The Irish have voted for gay marriage in a referendum, good news. But in a week which featured a lot of nonsense about gender assignment surgery again wedging a bunch of hapless white male MP Labour twits what are the lessons for the left in NZ from the Irish referendum?
Anyone who favours my posts by generously reading them will know I’ve lately been much taken by the ideas of Pablo Iglesias and Spain’s Podemos. One of the things that Podemos advocate is the left forming broad alliances for specific issues, looking not to the parliament for top down leadership, but rather by-passing the political & media elites to force change. This piece in the Irish Times –
notes that “…It looks like a victory for articulacy. This was indeed a superb civic campaign…” A civic campaign that gave the political elites in Ireland absolutely no choice. Compare and contrast a confused, ideologically exhausted Labour party bickering over gender re-assignment surgery with the sort of populism of Podemos, and the sort of mechanisms (referendums, civic campaigns) in Ireland and the sort of “new left” we need for the 21st century here in NZ is becoming clearer.
Podemos are interesting in that they’ve used Loomio in such a massively constructive way. They’re a true grass roots political movement.
It’s what we need here in NZ. Where the representatives are representing the choices of the people and not their own desires and beliefs as we have now.
maybe the standardistas should set up a loomio and run through various scenarios/decisions based on current posts. See what happens when we have to actually work together 😈
“but rather by-passing the political & media elites to force change”
Completely with you on that one.
Can you recommend some reading on Podemos for someone who’s unfamiliar with it? Something easily accessible and not too dense to start with would be good.
“…Third, in my opinion the nature of the breakthroughs being achieved is largely a populist one. That is to say, it is when new formations manage to puncture the bubble of bipartisan niceties, with slogans that are both resonant and pit ‘the people’ against a ‘power bloc’ that is insulated from popular opinion, that they succeed…”
Also read up on the “Pink Tide” in South America, where non-traditional alliances between the left and local capitalists have rolled back globalised capitalism. In New Zealand, such an alliance might be the left championing local import substitution whilst attacking foreign owned banks. That would offer opportunities to split right wing business orgainsations like Business New Zealand. for example.
If you (or anyone) look into Ireland’s distant past, and where its culture has come from and the general default “mindset” of the Gaelic people, the way Gay marriage has been dealt with comes as no surprise.
Without wanting to present the idea that the Irish are all a bunch of happy dancing leprechauns, unlike NZ, Ireland’s cultural heritage is one of the most advanced and… hmmm… “liberal” or “progressive” in the Western world.
Where NZders traditionally seek advantage between peers, and maintain inequality between gender and sex, foreigners and locals, and enforcement of law comes from the State – as per their English/Monarchist roots – Ireland traditionally seeks equality and community, and enforcement of law is the decision of the family/clan – as per their Clan roots.
In very loose terms, of course, but that’s the point: despite having a modern tendency to shoot each other over which street one lives in, and despite early culture still being Patriarchial, they are more prone to integration of all-comers lifestyle requirements (women, gays, and foreigners) , rather than exclusion. The source of the cultural echo being Brehon Law.
Secret meeting in London to discuss making cash illegal, meaning total government control over taxation, spending….or more specifically what is able to be brought and sold.
Probably inevitable b waghorn but this was suggested not as evolution but a sudden lurch. Imagine a cashless society where a Government agency could if they wanted, track a dissident and know exactly their activites. And no more coins for the buskers or charity collectors. Why even the very rich could be tracked and taxed so what a calamity that would be!
Yes this is all part of implementing authoritarian big brother control and surveillance over every aspect of our lives. True democratic dissent will be ending shortly thereafter.
A cashless society will be a great step on the way to the total removal of money. Interestingly enough, it’s happening anyway:
Approximately two-thirds of total spending in New Zealand is done electronically on eftpos and credit cards,” says Paul Whiston, spokesman for electronics payment provider Paymark.
The question isn’t that we’re going cashless but if we’re going to continue to let the private banks control our money and our spending. I’m of the opinion that we need to stop that ASAP. When we go cashless it needs to be a government service, well backed up and with very strict rules about access.
Going cashless brings about a number of advantages:
1. It would be near impossible to lose money. Sure, you could drop your swipe card but that can easily be replaced and any money spent via it returned and the thief caught.
2. It would be impossible for someone to break in to the server and steal your money that way either. They can’t transfer it out to another country because any NZ$ outside of the server doesn’t exist and any internal transfer will be readily apparent even if the hackers managed to hide their own tracks.
3. Taxes. It would be incredibly easy for IRD to track where money is going and thus be able to determine who owes what taxes. In fact, they could do it in real time making a Financial Transaction Tax viable (At the moment implementation of an FTT would have many people moving to cash to prevent having to pay the tax).
4. Crime. Money laundering would be a thing of the past. It’s difficult to launder ill-gotten cash when it doesn’t exist. Other crime networks would also be easily detected. Essentially, crime that involves money would be gone along with the money laundering.
5. Inflation could be more accurately measured. Instead of having people go around shops recording the prices for a basket of goods all sales would be reported back with the system then automatically measuring inflation in near real time.
6. The recording of every sale would be great for informing people where they would get the best deal via a government funded website similar to PriceSpy.
As I say, it’s not a question of if we’re going cashless (We are already) but when, how and who controls it. IMO, we need to do so ASAP and we need to control it and not the private banks (although I’m sure that the private banks would love to rip us off some more for allowing us to use our own currency).
You’re kidding yourself, backing the movement towards a cashless society when that movement is completely engineered, supported, and structured from the ground up by the large capitalist institutions.
Yep, the only way NZ will get to be cashless is if it is forced to do so (and people will just invent new forms of non-traceable tokens for recording exchange anyway). That we have increasing tech for managing transactions is a different thing than removing cash as well.
I’m expecting increasing adverse events (weather, economy) that make a cashless society the far less resilient option.
Absolutely. Trying getting food from a supermarket when the EFTPOS network goes down. Usually a “cash only” check out opens up, but fuck all people have enough cash on hand to use it, so you get hundreds of hungry people milling around surrounded by groceries unable to transact any business.
As I said, we need to stop the large capitalist institutions from doing it and do it ourselves via our government. Private industry should not have control of our money and they will have if we don’t do something to stop them.
Yours are all fantasy conditions. I’m talking about what the actual conditions are, now, today. The fact is that moving to a cashless society, which is simply a part of moving to a fully online security and surveillance state, needs to be opposed on all fronts.
Nope. We need to keep track of our resources so that we can use them sustainably and for the benefit of NZ. Cash doesn’t allow us to do that in a meaningful way as it’s so easily untraceable.
We need to keep track of our resources so that we can use them sustainably and for the benefit of NZ.
That has got nothing to do with having a cashless society. Societies have managed to keep a close eye on their resource use for millenia without electronic money. Often on stone tablets and papyrus.
You are linking ideas as pre-requisites when they are not.
Societies have managed to keep a close eye on their resource use for millenia without electronic money.
Not really. They’ve been able to keep track of transactions but not resource use in relation to what resources are actually available. This is a rather important development that we need to implement to help us becoming a sustainable society.
How much oil is left in NZs wells?
How much food is produced daily on NZs farms?
How much water is there available to those farms to produce that food?
How much iron ore in our black sands?
How much titanium?
Now, how much is available sustainably (ie, in perpetuity) and how much is actually being used?
There’s a reason why I kept saying in relation to. One of the main reasons that Rome collapsed was over use of resources. They ran out of the resources needed to maintain the empire.
A cashless society would allow better booking keeping of the use of those resources. Of course, we still need to measure what resources we have available.
you see and all your points are why i like cash – the government issues legal tender, and it is untracable unless othewise marked.
as for the cashless world fantasy, and then you have a day or three without electricity and non of your eftpos machines works.
As for your bullet points: essentially all of you points listed we already have with our eftpos accounts.
* Any purchase you make is already tracked, just have a look at your bank statements. (anyone can have access to that, as identity thiefs and hackes have proven on more than one account)
* you are already getting ads in regards to your spending….Just look at the farmer emails that come courtesy of your farmer card, google, hack even the aa knows what you buy on your smart cad, every single one of your online purchases is recognised adn will reflect the next ads you see courtesy of google
* the government could/should prevent tax evasion, but considering that the polititians are at the front of tax evasion, maybe we should simply stop dreaming that they will do something to prevent it. 🙂
* loose your bank card and you risk loosing more then just a 20 $ bill.
* anyone who knows how to hack can steal more then just your money from your bank account….i think they made a few movies about that already.
* criminals don’t care what government do. They will find a replacement for cash, like cigarettes, coffee, chocolate, sexual favors, etc etc
* non criminals with no access to a bank card will also find a replacement of official cash such as cigarettes, coffee, chocolate, work for food/housing, sexual favours for food/housing or jobs, … etc etc (this was how life was handled in the direct year/s after the war ended in germany. my grandmother and my mother had a few stories of cleaning cigarette butts, rolling new zigs out of them and selling them for a few pennies or some potatoes)
No for the poor, cash is king, because it is untracable. Having a Food card that prohibits certain stores, or certain foods, or certain hygiene articles etc etc is not going to make your life easier.
those that are rich or very rich already have their cash less society, and their bank accounts in switzerland, singapore, hong kong and london and they still don’t pay any tax.
also note that the legalised gangsters and banksters in our society seem to transact their business electronically and cashlessly just fine. It’s their system after all.
I don’t think a purely government operated banking system is a good idea. The current system has the advantage of creating a separation of roles between government regulators and the banks themselves.
The standard of regulation is not strong and should be increased but that is another issue.
Ireland seems to show what happens when politicians get too cozy with bankers. An entire political party lost its hegemony due to massive corruption which was fueling a property bubble there.
you see and all your points are why i like cash – the government issues legal tender, and it is untracable unless othewise marked.
That one sentence shows that you failed to understand what I said. The most important being that we actually need to track resources used. That’s not an option, not if we want to become a sustainable society.
as for the cashless world fantasy, and then you have a day or three without electricity and non of your eftpos machines works.
Shit happens and it really doesn’t happen that often. We mitigate against it but it’s still going to happen. As an example I’m pretty sure that a hell of a lot of Wellington couldn’t go shopping during the recent storm nor for some time after.
As for your bullet points: essentially all of you points listed we already have with our eftpos accounts.
I’m pointing out that the private sector shouldn’t actually have that information because of the many point you make about advertising and tracking.
loose your bank card and you risk loosing more then just a 20 $ bill.
As I pointed out, there’s actually less risk because of the nature of electronic transactions. A simple call to the help desk to report it lost and it gets frozen.
anyone who knows how to hack can steal more then just your money from your bank account…
There’s a risk of that but a) not as high as people believe and b) we need to risk a bit to become a better society.
criminals don’t care what government do. They will find a replacement for cash, like cigarettes, coffee, chocolate, sexual favors, etc etc
And that would be why we still have police.
Having a Food card that prohibits certain stores, or certain foods, or certain hygiene articles etc etc is not going to make your life easier.
Doing that would have to be illegal and any government that tries should immediately go to jail for a minimum of 5 years. I did say strict rules about it.
those that are rich or very rich already have their cash less society, and their bank accounts in switzerland, singapore, hong kong and london and they still don’t pay any tax.
That requires other tax and law changes but one point I should point out is that, with a cashless society, NZ$ would only exist in NZ on the government servers.
That requires other tax and law changes but one point I should point out is that, with a cashless society, NZ$ would only exist in NZ on the government servers.
oh you mean like the difference between the “finance rate” and the “interest rate” in a consumer debt agreement?
The bank takes money from you for holding your deposit. Thats effectively a negative interest rate, albeit you are correct technically that it is not the same thing.
[The bank takes money from you for holding your deposit. Thats effectively a negative interest rate, albeit you are correct technically that it is not the same thing.]
Interest charged, whether positive or negative, is proportional to the amount deposited and varies with the duration. A bank charge is a fixed charge intended to cover the bank’s processing costs.
We could of course avoid both negative interest and and bank charges by only using cash. Which would be one reason the banking fraternity would be very much in favour of bringing about a cashless society.
to cover the bank’s processing costs? I know what you are saying but that is not true. Its straight out gouging of our economy to the tune of billions a year.
You can regard those charges and interest as separate or categorise them differently as much as you like but the bottom line is that they are taking money off you for holding your deposit and you can calculate that as an effective negative interest rate based on the principal that you have with them.
[You can regard those charges and interest as separate or categorise them differently as much as you like but the bottom line is that they are taking money off you for holding your deposit and you can calculate that as an effective negative interest rate based on the principal that you have with them.]
If we were to abolish (positive) interest I don’t see how the the banks could remain in business were it not for bank charges. Even state owned banks wouldn’t want to have to rely on subsidies from the taxpayer to meet their running costs.
not sure what world you are living in man, if you’ve been following the news, the banks with direct access to the Fed funds window get their money for free, then lend it to us charging us shitloads.
Lack of bank profitability is not an issue we are facing right now but i am sure that the banksters find your concern touching.
[not sure what world you are living in man, if you’ve been following the news, the banks with direct access to the Fed funds window get their money for free, then lend it to us charging us shitloads.]
Whatever. Bank charges and interest (positive or negative) are still two different things. So if the banks charged negative interest on deposits it would place an additional burden on depositors – additional, that is, to bank charges, which are generally accepted by customers as a reasonable charge for the services provided in operating cheque accounts, clearing of cheques, provision of plastic cards, etc. If the banks started charging negative interest I would want to be able to take my money out of the bank and operate mostly in cash. This however would not be possible in a cashless society.
1. the private sector allready has all the information, especially the banks.
2. loose your card in the morning, or have your bag stolen, and not know it for a few hours….your idendity is stolen, and your money is gone, and someone signed you up for a loan. Happens all the time, and been happening for years. Even when peeps call in to cancel a card, with wave and pay the chances are you are gonna loose more than a bit.
3. Identity theft, and subsequent financial abuse is a big issue. It does not just happens every now and then. This is what the FBI says about financial crime together with Identity theft.
4. In cash less world the cops will be payed off with Cigarettes, booze, sex, chocolate etc etc etc. They will be as corrupt as they are today.
5. Food cards have been already introduced by WINZ http://www.workandincome.govt.nz/individuals/payment-card/ and now, the approved businesses that one can use are not forcibly the cheapest businesses to use for someone on welfare. (but heck we must take away choice in the name of welfare fraud, lest they buy something that offends our, mine, yours and humpty dumpty sensibilitys. Cause we all know lazy, bludgers and the likes. – Still waiting for the government to resign.
6. And the government servers are immune to hacking, will never crash, always work and …..Novo pay?
1. Yes and they shouldn’t
2. and 3
3. Last time I lost a CC I called them up and they asked me what was my last transaction stopping it from that point. There hadn’t been any other transactions but I’m sure that they would have taken the correct action in correcting them if there had been including the return of any monies spent. Can’t do that with cash
4. Which means we need procedures that find and correct that corruption
5. yep and they need to be removed
6. Nope but then, neither is cash – stolen wallets have been around forever. And Novopoay wasn’t a government problem per se but a private sector problem brought about by the dismantling of government over the last 30 years
Odd that there are a number who post here that seemingly can’t or won’t connect the dots between the total financial disaster foisted upon the planet and its inhabitants and the to move towards a ‘cashless’ society
Note: Cashless can’t and won’t work unless all nations implement it at the same time and if that ‘big bang’ was to come into effect the consequences would be nothing short of catastrophic
It is impossible to rid the world of cash money and impossible to police the creation of ‘unofficial’ forms of cash money which is why the exercise is propaganda which has been openly talked about by the establishments for an age now
In my opinion the forces behind this blindly believe such a system of control will lead to the utopian digitized slave state but are forcing the swing back towards localized production and community based society as human beings realize what is necessary for the their own survival
1. It would be near impossible to lose money. Sure, you could drop your swipe card but that can easily be replaced and any money spent via it returned and the thief caught.
What you meant to say is it will be impossible to stop the bank or other institutions taking your ‘money’
2. It would be impossible for someone to break in to the server and steal your money that way either. They can’t transfer it out to another country because any NZ$ outside of the server doesn’t exist and any internal transfer will be readily apparent even if the hackers managed to hide their own tracks.
Your faith in technology is bizarre and your understandings primitive while simultaneously endorsing Capital controls which will be immediately implemented and you can wave good-bye to freedom of movement….for everyone else
3. Taxes. It would be incredibly easy for IRD to track where money is going and thus be able to determine who owes what taxes. In fact, they could do it in real time making a Financial Transaction Tax viable (At the moment implementation of an FTT would have many people moving to cash to prevent having to pay the tax).
Corporations already do business electronically so you have not thought this through at all
4. Crime. Money laundering would be a thing of the past. It’s difficult to launder ill-gotten cash when it doesn’t exist. Other crime networks would also be easily detected. Essentially, crime that involves money would be gone along with the money laundering.
Q. You understand the crime networks own and control the financial systems eh ?
The banks will continue laundering they will not even break stride while stopping your access anytime they like
5. Inflation could be more accurately measured. Instead of having people go around shops recording the prices for a basket of goods all sales would be reported back with the system then automatically measuring inflation in near real time.
You don’t understand what you’re talking about or what inflation is or the causes
6. The recording of every sale would be great for informing people where they would get the best deal via a government funded website similar to PriceSpy.
Yes we are aware of your big brother authoritarian preferences which you openly parade once again
You don’t understand what you’re talking about or what inflation is or the causes
It’s bizarre actually as current day point of sale systems already allow real time monitoring of economic activity and prices throughout the retail and service sectors.
The problem being that it’s the corporates with the information and not the people. And that information is then used against the people rather than supporting them.
The information is already there, its already being collected in real time, the infrastructure already exists to do all of that, further the government already has the capability to take all that information, sort it search it and store it into perpetuity
Seems to me the answer is already right there in front of our faces if you want to go down that road (to a turnkey authoritarian central state).
What you meant to say is it will be impossible to stop the bank or other institutions taking your ‘money’
No, if I’d meant that then I would have said that.
… endorsing Capital controls which will be immediately implemented and you can wave good-bye to freedom of movement….for everyone else
That’s below your usual standard of meaningless drivel but still meaningless.
Corporations already do business electronically so you have not thought this through at all
Actually, I have. The problem is that you didn’t get the full article which states that the servers would be government owned and no NZ$ would exist outside of those servers. This means that it would be very easy to trace where money has gone and thus what taxes the corporations owe on it.
You understand the crime networks own and control the financial systems eh ?
Which, again, is why I keep saying that our monetary system needs to be removed from the control of the corporates.
You don’t understand what you’re talking about or what inflation is or the causes
Yes I do.
Yes we are aware of your big brother authoritarian preferences which you openly parade once again
Allowing people to see where they can get the best deal is Big Brother? Man, are you fucken delusional.
Allowing people to see where they can get the best deal is Big Brother? Man, are you fucken delusional
No it’s the faith in such systems who would own the systems and how the information will be used is delusional
Before we even begin to discuss the delusion that the ‘government’ will be in control of any such systems
Q. How do you propose the government will ‘assume control’ over the private banking system which currently operates throughout most of the worlds nations ?
Q. Do you believe governments event want to take control ?
How do you propose the government will ‘assume control’ over the private banking system which currently operates throughout most of the worlds nations ?
I don’t expect them to. I expect them to assume control of the NZ system and integrate it into the global systems. I expect other governments to follow suit.
Do you believe governments event want to take control ?
This is an important point about democracy – it’s not parliament that are the government but the people.
I don’t expect them to. I expect them to assume control of the NZ system and integrate it into the global systems. I expect other governments to follow suit.
Q. How would you remove the barrier of ‘state capture’ ?
Do you believe governments event want to take control ?
This is an important point about democracy – it’s not parliament that are the government but the people.
Yeah great but that’s currently not the situation going around the Western World
Dude the way you insist that centralised infrastructure locking people in to establishment systems is the only way ahead, is pretty bloody scary.
Its like you have never paid attention to how payment systems are used by the elite as weapons of war against Russia, Wikileaks, Kim Dotcom etc. Anybody and any organisation the establishment of the day thinks is a dissenter and a threat to them. And now you want to tie everyone in NZ to similar?
The modern Left appears riven with incoherancy and incongruent principles. Patients rights but force vaccinations. Abortions more available but treasure babies. Cut down emissions but increase consumption of the masses.
a fair question. The pot needs to be stirred if there is any hope of this stew getting better. The pro-establishment greasers and the political careerists won’t.
btw the “modern right” are just as locked into ultimately self defeating behaviours. They just spend more of the time in power during.
Chur. The older I get the less of an establishment loyalist I feel like being. Especially when “the establishment” is that which has lead us to this shite place in history.
“Abortions more available but treasure babies”
These aren’t contradictory. Indeed a society that protects the rights and wellbeing of women is going to be a better society for babies.
Its like you have never paid attention to how payment systems are used by the elite as weapons of war against Russia, Wikileaks, Kim Dotcom etc.
I’m quite aware of that which is why I keep saying, and you keep ignoring, that these systems need to be removed from the elites control.
Anybody and any organisation the establishment of the day thinks is a dissenter and a threat to them. And now you want to tie everyone in NZ to similar?
They’re already in that position – I want to remove them from it.
The point that you seem to fail to understand is that we do need a system. It’s not optional.
Dunno who the uncorruptible angels you are going to get to run your all seeing all reaching system.
I don’t expect incorruptible angels – I expect everyone to have a say/voice/power rather than just a few. Overall, everyone isn’t corruptible but a few are.
I don’t expect incorruptible angels – I expect everyone to have a say/voice/power rather than just a few. Overall, everyone isn’t corruptible but a few are
Q. Will you be proposing a solution about how you foresee this coming about ?
“It amazes me that all these warriors of the air don’t regularly crash into each other…”
Into this mess walks New Zealand troops ….at the command of jonkey Nactional and chicken hawks
…the New Zealand Labour Party along with the Green Party and NZF and Mana/Int co-Left ( who opposed sending them there in the first place)…..should demand NZ troops are pulled out now!
Chooky. The article on the sidebar “After Vietnam: changes in imperialist strategy” gives a different take on the Middle East activity. Essentially that the West now has learned to get the unfortunates to carry out the bloodshed by proxy. Suits us to see the barbaric bad guys as an excuse to carry out remote “defence” activity. No more disasters labelling USA as bad guys as in Vietnam eg MiLai Massacre. https://rdln.wordpress.com/2015/05/23/after-vietnam-changes-in-imperialist-strategy/
Camp Taji, were NZ’s troops are stationed is surrounded by ISIS on three sides with one side open towards Baghdad. Baghdad is facing an ISIS assault. That is according to the New York Times propaganda rag du jour in the US (Responsible for the yellow cake story that got the US invading Iraq in 2003 in the first place) that is.
The distance between ISIS troops and Camp Taji is only ± 15 km.
Vice President Joe Biden declared in early April that “ISIL’s momentum in Iraq has halted, and in many places, has been flat-out reversed.”
A couple of weeks later, the President proved equally upbeat following a meeting with Iraqi leader Haider al-Abadi: “We are making serious progress in pushing back ISIL out of Iraqi territory. About a quarter of the territory fallen under Daesh control has been recovered. Thousands of strikes have not only taken ISIL fighters off the war theater, but their infrastructure has been deteriorated and decayed. And under Prime Minister Abadi’s leadership, the Iraqi security forces have been rebuilt and are getting re-equipped, retrained, and strategically deployed across the country.”
But that was so last month. Post-Ramadi, conservatives like Washington Post columnist Charles Krauthammer, former U.S. Ambassador to the United Nations John Bolton, and Sen. Lindsey Graham, R-South Carolina, have lost no time in labeling such views out of touch and “delusional.” And, indeed, Obama sounded strangely detached on Tuesday when he told The Atlantic that ISIS’s advance was not a defeat.
“No, I don’t think we’re losing,” he said, adding: “There’s no doubt there was a tactical setback, although Ramadi had been vulnerable for a very long time, primarily because these are not Iraqi security forces that we have trained or reinforced.” It was rather like the captain of the Titanic telling passengers that the gash below the waterline was a minor opening that would soon be repaired.
Because the mainstream media only report what the Defence Force wants them to. Journalists get to be embedded within military forces on the ground, only if they tow the line and report what the hierarchy wants.
John Pilger talks a little about general western media bias here, from 12:40 in: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=41YTAZHIWN8
The first really big polar blast of the season arriving today, straight off the edge of Antarctica. Bundle up folks, esp in the South which is expecting heavy dumps of snow.
US government documents show rise of ISIS was predicted, supported and considered an “asset” in getting rid of Assad
Supporting militant Sunni extremism in Syria and Iraq would also act to curb Iranian influence, it was noted. Fueling militant Islamic extremism in Syria/Iraq has also given the same security and surveillance state the excuse to demand more power and more budgets to use on its own western citizens.
However, the newly declassified Pentagon report proves unambiguously that years before ISIS launched its concerted offensive against Iraq, the US intelligence community was fully aware that Islamist militants constituted the core of Syria’s sectarian insurgency.
Despite that, the Pentagon continued to support the Islamist insurgency, even while anticipating the probability that doing so would establish an extremist Salafi stronghold in Syria and Iraq.
As Shoebridge told me, “The documents show that not only did the US government at the latest by August 2012 know the true extremist nature and likely outcome of Syria’s rebellion”?—?namely, the emergence of ISIS?—?“but that this was considered an advantage for US foreign policy. This also suggests a decision to spend years in an effort to deliberately mislead the West’s public, via a compliant media, into believing that Syria’s rebellion was overwhelmingly ‘moderate.’”
Pepe Escobar refers to this as the empire of chaos.
the US has history of shipping in Islamic militants, training and arming them, in order to undermine entire states. And interesting isnt it how despite all these anti ISIS US airstrikes, ISIS is able to close in on Damascus and Assad quite rapidly.
Something Draco has often bought up here is the need for us to get out of the mindset of needless duplication, i.e. everyone having everything in every home.
This looks like an example of a step in an interesting direction: Four tiny homes on a shared piece of land. Each tiny home has its own bathroom, but the kitchen and living area is in a shared building.
Yep. And these solutions are not new. Communitarian or social accommodation. Barracks, student hostels and monastaries all have set ups with similar principles. Simply update with modern ideas and for the modern sensibility – and voila – save a tonne of money on corporatised retirement accomodation.
Nice overview article. Biggest thing stopping this from happening in NZ is the lack of legal models for shared ownership.
Chch was an ideal opportunity to work with these alternative housing options. I think a few people have done tiny homes there but not the shared resources bit.
Biggest thing stopping this from happening in NZ is the lack of legal models for shared ownership.
???
What do you mean??? Shared ownership of financial assets is an utterly standard situation. Whether it is company shareholders, spouses or people who have an account at a bank or managed by a hedgefund.
Outside of marriage it’s rare for people in NZ to share ownership of homes/land. It does happen but we don’t have good cultural practice yet on how to do it, and people get stuck on assets issues, what happens when someone wants out, how to make decisions collectively etc.
There are many people wanting to do this but few really good examples that can be easily replicated. I know about it from people trying to go this with larger pieces of land, and it’s possible it might be easier on smaller suburban blocks. But again, Chch was the obvious opportunity and it hasn’t really happened. I think that’s because the right models don’t exist yet.
Thanks. Let me clarify, by ‘model’ I mean the whole thing not just the legal structure. See my comment to CV above. Probably should have left the word legal out of my first comment.
Everything from traditional Kiwi flatmates (shared cooking and shared bills) to communal student hostel living and everything in-between. There are many models and ideas familar to NZ culture to pick from. And if they don’t work, try out a Pasifika or Maori model extended family mode of living.
weka, I already answered above that there are many options for shared or joint legal ownership of assets including property.
Now it is hardly my fault if you cannot accurately formulate what you are asking for. Ownership of assets falls under the area of commercial and property law. It’s very clear.
I’m not asking for anything. I’m sharing some experience. I’m talking about what ordinary people are trying to do in sharing ownership of homes and why that is difficult in NZ. I’m guessing you are commenting again from a place of poor knowledge. If you can’t tell the difference between ownership and flatting, you could try listening instead of pontificating.
If a group of people buy land together with the intention of forming community, some of the issues that arise are around how to make decisions, and how to remove assets if someone wants to leave. Yes, the technicals on that exist, but how it plays out in real life isn’t always so straight forward (eg what happens if you want to sell but the other owners get to have a say in who buys in and you can’t find someone suitable?). There’s also a whole class thing that happens as well, around people with assets and how they protect them vs how they share them.
And how to just get on with each other in a living situation that many aren’t used to (I agree with you that Māori and Pasifika are better at this than Pākehā). The ‘model’ I am referring to is how to navigate this without having to reinvent the wheel all the time. Lots of people in NZ have done various models, and many have failed (esp intentional communities). There are some good successes too, but my original comment was pointing to these things not being cultural norms yet, so both regulations and patterns of relating haven’t evolved to support them.
In the linked article, the couples have known each other for 20 years. That makes a big difference.
Co-housing seems one of the more successful models in NZ, but most cohousing is for people with large buy in (eg they sell an existing house/have a big mortgage). I was interested in the article that was looking at medium level buy in (although I don’t think they talk about the land price), plus what felix was pointing to about shared ammenities.
I know of a few groups of people who’ve done rural subdivisions privately where the land is owned collectively but each family builds their own home. You need a certain group of people who know and trust each other for that to work. It does work, but it’s not common and I think the reason for that is that both around regulations on rural land, and that we’re not that good at sharing when it comes to larges amounts of assets, or how to make decisions in small groups once we get past whānau size. These are not unresolvable problems, we’re just not there yet.
Beyond that, and esp in response to what Maui said, I’m thinking of even lower buy ins. The moveable tiny home allows people more flexibility re commitment, and is way cheaper if land is rented instead of bought. There are still issues on how to live together.
Community Land Trusts are one of the models now being used in NZ. I’m not sure how successful that is yet and the one I am familiar with still has a substantial buy in.
There are a lot of nuances that you raise, and important ones weka.
In olden days, blood ties, tribal ties, religious ties, formed the basis of the trust, mutual understanding and common culture required for these things to work and work well.
I agree with you that its more difficult now and that it depends on each specific situation and each specific group of people and their dynamics.
If people want to be really arms length and independent away from each other then residential units or town house units might be used. But that’s not really communitarian living either.
what I find is that if you ask people you know who are talking about housing or home ownership whether they would share land with others, most people will just say no flat out, others will say yeah maybe, but it’s generally unclear what it means and how to do it and when they realise it’s a lot of work that becomes a barrier. A few will respond positively. What we need are models that make it much easier for the middle group to be more interested, as simple as say buying a house, or renting long term.
“In olden days, blood ties, tribal ties, religious ties, formed the basis of the trust, mutual understanding and common culture required for these things to work and work well.”
Yep that’s the one.
“If people want to be really arms length and independent away from each other then residential units or town house units might be used. But that’s not really communitarian living either.”
True, but it’s probably a step in the right direction. The set up in that article looks much more workable for most people I know than say an intentional community where families are more in each others space. It’s a mix of own space and shared space, and it sounds like they figured out how to make it work for them specifically. That’s closer to what most of us have been raised with so it makes sense.
Appreciate you taking the time to share the thoughts you have on this topic. I think this kind of project is going to be an important way forward for many.
Yep sign me up! I’ve thought about looking for a small piece of land to put a tiny house on. Unfortunately land parcels don’t come in sizes of 50sqm.. Minimum Lot sizes where I live would be around 300sqm according to Council zoning, so no chance of subdividing existing land. The most feasible way would be finding a friendly farmer who doesn’t mind you renting a portion of paddock.
The great thing about moveable tiny homes is they circumvent so many regulations. Renting land is going to be a good option for many going forward. It also means no mortgage and thus not supporting the pro-CC global economy.
Yeah, I would. The trouble is I don’t really know anyone else who wants to do this – maybe it’s time to join the Transition Towns group. And then finding a vacant piece of land close to the city is important for me too.
There will be a lawyer or planner here who can give you suggestions. From an amateur standpoint it sounds to me like you need a bit of land which can be zoned for high density housing. Buy the land as a group. Buildings can then come and go on to the land leasehold. Just an example. Need to talk to the local council and its planners early on as if the concept does not fit into the district plan in some way, it won’t be able to proceed.
Alternatively, find a group of people and buy a 5 bedroom house together. Knock off the mortgage collectively in a few years. It’s then collective and supportive living in your own home – for the younger set it’d be called flatting.
Another solution is the movable cabin (less than 10 sq m so no need for building consent). A shared utility provides the kitchen, bathroom (building consent required here – but once that hurdle over your on your way). Decks between cabins and utility allow flow. A separate cabin as communal living space.
I’ve seen a number of these springing up at my local beach. 4 or 5 small cabins linked by decks sharing a communal utility and living space.
No need for a 10m2 cabin to be movable. Schedule 1 of the building act applies. The important part is that to be legal as sleeping acom, it must be used in connection with a dwelling on the same property, which is where the fully consented kitchen/bathroom/living room comes in.
As long as you have this legal “dwelling” on the property, and your 10m2 buildings contain no cooking or sanitary facilities, you can have as many of them as you like. There may be restrictions on how many people can live on your property at any one time, but that’s a question for your local council.
You also have to make sure they’re no closer to each other or to any building or boundary than their own height.
It lists all the building work that you can do without a permit. Clause 3 is the relevant one in this matter.
The work still needs to comply with the building code standards (NZS:3604) so you can’t build them out out cellophane and coat hangers.
And as noted above, you still need to comply with the district plan for your area as well.
BUT as long as you haven’t made enemies with your council officers or your neighbours you’re probably not going to be inspected, and you can avoid all the extra cost and hassle of the consent process.
Jointly buy a decent sized section with a small house on it. Due diligence on the LIM to ensure that all consents are present and correct. Then build a number of those 10m2 sleeping huts around the site, within what is considered a permitted activity.
Ideally there would be money (and consents) to refit the main house as a common space; additional bathroom, open plan living area/dining, high capacity kitchen etc.
Whole thing could be owned as a company with the residents as shareholders; people could then buy in/sell their shares and come and go as their life circumstances required.
LOL. Well, social isolation is a killer; if there was a common area with a bar, a pool table, some arcades and board games, hobby space, piano etc. that would be a lot of fun. A different kind of living than sitting in front of a screen surfing the interwebs 😯 lolz
Felix, what’s the limit on how many dwellings with kitchen/bathrooms you can have on a residential site?
The advantages of having it be moveable are that you don’t need building consent above the 10m2 (which makes it much cheaper), and you don’t have to own land. It’s a very affordable way to get housing for people that either build, or pay someone to build.
Or in Macro’s scenario, you don’t need the cost of a consented shared amenities block.
(I have a feeling some councils have reduced the minimum dwelling size to prevent people from doing this).
“what’s the limit on how many dwellings with kitchen/bathrooms you can have on a residential site?”
That’s down to the zone rules of your local District Plan. Where I am it’s one, or one + an ancillary dwelling (sometimes called dependent person’s dwelling or granny flat, which contains all facilities but is limited to a certain maximum size). I don’t know how much this varies from place to place.
Macro’s scenario still includes a shared utilities building of some sort. This has to be consented.
Ah yes that’s right. Sewerage and greywater, and stormwater, and probably a potable water supply.
And if your section is big enough and in the applicable zone you’re allowed to dispose of all of that on site (with an engineer’s design specific to your site for the council to approve), so that could work with a mobile building of some sort.
Yes I have a mobile building at my beach section – its actually bigger than 10 sq m and comes in 2 parts that are wheeled onto the site and then placed together. The advantage is that it can be quickly built off site and located and ready to use within the day, and moved t a new site if necessary. I bought mine new about 7 years ago and it has been moved from just north of Auckland to the Coromandel Peninsula in that time.
We have this technology in NZ and i never ceases to depress and astound me that such buildings were never employed to house those who lost there homes in Christchurch. It takes 6 weeks to construct these small dwellings and they are of a very high standard complete with bathroom 2 bedrooms and well equipped kitchen. carpeted, outside deck areas, the lot. I understand Alan Gibbs has one on his property north of Helensville as well – so it gives you some idea of the standard of finish.
+ zillion re Chch. They could have set up apprentice and owner/builder schemes too, so they would have upskilled a whole bunch of locals. Instead the dumb fucks in charge spend all that money at the start on motorhomes that no-one wanted to live in.
What’s involved in the move Macro? Is the building towable? By what?
the web site is here: http://www.go-homes.co.nz/
They are transported to the site then moved into position using a standard 4×4 ute. Hooked up to facilities – caravan plug (builders pole), water, waste can be normal sewage collection – but we used a separate septic system on the farm (separate grey water and black water) http://www.naturalflow.co.nz/
Have you seen the recent posts here on TS re. XX not even trying anymore with the nice middle digit gesture? Key has never tried because he never has, he doesn’t, and never will give a shit; it has nothing to do with ineptness although there’s a lot of that too.
The paradox is that the Labour leadership (not just in Britain but elsewhere in the English speaking democracies as well) are so paralysed by fear and lack of confidence that they have failed to notice that the world has moved on. All the major central banks have abandoned the cautious conservatism of conventional monetary policy. The IMF has turned its back on austerity as a proper response to recession. The OECD says that inequality is not the price that has to be paid for economic efficiency but is a major obstacle to that efficiency.
Other countries have shown how living standards higher than our own can be raised still further through an appropriate policy mix. The way is open to learn from them and to offer the British people a new approach to running the economy – one that does not require us to choose between social justice and economic efficiency (or, for that matter, between Labour’s core values and Tory “aspiration”) but that recognises that we will all be better off if we give proper value to all our citizens and to the contribution they can all make to the general welfare. There is no mystery as to how this can be done if we only open our eyes; the necessary policy levers are just waiting to be pulled.
Ok, so basically he’s saying Labour needs a new Vision because they can’t move left or right.
“As to precisely what alternatives should be adopted, why not at least begin to think about them? They are not in short supply.”
For the uninitiated, what policy ideas do you think Gould is thinking of for Labour?
I think he’s saying that Labour need to stand on principles again and to believe in those principles. The RWNJs are wrong but they believe in what they’re saying and people can tell. Labour, on the other hand, don’t really believe in what they’re saying largely because they’re saying the same things as the RWNJs and people can tell that too.
It’s pretty much a giveaway when both major parties are selling the same vision.
The remits up for discussion today at the Labour Region 5 conference were clearly concerned about that. Linking minimum wage to the average wage so they move upward of their own accord rather than at a politician’s whim, taxing wealth as well as income, UBI (some of the remits had clearly come from someone who had read the Big Kahuna), abolishing youth, training and starting out minimum wage rates, repealing a number of ERA amendments, promoting collective bargaining and awards etc.
The Future of Work was also a big part of the day’s activities, as Grant Robertson gave a speech and then we did some workshopping on it. This commission’s work will inform Labour policy in this area, and is huge. UBI was also brought up here, and I suspect will become Labour policy at some point in the nearish future.
Housing was brought up, and it is acknowledged as a big part of any future Labour government.
Photo: Lynn Grieveson / The KākāTL;DR: My top six things to note around housing, climate and poverty in Aotearoa’s political economy in the week to July 27 were:1. The Minister for Ford Rangers strikes againTransport Minister Simeon Brown was again the busiest of the Cabinet ministers this week, announcing an ...
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TL;DR: As of 6:00 am on Friday, July 26, the top six announcements, speeches, reports and research around housing, climate and poverty in Aotearoa’s political economy in the last day are:Transport: Simeon Brown announced$802.9 million in funding for 18 new trains on the Wairarapa and Manawatū rail lines, which ...
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Photo by Joshua J. Cotten on UnsplashWe’re back again after our mid-winter break. We’re still with the ‘new’ day of the week (Thursday rather than Friday) when we have our ‘hoon’ webinar with paying subscribers to The Kākā for an hour at 5 pm.Jump on this link on YouTube Livestream ...
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Please note:To skip directly to the- parliamentary footage in the video, scroll to 1:21 To skip to audio please click on the headphone iconon the left hand side of the screenThis video / audio section is under development. ...
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An employee of tobacco company Philip Morris International demonstrates a heated tobacco device. Photo: Getty ImagesTL;DR: The top six things I’ve noted around housing, climate and poverty in Aotearoa’s political economy on Friday, July 19 are:At a time when the Coalition Government is cutting spending on health, infrastructure, education, housing ...
TL;DR: My pick of the top six links elsewhere around housing, climate and poverty in Aotearoa’s political economy in the last day or so to 8:30 am on Friday, July 19 are:Scoop: NZ First Minister Casey Costello orders 50% cut to excise tax on heated tobacco products. The minister has ...
Kia ora, it’s time for another Friday roundup, in which we pull together some of the links and stories that caught our eye this week. Feel free to add more in the comments! Our header image this week shows a foggy day in Auckland town, captured by Patrick Reynolds. ...
TL;DR : Here’s the top six items climate news for Aotearoa this week, as selected by Bernard Hickey and The Kākā’s climate correspondent Cathrine Dyer. A discussion recorded yesterday is in the video above and the audio of that sent onto the podcast feed.The Government released its draft Emissions Reduction ...
Save some money, get rich and old, bring it back to Tobacco Road.Bring that dynamite and a crane, blow it up, start all over again.Roll up. Roll up. Or tailor made, if you prefer...Whether you’re selling ciggies, digging for gold, catching dolphins in your nets, or encouraging folks to flutter ...
Waiting In The Wings:For truly, if Trump is America’s un-assassinated Caesar, then J.D. Vance is America’s Octavian, the Republic’s youthful undertaker – and its first Emperor.DONALD TRUMP’S SELECTION of James D. Vance as his running-mate bodes ill for the American republic. A fervent supporter of Viktor Orban, the “illiberal” prime ...
TL;DR: As of 6:00 am on Friday, July 19, the top six announcements, speeches, reports and research around housing, climate and poverty in Aotearoa’s political economy in the last day are:The PSAannounced the Employment Relations Authority (ERA) had ruled in the PSA’s favour in its case against the Ministry ...
Te Rangi e tu nei (The sky above us) Te Papa e takoto nei (The land beneath us) Tatou katoa te hunga ora (To us all the living) Tena koutou katoa (Greetings) ...
A late change to charter school legislation will cheat educators out of fair pay and negotiating power proving charter schools are just a vehicle to make profit out of our education system. ...
In 2004 te iwi Māori rallied against the Crown’s attempt to confiscate our coastlines and moana with the Foreshore and Seabed Act. This led to the largest hīkoi of a generation and the birth of Te Pāti Māori. 20 years later, history is repeating itself. Today the government has announced ...
It has been five and a half years since the Royal Commission of Inquiry into Abuse in Care was established to investigate the abuse of children, young people, and vulnerable adults within state and faith-based institutions. Yesterday, the final report - Whanaketia through pain and trauma, from darkness to light ...
The Green Party is calling on the Government to take action off the back of the International Court of Justice ruling on Israel’s illegal occupation of Palestine. ...
On Friday the International Court of Justice reaffirmed what Palestinian’s have been telling us for decades: that the occupation and colonisation of Palestinian lands by Israel is illegal and must end immediately. They also called for reparations for Palestinian’s who have lived under Israeli occupation since it began in 1967. ...
Labour calls on the Government to act after the International Court of Justice (ICJ) ruled that Israel’s occupation of Palestinian Territories is illegal. ...
The 53.7 percent rise in benefit sanctions over the last year is more proof of this Government’s disdain for our communities most in need of support. ...
Aotearoa could be a country where every child grows up feeling safe, loved and with a sense of belonging in their whānau and community. But for some of our children, this is far from reality. Instead, they are trapped in a maze of intergenerational harm that they can’t escape on ...
Te Pāti Māori are calling for David Seymour to resign as Associate Health Minister in response to his call for Pharmac to ignore the Treaty of Waitangi. “This announcement is just another example of the government’s anti-Tiriti, anti-Māori agenda.” Said Co-leader and spokesperson for health, Debbie Ngarewa-Packer. “Seymour thinks it ...
The soaring price of renting is driving the rise of inflation in this country - with latest figures from Stats NZ showing rents are up 4.8 per cent on average while annual inflation is at 3.3 per cent. ...
National’s Emissions Reduction Plan will take New Zealand further from the economy we need to ensure the next generation has a stable climate and secure livelihoods. ...
Following consultation with named parties and thorough consideration of privacy interests, the Green Party is in a position to release the Executive Summary of the final report from the independent investigation into Darleen Tana. ...
Prime Minister Christopher Luxon should be asking serious questions of his Minister for Resources Shane Jones now it’s been revealed he misled the public about a dinner with mining companies that he didn’t declare and said wasn’t pre-arranged. ...
Te Pāti Māori have submitted to the Justice Select Committee against the Sentencing (Reinstating Three Strikes) Amendment Bill. The bill will further entrench racism in our justice system and fails to focus on rehabilitation. “Reinstating Three Strikes will empower a systematically racist system and exacerbate the overrepresentation of Māori in ...
The Transport and Infrastructure Committee is set to make a determination on the Residential Tenancies Amendment (RTA) Bill in the coming weeks. “This legislation will give landlords the power to kick our whānau out onto the street for no reason” said Housing spokesperson, Mariameno Kapa-Kingi. “Their solution to the housing ...
“National’s campaign was about tackling crime and the best they can do is a two-year long Ministerial Advisory Group,” Labour justice spokesperson Duncan Webb said. ...
“There are more examples of charter schools failing their students than there are success stories. The coalition Government is driving to dismantle our public school system and instead promote a privatised, competitive structure that puts profits before kids,” Jan Tinetti said. ...
“This government is choosing to deliberately mislead and withhold information, keeping our people in the dark about this government’s agenda and the future of our mokopuna,” said co-leader and spokesperson for Health, Debbie Ngarewa-Packer. The call comes after the demand from the Chief Ombudsman that Associate Minister of Health, Casey ...
“Today’s climate announcement by Simon Watts makes clear the National Government is simply paying lip service to meeting its climate change targets,” Megan Woods said. ...
National is choosing to make life harder for workers by taking away the rights our communities have fought hard for. Here's how they’re taking workers backwards. ...
Australia, Canada and New Zealand today issued the following statement on the need for an urgent ceasefire in Gaza and the risk of expanded conflict between Hizballah and Israel. The situation in Gaza is catastrophic. The human suffering is unacceptable. It cannot continue. We remain unequivocal in our condemnation of ...
Attorney-General Judith Collins today reminded all State and faith-based institutions of their legal obligation to preserve records relevant to the safety and wellbeing of those in its care. “The Abuse in Care Inquiry’s report has found cases where records of the most vulnerable people in State and faith‑based institutions were ...
Minister of Internal Affairs Brooke van Velden says the Government’s online safety website for children and young people has reached one million page views. “It is great to see so many young people and their families accessing the site Keep It Real Online to learn how to stay safe online, and manage ...
Tēnā tātou katoa, Ngā mihi te rangi, ngā mihi te whenua, ngā mihi ki a koutou, kia ora mai koutou. Thank you for the opportunity to be here and the invitation to speak at this 50th anniversary conference. I acknowledge all those who have gone before us and paved the ...
New Zealand’s payroll providers have successfully prepared to ensure 3.5 million individuals will, from Wednesday next week, be able to keep more of what they earn each pay, says Finance Minister Nicola Willis and Revenue Minister Simon Watts. “The Government's tax policy changes are legally effective from Wednesday. Delivering this tax ...
An experimental vineyard which will help futureproof the wine sector has been opened in Blenheim by Associate Regional Development Minister Mark Patterson. The covered vineyard, based at the New Zealand Wine Centre – Te Pokapū Wāina o Aotearoa, enables controlled environmental conditions. “The research that will be produced at the Experimental ...
The Coalition Government has confirmed the indicative regional breakdown of North Island Weather Event (NIWE) funding for state highway recovery projects funded through Budget 2024, Transport Minister Simeon Brown says. “Regions in the North Island suffered extensive and devastating damage from Cyclone Gabrielle and the 2023 Auckland Anniversary Floods, and ...
Indonesia’s Foreign Minister, Retno Marsudi, will visit New Zealand next week, Foreign Minister Winston Peters has announced. “Indonesia is important to New Zealand’s security and economic interests and is our closest South East Asian neighbour,” says Mr Peters, who is currently in Laos to engage with South East Asian partners. ...
He aha te kai a te rangatira? He kōrero, he kōrero, he kōrero. The government has reaffirmed its commitment to supporting the aspirations of Ngāti Maniapoto, Minister for Māori Development Tama Potaka says. “My thanks to Te Nehenehenui Trust – Ngāti Maniapoto for bringing their important kōrero to a ministerial ...
Transport Minister Simeon Brown has thanked outgoing Chair of the Civil Aviation Authority, Janice Fredric, for her service to the board.“I have received Ms Fredric’s resignation from the role of Chair of the Civil Aviation Authority,” Mr Brown says.“On behalf of the Government, I want to thank Ms Fredric for ...
The Government is proposing legislation to overturn a Court of Appeal decision and amend the Marine and Coastal Area Act in order to restore Parliament’s test for Customary Marine Title, Treaty Negotiations Minister Paul Goldsmith says. “Section 58 required an applicant group to prove they have exclusively used and occupied ...
Regulation Minister David Seymour says that opposition parties have united in bad faith, opposing what they claim are ‘dangerous changes’ to the Early Childhood Education sector, despite no changes even being proposed yet. “Issues with affordability and availability of early childhood education, and the complexity of its regulation, has led ...
After receiving more than 740 submissions in the first 20 days, Regulation Minister David Seymour is asking the Ministry for Regulation to extend engagement on the early childhood education regulation review by an extra two weeks. “The level of interest has been very high, and from the conversations I’ve been ...
The Coalition Government is investing $802.9 million into the Wairarapa and Manawatū rail lines as part of a funding agreement with the NZ Transport Agency (NZTA), KiwiRail, and the Greater Wellington and Horizons Regional Councils to deliver more reliable services for commuters in the lower North Island, Transport Minister Simeon ...
Local Government Minister Simeon Brown has announced his intention to appoint a Crown Manager to both Hawke’s Bay Regional and Wairoa District Councils to speed up the delivery of flood protection work in Wairoa."Recent severe weather events in Wairoa this year, combined with damage from Cyclone Gabrielle in 2023 have ...
Mr Speaker, this is a day that many New Zealanders who were abused in State care never thought would come. It’s the day that this Parliament accepts, with deep sorrow and regret, the Report of the Royal Commission of Inquiry into Abuse in Care. At the heart of this report are the ...
For the first time, the Government is formally acknowledging some children and young people at Lake Alice Psychiatric Hospital experienced torture. The final report of the Royal Commission of Inquiry into Abuse in State and Faith-based Care “Whanaketia – through pain and trauma, from darkness to light,” was tabled in Parliament ...
The Government has acknowledged the nearly 2,400 courageous survivors who shared their experiences during the Royal Commission of Inquiry into Historical Abuse in State and Faith-Based Care. The final report from the largest and most complex public inquiry ever held in New Zealand, the Royal Commission Inquiry “Whanaketia – through ...
With a week to go before hard-working New Zealanders see personal income tax relief for the first time in fourteen years, 513,000 people have used the Budget tax calculator to see how much they will benefit, says Finance Minister Nicola Willis. “Tax relief is long overdue. From next Wednesday, personal income ...
Workplace Relations and Safety Minister Brooke van Velden says a bill that has passed its first reading will improve parental leave settings and give non-biological parents more flexibility as primary carer for their child. The Regulatory Systems Amendment Bill (No3), passed its first reading this morning. “It includes a change ...
Two Bills designed to improve regulation and make it easier to do business have passed their first reading in Parliament, says Economic Development Minister Melissa Lee. The Regulatory Systems (Economic Development) Amendment Bill and Regulatory Systems (Immigration and Workforce) Amendment Bill make key changes to legislation administered by the Ministry ...
New legislation paves the way for greater competition in sectors such as banking and electricity, Commerce and Consumer Affairs Minister Andrew Bayly says. “Competitive markets boost productivity, create employment opportunities and lift living standards. To support competition, we need good quality regulation but, unfortunately, a recent OECD report ranked New ...
Minister of Internal Affairs Brooke van Velden says lotteries for charitable purposes, such as those run by the Heart Foundation, Coastguard NZ, and local hospices, will soon be allowed to operate online permanently. “Under current laws, these fundraising lotteries are only allowed to operate online until October 2024, after which ...
The Coalition Government is accelerating work on the new four-lane expressway between Auckland and Whangārei as part of its Roads of National Significance programme, with an accelerated delivery model to deliver this project faster and more efficiently, Transport Minister Simeon Brown says. “For too long, the lack of resilient transport connections ...
Sir Don McKinnon will travel to Viet Nam this week as a Special Envoy of the Government, Foreign Minister Winston Peters has announced. “It is important that the Government give due recognition to the significant contributions that General Secretary Nguyen Phu Trong made to New Zealand-Viet Nam relations,” Mr ...
Minister of Internal Affairs Brooke van Velden says newly appointed Commissioner, Grant Illingworth KC, will help deliver the report for the first phase of the Royal Commission of Inquiry into COVID-19 Lessons, due on 28 November 2024. “I am pleased to announce that Mr Illingworth will commence his appointment as ...
Foreign Minister Winston Peters travels to Laos this week to participate in a series of Association of Southeast Asian Nations (ASEAN)-led Ministerial meetings in Vientiane. “ASEAN plays an important role in supporting a peaceful, stable and prosperous Indo-Pacific,” Mr Peters says. “This will be our third visit to ...
Construction of a new mental health facility at Te Nikau Grey Hospital in Greymouth is today one step closer, Mental Health Minister Matt Doocey says. “This $27 million facility shows this Government is delivering on its promise to boost mental health care and improve front line services,” Mr Doocey says. ...
New Zealand is committing nearly $50 million to a package supporting sustainable Pacific fisheries development over the next four years, Foreign Minister Winston Peters and Oceans and Fisheries Minister Shane Jones announced today. “This support consisting of a range of initiatives demonstrates New Zealand’s commitment to assisting our Pacific partners ...
Associate Education Minister David Seymour says proposed changes to the Education and Training Amendment Bill will ensure charter schools have more flexibility to negotiate employment agreements and are equipped with the right teaching resources. “Cabinet has agreed to progress an amendment which means unions will not be able to initiate ...
In response to serious concerns around oversight, overspend and a significant deterioration in financial outlook, the Board of Health New Zealand will be replaced with a Commissioner, Health Minister Dr Shane Reti announced today. “The previous government’s botched health reforms have created significant financial challenges at Health NZ that, without ...
Minister for Space and Science, Innovation and Technology Judith Collins will travel to Adelaide tomorrow for space and science engagements, including speaking at the Australian Space Forum. While there she will also have meetings and visits with a focus on space, biotechnology and innovation. “New Zealand has a thriving space ...
Climate Change Minister Simon Watts will travel to China on Saturday to attend the Ministerial on Climate Action meeting held in Wuhan. “Attending the Ministerial on Climate Action is an opportunity to advocate for New Zealand climate priorities and engage with our key partners on climate action,” Mr Watts says. ...
Oceans and Fisheries Minister Shane Jones is travelling to the Solomon Islands tomorrow for meetings with his counterparts from around the Pacific supporting collective management of the region’s fisheries. The 23rd Pacific Islands Forum Fisheries Committee and the 5th Regional Fisheries Ministers’ Meeting in Honiara from 23 to 26 July ...
The Government today launched the Military Style Academy Pilot at Te Au rere a te Tonga Youth Justice residence in Palmerston North, an important part of the Government’s plan to crackdown on youth crime and getting youth offenders back on track, Minister for Children, Karen Chhour said today. “On the ...
The Government has welcomed news the NZ Transport Agency (NZTA) has begun work to replace nine priority bridges across the country to ensure our state highway network remains resilient, reliable, and efficient for road users, Transport Minister Simeon Brown says.“Increasing productivity and economic growth is a key priority for the ...
Acting Prime Minister David Seymour has been in contact throughout the evening with senior officials who have coordinated a whole of government response to the global IT outage and can provide an update. The Department of the Prime Minister and Cabinet has designated the National Emergency Management Agency as the ...
New Zealand and Japan will continue to step up their shared engagement with the Pacific, Foreign Minister Winston Peters says. “New Zealand and Japan have a strong, shared interest in a free, open and stable Pacific Islands region,” Mr Peters says. “We are pleased to be finding more ways ...
New developments in the heart of North Island forestry country will reinvigorate their communities and boost economic development, Regional Development Minister Shane Jones says. Mr Jones visited Kaingaroa and Kawerau in Bay of Plenty today to open a landmark community centre in the former and a new connecting road in ...
President Adeang, fellow Ministers, honourable Diet Member Horii, Ambassadors, distinguished guests. Minasama, konnichiwa, and good afternoon, everyone. Distinguished guests, it’s a pleasure to be here with you today to talk about New Zealand’s foreign policy reset, the reasons for it, the values that underpin it, and how it ...
Last summer when Matairangi burned, Ginny and Tom stood at the window of their lounge, watching kākā shoot skyward from the burning trees. From the distance, they looked to Ginny like pages torn from books and thrown into a bonfire. It was Tom, voice tight, who told her it was ...
Opinion: The Canadian short story writer Alice Munro – winner of the Nobel Prize in Literature in 2013 – died in May at the age of 92. Her work was about “the damage people inflict on one another in the name of love”, Deborah Treisman wrote in the New Yorker. ...
This month marks two years since the most powerful telescope ever built sent its first pictures back to earth. From its lofty vantage point, beyond the moon in orbit around the sun, the James Webb Space Telescope was tuned to observe the first stars and galaxies being born soon after ...
Comment: After Climate Change Minister Simon Watts’ preview several weeks ago, I had some optimism about the Government’s emissions reduction plan. Now I’ve read the discussion document, that hope has been dashed. How can the Government propose a plan that wants to take New Zealand taxpayers’ hard-earned money, and spend ...
Christopher Luxon: hurdles The little man from National jumps hurdles in his sleep. He’s quite good at it in his dreams and even though the reality doesn’t quite match up you have to give him credit for getting up every morning and crashing into the very first hurdle of the ...
Comment: It was a good two hours into the conversation when Tyrone Marks raised the most basic of questions when I first spoke to him in 2017. “They didn’t explain the things they did to me. They never told me why. And they still haven’t. There’s no explanation for it. ...
Madeleine Chapman rounds out Death Week on The Spinoff with a final recommendation. You can read all of our Death Week coverage here. Nothing forces you to reflect on your life and relationships quite like proximity to death. For those whose nearest and dearest have died, there are reasonably obvious ...
Whitney Greene takes us through her life in television, including the TV character she’d like to plan a funeral for and her cow lung catastrophe on The Traitors NZ. “If the phone rings, I have to answer it,” Whitney Greene from The Traitors NZ warns as we begin our My ...
Maddie Ballard reviews the debut essay collection of Pōneke writer Flora Feltham.In ‘The Raw Material’, the longest essay in Flora Feltham’s dazzling debut collection, the author heads out for a run after hours of weaving and sees the world turn to textile. “Pounding along the Parade, I saw the ...
Andy Christiansen, one half of the experimental rock-pop duo TRiPS, shares the tunes inspiring the band’s perfect weekend and new release. “Good speakers, good food, good music, no distractions”: that’s all you need to enjoy the psychedelic stylings of TRiPS, a new band formed by Fly My Pretties’ Barnaby Weir ...
Celebrating our quadrennial opportunity to become experts in a bunch of sports we never normally watch.The games of the XXXIII Olympiad are upon us. Paris will host this year’s showcase of sporting and athletic prowess, which means some late-night and early-morning viewing for us in Aotearoa.But what sports ...
The photograph is striking and beautiful, but also disturbing – a reminder that my love for John was often entangled in shame.The Sunday Essay is made possible thanks to the support of Creative New Zealand.In the spring of 1980, in Dunedin, shortly before his death, someone took a photograph ...
Get to know Babushka, our latest Dog of the Month. This feature was offered as a reward during our What’s Eating Aotearoa PledgeMe campaign. Thank you to Babu’s humans, Jo and Isabel, for their support. Dog name: Babushka (Babu for short) Age: 2Breed: Border Collie X poodleIf rescued, ...
Pacific Media Watch A Lebanese photojournalist who was severely wounded during an Israeli air strike in south Lebanon carried the Olympic torch in Paris this week in honour of her peers who have been wounded and killed in the field — especially in Gaza and Lebanon. Christina Assi of Agence ...
The first report in a five-part web series focused on the 15th Triennial Conference of Pacific Women taking place in the Marshall Islands this week.SPECIAL REPORT:By Netani Rika in Majuro Women continue to fight for justice 70 years after the first nuclear tests by the United States caused ...
Christopher Luxon has joined with Australia and Canada's leaders in voicing support for US President Joe Biden's ceasefire deal between Israel and Hamas. ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Michelle Grattan, Professorial Fellow, University of Canberra The 2022 election brought the “teal wave” into parliament. The next election will test whether teals, who occupy what were Liberal seats, and other independents can maintain their momentum. Joining us on the Podcast ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Ian Musgrave, Senior lecturer in Pharmacology, University of Adelaide Pixavri/Shutterstock A major Federal Court class action has been dismissed this week after Justice Michael Lee ruled there was not enough evidence to prove the weedkiller Roundup causes cancer. Plaintiff Kelvin ...
In The Week in Politics: politicians have to decide what to do about child abuse, Health NZ is booked in for major surgery and Darleen Tana returns. ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Clare Corbould, Associate Professor, Contemporary Histories Research Group, Deakin University Mainstream media are surprisingly muted at the prospect of the world’s most powerful nation being led for the first time by a woman – specifically a woman of colour, Vice President Kamala ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Rebecca Bennett, PhD Student, Associate Research Fellow, Deakin University Last week, a drone delivery company called Wing (owned by Google’s parent company, Alphabet) started operating in Melbourne. Some 250,000 residents in parts of the city’s eastern suburbs can now order food from ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Jonathan Foo, Lecturer, Physiotherapy, Monash University pikselstock/Shutterstock In the next 40 years in Australia, it’s predicted the number of Australians aged 65 and over will more than double, while the number of people aged 85 and over will more than triple. ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Katrina Grant, Research Associate, Power Institute for Arts and Visual Culture, University of Sydney Jonas Åkerström’s 1790 work, Session of the Accademia dell’Arcadia on August 17 1788.Nationalmuseum/Cecilia Heisser Ever wondered whether you’d have a better chance at winning an Olympic gold ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Alexandra Jones, Program Lead, Food Governance, George Institute for Global Health wavebreakmedia/Shutterstock On Thursday, Australian and New Zealand food ministers at state, federal and national levels met to thrash out what’s next for health star ratings on packaged foods. Now, after ...
The Abuse in Care report found many Pacific survivors lost their connections to their culture and language, resulting in trauma that has been carried from generation to generation. ...
In the regulatory review, ECC intends to suggest that ERO focus on curriculum delivery reviews rather than the Ministry, because it’s not efficient or effective to have two agencies with radically different approaches climbing over each other. ...
Te Rūnanga Nui o Ngā Kura Kaupapa Māori invites the current government to work in partnership with them to develop a pathway forward, including the development of a parallel pathway and meaningful policy and strategy for Kura Kaupapa Māori ...
If you haven’t started watching yet, Tara Ward begs you to reconsider. This is an excerpt from our weekly pop culture newsletter Rec Room. Sign up here. In the world of New Zealand reality television, we have many gems in our crown. There’s the delicious second season of the Celebrity Treasure ...
A new poem by Fiona Kidman. The clothes of the dead I did not keep my mother’s furry red beret for long nor the stringy scarves that adorned the necks of my aunts, although I have kept tag ends of gold, the rings and trinkets they wore, the brooches no ...
The government’s announcement that it will re-open the foreshore and seabed controversy by changing the rules on recognising centuries-old Māori customary title for a third time goes against the rule of law and New Zealand values,” Mr Tipa says. ...
The only published and available best-selling indie book chart in New Zealand is the top 10 sales list recorded every week at Unity Books’ stores in High St, Auckland, and Willis St, Wellington.AUCKLAND1 Lioness by Emily Perkins (Bloomsbury, $25) Roarrrr! Perkins’ brilliant, award-winning, Marian-Keyes anointed, darkly funny, long ...
The 2004 Act vested ownership of the foreshore and seabed in the Crown, extinguishing any Māori claims to ownership and causing widespread outrage and protests among Māori communities. ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Antje Deckert, Associate Professor (Criminology), Auckland University of Technology Getty Images Despite the connection between institutional harm and gang membership made clear in this week’s mammoth royal commission abuse-in care report, the government seems unlikely to soften its “get tough on ...
From Lewis Clareburt in the swimming to the start of the rowing – the first seven days of Paris 2024 promise to be big for New Zealand. There are few events that bring the country together quite like an Olympic Games. Nothing quite matches the excitement of getting up in ...
Groundbreaking local science just showed up in the most surprising of places: the season finale of The Kardashians. In the season five finale of The Kardashians last night, several members of the family gathered together in one of their signature empty, cream-coloured rooms to hear test results that had been ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Amin Saikal, Emeritus professor of Middle Eastern and Central Asian Studies, Australian National University The Middle East is on the brink of a possibly devastating regional war, with hostilities between Israel and Hezbollah reaching an extremely dangerous level. Washington has engaged in ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Laura Elizabeth Eades, Rheumatologist, Monash University Lupus is an inflammatory autoimmune illness, where the body’s immune system mistakenly attacks itself. Lupus can affect virtually any part of the body, although it most commonly affects the skin, joints and kidneys. The symptoms ...
A law firm that specialises in working with survivors of abuse in State care is disappointed that the Government fails to recognise that its boot camps can be directly compared to previous boot camps from the 1990s and 2000s. ...
Dying is a natural part of life, like updating your Wof or seeing your hairdresser, but without the word-of-mouth recs that help guarantee a good service. What if we changed that? Dying Reviews received by The Spinoff have had the names of organisations redacted while Hospice NZ collects further data. ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Jonti Horner, Professor (Astrophysics), University of Southern Queensland Mike Lewinski/Flickr, CC BY On any clear night, if you gaze skywards long enough, chances are you’ll see a meteor streaking through the sky. Some nights, however, are better than others. At ...
Despite having no bars or other designated spaces for lesbians, Auckland boasts a small but mighty lesbian museum. So how did it get here? The past 18 months has brought increasing hostility towards the queer community across Aotearoa. Kellie-Jay Keen-Minshull’s anti-trans rally in Tamaki Makaurau last March led to a ...
Poneke Antifascist Coalition has invited Wellingtonians to stand in solidarity with the Kanak people at 12pm today outside the French Embassy in Wellington. ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Peter Layton, Visiting Fellow, Strategic Studies, Griffith University Drones are the signature technology of the Ukraine war. A few miniature aircraft designs were used in the war’s early days, but an incredible array of drones have now evolved. There are different types, ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Mark Slee, Associate Professor, Clinical Academic Neurologist, Flinders University Francisco Gonzelez/Unsplash Migraine is many things, but one thing it’s not is “just a headache”. “Migraine” comes from the Greek word “hemicrania”, referring to the common experience of migraine being predominantly ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Lee White, Senior Lecturer and Horizon Fellow, School of Social and Political Sciences, University of Sydney Australia was slow to introduce minimum building standards for energy efficiency. The Nationwide House Energy Rating Scheme (NatHERS) only came into force in 2003. Older homes ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Steven Sherwood, Professor of Atmospheric Sciences, Climate Change Research Centre, UNSW Sydney The past century of human-induced warming has increased rainfall variability over 75% of the Earth’s land area – particularly over Australia, Europe and eastern North America, new research shows. ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Tony Heynen, Program Coordinator, Sustainable Energy, The University of Queensland A temporary stadium in the Champ-de-Mars, ParisEkaterina Pokrovsky/Shutterstock As Paris prepares to host the Olympic and Paralympic Games, the sustainability of the event is coming under scrutiny. The organisers have promoted ...
A night of karaoke and community in a pub that feels like a memory. You’d barely even notice it, unless you knew to look. Tucked away behind a liquor store on busy Constable Street is the capital’s last great pub. Newtown Sports Bar is an emblem of the pub culture ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Ian Wright, Professor in Marine Geology, University of Canterbury Louise Corcoran/Getty Images The decline in the number of doctoral candidates at New Zealand universities is a worrying sign for the country’s effort to build a knowledge-based economy. Aotearoa New Zealand’s ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Laurie Berg, Associate Professor, University of Technology Sydney defotoberg/Shutterstock Migrant worker exploitation is entrenched in workplaces across Australia. Tragically, a deep fear of immigration consequences means most unlawful employer conduct goes unreported. On Wednesday, however, the government officially launched a ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Vaughan Cruickshank, Senior Lecturer in Health and Physical Education, University of Tasmania Paris is about to host its third summer Olympics. While we don’t yet know what the legacy of this year’s games will be, let’s take the opportunity to reflect on ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Hugh Breakey, Deputy Director, Institute for Ethics, Governance & Law, Griffith University In the wake of the assassination attempt on former US President Donald Trump, there were calls from bothsides of US politics, as well as internationally, to reduce the brutal, ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Keith Rathbone, Senior Lecturer, Modern European History and Sports History, Macquarie University Two high-profile assaults on Australians in Paris have raised concerns about security ahead of the Olympic Games. On Saturday evening, a young woman was allegedly sexually assaulted by a ...
Dying is inevitable and, so it seems, is it costing a lot, writes Stewart Sowman-Lund in today’s extract from The Bulletin. To receive The Bulletin in full each weekday, sign up here.The cost of dying ...
The government took Joyce Harris's first baby and sent her off to a girls' home. Half a century on - and out of oceans of hurt - it asked her to be a mother figure. ...
It’s the deadliest fictional town in the country, but which death has been the most bonkers? Alex Casey looks back at 10 seasons of The Brokenwood Mysteries to find out. Warning: The following ranking story contains famous New Zealand actors appearing to be dead (not alive). The Spinoff has been ...
Water cremation is the biggest thing to happen to the death industry in the last 100 years. Alex Casey meets the people trying to bring it to Aotearoa. Through a set of mirrored doors down the industrial end of Christchurch’s St Asaph Street, death is getting a new lease on ...
Opinion: New Health NZ commissioner Lester Levy is authorised to assume operational leadership – chief executive Margie Apa is effectively relegated to his operational deputy The post All-powerful Levy is feudal baron of a $28b fiefdom appeared first on Newsroom. ...
The Irish have voted for gay marriage in a referendum, good news. But in a week which featured a lot of nonsense about gender assignment surgery again wedging a bunch of hapless white male MP Labour twits what are the lessons for the left in NZ from the Irish referendum?
Anyone who favours my posts by generously reading them will know I’ve lately been much taken by the ideas of Pablo Iglesias and Spain’s Podemos. One of the things that Podemos advocate is the left forming broad alliances for specific issues, looking not to the parliament for top down leadership, but rather by-passing the political & media elites to force change. This piece in the Irish Times –
http://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/fintan-o-toole-ireland-has-left-tolerance-far-behind-1.2223838 –
notes that “…It looks like a victory for articulacy. This was indeed a superb civic campaign…” A civic campaign that gave the political elites in Ireland absolutely no choice. Compare and contrast a confused, ideologically exhausted Labour party bickering over gender re-assignment surgery with the sort of populism of Podemos, and the sort of mechanisms (referendums, civic campaigns) in Ireland and the sort of “new left” we need for the 21st century here in NZ is becoming clearer.
Podemos are interesting in that they’ve used Loomio in such a massively constructive way. They’re a true grass roots political movement.
It’s what we need here in NZ. Where the representatives are representing the choices of the people and not their own desires and beliefs as we have now.
maybe the standardistas should set up a loomio and run through various scenarios/decisions based on current posts. See what happens when we have to actually work together 😈
heh thats a good idea…
“but rather by-passing the political & media elites to force change”
Completely with you on that one.
Can you recommend some reading on Podemos for someone who’s unfamiliar with it? Something easily accessible and not too dense to start with would be good.
http://left-flank.org/2015/01/02/understanding-podemos-33-commonsense-policies/
http://www.leninology.co.uk/2014/06/populists-against-elites.html
“…Third, in my opinion the nature of the breakthroughs being achieved is largely a populist one. That is to say, it is when new formations manage to puncture the bubble of bipartisan niceties, with slogans that are both resonant and pit ‘the people’ against a ‘power bloc’ that is insulated from popular opinion, that they succeed…”
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0eK7yvmdSRg
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/mar/31/podemos-revolution-radical-academics-changed-european-politics
then the heavy lifting…
http://www.amazon.com/Hegemony-Socialist-Strategy-Democratic-Politics/dp/1781681546/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1432428627&sr=8-1&keywords=Hegemony+and+Socialist+Strategy
And of course Gramsci.
Also read up on the “Pink Tide” in South America, where non-traditional alliances between the left and local capitalists have rolled back globalised capitalism. In New Zealand, such an alliance might be the left championing local import substitution whilst attacking foreign owned banks. That would offer opportunities to split right wing business orgainsations like Business New Zealand. for example.
cheers Sanctuary.
If you (or anyone) look into Ireland’s distant past, and where its culture has come from and the general default “mindset” of the Gaelic people, the way Gay marriage has been dealt with comes as no surprise.
Without wanting to present the idea that the Irish are all a bunch of happy dancing leprechauns, unlike NZ, Ireland’s cultural heritage is one of the most advanced and… hmmm… “liberal” or “progressive” in the Western world.
Where NZders traditionally seek advantage between peers, and maintain inequality between gender and sex, foreigners and locals, and enforcement of law comes from the State – as per their English/Monarchist roots – Ireland traditionally seeks equality and community, and enforcement of law is the decision of the family/clan – as per their Clan roots.
In very loose terms, of course, but that’s the point: despite having a modern tendency to shoot each other over which street one lives in, and despite early culture still being Patriarchial, they are more prone to integration of all-comers lifestyle requirements (women, gays, and foreigners) , rather than exclusion. The source of the cultural echo being Brehon Law.
Secret meeting in London to discuss making cash illegal, meaning total government control over taxation, spending….or more specifically what is able to be brought and sold.
http://armstrongeconomics.com/archives/30862
Cashless society is a natural evolution IMO all cash is is glorified shells and pebbles.
Probably inevitable b waghorn but this was suggested not as evolution but a sudden lurch. Imagine a cashless society where a Government agency could if they wanted, track a dissident and know exactly their activites. And no more coins for the buskers or charity collectors. Why even the very rich could be tracked and taxed so what a calamity that would be!
Yes this is all part of implementing authoritarian big brother control and surveillance over every aspect of our lives. True democratic dissent will be ending shortly thereafter.
A cashless society will be a great step on the way to the total removal of money. Interestingly enough, it’s happening anyway:
The question isn’t that we’re going cashless but if we’re going to continue to let the private banks control our money and our spending. I’m of the opinion that we need to stop that ASAP. When we go cashless it needs to be a government service, well backed up and with very strict rules about access.
Going cashless brings about a number of advantages:
1. It would be near impossible to lose money. Sure, you could drop your swipe card but that can easily be replaced and any money spent via it returned and the thief caught.
2. It would be impossible for someone to break in to the server and steal your money that way either. They can’t transfer it out to another country because any NZ$ outside of the server doesn’t exist and any internal transfer will be readily apparent even if the hackers managed to hide their own tracks.
3. Taxes. It would be incredibly easy for IRD to track where money is going and thus be able to determine who owes what taxes. In fact, they could do it in real time making a Financial Transaction Tax viable (At the moment implementation of an FTT would have many people moving to cash to prevent having to pay the tax).
4. Crime. Money laundering would be a thing of the past. It’s difficult to launder ill-gotten cash when it doesn’t exist. Other crime networks would also be easily detected. Essentially, crime that involves money would be gone along with the money laundering.
5. Inflation could be more accurately measured. Instead of having people go around shops recording the prices for a basket of goods all sales would be reported back with the system then automatically measuring inflation in near real time.
6. The recording of every sale would be great for informing people where they would get the best deal via a government funded website similar to PriceSpy.
As I say, it’s not a question of if we’re going cashless (We are already) but when, how and who controls it. IMO, we need to do so ASAP and we need to control it and not the private banks (although I’m sure that the private banks would love to rip us off some more for allowing us to use our own currency).
You’re kidding yourself, backing the movement towards a cashless society when that movement is completely engineered, supported, and structured from the ground up by the large capitalist institutions.
Yep, the only way NZ will get to be cashless is if it is forced to do so (and people will just invent new forms of non-traceable tokens for recording exchange anyway). That we have increasing tech for managing transactions is a different thing than removing cash as well.
I’m expecting increasing adverse events (weather, economy) that make a cashless society the far less resilient option.
Absolutely. Trying getting food from a supermarket when the EFTPOS network goes down. Usually a “cash only” check out opens up, but fuck all people have enough cash on hand to use it, so you get hundreds of hungry people milling around surrounded by groceries unable to transact any business.
As I said, we need to stop the large capitalist institutions from doing it and do it ourselves via our government. Private industry should not have control of our money and they will have if we don’t do something to stop them.
Yours are all fantasy conditions. I’m talking about what the actual conditions are, now, today. The fact is that moving to a cashless society, which is simply a part of moving to a fully online security and surveillance state, needs to be opposed on all fronts.
Moving to a cashless society needs to be done properly but it does need to be done.
That’s nothing more than a recital of faith from the Religion of Progress.
Nope. We need to keep track of our resources so that we can use them sustainably and for the benefit of NZ. Cash doesn’t allow us to do that in a meaningful way as it’s so easily untraceable.
Q. How do you come up with this sort of thinking Draco ?
Q. Do you actually believe in your own thoughts ?
That has got nothing to do with having a cashless society. Societies have managed to keep a close eye on their resource use for millenia without electronic money. Often on stone tablets and papyrus.
You are linking ideas as pre-requisites when they are not.
Not really. They’ve been able to keep track of transactions but not resource use in relation to what resources are actually available. This is a rather important development that we need to implement to help us becoming a sustainable society.
Whatever Draco. Ancient armies on the march could keep track of their provisions and their rate of use precisely but you imagine it your way.
/facepalm
How much oil is left in NZs wells?
How much food is produced daily on NZs farms?
How much water is there available to those farms to produce that food?
How much iron ore in our black sands?
How much titanium?
Now, how much is available sustainably (ie, in perpetuity) and how much is actually being used?
There’s a reason why I kept saying in relation to. One of the main reasons that Rome collapsed was over use of resources. They ran out of the resources needed to maintain the empire.
A cashless society would allow better booking keeping of the use of those resources. Of course, we still need to measure what resources we have available.
Yeah I’m over this Draco.
you see and all your points are why i like cash – the government issues legal tender, and it is untracable unless othewise marked.
as for the cashless world fantasy, and then you have a day or three without electricity and non of your eftpos machines works.
As for your bullet points: essentially all of you points listed we already have with our eftpos accounts.
* Any purchase you make is already tracked, just have a look at your bank statements. (anyone can have access to that, as identity thiefs and hackes have proven on more than one account)
* you are already getting ads in regards to your spending….Just look at the farmer emails that come courtesy of your farmer card, google, hack even the aa knows what you buy on your smart cad, every single one of your online purchases is recognised adn will reflect the next ads you see courtesy of google
* the government could/should prevent tax evasion, but considering that the polititians are at the front of tax evasion, maybe we should simply stop dreaming that they will do something to prevent it. 🙂
* loose your bank card and you risk loosing more then just a 20 $ bill.
* anyone who knows how to hack can steal more then just your money from your bank account….i think they made a few movies about that already.
* criminals don’t care what government do. They will find a replacement for cash, like cigarettes, coffee, chocolate, sexual favors, etc etc
* non criminals with no access to a bank card will also find a replacement of official cash such as cigarettes, coffee, chocolate, work for food/housing, sexual favours for food/housing or jobs, … etc etc (this was how life was handled in the direct year/s after the war ended in germany. my grandmother and my mother had a few stories of cleaning cigarette butts, rolling new zigs out of them and selling them for a few pennies or some potatoes)
No for the poor, cash is king, because it is untracable. Having a Food card that prohibits certain stores, or certain foods, or certain hygiene articles etc etc is not going to make your life easier.
those that are rich or very rich already have their cash less society, and their bank accounts in switzerland, singapore, hong kong and london and they still don’t pay any tax.
also note that the legalised gangsters and banksters in our society seem to transact their business electronically and cashlessly just fine. It’s their system after all.
Which is why I keep saying that we need to take it off them.
I don’t think a purely government operated banking system is a good idea. The current system has the advantage of creating a separation of roles between government regulators and the banks themselves.
The standard of regulation is not strong and should be increased but that is another issue.
Ireland seems to show what happens when politicians get too cozy with bankers. An entire political party lost its hegemony due to massive corruption which was fueling a property bubble there.
That one sentence shows that you failed to understand what I said. The most important being that we actually need to track resources used. That’s not an option, not if we want to become a sustainable society.
Shit happens and it really doesn’t happen that often. We mitigate against it but it’s still going to happen. As an example I’m pretty sure that a hell of a lot of Wellington couldn’t go shopping during the recent storm nor for some time after.
I’m pointing out that the private sector shouldn’t actually have that information because of the many point you make about advertising and tracking.
As I pointed out, there’s actually less risk because of the nature of electronic transactions. A simple call to the help desk to report it lost and it gets frozen.
There’s a risk of that but a) not as high as people believe and b) we need to risk a bit to become a better society.
And that would be why we still have police.
Doing that would have to be illegal and any government that tries should immediately go to jail for a minimum of 5 years. I did say strict rules about it.
That requires other tax and law changes but one point I should point out is that, with a cashless society, NZ$ would only exist in NZ on the government servers.
Not if you want a convertible currency
I never said that offshore people couldn’t have NZ$, only that they would exist only in the government servers.
jeeezus Draco that still means that the NZD would not be a convertible currency. It would be like the renmenbi from four or five years ago.
It will make it easy for banks to introduce negative interest rates.
Which they effectively do anyway, charging “fees” on small deposits.
That’s not the same thing as negative interest.
oh you mean like the difference between the “finance rate” and the “interest rate” in a consumer debt agreement?
The bank takes money from you for holding your deposit. Thats effectively a negative interest rate, albeit you are correct technically that it is not the same thing.
[The bank takes money from you for holding your deposit. Thats effectively a negative interest rate, albeit you are correct technically that it is not the same thing.]
Interest charged, whether positive or negative, is proportional to the amount deposited and varies with the duration. A bank charge is a fixed charge intended to cover the bank’s processing costs.
We could of course avoid both negative interest and and bank charges by only using cash. Which would be one reason the banking fraternity would be very much in favour of bringing about a cashless society.
to cover the bank’s processing costs? I know what you are saying but that is not true. Its straight out gouging of our economy to the tune of billions a year.
You can regard those charges and interest as separate or categorise them differently as much as you like but the bottom line is that they are taking money off you for holding your deposit and you can calculate that as an effective negative interest rate based on the principal that you have with them.
[You can regard those charges and interest as separate or categorise them differently as much as you like but the bottom line is that they are taking money off you for holding your deposit and you can calculate that as an effective negative interest rate based on the principal that you have with them.]
If we were to abolish (positive) interest I don’t see how the the banks could remain in business were it not for bank charges. Even state owned banks wouldn’t want to have to rely on subsidies from the taxpayer to meet their running costs.
not sure what world you are living in man, if you’ve been following the news, the banks with direct access to the Fed funds window get their money for free, then lend it to us charging us shitloads.
Lack of bank profitability is not an issue we are facing right now but i am sure that the banksters find your concern touching.
[not sure what world you are living in man, if you’ve been following the news, the banks with direct access to the Fed funds window get their money for free, then lend it to us charging us shitloads.]
Whatever. Bank charges and interest (positive or negative) are still two different things. So if the banks charged negative interest on deposits it would place an additional burden on depositors – additional, that is, to bank charges, which are generally accepted by customers as a reasonable charge for the services provided in operating cheque accounts, clearing of cheques, provision of plastic cards, etc. If the banks started charging negative interest I would want to be able to take my money out of the bank and operate mostly in cash. This however would not be possible in a cashless society.
1. the private sector allready has all the information, especially the banks.
2. loose your card in the morning, or have your bag stolen, and not know it for a few hours….your idendity is stolen, and your money is gone, and someone signed you up for a loan. Happens all the time, and been happening for years. Even when peeps call in to cancel a card, with wave and pay the chances are you are gonna loose more than a bit.
3. Identity theft, and subsequent financial abuse is a big issue. It does not just happens every now and then. This is what the FBI says about financial crime together with Identity theft.
4. In cash less world the cops will be payed off with Cigarettes, booze, sex, chocolate etc etc etc. They will be as corrupt as they are today.
5. Food cards have been already introduced by WINZ http://www.workandincome.govt.nz/individuals/payment-card/ and now, the approved businesses that one can use are not forcibly the cheapest businesses to use for someone on welfare. (but heck we must take away choice in the name of welfare fraud, lest they buy something that offends our, mine, yours and humpty dumpty sensibilitys. Cause we all know lazy, bludgers and the likes. – Still waiting for the government to resign.
6. And the government servers are immune to hacking, will never crash, always work and …..Novo pay?
1. Yes and they shouldn’t
2. and 3
3. Last time I lost a CC I called them up and they asked me what was my last transaction stopping it from that point. There hadn’t been any other transactions but I’m sure that they would have taken the correct action in correcting them if there had been including the return of any monies spent. Can’t do that with cash
4. Which means we need procedures that find and correct that corruption
5. yep and they need to be removed
6. Nope but then, neither is cash – stolen wallets have been around forever. And Novopoay wasn’t a government problem per se but a private sector problem brought about by the dismantling of government over the last 30 years
And the trouble with Winz payment cards is that people can’t use cash at the local market where the vegs are so much cheaper.
This is all designed to fuck with peoples lives and to remove control from people over even the smallest details of their day.
An authoritarian big brother security and surveillance centralised state is the absolute inversion of a democratic, liberal society.
Odd that there are a number who post here that seemingly can’t or won’t connect the dots between the total financial disaster foisted upon the planet and its inhabitants and the to move towards a ‘cashless’ society
Note: Cashless can’t and won’t work unless all nations implement it at the same time and if that ‘big bang’ was to come into effect the consequences would be nothing short of catastrophic
It is impossible to rid the world of cash money and impossible to police the creation of ‘unofficial’ forms of cash money which is why the exercise is propaganda which has been openly talked about by the establishments for an age now
In my opinion the forces behind this blindly believe such a system of control will lead to the utopian digitized slave state but are forcing the swing back towards localized production and community based society as human beings realize what is necessary for the their own survival
Yep. It’s hardly a conspiracy theory when they are basically laying it out in the open.
http://www.cnbc.com/id/101266173
Cashless society: A huge threat to our freedom
1. It would be near impossible to lose money. Sure, you could drop your swipe card but that can easily be replaced and any money spent via it returned and the thief caught.
What you meant to say is it will be impossible to stop the bank or other institutions taking your ‘money’
2. It would be impossible for someone to break in to the server and steal your money that way either. They can’t transfer it out to another country because any NZ$ outside of the server doesn’t exist and any internal transfer will be readily apparent even if the hackers managed to hide their own tracks.
Your faith in technology is bizarre and your understandings primitive while simultaneously endorsing Capital controls which will be immediately implemented and you can wave good-bye to freedom of movement….for everyone else
3. Taxes. It would be incredibly easy for IRD to track where money is going and thus be able to determine who owes what taxes. In fact, they could do it in real time making a Financial Transaction Tax viable (At the moment implementation of an FTT would have many people moving to cash to prevent having to pay the tax).
Corporations already do business electronically so you have not thought this through at all
4. Crime. Money laundering would be a thing of the past. It’s difficult to launder ill-gotten cash when it doesn’t exist. Other crime networks would also be easily detected. Essentially, crime that involves money would be gone along with the money laundering.
Q. You understand the crime networks own and control the financial systems eh ?
The banks will continue laundering they will not even break stride while stopping your access anytime they like
5. Inflation could be more accurately measured. Instead of having people go around shops recording the prices for a basket of goods all sales would be reported back with the system then automatically measuring inflation in near real time.
You don’t understand what you’re talking about or what inflation is or the causes
6. The recording of every sale would be great for informing people where they would get the best deal via a government funded website similar to PriceSpy.
Yes we are aware of your big brother authoritarian preferences which you openly parade once again
It’s bizarre actually as current day point of sale systems already allow real time monitoring of economic activity and prices throughout the retail and service sectors.
The problem being that it’s the corporates with the information and not the people. And that information is then used against the people rather than supporting them.
The information is already there, its already being collected in real time, the infrastructure already exists to do all of that, further the government already has the capability to take all that information, sort it search it and store it into perpetuity
Seems to me the answer is already right there in front of our faces if you want to go down that road (to a turnkey authoritarian central state).
No, if I’d meant that then I would have said that.
That’s below your usual standard of meaningless drivel but still meaningless.
Actually, I have. The problem is that you didn’t get the full article which states that the servers would be government owned and no NZ$ would exist outside of those servers. This means that it would be very easy to trace where money has gone and thus what taxes the corporations owe on it.
Which, again, is why I keep saying that our monetary system needs to be removed from the control of the corporates.
Yes I do.
Allowing people to see where they can get the best deal is Big Brother? Man, are you fucken delusional.
Allowing people to see where they can get the best deal is Big Brother? Man, are you fucken delusional
No it’s the faith in such systems who would own the systems and how the information will be used is delusional
Before we even begin to discuss the delusion that the ‘government’ will be in control of any such systems
Q. How do you propose the government will ‘assume control’ over the private banking system which currently operates throughout most of the worlds nations ?
Q. Do you believe governments event want to take control ?
corporations, the government and the 0.01% are all merging into the same authoritarian establishment…
I don’t expect them to. I expect them to assume control of the NZ system and integrate it into the global systems. I expect other governments to follow suit.
This is an important point about democracy – it’s not parliament that are the government but the people.
I don’t expect them to. I expect them to assume control of the NZ system and integrate it into the global systems. I expect other governments to follow suit.
Q. How would you remove the barrier of ‘state capture’ ?
Do you believe governments event want to take control ?
This is an important point about democracy – it’s not parliament that are the government but the people.
Yeah great but that’s currently not the situation going around the Western World
Yes, we need to do something about that.
Dude the way you insist that centralised infrastructure locking people in to establishment systems is the only way ahead, is pretty bloody scary.
Its like you have never paid attention to how payment systems are used by the elite as weapons of war against Russia, Wikileaks, Kim Dotcom etc. Anybody and any organisation the establishment of the day thinks is a dissenter and a threat to them. And now you want to tie everyone in NZ to similar?
Sorry mate, get fucking lost.
Forced vaccinations and cashless society…
Q. Why the heck would anyone wish to be living under such conditions ?
The modern Left appears riven with incoherancy and incongruent principles. Patients rights but force vaccinations. Abortions more available but treasure babies. Cut down emissions but increase consumption of the masses.
question.
why are you here if you despise the modern left so much.
would you not be happier hanging with the modern right?
a fair question. The pot needs to be stirred if there is any hope of this stew getting better. The pro-establishment greasers and the political careerists won’t.
btw the “modern right” are just as locked into ultimately self defeating behaviours. They just spend more of the time in power during.
The energy and resource crunch is coming, fast.
CV (or CR depending on the time of day) is simply engaging his critical faculties. Something I wish a few more of my fellow Lefties would do.
Chur. The older I get the less of an establishment loyalist I feel like being. Especially when “the establishment” is that which has lead us to this shite place in history.
“Abortions more available but treasure babies”
These aren’t contradictory. Indeed a society that protects the rights and wellbeing of women is going to be a better society for babies.
They aren’t morally and spiritually contradictory? OK if you say so.
No, they aren’t. You’ve fallen into the old foetus = baby trap.
thats a scientific judgement, not a moral or spiritual one.
I’m quite aware of that which is why I keep saying, and you keep ignoring, that these systems need to be removed from the elites control.
They’re already in that position – I want to remove them from it.
The point that you seem to fail to understand is that we do need a system. It’s not optional.
Dunno who the uncorruptible angels you are going to get to run your all seeing all reaching system. Maybe you want it run by AI?
I don’t expect incorruptible angels – I expect everyone to have a say/voice/power rather than just a few. Overall, everyone isn’t corruptible but a few are.
I don’t expect incorruptible angels – I expect everyone to have a say/voice/power rather than just a few. Overall, everyone isn’t corruptible but a few are
Q. Will you be proposing a solution about how you foresee this coming about ?
I have done, several times, now learn to use the search feature.
I suspect that we all may start using cigarettes as cash as in the POW camps. A cashless society would give the banks too much control.
‘Robert Fisk: Who is bombing whom in the Middle East?’
http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/robert-fisk-who-is-bombing-whom-in-the-middle-east-10222938.html
“It amazes me that all these warriors of the air don’t regularly crash into each other…”
Into this mess walks New Zealand troops ….at the command of jonkey Nactional and chicken hawks
…the New Zealand Labour Party along with the Green Party and NZF and Mana/Int co-Left ( who opposed sending them there in the first place)…..should demand NZ troops are pulled out now!
Chooky. The article on the sidebar “After Vietnam: changes in imperialist strategy” gives a different take on the Middle East activity. Essentially that the West now has learned to get the unfortunates to carry out the bloodshed by proxy. Suits us to see the barbaric bad guys as an excuse to carry out remote “defence” activity. No more disasters labelling USA as bad guys as in Vietnam eg MiLai Massacre.
https://rdln.wordpress.com/2015/05/23/after-vietnam-changes-in-imperialist-strategy/
Uh, this has been a hallmark of western empire for 400 years
Debunking the child poverty myths by Rob Stock is an excellent read, in fact a must read.
Camp Taji, were NZ’s troops are stationed is surrounded by ISIS on three sides with one side open towards Baghdad. Baghdad is facing an ISIS assault. That is according to the New York Times propaganda rag du jour in the US (Responsible for the yellow cake story that got the US invading Iraq in 2003 in the first place) that is.
The distance between ISIS troops and Camp Taji is only ± 15 km.
Why don’t we hear about this in the MSM?
Why Islamic State Is Winning :
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article41954.htm
From the link:
Vice President Joe Biden declared in early April that “ISIL’s momentum in Iraq has halted, and in many places, has been flat-out reversed.”
A couple of weeks later, the President proved equally upbeat following a meeting with Iraqi leader Haider al-Abadi: “We are making serious progress in pushing back ISIL out of Iraqi territory. About a quarter of the territory fallen under Daesh control has been recovered. Thousands of strikes have not only taken ISIL fighters off the war theater, but their infrastructure has been deteriorated and decayed. And under Prime Minister Abadi’s leadership, the Iraqi security forces have been rebuilt and are getting re-equipped, retrained, and strategically deployed across the country.”
But that was so last month. Post-Ramadi, conservatives like Washington Post columnist Charles Krauthammer, former U.S. Ambassador to the United Nations John Bolton, and Sen. Lindsey Graham, R-South Carolina, have lost no time in labeling such views out of touch and “delusional.” And, indeed, Obama sounded strangely detached on Tuesday when he told The Atlantic that ISIS’s advance was not a defeat.
“No, I don’t think we’re losing,” he said, adding: “There’s no doubt there was a tactical setback, although Ramadi had been vulnerable for a very long time, primarily because these are not Iraqi security forces that we have trained or reinforced.” It was rather like the captain of the Titanic telling passengers that the gash below the waterline was a minor opening that would soon be repaired.
Juan Cole says it best: Washington didn’t lose Ramadi because Washington never had Ramadi
http://www.juancole.com/2015/05/washington-ramadi-never.html
Because the mainstream media only report what the Defence Force wants them to. Journalists get to be embedded within military forces on the ground, only if they tow the line and report what the hierarchy wants.
John Pilger talks a little about general western media bias here, from 12:40 in: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=41YTAZHIWN8
The first really big polar blast of the season arriving today, straight off the edge of Antarctica. Bundle up folks, esp in the South which is expecting heavy dumps of snow.
http://earth.nullschool.net/#current/wind/surface/level/orthographic=173.90,-52.04,512
http://www.metservice.com/warnings/severe-weather-outlook
The polar night jet flowing between the pressure gradients is flowing from antarctica onto NZ.
http://pamola.um.maine.edu/fcst_frames/GFS-025deg/DailySummary/GFS-025deg_NH-SAT5_WS250.png
http://pamola.um.maine.edu/fcst_frames/GFS-025deg/DailySummary/GFS-025deg_NH-SAT5_PMSL.png
Thanks!
US government documents show rise of ISIS was predicted, supported and considered an “asset” in getting rid of Assad
Supporting militant Sunni extremism in Syria and Iraq would also act to curb Iranian influence, it was noted. Fueling militant Islamic extremism in Syria/Iraq has also given the same security and surveillance state the excuse to demand more power and more budgets to use on its own western citizens.
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-05-23/secret-pentagon-report-reveals-us-created-isis-tool-overthrow-syrias-president-assad
Imperialism by proxy?
Pepe Escobar refers to this as the empire of chaos.
the US has history of shipping in Islamic militants, training and arming them, in order to undermine entire states. And interesting isnt it how despite all these anti ISIS US airstrikes, ISIS is able to close in on Damascus and Assad quite rapidly.
Something Draco has often bought up here is the need for us to get out of the mindset of needless duplication, i.e. everyone having everything in every home.
This looks like an example of a step in an interesting direction: Four tiny homes on a shared piece of land. Each tiny home has its own bathroom, but the kitchen and living area is in a shared building.
http://www.stuff.co.nz/life-style/home-property/68805274/Best-mates-build-tiny-row-of-houses-in-new-take-on-small-living-trend
Yep. And these solutions are not new. Communitarian or social accommodation. Barracks, student hostels and monastaries all have set ups with similar principles. Simply update with modern ideas and for the modern sensibility – and voila – save a tonne of money on corporatised retirement accomodation.
Nice overview article. Biggest thing stopping this from happening in NZ is the lack of legal models for shared ownership.
Chch was an ideal opportunity to work with these alternative housing options. I think a few people have done tiny homes there but not the shared resources bit.
???
What do you mean??? Shared ownership of financial assets is an utterly standard situation. Whether it is company shareholders, spouses or people who have an account at a bank or managed by a hedgefund.
Outside of marriage it’s rare for people in NZ to share ownership of homes/land. It does happen but we don’t have good cultural practice yet on how to do it, and people get stuck on assets issues, what happens when someone wants out, how to make decisions collectively etc.
There are many people wanting to do this but few really good examples that can be easily replicated. I know about it from people trying to go this with larger pieces of land, and it’s possible it might be easier on smaller suburban blocks. But again, Chch was the obvious opportunity and it hasn’t really happened. I think that’s because the right models don’t exist yet.
Legal models for shared ownership of assets including property are a bog standard part of property and commercial law.
Day to day living arrangements and how they would suit individuals living together are another matter.
Off the shelf.
http://www.homelegal.co.nz/tenancy-in-common/
Thanks. Let me clarify, by ‘model’ I mean the whole thing not just the legal structure. See my comment to CV above. Probably should have left the word legal out of my first comment.
Everything from traditional Kiwi flatmates (shared cooking and shared bills) to communal student hostel living and everything in-between. There are many models and ideas familar to NZ culture to pick from. And if they don’t work, try out a Pasifika or Maori model extended family mode of living.
I’m talking about ownership. Try reading my comments properly.
weka, I already answered above that there are many options for shared or joint legal ownership of assets including property.
Now it is hardly my fault if you cannot accurately formulate what you are asking for. Ownership of assets falls under the area of commercial and property law. It’s very clear.
🙄
I’m not asking for anything. I’m sharing some experience. I’m talking about what ordinary people are trying to do in sharing ownership of homes and why that is difficult in NZ. I’m guessing you are commenting again from a place of poor knowledge. If you can’t tell the difference between ownership and flatting, you could try listening instead of pontificating.
So educate me. For starters maybe you can tell me what the non-legal aspects of property ownership structures you were referring to.
If a group of people buy land together with the intention of forming community, some of the issues that arise are around how to make decisions, and how to remove assets if someone wants to leave. Yes, the technicals on that exist, but how it plays out in real life isn’t always so straight forward (eg what happens if you want to sell but the other owners get to have a say in who buys in and you can’t find someone suitable?). There’s also a whole class thing that happens as well, around people with assets and how they protect them vs how they share them.
And how to just get on with each other in a living situation that many aren’t used to (I agree with you that Māori and Pasifika are better at this than Pākehā). The ‘model’ I am referring to is how to navigate this without having to reinvent the wheel all the time. Lots of people in NZ have done various models, and many have failed (esp intentional communities). There are some good successes too, but my original comment was pointing to these things not being cultural norms yet, so both regulations and patterns of relating haven’t evolved to support them.
In the linked article, the couples have known each other for 20 years. That makes a big difference.
Co-housing seems one of the more successful models in NZ, but most cohousing is for people with large buy in (eg they sell an existing house/have a big mortgage). I was interested in the article that was looking at medium level buy in (although I don’t think they talk about the land price), plus what felix was pointing to about shared ammenities.
I know of a few groups of people who’ve done rural subdivisions privately where the land is owned collectively but each family builds their own home. You need a certain group of people who know and trust each other for that to work. It does work, but it’s not common and I think the reason for that is that both around regulations on rural land, and that we’re not that good at sharing when it comes to larges amounts of assets, or how to make decisions in small groups once we get past whānau size. These are not unresolvable problems, we’re just not there yet.
Beyond that, and esp in response to what Maui said, I’m thinking of even lower buy ins. The moveable tiny home allows people more flexibility re commitment, and is way cheaper if land is rented instead of bought. There are still issues on how to live together.
Community Land Trusts are one of the models now being used in NZ. I’m not sure how successful that is yet and the one I am familiar with still has a substantial buy in.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Community_land_trust
There are a lot of nuances that you raise, and important ones weka.
In olden days, blood ties, tribal ties, religious ties, formed the basis of the trust, mutual understanding and common culture required for these things to work and work well.
I agree with you that its more difficult now and that it depends on each specific situation and each specific group of people and their dynamics.
If people want to be really arms length and independent away from each other then residential units or town house units might be used. But that’s not really communitarian living either.
what I find is that if you ask people you know who are talking about housing or home ownership whether they would share land with others, most people will just say no flat out, others will say yeah maybe, but it’s generally unclear what it means and how to do it and when they realise it’s a lot of work that becomes a barrier. A few will respond positively. What we need are models that make it much easier for the middle group to be more interested, as simple as say buying a house, or renting long term.
“In olden days, blood ties, tribal ties, religious ties, formed the basis of the trust, mutual understanding and common culture required for these things to work and work well.”
Yep that’s the one.
“If people want to be really arms length and independent away from each other then residential units or town house units might be used. But that’s not really communitarian living either.”
True, but it’s probably a step in the right direction. The set up in that article looks much more workable for most people I know than say an intentional community where families are more in each others space. It’s a mix of own space and shared space, and it sounds like they figured out how to make it work for them specifically. That’s closer to what most of us have been raised with so it makes sense.
Appreciate you taking the time to share the thoughts you have on this topic. I think this kind of project is going to be an important way forward for many.
Ownership models and protocols were covered in this episode of Kevin McCloud’s Grand Designs about a self build community.
(If you can beat the geo-blocking)
http://www.channel4.com/programmes/grand-designs/on-demand/26262-003
google turns up a few examples too
http://www.cohousing.org.uk/category/4/27/case-studies
http://www.selfbuild-central.co.uk/first-ideas/examples/hedgehog-co-op/
http://www.selfbuildportal.org.uk/case-studies
Thanks joe. McCloud is always good. Not sure if I’ve seen that one, will have a look.
This answers a few questions about structure and ownership.
http://www.lilac.coop/about-lilac/faqs.html#ecovillage
Yep sign me up! I’ve thought about looking for a small piece of land to put a tiny house on. Unfortunately land parcels don’t come in sizes of 50sqm.. Minimum Lot sizes where I live would be around 300sqm according to Council zoning, so no chance of subdividing existing land. The most feasible way would be finding a friendly farmer who doesn’t mind you renting a portion of paddock.
Would you consider shared ownership?
The great thing about moveable tiny homes is they circumvent so many regulations. Renting land is going to be a good option for many going forward. It also means no mortgage and thus not supporting the pro-CC global economy.
Yeah, I would. The trouble is I don’t really know anyone else who wants to do this – maybe it’s time to join the Transition Towns group. And then finding a vacant piece of land close to the city is important for me too.
Sounds like a good plan.
There will be a lawyer or planner here who can give you suggestions. From an amateur standpoint it sounds to me like you need a bit of land which can be zoned for high density housing. Buy the land as a group. Buildings can then come and go on to the land leasehold. Just an example. Need to talk to the local council and its planners early on as if the concept does not fit into the district plan in some way, it won’t be able to proceed.
Alternatively, find a group of people and buy a 5 bedroom house together. Knock off the mortgage collectively in a few years. It’s then collective and supportive living in your own home – for the younger set it’d be called flatting.
Another solution is the movable cabin (less than 10 sq m so no need for building consent). A shared utility provides the kitchen, bathroom (building consent required here – but once that hurdle over your on your way). Decks between cabins and utility allow flow. A separate cabin as communal living space.
I’ve seen a number of these springing up at my local beach. 4 or 5 small cabins linked by decks sharing a communal utility and living space.
No need for a 10m2 cabin to be movable. Schedule 1 of the building act applies. The important part is that to be legal as sleeping acom, it must be used in connection with a dwelling on the same property, which is where the fully consented kitchen/bathroom/living room comes in.
As long as you have this legal “dwelling” on the property, and your 10m2 buildings contain no cooking or sanitary facilities, you can have as many of them as you like. There may be restrictions on how many people can live on your property at any one time, but that’s a question for your local council.
You also have to make sure they’re no closer to each other or to any building or boundary than their own height.
Ahhhh ha good tip felix
Schedule 1 is here: http://www.legislation.govt.nz/act/public/2004/0072/latest/DLM5770963.html
It lists all the building work that you can do without a permit. Clause 3 is the relevant one in this matter.
The work still needs to comply with the building code standards (NZS:3604) so you can’t build them out out cellophane and coat hangers.
And as noted above, you still need to comply with the district plan for your area as well.
BUT as long as you haven’t made enemies with your council officers or your neighbours you’re probably not going to be inspected, and you can avoid all the extra cost and hassle of the consent process.
Yes…can’t really start a community living project in a sincere fashion by pissing everyone off…
Referencing my own comment above
Jointly buy a decent sized section with a small house on it. Due diligence on the LIM to ensure that all consents are present and correct. Then build a number of those 10m2 sleeping huts around the site, within what is considered a permitted activity.
Excellent idea.
Ideally there would be money (and consents) to refit the main house as a common space; additional bathroom, open plan living area/dining, high capacity kitchen etc.
Whole thing could be owned as a company with the residents as shareholders; people could then buy in/sell their shares and come and go as their life circumstances required.
Heh now we’re talking, just don’t call it a commune 😉
LOL. Well, social isolation is a killer; if there was a common area with a bar, a pool table, some arcades and board games, hobby space, piano etc. that would be a lot of fun. A different kind of living than sitting in front of a screen surfing the interwebs 😯 lolz
Felix, what’s the limit on how many dwellings with kitchen/bathrooms you can have on a residential site?
The advantages of having it be moveable are that you don’t need building consent above the 10m2 (which makes it much cheaper), and you don’t have to own land. It’s a very affordable way to get housing for people that either build, or pay someone to build.
Or in Macro’s scenario, you don’t need the cost of a consented shared amenities block.
(I have a feeling some councils have reduced the minimum dwelling size to prevent people from doing this).
“what’s the limit on how many dwellings with kitchen/bathrooms you can have on a residential site?”
That’s down to the zone rules of your local District Plan. Where I am it’s one, or one + an ancillary dwelling (sometimes called dependent person’s dwelling or granny flat, which contains all facilities but is limited to a certain maximum size). I don’t know how much this varies from place to place.
Macro’s scenario still includes a shared utilities building of some sort. This has to be consented.
Ok thanks.
“Macro’s scenario still includes a shared utilities building of some sort. This has to be consented.”
But not if it’s moveable I think. Sewerage and greywater would have to be though.
Ah yes that’s right. Sewerage and greywater, and stormwater, and probably a potable water supply.
And if your section is big enough and in the applicable zone you’re allowed to dispose of all of that on site (with an engineer’s design specific to your site for the council to approve), so that could work with a mobile building of some sort.
Yes I have a mobile building at my beach section – its actually bigger than 10 sq m and comes in 2 parts that are wheeled onto the site and then placed together. The advantage is that it can be quickly built off site and located and ready to use within the day, and moved t a new site if necessary. I bought mine new about 7 years ago and it has been moved from just north of Auckland to the Coromandel Peninsula in that time.
We have this technology in NZ and i never ceases to depress and astound me that such buildings were never employed to house those who lost there homes in Christchurch. It takes 6 weeks to construct these small dwellings and they are of a very high standard complete with bathroom 2 bedrooms and well equipped kitchen. carpeted, outside deck areas, the lot. I understand Alan Gibbs has one on his property north of Helensville as well – so it gives you some idea of the standard of finish.
+ zillion re Chch. They could have set up apprentice and owner/builder schemes too, so they would have upskilled a whole bunch of locals. Instead the dumb fucks in charge spend all that money at the start on motorhomes that no-one wanted to live in.
What’s involved in the move Macro? Is the building towable? By what?
the web site is here:
http://www.go-homes.co.nz/
They are transported to the site then moved into position using a standard 4×4 ute. Hooked up to facilities – caravan plug (builders pole), water, waste can be normal sewage collection – but we used a separate septic system on the farm (separate grey water and black water)
http://www.naturalflow.co.nz/
@GenerationZer0: The final #climatemeeting is in Wellington tomorrow 7pm at Rydges Hotel, 75 Featherston St. #fixourfuture
Good interview for anyone wanting to understand the Greens co-leadership contenders (being chosen next weekend), or just the GP in general.
http://ruminator.co.nz/its-not-easy-being-green-while-running-for-male-co-leader/
http://i.stuff.co.nz/business/money/68788282/NZ-hands-tied-on-foreign-home-buyers-under-Korea-FTA-bungle
Keys ineptness shining through again.
Have you seen the recent posts here on TS re. XX not even trying anymore with the nice middle digit gesture? Key has never tried because he never has, he doesn’t, and never will give a shit; it has nothing to do with ineptness although there’s a lot of that too.
Nothing to Lose But Our Fears
Hammer -> nail.
Ok, so basically he’s saying Labour needs a new Vision because they can’t move left or right.
“As to precisely what alternatives should be adopted, why not at least begin to think about them? They are not in short supply.”
For the uninitiated, what policy ideas do you think Gould is thinking of for Labour?
I think he’s saying that Labour need to stand on principles again and to believe in those principles. The RWNJs are wrong but they believe in what they’re saying and people can tell. Labour, on the other hand, don’t really believe in what they’re saying largely because they’re saying the same things as the RWNJs and people can tell that too.
It’s pretty much a giveaway when both major parties are selling the same vision.
The remits up for discussion today at the Labour Region 5 conference were clearly concerned about that. Linking minimum wage to the average wage so they move upward of their own accord rather than at a politician’s whim, taxing wealth as well as income, UBI (some of the remits had clearly come from someone who had read the Big Kahuna), abolishing youth, training and starting out minimum wage rates, repealing a number of ERA amendments, promoting collective bargaining and awards etc.
The Future of Work was also a big part of the day’s activities, as Grant Robertson gave a speech and then we did some workshopping on it. This commission’s work will inform Labour policy in this area, and is huge. UBI was also brought up here, and I suspect will become Labour policy at some point in the nearish future.
Housing was brought up, and it is acknowledged as a big part of any future Labour government.
Any talk of working with the GP?
That’s good news about the UBI.
heh
Manchester MP Gerald Kaufman described the new SNP intake as ‘goons’ and their behaviour as ‘infantile’
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3093537/Invasion-McManiacs-Boorish-Boozy-Picking-fights-Nicola-Sturgeon-s-alarmed-Commons-antics-SNP-s-yob-MPs.html