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Open Mike 24/12/2017

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, December 24th, 2017 - 98 comments
Categories: open mike - Tags:

Open mike is your post.

For announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose. The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the Policy).

Step up to the mike …

98 comments on “Open Mike 24/12/2017 ”

  1. James 1

    tis Christmas Eve, so wishing you all a happy Christmas.

    We are doing our traditional Christmas “thing” with family – generally eating too much ham and turkey and playing old board games. (ed substitute that for a turnip if that make you more comfortable).

    Hope 2018 goes better for those of you who have had a poor 2017, and for those who had a good 2017 – may 2018 exceed it.

    • Robert Guyton 1.1

      Monopoly, no doubt.

    • Ad 1.2

      I went for whole baked salmon, stuffed with apricots, red onions, and sweet chili sauce, covered in couscous (to keep the moisture in).

      I am the main cook this year – it’s at my sister’s house but she’s too exhausted.

      I’m looking forward to the animal charm my Ford-obsessed bogal brother and his squad of Bodeans are going to exert over my Victorian mother-in-law.

      Rose Slushies Forever!

    • Acting up 1.3

      Merry Christmas James. Hope you and your family have a good festive break. See you in 2018, for more fun political debate.

  2. dv 2

    I see the US ambassador to Netherlands is lying about his lies.

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/world/americas/100155998/donald-trumps-new-ambassador-to-the-netherlands-caught-lying-about-his-own-lies

    Dutch journalist to new US Ambassador: you said there were ‘no go zones’ in Netherlands, where are they?
    Ambassador: That’s fake news, I didn’t say that
    Journalist: We can show you that clip now.
    Ambassador: Err

    If you lie about a lie does that make it the truth?

  3. eco maori 3

    Many thanks to Valerie Adams for being a great role model for all the Lady’s around OUR WORLD to aspire to and the best thing is that she brown. I admire that you and your brother show the rest of the World the good humble humane Kiwi nature and use have come from humble beginning Kai kaha

    • James 3.1

      “And the best thing is that she is brown”.

      That shouldn’t have anything to do with anything.

      The fact that she is being a good role model is the only thing that matters. it’s nice that you applaud her and acknowledge the fact – but it’s not a skin colour issue.

      • joe90 3.1.1

        I guess you’ve swallowed the post-racial Kool-aid but it is a skin colour thing, James.

        Young brown women are interested in the put because they identify with Dame Valerie in the same way young Pākehā women are interested pole vaulting, because they identify with Eliza McCartney.

        • James 3.1.1.1

          So the best thing about Adams is that she is brown Joe 90 ?

          No kook aid here. I can see the person (and there is no doubt she is an amazing person ) not her colour.

          • adam 3.1.1.1.1

            Silly question james but what percentage of advertising images of women are brown? What percentage of newspaper articles talk about brown women in a positive light?

            Maybe, in a world where the dominate media did portray people of all colours and races in a equal amount the we could be colour blind. Until then, brown roll modes are somthing aspire to, when most of the images and stories are of white women.

          • joe90 3.1.1.1.2

            So the best thing about Adams is that she is brown Joe 90 ?

            Of course not. But In the context of eco maori’s comment about Adams and inspiration, the folk most in need of inspiration in our society are young Māori and PI women and because just like me is a thing, Dame Valerie’s skin colour does matter to them.

          • eco maori 3.1.1.1.3

            James go piss in the wind somewhere else you have been trying to get me to ingage in your neo liberal dum ass views for a while. I have no time to waste on you Ana to kai

            • james 3.1.1.1.3.1

              No I havnt – in fact the only replies I can remember sending to you were when you were convinced that people were following you etc, and I very politely and with respect suggested you talk to somebody.

              Calling you up on racist statements isnt “neo liberal dum ass views” – its calling you up for “dum ass” racist statements.

    • Foreign waka 3.2

      Eco maori, I often agree with what you are saying but in this instance – I am not. You are inferring that not only is it “best” for Mrs Adams that she is brown – does it really matter if her efforts have got her there, she could have stripes for all that matters – and to this end that the rest of the world are not good humble human beings.
      You might want to look at rephrasing this because this is so not like you.
      Merry Christmas, Noel, Frohe Weihnacht, Buon Natale, peace on earth.

      • eco maori 3.2.1

        I no who needs there Wairua lifted in the most in OUR beautiful country foreign waka I stand by what I have Written Kai kaha

    • eco maori 3.3

      Apologies Valerie I forgot to Congratulat you for your new baby I was looking after my blue eye mokos who is my Paua I had planned to mention that first Ka pai

  4. Ad 4

    This is one outstanding dance accompaniment to Uptown Funk, all interconnected with 1930s,1940s and 1950s dance numbers:

    • OnceWasTim 4.1

      Brilliant!

    • mary_a 4.2

      Thanks for this clip Ad (4) … I’m of the vintage being able to remember when I saw some of these great musicals. Oh to be able to move like that. Dancing at its very best.

      I have seen a dance clip of a young adult Michael Jackson tap dancing with a couple of other guys. Boy oh boy he was up there with the best of the song and dance performers. An amazing and incredible talent lost to the musical world. RIP Michael.

  5. Sabine 5

    just came across this and have nothing to add to but a a yeah, sadly so, might 2018 bring about much needed change, but i highly doubt. No guts, no glory – it seems it affects our politicians across the spectrum.

    View post on imgur.com

  6. Foreign waka 6

    Merry Christmas everybody, to all in this forum. How great that ideas and comments can be shared without getting too much out of hand 🙂
    Have a safe and successful New Year.

  7. What Will It Really Take to Avoid Collapse?

    This second warning contains a series of charts showing how utterly the world’s leaders ignored what they were told twenty-five years earlier. Whether it’s CO2 emissions, temperature change, ocean dead zones, freshwater resources, vertebrate species, or total forest cover, the grim charts virtually all point in the same dismal direction, indicating continued momentum toward doomsday. The chart for marine catch shows something even scarier: in 1996, the catch peaked at 130 million tonnes and in spite of massively increased industrial fishing, it’s been declining ever since—a harbinger of the kind of overshoot that unsustainable exploitation threatens across the board.

    My bold.

    Proof that physical limits don’t go away just because technology advances.

    Oh, and that Malthus was right.

  8. joe90 8

    Go Harry!

    The UK passport is an expression of our independence and sovereignty – symbolising our citizenship of a proud, great nation. That's why we have announced that the iconic #bluepassport will return after we leave the European Union in 2019. https://t.co/pgQvrBIna5— Theresa May (@theresa_may) December 22, 2017

    When I was born in 1923 the British Empire comprised one fifth of the world's population of which the majority lived in squalor like my family. #bluepassport— Harry Leslie Smith (@Harryslaststand) December 22, 2017

  9. adam 9

    The Jill Stein attacks are just the rebirth McCarthyism. 18 min

    • joe90 9.1

      Unfortunately Jill, HRC’s loss means the Republican chaired congressional committees, the Republican headed DOJ, FBI, NSA ,CIA, and the Republican Special Counsel can have at it. Idiot.
      /

      Jill Stein: ‘Clinton Democrats’ Dragged Me Into Russia Probe as ‘Punishment’ For 2016 Run

      https://www.mediaite.com/tv/jill-stein-clinton-democrats-dragged-me-into-russia-probe-as-punishment-for-2016-run/

      • adam 9.1.1

        Even your own link does not say what you are saying joe90.

        The headline says what you want, but the piece underneath doesn’t.

        So more of the same from you Joe90, this alt-right methodology. Maybe you should just run with breitbart, it seems to be your play book at the moment.

        • joe90 9.1.1.1

          Nah. I’m with the Russian Greens.

          After your visit to Moscow and your meeting with Vladimir Putin you said that “the world deserve[s] a new commitment to collaborative dialogue between our governments to avert disastrous wars for geopolitical domination, destruction of the climate, and cascading injustices that promote violence and terrorism.” We agree with you. But how can this new “collaborative dialogue” be possible when Mr. Putin has deliberately built a system based on corruption, injustice, falsification of elections, and violation of human rights and international law? How is it possible to have a discussion with Mr. Putin and not mention, not even once, the fate of Russian political prisoners, or the attacks against Russian journalists, artists, and environmentalists? Is it fair to speak with him about “geopolitics” and not mention new Russian laws against freedom of speech, restrictions on NGOs and activists, or the shameful law that forbids “homosexual propaganda”?

          By silencing Putin’s crimes you are silencing our struggle. By shaking his hand and failing to criticize his regime you are becoming his accomplice. By forgetting what international solidarity means you are insulting the Russian environmental movement.

          https://pplswar.wordpress.com/2016/09/07/russian-greens-open-letter-to-jill-stein/

          • adam 9.1.1.1.1

            WOW, just wow.

            So you have not listened to a word Jill Stein has said have you, for someone who professes to hate misogynists – that’s a bit sexist is it not?

            That said, what have the Russian greens ever done, except attack Jill Stein? It’s not a very accomplished or comprehensive list. Hard to find much on them. This

            https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_Ecological_Party_%22The_Greens%22

            Mmm so tools for propaganda purposes then, seems you had another breitbart moment joe90.

            • joe90 9.1.1.1.1.1

              Perhaps you could point to the connections between the letter’s signatories, Yevgeniya Chirikova and Nadezda Kutepova, and the Russian Ecological Party.

              • adam

                You said greens.

                So the individuals are not part of the russian green party?

                So why say greens?

                • joe90

                  Environmentalists who espouse green values and principles aren’t greens…..righto….
                  /

                  • adam

                    JIll Stein is the leader of the American Green party. You said Russian Greens – in capitals I might add, which to a lay person like me took to mean it came from a political party. Rather than individuals who hold green values.

                    Your implication also said all the Greens in Russia, rather than two individuals.

                    Or were you just implying it came from a political party to counter Stein being a member and leader of the American Greens?

                    You lost me at this point.

                    So your basic argument is, Stien is evil and a russian tool – and look I have two people who agree with me.

                    In the meantime, the whole prosecution of the left carries on, with people like you enabling the new McCarthyism.

                    Have a great day tomorrow.

                    • joe90

                      Arguing intent over a capitalisation, whatevers. but in my world espousing green values and principles means they’re greens.

                      And FYI, a congressional committee looking into Stein’s hobnobbing with Flynn, a convicted criminal and potential traitor, and a murderous thug ain’t McCarthyism.

                    • adam

                      Really joe90 – guilt by association (one dinner), with no other evidence.

                      Who died and made you Stalin?

                    • joe90

                      Insults are all you’ve got?

                      Weak.

    • McFlock 9.2

      The issue isn’t the picture.

      The issue is: what was the event, and who paid for Flynn’s attendance. And basic diligence says to ask the same questions about any other us political figure at the event.

      Now, the repugs will try and beat up Stein over this, but I suspect that unlike Flynn she took care to do everything legally (e.g. paid her own way rather than accepting gifts from Russians, avoid making foreign policy commitments to strange men).

  10. phantom snowflake 10

    One tactic used by proponents of Neoliberalism is the weaponizing of language; a prime example being “welfare dependency.” Here’s a snappy little deconstruction of the term from NZ Council of Christian Social Services site:

    Welfare dependency is an ill-defined concept that is often referred to without any attempt to explain what it means. It implies that welfare benefits are some kind of “drug” that people in poverty are addicted to and the only cure is withdrawal!

    http://nzccss.org.nz/work/poverty/facts-about-poverty/fact-6-making-life-hell-on-a-benefit-does-not-reduce-poverty/

    http://nzccss.org.nz/work/poverty/facts-about-poverty/

    • Incognito 10.1

      Nice one!

      If the beneficiaries & poor are the “addicts” then neoliberalism is the “drug syndicates” that created the dependency and thrive on it; money is the “drug”, of course. In other words, as long as there’s neoliberalism there is and will be (a need for) social welfare as we know it. Dissolve the former and the latter will evaporate with it.

    • bwaghorn 10.2

      my ex knows exactly how much she can earn before it affects her income support (wff in her case) and turns down work if it will take her over , sounds dependant to me.

      • Incognito 10.2.1

        No, that is oppression, by the State and sanctioned by (our) society.

        • bwaghorn 10.2.1.1

          bull , she turns down work to get free money , people do it from rich to poor , how you solve it i don’t know , probably a ubi

          • Andre 10.2.1.1.1

            If she’s getting wff, I suspect a better description is because of the abatement of wff, combined with income tax, and possibly extra expenses to do with working extra hours, means she gets so little extra in the hand from extra hours of work that it’s just not worth it to her. That’s a different scenario than “turns down work to get free money”.

            • bwaghorn 10.2.1.1.1.1

              she went from a permanent part time job to a job that can easily have a cashy bit to it , i livetd with her 12 years i know how she thinks , lefties need to stop dreaming that every one on the benefit is doing there best to be self supporting , ( by the way yes i pay her money every week , plus provide for my kid in other ways and have her 3 nights a week , no i get no wff)

          • fender 10.2.1.1.2

            No, she turns down extra hours to avoid being unfairly penalised.

            It’s only called free money by rabid haters who frequent newswinge ZB. It’s actually a tax rebate protected by law to recognise the often high costs of raising children.

          • Graeme 10.2.1.1.3

            Exactly the same a back in the days of Muldoon and the tax rates then. In a job I had in ’82 I had to be very careful how much overtime I worked or I went up a tax bracket (36 – 45% I think, been to sleep a few times since then). Nett effect was that if I worked two Saturday mornings a fortnight I got less in the hand than if I had just worked 5 days. One had me just under the threshold by a couple of dollars.

            • Draco T Bastard 10.2.1.1.3.1

              That was actually working as indented to a large degree. Back in those days the government had a policy of full employment and policies like Penal Rates and high taxes to enforce it.

              Basically, the government had rules to make it better to employ someone else rather than have people work longer.

              But there was also another aspect of that that you’re not mentioning: Back then people also had to fill in a tax return every year. You may have gone up to the higher tax bracket over a week but if that only happened a time or two then, at the end of the year when you filed your tax return, you’d get a large part of it back because over the year you weren’t in the higher tax bracket.

              I’m very much in favour of getting everyone to fill in their tax returns every year again.

              • Graeme

                Yeah, tax return time was nice but it really pissed me off at the time. I was a leading hand on the job so really had to be there, and was earning a bit more for the responsibility, so it affected me but not the other guys.

                And it would have been great if we could have got more staff, there were three major projects going on in Marlbrough then, so no spare construction staff, and no accomodation either. Contractors tried bringing in staff from around the country but they couldn’t find anywhere to live. I was living in the nurses home for a while, not ideal living on hospital food when you’re doing heavy physical work, and various pubs, again not ideal long term, and eventually found something to rent.

                Would have loved to have had a 40 hr job then, it was a nice place, but didn’t really have the option because all the other contractors were in the same position.

          • McFlock 10.2.1.1.4

            I used to work a casual job with a flatmate. She had to do a three hour stretch before she broke even with the allowance abatement. She did it just to keep her hand in, not because she ended up working for significantly less than minimum wage over the entire shift.

            That’s “dependency” in the same way that prison is “reluctance to travel”.

            • bwaghorn 10.2.1.1.4.1

              could she have worked more , i know alot on benefits want off , but not all, there are deffinately people who structure their life to maximize the what they can get , knowingly or not that makes them dependant because they are unwilling or unable to wean them selves off.,

              • McFlock

                No. It was casual, at the behest of the roster-keeper.

                Like most people on a benefit, if she could have had a decent job, she would have. Maybe your ex is one of the exceptions, who could have worked 40/wk with a decent income but chose to stay on a benefit.

                But seriously, dealing with abatements, having the call centre fuck up the details and take forever to give you the pay they fucked up and underpaid (after you spent ages on hold with them), or getting threatening letters because they fucked up and didn’t process the abatement properly and decided that you were committing benefit fraud – all for an additional amount that barely covers transport and parking costs to get to the bloody job… That’s the decision a lot of people face, and I don’t begrudge them whatever they choose.

                • bwaghorn

                  i don’t begrudge the ex , if she wants to live poor thats her choice . i just think dependancy on the state is real ,and her case proves it, the state will be part of the problem , but until people admit that it has made people dependant then they are part of the problem to .

                  • McFlock

                    I think calling them “dependant” artificially restricts consideration of the issue.

                    The issue is that the transition from benefit to work is a massive barrier for a huge number of reasons, and if the reward for crossing that barrier isn’t enough to live in dignity, a very small proportion of the unemployed population will say “why bother”. I can’t say I’d blame them for that.

                    But the vast majority really want work, a decent job that they’d give a decent effort at. But they get stuck going from dead-end job to dead-end job, back on the dole in the meantime until the next exploitative and systematically temporary job comes up.

                    • KJT

                      Not to mention a 13 week stand down for someone who quits a job.

                      Even if it is inadequate hours, wages or the employer is bullying them to the stage their health is being affected.

                  • fender

                    Perhaps you don’t appreciate how difficult it is to run a household with children as well as working 40 hours per week.

                  • One Anonymous Bloke

                    Meanwhile, on Earth, poverty makes people dependent, and poverty is a matter of economics, not choice.

          • Incognito 10.2.1.1.5

            Her (i.e. your ex) choices are severely limited by the so-called social welfare system with its controlling bureaucracy that has been set up and institutionalised by the State. It is cruel, it is unjust, it is prolonged, it is burdensome and it is through/by the authority of the State; to me these are all hallmarks of oppression. Regardless of the (‘victim’) label, it is not a situation that should be advocated and continued and a proper UBI may go a long way to a more just solution.

          • James 10.2.1.1.6

            It’s not free money – it’s tax payers money.

      • No, that’s poorly designed systems.

        A well designed system would have it so that it didn’t matter how much she earned.

      • patricia bremner 10.2.3

        She should be able to better her situation for 3 months before the deductions start, and they should be at a reasonable pace to allow a full transition. IMO

    • UncookedSelachimorpha 10.3

      The links are excellent too – worth following.

  11. Sanctuary 11

    Nipped out at dawn, caught a big kingfish, gutted and filleted him on the beach, smoked him in the backyard, we ate him for lunch with homemade mayo, lashings of butter, and a big crusty loaf washed down with artisan cider. Life is good. Nap time!

  12. Sanctuary 12

    Nipped out at dawn, caught a big kingfish, gutted and filleted him on the beach, smoked him in the backyard, we are him for lunch with homemade mayo, lashings of butter, and a big crusty loaf washed down with artisan cider, and Jacinda is still PM. Life is good. Nap time!

  13. SPC 13

    Wars usually have their origin when participants start lying to themselves

    From the Herald

    “With unusual fanfare, President Donald Trump unveiled a new National Security Strategy last week that cast China and Russia as competitors for global power and potential threats to the United States.”

    Quote
    “China and Russia challenge American power, influence, and interests, attempting to erode American security and prosperity,” the document states. “They are determined to make economies less free and less fair, to grow their militaries, and to control information and data to repress their societies and expand their influence.”

    It is the USA government that is making their economy less free and fair – ending net neutrality (blocking access to some sites may result) and undermining health care for all while handing out tax cuts to the advantaged ion their society.

    And yes, spending more on their military.

    The US government with its surveillance programmes and covert targeting operations does as much as would be expected of any empire to suppress opposition.

    It’s opposition to free trade is based on America first and undermining the prosperity of other nations.

    Total hypocrisy. And such big lies lead to division, contention and ultimately war.

  14. eco maori 14

    I no the muppets take Christmas and Easter off this has been going on for a few years. They must not have anything better to do A. I no they are pissed that national lost they are getting put the good honest standards that OUR new coalition government expects of all state employees. The retired ones are losing there PE testing gravy train that one who intimidated that boy locking up making him go to Australia well he is retired now Ka pai there is much more going on behind the seens. There job is to serve us not intimidat us and use us.
    Labour knows that they interfear in the election smearing Phil Geoff. I reckon that all political parties should have gray as there colour so the police don’t automatically support national some people can be influenced just by colour
    Ana to kai

  15. mary_a 15

    Compliments of the season to all contributors to TS.

    My wish for 2018 is that we are governed more by the heart and not the wallet. Let’s hope for a much kinder and caring year, particularly towards those who are less fortunate than ourselves.

    Kia kaha.

  16. patricia bremner 16

    Above all else I wish you all good health, the real wealth. Those who are struggling with a long term condition, may you find help and peace. Seasons Greetings.

  17. joe90 17

    Erdogan tightens his hold.

    2,766 personnel dismissed from various Turkish institutions with new emergency decree pic.twitter.com/kIA8f1Ttvc— ANADOLU AGENCY (ENG) (@anadoluagency) December 24, 2017

  18. Morrissey 18

    SCANDAL! Those beastly unarmed Palestinian
    women are slapping our brave Israeli soldiers.

    When a woman is faced by a maniac, what is she to do? . . . In her rage she will slap him . . . That is to say, the woman will use all her physical strength. Will that not constitute violence? . . . In a situation like [this], slapping or scratching, if the occasion demands it, does not constitute violence. The trust of a woman who slaps is not in the slap, her trust is in God . . . Her expression is not an expression of violence, only of her opposition . . . Her anger, her alarm, proclaims for herself as well as for the man her preparedness to die . . . Instead of feeling helpless and scared, she should say to herself: “I shall offer up my body and life, but shall not become a coward.” Her slap or scratching indicates this resolve. It is in itself non-violence. She has no strength to cause harm. Hence her act is not violence.

    —-Mahatma Gandhi, “What Women Should Do in a Difficult Situation,” Collected Works, 4 September 1932

    http://normanfinkelstein.com/2017/12/22/from-children-of-the-stone-to-women-of-the-smack-a-one-step-plan-to-end-the-israeli-occupation/

  19. ropata 19

    Bradbury’s Christmas Wish List:
    https://thedailyblog.co.nz/2017/12/24/what-i-want-for-christmas/

    Very altruistic. Personally I’ll settle for a Lamborghini, a pair of supermodels, and a private yacht house in Auckland

  20. eco maori 20

    I have been anerlise the way the state is treating eco and how the neo liberals have been treating US for the last 9 years. I have come to this conclusion that the reason that New Zealand had the highest standards of living in the World in the 50 60 is because these neo liberal bigots stole OUR land trough deceit and when it suited them they made laws to justify this theft they also used deceit to cover up this theft using the media to set public persicption that all the land transfered/stolen was honest and legal YEA RIGHT They used the farcical Court system they set up to steal land how do I know this well they are using the courts to suppress me. It was fate that Maori had Sir Apirana Ngata to slow down the neo liberals theft of Maoris assets he had a lot of land put into trust to protect Maori assets he layed the plans for most of the Marae. And I say we should use OUR Marae more houseing the home less as they are doing in Auckland this will be much cheaper than using motels ass the motelers are price gouging we need to use OUR Marae much more use it or we will lose them . I see a lot of run down Marare. We need to uterlise OUR Marae to UNITE all Maori as one people and one voice if New Zealand first can be Queen maker with 8% of the vote than Maori can directly control who becomes Queen /King
    As we have at least 20 % of the population and we could unite with our closes cultures in New Zealand OUR Pacific Islands cousin we will have 30% of the vote we are very very close on a lot of thing genetically culturely Maori migrated from the Pacific Islands 100s of years ago we have the same bad stats in NZ so What is good for Maori can be beneficial to our Pacific Islands cousin. This is not a mountainieos task but the neo liberals will pull all the dirty tricks out of there evil bag to stop this IE change laws propergader through MSM and social media any way they can dream up to fight US from ripping there greedy hands off the leavers that Run OUR Society. In OUR NZ society we could all have jobs that pay good money so one only has to work 40 hours a week to live comfortably the only reason we do not have that now is the greedy neo liberal don’t want to shear they cheat us on the reality of there state systems as being honest and humble and humane YEA RIGHT the state system are set to severe the 1% and this is the reason why OUR worlds has so much poverty the neo liberals are still pillaging Africa. I know that OUR African cousins are going to correct this an rip there leavers of control from the neo liberals and share there great resources more humane and fearly I see that happening now.
    The main cultural we need to have when we get OUR Mana back is to respect our neighbours help our neighbours and everyone can live a long and peaceful prosperous life. It is dum to try and kick our neighbours and cheat them when we get our Mana back. Just because there te puna did it to us as it will turn into a dum ass shit fight. And we want New Zealand to be a humane humble helping environmental sustainabil society. We will help OUR Pacific Islands cousin servive climate change with technology and resources we are obliged to do this. Not to just exploit them like shonky has done. PS with what little I know about the subject it looks like block chain could replace money.
    Ka kite ano

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