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Open mike 26/02/2019

Written By: - Date published: 7:00 am, February 26th, 2019 - 171 comments
Categories: open mike - Tags:

Open mike is your post.

For announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose.

The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the Policy).

Step up to the mike …

171 comments on “Open mike 26/02/2019 ”

  1. Rosemary McDonald 1

    Ngapuhi woman, fluent in Te Reo, English and French makes Big Mistake by marrying foreign guy who just happens to live and work with multiple sclerosis.


    Her skills are desperately needed….http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/PA1902/S00187/crown-launches-commitment-to-te-reo-maori.htm

    As are her husband’s….”… works full-time for the Housing Ministry in his native Quebec.

    He coaches young people with disabilities and he has multiple sclerosis.”

    But, nah. Fuck off. You have a disability…and we don’t like your kind around here…..

    So. Is this policy from Immigration going to continue even under this supposedly more humane and kind administration?

    Is this the true nature of the Coalition of Lovingkindness?

    Or is it way past time that someone told Immigration that there has been a change of government and we are not going to act like officious, heartless arseholes anymore?


    • Rosemary, I suspect you can gauge the Immigration Dept’s feelings about the new Government by the way they tried to stitch up Iain Lees Galloway.

      National made sure the heads of most, if not all, of the Ministries were Tory Compliant during their nine years in power. It’s going to take a while to weed them out.

      • greywarshark 1.1.1

        That’s where Roundup can rightfully be used. Gnats can’t even excuse themselves as roses in the wrong bed.

    • OnceWasTim 1.2

      What the hell is going on at INZ!!!!
      The number of appeals has gone up, many/most of which get accepted because fuckups were made in the first place.
      I just don’t believe it can all be put down to staff churn and inexperience.
      As things stand, they seem incapable of distinguishing between genuine cases and people with skills we (NZ Inc. needs), and those pulling rorts. (The job buying, the shitty tertiary education schemes, the sham relationships, the lack of monitoring of advisors – one you’ll recall a convicted fraudster)
      I’m currently with extended family who’ve now, like many others, decided to just give up after having wasted nearly ten years dealing with the incompetence.
      Then there’s that other little agency under MBIE that have allowed themselves to become overwhelmed by the number of cases of exploitation in the workplace
      The muppetry now just beggars belief. It’s becoming harder not to believe there is a bit of an agenda at play among some of the senior management – and as you say @TRP, the attempts at trying to stitch up I L-G haven’t gone unnoticed.
      Meanwhile, the rorts continue unabated whilst the genuine immigrant gets hammered.
      I have to say it’s probably about time Ministers started paying closer attention to some of the people dealing with various cases (McClymont, Malcolm, and a few others, as well as those working with the exploited) rather than relying on ‘their officials’. It has become way past a joke.

      But then I guess MBIE is not the only muppetry that the coalition are having to deal with (NZTA, WINZ et al)

      • cleangreen 1.2.1

        Excellently said Tim 100%

        I could not have said it; – that well .

        please keep it up, – all is appreciated.

        MBIE/NZTA are all the babies constructed by the very controversial “Mr Fix all” Steven Joyce, so that is why we have these useless ‘seeded bureaucrats still all sitting there now, as he seeded them with his clones.

        Labour must ‘weed all these national Party ‘sleeping cells’ inside these agencies out or face possibly loosing the next election next year, – It is now labour’s choice as they have 17 months left to do this.

        Tick – tick -tick!

      • Rosemary McDonald 1.2.2

        “What the hell is going on at INZ!!!!”

        They’re actually doing their job and enforcing the rules.


        Those wanting to come to Godzone had better be in tip- top health with fully functioning everything, as the less- than-perfect in mind, wind and limb are simply not welcome since….https://www.immigration.govt.nz/opsmanual-archive/5453.HTM ?

        As for thinking that being the spouse of a New Zealander…and tangata whenua to boot… is going to get you special treatment….forget it.

        “….and removed the provision for special treatment for the spouses of New Zealand citizens. This meant that applicants for the grant of citizenship who were married to New Zealand citizens would be required to meet the five-year residency period.” https://www.immigration.govt.nz/opsmanual-archive/5453.HTM

        That particular little turd was brought in under the 2005 amendments.

        So much for the new Family Friendly New Zealand….putting the wellbeing of all to the fore.

        Are we still supposed to accept that this current Labour- led government is in any fundamental way different from the previous?


        • OnceWasTim

          “They’re actually doing their job and enforcing the rules.”
          The problem appears to be with interpretation of the rules in many cases as the number of appeals will attest.
          But then as I’ve said on many occasions – it’s all working as designed and its way past time the system (and the culture within) is dismantled.

          But then there’s also the other problem with other units within MBIE that don’t quite fit with the idea that “They’re actually doing their job and enforcing the rules.”
          The Labour Inspectorate now seem more prepared to admit that the number of cases of exploitation are greater than they’d thought – even though a moron in a hurry could have told them that several years ago (many tried!)
          Again, we had one manager telling us all they had sufficient Labour Inspectors a few weeks before the government was elected – CLEARLY bullshit!)
          I accept they’ve been under-resourced in so many areas, but that doesn’t explain the continued bullshit that keeps emanating from the place.
          Perhaps if they looked into WHY there is inexperience and churn in the place – could be a starting point?

          It’s high time for reform (not just MBIE) if the coalition wants to make headway.
          I’m almost beginning to feel a tiny bit of sympathy for Peter Hughes – having to tell more and more of the PS senior “officials” what should have been bleeding bloody obvious!!!!! (Thompson and Clark anyone? Demographic Profiling anyone? etc etc etc). And MBIE’s new CEO was handed a bit of a poison chalice after that knobhead that moved in to create Messrs Joyce and Coleman’s vanity project.

          • cleangreen


            During the first national Government we heard by email (anonymous) that Mr Fix it” Steven Joyce had authorised a circular that was sent out by MBIE to every employee a warning to agree with the current government policy and act accordingly; – or find a new job.

            In cases where any press releases would be sent the managers were also warned not to say anything that would ‘ebmassess the Government policy as their employment would be reviewed’.

            Labour now needs to repeat this National control policy of the “Public services staff” as they need to support the current Government also.

            • OnceWasTim

              Codes of Conduct don’t apply to Masters of the Universe @CG. Let alone just behaving ethically and in the public interest. Just as long as you’re in the club.

              (/sarc btw)
              I can’t remember the most recent ‘issue’ that the SSCommisar has been called in to slap a wet bus ticket over some ‘officials’ but its been in the past couple of weeks.

      • greywarshark 1.2.3

        I wonder too about the management of semi government entities. I have been thinking about DHB’s – treating our medical sector as if they were factory workers. And the budget setting of hospitals – who sets that? The old refrain was that they were cutting fat out of the system. Sounds very medical doesn’t it – keyhole surgery anyone? But all the liposuction that can be done must have been done. Now we have the harsh reality of intention from the top, to cut back all public services to their level of incompetence I believe.

        (And who are behind the top bananas? Who set this austerity regime in place that is ruining all the people’s living standards in the world? And can look with equanimity and ready judgments as people struggle and fall down.)

        I think the present management mentality is to treat everybody entering a sector as an intern and work them to the bone on the basis that one day they will have a good salary if they just stick through. It is another version of the ‘couch’ interview that applicant starlets had to go through to get places in productions. Too many psychopathic Harveys at the top with their modern business training, turning out to become standard Dalek-like figures, chanting ‘Exploit, Exploit, Exploit’.

        The Daleks are a fictional extraterrestrial race of mutants in the British science fiction television series Doctor Who, created by the megalomaniacal scientist Davros of the planet Skaro to be an emotionless “master race” bent on universal conquest and domination, utterly without pity, compassion or remorse.
        The Daleks – Wikiquote

    • Anne 1.3

      Today’s public servants see everything in black and white terms. They don’t like grey areas. They don’t like Labour-led coalitions because they have a pesky habit of considering those grey areas and that makes their job harder to do.

      They have yet to catch up with the new mantra of justice and fair play. – or should I say the old mantra of j and f play which was tossed out of the window 30 plus years ago.

    • Sacha 1.4

      “Is this policy from Immigration going to continue even under this supposedly more humane and kind administration?”

      Yes. That agency tried to slip in an exception into NZ’s principled position during negotiation of the UN Disability Convention and though officials talked them down informally at the time, Immigration NZ have never been slapped back forcefully enough by any of our govts since.

      Seeing disabled people only as a burden is not good enough. Yet here we are.

  2. Morena, Standarnistas!

    A whole bunch of comments from late last night were held in the mod queue until I manually released them a few moments ago. There were a few from Sam and a couple from Gosman and a scattering of other poster’s comments. I’m not sure what the issue was, but I hope normal service has now been resumed.

    Have a nice day, y’all.

  3. vto 3

    What is it with Grant Robertson?

    He can’t seem to speak proply… or rather, on te radio and on Q&A last night, he avoids the basic words that people relate to and understand..

    .. such as “the workers pay tax, why can’t the capitalists?”
    .. “this is about making the rich pay a little more, so the working poor pay a little less.. at the moment the rich pay nothing on their speculative gains – it’s not even work”
    .. “why do we penalise work by taxing income and not capital?”
    ..”workers work hard all their lives to provide for their families. They dont earn enough to even save, so why are they penalised with income tax, when the speculators aren’t?”

    Mr Robertson – stop diving into ‘Wellington-speak’ every time. Take a leaf from Winnie’s book and lay some big one-liners down. Use words and sentences that people can relate to. And finally, get new glasses that don’t put a bocking line through your eyes.

    Alternatively, remove him from public speaking roles

    • Kat 3.1

      Wellington speak one-liners like Barry Sopers “PM in state of shock at capital gains reaction”……

    • Wayne 3.2

      Probably because he does not want to come across as a class warrior. Which would not likely help the popularity of the government.

      • Sam 3.2.1

        So Labour 47% + Greens + NZ1st

        Natz 42% + the little nat

        And so banning oil exploration? Adjusting Taina Poras compensation for inflation, signing the TPP11. Kind of like that kind of bad for popularity, eh?

        • Hongi Ika

          Who is the baby Nat is that Seeless whose party will become extinct after the 2020 Election.

          • Sam

            Sorry who? Twerkman. No wait, End of life bill Patty. It’s on the tip of my tongue just can’t seem to get past the irrelevance.

            • greywarshark

              Don’t make fun about The End of Life Bill Sam.
              That is serious and I want it brought in along with consultation to ensure that it is worded with care and meets all reasonable requirements and is overseen by some independent authority of integrity.
              It may be the one thing that is worthwhile that ACT has championed.
              It is important to many people and the whole country’s betterment.

              • Sam

                That bill was trash. We already have pain management that can be subscribe by an A&E doctor. There was no need to make the process complicated by 3 times.

                • greywarshark

                  Maybe some people don’t want to be in doctor’s hands at some particular point of their decline, and want to take themselves into the next stage – unto death. Maybe they have a right to decide what they want to do and not wait helplessly for the decision of minor gods.

                  • Sam

                    Perhaps. Although if a patient wants access to life ending medicine, I mean only doctors are certified to prescribe. That’s life.

      • vto 3.2.2

        Well then he is a chicken and letting others define the issues.

        How is someone stating the fact that the working poor pay taxes on the meagre money they make, while the non-working wealthy pay no tax on money they make a “class warrior”?

        I also think you are conflating class with money. Most rich have no class in my experience, they have gauchity and baubles, too much make-up and too many bright jackets, trinkets and toys, scathing words and poorly attitudes – but they have little to no class.

        The poor have on average a great deal more class, as in manners and respect for others.

        back to the cgt: Everybody is scared shitless of the lazy bludgers making asset value gains from no work. And paying no tax.

      • vto 3.2.3

        Wayne, why do we tax and penalise work, and not freeloading asset appreciation?

        If there is to be no capital gains tax, then there should also be no income gains tax.

        Fuck paying income tax anymore. The rich bludgers don’t want to pay tax, so neither will we.

      • AB 3.2.4

        “Probably because he does not want to come across as a class warrior”
        As so many people have said that it has become a trope – it’s only called “class war” when the poor (or the non-rich) fight back.
        Kindly take your linguistic deceitfulness somewhere else.

    • Anne 3.3

      vto @ 3
      Grant Robertson is normally a clear and coherent speaker but I have to agree with you. It wasn’t a good presentation. I had difficulty understanding him.

      I wonder if the change of time is part of the problem. I’ve picked up that the interviewees look quite tired and not up to their usual performances. Imo, it’s a poor decision to go for a 9:30 pm start on a Monday night.

      • KJT 3.3.1

        I wonder whether the real opposition to a left wing Government, is in the Labour cabinet.

        Many seem less than enthusiastic, about any socialist policies.

        And, it shows in their speeches.

  4. Adrian Thornton 4

    ‘The Coup Has Failed & Now the U.S. Is Looking to Wage War: Venezuelan Foreign Minister Speaks Out.’

    Will be interesting to see how many Trump hating, Russian conspiracy sycophants will fall in behind Trumps regime change here…quite a few I suspect.

  5. Adrian Thornton 5

    ‘The Making of Juan Guaido: How the US Regime Change Laboratory Created Venezuela’s Coup Leader’


    American Psycho: US ‘conservative’ congressman Marco Rubio posts tweet of Gaddafi’s lynching as threat to Venezuela’s Maduro


    Here is an image of what US lead regime change actually means…


    • Gosman 5.1

      Gaddafi was lynched by his own people because of the incompetence and brutality of his regime. I think it is a very apt warning to Maduro. Don’t try and do a Gaddafi and stay on beyond what the people want.

      • Hongi Ika 5.1.1

        Libya was a right royal F5$K Up for everyone Gosman, the Libyan people were a shitload better off b4 the Yanks poked their grubby little noses in there, you are a clown of the first order, who does not know shit from clay.

        • Gosman

          Yeah that’s why they rose up and overthrew him. You are aware of how Gaddafi maintained power and how he suppressed anyone who might be a threat to his messed up regime aren’t you?

          • Kevin

            Expert on Venezuela AND Libya…

            • Gosman

              Where have I claimed I am an expert on any of those topics? I know a lot about Venezuela but much less about Libya. I wouldn’t classify myself as an expert. This is a discussion. If you have counter facts then present them. Engaging in ad hominem attacks on me won’t make your case stronger though.

              • Lol calling you an expert is a ad hominem attack – what a guy

              • adam

                Calling you a liar on this is not an ad hominem when it’s true. And on this topic you have lied so often, it is sickening.

                • Gosman

                  Name me one lie. We’ve gone through this before though. You refuse to detail anything I have supposedly lied about. Instead you just make generalised statements about me lying about Venezuela.

                  • KJT

                    Repeating US, propaganda, like a bloody parrot, despite many references and facts given to you, that showed you were talking nonsense, almost made me moderate you.

                    However I tend to the view that even parroting fools deserve to be heard, and show up the inconsistency’s, in their arguments, over time.

                    • Gosman

                      What US propaganda? I am very careful not to post anything about Venezuela that cannot be backed up with evidence on the ground.

                    • KJT

                      While studiously ignoring, facts on the ground, like the one below.

                      “Venezuela has seen a remarkable reduction in poverty since the first quarter of 2003. In the ensuing four years, from 2003 to 2007, the poverty rate was cut in half, from 54 percent of households to 27.5 percent. (See Table 1). This is measured from the first half of 2003 to the first half of 2007. As can be seen in the table, the poverty rate rose very slightly by one percentage point in the second half of 2007, most likely due to rising food prices. Extreme poverty fell even more, by 70 percent—from 25.1 percent of households to 7.6 percent.

                      These poverty rates measure only cash income; as will be discussed below, they do not include non-cash benefits to the poor such as access to health care or education.

                      If Venezuela were almost any other country, such a large reduction of poverty in a relatively short time would be noticed as a significant achievement”.

                      Which don’t suit your narrative.

                      I give you that, as with the “weapons of mass destruction” you are not on your own with lying like a flatfish, sorry, being economical with the truth, about regimes the USA wants to remove.

                    • Gosman

                      No, I have no problem agreeing that Chavez was very good at spending money on poverty reduction in the first few years of his time in power and that had initially very good results. However the way he went about this laid the seeds for the economic collapse that followed. The poverty rate in Venezuela now is much worse than when the Chavista regime took over in 1999.

                      “Poverty in Venezuela is an epidemic. Nearly 90 percent of Venezuelans live in poverty. According to estimates by the United Nations Economic Commission for Latin America and the Caribbean, this is a dramatic increase from 2014 when 48 percent of Venezuelans lived in poverty. Maria Ponce is an investigator with the local universities researching the food shortage, and she stated that “this disparity between the rise in prices and the population’s salaries is so generalized that there is practically not a single Venezuelan who is not poor.””


                  • KJT

                    The results of US economic sanctions, rich whites in Venezuala upset about paying taxes, combined with repeated coup attempts and a US inspired collapse in their main export earner, would challenge the most competent Government.

                    Which I will agree Maduro’s is probably not.

                    However the corrupt self interested A holes the US wants to replace them with, are a lot worse.

                    • Gosman

                      No it wouldn’t. There are lot’s of countries with incompetent politicians and even those who have serious economic disruption (some even involving war). These nations aren’t suffering Hyper-inflation of the scale that Venezuela has or even the sort of economic contraction that has occured in Venezuela (which remember has still been able to sell 40% plus of oil to it’s supposed arch enemy of the USA in this period AND access funding from Russia and China).

                      Venezuela is quite unique in the World as being at peace yet suffering from negative impact worse than a nation at war. This is not the US’s fault. It is the fault of the policies of the Venezuelan regime. These include Price controls, Overvalued exchange rate, Nationalisation of key sectors of the economy, Printing money to cover huge budget deficits. None of these policies have been imposed on them by the US. All of them heve lead to the economic misery the country now faces.

                    • adam

                      Wow gossy you just can’t stop lying can you. You just can’t take you ideological blinkers for one second. Because to have to admit that US, Canada and The UK are actually stuffing with Venezuela economy would bring down all your other lies.

                      Sad, sad little man.

                  • adam

                    Toilet paper was your first lie. You have lied about the elections, you lied about trade, you lied about sanctions, and you lied about the constitution.

                    Those are just off the top of my head without going through all your posts.

                    You lie. I’d say it’s because you’re an ideolog, if I was being generous.

                    But as of today I think it’s because you actually want a war.

                    So keep spreading your lies, you will get what you want, death and the murder of civilians in a civil war. People like you will have made that happen. You sad, sad, little man.

              • Kevin

                You show very little understanding of what’s happening in Venezuela, Gosman.

          • KJT

            Like Indonesia, Brazil, Saudi Arabia. You mean.

    • reason 5.2

      The Usa is a Mafia Gangster state and their negotiations consist of “do what we say or we kill you and make your children suffer” ….. as they did to Gaddafi when Nato became ISIS / Al Quada / Nusras airforce.

      He was Lynched usa style …. as they used to whip, castrate, burn and torture the negros before the mob hanging.

      It was a British plane which bombed Gaddafis convoy allowing the muslim extremist and western backed rebels to get their hands on him.

      Peace offers and election negotiations were turned down by the wardogs like Hillary Clinton and Nato …… Something like 10,000 bombing missions were carried out killing thousands of civilians and destroying their infrastructure.

      What happened to Gaddafi was symbolic of what then happened to Libya ….the Nato ‘liberated’ country.

      Regarding womans rights and schooling for instance …. thats all gone…. child brides in arranged marriages back in.

      Gaddafi had female body guards who had to flee the country ….. two who didn’t were raped to death …. literally …. or raped for hours / days before being garrotted.

      And the black population of Libya were ethnically cleanesed with hundreds of Lynchings with them ending up swinging from meat hooks and ropes ….. Libya was totally destroyed as a modern socialist society.

      The people of Venezuela do not want what the usa brought to Libya …. and it seems to be what the usa is threatening.

  6. Hongi Ika 6

    Did Bazil Brush Soper slip over in the shower and bang his head this morning, the guy needs help, or needs to change the colour of his pills.

  7. Adrian Thornton 7

    Look Gosman, I know that you missed your opportunity of being a camp guard, and that now you express that frustration and your vile world view on the Standard every single day in a literal tsunami of comments, and lots of people seems quite happy to argue with you, however this is a serious subject and I have no stomach for your sick twisted ideology today thank you..please go spread your sickness somewhere else.

    • Gosman 7.1

      This is Open mike and therefore is open to all ranges of views and opinions. You aren’t a moderator so unless you can convince a moderator to do something (what I don’t know considering I am not in breech of any rules around commenting that I am aware of) you are going to have to suck it up sunshine.

      • Adrian Thornton 7.1.1

        “considering I am not in breech of any rules around commenting”…
        Except trolling like a motherfucker.

        • Gosman

          Your definition of trolling is obviously different to the moderators. Take it up with them.

          • Psycho Milt

            It’s funny how many people think “troll” is a synonym for “person who writes comments I don’t like.”

            • Adrian Thornton

              I like very much debating with people who have different views, just ask anyone who knows me, or look at my history on The Standard, but I don’t like debating with people who just argue every single fucking thing that is said by pretty everyone for what seems to be for no reason at all except to troll, or maybe for some other weird freudian reason that I can’t pinpoint..that is just boring and pointless.

              • Gosman

                I’m actually very selective on the topics and comments I respond to. Yours tends to be selected because you make uninformed and ridiculous comments about Venezuela.

                • Adrian Thornton

                  Gosman please go away and troll someone else who gives a fuck what you think..I do not.

                  • Gosman

                    As long as you continue to post nonsense about Venezuela I will continue replying Adrian. You can of course stop me doing this but stopping posting nonsense about Venezuela. The ball is in your court.

                    • Sam

                      Below $72k distributions fail to comprehend your sophistry. It actual isn’t difficult to force you to concede that your original premise for your Venezuela ideology was just bullshit on a stick.

            • One Two

              Some do, milt…

              You’ve been around long enough to have observed the gosman handles mode of operation…gosman exhibits all the classic tr*ll behaviours…not quite a bottom feeder…but close to it…

              Perhaps you don’t notice such tactics…

      • cleangreen 7.1.2

        Gosman. another wate of time you just made again.

        Get a real job!!!

        Thanks for the advice but; – no!!! – we wont’ listen to your tripe any more – so don’t waste time using your pinkie any more no-ones listening other than your clones.

        • Tamati Tautuhi

          Does this Gosman work or just spend all day on the computer wasting everybody’s time. Please do not waste your time feeding this little bottom feeding weasel he irritates the f&*k out of me, he needs professional help.

      • Siobhan 7.1.3

        Re: ‘Suck it up Sunshine’ and other apparently non trolling activities on the TS

        No one on The Standard is about to silence you Gossman, as at this point it would probably halve the number of comments on any given day, and we’ve pretty much reached the bottom of the barrell a long time back.

        • marty mars

          The technique of swamping a post or thread with lots of comments usually arguing minutiae, semantics, actual meanings of words and other deliberate techniques to distract and detach from the subjects at hand. 101 stuff and effective and annoying and deliberate.

        • cleangreen

          Hit the nail there Siobhan; & marty mars, 100%

          Gosman = no constructive intelligent discussion.

          he/she only answers questions with more questions, it is a technique of swamping a post or thread with lots of more useless anti-constructive comments to take the subject off course.

        • greywarshark

          An attack of and by Gosmania again!

      • Drowsy M. Kram 7.1.4

        Gosman: “I am not in breech of any rules…” – still flying by the seat of your pants, you have me in stitches yet again. Maybe sit this one out?

    • Other mods may see it differently, but for mine Gosman is not a troll, Adrian.

      There is a clear effort to write relevant comments, put coherent points of view and engage in debate. They may be views from the right, but as TS is not an echo chamber, that’s fine.

      However, even if I don’t think Gosman is a troll, nobody is required to feed him.

      • Sacha 7.2.1

        “nobody is required to feed him”

        Indeed. Biggest problem here for ages is those unable to resist reacting.

        Bad faith comments become more obvious when they sit on their own.

      • Adrian Thornton 7.2.2

        I beg to differ, just because Gosman can string two sentences together that are not complete gibberish and are coherent, doesn’t mean that it isn’t trolling.

        But then I am not a moderator…so whatever.

  8. Ad 8

    There was an excellent conclusion to DW’s Frank Sieren commenting on the recent Munich Security Conference about the place of EU between China and the U.S. It’s very similar to where New Zealand finds itself now between both those powers, and indeed with respect to the EU as well:


    “What makes sense for the EU is becoming increasingly obvious. China and the US have to be kept in check by strong global institutions, which allow for debate and changing coalitions. The EU does not even have a common China strategy and one needs to be worked out. If we do not allow China to defend its own interests, then China can’t agree to us defending our own. We’ll only be able to act in a way that is strategically smart if we change our perspective.

    Merkel admitted this, too, in a surprisingly open way: “I am firmly convinced that it is better to put ourselves in one another’s shoes, to look beyond our own interests and to see whether we can achieve win-win solutions together rather than to think we can solve everything ourselves.”

    The irony of history is that US President Donald Trump’s attempts to shape international policy unilaterally are inadvertently leading to the dismantling of the old order. To put it more optimistically: Trump’s selfishness is fertilizer for a multipolar world order that is forcing the EU to finally come off the fence.”

  9. cleangreen 9

    I would be in favour of a ‘Capital Gains tax’ if it funds this option I propose for saving our planet from Climate change;

    It would be more productive and environmentally sustainable for Government to offer better options for property owners to get these subsidies to make all properties more healthy.

    *For better insulation like using wool underlay and wool carpeting.

    *Double glazing of windows.

    *This would also stimulate more jobs.

    *Also sheep farmer incomes would rise and assist them to cope with lowering ‘climate change emissions’.

    *These improvements would effectively be helping to slow Climate change and will slow the rate of increasing dampness, rain and extreme weather event that cause more dampness and mould in homes.

    “Good laid plans make for far better outcomes”

    • Sacha 10.1

      I hope the various court cases continue. He does not deserve to wriggle out of personal liability that easily.

      • cleangreen 10.1.1

        Yes sasha

        I want to see him face the judge, then he could be in jail for a long time paying $25 weekly to pay all those liabilities he is now facing.

        Though he may now flee again to Israel as he did in 2016?

        • Sacha

          I just want to see a conviction or three recorded against his name forever, to officially recognise what he has done.

          Plus whatever other arrangements are available to stop him and his cronies doing the same again. Jail seems unlikely to help achieve that in his case, though it might apply to some co-defendants.

    • bwaghorn 10.2

      Yeah baby yeah

    • patricia bremner 10.3

      Yes Ad, the Whale oil bit Whahoo!! and Jenny Shipley and 3 other Mainzeal Directors have to pay 36 million. Yay!! There is a God and she is getting it right!!

      • greywarshark 10.3.1

        Just in case anyone has missed the details of this delectable most interesting judgment – read on.

        The High Court has ruled collapsed property and construction company Mainzeal traded while insolvent for nine years and has held some of the directors liable for $36 million for letting it happen.


        Just shows that business in NZ is used to being subsidised by government in numerous ways, under the table, but when it’s their own there is no guarantee of support.

        I see that many find this news of interest, so sorry everyone for adding to the links. I am impressed that they thought that the head honchos would pick up the tab for whatever they did as a twig on the branch. Very organic-thinking. Is that something they teach at Directors’ School?

        • greywarshark

          Further there was a $millions loans that Mainzeal made were reported as having generated millions of dollars of profit. I thought to whom? and looked further.

          By the time it went into liquidation in 2013, Mainzeal had made loans to related companies totalling some $61m.

          Today, the lawyer for the liquidators, Mark O’Brien, told the court that a $10.3m loan from Mainzeal was used to help parent company Richina with highly-lucrative acquisitions in Shanghai.

          I think we aren’t mean and ugly enough to cope with the hyenas of the world.
          We need to steel cap our teeth like in Jaws an old movie. It might help if we had seven foot businessmen too.

          • Cinny

            So the ship pays the money, and that’s the end of it?

            She should be struck off as a director of any NZ company, a stint doing PD probably wouldn’t hurt either.

            • KJT

              No. It gets paid by an insurance company.

              • greywarshark

                This bit from mac1 at 13.3 should go under that above about giving out loans to the main company. It seems NZ people missing out all the time – money made here just flows around the citizens feet and offshore to foreigners, or possibly to NZ holdings through the Cook Islands. I heard a report the other day that sounded as if Winston’s Winebox Inquiry hadn’t stopped the devious financial dealings at all.

                “”When the company collapsed in 2013, unpaid subcontractors and creditors were owed more than $115m. Many of these creditors themselves were put into serious financial difficulty as a result of the decisions made by the former directors.”

              • Cinny

                That blows.

                • greywarshark

                  Can someone correct me if I am wrong. The Mainzeal directors lent money to their Chinese major company so that they could buy Chinese or other profitable businesses. Meanwhile the NZ company was not solvent, and in effect loaned money that was owed to NZ suppliers to their master company, and kept on operating on slender or no profits, believing that they were so useful that the main company would always bail them out.

                  And they wouldn’t and didn’t. So in effect Mainzeal was unwisely even fraudulently funding part of the enterprise in China with money owed to NZs. It must have been running as a ponzi scheme for a good length of time.

                  That’s not prudent behaviour by the Directors, and it goes beyond poor performance as it was a deliberate act of neglect of their duty to pay their suppliers.

                  UK law: (Think twice before becoming a Director, if the others know more than you about damage control.)

                  Company Director Responsibilities
                  In the last few years, new legislation has aimed to prevent company directors from acting irresponsibly. However, the effect of such legislation has been to codify for the first time the duties owed by directors to companies, their shareholders and to the broader community, and to impose heavier burdens on company directors who are determined to act irresponsibly.
                  Directors’ Statutory Duties

                  The Companies Act 2006 sets out seven basis principles governing a company director’s behaviour, by imposing specific duties on the director. These are:

                  the duty to act within the director’s powers. The law and the company’s constitution set out what powers a director has. These powers relate to the matters upon which a director can take action or make decisions on behalf of the company, and the procedures which must be followed.
                  the duty to promote the success of the company. This does not simply mean that a director must always make decisions so as to maximise the company’s profit. The law provides that the director must always consider:
                  the likely long-term consequences of his decisions;
                  the interests of the company’s employees;
                  the company’s business relationships with suppliers, customers and others;
                  the impact of the company’s operations on the environment and community;
                  the company’s reputation for high standards of business conduct;
                  the need to act fairly as between shareholders.
                  the duty to exercise independent judgement. Company directors should always act independently and not allow themselves to be controlled by others.
                  the duty to exercise reasonable care, skill and diligence. What this means depends on any special skill or knowledge a director has. For example, a company director who is also an accountant would have a higher duty of care in financial management than one who has no special knowledge of financial matters.
                  the duty to avoid conflicts of interests. Directors must not allow themselves to fall into situations where their duties to the company are in conflict with their personal interests or duties to others.
                  the duty not to accept benefits from third parties. A director may not accept any benefit (this would include bribes) which is offered simply because of his position as director.
                  the duty to declare interests in a proposed transaction with the company. Directors must inform the company if there is any proposed transaction with the company in which the director has a direct or indirect interest. The company’s articles of association will usually provide that a company may still be involved in the decision making process regarding such transactions, if the director has properly declared his interest.

                  • Sam

                    Please don’t punish me with a wall’o text but yeah, I’d agree that Mainzeal had billions in government contrasts from the Sky City convention centre, stadiums, civil infrastructure, not to mention commercial operations. So they weren’t hurting for clients. As far as I can gather Mainzeal would continually renegotiate the quoted price for a building until they couldn’t.

                    • greywarshark

                      Why would you be punished? If you know about company and directors duties you needn’t look again. It isn’t just a wall of anonymous text, it’s a list of the Responsibilities.

                      Can someone advise whether there is a possibility of NZ suppliers and contractors mounting a civil suit to see if they could get some of that $117 million back? What about the shareholders? Though a good number of them could be overseas pension investments/retirement savings schemes.

                    • Sam

                      In liquidations, contractors are the last to receive compensation behind landlords and shareholders.

                      I just don’t get down reading corporate bibles.

                  • KJT

                    I’m actually finding it hard to understand why, the Mainzeal directors, are still out of jail.

                    • Sam

                      It’s in the acronym limited liability. Shareholders assumes no liability.

                    • KJT

                      Shareholders in a limited company cannot be held liable, except in some rare cases. Employees including directors and managers, can.

                    • Sam

                      Financial fraud is just really, really hard to prove. The number of cases that don’t go to trial is one part of the story, the number of public prosecutors with the skills to explain complex financial fraud in a manner that every one else can understand is another story.

  10. Robert Guyton 11


    Even though billionaires work harder…

  11. Fireblade 12

    Simon Bridges is directing his Twitter page readers to Kiwiblog.

    He must be comfortable with people reading the comments
    section as well then…

    Simon is an idiot.


    • bwaghorn 13.1

      Fuck this day is just getting better

    • Andre 13.2

      Won’t affect her in the tiniest little bit.

      “The directors are covered by liability insurance which will pay their damages.”

      Personal responsibility and accountability is for the great unwashed masses, not the elite.

      • Gabby 13.2.1

        It’ll look great on her cv drey.

      • AB 13.2.2

        That’s right – sadly no double-bunking in a Serco joint for Dame Ship.
        Though for our own amusement we could start a competition for the most suitable cellmate.
        Maybe Rob Muldoon’s ghost?

    • mac1 13.3

      From the article cited.

      “The directors were covered by liability insurance, and Bethell hoped the damages awarded would be paid quickly.”

      Who paid the liabiity insurance?

      So, in the end, what sanction applies for a company director guilty of trading while insolvent?

      Will she be employed again as a company director. Pay a fine? Go to prison? Have a criminal record? Lose her title?

      Or is this the worst she gets?

      “”When the company collapsed in 2013, unpaid subcontractors and creditors were owed more than $115m. Many of these creditors themselves were put into serious financial difficulty as a result of the decisions made by the former directors.”

      For the behaviour which happened between 2005-13? And which the guilty parties are contemplating appealing, to delay justice thus denying it further.

      • Sacha 13.3.1

        Wonder if this conviction means creditors can lodge their own civil prosecutions?

      • Cinny 13.3.2

        “Will she be employed again as a company director. Pay a fine? Go to prison? Have a criminal record? Lose her title?

        Or is this the worst she gets?”


        • Augustus

          I’ll bet the answers to those questions will be: yes, no, no, no, no. Yes.

          • mac1

            Not bad for a former PM of New Zealand to be fined $6 million, responsible for a company going broke having borrowed $42 million, and owing $115 million at liquidation.

            And the Nats claim to know something about business……………..FFS!

    • Ad 13.4

      Sorry for the repeated link just saw yours.

    • Adrian Thornton 13.5

      Of course no one is really surprised, as everyone in their hearts know that National politicians are all corrupt on some level..it is just a natural part of adhering to their selfish and devious ideology.

      Still it is a good news story to enjoy today, RNZ should have it at the end of their hourly news roundup..sort of like a feel good fluffy kitten story.

  12. ianmac 14

    How sad:
    “Ex-Mainzeal chair Jenny Shipley and other directors ordered to pay $36m by High Court.” ( I seem to remember that she and the other directors resigning a few days before the company failed.)
    Edit: Yes Mullett. How sad.

  13. bwaghorn 15

    When I click to reply the little cursor? Thing is up by n in bwaghorn . Thought ya might like to know.

  14. Ad 16

    Ex- Prime Minister and Chinese Government stooge Jenny Shipley is found guilty as a director of trading Mainzeal while insolvent:


    Shipley’s reforms destroyed so many New Zealand families.
    Never forget.

    • Stuart Munro 16.1

      It would be a priority for a prudent government to remove her from the board of the largely publicly funded CCB, which she chairs.

  15. One Two 17

    Scientists call for Protection from Non-ionizing Electromagnetic Field Exposure

    Scientific basis for our common concerns

    Numerous recent scientific publications have shown that EMF affects living organisms at levels well below most international and national guidelines. Effects include increased cancer risk, cellular stress, increase in harmful free radicals, genetic damages, structural and functional changes of the reproductive system, learning and memory deficits, neurological disorders, and negative impacts on general well-being in humans. Damage goes well beyond the human race, as there is growing evidence of harmful effects to both plant and animal life.

    These findings justify our appeal to the United Nations (UN) and, all member States in the world, to encourage the World Health Organization (WHO) to exert strong leadership in fostering the development of more protective EMF guidelines, encouraging precautionary measures, and educating the public about health risks, particularly risk to children and fetal development. By not taking action, the WHO is failing to fulfill its role as the preeminent international public health agency.

    Collectively we also request that:

    1. Children and pregnant women be protected;

    2. Guidelines and regulatory standards be strengthened;

    3. Manufacturers be encouraged to develop safer technology;

    4. Utilities responsible for the generation, transmission, distribution, and monitoring of electricity maintain adequate power quality and ensure proper electrical wiring to minimize harmful ground current;

    5. The public be fully informed about the potential health risks from electromagnetic energy and taught harm reduction strategies;

    6. Medical professionals be educated about the biological effects of electromagnetic energy and be provided training on treatment of patients with electromagnetic sensitivity;

    7. Governments fund training and research on electromagnetic fields and health that is independent of industry and mandate industry cooperation with researchers;

    8. Media disclose experts’ financial relationships with industry when citing their opinions regarding health and safety aspects of EMF-emitting technologies;

    9. White-zones (radiation-free areas) be established.

    • greywarshark 17.1

      Thanks for more on EMF One Two. The problems from 5G are never mentioned it’s all rah rah about how fast it is.

      Good for getting films etc so people never have to be without a placebo to look at and so never have to stress and think or imagine. Mind slobs being filled up with whatever candy floss or concoction that the money-diseased find suitable.

      • One Two 17.1.1

        I will continue to post and re-post more detail, as there is decades of literature which is in the public domain…

        The deployment will continue, and the sales pitch will never include a word about the known dangers and evidence of damage to human, animals, plants and insects…

        The deployment will meet considerable road-blocks in the forms of existing legislation and acts (environmental mainly), as well as community’s in various nations and regions as awareness grows regarding the threat posed by cumulative EME build up, as well as the threat to planet earths natural frequencies and harmonics, which are responsible for creating and maintaining ‘life’…

        Nations which deploy sooner, will provide the base of updated evidence of the damaged caused by 5G technology and modulations, as at present time the (misleading and incorrect) claims of ‘no known evidence of harm’ in relation to 5G, look certain to require an archive of injury and suffering caused to human beings, and further environmental degradation..

        Regrettably, before action will be taken by those agencies charged with protecting public health and the environment…

        Climate Change will play a major role in slowing and halting the deployment of damaging technologies, directly and indirectly…

        Retain hope, gw…there is large global movement gaining momentum in all nations and regions, including NZ…

    • Bazza64 17.2

      More pseudoscience junk from One Two. Anyone who wants to read something scientific on this issue should check out David Gorski on Twitter, he exposes all sorts of quacks & dodgy types, who usually push this type of stuff because they have something to sell to you.

      • greywarshark 17.2.1

        Isn’t Twitter mainly for Twits ands people giving quick responses and updates to their fans? The EMF concerns need more than that.

        • Bazza64

          Your post is about the length of a tweet, so you would be at home there.

          EMF concerns are on twitter – you just have to click on them to link to articles of interest.

  16. Andre 18

    It seems the prominent cleric found guilty of kiddy-fiddling can now be discussed since the suppression orders have been lifted and the case is reported in said cleric’s home newspapers.

    The reason for the suppression order was apparently:

    Until now the trials have been subject to a suppression order and could not be reported. The reason for the strict order was that [redacted] faced a second trial in relation to separate alleged historical offences. The first trial was suppressed temporarily so information from it would be less likely to influence the jury in the second. Suppression orders are not unusual in such cases.

    But Kidd has now ordered that reporting restrictions be lifted after the Department of Public Prosecutions dropped the second set of charges. Kidd had ruled that key evidence was inadmissible and could not be used, significantly weakening the prosecution’s case.

    Name redacted and link not supplied in case the suppression order is still active here.

    • Ad 18.1

      If one more Republican Senator agrees to vote against Trump’s emergency declaration, Trump will be stopped flat on the most important part of his immigration platform.

      Pell, Shipley, Whaleoil, Trump; Going to be a good week against the extreme right.

      • Andre 18.1.1

        Genghis Can’t will just veto the legislation overturning his emergency declaration, and there won’t be enough Repug votes for the veto override.

        It’ll be the courts that stop the “emergency”. The interesting bit will be if it gets to the Supreme Court in time. I’m awfully curious how the 5 Repug justices are going to reconcile upholding the “emergency” with their past positions. Or whether they’ll just brazenly ignore all the precedents and all the principles they’ve previously held dear.

        • Ad


          But each of those steps puts President Trump further into isolation and ridicule.

          Both sides of the Senate voting to defeat him is massive.

          Then being taken to the Supreme Court by Congress.

          Then forcing Generals to give up funding for political projects.

          Each one of those steps under heavy media scrutiny.

          Each one of those steps narrows his base further.

          And by then, it’s too late to see anything new constructed in time for the election.

          He’s taking this version of white nationalism to its natural political end.

        • Ad


          But each big step isolates Trump further.

          A majority from both sides defeats him.

          Then the President is taken to the Supreme Court.

          Then Generals get large reallocations of dedicated funding.

          Each step scritinised by the MSM.

          And too late for 2020 construction.

          Trump takes his version of nationalism to its predictable end.

  17. Ad 19

    Whaleoil, Jenny Shipley, and now one day after the closure of the big Catholic anti-sex crime conference …………….

    ……………… into jail goes Cardinal Pell.


    Makes for a happy day.

  18. Ad 20

    …. and into jail goes Cardinal Pell.

    Great day against evil 🙂

  19. Ad 21

    Really lovely piece of work from Gordon Campbell on the corrupt relationship between the Chinese government and the National government both in power and in Opposition. Just the historic set of links and relationships set out in it is worth the read by itself:


    • BM 21.1

      What a load of boring waffle that was.

      Didn’t see any corruption either, just politicians developing trade with China as you would expect since Labour had done a free trade deal with China.

      • Exkiwiforces 21.1.1

        Then we have this article from Oz BM and btw did you know that old mate Locke is in the same bed with you Neo Con/ Libs supporting Huawei’s 5G?


      • AB 21.1.2

        BM is right .
        Nats can sniff out easy money like an airport beagle honing in on a banana.
        Of course they’re all over China.
        They’ll push it to the “pretty legal” stage every time but not often go over the line. Corrupt ideologies attract dodgy people.

        • BM

          It was more timing than anything else, free trade deal just done with China, the second biggest economy in the world, businesses opportunities coming out the wazoo.

          If Labour had won the election in 2008, the only difference would have been instead of National politicians doing deals it would have been Labour ones.

          Labour didn’t do a free trade deal with China for nothing.

        • Stuart Munro

          Actually they’re not very good at understanding where the ‘fairly legal’ line is, hence Shipley having to pay and essentially being shown to be unfit to hold directorships of anything.

          Southern Response, another Gnat crony outfit, launched a huge amount of legal action instead of paying earthquake victims as they were supposed to. They didn’t win a single case.

      • Gabby 21.1.3

        Developing their post politics careers BMmer.

  20. Adrian Thornton 22

    The rest of the world are now realizing that backing the US/Trumps completely illegal and transparently obvious imperialist regime change operation (which has failed spectacularly) in Venezuela is looking more and more illegitimate as every day passes, many of these countries which themselves have suffered the brutal and sickening reality of US backed interventions in the recent past, are getting nervous at the White Houses extremist rhetoric.

    Just a tiny taste of what US Imperialist intervention looks like..

    Deportations, Assassinations, and Dictator Nations: A Timeline of U.S. Intervention in Latin America

    Chile recognises 9,800 more victims of Pinochet’s rule

    Papers Show U.S. Role in Guatemalan Abuses

    Knowing all this, It is hard to imagine that anyone would support US intervention in Venezuela today…yet there are, why and what justification could they possibly have for offering their support for an action that will undoubtedly cause tenfold or more death and suffering?..and more especially when it has been freely admitted by the White house itself that Oil and resources are their real reasons for wanting regime change in Venezuela.

    John Bolton, January 29, 2019
    “It will make a big difference to the United States economically if we could have American oil companies really invest in and produce the oil capabilities in Venezuela,”

    Yes it would seem that some people have absolutely no moral compass whatsoever. Perversely many of them relish in it, as some of us watch on in disbelief and dismay as they keenly and proudly prance about displaying their inner moral wasteland with such pride for everyone to see right here on this site…yuk, it’s revolting.

    • BM 22.1

      Do you have relatives or friends living in Venezuela?

      • Adrian Thornton 22.1.1

        Why do you ask?

      • AB 22.1.2

        “Thornton” doesn’t sound like an Hispanic or Amerindian name – though there’s always marriage I guess.
        Maybe Adrian has reached a point of ethical development where he cares about the well-being of people he doesn’t know and will never meet?
        Nah – that seems too far-fetched eh? Can’t be real – gotta be something in it for him eh?

  21. ianmac 23

    From No Right Turn Re Shipley:
    “…Meanwhile there’s another curious feature, and that is the amount owed by the Mainzeal directors will apparently be mostly covered by liability insurance. Which seems… odd. Most insurance policies for us dirty peasants include a clause saying that they won’t pay out for intentional, reckless or criminal behaviour – …”


  22. greywarshark 24

    Cheaper regional fares with Air NZ!

    After years of increasing fares and cutting routes – the tide seems to be turning – after Air New Zealand announced domestic tickets will decrease by up to 50 per cent. The cheapest regional routes will now start from $39.

  23. Sacha 25

    Successful litigant says Slater’s recent health claims are not backed by evidence presented to court: https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12207479

    Blomfield said the High Court ruling was followed by Slater filing with the Court of Appeal then seeking to delay the subsequent hearing on the basis of ill-health. He said Slater was then obliged by the court to provide evidence supporting his claims around his health and “that evidence simply didn’t support his application”.

    “He has told the public he had two strokes, but the evidence showed he had only had one. He keeps repeating the fact [sic] that the stroke was caused by stress and that he must now avoid stress. However, the medical evidence is that his particular stroke has nothing to do with stress and he is in no more danger of another stroke due to stress than any other person.

    “He claimed to have cognitive and language impairment because of his stroke, but the evidence showed he had none. He claimed to be too incapacitated to communicate with his lawyers, but he was simultaneously engaging in political discussions in the comments section of the Whale Oil website.”

    Blomfield said the Court of Appeal gave Slater until February 22 to provide evidence supporting his claims of ill-health.

    “He filed no response at all. Instead, he applied for bankruptcy. He is now saying his proceedings need to be halted for that reason. He is doing everything he can to avoid the consequences of his own nefarious actions.”

    • joe90 25.1

      Squealing about his health seems to be the go to when things don’t go too well for him.

      • Sacha 25.1.1

        Mental health can be a lifelong struggle, to be fair. Does not make a person act like an arsehole however.

    • BM 25.2

      Yeah, when I read the announcement post on his stroke, the whole thing stunk of bullshit.

      Doctor says stroke cause purely by stress, Slater was a tremendous physical specimen in great health when stroke occurred.

      Lol, good one.

    • millsy 25.3

      I hope the guy gets his power cut off. 12 years on, karma delivers.

  24. Eco Maori 26

    Kia ora Newshub Paddy the fire in Tasman has flared up again you say it is the dryest year on record.
    There you go more carbon being spilled at sea on a heritage class Island site in Australia.
    The Exotic animals that have been Taxidermed for sale by auction look like they will get a lot of interest from hunting lodges Ka kite ano P.S The Mokopunas are a big distraction

  25. Eco Maori 27

    Kia ora The AM Show.
    The small business are the backbone of the country so if the growth fund grows small businesses in the regions that will lift the regions economy.
    I have already predicted that trump won’t win the 2020 election.
    The muppets around here like to let fireworks off when the fireworks season has long finished they are wishing to become cowboys fools.
    I still don’t trust your polls they look loaded from what I see most people in NZ don’t support trump????????.
    I know who all the rats ARE.
    It would be a good show if you talk about the real big issue the whole world faces but know you just focus on the trump and brexit distractions. You should be taking about climate change that’s is what is the biggest issue for our grandchildren O that’s correct neanderthal can’t think about the futures wellbeing.???????????.
    NO fool if you look at Europe all the wealthy stable countries have heaps railway tracks cheap reliable trains low cost mostly elictric trains so we are about to go back 30 years and build a low cost railway. That is the best way to make the regions wealthy. Railways are a stable cheap way to transport people and goods China seen that hence the new Silk Road railway are not prone to oil prices shocks that is what North Land needs not oil burning 3 Lane high ways.
    You don’t look trust worthy steve rogers you looks like A go oil part neanderthal big conflict of interest there go oil party pinned its tail on trump and they are going to lose all the power they have bestowed on them by the American people. I have seen trump being a racist bigot on air he picks fight with China he trashes Obama one doesn’t have to be very bright to see trump is a racist person if you can’t see that well the prizim of the $$$$&&$$$$$$, is blinding you.
    There you go the dryest year on record in Tasman and know one is taking about the big picture climate change trump is suppressing that I can see that plan as day.
    Chris the American metrologist not one word about climate change that’s just backs my words up.
    He is losing his base duncan and the am shows hip pocket are being filled by trumps puppets for there bullshit he does not understand the ways of Asia cultures.
    I say it is cool that Hugh Jackman is visiting Aotearoa on his world tour. He is inspiring Alot of our youth to become Stars like him.
    Even your guest are in on supporting trump he can not look into the camera.
    The lady keeps a straight face but her hands are giving away her nervousness te waha can – – – but the body gives it away. te trump show. the guest have been given scripts lol just like the poll just trying to manipulate the people.
    Living wage Pay is a good way to keep workers as in the last 30 years management has stolen a bigger % of companies money and the people who make the money for the company are getting less.
    Look at Fonterra it has not delivered to farmers what was sold to them they have just made the cost of managing the export of milk powder more expensive and given farmers sweets f all. Ka kite ano

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