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Open mike 25/07/2019

Written By: - Date published: 7:00 am, July 25th, 2019 - 96 comments
Categories: open mike - Tags:

Open mike is your post.

For announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose.

The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the Policy).

Step up to the mike …

96 comments on “Open mike 25/07/2019 ”

  1. Robert Guyton 1

    • marty mars 1.1

      So amazing. Did mindfulness last night looking at the photos below – so many layers of beauty out there and in there.

      https://www.mnn.com/earth-matters/animals/blogs/macro-photographs-highlight-intricate-beauty-butterfly-wings?

      • Robert Guyton 1.1.1

        Oh my goodness!!

      • ianmac 1.1.2

        Those butterflies are incredible artists! Texture, colour and balance. And to think that the human race is blundering around and destroying so much.

      • vto 1.1.3

        Brilliant. Supports the truth that the truth is found as easily within a single atom as it is within the entire universe.

        • One Two 1.1.3.1

          truth supports truth

          easily

          single atom

          entire universe

          Are you able to explain?

          • Incognito 1.1.3.1.1

            A kōan cannot be explained; it has to be experienced by the individual. A crude analogy is trying to explain a joke to someone who does not get it.

            • vto 1.1.3.1.1.1

              Well put thanks Incognito – was wanting to respond something along those lines but the brain cells weren't up to the connections this morning …

              • Robert Guyton

                Really? I didn't even think your comment was obscure, vto; quite prosaic and pithy in fact. It interests me, the various ways people "hear" what others have said. I mean no criticism of you, One Two; this happens all the time in the council I sit on and sometimes I just can't fathom the wide variance of meaning taken, or not taken, from seemingly simple statements.

                • One Two

                  Whenever I read the word truth…I am usually intrigued to understand more about the use…hence the request for explanation

                  Council sessions have the benefit of sight and sound, Robert…and even with sensory advantage … well…you've signalled what can eventuate…

                  I'd have preferred to read what else vto had in response to my query…

                • Dennis Frank

                  I think I know why this stuff happens (but am probably kidding myself). All meaning is relative to context. That's just Einstein's relativity principle generalised (in physics, measurements are relative to the user's frame of reference, so I generalised measurements into meaning, then jumped it outside of physics as a general principle).

                  And of course in the psyche of the individual, reality is socially constructed as well as learnt from experience. So our right-brain hemisphere relates info to prior learning to contextualise it. Since we all have a different learning trajectory, different unique natures, and emanate from different social niches, we all interpret the info somewhat differently. That's how human nature works.

                  To get onto the same page, we must transcend the idiosyncratic take we make from the info. There's a discipline mentally imposed to simulate such objectivity – some are good at that, others not. If we feel the necessity, we discuss the info to form common ground…

  2. marty mars 2

    RIP Rutger Hauer

    “I’ve seen things you people wouldn’t believe. Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion. I watched C-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhäuser Gate. All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain. Time to die.”

    https://www.theguardian.com/film/2019/jul/24/rutger-hauer-an-icily-elegant-presence-with-a-touch-of-self-aware-drollery

  3. Rosemary McDonald 3

    Brief mention on Natrad this morning about an issue that was raised here about a week ago. https://thestandard.org.nz/labour-to-repeal-ban-on-family-caregivers-seeking-justice/#comment-1636088

    The Government has got the numbers wrong (again!!!) and has not allocated enough funding to honour its promise to end discrimination against family carers.

    Another brilliant headline for the Coalition that fades under the most superficial of inspections.

    No doubt this will go the way of Kiwibuild and it will be back to the drawing board.

    Despite the fact that ALL the relevant information and data are right there and available.

    And to be honest, it may not cost that much more. Furthermore…

    In the event that the Tribunal’s decision were to encourage others in need to apply for their support entitlements, then while this may be fiscally expensive, this reflects neither a change in the policy framework nor the Tribunal’s decision but a reduction in the failure of delivery coverage within the framework.

    https://www.eastonbh.ac.nz/2008/10/evidence-to-the-human-rights-review-tribunal/

    There is absolutely excuse for yet another bunch of politicians to run around like headless chickens trying to work this out, and frame a narrative to justify the expense.

    This work has already been done.

    Just get on with it.

    • Rosemary McDonald 3.1

      Piece on Natrad…

      https://www.rnz.co.nz/audio/player?audio_id=2018705686

      Moves boost the number of family carers paid to look after disabled relatives could be kneecapped by a funding shortfall. From next year the government plans to allow partners and spouses of a disabled adult and parents caring for a disabled child under the age of 18 to claim funded family care. But RNZs analysis shows there won't be enough money to properly pay the 600 new families that are expected to join the scheme

      Whoops

      • alwyn 3.1.1

        They don't really care Rosemary. As with so many of their stories they get a great big headline about how caring they are, and how terrible National were supposed to have been, and then they just forget about it.

        The MSM may give a tiny little mention to it but they certainly aren't going to give it anything like the original splash in the news.

        Business as usual for the CoL. All hat and no cattle as a Texan might say.

        • Rosemary McDonald 3.1.1.1

          Correction there alwyn, as bad a National were.

          And Labour before them.

          SSDD

          • Molly 3.1.1.1.1

            Not good to hear, Rosemary.

            I was hoping your reserved optimism at the initial news would be rewarded.

  4. johnm 4

    The social evil of the Rentier capitalist: the modern cult of landlordism:

    Governments have built a heaven for landlords and a hell for tenants. It’s time to change the system. ( Where is a CGT!? with some bite? 60%)

    By George Monbiot, published in the Guardian 17th July 2019

    I have a friend who works almost every waking hour, mainly to pay the rent. Her landlord lives on a beach, 4000 miles away. He seldom responds to her requests, and grudgingly pays for the minimum of maintenance. But every so often, he writes to inform her that he is raising the rent. He does not have to work, because she and other tenants work on his behalf. He is able to live the life of his choice, because they give their time to him. As there is an absolute shortage of accessible housing, they have no choice but to pay his exorbitant fees.

    Rents charged at such rates – far beyond the costs of capital and maintenance – are, in these circumstances, a form of private taxation, levied by the rich on the poor. The penalty for failing to pay this tax is arguably greater than the penalty for failing to pay taxes owed to the state: eviction and homelessness. People say “I work for Tesco” or “I work for Deliveroo”, but the reality for many is that they work for their landlord. While the average mortgaged household spends 12% of its income on housing, the average renting household spends 36%. I have met plenty of people who hand over 50% or more. https://www.monbiot.com/2019/07/19/private-taxation/

  5. Morrissey 5

    "Don't let them intimidate you."

  6. ObseRver Tokoroa 6

    The Guffaw

    The Right, both in Gods own mess in New Zealand and Australia, and in the United Kingdom, has been given the means to crush the people who do the work – in town and in the slums and in the farms.

    The Obscene laughter around every Right Oval Table – is full of clotted Laughter of how the slaves work like niggers, with scarcely any money or food – fot the benefit of the Monarchy, The House of Lords, the Corrupts of Bankers and spoilt children of the Posh.

    The meanest of mean persons is the make up of the Blighted Kingdom. The Filthiest Nation on the Planet.

    • vto 6.1

      Correct. Is why so many our ancestors fled those horrid lands as refugees.

      Fled.

      Escaped.

  7. Kay 7

    The battle is finally over and it looks like from October 1 I will be paying full price to continue taking the same brand of medication I've been taking for over 20 years that keeps me alive. The so called 'application for special circumstances funding' (which even Pharmac strongly hinted I apply for in correspondence with them) is actually a completely rigged system in their favour where they pretty much decline almost all the applications, even the clinically valid ones submitted by specialists. To the point where said Specialists aren't even bothering to write the applications because they know they'll be declined.

    On the positive side- for once I have something nice to say about a huge Big Pharma company: they could've quite easily pulled this brand out of NZ after it was delisted, as happens frequently, but they haven't, so at least it's still accessible to the many of us who need to stay on it. And I've learned just how pissed off a lot of medical specialists are with the way Pharmac are behaving.

    It's a huge chunk out of my food budget but I'm sure all the politicians out there who refuse to increase the Pharmac budget and increase disability benefits will be extremley pleased at the sacrifices a lot of us will be making (and the many who already are- we're not the first this is happened to and won't be the last) to use what little money we have to save the hard working tax payers massive hospital bills. /sarc

    • Rosemary McDonald 7.1

      I'm sure all the politicians out there who refuse to increase the Pharmac budget and increase disability benefits will be extremely pleased at the sacrifices a lot of us will be making …

      My thinking is that they have ascribed to the 'what doesn't kill them makes them stronger' philosophy. Ipso facto Kay, they are actually doing you a favour. /sarc

  8. Adrian Thornton 9

    Mueller's Seven-Hour Testimony Changed Nothing…

    • Sabine 9.1

      i don't think it was to change something……

      however i liked his answer as to 'can a president charged for crimes once his tenure has ended', Mr. Mueller "Yes". And i guess that is what the orange shitgibbon takes offense to. 🙂

      • Adrian Thornton 9.1.1

        " i don't think it was to change something " I am pretty sure it was to change something, it was conducted to somehow bring impeachment against Trump, something that will never happen, and of course keep fanning the fires of the Russiagate conspiracy, which needs constant fanning because it has been exposed as being such a load of bullshit that now only the most extreme believers still push it.

        Couple of those extremists still lurk around on this site I believe.

        • Andre 9.1.1.1

          Still pushing your Repug talking points?

          • Sam 9.1.1.1.1

            Yknow what's more annoying than people who speak in statistics? It's people who speak in academic talk. It's amazing how people can construct such technically sound and pretty looking comments, Y'know with links and quotes and grammar and shit, and be totally and utterly wrong. It's fucken amazing.

          • Adrian Thornton 9.1.1.1.2

            No just pushing the facts, what you are pushing is a free ride for Trump to the Whitehouse in 2020.

            Also you might want to keep in mind you are in effect being used as a FBI mouthpiece right now.

          • Professor Longhair 9.1.1.1.3

            ????

            • Andre 9.1.1.1.3.1

              Adrian's comments about "Russiagate conspiracy" could have come straight from the likes of Louie Gohmert or Devin Nunes or any other Drumpfkin desperate to deflect from the huge amount of evidence that Russia did indeed indulge in election fuckery to benefit the Dork from New York, and that the loofah-faced shitgibbon's campaign eagerly welcomed that fuckery and openly encouraged more of it.

              That Mueller's team didn't feel they found enough evidence to establish a chargeable conspiracy is down to extreme prosecutorial caution. Plus successful obstruction, incompetence, and sheer dumb luck on the part of the campaign members involved.

              • Poission

                Well Mueller previous statements to the house said there was evidence of WMD in Iraq and the supply to terrorists was a clear and present danger.

                • McFlock

                  Well Mueller previous statements to the house said there was evidence of WMD in Iraq and the supply to terrorists was a clear and present danger.

                  That's not actually what Mueller said, in the clip, though. He said that Powell had presented evidence Iraq had failed to disarm its WMD (he had. Turned out to be faked). He then said the FBI's concern was WMD going to terrorists from Iraq. Nor did he say "clear and present danger" (thanks, Tom fucking Clancy).

                  Iraqi WMD wasn't his problem. After 911, US domestic terrorists getting WMD was his problem.

                  • Poission

                    So he spread false news on WMD (he had the same access to information that powell had)

                    Chief Judge Learned Hand … interpreted the [clear and present danger] phrase as follows: 'In each case, [courts] must ask whether the gravity of the "evil", discounted by its improbability, justifies such invasion of free speech as is necessary to avoid the danger.' We adopt this statement of the rule. As articulated by Chief Judge Hand, it is as succinct and inclusive as any other we might devise at this time. It takes into consideration those factors which we deem relevant, and relates their significances. More we cannot expect from words.

                    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clear_and_present_danger

                    • McFlock

                      I know the term "clear and present danger". I also know when it became popular outside of polsci or cspan conferences.

                      He did not spread false news on WMD. He said that someone in another job presented evidence to do with their job. His job was to figure out how those claims impacted on his patch, not second-guess the intelligence agencies that deal with other nations.

                    • Sam

                      Links! We need more links for those assertions! the goal posts! they are shifting! Quick some one find a quote! the tone of the debate is falling! the standard faces legal dilemmas. LMFAO!!!

                    • McFlock

                      Sambam, the link is in the comment of 2:48pm. That's Mueller saying pretty much what I put. He did not, in that link, present any evidence or claims of the existence of WMDs, he said that his interest was in regards to terrorists getting them.

                    • Sam

                      I am truely, sorry, Mc, Flock 😄

                      But I do not drink kool aid. LMFAO

                    • McFlock

                      Yeah, what he actually said in the clip vs what was said he said ain't koolaid.

                    • Sam

                      Evil is subjective. The concept of evil by George Bush and Saddam's standards has no value to your story or narrative.

                    • McFlock

                      Your comment has no relevance to the preceding discussion.

                    • Sam

                      Its not even necessary to meet your standards of relevance when you can't even articulate with as much precision as your extremely long arch that Russia did it. And now the whole backlash just goes poof. LMFAO

                    • McFlock

                      If you read the Mueller report, you didn't understand it.

                    • Sam

                      Yoire still drinking your own kool aid. LMFAO

                    • McFlock

                      Serious question: if you won't be persuaded by evidence or argument, is there any conceivable way you could discover that one of your many opinions is wrong?

                    • Sam

                      Thats just you looking for the easy way out in an attempt to appeal to authority and try and have me banned. You woke de woke Dee's are just so predictable. Y'know if you pile up all of Trumps Bodies it wouldn't even come close to either Saddam's, Bush or Obamas body count yet your backlash is far more precise for Trump and I'm just not going to sip from your kool aid.

                    • McFlock

                      You really do spend more time responding to your own delusions than you do to anything anyone else has written.

                    • Sam

                      That doesn't work against Trumo since he's utilizing zero percent or even negative interest rates. Your backlash would not be an advantage. Please don't take yourself to seriously.

                    • …evidence or argument…

                      Don't come round 'ere with yer evidence and argument, they're no match for Sam's sneers about 'woke' and 'kool aid.'

                    • solkta

                      I think Sam does quite well, for an eight year old.

                    • In Vino

                      Agree, PM. I wonder if SAM is an acronym… Smart Ass Mystifier?

                • Andre

                  Here's a piece discussing whether Mueller's involvement in the Iraq WMD bullshit discredits his Russia investigation (spoiler: it doesn't).

                  At the time he was FBI Director, which is domestic and has very limited overlap with any foreign operations which fall under CIA. the military and other agencies. He made it clear in that cherry-picked bit of his remarks he was relying on what was given to him by those other sources. For context, here's the prepared text of his testimony.

                  Finally, who popularised this particular bit of cherry-picked background and why? Interesting question

              • Morrissey

                Poor Adrian—you’ve just been savaged by a dead sheep.

        • Gabby 9.1.1.2

          You know, you can love Mother Russia and recognise the utter corruption of its rulers now ady. Nobody's going to put polonium in your samovar, probably.

          • Adrian Thornton 9.1.1.2.1

            Fuck off, I know critical thinking doesn’t come naturally to you Ruaaiagaters, but at least try and pretend.

          • Professor Longhair 9.1.1.2.2

            Pointing out the corruption and absurdity of the Democrat "leadership" is in no way to endorse "Mother Russia" or Donald Trump and his wacky gang.

            • joe90 9.1.1.2.2.1

              An actual Russian notes the comparison.

              • Adrian Thornton

                " In the waning days of Russian democracy" exactly when was that?

                • joe90

                  When Putin fitted himself up as prime minister.

                  • Adrian Thornton

                    Really?, that is exactly not what historical fact say, but then is seems that facts are a mystery to you, unless they fit with your view of the world vis a vie The Gaurdian, TWP etc.

              • Morrissey

                But the Democrats are doing it to impress voters…

                Now there's a joke. If the Democrats cared about those deplorable voters, why did the corrupt and incompetent DNC, led by that masterly strategist and top thinker Debbie Wasserman Schultz, conspire in 2016 to shut out the most popular political candidate in the country and elect someone as toxic as this creature?

                https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mlz3-OzcExI

                • Andre

                  How the hell did "the most popular candidate in the country" lose to the toxic creature by more than 3.6 million freely cast votes (that's losing by more than 12%)? Amongst the small segment of the population self-selected to be politically closest to his views? Maybe he wasn't quite so popular after all?

  9. Herodotus 10

    So not only are the pay increase being delayed now schools will have to source out of their operating budget to fund some of the increases. Pity that this will result in students missing out.

    Hipkins "If there was a way to speed up the process, I'd make it happen. "As if Novopay and our bungling minister (and a Labour one at that 🤬) didn't realise that many of the changes that were agreed to were not signaled during the negotiations ?

    "Novopay said teachers would have to wait until mid-September to receive their pay rises, prompting NZEI to file legal action for compliance and penalties."

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/education/114491866/schools-stung-by-teacher-pay-shock

    • Sabine 10.1

      time to fire Novopay?

      • alwyn 10.1.1

        Fire the person responsible perhaps?

        Bye, bye Mr Hipkins. Why not just admit that, like so many actions of this Government they never allowed for the cost of their promises and they have simply fallen into the great big financial black hole that Stephen Joyce warned us about.

      • Herodotus 10.1.2

        Where was our leader in Ed ? Did he not inquire to those within the ministry and/or Novopay as to their ability to enact in a timely manner changes in pay rates, when the negotiations were in progress ?

        The "talks" were going on for over a year, remember teachers received a NIL pay rise from the time the last agreement lapsed and this one being implemented as of July 19.

        He is paid the big bucks to lead. Leadership is not JUST being important enough to be seen on the TV news.

        • In Vino 10.1.2.1

          All true, but I discussed the matter with an experienced finance lady in my school today, and she agreed with me that all previous salary providers were able to efficiently introduce new pay rises in time – because they had plenty of people to rise to the occasion and key it all in.

          Some IT moron convinced some moronic Govt that Novopay with far fewer people (big savings in salaries, but more unemployment?) could do the same job.

          A lie, of course, as current situation shows.

          Teacher unions, if there were any justice, should be able to take legal action against the guilty parties.

          But we know that there will be no justice..

          Asking schools to bear the burden temporarily is an act of bad faith that will be admired by neither teachers nor Boards of Trustees.

          • Herodotus 10.1.2.1.1

            The same is at many aged care facilities (those that are are profit driven vrs those that are "charities" ) as there is no drive for profit and on the face of it have greater staff nos and a more friendly environment.

            Not sure why the govt is protecting Novapay (Nats were the same) Wonder if there will be some profit ramifications for the provider for not delivering on what they are contracted to deliver 🤭. How we are being expected to accept poor delivery

            Many "bosses" appear to have the 1st call for action to reduce staff. All those MBA's and they address staff !!

          • McFlock 10.1.2.1.2

            Novopay was a basic 9-5 payroll system hacked into a multiuser schools payroll format, overseen by incompetent ministers at the client end. Every time something new is done with it, there will be a new problem come up because none of its original purpose involved an education-system level of diversity in roles, FTE time allocations, allowances, pay grades, schedules or anything else.

            Trouble is that the nats fully committed so that just reactivating the old system wasn't an option. Lots of money asnd would probably take longer to fix than Novopay itself – it's what happens when you burn business relationships in favour of a competitor, and then it falls through.

            Pisser was the Wellington Board of Education did exactly the same thing in 1993 when computerising their regional payroll system and the ensuing clusterfuck. Literally a textbook example on how not to implement a new computer system. Now the example is novopay lol.

  10. Morrissey 11

    More crazy conspiracy theory….

    This classic dates back to February, but it's still hilarious.

  11. greywarshark 12

    Matthew Parris from UK on Johnson – Waste-no-time-wasting-Cabinet – PM.

    “Dominic Raab has been made Foreign Secretary, Raab the man who put Raab into rabies basically, he’s a really rabid Brexiteer. He’s a clever man, but it’s not the sort of steady hand you would expect.”

    This was a revenge re-shuffle, Parris says.

    “He has kicked in the shins anyone who has ever kicked him in the shins and installed a whole lot of people who are going to be in favour of crashing out without a deal on the 31st of October if we have to do it.

    • McFlock 12.1

      lol "revenge re-shuffle".

      The old Yes Minister line about the PM's personal motto: "In defeat, malice. In victory, revenge!"

    • Dennis Frank 12.2

      Claire Trevett, from just in front of the pay-wall: "Johnson had once declared his chances of becoming Prime Minister "are about as good as the chances of finding Elvis on Mars, or my being reincarnated as an olive"."

      Now that it has just happened, could be the next Mars lander will get a re-program, eh? I wonder if he will change his surname to Trump now. Johnson is so boring, really. The Don will be agonising over whether to despatch a hairdresser to Downing St, or send a case of brylcreem over, or both.

      • Andre 12.2.1

        He'll send over some of that off-colour spray-tan and some cut-in-half ping-pong balls to put over his eyes when he sprays it on.

    • ianmac 12.3

      Trump has surrounded himself by Yes men and Women who seem to be incompetent. Has Johnson done the same?

      • Anne 12.3.1

        Peas in a pod ianmac. One is a Yank and the other is a Pom and they play their games in a slightly different way.

        Between the two of them they should have no problem starting another war and thus keep the peasants’ minds away from the gross incompetence of their respective administrations.

  12. Observer Tokoroa 13

    Peas in a Pod Anne

    Well Spoken Anne. The two septic PlayBoys Mr Donald and Mr Boris, have united in the sacred bonds of war mongering. and each have announced that their respective Nations are about to be the Greatest Country ever to have been Conceived, Suckled and strewn on Planet Earth.

    They are both relatively unpopulated Nations given their land mass. England 60 millions. United States 308 millions.

    The Union of Europe (EU) – has 511 Millions.

    Mr Boris, a studied comedian, has already snubbed his nose at Europe and is going to fight EU into oblivion. – Using his Eccentric adoring 60 Million nicompoops. Capitan Boris, after Sex with the unbeloved– will put his sea boots on soonest. I think he may have kept Mrs Thatcher's under arm tuft of hair – as a Clutch.

    The Germans, The French, They of the Guillotine The Nordics, The Commonwealth, The Asians, The Indians – The Africans, Pakistans and all the other Stans – rather think the English are quaint. Mr Boris is quite like an inedible fish that wriggles unexpectedly.

    England – be grateful for what you get. After all, you asked for it.

  13. Eco maori 14

    Kia ora Newshub.

    Its not good that people who get a colonoscopy privately are going to live and the lower classes who can't afford the procedure will die is that a 2 class system or what.

    Awesome te Rangiti are not drinking as much as the last generation it actually give Eco Maori a sore face I say no more.

    Thanks to our government for increasing kindergarten teachers pay parity with their counterparts in primary and secondary schools teaches te mokopuna are very important to Eco Maori

    Its is climate change that is causing the heat wave over Europe and America at the minute but people like ——— are sceptical about our nuclear moments for our generation. HUMAN caused climate change is poking us in thee EYES .

    trump what about the institutional racism towards the African American and Hispanic tangata you muppet. Innocent people will die because of your policies .All so I know for a fact that not all police officers are honest and honorable people hence innocent people are going to die try putting yourself in their shoes

    Ka kite ano

  14. Eco maori 15

    Ka pai for Jacinda and her tangata whenua Mps for brokering a solution to the Ihumatau whenua issue in Auckland awesome. Thanks to Henare a Willy for going to Auckland to talk to the tangata about the issue they have with that whenua let's hope te tangata behave honorable to you.

    Its awesome that the whenua is being returned to Maori and they are going to build a education center up there by the old telescope is it to many people in my whare I missed the story + Eco Maori needs to learn Te reo.

    Ka kite ano

  15. Eco maori 16

    Its Its awesome to see the next generation of tangata whenua uniteing to fix the wrongs that have been served up to Maori

    Ka kite ano

  16. Eco maori 17

    Some Eco Maori music for the minute

    Thanks for the MANA

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