Open mike 24/07/2023

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, July 24th, 2023 - 76 comments
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76 comments on “Open mike 24/07/2023 ”

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  1. Roy Cartland 1
    24 July 2023 at 7:29 am

    Far out, Kiri Alan isn't even the worst story on stuff this morning…

    "Pull her pants down!" They shouted as they dragged a woman across the floor. In India they'd riot about that, we're a sick, sick country.

    https://i.stuff.co.nz/manawatu-standard/news/300933786/pull-her-pants-down-woman-dragged-from-palmerston-north-anti-cogovernance-meeting

    • Terry 1.1
      24 July 2023 at 8:18 am

      Actually the worst story I’ve read today, is a women who was kidnapped last week is still missing.

      But hey, a protester who goes to a meeting to deliberately cause trouble, she gets your sympathy?

      Seriously, two guys get gunned down in their workplace, a woman is kidnapped, and most likely murdered! A cabinet minister (of justice for gos sake!)gets drunk drives, crashes, & resists arrest.

      And you say the worst story is about some woman attending a closed door meeting, with the intention of causing trouble, who when she is dragged from a meeting has a cry about it.

      Seriously your priorities need looking at

      • roy cartland 1.1.1
        24 July 2023 at 11:19 am

        Are you really that stupid or just ignorant? Where did I say it was the worst story? Point to it – oh you can't, because you're wrong. Again. Well done. 👏 <pause> 👏 <pause> 👏 <pause> 👏 .

        • Terry 1.1.1.1
          24 July 2023 at 11:35 am

          Sorry, I’ve just reread what you said, and have considered it over a coffee.

          I stand by my original comment.

          Maybe when you gave an example of an even worse story, you could have used something other than a demonstrator who deliberately caused trouble, and was the author or her own misfortune.

          Driving while drunk and crashing your car into a stationary vehicle & then resisting arrest is fairly serious, and thats if you’re just an average joe blow. But a cabinet minister!

          And one of labour’s policies is to reduce the road toll to zero!

          This is not a good look!

    • joe90 1.2
      24 July 2023 at 9:31 am

      At 0:23 the bloke with the kid reaches around and appears to grab a handful.

      https://twitter.com/kelvin_morganNZ/status/1682685166190469121/video/1

  2. Peter 2
    24 July 2023 at 7:35 am

    Another day in caucus. Everyone lines up. This time it’s Kiri Allan’s turn (again) to walk along and stop at where the cut off point is going to be, the drop off point.

    Casting a look along the doomed, eyeballing them and saying, “Sorry guys,” is a movie they’ve surely been to enough that the exercise will be pretty pro forma.”

    • Patricia Bremner 2.1
      24 July 2023 at 7:43 am

      There were always going to be losses from the unprecedented 65 Labour MPs.

  3. Patricia Bremner 3
    24 July 2023 at 7:39 am

    Last night Kiri Allen lost the plot, appears to have been drunk in charge of a Ministerial car, crashed into a parked car, been arrested and charged. She and Chris Hipkins agreed that is the end of her Ministerial roles, if not her Parliamentary career.

    That is a blow for the PM and a sad end for Kiri. No doubt it will be gleefully reported by factions in the Media. National Act and some in Labour will play politics? We will see if they have any grace.
    Kiri is not coping, and should have still been on leave imo. She has paid a very high price.

    • Sanctuary 3.1
      24 July 2023 at 7:44 am

      Some of us are old enough to remember the kid gloves that came out for Todd Muller crashed and burned. Still, there will be an extra skip in Andrea Vance's step this morning.

      • Roy Cartland 3.1.1
        24 July 2023 at 7:56 am

        And Jamie Lee Toss – apparently a hero for having "mental health".

      • Tiger Mountain 3.1.2
        24 July 2023 at 7:59 am

        Yes, Todd’s melt down was respectfully treated by many, and he is viewed favourably by some as a male that has actually talked about mental health. Kiri will likely get the slipper put in to her.

      • Ad 3.1.3
        24 July 2023 at 8:04 am

        If Todd Muller had resisted arrest enough to be detained by the Police overnight, the political result would have been the same.

        Unless she was swinging arms belligerent, to be detained overnight she must have refused an officer to accompany her for an evidential test. That is pretty unheard-of in modern NZ political life.

        • Roy Cartland 3.1.3.1
          24 July 2023 at 8:10 am

          That's just evidence of her even greater mental health battle, she should be treated with even kiddier gloves.

        • Patricia Bremner 3.1.3.2
          24 July 2023 at 11:48 am

          Detained for a time, not actually overnight, but don't let facts bother you.

      • Terry 3.1.4
        24 July 2023 at 8:08 am

        Yeah well I don’t seem to remember Todd miller, being drunk, drinking & crashing into another car, And. Then. While minister of justice. Resisting arrest!

        Not Ever a Good Look.

        A friend of mine did something similar, he lost his job, had the book thrown at him. And. No. One. Gave. A. F@&k!

        Thats what happens to us working class non professional white guys.

    • Ad 3.2
      24 July 2023 at 7:51 am

      Gone like a brief political comet.

      Imagine if we'd had her for PM when Ardern left.

      Allen was the person fronting the entire youth crime effort, and she has just ruined it.

      Labour is heading for an election day high 20s.

      • Roy Cartland 3.2.1
        24 July 2023 at 7:57 am

        Yes, when she was good, she was very very good…

      • Sanctuary 3.2.2
        24 July 2023 at 8:02 am

        She basically couldn't cope with the pressure and you have to question how much she was mentored along by Ardern, who seemed to carry a lot of her cabinets emotional baggage. People like to ridicule politicians and their rhino like hides, but it has a lot going for it if you want to survive in politics.

        Hipkins has also shown signs of emotional exhaustion over the past five years. The succession of disasters since 2019 has prematurely aged this government.

        I was confident the centre left would win narrowly, but this might be the last scandal that finishes them in the public mind.

        • Ad 3.2.2.1
          24 July 2023 at 8:07 am

          Ardern couldn't even carry her own baggage.

          Underneath Hipkins, the remainder holding this shambles together are Robertson, Woods, Parker, Sepuloni, Jackson and Little.

          • Patricia Bremner 3.2.2.1.1
            24 July 2023 at 9:58 am

            Well Ad baggage seems to be a problem for you as well. imo

            • Ad 3.2.2.1.1.1
              24 July 2023 at 10:06 am

              You keep taking just one too many of those morning THC drops

              • PsyclingLeft.Always …
                24 July 2023 at 10:10 am

                You keep taking just one too many of those morning THC drops

                wtaf ?

                • Patricia Bremner …
                  24 July 2023 at 11:57 am

                  Don't worry PLA. He has a problem with women imo. He was ultra nasty about Jacinda, Kiri, now me. Really losing the plot. THC for heaven's sake!! What a plonker. He needs it more than I do imo

          • Dennis Frank 3.2.2.1.2
            24 July 2023 at 10:04 am

            I'm interested in who he chooses now. Little would be safe hands. I'd prefer Kieran though – Henare would be reliable too.

            • Patricia Bremner 3.2.2.1.2.1
              24 July 2023 at 11:59 am

              Little carries his loads well, and did not cave to the "Angry Andy" rubbish.

  4. Tiger Mountain 4
    24 July 2023 at 8:23 am

    Well, for the gleefull judgementalists, Kiri has crashed–literally–and likely burned her political career. But everyone deserves a chance at redemption and hopefully she will get help and bounce back in some area of life in future.

    In my experience with people, a cancer episode like Kiri Allan went through can have a major impact on mental health and should not be discounted.

  5. Dennis Frank 5
    24 July 2023 at 8:26 am

    Politics is a numbers game:

    The Greens in Wellington could barely get 100 people to their conference, NZ First in Auckland had over 500 and had to move rooms to accomodate everyone. NZFirst’s descent into anti-science quackery and Hobson Pledge anti-Māori sludge is their final last gasp at political relevance and it could well see them cross the 5% threshold.

    NZ First has momentum, the Greens do not and it’s apparent on the conference floors. https://thedailyblog.co.nz/2023/07/24/the-most-telling-detail-in-nz-first-conference-vs-green-conference/

    Groundswell?? Sludge as political strategy? Who knows what NZF might cook up next, but if the next poll gets them up to the threshold, it's big game on…

    • Ad 5.1
      24 July 2023 at 8:30 am

      At this point James Shaw could strangle a baby Kakapo in front of Parliament and they'd still be good for 8% and a seat.

      • UncookedSelachimorpha 5.1.1
        24 July 2023 at 1:25 pm

        I know what you mean…also feels true in reverse sometimes. Could resurrect a baby kakapo, bring world peace and walk on water – and get 8.5% and two seats.

    • Sanctuary 5.2
      24 July 2023 at 8:31 am

      Dude, can you just f*uk off for a week with your inane regurgitating of Bradbury's pics poor takes? If people want to read his ramblings they can go to his site themselves.

      Honestly, your tedious posts are making this site unreadable.

      • Dennis Frank 5.2.1
        24 July 2023 at 9:51 am

        Your need to pretend that reality isn't happening must be acute this morning, since you didn't even question the accuracy of his report. Try & get a grip, huh?

        I don't see why you are so traumatised by the prospect of NZF picking up more floating voters. Is democracy really that unpalatable for you??

        • Sanctuary⁹ 5.2.1.1
          24 July 2023 at 9:59 am

          [abuse deleted]

          [as much as I was tempted to let that through, you’ve already said as much this morning without the level of vitriol.

          Interesting name change btw, I assume it’s unintentional, please fix on next comment if you haven’t already – weka]

        • SPC 5.2.1.2
          24 July 2023 at 11:25 am

          The idea that turnout at a conference indicates momentum is like claiming that form letters sent to a Select Committee indicate public opinion.

          And I am not sure if there is deliberate, or inadvertent, cognitive dissonance here

          NZFirst’s descent into anti-science quackery and Hobson Pledge anti-Māori sludge is their final last gasp at political relevance and it could well see them cross the 5% threshold.

          I don't see why you are so traumatised by the prospect of NZF picking up more floating voters. Is democracy really that unpalatable for you??

          Or maybe satire, who are these floating voters, those with no moral compass?

          • Dennis Frank 5.2.1.2.1
            24 July 2023 at 11:46 am

            who are these floating voters, those with no moral compass?

            Good question, which political scientists usually avoid doing research into. Short answer is centrists who like Winston's moderating influence. Such citizens are far from me. How many of them get shifted into Winston's orbit by his pitch for the rightist rabble vote remains to be seen.

            I agree with your point re conference turn-out – I know from experience that for members the solidarity benefits weigh against the angst costs when one sees how clueless most other members seem! Then there the opportunity costs re travel & time availability which discriminate against worker members while Winston's crowd are mostly retired.

            • SPC 5.2.1.2.1.1
              24 July 2023 at 11:55 am

              I just do not see the anti-science quackery (the only credible point was allowing staff who had recovered from infection to continue to work, or ending mandates once a form of virus that got around the vaccine protection turned up) and Hobson pledge as having anything to do with moderating – more a case of going there to get votes.

              • Dennis Frank …
                24 July 2023 at 12:42 pm

                going there to get votes

                Yeah. He could frame it as coalition-building though, eh? How democracy works. Labour does it with its centrist/leftist blend. The simulation of commonality doesn't fool most within but is seen as practical politics.

          • weka 5.2.1.2.2
            24 July 2023 at 12:09 pm

            The idea that turnout at a conference indicates momentum is like claiming that form letters sent to a Select Committee indicate public opinion.

            And I am not sure if there is deliberate, or inadvertent, cognitive dissonance here

            Hard to tell but Bomber has a long history of undermining the GP /shrug

            The conference turnout thing is a nonsense. How many people usually go to GP election campaign launches? How many people watched the livestream? Who has ten MPs in parliament and who doesn't? and so on.

            Also, it wasn't a conference, it was the campaign launch. The GP AGM was a couple of weeks ago.

            Bomber's an idiot. Either he knows all this and doesn't care, or he's ignorant and doesn't care.

            • Mac1 5.2.1.2.2.1
              24 July 2023 at 1:07 pm

              The question of turnout for meetings. Our local MP and Luxon spoke at two meetings in our electorate and nobody turned out save the party faithful.

              That does not indicate voter intention. It's too early in the election cycle to say how people will vote on election day/s. It's too early to try and persuade people to vote in a particular way, at twelve weeks out. People wanting massive policy releases should know that.

              We should be considering rather how we can get involved in the election cycle- volunteering time and money, and later comes persuasion time once people get closer and engaged in thinking about votes.

              So, get involved is my advice, especially in just getting people to make a vote.

          • UncookedSelachimorpha 5.2.1.2.3
            24 July 2023 at 1:28 pm

            They do have moral compasses, they just align with weird magnetic fields that the rest of us don't perceive. But seems moral to them.

            • Patricia Bremner 5.2.1.2.3.1
              24 July 2023 at 1:39 pm

              That is a great comment. devil faulty towers compass… yes I like that!!

              • UncookedSelachimorpha …
                24 July 2023 at 4:46 pm

                https://pirates.fandom.com/wiki/Jack_Sparrow%27s_compass

                Although it appeared to be nothing more than a useless trinket, as the needle never pointed north, Jack’s compass had supernatural qualities

                Jack Sparrow's compass was an unusual navigational instrument most notably used by Captain Jack Sparrow, which he bartered from the voodoo mystic Tia Dalma and later inherited from his captain. For those who knew how to use it, the compass was the key to everything. Unlike an ordinary compass, Jack's compass pointed to what the owner wanted most, rather than mere magnetic north.

                • Patricia Bremner …
                  24 July 2023 at 5:32 pm

                  Oh that brought memories back!! Thanks for the reminder of that gem.

  6. Sanctuary 6
    24 July 2023 at 8:42 am

    The nitrate bomb appears to be going off. NZ now has some of the highest bowel cancer rates in the world, and water reform has become a culture war issue stoked by big business. It seems rural New Zealanders would rather die of a horrible cancer after drinking contaminated water from cow shit filled waterways than give up control of water.

    https://www.vice.com/en/article/4a3n3n/new-zealand-cows-nitrates-climate-change

  7. tsmithfield 7
    24 July 2023 at 8:44 am

    [comment deleted – you are still in Pre-Mod]

    [TheStandard: A moderator moved this comment to Open Mike as being off topic or irrelevant in the post it was made in. Be more careful in future.]

    • Incognito 7.1
      24 July 2023 at 8:54 am

      Mod note

    • Incognito 7.2
      24 July 2023 at 8:59 pm

      [Simply walking away from a series of (previous) Mod notes is not the way to go and not your prerogative. Take 3 weeks off for wasting moderator time – Incognito.]

  8. pat 8
    24 July 2023 at 9:07 am

    Irrespective of the election outcome we are in trouble.

    • Peter 8.1
      24 July 2023 at 1:05 pm

      I don’t see how that can be. I’ve heard it said enough that when National/Act get in crime’s going to be fixed, roading is going to be fixed, education’s going to be fixed, hospitals are going to be fixed, not having enough workers in various industries is going to be fixed, immigration’s going to be fixed, Māori are going to be fixed, tax is going to be fixed.

      How can that mean we’re in trouble?

      • Patricia Bremner 8.1.1
        24 July 2023 at 5:38 pm

        You forgot sarc. That was what they promised under Key… have you forgotten?

        Ghost chips Ghost houses.. Ghost promises.

  9. Sanctuary 9
    24 July 2023 at 11:12 am

    A good news climate story – US CO2 emissions per capita are now lower than before the Great War.

    https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/co-emissions-per-capita?tab=chart&country=~USA

  10. SPC 10
    24 July 2023 at 1:08 pm

    In the aftermath of the weekend, Barbie goes out to party and Oppenheimer's "Now I am become Death, the destroyer of worlds" the workday week work of "Mission Impossible" getting Labour's poll ratings above those of National continues.

  11. Belladonna 11
    24 July 2023 at 2:00 pm

    Another too-close-to-call election – this time in Spain – with neither the right nor left blocs having a ruling majority.

    The Conservatives have a slight lead- but have failed to fulfil predictions that they would snatch the election.

    https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/7/23/conservatives-lead-spain-election-as-hung-parliament-looms

    • SPC 11.1
      24 July 2023 at 9:01 pm

      The funny thing is the only centre parties they have between the left and right blocks, are the 2 Basque and 2 Catalan parties. The right cannot ally to them and be strong Spanish nationalists.

      • Belladonna 11.1.1
        24 July 2023 at 10:41 pm

        I suspect there will be weeks of negotiations – where many political parties will find that their bottom lines are not nearly so firm as when they campaigned.

  12. joe90 12
    24 July 2023 at 2:22 pm

    It was only a matter of time.

    Te Rangikaiwhiria Kemara

    @Te_Taipo

    Voices For Freedom the organisation whose principal mantra is to make the country ungovernable, is encouraging its members to join the electoral commission as vote issuers and counters.

    Paul Barlow

    @Ceriphinz

    They’re already starting to question the integrity of the process by pushing this kind of content on their platforms. Sowing the seeds of distrust early

    https://twitter.com/Ceriphinz/status/1683223365681836034

    • bwaghorn 12.1
      24 July 2023 at 4:01 pm

      I asked at the taumarunui voting site a couple elections ago what happen s to the papers over night he said they get kept in his garage!!!

      Given that we have early voting and now loopy idiots roaming the street I sincerely hope he was pulling my leg.

      • Francesca 12.1.1
        24 July 2023 at 5:03 pm

        Agreed bwaghorn .I used to be a returning officer in a rural voting booth and the boxes that held the votes were rather informally kept in the back of my car overnight

        Mind you, it would be impossible to tamper with the votes.They could be destroyed though!

    • weka 12.2
      24 July 2023 at 5:07 pm

      what's the goal there? To lower trust in voting, or to monkey wrench voting, or both?

      • Joe90 12.2.1
        24 July 2023 at 5:57 pm

        They're trying to sow doubt about electoral integrity to undermine trust in the legitimacy of the process.

        The lower the level of trust in the process, the lower the turn out.

  13. RP Mcmurphy 13
    24 July 2023 at 5:29 pm

    what lisa owen on rnz checkpoint does not understand is that the more she shreiks in glee at kiri allans downfall the more dedent people deplore her indecent gloating

    • tWiggle 13.1
      24 July 2023 at 7:43 pm

      Given Allen's ex-partner, Marnie Dunlop, lost her news position at RNZ in the last 6 months or so, is there perhaps some personal reason for Lisa's glee, or is it gloating?

      • Roy Cartland 13.1.1
        25 July 2023 at 6:45 am

        Mani Dunlop was the best Morning Report host for yonks. So much more interesting that insipid Ingrid, the sports presenter. I wish Mani would come back.

  14. tWiggle 14
    24 July 2023 at 8:04 pm

    Oops, shouldn't do speculation. I listened to it now, and thought Lisa Owen was quite neutral in the Kiri spot on checkpoint. Apart from leading with the facts, and with Hipkin's words and reshuffle, the rest was mostly reportage on other parties' tactics in making hay from the incident by attacking government solidity.