Open mike 25/05/2019
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- Treasury warns deeper recession worsening Budget deficit
The gift that keeps giving: David Seymour has now opened a split in the coalition over the future of National’s promise to build a new medical school. Photo: Lynn Grieveson / TheKakaKia ora. Long stories short, here’s my top things to note in Aotearoa’s political economy around housing, climate and ...1 hour ago - Weekly Roundup 22-November-2024
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Record Numbers: The Hīkoi mō te Tiriti, which began at the tip of the North, and the tail of the South, on 11 November, culminated outside Parliament on Tuesday, 19 November 2024, in one of the largest demonstrations in New Zealand’s political history.ACCORDING TO TE ARA, the Ministry of Culture ...3 hours ago - The Rush To Blame “The Activists”
Activists are such easy scapegoats. The right and center have been conditioned for decades to roll their eyes at all protests. The left are easily aggravated over students leading movements they see as belonging to grownups, who have more important concerns like the economy and whether the trains come on ...3 hours ago - Cutting Through An Inundation of Dipshit Racists
Hi,Watching New Zealand from afar offers a strange perspective. It can be a good thing — distance from Aotearoa helped keep me sane while I reported on abuse at New Zealand’s biggest megachurch over the course of a year. It helps fuel my silly podcast. But it can also be ...3 hours ago - This is bad news
The speech yesterday by Treasury’s Chief Economic Advisor warning that the books are in worse shape than forecasted looks like it’s part of a softening-up process for either more cuts or a longer wait to get back into surplus. The speech was a highly unusual public preview of Treasury’s Half-Yearly ...5 hours ago - Skeptical Science New Research for Week #47 2024
Open access notables Projected increase in the frequency of extremely active Atlantic hurricane seasons, Lopez et al., Science Advances: Future changes to the year-to-year swings between active and inactive North Atlantic tropical cyclone (TC) seasons have received little attention, yet may have great societal implications in areas prone to hurricane ...14 hours ago - Chicken Kiev
Chatting in the supermarket this morning, I found I needed to lunge for the chicken drumsticks.Coping mechanisms: who hasn’t felt a greater need for them lately?When it all gets too much, I turn to demonstrating handy butchery hacks.It wasn’t that she’d said anything wrong, our friend, not at all. We ...17 hours ago - The year is 2024 and it’s 1984
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Back in 2022, RNZ took an in-depth look at the "Independent" Police Conduct Authority and its handling of killings by police. These are the most serious test of oversight, and you would expect the police's use of lethal force to receive the most severe scrutiny. But despite the police regularly ...22 hours ago - Thursday 21 November 2024
The Hīkoi mō Te Tiriti arrived at Parliament on Tuesday – the size is being debated but estimates range from 42,000 to 100,000. The Prime Minister is defending not attending due to some of the organisers being affiliated with Te Pāti Māori. The national gang patch ban came into force ...22 hours ago - ‘These budget cuts are counter-productive and make no sense’
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Nicola Willis’ budget cuts are under fire from economists for having no clear rationale and worsening the recession. Photo: Lynn Grieveson / The KākāKia ora. Long stories short, here’s my top things to note in Aotearoa’s political economy around housing, climate and poverty on Thursday, November 21: The news at ...1 day ago
- The end of policing by consent
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Neither Wellington nor Parliament has ever seen anything like it before. The Police said there were more than 40,000 but however many there were, yesterday’s Hikoi to Parliament was a monumental event. It was almost three times the Foreshore and Seabed martch of 2004 and many,many times bigger than ...2 days ago
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The government's Treaty Principles Bill is up for its first reading today - bought forward in a rush in a desperate effort to avoid the hikoi which is currently marching on Wellington. But the Prime Minister won’t be there for it – he’s literally running away to Peru! But he ...1 week ago
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- Release: Labour, Greens and Te Pāti Māori call on the Prime Minister to block the Treaty Principle...
The opposition parties stand united for an Aotearoa that honours Te Tiriti, rather than seeking to rewrite it. Labour, the Greens and Te Pāti Māori are working together against the Government’s divisive Treaty Principles Bill. ...2 weeks ago
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"I May be some time…"
Que?
Just teasing
I thought you must have been in the queue on Everest
I can't imagine wanting something so badly that I'd put up with waiting in a queue that's so long people actually end up dying in it.
I can't imagine wanting a picture of yourself so badly and actually end up dying taking it.
Selfie deaths caught on camera actually seems to be an actual trending thing these days. As horribly mentally diseased as that is.
Death in or by the ultimate selfish pursuit, which has some similarities to scaling the highest mountain on Earth I thought.
Funny ole Whurl eh @ Incognito.
Jan 2018 whilst at the lower regions of the Himalayas, I was listening to an old 80 something guy telling me his memories of Partition. Ding ding from the sound of the cellphone – a selfie came through with a of a sibling, her mate, and Jacinda – at that post election Labour Party get together in the "Rapa".
A couple of weeks later, realising the extent to which the family was indebted as a result of sending the grandchildren to supposedly ethical and non-corrupt countries such as NuZull for an education, he gave up eating. Two weeks after I returned to lil ole blissful NuZull, he "expired". And two weeks after that, his wife also "expired"
It was truly gorgeous.
I can't imagine risking it all to do something so many have already done . The irony is they will call the dead heroes while if I died doing my job they would find a reason to blame me.
Nah, they would say they died doing what they loved doing.
bwaghorn You wouldn't be having a sensational death. The tv and computer simulation generation need something big to fire up the synapses that relate to reality. Something to take their eyes away from their devices. And doing ‘your’ job is something they have less and less knowledge of or will experience.
A long-term job requiring skill and personal commitment – this is going to be uncommon here – unless we can steer the Dingy Dinghy away from sterile waters. That's an analogy of what will face us on all of our personal frontiers if we continue as we are doing.
I am adding to the comment a bit on the theme I referred to – 'dead and sterile waters'. I have heard this mentioned occasionally, so I'll add a diversion to this topic:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dead_zone_(ecology)
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2018/jan/04/oceans-suffocating-dead-zones-oxygen-starved
https://oceanservice.noaa.gov/facts/deadzone.html
https://www.businessinsider.com.au/map-of-worldwide-marine-dead-zones-2013-6?r=US&IR=T
https://www.nationalgeographic.com/magazine/2018/08/explore-atlas-great-barrier-reef-coral-bleaching-map-climate-change/
We/I use that call frequently Robert. Usually in a sombre voice though no snow round here..
Yeah, I've noticed that, ianmac, over time. I was making a play on may with an upper-case "M" but either it was too obscure, too boring or just not amusing but no one appeared to take my meaning
Actually I thought you were on the toilet
Quote from David Fane's Dad character going to the pub in Bro Town.
Any sober reading of the Zero Carbon Act would have to conclude that, like the ETS, the Zero Carbon Act is another cynical attempt to put off doing anything about climate change in the here and now.
Fuck off. There is nothing "cynical" about it. Compromise it may be, but Shaw has worked extremely hard and done the very best faith best job he possible can. You on the other hand spend your life bleating on the interwebs.
It’s just his best job isn’t very good according to a lot of people.
You can fuck off too.
I support solkta's comments.
Kia ora Robert,
The Zero Carbon Act has not one measure to cut GHG emissions.
Not one.
It also lays out no measure at all of meeting the various targets.
Without any measures to restrict them, or penalties for exceeding them, emissions will keep on rising under this legislation.
Nice to see such civil discourse unfold so early on a beautiful Saturday morning..nice.
TS is what people make of it. Same with politics, same with everything really …
Don't I know it!, still seems a bit brutal to start your first reply with ‘fuck off’, I mean I am known by some as a bit of a immovable and often insufferable hard arse, but at least I try and keep it a bit civil to begin with, it’s just good manners.
Adrian James likes rough handling; that is his addiction. He presents so he can get tongue-lashed. Applied psychology and sociology is the major way we will grope our way through the fog of mishaps and occasional beneficent activities to the uncertain future that is there for some of us.
“ James likes rough handling”
i guess you use comments like that to women who cop it from their partners – don’t worry ‘they love it’
You may feel strongly about the issue Solkta, as do I but geeez, some of the wording in your comments don't help anything or anybody or your cause.
I also support solkta's comments. We've had plenty of polite correspondence with people who can't seem to understand that Labour and the Greens don't have either the numbers in Parliament or the electoral mandate to implement the radical agenda these people would like. Every gain like the Zero Carbon bill is the product of hard-fought negotiations resulting in inevitable compromises. The people who continually greet those gains with contempt and dismiss the effort it took to achieve them can just fuck off, enough with the polite approach.
Agree. I'm all for civil discourse, but there comes a point where you just lose patience. "Wah wah only 5 out of 10 what's the point they're all the same blah blah …".
Those idiots gave us John Key, and if they've forgotten everything in only 18 months, then they deserve Simon Bridges as punishment. (Unfortunately if they get him, so do we).
It comes across as idiotic when you've got people like Cinny(apologies if I got that wrong Cinny) or people like [McFlock] who are infatuated with powering down and cutting growth rates while at the same time desiring to take pole position on the technological, financial and political philosophies of climate change. There's probably more to recommend against signalling how virtuous some one is by the level of internally incoherent dialogue of being outraged by political decisions than can be recommended. Y'know? If you're arguments with friends are stupid it's probably not the governments fault.
Sam – you have a particularly corrosive way of expressing yourself and I wonder if you are aware of it. Reading your comments leaves me feeling as if part of me has been attacked by acid and that's even when your discussion is with someone else; are you conscious of the effect I'm describing? Others here express similar uneasiness with your comments, I've noticed.
Probably the more some one articulates their feelings to me the more I careless about it. If there's an attempt to communicate together then I'd take it under advisement.
Interesting response, Sam. Are you easily able to differentiate between feelings and observations? My observation is that people sometimes react to your comments negatively because of the corrosive manner in which you express yourself. Did you not think my comment to you was an attempt to communicate with you? Your response is unclear, regarding that point.
It seems to me that despite your dismissal of the expression of “feelings” by others, you delight in provoking feelings/emotions through your use of language. It seems a cynical ploy to provoke, then deride, the expression of feelings and emotion. Again, I wonder if you are aware of this.
Well, the way I debate and I'll let you in on a little secrete is I want to convince the person I'm arguing with that there arguments are low IQ, dog shit basically.
I suspect it's more that words don't trigger me the way that users would normally intend. Y'know, I argue that being woke, that wearing feelings on ones sleeves or keyboard has morally bad consequences and leads to political polarization. And there's increased levels of cynicism about moral values in public life now that people are suffering from outrage exhaustion from being outraged at everything in order to show how good one is then outrage no longer becomes a reliable signal of serious injustice in the world.
That is quite insightful for me, thank you.
Arguments don’t have an IQ; they have more or less merit and this is what should be debated IMO. If somebody makes an argument that has little merit, in your eyes, then commenting on their IQ is not debating the (merit of the) argument but a personal attack.
Similarly, judging somebody as “woke” is a personal judgement; you could be right or wrong, but when it becomes a ‘green light’ to attack them personally you are not addressing their arguments but tilting at your own personal judgment of them.
Being “woke” has become an overused and badly used cliché that further divides, separates, and polarises. Mean what you, say what you mean, and don’t use lazy labels that mean something else.
^secret
^their
Much more than a little secrete
Here's another little secrete that differentiates me from the woke: I'm not trying to tell people what to do. I prefer people think for themselves.
Oh, and secret 😏
Secrete – Discharge lol
Do us a sneaky patero
Sure if you want to nitpick, Incognito. I'm sure you are well with in your rights as a moderator to put certain words you are uncomfy with on some endangered species list. I'm sure some other description of internally incoherent rhetoric designed from the bottom up to signal how virtuous one is will again find some other meaning in pop culture.
Your little secretion, Sam, wanting to convince someone that their IQ is low (I presume that's what you mean. Incognito makes a good point re the difficulty of assigning IQ to an argument) is an unpleasant one. There are few people who would care to debate you, knowing of your intention. Many people who comment here enjoy debate and aim to prove their assertions right and their opponent’s wrong, I suppose, but only you, it seems, seek to label the arguments of others, "dog shit".
You claim to "prefer people to think for themselves", yet seek at the same time to denigrate their thinking with demeaning labels?
I find your claims unconvincing and lacking integrity, by which I mean your reasoning is poor.
Sorry, just skim reed your comment rob. It's more probably that I didnt say or claim anything that's in your own head in an attempt to undertake Herculean mental gymnastics.
I would argue that IQ is a low form of measuring intelligence. Testing for IQ began as far as I'm aware as away for the US army to judge who was suitable candidates to join and I just don't think that's worth admiring.
Prefer EQ myself.
You didn't say or claim anything that's in my head?
That's a relief.
Further to that "bot" thing: you often combine words in a way that looks like faulty programming, rather than a grammatical failing of a human: "away", for "a way", "careless" for "care less".
It's quite peculiar.
Like I say. I'm not trying to tell people what to do. If I was trying to be a cancerous wanker then I'd apply for a job and speaka da interview language so I could tell people what to do for cash, not for nothing.
Honestly, for me it was just too early for all the 'fuck you's' in the conservation.
Just going to take a wild guess that you don't much drive over the Harbour bridge from about 5 in the morning to 9am.
Who could possibly "drive over the Harbour bridge from about 5 in the morning to 9am? That's 4 hours continuous driving? Is there a bridge-sweeping truck that might do that? Some one who's lost their way? Your logic is … loose, Sam.
The Ferry. It's the only way.
Many of your responses seem only tenuously connected to the comment you are responding to, Sam. Many of the phrases you use seem more like those generated by a bot than a human mind; just an observation, not a criticism. I enjoy trying to make sense of your wilder witherings. The ferry surely isn't "the only way" given there's a bridge…
I'd rather swim across the hauraki than drive in peak hour.
5 till 9 is "peak hour"?
I see 4 in there.
Least we know congestion hasn't eased.
Sam, ferries run from 6am JS.
Northcote point jetti is the knurliest at that time of morning.
It's heartening to know then Sam, that more people are using public transport if that's the case.
Aucklands transport corridors are not optimal. They're $100 billion behind.
“Honestly, for me it was just too early for all the ‘fuck you’s’ in the conservation.”
That's what rapey assange thought
Are you trying to tell me that Assange was having a good think?
Why even go there allen?
Unless you have a similar sort of agenda as National prioritised which was pretty much based on levels of immigration that pushed house prices rapidly into the stratoshpere and suppressed wages for the lowest income earners no govt would deliberately work against an agenda that would bring some rebalancing for the majority of NZers. Whether it is water issues, nurse and teacher wages, education, housing etc etc this coalition govt would I am sure love to hand every NZer what they wanted on a plate. It just can't happen and NZ needs them to be re-elected or be faced with another National govt and most thinking NZer know they do not want that.
As for the media when it comes to "leaders" why after a story in the NZ Herald about the PM's "closest confidantes" does the one on Bridges begin from a fawning Audrey Young (I think) that he has fewer than the PM as if he is practising some "economy" in the face of her "excess". NZ knows how he can fritter $100k in a couple of months to try to prop himself up.
Personally, I don’t have a problem with ‘strong’ language, although it think it is no more effective that polite language. I do have a problem with pointless personal abuse and attacks. Problem is that the two easily cross over.
I will how ever admit to a slight outburst of laughter at the thought of members of the moderation team knowing what Mc Flocks true name is.
why would that amuse you?
Mc Flock
Scottish sheep. That's my handle, don't wear it out.
k
Next a declaration of climate emergency, then doing what is needed.
charming..
Thank you maui.
Ooh. Feeling a little pent up this morning are we snowflake?
shaw is a waste of space – a laughing stock. From your comment I guess you can see it as well.
James, if I may; in trying to wind solkta up, you are saying foolish things about a politician I support and while you have the right to do so, you are coming across as a light-weight and as frothy as.
I really wanted to comment on this "the phrases you use seem more like those generated by a bot than a human mind" but can't reply on that one
Anyone reading as I am courtesy of Mothers' Day, how well my children know me – Ben Elton's new book "Identity Crisis". If ever a "truer word was said in jest" it is in there, the main theme is how people are sucked in and exactly how the "word" is spread – by the bot.
I recognised myself in the variations as well I must admit but the problem is who has the most funds as usual to claim the majority of the "field", the only way to combat it is with numbers on social media, and even better in person out in the community, as well as getting people actually out to vote when they need to.
Convivial discussions amongst friends is the most powerful political force there is, Rapunzel, I reckon.
Convivial and I would hope productive.
They generally are, Rapunzel and these days, increasingly so. I reckon it's the "new way" to effect change; inspired, good hearted discussion, followed by whatever opportunity for action presents itself.
Robert – just because you support him – it didn’t prevent me (and others) seeing him as a useless waste of space.
So what duties are you saying James Shaw is performing poorly or are you using more eccentric views of the government? If I need examples of poor execution of policy I'd look no further than NOVA pay of the ANZAC upgrades. I get that Shaw's performance is below par but be honest, this government was handed piles and piles of dog shit by the previous government.
James; Sam answered you best.
nice we have you to judge Robert.
You prefer it so a simple fuck off you supported earlier ?
"so a simple fuck off" James – language!
It's just really difficult to shine shitty policy. I mean what the fuck was all those water quality targets Nick Smith tried to Shepard in.
New Zealand is a free society and open economy. If you can't handle that then the alternatives are limited to dictatorships, I hope Y'know.
Solkta said: "Shaw has worked extremely hard and done the very best faith best job he possible can" and I support that wholeheartedly. Your silly, lightweight wittering hasn't helped your cause at all, James. Sam made an accurate comment about "the previous government" and I support that comment as well. It's really not a good round for you, James; perhaps an early night with a cup of hot Bovril?
I don't know why you would think from my comments that i am unhappy with Shaw's performance. I think he is doing an excellent job.
My objection though was not about an appraisal of his performance but rather of his character.
I am presently having trouble posting more than a few lines at a time, or at most a paragraph, on this site. So post comments on the Daily Blog.
I barely care what you say here, except when you get offensive, so why would i care what you say over there.
Hi Solkta. I sorry that you find what I have to say offensive. I am not trying to be offensive. Believe me I don't wish to offend you. I am trying to deal in facts. And the facts are that the Zero Carbon Act does not include one measure to cut or even limit greenhouse gas emissions. Nor does it have any measures at all to bind a government or anyone else to the targets set out in it.
My conclusion that, "the Zero Carbon Act is another cynical attempt to put off doing anything about climate change in the here and now." In my opinion is a reasonable conclusion to make, afterall the authors, including James Shaw, are not stupid people. They know that their bill, as set out, will make not one blind bit of difference.
Yes a Climate Commission will be set up, whose task will be to hold the government of the day to account if they don’t meet the targets. The job of holding the government of the day to account is the job of the opposition parties.
Under the Act the Climate Commission is being given zero statutary powers.
The only way the Climate Commission can hold the government to account is in a letter to the papers. Or through a proxy raising it in parliament for them.
And just like all opposition attempts to hold a government to account, can be ignored, and will be.
Hi Solkta. I sorry that you find what I have to say offensive. I am not trying to be offensive. Believe me I don't wish to offend you. I am trying to deal in facts. And the facts are that the Zero Carbon Act does not include one measure to cut or even limit greenhouse gas emissions. Nor does it have any measures at all to bind a government or anyone else to the targets set out in it.
My conclusion that, "the Zero Carbon Act is another cynical attempt to put off doing anything about climate change in the here and now." In my opinion is a reasonable conclusion to make, afterall the authors, including James Shaw, are not stupid people. They know that their bill, as set out, will make not one blind bit of difference.
Yes a Climate Commission will be set up, whose task will be to hold the government of the day to account if they don't meet the targets. The job of holding the government of the day to account is the job of the opposition parties.
The only way the Climate Commission hold the government to account is in a latter to the papers. Or through a proxy raising it in parliament for them.
And just like all opposition attempts to hold a government to account, can be ignored, and will be.
I am not trying to be offensive.
You suggested that Shaw was "cynical". If you asked me for an antonym of "cynical" one of the best i could come back with would be "James Shaw." If you don't understand why your bile is offensive then perhaps just give up commenting, you really don't seem to have a clue.
“The truth is incontrovertible. Malice may attack it, ignorance may deride it, but in the end, there it is.”
Winston Churchill
"In my opinion is a reasonable conclusion to make"
That and "the truth" are not necessarily the same thing
It's fast following the international regime. Any change (GW at least) is international not local.
Realising change locally is like waiting for philanthropy to finance public health and education one family at a time.
While it's not what many who truly understand the situation would like it to be, it also puts demands for change on the many who either don't understand what the future holds, or do know and don't care. James Shaw has at one point said that if it upset every one equally then he would know that he had done his job. By that he means that he will have achieved what is politically possible and moved our country someway towards addressing our excessive GHG emissions.
Having said that there was a student strike here yesterday joining the many thousands globally demanding action on addressing Climate Change.
For a positive read I link to this article on Vox:
One of the largest environmental protests ever is underway. It’s led by children.
Kids are fed up with grown-ups’ inaction on climate change.
https://www.vox.com/2019/5/24/18637552/youth-climate-strike-greta-thunberg
"One of the largest environmental protests ever is underway. It’s led by children."
Why is it that comments like this remind me of an earlier Children's Crusade?
That didn't turn out too well for the participants did it?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Children%27s_Crusade
That was the heading of the Article I linked to.
And no it won't turn out well for our children and grandchildren either. They know that only too well . Perhaps better than many adults. Which is why they are struggling to get people to wake up to the reality that we adults will be handing on to them, and pleading with us to do something about it now.
Not looking good.
https://sites.google.com/site/sjlewisprojects/_/rsrc/1516822164931/Home/the-ascent-of-man/ExtendedImage.jpg?height=237&width=400
Having reached peak IQ in the 20th century,and evidence that there is a correlation between school days (persistence) and higher IQ the tipping point being a few more days off school.
https://www.sciencealert.com/iq-scores-falling-in-worrying-reversal-20th-century-intelligence-boom-flynn-effect-intelligence
Alwyn THAT was in the the 1200s.
Over 800 years ago for context.
Alwyn has walked with dinosaurs 😉
I've always thought his grumpiness was the result of regularly passing coprolites.
Alwyn would be petrified at the thought.
"walked with dinosaurs".
I have indeed. I was at University with Geoffrey Palmer. He was best described then as being the only person who behaved like an OAP while still in his early 20s.
Which one?
https://www.revolvy.com/page/Geoffrey-Palmer?cr=1
There are rather a lot, or more precisely were a lot aren't there?
I mean, as I am sure you assumed, The Right Honorable Sir Geoffrey Winston Russell Palmer KCMG AC QC PC.
Can you think of any other politician who could come out with the statement "New Zealand is a pluvial country", meaning "it rains a lot"?
I could swear there is a link with dinosaurs and a quick Google search showed me (almost) right: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carnian_Pluvial_Event
was 900 years ago but shows we have not learnt much re children and mass hysteria Salem witch trials also cone to mind
"also cone to mind"
The Cone of Silence – children should be seen and not heard?
Anyone feeling any sympathy for Theresa May?
Me neither. Inequality spiraling upward, Conservatives preparing to strip labour standards and regulation to smash workers and race the poorest of Europe to the bottom, and she fueled the vilest anti-immigrant rhetoric within her own Ministers.
May the Conservative Party eat itself to death.
I think the best that historians will be able to say about her time as Prime Minister is that it wasn't quite as appalling as the term in office of her successor (whoever that turns out to be).
Can you imagine Boris Johnson?
That'd almost trump Trump
Well…
Sure. Impossible job. Voted Remain and the grown up thing for a PM of the UK to do was to negotiate a deal.
But making a deal the EU and getting her party to support it was difficult (most of her caucus preferred a no deal Brexit and were just stringing her along – running down the clock). So she was Bruised, Raabbed, Mogged, Haunted, slandered as Loathsome, but she never Gave in but Jived to her own beat until time placed the inevitable Mordaunt stake in her post Stewart dynasty heart.
The soon to be (in June) caretaker PM (should that not be undertaker) will still have the privilege of hosting Donald J Trump in his orange spray painted face and hair brand glory. Delivering a blunt message – hand over Assange or you won't get a FTA on my terms. The USA will run a future Tory government as the Germans did the Vichy regime.
Is POTUS going to meet with ERII?
Yes. And Melania. And all the adult children and their spouses.
However those at the Palace are spared the overnight presence of the family because of renovations …
Ta
Yep that just about sums it up. She was handed a hospital pass by Cameron. In many ways she did her best to make some sort of sense out of a can of worms. The rare possibility of a 2nd confirmatory vote on any "deal" is now a gone burger as well. There are 3 possibilities.:
I don't think UK Labour come out of this smelling of roses either. Indeed, UK politics is probably at it greatest ebb ever. There is far too much factional discord across both major parties, and it is not good for the country.
Indeed, I'm almost coming to the conclusion that the best way forward is for a no-deal Brexit! This would indeed shut up the alt-right and alt-left – they would have their way, and the reality, from the resulting chaos would be such that even the most ignorant of non-thinking voters who voted Brexit would suddenly be demanding to rejoin the EU. Whatever happens – the UK will never be the same again, and it will take years to recover from this disaster – if at all.
Well I can empathise with how she felt at that moment and I can respect her persistence in the face of what turned out to be insurmountable odds. I know I certainly would not have had the courage to face down the situation she was in.
This doesn't mean I have to sympathise with the political austerity the Tories have inflicted on Britain the in the slightest. But neither is reflexively demonising all conservatives a useful tactic either; it just promotes more polarisation and more failure to actually get anything done.
Well said.
ditto.
Theresa May is not a demon. I don't like her political bent but she did what she thought she had to do. I have empathy for her situation.
You are right in totally rejecting Tory austerity, any person with any kind of human empathy at all would feel the same,but by the same token I would also say that instinctively I feel that trying to move any Tory left would be as fruitless as Labour NZ's own abortive attempts to this in the past. Those who vote that way, don't move in any significant numbers politically (which is the one and only thing I respect them for, at least they know what the believe).
Corbyn is right in steadfastly holding to his and Labours Socialist manifesto, and aim at bringing on voters from other demographics and persuasions, thereby when Labour (hopefully) win, it will be on the back of a public mandate, and so they can govern without constant comprise and kowtowing to the right, which as we are witnessing in NZ today, is a bit of a disastrous way to try and govern.
But of course these sort of politics takes real conviction, something that even Corbyn’s most severe detractors would acknowledge him to have.
I don't respect her or feel sympathy for her. She was a brainwashed class-ridden fellow-traveller from the Tory camp. She wanted to be PM and get the glory that they gave to Margaret Thatcher. She wasn't as good a schemer and didn't have the same level of advice I think. She took on the job but wasn't bright and politically nimble enough to resile from the impossible and unreasonable actions that had been left for someone truly thick about applied education in real life but merely trained to be head girl prefect always doing his/her best.
She attended a Roman Catholic primary school in Begbroke – which closed down – such an unfortunate coincidence of name and circumstance. May 'won a place' at a State Grammar School and attended the University of Oxford, read geography at St Hugh's College, and graduated with a second class BA degree in 1977. …After graduating in 1977, she worked for the Bank of England. She also served as a councillor for Durnsford in Merton.
A woman plotting her way to power – but it's uneasy for the top banana. When the coalition government was formed after the 2010 general election, May was appointed Home Secretary and Minister for Women and Equalities, but gave up the latter role in 2012. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theresa_May
Aspirational women may not want to be concerned about 'women and inequalities' but if May had been she would not have agreed to be involved in getting out of the EU which would inevitably increase inequality. She requires daily medication – May was diagnosed with diabetes mellitus of type 1 in November 2012. She is treated with daily insulin injections. Breaking with the EU means that flows of imported medication will be disrupted. She must know this and how important medicine is to her, and also to the many who rely on them for maintenance of life. She gambled with the UK at the European casino table and lost. Respect for her – no dice.
May 'won a place' at a State Grammar School
To put this into context…she will have had to pass the 11-plus exam in order to get into the more academic grammar school as opposed to the more vocational secondary modern.
And, she considered the whole primary kids having to prove their academic worth while barely weaned so wonderful that she put some effort into resurrecting the 11-plus.
https://www.theguardian.com/education/2016/sep/09/would-you-get-into-grammar-school-take-our-11-plus-exam
Thanks Rosemary – I didn't have time to go into that aspect, wondered but moved on. The conservative woman wants everything to be competitive I think; you have to prove yourself worthy to be alive and don't expect to have fun while you do it. And worse, if you don't prove worthy and have your hand out for regular help, then don't ever consider laughing again. No choccy biscuits either, or hot showers.*
(Jenny Shipley, Ruth Richardson, and most Nationals and women from the rigid, frigid relidgious would be the same. (They could stand one of them in a kitchen pantry near glass shelves to keep food cool in summer.)
Edit
*Thinking of hot/cold showers made me think of the schools that were set up to harden up sissies like Gordonton that I think Prince Charles went to.
Looked it up and up comes abuse. Abuse is in the news constantly lately after that soldier talked about it happening in the NZ Defence Forces in the past. It is a constant it seems so here is a link to the Scottish school.
https://www.theguardian.com/society/2015/apr/12/child-abuse-at-prince-charles-former-school-scotland
About 25% of single parents in Britain now live in poverty.
About 30% of children are in poverty.
Income of the lowest three-fifths has barely kept up with inflation in 20 years.
The poorest fifth now spend over 40% of their income on accommodation.
25% of the poor have anxiety or depression.
In Scotland, nearly half of all households live in unfit dwellings.
40% of working-age UK adults have no qualification.
I haven't even got to the health system.
This is the responsibility of the Conservative Party.
https://www.jrf.org.uk/data
Great stuff Cameron passed the same-sex marriage legalization.
If you are not clear about what the Conservatives wanted to do with the UK economy once it leaves Europe, May's Chancellor spells it out in black and white for you here:
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-38628428
The Conservative Party should die, as an entity. Die.
If it weren't for the fact that millions of citizens will suffer needlessly as a result of their continued policies, I would welcome a further leadership selection in which Conservative leadership candidates are about to be turned into pieces of media-meat to be ripped apart by their own colleagues, just as they have been for the last three years.
Care more for the Scots. A recent history series about my people's country showed our competitive advantage in the 20th century was cheap labour. Still haven't discovered if they were poorer than the Irish, which I would feel like a scythe. Given the diaspora's massive success if we'd known we could have helped.
Do you think Theresa empathised with those people? Respected their persistence in the face of what turned out to be insurmountable odds?
Its not demonising..its called the brutal truth. The people of Britain are polarised, economically, socially, and Tory, and Centrist Labour policies are the number one factor. They are the people with power, they promoters of policies that nurture polarisation. The nutters just slip in there and take advantage of the situation.
(Crikey..what a mess, still trying to get on top of ‘quote’ with this new set up.)
Are you saying that TM or some people simply do not deserve (our) empathy? If so, have you thought through the logical consequences of that? In addition, how do you judge people who empathise with TM?
she does not deserve empathy.
she could have said no to the job – after all the choose remain
yet she choose the job, she failed – and who ever else will take the job will fail as you cant' work with a party that actually does not want to work – see republicans in the US.
it appears that her husband made a tidy coin – cause why not i guess
https://www.globalresearch.ca/disgusting-conflict-of-interest-theresa-mays-husbands-investment-firm-made-a-financial-killing-from-the-bombing-of-syria/5636632
http://www.stopwar.org.uk/index.php/news-comment/3017-philip-may-profiting-from-wife-s-military-policies
so no, that evil women is gone, she will live her life in awesome riches and polite company meanwhile people in the UK throw themselves of quarries cause their pension got cut to nothing and a men weighing in at 6 stones is declared fit for work. May karma find her and give her her dues.
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-wales-48212594
http://www.ladbible.com/news/uk-man-who-couldnt-stand-and-weighed-6-stone-was-declared-fit-to-work-20190204
The fellow at this video states it very well and so politely.
https://www.facebook.com/PeoplesMomentum/videos/881620555526352/?t=3
why on earth would should anyone have empathy for her, when clearly she gives not a flying fuck about anyone but herself. It was her party that made her life to hell.
If you could save her life, in an emergency, for example, would you do it?
i live by the credo of 'above all do no harm'.
yes, i would, i would give her painkiller, medication, take her to the hospital and make sure she be good, and then i would tell her that i hope she meets all those who died during her reign in the after live.
This women has served no one but herself. She fucked her country so many ways. She and her party oversea the death of about 10.000 people – poor people, old people, disabled people, sick people, and she has the fucking gall to cry because she was fucking useless, was appointed to be useless? Nah, may she live a life of plenty, may she life long, and may the death visit her every night of her long, cushy life.
I have enough of this empathy bullshit. these people kill us, err cull us. They starve us, our children, our elders, they sell our houses, our infrastructure, our hospitals to the highest bidder even tho it is us that financed it, build it, and maintain it. And they have the gall to cry because they are so openly incompetent that literally you have to resign because no one is standing for her bullshit anymore.
You look to France, England, US and various other nations and you will realise that it is us who looses freedom and life, not them.
so i have the exact amount of empathy for her that she has for me/us.
and the same counts for the orange shit show in the us.
Dear you do go looking for extreme articles and extrapolate that as the norm Rather depressing I would have thought as a daily routine , a female Ed or Paul ( with more expletives) or what ever he goes by these days
By the way being back Ed I miss him
Yes, we all miss him as shown by how much he still gets talked about here.
"being back Ed"
Well said.
People who try to circumvent a ban by using sockpoppets clearly are not fit to re-join TS as it shows bad faith on their behalf.
I personally don’t do requests for lifting bans place by others or handing out bans.
By all means, point out bad behaviour when you see it, but please stop making requests for people to be banned.
[This is a general comment]
That is a good credo to live by, Sabine, but with it comes with consequences, as always.
Do no harm, help people in need, and empathise with others are what makes us human, good humans IMO. I can and do (albeit infrequently) empathise with people whose actions I detest. This is not virtue signalling but understanding that people are complex beings and without walking in their shoes, we have no idea about their reasons or motives. In fact, their reasons and motives may well be sub-conscious.
To be honest, I have no idea how you can withhold empathy!? You either have or feel it or you don’t. When I empathise with a person I intensely dislike – yes, it has happened – it opens up a whole series of questions. To be even more honest, I sometimes avoid those questions because I choose or want to dislike that person and continue that … This is quite a confession to make in a public forum but it shows you how important empathy (and its twin, compassion) is, for you, for me, and for humankind.
Got me thinking. The effort required to empathise (e.g. to 'see' point(s) of contention from the opposition's point of view), can be proportional to the strength of belief in one's own view.
OR, the more certain I am that I’m right, the less time and effort I’ll put into considering alternative viewpoints. Does that make sense?
That’s quite a handful there. Got a link?
I’d struggle most with the third component.
Oops – the book chapter (if you can access it – it's behind a 'paywall' for me) may not be particularly relevant, but the free introduction began with that breakdown of the components of empathy which suited my reductionist turn of mind.
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/B9780124051720000041
It was the first article to come up in this link on empathy, found using Google.
https://www.sciencedirect.com/topics/psychology/empathy
Maybe ‘Blog communication‘ is empathically challenged?
Ta
Good grief, this is patronising bullshit if ever there was.
i have no olike mindedness, togetherness, closeness, fellowship, sympathy, rapport, affinity with her. I don't identify with her. I am no fellow of hers. I am the currently lower middle class person that she would tax into an early grave/homelessness. I am that poor person that she would let starve. I am that person that would die under her austerity rules and you want me to have empathy with her?
I can't because i am not filthy rich. I can't because i don't want to kill people in the name of profit. I can't because i don't want to deport people to please racists. I can't because i don't want to take mobility vehicles away from disabled people. I can't because i don't think that a raise in foodbanks is a sytom of how the 'system' functions.
I don't have empathy for her, because i am so far removed from her life i don't have any idea how she could do the myriad of things she and her government did that could kill over 10.000+ people.
I don't have empathy with a mass murderer, even when that mass murderer is a state sanctioned multi billionaire in an expensive suit who was useless at her job, who was so useless that she could not get her party to do what her party wanted to do. She was as useless as tits on a bull. if And she killed a whole lot of people with her austerity measures, threw a whole heep of people into homelessness, hunger and misery. NO i don't have any empathy with her, and frankly i would check my moral compass if i would have .
https://twitter.com/i/status/1131964775381053440
I feel a little sad about your comment and that you view my deeply personal reply to you as “patronising bullshit”. At no stage did I tell you or anybody else how to feel about TM. Obviously, I have completely misunderstood and misinterpreted your comments and I apologise for that. I’m going to leave it at that.
lol…well perhaps he meant to write ‘sympathy’…but I doubt she would warrant that either
No, I meant empathy (and compassion) and I was quite clear about that, I thought, but it spectacularly missed and got thrown back at me. Not my intention and not what I was expecting, that’s for sure. It has been a pretty shitty day here on TS 🙁
OK …would suggest difficult to expect empathy for an ambitious and blind to the point of self delusion politician from anyone other than that I would have thought….most people are a little more self aware
Yes, intention was good, example was wrong, delivery was poor. I’ve learned my lesson and will pull back on contentious issues where emotions flare up too easily as it only backfires. Still, there are other forums that are more suited for these kinds of in-depth conversations.
I find care for animals often goes with disdain for people. Bit too much demonization of the opponents in Left blogs. Ruth, Roge and Jenny were worth it but since, whatever they were doing it doesn't deserve a media noose.
I'm asking if TM empathised with the people dying and having lives of abject misery due to her policies. Given her determination to stick with those policies among many others, its clear she did not.
To my mind that would indicate a very very unpleasant, nasty, individual.
You are welcome to 'empathise' with such a person. I passed no judgment on that.
But if If you are asking me to judge you, well, I don't know, empathising with someone who represents such a selfish nasty ideology puts you in Nelson Mandela territory, I guess. The power of forgiveness and acceptance..who knows maybe she will feel that understanding and go on to do good works throughout the world. Or maybe not.
Though you must carry a dreadful burden, if you empathise with Theresa May you must be absolutely paralysed with grief for the victims of her policies.
Thank for your considered reply. I won’t make any further comments on this given my apparent faux pas with Sabine and I don’t want to inflame the situation any further. FWIW, I could only dream of being anywhere near “Nelson Mandela territory” …
i gave you a considered response to your very loaded question ' what would you do if she were in an emergency'
that question alone in my book was not in good faith. I politely explained the first time around why i have no empathy with a women who looses her job to incompetence. She should have never taken that job in the first place. She was and is an expensive suit full of cruelty, egoism, vanity and incompetence.
You are questioning my 'empathy and ability to feel for others' you question my 'credo' that i live by and you get a big sad when i tell you to bug off and take my answer for what it is.
I have no empathy for her, i have no compassion for her. As i stated earlier, i have the empathy and compassion for her that she shows to those of my class. None.
so please don't use "Sabine was mean' when you simply could not take my first answer as the truth that applies to me, and only tor me.
Above all do no harm, something that Theresa May has never considered.
Fair enough. I have already apologised to you and I did act in good faith but went about it in a bad way, evidently. As much as I have to respect your feelings you have to allow me to feel sad about your response to me. I commended you on your credo and whether you think I questioned your “empathy and ability to feel for others” is now a moot point; the harm is done. And please don’t put words in my mouth as I never said nor implied that "Sabine was mean”. Maybe best if we leave it at that.
They say shes clever but if your clever you let the next falla catch the hospital pass that leadership over there is at the mo.
Ad or Mod Could you look for a comment I put up re May about half hour ago or more please. It had a wikipedia quote in it that had more linked info than I realised. I think it was in OM but if you can change post, it could go into the Mayhem in the UK post as it has info about her educational and early work background and wikipedia link. I found her intransigence and Sisyphus like approach to the job perplexing. So thought a bit about her would round off the comments.
I believe it is @ 11:32 AM, yes?
Anyone feeling any sympathy for Theresa May?
Not a bit. If she had any sense of honour, she would have resigned years ago. She was a remorseless liar.
The U.K. Will find very little love in ASEAN and OCEANIA after they unceremoniously dumped Singapore and the rest of South Asia pre WW2 after being imperial douche novels. And dumping Australia, New Zealand and the rest of the pacific commonwealth to join the EU. They're just juvenile amateurs. We don’t need em.
I did in the early stages, then She just went on and on and on and on – not unlike some days in here. May Her Holier Than Thou stubbornness comfort her. I've got better people to feel sorry for, and there's only so much to go around. I'm probably not a good enough toff anyway that she'd even want my sympathy.
Jenny
re the carbon zero bill
Its pathetic
Politics is the art of whats possible
In the current climate heh heh any change is incremental
Thats why a massive ground swell movement is whats needed to make the politicians aware their electoral base demands change
Magnify the kids climate strikes by 10, join with them, every last Friday of the month
keep doing it
Thats where change comes from…as well as all the changes you make in your own life…actually for your own health and well being primarily.Notching back the consumer goods, having the courage to ignore fashion, living a real life
Post May forecast.
1. Brexit with no deal.
2. a vote of no confidence motion is passed in parliament and new elections are held.
3a. If Labour and LD and the SNP form a government afterwards they will hold a referendum to get public consent to return to the customs union and single market.
3b If the Tories win,Trump tells them to hand over Assange and sign the FTA he writes because they have no alternative, they have no leverage.
4. The UK will become like the Ukraine (each election is a pro EU or Russia referendum) each election would be lacky of the US or part of the EU choice. Hardly the stuff of proud national independence.
“3a. If Labour and LD and the SNP form a government afterwards they will hold a referendum to get public consent to return to the customs union and single market.”
if you think that you are in idiot. There is no chance of a referendum to rejoin parts.
And Assanage will be heading the the Us regardless- as he should to stand trial for crimes he has (supposedly) been responsible for. Along with standing trial for rapes.
Given they wanted a deal with May where the UK stayed in the customs union and single market witha referendum to get public consent – why would they not campaign on that and then deliver it if they won government majority in the Commons?
Your not wanting their policy, or them to be in govenment to apply it, is not an argument you know …
Well, there's actually a lot of very good reasons why Assange shouldn't be surrendered to the US. As unpleasant a duty as making that argument actually is, given what a monumental asshole (and alleged rapist) Assange actually is.
Most important is that the US going after Assange is an attack on the free press. It's an attempt to overturn centuries of precedent protecting the activity of publishing factual information, regardless of how that information got into the publisher's hands. That right to publish really is an important safeguard, and it's no coincidence that it's one of the first thing to be lost on the path to vicious authoritarian and totalitarian dictatorships.
But that’s certainly not an argument against sending him to Sweden to answer for the rape allegations. Indeed, given that Assange will actually have more opportunity to fight against extradition to the US from Sweden than he does from the UK, that’s even more reason to send him to Sweden.
An alternative timeline.
He does not betray those who put up his bail money and serves a short sentence in Sweden (they have degrees of rape levels). He would have been out before Obama left office.
He still exposes the DNC and Clinton and plays a part in Trump's election. Trump tries to have him extradited from wherever he lived at the time – if he got advance notice he would be in an apartment in Moscow next door to Snowden. If not he would be in custody while the extradition trial was going on.
As it is he needs to go to Sweden (and serve some time) to improve his chances of not being extradited while Trump is in office. Like the strongman Trump postures as being, he is not really a defender of a free press. He is probably trying to make the extra charges against Assange a point of difference against the MSM in the USA (and their Democrat candidate) for re-election purposes.
In that alternative timeline, he would have been out and freely moving about for several years with Obama and the DOJ having decided it was not in the US national interest to prosecute him (because of the potential chilling effect on legitimate publishing). Then when Genghis Don comes after him, Assange has a much stronger argument against extradition that it's politically motivated.
Yet another reason to be pissed off at Assange on a personal basis; that his running and hiding in the embassy has actually opened an opportunity for Hair Fuhrer to mount an attack on the free press that might actually succeed.
Finally, some common ground
But Andre, you are more optimistic than I am about Sweden being guided by its own laws versus bowing down to or accepting some quid pro quo deal with the US re extradition
In the current political climate there seems to be a lot of lip service paid to "the international rules based order", but not a lot of shame attached to flouting it
eg https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/may/22/uk-suffers-crushing-defeat-un-vote-chagos-islands
The UK should have bowed to the decision of the ICJ long before it got to this
Also this
https://www.ohchr.org/en/NewsEvents/Pages/DisplayNews.aspx?NewsID=24042&LangID=E
It is perfectly possible constitutionally for Sweden to assure Assange of immunity from onward extradition , particularly given the new charges under the espionage act
Amnesty International has advocated for Assange in this respect, repeatedly
https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2012/09/sweden-should-issue-assurance-it-won-t-extradite-assange-usa/
That was in response to your remarks at 5.1.2
The following remarks
dear god!
To add to the list Assange is now responsible for the the attack on press freedom
A little like rape victims being blamed for being female
Given the instability of the UK at the moment I'd be superficially inclined to agree that Sweden might be his better bet at the moment.
When I think back to the billions of pixels expended on this relatively modest matter (the original inquiry to the Swedish police revolved around a simple request for STD testing) … compared to the millions of women who have undergone horrendous oppression and sexual violation in numerous countries since … it's clear that we utterly lost any sense of proportion and significance over this.
Here is one random link illustrating what I mean:
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/mar/21/kachin-women-from-myanmar-raped-until-they-get-pregnant-in-china
What do you imagine these women would think about the Assange affair? Why do they count for so very much less than one very privileged Swedish woman?
Assange has maintained his innocence from the outset and made his case:
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-12-07/julian-assange-goes-public-on-rape-allegations/8099276
On the face of it the most desirable way forward for Assange should be to go to Sweden and fight the matter in Court. But this always was a politically motivated prosecution, and therefore the Swedish justice system is corrupted and cannot be trusted. Moreover minds are made up and even if a Swedish Court was to exonerate him, many progressives will obdurately regard him as a vile sexual offender of the worst kind.
Innocent or guilty, the Americans have achieved their corrupt aim, Assange is now damned for life.
Thank you Red Logix
I really appreciate that
There are degrees of rape , just as there are degrees of assault and verbal violence and libel and fraud and theft and dishonesty
What Assange is accused of is several degrees beneath violent sexual assault
I get pretty tired of men here , often with violent phallic based language prosletysing about rape as if they're more feminist than feminists.
Until they themselves get raped up an orifice they can take my word for it , there's a difference between getting woken up by a lover for further sex, or a torn condom, or no condom, and a violent sexual attack
In that respect there is such a thing as a non consensual issue over condoms or "lesser rape".
Under Swedish rape law (degrees of rape – including without a condom if this is required for consent), he would be found guilty. The reason being the women went to police after they compared experiences – corroborating stories would convict. They knew he was guilty of an offence and their first concern was the STD matter. Knowingly infecting them would have been an offence also.
The politicisation came later. It was a minor rape charge matter and he was not a local, so persistance was the politicisation – for some feminist credentials as a prosecutor for others becoming an agent for pro American political bosses.
The Swedish record for prosecuting rape is not great, success rates low, tardiness, bungled evidence keeping , general dissatisfaction amongst survivors with the justice system, in other words not a huge will to see justice for rape victims in the legal system
Leads me to the notion that the Assange case is hugely politically motivated, and the rights of the women complainants have taken very much a back seat.
https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2019/04/rape-and-sexual-violence-in-nordic-countries-consent-laws/
Theres the age of consent, giving consent and retracting consent. Did I miss one?
Its not wrong to ejaculate into the woman's vag with out a condom on once consent has been given. If the passage is able to accept and woman strong enough to carry a baby it's really not a bad thing to do.
Sex with out consequences is more of a problem than giving birth to some causal acquaintance. That's just not egalitarian. Planning a society should be moving towards a situation of nurturing children under any cicumbstance not recoiling from it.
TBH I don't much care for the plight of woman beyond that which immigrate to New Zealand. I'd be happy increasing defence and law enforcement funding to deal with a global sex trafficking ring, perhaps if I was 20 years younger I would like to join in on such operations again but kicking in doors Taken stylez is a young mans game.
Criminal investigstions is quite unsexy do people really want to know what it takes or are people willing to hand wave all the subtle details as need to know, don't be a conspiracy theorist ect. And I'm challenging people's perception of police and defence spending because not always does the rhetoric match the will to fund.
So what if worse things happen elsewhere? Those perpetrators should be charged, too.
Of course, that falls down if the prosecution merely submits its case to a court. Even if "politically motivated" were true.
lol I don't think anyone's calling him a Jimmy Saville. Nice straw man.
As for the "innocent or guilty" line, if he's guilty, him committing sexual assault has nothing to do with the yanks. If he's innocent, a trial is the closest he'll get to demonstrating it.
Those perpetrators should be charged, too.
But they won’t be.
a trial is the closest he'll get to demonstrating it.
Everyone knows the entire charade is politically motivated. By now I simply don't trust either the Brits, Yanks or Swedes to do anything other than fuck him over.
Or all three take turn about at gangbanging him into oblivion for speaking truth to power.
"Or all three take turn about at gangbanging him into oblivion for speaking truth to power."
please watch your language – those who have actually suffered abuse and sexual violence may well be triggered by your 'bishoptamaki-like' remarks.
Were you triggered by that comment ?
I find Red Logixs analogy to be totally apt, and I am not triggered by it
Assange is being raped, thoroughly and absolutely and with impunity by the many who need him to be destroyed
"Assange is being raped, thoroughly and absolutely and with impunity by the many who need him to be destroyed"
what a load of fucken bullshit.
yup
In response to a woman, who also stated she was not triggered by RL's comment …
Who else are you pretending to represent?
Maybe not raped, but certainly f**ked over – right-wing politicians, and management of the MIC and intelligence agencies, are drooling in anticipation of revenge for being embarrassed by WikiLeaks.
You think Assange is being legally and fairly treated by the U.K. regime, do you, Marty?
"Maybe not raped…"
ummm yeah maybe nothing at all like raped eh unless you think rape is like when you drool.
Marty… What does rape mean. Can you define it for us because your definitions are not what the EU would call rape… So enlighten me real quick so I can access whether it's useful.
sam – I think you are a low rider and I don't bother with your types.
if any commenter genuinely doesn't know what "rape" means, leave the conversation.
Or else what?
You'll start up screaming rape enabler …
Marty can't wait to scream racism …
You're the guys who cry wolf…
How is this helping except for starting a flame war?
BTW, that is a rhetorical question. So, do not answer it but please take the hint.
Even by Swedish standards rape has to involve a threat of violence or coercion, or unconsciousness, sleep, intoxication or influence by drugs, illness, bodily injury or mental impairment. From what either you, Marty or McFlock (sniggers) have you heard that Assange committed either of those offences in the course of intercourse.
Sex without consent. None of the above necessary.
I refer you to my previous comment.
One Two – you are not contributing to the discussion apart from meaningless abuse – just butt out if you can't discuss respectfully eh.
That's your comment to Francesca…
Did you forget already?
@1-2
Or else you'll be taking part in a conversation you cannot possibly understand, and will probably end up just once again recycling tropes used by men to get away with (or enable others to get away with) women since time immemorial.
And yes, if someone is making an effort to enable men to rape without accountability, I'll call them a "rape enabler" or some variation on that theme.
But that's a risk one takes if one insistsa on discussing rape without knowing what the term means.
Nah, you just like using insults…IMO…
Your definition of rape is sufficiently warped to be so narrow , no wonder you have no idea what you're talking about…
RL' s analogy , is appropriate.
Assange may or may stand trial in Sweden for rape allegations according to Swedish Law. He’s innocent until proven guilty of rape according to Swedish Law. No other ‘definitions’ of rape need to be evoked. Please stick to the facts, everything else is assumption or wild speculation and an exercise in futility that only seems to raise tempers here.
[This comment is directed to all of you]
Any particular reason you put that reply on my comment and not on the original by RL?
You've done that more than once now and on separate occasions, different subjects…when I was responding to McFlock…
Are you providing cover for McFlock and/or others here?
Or is it personal for you, from an exchange you and I have had previously?
Both, are questions…not accusations…and not rhetorical…you're welcome to reply…or not.
No particular reason and it was not personal, which is why I left a bolded note as well.
I think there are a number of commenters, including you, who are skating on thin ice. Anything Assange is controversial and people tend to be divided (polarised). Rape is a very sensitive topic and should not be used for ‘scoring points’ in any debate, not even about Assange, or most definitely not about Assange. His journalistic efforts have absolutely nothing to do with his bedroom escapades.
I think RedLogix’s choice of words @ 5.1.2.3.4.1 was very poor but tried to make a point, badly IMO. Nevertheless, it didn’t need to descend into a war of words between a bunch of commenters who appear to have an axe to grind, mainly with each other. In the pursuit of the truth, you have to stay focussed on facts and not be distracted by loud voices.
Anyway, it is up to you and others to take heed or not.
Given that I stay away from passing an opinion on the so called assange situation…regarding the allegations…
You must be referring to something or someone else…
I've involved myself in exchanges specifically when others (who don't get moderated)…become abusive in ways which are are absolutely intended to be hurtful…and I call it out..
Perhaps you can provide examples of why you believe I'm on thin ice..
You called it..back it up so I can get context of your opinion…because given what I read on this site…the insults, the abuse and regular tirades…almost exclusively unmoderated …
And your comments regarding self moderation …which is really a cop out ..and appears to be empowering a few regulars here to continue with rampant abuse…including against women here…go un moderated for the most part…
Even when their behaviour is called out…nothing seems to change…
Yeah I get it…the system admin like to flex ..when I pointed out some of the insults the response was…
…stop attempting to playthe victim…or ill make you one…(para..almost verbatim)…
This site empowers misogynists from the top…despite numerous past female and male commentators and authors leaving because of it..
Despite the meagre few female commentators calling it out from their perspective when under repeated attack by the sites angry little men…
Still nothing is done…
When a long time commentator, and former moderator uses a phrase ..which IMO…could to read as a direct challenge to poor state of this sites contributers…
Still nothing is done…
Your recent article about online speech and anger being essentially unavoidable…
Yet you (flying almost solo it seems) have moderator rights now…which you appear to not understand how to use…but the misuse and non use of them … is actually fanning the flames by endorsing the angry misogynists and abusive men on this site…top down.
Either moderate…or don't at all…sitting on the fence you should hand back mod rights..IMO…you don't need them…
So yeah…thin ice..examples.
It shows good manners if you ask nicely and say please. Good manners show respect. There is a distinct lack of either in your comment.
Nevertheless …
Your comment @ 25 May 2019 at 10:04 pm had nothing to do with any of the Assange allegations and was an overtly aggressive attempt to start a flame war, especially with two other commenters with whom you have ‘sparred’ before.
That’s thin ice and I was perhaps too lenient by giving you and others a chance to self-moderate. It seems that giving the benefit of doubt is not always the right thing to do.
You would have been on much safer ice when commenting on Assange instead of on other commenters.
You talk about calling out others but fail to acknowledge your own behaviour and the impact it has.
I understand that you don’t agree with the moderation or lack thereof on this site. I understand that you don’t think much of my moderation here either. Your criticism, however, lacks any constructive aspects except telling me (and other Moderators) what to do and what not.
That’s very thin ice, again.
Finally, I refer you to my comment (made today) to mauī @ 26 May 2019 at 10:36 am.
This thread about (my) moderation is now closed. I have given you the courtesy of engaging with you, but Moderation here is not up for litigation.
I'm addressing you as a commentator…
What sort of misplaced and inflated opinion must you have to make that statement…rhetorical.
Your perceived sense of self importance…where others should say please to satisfy that self perception… has lead you into a poor space, incognito…a deluded and transparent space at that…
Please and thank-you are words which can't be overused…
But your inference I should have said please…is to misappropriate use of the word against your own incorrect self perception of how you show respect…
You've misinterpreted and made incorrect assumptions…
…it happened because you reckon I should have said please to you…you reckon that pious statement …what…somehow gave you a high ground…
Actually, it completely undermines the sentiment of faux respect which you're toting around…
See if you can grasp that concept…
This comment is to you the commentator…as well as the personality which sits behind the online words…
That is an interesting analysis of me, which I will take on board, thank you.
There is no point demanding respect and politeness from someone who clearly does not want to give it, and I wasn’t; I made an observation about the fact that asking nicely goes a long way and that you hadn’t asked nicely, at all.
To be very clear, and I have said this to you before, I don’t need your respect but you need to adhere to this site’s rules and policy.
It was an observation.
Ok, you're not getting it , at all…
It was the very first sentence, and you were clearly seeking to empart your self perception of respect onto another…
Or why bother writing it…eh.
There was no disrespect in my comment…it was neutral…so you reached… for please…
So…
… despite protestations that you don't need respect…
…that statements appears to be in direct conflict with your observation … I would say…
If you don't need respect..no need to observe that you didn't receive any…is there..
Your final sentence is written from a moderators perspective apparently…
I am…once again responding to you…as a commentator…
Please hire a digger.
You have criticised me as commenter, author, moderator, and as a person. In addition, you have criticised the moderation on this site. It is starting to become rather boring. It is also a very nice distraction from you skating on thin ice in your other comments, which you have completely ignored. Not even a thank you from you for my considered and polite explanations and taking the time to engage with you. How disappointing, indeed.
You seem to think that by repeatedly and explicitly stating that you address me “as a commentator” you avoid criticising me as a Moderator. I’m sure that you’re not that naive and I find it laughable that you think you can get away with it. You have tried this trick with me several times before, so I’m calling a stop to it.
[Enough about me!]
I'm not laughing…yet.
Are you simultaneously a moderator and commentator ?
..because it sounds like that is the position you're painting yourself into…at least towards my comments…
Have I interpreted your sentiment correctly there?
It is no trick Incognito, and it should be blatant enough that a demarcation needs to exist between those who are also mods…
…if you're going to assume both roles at the same time …all the time..that would be farcical…
Oh you're taking the piss…that's how ill assume it to be taken…
Otherwise you're being serious in using such commentary…
Which I would then find, laughable…but unsurprising…
If my comments go over your head…you’re welcome to ask questions…
[Take some time off to carefully study this thread, in particular from where you attempted to start a flame war and my comments @ 10:13 PM, 11:23 PM, 11:42 PM, 12:41 PM, and 1:29 PM, in that order. You may find that all those comments of mine were in fact gentle moderation. However, on the one hand, you call for (more) moderation, yet on the other hand, you argue and detract from your own slip-ups and wilfully ignore explanations and warnings from a Moderator who also happens to be a commenter in other threads. In other words, you don’t care for moderation and blatantly disrespect the rules and policy of this site. You are welcome to re-join the fray after the teachers’ strike – Incognito]
See my Moderation note @ 4:02 PM.
"unless you think rape is like when you drool" – MM @9:25 pm
Wide of the mark, and unnecessarily personal IMHO.
I'll steer clear of delving into your thought processes, and reiterate:
It is my belief that there is a couple things you, Marty and McFlock are not being truthful and forthcoming about. So,
…, When was it that Assange was alleged to have committed the crimes you accuse him of,
…, and when did the sexual consent laws you seek to cover him in come into force in the Swedish jurisdiction?
You said it drowsy – if you have changed your mind then good but no one forced you to write your comment did they. I just highlighted why it was a poorly thought out response from you that's all.
You’ll notice I said “unless” – this is a self selection device – if it doesn’t relate to what you think then it isn’t relevant to you. I think I’ve treated you with respect actually considering what you wrote – don’t worry I’ll consider if I change that approach for next time.
“That’s your comment to Francesca…
Did you forget already?”
White knights to the rescue 🙄
So what I'm looking to do is assess both yours Marty, and Mc Flock (gets me in the feels every time) so I'm looking to assess your credibility by establishing a simple time between the the time Julian committed the offence he is accused of to the time you say the consent laws came into effect in order to check if there is any ideological connotations in either of your arguments.
Take your time. I'll pour myself a big fat drink and wait for you to google the answer and report back.
Marty (@10:26 pm), I wrote – "Maybe not raped, but certainly f**ked over"
Apologies if it wasn’t clear that I was agreeing with you, i.e. I think that it is incorrect and unhelpful to use the word ‘rape’ to describe the treatment of Assange by the ‘authorities’.
I’m not brave enough to describe it as “what a load of fucken bullshit”.
@ drowsy – sorry for getting it wrong. I was a bit surprised by your response as it seemed out of kilter – but alas it was me that was off. Apologies again.
Thanks Marty, all good – could/should have made it clearer by dropping 'Maybe' from the start of that sentence.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-immolation
@9.51am
Seriously, 12, grab a tissue and dry your eyes.
It's quite clear what game you and playing here, though when you play the victim, it's wise to have all your ducks in a row if you want a half decent shot at credibility. All you're getting at present is half arsed.
Just like you've used the death of innocent children to attack members on here, now you're using the smear of misogyny to attack those who have previously bested you in debate. I don't buy it as genuine concern for a minute.
If you were really concerned about the 'fucken bullshit' language used to rubbish a rubbish argument, why did you not post your new found, heartfelt distaste for the comments at 2.1 and 2.1.1.1 above?
I'm amazed that civilised RL could come out with that. I said the other day that mention of sex seems to wind up many like clockwork toys and press the button marked sex and Off They Go jumping up and down from soapboxes – keeping it clean you see.
Red Logix has to be one of the most patient ,considered , and thoughtful commenters on this site.I don't always agree with him, but he's always respectful in reply, and I've modified some of my views because of that
So when he uses language like that it I take him seriously
Many other commenters are on a hair trigger and quickly descend to foul abuse, for them its like some sort of boxing match
or rather cage fight
But you have been triggered by it francesca.
1 You have written in.
2 You have defended an extravagant sexual comment from RL.
3 You have put aside your standards of behaviour to support someone else and are taking 'sides' instead of judging matters dispassionately for yourself.
Just saying.
It's got nothing whatsoever to do with justice. The USA (and UK) have to be dragged kicking and screaming to even think about prosecuting war crimes committed by their own armed forces. The My Lai massacre in Vietnam is a good starting point to learn.
"Australian documentary-maker and occasional independent journalist, James Ricketson, was convicted of espionage in Cambodia and sentenced to 6 years in prison, for allegedly using his film-making as a pretext to collect information that would harm national security. He served 15 months before receiving a King's pardon and being deported back to Australia."
In a recent Guardian article, "Ricketson said he was concerned that Assange’s “polarising” position among journalists as well as the public at large would mean he is “forgotten”.
“A lot of well-informed people I know hate Julian Assange for reasons of character, and what I think is that I have no idea about his character and nor do I think it is important,” he said.
“If you went through the upper echelons of society in business and politics and journalism you’d find a lot of arseholes and narcissists but I don’t think that should matter. We are all members of the fourth estate and I think it’s an attack on everybody in the fourth estate to prosecute Julian as is happening.
“My feeling is that unless there’s a huge concerted effort, a public outcry, that Julian Assange will spend 10 months in jail and then be extradited it’ll be one of those news items that will pop up every now and again but that Julian will be forgotten, and I don’t think he should be forgotten.”
(My bold)
they're not in Sweden though.
Fifteen years ago, hounds like you were going after Peter Ellis. The case against him was equally convincing.
https://morrisseybreen.blogspot.com/2018/01/post-of-year-award-entry-9-david-bisman.html
Now that the U.S has placed its order for Assange to face espionage charges it will be upto a jury of 12 U.S citizens to decide whether Assange is a Jounalist or not. That's really the crux of the case because journalists can't be charged with espionage for publishing embarrassing shit about a government ie extra judicially murdering civilians and journalists.
Weren't giraffes allegedly involved in the Ellis case?
'Giraffes' is a bit of a stretch, but Julian was involved.
https://www.peterellis.org.nz/2004/2004-0200_NZSkeptics_Julian.htm
1. Boris Johnson becomes Prime Minister in June, and government continues until 2022.
2. Brexit with No Deal goes ahead. Immediate trade, pharmaceutical, and grocery supply crisis with trucks at both borders for miles. Brexit together with US-China trade war tips the OECD countries into economic stagnation.
3. Prime Minister Johnson announces massive and deep deregulation of the British economy to outcompete the EU. Economic growth crashes and unemployment goes from 4% to 7% inside a year.
4. Scotland votes to join the EU independently.
5. Wales protests mount, also seeking a referendum to join the EU.
6. Decline in the City of London as a financial centre compared to Frankfurt, Berlin, and Paris.
7. Queen dies by 2022. No one knows what happened to the country.
8. By 2022, India overtakes UK in economic size.
9. The UK vagabond tells stories to his other UK vagabond friends about how much money they used to make before BREXIT 😂😂😂
Macabre thought. Queen goes onto Lazarus-type support to give breathing time for damaged UK to gather itself together and decide to become monarchy again, as the Barons have gutted the country.
(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JfEgdCu5RSM
Noelle McCarthy on for Kim this morning. I hate her inflected speech, almost theatrical. She is on RadioNZ more and more and though she has slightly improved over the years, I still want to hear NZs and just because Kim was an immigrant, it doesn't mean that she should be followed by another.
And Mora, does anyone else feel that Sunday mornings are getting more into celebrities and light stuff that would interest and amuse those who have everything. Wallace was both grounded and reaching for ideas, Mora doesn't measure up.
Thank goodness, someone else has the same aversion to Noelle and Jim. I have stopped listening to Nat radio at the weekends. Jim likes showing off his (supposed) intellectual superiority and Noelle's voice just grates on my ears. Anything Jim doesn't want to talk about, he says we will talk about that later or something similar, but seldom does. What a pair of (add your own expletive).
I listened to her, in horrified fascination, as she interviewed Vincent O'Malley about the New Zealand Wars—her questions were crass and ignorant—and then later, as she demonstrated her staggering complacency about Gaza. I'm preparing a critique which hopefully I'll put up tomorrow, but here's a couple of things I've written about her a few years back….
https://morrisseybreen.blogspot.com/2017/12/possibly-most-repellent-panel-pre-show.html
https://morrisseybreen.blogspot.com/2018/01/hur-hur-hur-hur-hur-vanessa-redgraves.html
https://morrisseybreen.blogspot.com/2018/01/listen-to-john-key-he-makes-good.html
The Trump Trip
It fascinates me that a war mongering, liar, narcissist, child abusing leader of a Nation should be invited to the Uk.
Trump, he who separates little children from their parents, never to be found again, will be fondled by the Aristocracy of England. An Aristocracy that since the year 1100 AD has built up a dreadfully shameful and massive taste for slavery and poverty within the UK.
A Taste it maintains until today, by denying equality, opportunity and a secure future to all the Citizens of the United Kingdom.
Mrs Teresa May thought she had only one thing to do as an English Prime Minister. She had only to continue the weird Ways of Elizabeth 1, and the weird ways of Margaret Thatcher and the weird ways of the Lords and everything would be her Triumph.
The Prize she would get and clutch – was the opportunity to fondle Donald Ridiculous Trump. She couldn’t 't wait.
Neither Mrs May or Mr Trump have ever done anything for their workers or the poor or the Ill. They have done only for the few. Never for the Many.
They never wanted to. The two of them make you utterly Sick !
Thanks ever so much for publishing this particular bullying story Stuff and leaving it open for comments. This shit is way too common, and any input helps those who are struggling with this kind of shite so very much.
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/education/112908270/student-who-complained-about-bullying-told-to-stay-home-for-safety
At the bullying meeting last week the principal told me that bullying had been an issue in every school he had worked at…. made me wonder if he was part of the problem. Spinning the zero bullying tolerance is just lip service to keep parents quiet.
Cinny. Barely a day goes by without me expressing relief that my children's schooldays are well and truly over. The bullying thing was bad enough in the days before 24/7 social media exposure, so much worse nowadays when the bullies follow you home.
Reading those comments below the Stuff article I am inclined to agree with those suggesting face to face contact with the parents/caregivers of the bullies. AND record/film these discussions. From experience it may turn out that the parents of the bullies are at their wits' end and their offspring are terrorising their own family as well. They may be desperate for help with dealing with their child's bullying behaviour, and being confronted by their child's victim's parents might just be the catalyst to effect change.
The effects of being bullied at school can be long lasting and can lead to the bullied becoming the bully later on. And so the cycle continues. No wonder our youth suicide and self harm rates are so high.
Back in the day we were told….'sticks and stones…' and to just walk away from confrontation, and these strategies do have a place and can be effective. But there are some perpetrators that simply can't pass up the opportunity to have a go at an individual they feel is weak or on the margins already. When I read that bullied kids are still being advised to leave the school my heart just about breaks. Same shit. Different day. Nothing changes.
With your daughter Cinny….it is down to you and the rest of the whanau to always be there for her so that whatever else in going on in her life (and I do understand that school and her mates are more important than anything else at times) she knows where she really lives and where she is safe.
This too shall pass. All the very best.
Thanks for the link Cinny.
It is appalling almost beyond comprehension. In a roundabout way the principle is telling the victim she has to take some of the blame. What for? Existing? And to send her home for 5 days (ostensibly for her safety) and not do likewise to the perpetrators only shows they don't have a clue how to handle the problem.
As you know I went through an adult version of this dilemma and it went on, on and off, for years. The authorities did the same thing to me and I was left feeling like I was the one who was to blame for my predicament.
It's time all teachers – and principles in particular – attend classes/seminars and are properly trained in handling bullying and other similar behaviours within the school precincts and nearby surroundings.
This is an example of today's principal under BoTs. These often are people who lead well ordered lives in which they are able to organise everything to their own satisfaction.
Principals under the control of BoTs and who have been chosen by them? I think that's the case, are their pawns and must think about what the Board thinks first and foremost. (I noted that the Principal at the school you are dealing with Cinny wanted to ensure that further communication was directly to him.)
In this era of tick-boxing and targets, there isn't too much room for latitude and working with problems. Having a clean desk and arena is what is noticed. Brush things to the side – it's SEP is a very strong inclination. Too much caring and experimenting is likely to backfire on the Principal.
Note the attempts of one school to use a locked quiet room to place a belligerent or very stressed child with mental difficulties until they were manageable, and to allow those affected to get on with their expected teaching and learning. It was thumbs down for the school and the Principal.
How can people carry out their required work in these circumstances? I have heard that techniques for handling bullying have been available for some time and why BoTs can't be instructed to learn about them and apply them as best practice , along with Principals and Teachers, I can't imagine.
But I believe that this is down to the NZ government dropping the right to ensure that matters are properly handled in an informed and sensible and reasonable fashion under Tomorrow's Schools? and local decision-making. That has left the country's children to the reckons of elected people who have projected self-confidence, status and correctness to other parents, which is of limited value to estimating their knowledge, skills relating to education and biases.
"Spinning the zero bullying tolerance is just lip service to keep parents quiet."
I'll bet that's part of it plus I wouldn't mind betting that if the victim retaliates then they'd get in as much trouble, if not more, as the bully
if the victim retaliates then they'd get in as much trouble, if not more, as the bully
Hmm…was a time, in an all boys school, when the victim fighting back and beating the living daylights out of the perpetrator was cause for congratulations and celebrations. One of the comments on the article Cinny posted says as much.
Shakes head in despair.
Sounds like in this environment those that want to follow the rules are punished more than those that don't, I feel bad for the kids in this situation
When I heard, I was horrified, and fully expected the victim who finally snapped to be in a wealth of trouble. By all accounts, (and the school was warned a meltdown was imminent due to constant harassment from the bully) it required more than two adults to part the pair. The family of the victim who finally snapped were not even informed of the massive fight and when they did speak with the DP were congratulated on having a son who was so physically strong. They (the school teachers) had no idea, as this kid was a nerdy academic who eschewed physical sports. The teachers assumed he was a weak wimp….just like the bully did.
All very Lord of the Flies….do they still read that?
I wouldn't mind betting that if the victim retaliates then they'd get in as much trouble, if not more, as the bully.
You're dead right there PR.
Maybe have a chat with the Principal and talk to him about 'sexual harassment' rathen then bullying.
Calling a girl a 'effn 4 letterword' because she does not want to date is sexual harassment text book. Yes, it falls under bullying, but maybe that is a bit more poignant.
But yes, of course, let the harassers go to school and tell the victim to stay home and forgo education, its the easier and cheaper thing to do.
And maybe tell the Principal if bullying is an issue at every school he worked then maybe rather then being a solution to the problem he is part of the problem?
Cheers for the comments, input is very much appreciated.
At the meeting when I mentioned it was sexual harrassment, he said that the term 'fckn slut' was common and part of the online gaming culture, just the way of the world apparently.
What's even more messed up, did some online research last night and apparently if a girl rejects a boys sexual advances it's part of the bro code to call her a fkn slut. Far out, that broke my heart that some think like that, but it explains why things are like that are for her.
Last night Sab, Miss 14 got a message from another boy at school via social media, who was telling her she must want to fck this guy and that guy, she was real upset. Showed me on her computer, asked her if she wanted me to reply, which she did, so I gave him a taste of how it feels, then we blocked him. Probably shouldn't have, but am so over it.
Last time I trolled a boy who was harrassing her online, he left her alone at school and continues to do so, that was months ago. It's immature of me go down the small dick, stop wanking and get a life road, but it worked, and that's just as messed up.
Sheez I'm so glad she's honest with me and relieved I've never gotten her a cellphone.
Just cause a girl is pretty dosen't mean she is a free for all that wants to have sex with everything.
Thanks media etc for portraying pretty females as easy for the men, well done for ruining lives with that narrative.
Going to the police this week, I'm over it. I'd like the police to come to assembly and give them all a shake up about the consequences of such behaviour. Fingers crossed can make it happen.
Woooooooah time for a cuppa lolz and a calm down moment, am a bit meows.
Cinny, I've tried googling but can't find it. An international study on bullying was in the media a few years ago, that singled out the approach that New Zealand takes towards bullying behaviour in schools. Perhaps someone else will be able to help out.
Not only was NZ one of the highest countries in terms of prevalence, the approach used was considered to be less effective than others. Despite the myriad of bullying programmes in New Zealand, the practical implementation occurring within schools was to impress on the victim their need to acquire "resilience". The harm that was inflicted on victims, was considered almost to be learning opportunities to discover how to overcome obstacles. I don't know if this is the impression you will get from your daughter's school when resolving this situation, but at least you are able to act as advocate for her, and can ensure that any resolution will not place this additional burden on her.
I am a supporter of programmes that address the bad decision making of immature minds at school, and attempt to make those decision makers see how they harm themselves as well as their targets when they act upon their impulses. But they must also ensure, that the targets of these bad decisions are not utilised primarily as teaching opportunities for bullies, and are supported and protected as they should be when in compulsory attendance at school.
All the best to you and your daughter in this situation.
Powerful introduction in lawsuit against Stephan Halper.
https://www.zerohedge.com/s3/files/inline-images/ratfucker.png?itok=WhMwUF9o
https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2019-05-24/ratfuker-and-spy-stefan-halper-sued-cambridge-academic-smeared-flynns-honeypot
Speaking of votes…how would you feel if the area you lived (eg. State) voided the vote you cast in favor of whomever the most popular candidate was? Weird stuff from the land of the free.
https://edition.cnn.com/2019/05/15/politics/maine-popular-vote/index.html
That particular effort is prompted by the way the Electoral College has twice recently gone against the overall national will of the people and delivered the US the two worst presidents in recent history. So it's a matter of the residents of those states choosing to respect the national result over their own local result.
The potentially much worse possibility is the way state legislatures could simply ignore their state's voters and choose whatever electors they want. There's a bunch of states where the Repugs have gerrymandered themselves a solid majority in their state legislatures, even though the state as a whole and the governor is a Democrat. It's a real possibility that the Repug legislatures in those states could overturn the national popular vote, their state's votes and the Electoral College to steal the election and give Dolt45 a second term.
https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2019/05/13/2020-election-contested-donald-trump-226869
Yeah I'm buggered if I can understand how America can call itself a democracy with such an abysmal electoral system. Pelosi is absolutely correct – there has to be an overwhelming victory by the next Democrat Candidate for there to be any overturn of this Repugnant spineless lot.
Australian Election
Labour plus Greens 43.5% 68 seats
Coalition 41.8% 78 seats
Thank goodness for MMP in NZ
So Labs plus Greens won 1.8% more in actual votes. In a country with a population around 20 million plus that is quite a sizable amount. It means the polls were in fact not that far out after all.
So much for the media characterised landslide. 10 seats represents a comfortable majority but not a landslide. Damm those b****y Queensland neanderthals. 🙂
Keepers who go into tigers cages get killed, even though they have been looking after them for years. Tigers don't change their spots, and leopards their stripes! Labour should know by now that Queenslanders have their own idiotsyncracies.
Ann this comment from John of Qld may help your understanding
They use preferential voting so the candidate who gets 50% of the vote wins the seat.
While Labour plus Greens is more than the Coalition there are other right wing parties, who make the Coalition their second pick.
Yeah … but … Two Party Preferred:
ALP ………………………………. 48.4%
Coalition ………………………. 51.6%
Not to mention ……. First Preference:
ALP+Greens …………………………… 43.5%
Coalition+Other Right Parties … 48.7%
Pardoned war criminals would be loyal members of a Prince led Praetorian Guard.
An attorney for Navy SEAL chief Edward "Eddie" Gallagher also represents the Trump Organization, CNN has learned, just days after reports surfaced indicating the President is considering pardoning Gallagher of charges that could constitute war crimes.
Gallagher faces a slew of accusations connected to violations of military law while he was deployed to the Iraqi city of Mosul in 2017, including premeditated murder in the stabbing death of an injured person in Iraq. He has pleaded not guilty.
Trump Organization lawyer Marc Mukasey started working on the case in recent months, according to sources familiar with the situation.
Former NYPD Commissioner Bernard Kerik, a former business partner of Trump ally and former New York Mayor Rudy Giuliani, also is helping with Gallagher's case. Kerik, who once served three years in federal prison for charges including tax fraud and lying to officials, was nominated as homeland security secretary by President George W. Bush but withdrew from consideration due to potential tax violations.
https://edition.cnn.com/2019/05/24/politics/navy-seal-chief-eddie-gallagher-defense-team-trump/index.html
Gotta pay back those Saudi loans.
https://twitter.com/NBCNews/status/1132044504591142914
Lisa Owen talking like David Seymour or Christine Spankin' Rankin. Why?
Checkpoint, RNZ National, 5 p.m., Friday 24 May 2019
Before the news is read, host Lisa Owen gives a quick menu for the upcoming show. She finishes with this:
This is coarse, cheap, and sensationalist rhetoric, the sort of garbage you'd expect to hear spewing from Larry "Lackwit" Williams over on NewsnoreZzzzzzB.
RNZ National continues to decline.
https://morrisseybreen.blogspot.com/2018/01/is-it-possible-national-radio-is.html
https://morrisseybreen.blogspot.com/2018/01/why-is-rnz-national-treating-james.html
I notice you put capitals on certain words that apparently had emphasis put on them. I have noticed that there is a jerky, and often shrill, outrage-seeking, dramatised presentation by Lisa Owen. And fast, slightly breathless, can't wait to tell you the next gossip approach from her. It grates, I expect mature delivery with emphasis put appropriately, not the sort of thing as if from a newbie from a journalism course. And saying mature doesn't mean slow and steady, it means measured and audible, pleasant and listenable, and not dropping the voice to inaudible when giving someone's name or designation, but not shouting either.
I have thought FTTT about having street criers in special colourful outfits, (not bikinis or mankinis) during tourist times, who might call out the latest headlines and coming events in an audible way and that's when Lisa Owen's delivery would be good. They would also be good for street directions, local info, and perhaps a daily limerick to catch the funny bone. Idea? 💡
An excellent analysis, my friend.
Botswana allowing the hunting of elephants.
We are intent on killing every last living thing on
earth.
Elephants themselves appear to know this. Facing excessive poaching and hunting elsewhere in Africa, they have limited their roaming in recent years to Botswana. As Elephants without Borders’ Dr Mike Chase said in 2016:
https://www.thecanary.co/discovery/analysis-discovery/2019/05/23/hunters-are-given-the-green-light-to-kill-elephants-in-their-last-safe-haven-on-earth/
What the F*&#IN' HELL is their country doing near our military bases?
Nice illustration of the problem starts at the 1:10 mark…
I will do everything in my power to prevent a war with Iran.
Bernie Sanders.
https://www.thecanary.co/trending/2019/05/24/bernie-sanders-calls-for-us-to-avoid-absolute-disaster-in-iran-by-opposing-team-trumps-warmongering
Julian Assange
“Truth, ultimately, is all we have”
https://www.thecanary.co/feature/2019/05/24/as-us-seeks-to-crush-media-freedom-we-all-need-to-read-assanges-letter-from-prison
Having a tough time of it here.
The local ED has had a few assaults recently on medical and clinical staff. One I have intimate knowledge of.
A client had used a knife on themselves in a toilet cubicle and the police were called after restraining and cuffing him the police decided to uncuff him against the wishes of mental health crisis team and medical staff. The police intimated that hospital security could take it from here.
When the police left he then assaulted a few members of staff and was threatening people.
The police were called again it took 27 minutes for them to arrive when asked about releasing the client the police replied 'well you have your processes we have ours.'
A senior nurse was offered stress leave. Leave she felt she couldn't take because of the very low staffing levels and a very junior skill mix.
A couple of observations, the security at our hospitals are not up to keeping up with the demands that are created by the public. The police attitude has shifted since events in ChCh.
These assaults are not making it into the public awareness.
I understand there is a law proposed to make it an offence to assault ambulance personnel. Excellent, and extend it to hospital staff too.
Anecdotally, tempers would be frayed because of wait times. This seems to be managed better now, a lot of the tensions come from folk with mental health issues in crisis e.g. shelter issues, meds etc.
That's a tough job. I know of at least a couple of ED staff who take self defense training to keep themselves safe from patients and patient visitors.
In general in security I encountered definite A and B team streaming – some were highly professional and would move into situations, others were just statues who would radio for support if you were lucky – otherwise their best bet at stopping a fight in front of them would be to have a heart attack and collapse on top of one of the fighting parties. Not always a distinction based on pay scale, but often was.
Cheers McF.
The $ seems to discern what does or doesn't happen. The DHB sub contracts to a security company therefore paying the profit for that company's services. So perverse.
Perhaps there is scope for well trained orderlies to perform the security role.
You are so right about A and B stream folk.
The day after ChCh, the security guard on duty had to be reminded that as the hospital was on high alert, the person with a CROSSBOW in the waiting room had to be asked to leave.
The local DHB has told staff to be ready for belt tightening, as budgets…..
What about the DHB telling the ministry there is not enough money in the coffers, increase yr budget.
I'm assuming its part of this bill and its about time:
http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/PA1905/S00046/tougher-sentences-for-inmates-who-attack-corrections-staff.htm
The Protection of First Responders and Prison Officers Bill, currently before Parliament, seeks to impose a mandatory minimum prison sentence of six months for anyone who deliberately injures a first responder or a corrections officer.
“A provision will be added which will ensure that if a corrections officer is assaulted, extra time will be added onto the inmate’s original sentence, rather than being served concurrently” Mr Ball says.
I assume you are not against the principle of the bill extending to health care workers?
I have to ask (not you, PM) where is the union in all this?
“I assume you are not against the principle of the bill extending to health care workers?”
Personally I’d like to see this extended to everyone but yes health care workers absolutely
The police should know that hospital staff aren't just people, they are superhumans, but also vulnerable ones as a result. They should be hanging around and making sure that the hospital is coping not buggering off and leaving them to it.
And as for hospitals having security systems, and police having their separate system that is a cop-out. Hospital systems are so that police aren't always being called out, to relieve them of much of the trivial stuff. Hospitals shouldn't be treated like private/business venues; and even private hospitals should be places that can ask for police attention to help people who are citizens.
The bloody government is not making sure that so called public services are doing their job. They are trying to get the public or some other people to do what the public are expecting to be provided.
This sort of thing makes me wild. Another instance is the poor firefighters are being asked to do ambulance stuff when they volunteer their time, and their employers also, and their health and families are put on the line, because government is so devious and is degrading our country because it wants to suck up and not tax properly the very community that demands the highest service.
Friend of mine is a St. John medic. Her comments, assault is a regular thing. Sexual assault is not uncommon.
https://www.stuff.co.nz/entertainment/113001586/us-holiday-camps-teach-kids-to-become-youtube-stars
This was in reply to a comment greywarshark just posted but has disappeared:
+1. Sam appears to have massive personal issues but it's not the job of the commenters here to counsel him.
His diatribes make the place look ugly to genuine newcomers and I suspect he's doing this forum a lot of damage.
He needs some boundaries.
Sam is not the only one who needs boundaries.
This site works based on robust debate and self-moderation. This means that all who participate here take a good look at their own contributions and their impact and self-regulate and, when necessary, self-moderate.
Sounds like consensus, that's a nice word to throw around but it has fishhooks. We need leadership, some authority in the background. Or doesn't it matter who comes here and says diddlysquat and it takes precious time from our own affairs to try and sort it out.
I can see from the fewer number of careful commenters that some are tired of the blog. I don't see it as a playground. Do you? If you do I might seem like a bully. But I want to keep it so we can talk about how we can get out of a mess of decades high, not just squawk about things we don't like, cos we have developed a highly complex language.
And a highly complex world and I wish it was as simple as birds have, but no. But we can lose it all, unless we really try. Do people care?
Hi Grey, it is my personal view and has nothing to do with consensus as such.
The “authority in the background” are the trustees and SYSOP of TS.
The site is what we make of it, together. We can do with more authors; MickySavage is carrying (too) much of the load IMO.
Because I care, I put time and effort into TS, not nearly as much as MS and Lynn, but we all live busy lives.
As I said to Andre the other day, I’m flexing my Moderator muscles more but I don’t want to come down on people who stray like a ton of bricks.
As with authors, commenters come and go but the ‘readership’ of TS is pretty steady and as far as I can tell, about 90% are returning visitors, so we (authors + commenters) must be doing something right.
Muttonbird I was doing some self restriction there. But this goes beyond Sam; there is too much freedom for multiple comments. An automatic guillotine required after three I thought. Get told to take a break, and the moderator only has to say, that's an equal playing field for all flamers, no aggro – a stop for a day, or week – I am willing for it to be applied to me if I go on like a loony for too long, in a flame war that is. Then the verbally loose can take turns to play in the sandpit, and get cleared out before we need to clean up.
Shaneo doesn't mind greasing if he has to.
"Bunch" is inappropriate, sure
Brian Tamaki may have good bones to be a star. This guy could be Brian with big dark glasses with real gold rims.
https://www.rnz.co.nz/national/programmes/ninetonoon/audio/2018696559/wise-guy-from-the-mafia-to-the-godfather-gianni-russo
From Nine To Noon, 10:06 am on 24 May 2019
Gianni Russo didn't need acting experience for the role he's best known for – Carlo Rizzi, the husband of Connie Corleone, in the iconic 1972 film The Godfather. That's because he began working in organized crime from the tender age of 13 as an errand boy for crime legend Frank Costello.
Julian Assange
Journalism is not espionage
http://norightturn.blogspot.com/2019/05/journalism-is-not-espionage.ht
they will use him to make it so.
the US has been a a totalitarian regime (pretending to be a republic) for some time now, capitalism and being able to buy shit made it affordable for many, but with the arrival of the shart cannon it has been turned into an openly roque totalitarian regime and trump is now the hostage taker of the world. People voted to have shit shook up and the system collapse, well buckle in my friend cause the ride is gonna be rough.
the old saying comes to mind:
go to bed with dogs, wake up with fleas.
in the meantime it appears that there were / are severe flashflooding in
punjab / balochstan
https://www.dawn.com/news/1484407/heavy-rain-hits-parts-of-punjab-kp
https://dailytimes.com.pk/377702/nine-dead-as-rain-flash-floods-hit-balochistan/
and in Oklahoma
https://www.yahoo.com/news/flash-floods-prompt-rescues-oklahoma-172528898.html
the midwest
https://www.wired.com/story/for-the-midwest-epic-flooding-is-the-face-of-climate-change/
Mozambique is devasted
http://webtv.un.org/watch/floods-devastate-mozambique/6015804931001
Iran, where about 90% of the land is apparently under water
https://watchers.news/2019/05/24/flash-floods-submerged-90-percent-of-iran-displaced-500-000-people/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=facebook
http://floodlist.com/
Should the CIA stooge Guaido and his white supremacists grab power, it will be the 68th overthrow of a sovereign government by the United States, most of them democracies. A fire sale of Venezuela's utilities and mineral wealth will surely follow, along with the theft of the country's oil, as outlined by John Bolton.
http://johnpilger.com/articles/the-war-on-venezuela-is-built-on-lies
It's NZ Music Month. Radionz tonight to midnight all NZ music.
Poi E – All about it. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Evx3J-bzNRQ
https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/entertainment/2016/07/poi-e-it-brought-a-community-together.html
https://www.paroles-musique.com/eng/Patea_Maori_Club-Poi_E-lyrics,p07201396
♪ Poi E ♪ official lyrics
(intro – solo a cappella: chanted by lead female kaea.)
Te poi!
patua taku poi patua kia rite
pa para patua taku poi e!
e rere ra e taku poi poro-titi
ti-taha-taha ra whaka-raru-raru e
poro-taka taka ra poro hurihuri mai
rite tonu ki te ti-wai-waka e
Ka pare pare ra pī-o-o-i-o-i a
whaka-heke-heke e ki a kori kori e
piki whaka-runga ra ma mui-nga mai a
taku poi poro-titi taku poi e
***chorus***
poi e whaka-tata mai
poi e kaua he rerekē
poi e kia piri mai ki au
poi e-e awhi mai ra
poi e tāpeka tia mai
poi e o taua aroha
poi e pai here tia ra
poi… taku poi e!
Repeat solo a cappella: chanted by lead female kaea.
Patua taku poi patua kia rite
pa para patua taku poi e!
Verse & chorus repeated again, same sequence.
Instrumental break, usually poi percussion.
Then key change: repeat chorus on key change.
At end of song:
poi… taku poi e! 4 times
Then everyone chants at song's end:
rere atu taku poi ti ta' taha ra
whakarunga whaka raro taku poi e!
The War against Dissent continues
Hilla Dayan discusses the right-wing Zionist group Im Tirtzu, and the scare campaign against leftist and progressive professors going on in Israel…
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UAg0c1VKbls
Glad to hear next census we the irreligious will be in the majority. Versus the politicisation of the religious for the Right in America. With b.a.s in my family I was a little alerted about that. But what do we make of Kiwiblog having 4 times the comments of demo-cratic NZ, which is really the only one?
I think if we understood ourselves — the advantage the Scandies and Holland have over us — we'd all come out onto the streets for the poor, sick, weak and outcasts. Poisons everything not doing that.