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Open mike 24/01/2023

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, January 24th, 2023 - 71 comments
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71 comments on “Open mike 24/01/2023 ”

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  1. Francesca 1
    24 January 2023 at 7:13 am

    A rather sobering article on the industrialisation of food production .While it has helped to end hunger and feed millions, it could very well end up killing us all through degradation of the environment and very poor nutritional qualities in the food thus produced.

    Notable is the homogenisation of culture brought about by globalisation .Sorry , clunky writing …lack of sleep..

    The article is worth reading

    https://www.theguardian.com/food/2023/jan/23/endangered-foods-why-our-diet-is-narrower-than-ever-and-these-seven-foods-urgently-need-saving

  2. Joe90 2
    24 January 2023 at 8:11 am

    The washing machine thieves hit a new low.

    /

    Russian occupiers have taken away all the equipment from Skadovsk Central Hospital in Kherson Oblast.

    https://www.yahoo.com/news/russians-loot-hospital-skadovsk-140602238.html

  3. Francesca 3
    24 January 2023 at 8:33 am

    Kind of stuff that may become more prevalent and more dangerous with truckloads of weapons available ex Ukraine available on the black market

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/jan/23/five-charged-over-second-far-right-plot-to-overthrow-german-government

  4. Joe90 4
    24 January 2023 at 9:06 am

    Under tories everywhere fiddle everything.

    .

    Tory seats have been awarded significantly more money per person from the government’s £4bn levelling up fund than areas with similar levels of deprivation, a Guardian analysis has found.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/jan/19/tory-seats-gain-more-4bn-levelling-up-fund-finds-analysis

    The multibillion-dollar grants system used by MPs and federal ministers has become so politicised that Coalition-held seats around the country received more than $1.9 billion over three years while Labor electorates got just under $530 million.

    A special analysis of more than 19,000 individual grants shows huge discrepancies among the nation’s 151 electorates, with a boundary line such as a road or a creek separating communities from potentially millions of dollars.

    https://www.smh.com.au/interactive/2021/electorates-government-grants/

    • Shanreagh 4.1
      24 January 2023 at 11:03 am

      Sounds this has a similarity to the rotten boroughs of English history.

      'rotten borough, depopulated election district that retains its original representation. The term was first applied by English parliamentary reformers of the early 19th century to such constituencies maintained by the crown or by an aristocratic patron to control seats in the House of Commons."

      https://www.britannica.com/topic/rotten-borough

    • Bearded Git 4.2
      24 January 2023 at 11:04 pm

      Well done the Guardian. I heard these figures reported on the BBC the other day (BBC 5 Live radio).

      The BBC political reporter entirely ignored the significance. Terrible bias.

  5. Roy cartland 5
    24 January 2023 at 9:08 am

    I know I'm guilty of moaning about Bomber at TDB's writing style, but when he's lucid, he can make a lot of sense.

    If you skip the ranty intro, these ideas seem pretty good:

    https://thedailyblog.co.nz/2023/01/24/how-chippy-wins-2023-election/

    • Sabine 5.1
      24 January 2023 at 10:36 am

      These ideas were good ten years ago, 7 years ago, 5 years ago and certainly 2.5 years ago. If the Labour party under Jacinda Arderns Leadership would have actually implemented just 'a' thing or 'two' of that list, like 'remove GST from Food', remove the relationship status out when people apply for unemployment or benefits, the removal of secondary tax on people who have more then one job to make ends meet etc etc etc- which has been discussed here many many times Labour might not have had a change in leadership and Labour as a Party would poll better then it seemingly does.

      The problem for the new leadership now is that if they 'dump' three waters and the merger and promise to say remove GST from Food no one other then the party faithful who would/will vote for Labour no matter the leadership will support them.

      Empty promises and bubbles of air feed no one, house no one, pays no ones bills. From we can do this, to lets keep moving, to where to now?

      2.5 years of a full majority totally and absolutely squandered. And now back to 'please do this' and they will not because in the end they are ideologically not able to do so.

      • Alan 5.1.1
        24 January 2023 at 11:35 am

        Chippy is between a rock and a hard place.

        • Sabine 5.1.1.1
          24 January 2023 at 12:43 pm

          He is there on his own choosing.

          He was always at the right hand of Jacinda Ardern. He was part of her government. And he now can't really run from that Government and what they did not do. And that includes him.

          So really if he wants to set himself up as his own person, he will have to start doing as promises are no longer believable.

          • Alan 5.1.1.1.1
            24 January 2023 at 12:56 pm

            He is in a very difficult position, a significant part of his caucus is hell bent on driving through everything on Jacinda's agenda and the rest want to stay in government, good luck managing that.

            • Incognito 5.1.1.1.1.1
              24 January 2023 at 8:45 pm

              In your dreams! So far, the Labour Caucus has shown nothing but positivity and unified support for Hipkins. The divisive and fractious lot is looking at you, every morning.

      • James Thrace 5.1.2
        24 January 2023 at 5:41 pm

        Secondary tax has been removed with the tax codes now much more reflective of the current earning rates. That took effect a few years ago.

        However, the downside is that people now working more than 1 job may potentially end up with a tax bill at the end of the year given that tax is based on the total annual earnings and tax is deducted accordingly. Under the old secondary system, most people often ended up with a refund at the end of the year, well that which wasnt first taken out by the tax intermediaries like Woohoo.

        anyway, secondary tax is gone. Tax codes are “fairer”, but greater risk now of ending up with a tax bill rather than a refund.

        • Craig H 5.1.2.1
          24 January 2023 at 7:26 pm

          Nothing changed there – I used to work for IRD in 2012-13, and secondary codes worked the same then as they do now right down to the brackets. The big "change" was that special tax codes were renamed tailored tax codes and pushed harder.

        • Sabine 5.1.2.2
          25 January 2023 at 9:46 am

          T'is funny cause IRD says that:

          If you have more than one source of income you use a secondary tax code for your other income.27/09/2021

          Tax codes for individuals – Inland Revenue

          Can you link to where it says that secondary tax is gone?

    • weka 5.2
      24 January 2023 at 11:33 am

      Chippy represents economic justice over social justice and he has a lot to do.

      What's the evidence for this?

      • roy cartland 5.2.1
        24 January 2023 at 11:46 am

        I'm not sure either, maybe just Bomber's reckonz. I'd skim past the rant and go straight to the ideas.

        • weka 5.2.1.1
          24 January 2023 at 12:58 pm

          fair point. I might see if I can throw up a post with just the ideas in it. Some of them seem reasonable, some seem daft, mostly they seem unexplained. Also, 3 waters is really about the drains? Wut?

    • Bearded Git 5.3
      24 January 2023 at 11:14 pm

      An FTT hits poor as well as rich. A Wealth Tax or a Land Tax would be better.

      Smashing the supermarket duopoly is pretty damn hard in a small country like NZ where Aldi and Lidl have no intention of coming here.

  6. joe90 6
    24 January 2023 at 11:24 am

    Tory scum were complicit in an attempt to silence Higgins and Bellingcat for their work in exposing Russian war crimes.

    .

    The UK government helped the boss of Russia’s murderous mercenary army to circumvent its own sanctions and launch a targeted legal attack on a British journalist, openDemocracy can reveal.

    Yevgeny Prigozhin is the founder of Wagner, a private army that the US government last week announced it would designate a “transnational criminal organisation”, allowing it to impose even tougher sanctions on the group. For years it has been accused of human rights abuses and war crimes in Ukraine and across the world in support of Putin’s regime.

    Sanctions introduced in the UK and Europe in 2020 were supposed to prevent anyone from doing business with Prigozhin. He had also been sanctioned in the US in 2018.

    But a vast cache of hacked emails shows that, under the leadership of Rishi Sunak, the UK Treasury issued special licences in 2021 to let the oligarch override sanctions and launch an aggressive legal campaign against a journalist in the London courts.

    https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/prigozhin-government-russia-ukraine-hack-libel-slapp/

  7. weka 7
    24 January 2023 at 12:21 pm

    I started an ongoing twitter thread on how many NZ food growers are regenag. If you have any examples, please let me know along with the location (am trying to prove that every area of NZ now has regenag)

    https://twitter.com/wekatweets/status/1617656178988961793

    • Francesca 7.1
      24 January 2023 at 1:36 pm

      Damien O'Connor has been very pro active in promoting the rural area I live in in the SI as a regen agriculture region, known for its progressive ecological approach to farming and food production .

      We have dairy farmers who have reduced stocking rates, experimenting with different pasture species..back to clover..planted up waterways, local specialist cheese making .Even a fabulous bakery growing its own grain and supplying the local market with gorgeous sourdough breads

      There is a learning centre for residential permaculture courses, the local community gardens also run well attended courses on organic food production.

      A few reasonable size organic market gardens., supplying local families with boxes of vegetables each week

      Our local US born millionaire (every community has one) is working with scientists to develop ways of reducing methane via seaweed

    • joe90 8.1
      24 January 2023 at 2:20 pm

      One of the attendees fought back tears. “Two-thirds of these apartments are singles or studios which means bedroom commuters who are not going to be a part of this community or have any connection,” she said.

      “I love this f…ing village with all my heart and I don’t want to see it change.”

      […]

      A woman in the crowd said she had been used to seeing the same houses on her daily commute and didn’t want the area to change.

      “Can’t they build on green land that’s 10 minutes up the motorway? I don’t understand why they’re coming to Beach Haven, we’re not an apartment community,” she said.

      Crispin Robertson, who organised the meeting, was also concerned that the area wasn’t right for young singles.

      “There’s no supermarket or café here for them,” he said.

      Nimbyest nimbys ever.

      • Visubversa 8.1.1
        24 January 2023 at 3:48 pm

        Some of those "old farts" might end up in one of those singles apartments towards that later part of their lives when they can no longer maintain a 3br house on a big section, but don't want to go into a 'senior's village".

        Apartments are useful to people at many stages of their lives.

        • bwaghorn 8.1.1.1
          24 January 2023 at 5:05 pm

          Apartments in the area would lead to a ready supply of young coupled up buyers wanting the bigger house,after a few years I'd expect ,that's if they still want to live in a place full of tossers

    • Bearded Git 8.2
      24 January 2023 at 11:17 pm

      National bodies support intensification….the proposed development is a good example of this.

      Failing to intensify will mean residences sprawling all over the landscape in a non-sustainable manner.

  9. Chris 9
    24 January 2023 at 1:27 pm

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/300790925/live-divisive-and-immature-conversation-christopher-luxon-takes-on-cogovernance-in-rtana-speech

    Utter drivel spewing from Luxon's mouth. Sad to know it's likely going to win him the election. But good too, because it will wake us up to a more accurate account of what we're really up against.

    • x Socialist 9.1
      25 January 2023 at 11:08 am

      That you call it drivel spewing from Luxon's mouth is a non issue. But when fools like Carmel Sepuloni start talking about racism and misogyny, then Labour has an issue. Labour has been given a reprieve of sorts with Hipkins now the PM, but there seems to have been little learnt.

      All Luxon said was basically there had not been a discussion around co governance and National did not support it.

      [banned until 31/12/23. You’ve been warned multiple times including yesterday when I said you were on your last warning. This isn’t the place for inflammatory vague reckons. If you want to make an argument about MPs in an election year, you have to make the actual argument as well as support it with evidence. Here you are making casual assertions that require someone to follow up and the mods are no longer willing to waste our time on this when you’ve had plenty of chances – weka]

  11. Molly 11
    24 January 2023 at 3:23 pm

    The "progressive" solution in Canada:

    1, Inaccurately identify a problem;

    2. Solve by divisive means.

    https://nac-cna.ca/en/stories/story/black-out-nac

    "A Black Out is an open invitation to Black Audiences to come and experience performances with their community. The evenings will provide a dedicated space for Black theatregoers to witness a show that reflects the vivid kaleidoscope that is the Black experience.

    The following Black Out NAC will be the second curated play from BTW, Cheryl Foggo’s Heaven on May 5 in the Azrieli Studio. Black Out nights will be an ongoing engagement initiative, as NAC English Theatre plans to schedule more for the 2023-2024 season.

    Creating evenings dedicated to Black theatregoers will allow for conversation and participation to be felt throughout the theatre and open the doors for Black-identifying audiences to experience the energy of the NAC with a shared sense of belonging and passion."

    Is there nobody in such organisations pointing out the inherent racism? Or is funding linked to such promotions?

    • weka 11.1
      24 January 2023 at 4:50 pm

      1, Inaccurately identify a problem;

      which is? It's not immediately obvious what you mean

      2. Solve by divisive means.

      Would you argue against women's theatre and women-only audience?

      Is there nobody in such organisations pointing out the inherent racism?

      Please explain the inherent racism, as again, it's not immediately obvious what you mean.

      • Molly 11.1.1
        24 January 2023 at 9:32 pm

        What is the racism problem they are solving here? Are Black Audience members unable to attend, or unsafe if they do? If not, why treat them like they are?

        The inherent racism is:

        1. Assuming that "Black Audiences" are unwilling or uncomfortable with theatre attendance because of the presence of non-black audience members,

        2. That the "Black Audience" members all experience racism, and in the same way,

        3. That "Black Audience" members do not have relationships outside of the "black audience" that they might want to socialise with,

        4. … too demoralised to continue…

        (BTW, this is not equatable to single-sex spaces. Women's spaces exist because of biological reality, and the statistical risk assessments that are there for safety, privacy and dignity.)

        This is divisive, and both patronising and offensive. Segregation being excused as for all the "right reasons".

        • weka 11.1.1.1
          24 January 2023 at 10:37 pm

          I can't see how you got to this being about solving racism, nor why you think any assumptions are being made about any of the numbered points (seriously, there's nothing in the article to suggest any of that). To me it looks much more like celebrating blackness.

          A Black Out is an open invitation to Black Audiences to come and experience performances with their community. The evenings will provide a dedicated space for Black theatregoers to witness a show that reflects the vivid kaleidoscope that is the Black experience.

          Women's spaces aren't solely about safety, privacy and dignity. Some women come together because of women's culture as a positive force. Lesbians used to have lesbian only spaces because they wanted to be with other lesbians. I've been in lot of different kinds of women's groups because there is a different energy and kaupapa that arises when women get together without men. This is a big part of why many women don't want trans identified males in their spaces, because it changes how groups function.

          There's nothing wrong with segregation when people are doing it by choice, in this case Black people. And it doesn't harm non-black people to not go to the Black Out, any more than it harms trans women to not go to a women's conscious raising group. Or Pākehā not to be on the committee running a Marae.

          Black people have the right to come together on their own terms and celebrate or engage with their culture as they choose. You say it is divisive, patronising and offensive, but you haven't explained this other than saying you believe it's all about racism even though they're not talking about racism. But even that doesn't explain the offense.

          • Molly 11.1.1.1.1
            24 January 2023 at 10:49 pm

            "Black people have the right to come together on their own terms and celebrate or engage with their culture as they choose. "

            I understand you don't see it. Even as you excuse it.

            This is not the same as women's spaces. Please don't conflate the two issues.

            • weka 11.1.1.1.1.1
              24 January 2023 at 11:06 pm

              I understand you don't see it. Even as you excuse it.

              That's a non-sequitur to the quote that precedes it, so I don't know what your point is or what you are referring to.

              I'm not conflating women's spaces with black spaces, I'm saying that many groups of people can gather on their own terms without it being a bad thing, including women and black people.

              You haven't explained how it's a bad thing for black people to have their own space, nor why it's ok for women but not black people. I did explain that women gather on their own for cultural reasons (women's culture), but you haven't offered any response to that, just told me what to not argue.

              • Molly …
                25 January 2023 at 10:38 am

                Weka, as you are aware, the single-space provisions for women that women are trying to protect are those where boundaries have been created – due to the biological realities of a female body. ie. sport, prison estates, toilets, hospital wards, changing facilities etc.

                On top of that is collective groups of people – not government funded – who gather together because of shared interests, and do so on the basis of those interests. Lesbians – no longer are able to do so in Australia – and should be able to create those safe spaces for themselves, but this differs in that it is a group of people with shared interests coming together for themselves. Not a national theatre – funded by all.

                The Vagina Monologues is an example. I don't recall it being advertised only to women, but the audience self-selected, and was mainly older women to whom it appealed.

                (I'm more critical of this type of accommodation, because I consider the same unthinking actions taking place here. The creation of a Māori perspective and experience that pays no heed to reality or diversity.)

            • weka 11.1.1.1.1.2
              24 January 2023 at 11:11 pm

              to put it another way, I'm asking you to explain your thinking more. eg, I can't see how you got to the Black Out being about solving racism. Can you please explain that?

              • Molly …
                25 January 2023 at 9:51 am

                What do you consider a good reason to divide an audience by race at a National theatre?

                Whatever your answer is, it relates to a created idea of a "Black audience".

                This created idea of assumed interests, needs, experiences, aspirations, achievements, social and familial connections is a mirage. People are much more diverse,

                Put on more plays written from the wider perspectives of society, and welcome everyone in.

                • weka …
                  26 January 2023 at 6:05 pm

                  I think the Black Americans (in this case) can decide for themselves what works for them (in the same way women can). There is nothing in the article that even hints that all Black people would be served by this or want it, or that they somehow wouldn't want to also attend theatre of other kinds. Nothing.

                  Put on more plays written from the wider perspectives of society, and welcome everyone in.

                  what are wider perspectives of society? Don't we already have this?

      • tWiggle 11.1.2
        26 January 2023 at 5:52 pm

        Looking at the original text, the argument of exclusion depends on the word 'dedicated' , which is not the same as 'exclusive' or ‘only-for’. It could mean 'focussed', for example. It could mean striving for a safe place where difficult topics can be discussed without generating a twitter storm. The pudding is in the eating – who is let in the door. Who turns up determined to cause a fuss.

    • CAnker the pig fucker 11.2
      24 January 2023 at 10:31 pm

      Chris Trotter was interviewed (I forget what I was listening too). And he was talking about the divisiveness of cogovernance, Hepuapua etc.

      He then told a story about WW11 and a Navy boat birthing in South Africa. White sailors were told they could go ashore. Maori not. So none of the white sailors went ashore. One of my relatives (Pakeha) was on that boat. I was so proud of him. This is what unity is. Not these divisive race policies, largely born out of CRT

      • weka 11.2.1
        24 January 2023 at 10:52 pm

        Do you mean that Black people, or Māori, should never have their own spaces? Because that's what it sounds like you just said. If Black Out theatre is wrong, is it wrong to have Marae? Or the Māori caucus in the Labour Party. Or the Māori seats in the general election.

        Black people having their own theatre sometimes don't preclude also working or being in solidarity with people of euro descent.

        • Molly 11.2.1.1
          25 January 2023 at 10:47 am

          A marae that didn't include my non-Māori partner on that basis, would be one I would also be critical of. Definitely wouldn't attend or support it.

          Eventually, the time for the Māori caucas, and the Māori seats in the General election will be gone. Those spaces – even now – are not representative of the diverse view of Māori or of how a Māori world view is effectively accommodated in our governance. Many Māori have the same criticism of their "representatives" as non-Māori do of theirs. But those criticisms are ignored – because it is easy to accommodate the views expressed by the members of the Māori caucus, or the Māori Party, rather than canvas the views of all Māori.

  12. Sabine 12
    24 January 2023 at 4:15 pm

    segregation is great again!

    • weka 12.1
      24 January 2023 at 4:51 pm

      women can female spaces but black people can't have black spaces? What about Māori, is it ok for Māori to have their own spaces and organisations?

      • Sabine 12.1.1
        24 January 2023 at 9:34 pm

        Maori in NZ have their orgs and spaces. And black people in the US have their orgs, spaces and businesses, some even are billionaires. So that is not the question and that is not what i am commenting on.

        Segregating people by sex is not quite the same as segregating people by color. We all have one of two sexes. A black woman is a woman first and foremost, even though that i have seen it stated that if black females are women so are the males who think that they are women. . But that is a logic that is somewhat racist.

        I would totally segregate certain spaces by sex, as no female has ever impregnated a fellow female, nor are the myriads of issues with rape among female, or common assault or or or. The ethnicity or skin color of women does not come into play with that.

        Black theatre has always existed. As has black music, black fashion, black food etc etc etc. In fact black art was/is hugely influential in modern art that came out of the white culture in the US/Europe. It was segregated before, but then came the 60 and that changed somewhat and i would argue we are able to have this discussion today because people actually lived, worked, and went to theatres together rather then in our own little gated communities governed by race.

        I am conflicted about that easy passing segregation such as that. I would be equally conflicted if some white people would decide to have a white theatre production/venue – for white people only for the same reasons. Would we be able to discuss the need of young white people to just be among themselves and to share a sense of belonging and passion? Or would we call it racism? Racial Bias? etc?

        And in the US there are many other times where they have these 'black people only' events on campus and public schools. I don't think it is good. I can understand the attraction, and the immediate benefits, but what if this is just a start and we suddenly find us again in a time where we go into our own gated by color of our skin communities being afraid of the other.

        I am conflicted about that. I am not about segregation of the sexes. I have more in common with a female from Africa then i have in common with a white bloke from Europe/NZ.

        • weka 12.1.1.1
          24 January 2023 at 11:00 pm

          Plenty of Māori or Black women will say they are Māori or Black first, before their femaleness.

          Black Out isn't equivalent to us all living in our own segregated communities. It's an event, not a politically imposed segregation backed up by the forces of the state.

          Regarding white people having their own spaces, two things. One is that white people belong to the dominant culture and often get their own spaces or things by default. But beyond that, sure, why not? Where it can be done in a non racist way.The problem we face is that we probably don’t know how to do that in a non-racist way.

          Here's an example though. Why is it ok for women to have women's spaces that aren't about safety, privacy and dignity, but men aren't allowed the same? eg men's clubs. It's because as the power holder in society men used men's clubs to organise society and retain their power advantage. The only way to change that was to force them to admit women. But there's nothing inherently wrong with men wanting to spend time with men, hence men's sheds, men's groups and so on.

          Segregation in the US up until the 50s and 60s was wrong because it was based in a system that deemed people of African descent to be inferior and have less rights than white people. The Black Out theatre isn't a reverse image of that, it's something different entirely, it's a cultural celebration or expression that comes about by choice.

          • Sabine 12.1.1.1.1
            25 January 2023 at 9:11 am

            As i said, I am just uncomfortable with self segregation what that is. And in the end, every tiny little bit of self segregation will and can eventually lead to the building of Ghettos. I am still of the mind that racism can only be defeated by sharing. Sharing culture, food, music, theatre, literature etc etc etc. Once we close the gate on those that may be interested we no longer serve the public. We serve a small lobby. And that always leads to isolation.

            As for men having hospitals wards for males- totally for it, having prison cells for males – totally for it, having sports just for males – absolutely, having old folks home just for males, ditto, showers in swimming pools – yes, swimming hours just for men, why yes, Mensheds sponsored by government to help isolated males find a community and help with mental health, bring it, And you know what, they all have that already, and i doubt that they are scared of the 1.55 m female with a beard who needs to take a piss in the mens as otherwise their self identiy does not give some decent boost of euphoria.

            I never was needy when it comes to private clubs of males, i always thought that the females should create their own places, but alas, the few that were created at least for the working class women – are now legally forced to admit males irrespective of the males ethnicity or color and in many cases are run by male. A certain womens club in the Green Party of Scotland comes to mind.

            The issue with academic feminists is that they never know when it is enough.

            Working class women that actually live in cramped places and have to share scarce resources i.e. toilets with males know what places they NEED segregated for their safety. And that is segregation by sex, not be creed, race, ethnicity.

            Dignity and respect well that is a nice to have, but not a need to have purely in risk assesment, and they also accept that males need these spaces. This is not a me me me. Well not for the working class women who now have to share these few sex segregated spaces they achieved to gain over the last 200 years with any males who wonders in, consent be damned.

            And i would like to point out that we do force gay males to accept Mangina in their spaces too, consent be damned, all in the name of inclusivity.

            But maybe inclusivity is something that females have to give to males, and gay male and females have to give to some spicy pornified heterosexuals. And consent be damned.

  14. newsense 14
    24 January 2023 at 6:03 pm

    Election slogan- Let’s Do Us.

    No imported Truss-economy, no fighting US culture wars.

    Let’s do us. Let’s solve Kiwi problems. Let’s be good friends. Very very good friends.

    Let’s keep it simple. Let’s keep it fair. Do a good job and get to live a good life. Houses for living in. Cities for living in. A country for living in. Keep it clean, tidy Kiwis! A country to make a living in.

    Let’s do us.

    Two ticks Labour.

    • Shanreagh 14.1
      24 January 2023 at 6:14 pm

      I like it!

      Though I like down home NZ focussed 'stuff aka perhaps known as oldfashioned! (Sorry retro sounds better)

      No imported Truss-economy, no fighting US culture wars.

      I wouldn't have this in or any reference to overseas anything. We are not fortress NZ but we are going along in our boat/waka, sailing it the way we want to

      • newsense 14.1.1
        24 January 2023 at 7:22 pm

        yeh I guess Let’s solve Kiwi problems addresses that enough. (But plenty of the issues we’ve had have been the importation of sovereign citizen/etc/etc framing of issues that shouldn’t be framed that way in NZ. You have to wonder why Hawaii is popular- promises broken again and again and again. And the idea of wokeness. What a useless and harmful term. )

        Probably need to cut the very very good friends but too then- it’s a reference to Colin Powell and Helen Clark in the way aback says, but also goes well with showing pictures of us as a multicultural society and not afraid of being one.

        Still- Let’s do us as a message is a rejection of importing unnecessary things…reflexive and theatrical lying in politics, violence in politics, anti-intellectualism to the point of discarding the scientific method for populism and water muddying, attacking the system not the policy, attacking public servants and particularly election volunteers…

        Then that has to be reframed as the positives of our values which aren’t those things.

        Let’s Do Us is everyone is essential. Fair reward for your work. Supporting our communities, our libraries, our swimming pools (Len Brown move there ), our coaches and volunteers, our clubs, our theatres and our artists. Supporting our outdoors. Supporting our farmers. Support equality of opportunity for our students and young jobseekers.

        slightly off the thread now…but yeh

    • Alan 14.2
      24 January 2023 at 8:19 pm

      Lets Do Us, you might want to rethink that….

      • Incognito 14.2.1
        24 January 2023 at 8:51 pm

        Typical RW response, ridicule & repeal anything remotely positive and resist & reject anything remotely progressive. You guys are just a bunch of laughs.

        • Alan 14.2.1.1
          24 January 2023 at 8:56 pm

          Really?

          You might want to ask a few of your friends what springs to mind when you shout " Let's Do Us!"

          • Incognito 14.2.1.1.1
            24 January 2023 at 9:09 pm

            My friends are older than 13.

          • Shanreagh 14.2.1.1.2
            24 January 2023 at 10:02 pm

            Thanks for your feedback, do you think many 11 year olds will be voting in October?

            We gotta cover all the demographics you understand.

          • newsense 14.2.1.1.3
            25 January 2023 at 5:49 pm

            Now, now don’t be jealous at all this excitement for Labour!

            though tbh I don’t know what gets your jollies, but you do you if that gets you as far along as a black and white Warehouse catalogue. It takes all sorts and who are we to judge…

            As long as it isn’t next to a mug that says spread your legs I think it’s probably fine.