBy Peter Aranyi
    4 days ago
  • ELE LUDEMANN: What’s the cost of slow roads?
    Ele Ludemann writes –  It used to take us an easy hour and a half to get from home to Dunedin. If traffic was light with no hold-ups we could get get there in a little more than an hour and a quarter. That was then, now is a ...
    Point of OrderBy Bob Edlin
    4 days ago
  • How is that News?
    Before we begin today, a word of warning.Some of you might think this newsletter is some old leftie yelling into the internet that things ought to be better. You’d be right.That kindness wasn’t just a slogan that sounded good, and in our limited period of existence it just makes sense ...
    Nick’s KōreroBy Nick Rockel
    4 days ago
  • The Prime Hypocrite
    National's Christopher Luxon unveils trio of fiscal transparency policies, RNZ, 15 May 2023: The government had "abused" taxpayers for the past six years, Luxon said. "I am sick of taxpayers being treated like a bottomless ATM, to be raided at any time, for any reason. National will respect taxpayers ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    4 days ago
  • NZ on Hamas and Zionist Settlers.
    Here is one for the road before I shut down for a while due to the previously mentioned family medical issues. It is about NZ designating Hamas as a terrorist entity, adding its political wing to the 2010 decision to … Continue reading ...
    KiwipoliticoBy Pablo
    4 days ago
  • Migration surge reduced inflation, says Orr
    Record high net migration in 2023 produced a net detraction from inflation because of a surge in labour supply, but the effects may be more inflationary this year. Photo: Lynn Grieveson / The KākāTL;DR: Te Pūtea Matua (Reserve Bank) Governor Adrian Orr told me in an interview yesterday that record ...
    The KakaBy Bernard Hickey
    4 days ago
  • Weekly Roundup 1-March-2024
    Welcome to Friday, and to March, traditionally the busiest month for people trying to get into and around our city. The Northwestern Cycleway has been going gangbusters this week. How’s it looking out there for you, around the rest of the isthmus? Here are some of the articles that caught ...
    Greater AucklandBy Greater Auckland
    4 days ago
  • February AMA
    Hi,As someone generous enough to pay for Webworm — literally allowing this thing to exist — I always want to give you extra stuff (next week a story I’ve been wanting to tell for about eight years) and make myself available to answer any questions.Hence these AMAs, which I really ...
    David FarrierBy David Farrier
    4 days ago
  • Skeptical Science New Research for Week #9 2024
    Open access notables Rockfall from an increasingly unstable mountain slope driven by climate warming, Stoffel et al., Nature Geoscience: Rockfall in high-mountain regions is thought to be changing due to accelerating climate warming and permafrost degradation, possibly resulting in enhanced activity and larger volumes involved in individual falls. Yet the systematic lack ...
    5 days ago
  • Newshub awaits a miracle – but in the meantime its Mātauranga Māori debate has spurred Jerry Coy...
    Emeritus Professor Jerry Coyne, from his base in the United States, may well be oblivious to the furore raised about the state of  the news media in New Zealand – and the implications for our democracy – after TV3’s American owners announced Newshub’s fate.  The news service will be shut ...
    Point of OrderBy Bob Edlin
    5 days ago
  • Correction
    Sorry!!! Today’s edition has the wrong damn link for Chlöe Swarbrick’s excellent speech.This is the right one. Read more ...
    More Than A FeildingBy David Slack
    5 days ago
  • Correction
    Sorry!!! Today’s edition has the wrong damn link for Chlöe Swarbrick’s excellent speech.This is the right one. Read more ...
    More than a fieldingBy David Slack
    5 days ago
  • A speech and a beer, both delivered perfectly
    So, what can we do about these deplorable people and the appalling things they are doing?Every time Chlöe Swarbrick gets to her feet or leans into a mic, she offers a very good  answer. Clear, plain, compelling words. Clear, plain, compelling thinking.Guys, she tells new MPs who have just given maiden ...
    More Than A FeildingBy David Slack
    5 days ago
  • A speech and a beer, both delivered perfectly
    So, what can we do about these deplorable people and the appalling things they are doing?Every time Chlöe Swarbrick gets to her feet or leans into a mic, she offers a very good  answer. Clear, plain, compelling words. Clear, plain, compelling thinking.Guys, she tells new MPs who have just given maiden ...
    More than a fieldingBy David Slack
    5 days ago
  • 2024 Reading Summary: February (+ Writing Update)
    Completed reads for February: Tarzan of the Apes, by E.R. Burroughs The Lost World, by Sir Arthur Conan Doyle The Poison Belt, by Sir Arthur Conan Doyle Struwwelpeter: Merry Stories and Funny Pictures, by Heinrich Hoffman The Moon Hoax, by Richard Adams Locke The Strange Voyage and Adventures of ...
    5 days ago
  • Aoteraoa, Ukraine, and Gaza
    Today the government designated the political wing of Hamas as a terrorist entity, making supporting them a criminal offence. I honestly don't know much about Hamas' organisation, or how involved its politicians were in planning its crimes in October last year, but when Israel is actively carrying out a genocide ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    5 days ago
  • ETS review will be good news (we think) for the forest sector but govt gets tough with Hamas and Isr...
    Buzz from the Beehive When the Luxon government took office last year, forest owners and investors were among the myriads of interest groups who pressed incoming ministers with pleadings, urgings and advice – typically self-serving –  for change. The forestry bunch hoped the new government would give clearer direction on ...
    Point of OrderBy Bob Edlin
    5 days ago
  • Tougher Love.
    "Ullo, ullo, ullo, what's coming off here then?" Mark Mitchell’s Gang Laws are separating the Liberal Sheep from the Authoritarian Goats.  THE INTENSIFYING POLITICAL CONTROVERSY over the Coalition Government’s policy on gangs promises to be one of those sheep-from-goats moments. While the Left will veer instinctively towards the sociological, the Right ...
    5 days ago
  • The Clue Is In The Name.
    Truth In Advertising? The Nats do best when they take the “National” part of their name seriously, WHEN ITS FOUNDERS christened New Zealand’s newest anti-socialist party “National”, they had two objectives. The first was largely cosmetic. The second, and much more important objective, was ideological.In 1936, the year in which ...
    5 days ago
  • Another forced break.
    Well, the time has come yet again for my son to go back into Starship for another major surgery (the fourth in five months). The mass in his chest is growing and has enveloped his left carotid artery as well … Continue reading ...
    KiwipoliticoBy Pablo
    5 days ago
  • BRYCE EDWARDS:  How Wellington City Council got captured by vested interests
    Bryce Edwards writes – Wellington City has become a great case study for those that are suspicious that both local and central government politicians have become enthralled by property developers, the “professional managerial class”, and other vested interests. Politicians from parties of both left and right are increasingly ...
    Point of OrderBy poonzteam5443
    5 days ago
  • Gordon Campbell on the Newshub/Smokefree twin fiascos
    H</spanere’s a tale of two sunset industries. One has a track record of quality investigative reporting, and sound reportage of the 24/7 news cycle. The other sunset industry peddles a deadly substance that kills and injures tens of thousands of New Zealanders every year, while imposing significant annual costs on ...
    5 days ago
  • RBNZ's dovish pivot revives rate cut hopes
    The question now is which hint banks will take: the one from Orr that they pass on rate cuts, or the one from Assistant Governor Karen Silk saying they have some leeway to continue not passing them on. File Photo: Lynn Grieveson / The KākāTL;DR: The Reserve Bank held the ...
    The KakaBy Bernard Hickey
    5 days ago
  • That was Then, This is Now #32 – What's the difference between aluminium and democracy?
    ..Thanks for reading Frankly Speaking ! Subscribe for free to receive new posts and support my work.That was then…Rio Tinto will not reimburse the $30 million Government subsidy it received to keep Tiwai Point open, in spite of posting a $3.7 billion 2013 profit.[…]…if Rio Tinto had closed straightaway and ...
    Frankly SpeakingBy Frank Macskasy
    5 days ago
  • A Market Model for Intercity Rail
    The North Island Main Trunk rail line between Auckland and Wellington is 680km long, mostly electrified, and low speed for intercity rail (80-100kph). It’s a major public asset, but woefully underutilised. How can we work this asset harder, to deliver way more benefits for our country and our people? This ...
    Greater AucklandBy Patrick Reynolds
    5 days ago
  • Redundancies Bite.
    We all knew this government meant redundancies - lots of them. National highlighted they’d be taking a scalpel to government departments, cutting them to the bone. ACT fantasized about going deeper.Thousands losing their jobs in a sector that won’t be hiring any time soon. I could make a joke here ...
    Nick’s KōreroBy Nick Rockel
    5 days ago
  • Tough choices on climate change for new government
    Slowly but inexorably, the country is getting to the point where it is going to have to make some tough choices about actually lowering greenhouse gas emissions rather than planting or buying its way out of them. Prime Minister Christopher Luxon, at the weekend, removed any last hope that climate ...
    PolitikBy Richard Harman
    5 days ago
  • That was Then, This is Now #31 – Urgent for me, but not for thee?
    ..Thanks for reading Frankly Speaking ! Subscribe for free to receive new posts and support my work.That was then…“In Parliament today, Labour was pushed to justify their use of urgency to rush through a Bill to get rid of a public veto on Māori wards, and they couldn’t,” National’s Local ...
    Frankly SpeakingBy Frank Macskasy
    6 days ago
  • Rattus Supermarketicus: Countdown Reopens
    So my infamously rat-infested local supermarket was finally able to re-open today, after spending a good two and a half weeks closed. https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/510363/countdown-dunedin-south-reopens-after-rat-infestation I went in for a look this evening, having heard that they were offering chocolates earlier in the day. I was disappointed. No chocolates. ...
    6 days ago
  • Clearly still no adults in this Chaos Cabinet, aiming to sell Aotearoa off to the highest bidders…
    Grant Roberston has left the Labour team in Parliament, Efeso Collins tragically died at the outset of what was surely to be a stellar career as an MP… a heavy result last year, losses and a tragedy to start this year. That overall sense of tragedy is not limited ...
    exhALANtBy exhalantblog
    6 days ago
  • Productivity Commission gone tomorrow, Māori Health Authority gone in June – so what should we do...
    The Productivity Commission will cease operations tomorrow, to make way for the new Ministry for Regulation. On the same day, the Waitangi Tribunal will begin an urgent inquiry into the government’s proposal to disestablish the Māori Health Authority. But legislation passed under urgency by Parliament will result in the authority being ...
    Point of OrderBy Bob Edlin
    6 days ago
  • QUESTIONNAIRE NEW ZEALAND
    So you want to be a member of this exciting new government, eh? Good thinking! There’s obviously no future in journalism. We’re not just hiring any old comms person though. We want someone with the right attitude and MOJO. So grab a pen and fill out this questionnaire will you? ...
    More Than A FeildingBy David Slack
    6 days ago
  • Another secret OIA “consultation”
    When the previous government decided in 2018 to review the OIA, the Ministry of Justice decided to do the entire thing in secret, planning a "targeted consultation" with a secret, hand-picked group of lawyers, bloggers and commentators. Because obviously, wider civil society has no interest in the operation of the ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    6 days ago
  • Puff! And before you can get through a packet of 20, Parliament will have stubbed out parts of Labo...
    Buzz from the Beehive Health dominated the government’s announcements over the past 24 hour or so, at the same time as Parliament was debating legislation to abolish the Maori Health Authority and repeal parts of the previous government’s planned changes to regulate smoked tobacco. Health Minister Shane Reti brandished a ...
    Point of OrderBy Bob Edlin
    6 days ago
  • Journalism in New Zealand Is Collapsing
    Hi,I was not intending to send out a Webworm today, and I hate that I am having to write about this.After nearly 35 years of broadcasting, the TV newsroom in New Zealand that was my home for about a decade is set to close in June.Some of my closest and ...
    David FarrierBy David Farrier
    6 days ago
  • A revolting breach of Te Tiriti
    In 2019, the Waitangi Tribunal released a preliminary report in the Wai 2575 inquiry, finding pervasive inequities in the New Zealand health system which systematically disadvantaged Māori, in breach of Ti Tiriti O Waitangi. It recommended the creation of an independent Māori Health Authority as one way of remedying these ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    6 days ago
  • Bishop wants house prices to halve vs income
    TL;DR: Housing, Infrastructure and RMA Reform minister Minister Chris Bishop gave the new Government’s most important and ambitious speech of its first 100 days yesterday, pledging to flood cities with land for homes and help give councils new revenue to pay for the water and transport infrastructure needed to build ...
    The KakaBy Bernard Hickey
    6 days ago
  • Lyin' Luxon
    All we want is a touch of truthnot cue-card words for the polling booththis ballhead man and his MacDonalds wisdomselling soap or a new tax systemSo begin the lyrics for the new single, Lyin’ Luxon (and his tobacco goons)”, from Darren Watson - released just this morning. You can check ...
    Nick’s KōreroBy Nick Rockel
    6 days ago
  • Albo gives Luxon a big invite
    Prime Minister Christopher Luxon gets his first big foreign affairs opportunity next week when he travels to Melbourne for the 50th Anniversary of Australia’s partnership with the Association of Southeast Asian Nations (ASEAN). Australian Prime Minister Anthony Albanese has invited the heads of all ten members for a special summit. ...
    PolitikBy Richard Harman
    6 days ago
  • Of Mining Interests and the West Coast-Tasman Result: Look at the Split Vote
    The various New Zealand election donations have been disclosed, and one Jonathan Milne has noticed the role of mining interests in backing an independent candidate on the West Coast: https://newsroom.co.nz/2024/02/23/big-coal-company-bought-west-coast-election-campaign/ The article goes on to suggest that the independent candidate’s performance – garnering some 5903 votes – was key ...
    7 days ago
  • At a glance – Is Greenland gaining or losing ice?
    On February 14, 2023 we announced our Rebuttal Update Project. This included an ask for feedback about the added "At a glance" section in the updated basic rebuttal versions. This weekly blog post series highlights this new section of one of the updated basic rebuttal versions and serves as a ...
    7 days ago
  • Dark money has entered the New Zealand electoral scene at unprecedented levels
    Radio NZ’s Farah Hancock has analysed the Electoral Commission returns of money paid to influence the 2023 NZ General Election. Her article $2m surge in election campaign spending by third-party groups (RNZ) shows that as well as the huge donations-directly-to-the-parties imbalance, previously reported, a large amount of untraceable dark money ...
    The PaepaeBy Peter Aranyi
    7 days ago
  • I remember better days
    The school property system is BORDERING ON CRISIS according to the Prime Minister and his Education Minister.Same old crisis panic button. God only knows what they’ll press when they get a real one.The self-serving agenda here is pretty transparent: Find ourselves an out for not delivering what people expect us ...
    More Than A FeildingBy David Slack
    7 days ago
  • No, it isn’t a surprise – the government is disestablishing the Māori Health Authority (just a...
    Latest from the Beehive The mainstream news media have been grimly auguring this news for  the past few days under headings such as… Axing Māori Health Authority before hearing ‘disrespectful’ — expert (One News); Coalition Government to forge ahead with repeal of smokefree laws, Māori Health Authority this week ...
    Point of OrderBy Bob Edlin
    7 days ago
  • BRYCE EDWARDS: NZ elections are being Americanised with “dark money” flowing into campaign grou...
    Bryce Edwards writes –  Elections in the United States are dominated by big money. But what isn’t commonly understood is that most of it is raised and spent, not by the political parties and candidates for office, but by special interest groups who run their own election campaigns to ...
    Point of OrderBy poonzteam5443
    7 days ago

  • GPS 2024: Investing in reliable public transport
    Transport Minister Simeon Brown has confirmed targeted investment of more than $2 billion over the next three years for public transport projects and services, as part of the draft Government Policy Statement (GPS) on Land Transport.  “Delivering reliable, effective, and efficient public transport is a priority for the Coalition Government. The ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    20 hours ago
  • GPS 2024: Keeping New Zealanders safer on our roads
    The Coalition Government will keep New Zealanders safe on our roads with a stronger focus on road policing and enforcement, investment in new and safe roading infrastructure, and targeting the leading contributors to fatal crashes, Transport Minister Simeon Brown says.  “The draft Government Policy Statement (GPS) on Land Transport outlines ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    20 hours ago
  • GPS 2024: Keeping New Zealanders safer on our roads
    The Coalition Government will keep New Zealanders safe on our roads with a stronger focus on road policing and enforcement, investment in new and safe roading infrastructure, and targeting the leading contributors to fatal crashes, Transport Minister Simeon Brown says.  “The draft Government Policy Statement (GPS) on Land Transport outlines ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    20 hours ago
  • GPS 2024: 15 new Roads of National Significance
    The Coalition Government’s priority for investment in the draft Government Policy Statement (GPS) on Land Transport is to support economic growth and productivity and ensure our land transport system allows people and freight to move quickly and safely, Transport Minister Simeon Brown says.  “Delivering on commitments in our Coalition Agreements, ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    20 hours ago
  • GPS 2024: 15 new Roads of National Significance
    The Coalition Government’s priority for investment in the draft Government Policy Statement (GPS) on Land Transport is to support economic growth and productivity and ensure our land transport system allows people and freight to move quickly and safely, Transport Minister Simeon Brown says.  “Delivering on commitments in our Coalition Agreements, ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    20 hours ago
  • GPS 2024: New $500 million Pothole Prevention Fund
    The Coalition Government will increase investment in road maintenance, including establishing a new $500 million Pothole Prevention Fund to tackle the record number of potholes on our roads, Transport Minister Simeon Brown says. “The draft Government Policy Statement (GPS) on Land Transport changes the way we invest in road maintenance, ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    20 hours ago
  • GPS 2024: New $500 million Pothole Prevention Fund
    The Coalition Government will increase investment in road maintenance, including establishing a new $500 million Pothole Prevention Fund to tackle the record number of potholes on our roads, Transport Minister Simeon Brown says. “The draft Government Policy Statement (GPS) on Land Transport changes the way we invest in road maintenance, ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    20 hours ago
  • GPS 2024: Over $20 billion to get transport back on track
    Transport Minister Simeon Brown has released the draft Government Policy Statement (GPS) on Land Transport, outlining the Coalition Government’s plan to build and maintain a transport system that enables people to get to where they need to go quickly and safely.  “Over the next three years, our investment of around ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    20 hours ago
  • GPS 2024: Over $20 billion to get transport back on track
    Transport Minister Simeon Brown has released the draft Government Policy Statement (GPS) on Land Transport, outlining the Coalition Government’s plan to build and maintain a transport system that enables people to get to where they need to go quickly and safely.  “Over the next three years, our investment of around ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    20 hours ago
  • Remand prisoners to receive rehabilitation support
    The coalition Government has taken the first steps to ensure prisoners on remand can access the rehabilitation and reintegration support they need to turn their lives around, says Corrections Minister Mark Mitchell.   “The number of people on remand has increased by 146 per cent over the past 10 years. With ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago
  • Ongoing security plan will help keep hospital EDs safe
    Health Minister Dr Shane Reti says a continuation of increased security measures at eight key hospitals around New Zealand reflects the Government’s ongoing commitment to the safety of healthcare staff, and patients. “I’m very pleased Health NZ – Te Whatu Ora have been able to confirm that additional security support ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago
  • Government supports safer digital transactions
    The Government supports the recommendations of the Finance and Expenditure Committee reports on bank scam processes, Commerce and Consumer Affairs Minister Andrew Bayly says. “Scams are becoming more sophisticated and causing a growing number of vulnerable Kiwis significant emotional harm and financial loss. “Altogether, nearly $200 million was lost to ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago
  • Government congratulates JPs on centenary
    Associate Minister of Justice Nicole McKee has extended her congratulations to the Royal Federation of New Zealand Justices’ Associations on its centenary this year. The occasion is being celebrated at the Federation’s annual AGM and Conference, which opens in Wellington today.  “Justices of the Peace (JPs) play a vital role ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago
  • Government going after gangs’ guns with FPOs
    The Government is continuing its work to restore law and order, announcing new measures that will enable police to crack down on gangs through Firearms Prohibition Orders (FPOs).  “Firearms are being illegally used by gangs to intimidate, to commit violent crime in support of their profit making, and to initiate ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago
  • Open ocean salmon farm a win for the economy
    The final approval of New Zealand King Salmon’s Blue Endeavour open ocean aquaculture project is a significant step for New Zealand’s aquaculture, and a win for the economy, Oceans and Fisheries Minister Shane Jones says.  “Blue Endeavour will be the first open ocean aquaculture salmon farm in New Zealand. It’s ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago
  • NZ – UAE trade agreement consultation begins
    Following a meeting with UAE Trade Minister Dr. Thani bin Ahmed Al Zeyoudi at the WTO Ministerial Conference in Abu Dhabi, Trade Minister Todd McClay has launched public consultation for a trade agreement between New Zealand and the United Arab Emirates (UAE).   “The UAE is a top-20 export market for ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • Minister thanks Public Service Commissioner
    Public Service Minister Nicola Willis has thanked retiring Public Service Commissioner Peter Hughes for his 43 years of service. Mr Hughes retires today, after serving eight years as Public Service Commissioner.  “Peter Hughes is an outstanding public servant who has served many governments, regardless of their political leaning, with professionalism and ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • Tourism data shows determination of sector
    New tourism data out today shows the continued importance of tourism to the New Zealand economy as tourism steps up to become our second-biggest export earner, Tourism Minister Matt Doocey says. “The Tourism Satellite Account shows how strongly tourism rebounded post-pandemic with total tourism expenditure in New Zealand of $37.7b ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • Housing Minister thanks outgoing Kāinga Ora Chair
    Housing Minister Chris Bishop has today thanked outgoing Kāinga Ora – Homes & Communities Chair Vui Mark Gosche for his many years of public service. “Mr Gosche tendered his resignation as Chair yesterday evening. He will remain a member of the Board until the end of March,” says Housing Minister ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • New sanctions package against Russia
    Foreign Minister Winston Peters today announced a new package of sanctions as part of the ongoing international sanction response to Russia’s illegal invasion of Ukraine in February 2022.   The new sanctions are:   Implementation of the G7-plus price cap on Russian-origin oil; making explicit the prohibition on exporting restricted ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • Travel bans on extremist Israeli settlers
    Prime Minister Christopher Luxon and Foreign Minister Winston Peters have announced travel bans on a number of extremist Israeli settlers who have committed violent attacks against Palestinians in the West Bank.   “New Zealand is seriously concerned by the significant increase in extremist violence perpetrated by Israeli settlers against Palestinian populations in recent months. This is ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • NZ designates entirety of Hamas as terrorist entity
    Prime Minister Christopher Luxon and Foreign Minister Winston Peters have announced today the designation of Hamas in its entirety as a terrorist entity.   “The terrorist attacks by Hamas in October 2023 were brutal and we have unequivocally condemned them,” Mr Luxon says.    Following these attacks, then Prime Minister Chris Hipkins commissioned advice from officials about designating the ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • Government announces independent review of forestry ETS costs
    Forestry Minister Todd McClay has today announced an independent review into the forestry component of the Emissions Trading Scheme (ETS) Register to ensure it is efficient and cost-effective. “Up and down the country forestry owners have been raising concerns about the excessive costs that have been imposed upon them by ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • Access barriers to PET-CT scans removed
    New Zealanders now have the same access to PET-CT scans no matter where they live, Health Minister Dr Shane Reti says. Health New Zealand - Te Whatu Ora has approved funding an updated national set of criteria that will allow for about 1,000 more PET-CT scans a year to be ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
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  • Air New Zealand and Singapore Airlines’ alliance extended
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