Open mike 26/05/2022

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, May 26th, 2022 - 102 comments
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Open mike is your post.

For announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose.

The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the Policy).

Step up to the mike …

102 comments on “Open mike 26/05/2022 ”

  1. Ed 1

    Mike Smith and Matt Robson make comments that will be discomforting to the armchair warriors on the Standard.

    ’Smith fears New Zealand could now find itself "on the wrong side of history" by helping prolong a conflict in the interests of waning US hegemony while risking its own interests in the Asia-Pacific region, and increasing the risks of a nuclear war.’

    ’Former minister in Helen Clark's Labour government, Matt Robson, echoed his concerns, and called for an informed debate in Parliament over the country's increasing involvement in the conflict.’

    https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/467866/nz-entering-ukraine-conflict-at-whim-of-govt-former-labour-politicians

    • Jenny how to get there 1.1

      Matt Robson doubles down on his support for unjust wars.

      The evidence is that Putin wanted to take over Ukraine, and has used missiles, artillery and aerial bombardment to smash any resistance, turning towns and cities to rubble and killing many civilians in the process.

      Matt Robson is a big supporter of unjust wars, willing to destroy his own political party to involve New Zealand in the invasion and occupation of Afghanistan. The cost of Matt Robson's treachery is 10 NZDF soldiers lives, and drawing us into committing war crimes to perpetuate that war and occupation. History shows that the war in Afghanistan was an cruel and unjust war, that achieved nothing except, leaving that country devastated and starving, its infrastructure ruined and its government accounts seized by the American aggressor.
      By betraying his own party majority democratic decision not to back this war.
      Matt Robson has blood on his hands.
      It should be of little surprise to most on the Left that Matt supports the bloody invasion of Ukraine.

      • Incognito 1.1.1

        Did you experience a short-circuit in your brain this morning listening to RNZ? You probably wouldn’t be the only one here on TS.

        Where does Matt Robson state or imply that he “supports the bloody invasion of Ukraine”?

        Is calling for public debate and discussion now an act of betrayal and a show of support of violence and war? If so, he clearly needs to be cancelled and silenced toot sweet.

        Next you might call him a genocidal fascist for questioning us, Aotearoa-New Zealand, for being in lockstep with the US of A, still or again.

    • Bruce 1.2

      Mike Smith may be feeling may be a little uncomfortable himself this morning as the behaviour of his heroes in China is revealed.

      https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2022/5/24/xinjiang-leak-sheds-new-light-on-chinas-uighur-camps

      • aj 1.2.1

        Dr. Adrian Zenz is a senior follow at the “Victims of Communism memorial foundation” in Washington D.C, an ideological organization funded by congress.
        Zenz is a fundamentalist Christian. Whilst religious affiliation does not discredit one, nevertheless the specific nature of his beliefs put him on the most extreme right of the American evangelical wing. This individual is being used to ferment a global narrative concerning China, with total silence or background information offered on what he actually believes in.

        Amongst these, Zenz states that all “other belief systems” to Christianity are “ultimately inspired by Satan” and that “those who reject faith in Jesus will be sentenced to eternal punishment”

        Looks like I’m in for eternal punishment then.

        https://chollima.org/who-is-adrian-zenz-the-christian-fundamentalist-leading-the-global-xinjiang-narrative/

        The truth is that Xinjiang allegations are always:

        1) coordinated
        2) deliberately released at strategic moments in time
        3) are used to advance specific policy based goals

        And each new wave *always* begins with the coincidental discovery of newly found documents which are then analyzed by Adrian Zenz.

        https://twitter.com/Tom_Fowdy/status/1528990169356853248

        • In Vino 1.2.1.1

          Cheer up aj – you will not be alone in eternal punishment.

          We should be able to do rotating shifts of wailing in anguish.

      • aom 1.2.2

        A countervailing report: https://news.cgtn.com/news/2022-05-25/China-U-S-covers-own-lies-with-another-over-Xinjiang-related-issues-1akhKRuSzRe/index.html.

        Of course, either report could be based on fabricated information but interesting that so much evidence should appear just when Bachelet, United Nations High Commissioner for Human Rights, is being put under US led pressure to abandon an investigative trip to Xinjiang.

        "The U.S. side called Bachelet's visit a mistake, saying the U.S. has "no expectation that the PRC (People's Republic of China) will grant the necessary access required to conduct a complete, unmanipulated assessment of the human rights environment in Xinjiang."

        Of course, the 1,690,000 prison population sounds pretty horrific even if excluding an alleged 1 million political prisoners, in a population of 1.4 billion. However, China is only second to the US which has 2,068,800 prisoners for a population of less than 350 million. How many there could be regarded as political prisoners?

        It might pay to avoid a rush to judgement until the UN report is submitted by Michelle Bachelet before making a judgement on the 'new' evidence from a US-based academic Adrian Zenz. There s a history of fabricating evidence for political purposes.

    • Joe90 1.3

      Yourself, Smith, and Matt "RT" Robson. Running dogs for the genocidal, imperialist thugs who'll think little of orphaning children as they erase Ukrainian identity.

      //

      https://twitter.com/JuliaDavisNews/status/1528949603797815297

      https://twitter.com/JuliaDavisNews/status/1529469489665949696

    • Populuxe1 1.4

      And yet I'm not remotely discomforted. Odd that.

  2. Stephen D 2

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/world/south-pacific/300597540/china-wants-10-pacific-nations-to-endorse-sweeping-regional-agreement

    There will be much huffing and puffing regarding this move by China.

    ISTM they want want 3 things. To have more votes in the UN to block any potential moves by Taiwan for recognition. To be able to spy more easily on the US, Australia, France and us. And fish, fish, fish. Tuna stocks will be wiped out.

    s

  3. mikesh 3

    I see that even Henry Kissenger is now advocating that Ukraine surrender (in effect), and yield territory to Russia.

    “I hope the Ukrainians will match the heroism they have shown with wisdom,” he said, adding with his famous sense of realpolitik that the proper role for the country is to be a neutral buffer state rather than the frontier of Europe.

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/world/europe/300597650/ukraine-war-brings-an-unusual-moral-edge-to-the-world-economic-forum

    • aj 3.1

      I never thought I'd say this. US has gone so full blown warmongering over the last 2 decades that Henry Kissinger now sounds like a pacifist and peace lover.

      • Populuxe1 3.1.1

        Or, Occam's Razor here, Kissinger is still an evil, venal little man who gets paid a lot of money to advise Putin and you're an apologist for a genocidal imperialist klepto-oligarch.

        • In Vino 3.1.1.1

          I think Occam's Razor is getting stretched rather thin.

          • Populuxe1 3.1.1.1.1

            Kissinger is a known quantity

            • In Vino 3.1.1.1.1.1

              Your opinion.. but my 'rather thin' statement relates to the rest of your leaps of reasoning.

              • Populuxe1

                Okay apparatchik

                • In Vino

                  Jawohl, Herr Obersturmbandführer.

                  • Populuxe1

                    Even the Nazis were shocked by Katyn

                    • In Vino

                      They made a profession of being shocked by Katyn. It suited them at the time..

                    • joe90

                      Even the Nazis were shocked by Katyn

                      The statement could've been released last week.

                      In response to the German scoop, on 15 April 1943, in full indignation at Goebbels’ slander, the Moscow radio released a statement by the Sovinformburo news agency, placing the blame on the Nazis and declaring punishment for the crime committed by "German fascist killers". The first key paragraph alone contained the main theses on the German responsibility, and, in consequence, on the German provocation aimed at the USSR:

                      "Goebbels’ slanderers have been disseminating the inventions of mass execution of Polish officers by the Soviet authorities in the Smolensk region for the last two or three days, as if they had taken place in the spring of 1940. German fascist thugs are not retreating in this new monstrous malarkey of their most villainous and vile lie, with the help of which they are trying to hide the incredible crimes committed, as it is clear now, by themselves"

                      [iii].

                      https://ipn.gov.pl/en/news/4020,The-Katyn-lie-Its-rise-and-duration.html

    • joe90 3.2

      Imagine a world where Kissinger did stay put.

      https://twitter.com/OxanaShevel/status/1529569279506530304

      • mikesh 3.2.1

        Zelenskyy's reliance on ad hominem arguments suggests he doesn't have a credible argument to offer.

        • joe90 3.2.1.1

          Credible arguments to counter the reckonings of the warmonger responsible for the dropping of half a million tons of bombs on Cambodia alone, killing at least 100,000 civilians?

          Do fuck off.

        • Populuxe1 3.2.1.2

          3,091,000 war deaths in Vietnam between 1955–75

    • left for dead 4.1

      Ah,been looking for you Pat,that is a great link,which I have spread all over. Thanks. Can you do a post on this ?

      • pat 4.1.1

        It is indeed an informative link and expands on the views of the likes of Kevin Anderson…another who understands the difficulties (and constraint of time)….it is well worth the hour plus to listen (or google Simon Michaux, if you prefer to read, though hes an entertaining speaker)

        Im happy to continue providing links as I come across them but am unlikely to author a post for a couple of reasons…the theme is contrary to the accepted narrative here and my writing abilities would not do it service.

        • left for dead 4.1.1.1

          Ok. I've listened twice and urge all to at least have a listen,we can't stay in our silo's.Have a good day folks.

  4. Adrian Thornton 5

    So it turns out that Hillary Clinton started a disinformation campaign that turned into a fully fledged bat shit crazy conspiracy…. all Western "Liberal" media brought into it and perpetuated it mindlessly and endlessly for four long years…will she suffer consequences?….will the Liberal media be held to account?….yeah Right, disseminating propaganda and lies for power is their job, just look at the war in Ukraine now…more War propaganda delivered without question…as usual.

    I wonder if even one of the many Russiagaters here on The Standard will offer any sort of apology for all the smears and attacks directed at myself and others over this issue?…yeah Right…no, as we can all see they have just mindlessly and seamlessly moved on to parrot and defend the very next piece of propaganda and war mongering bullshit that has been feed to them…you would think there would be a little self reflection after being humiliated so publicly…but it turns out these people seem to have about as much humility as they do for capacity critical thinking…ie;zero..nothing…zilch.

    Hillary Clinton Did It
    "Her 2016 campaign manager says she approved a plan to plant a false Russia claim with a reporter"

    "The Russia-Trump collusion narrative of 2016 and beyond was a dirty trick for the ages, and now we know it came from the top—candidate Hillary Rodham Clinton"

    "In short, the Clinton campaign created the Trump-Alfa allegation, fed it to a credulous press that failed to confirm the allegations but ran with them anyway, then promoted the story as if it was legitimate news. The campaign also delivered the claims to the FBI, giving journalists another excuse to portray the accusations as serious and perhaps true"

    "Most of the press will ignore this news, but the Russia-Trump narrative that Mrs. Clinton sanctioned did enormous harm to the country. It disgraced the FBI, humiliated the press, and sent the country on a three-year investigation to nowhere"

    https://www.wsj.com/articles/hillary-clinton-did-it-robby-mook-michael-sussmann-donald-trump-russia-collusion-alfa-bank-11653084709

    • Francesca 5.1

      Oh Goodness me . who to believe anymore when even the Dept of Homeland Security has become a dupe of Putin's propaganda.

      https://www.politico.com/news/2022/05/24/american-fighters-ukraine-white-supremacists-00034860

      “Ukrainian nationalist groups including the Azo[v] Movement are actively recruiting racially or ethnically motivated violent extremist-white supremacists (RMVE-WS) to join various neo-Nazi volunteer battalions in the war against Russia,” the report said.

      • Populuxe1 5.1.1

        So they're recruiting white-supremacists to fight white Russians? Seems legit.

        • In Vino 5.1.1.1

          You do know historically who the White Russians were?

          • Populuxe1 5.1.1.1.1

            Maybe your understanding of Russian history being stuck at the revolution is your problem?

    • Incognito 5.2

      Pity you had to draw the attention to yourself in the 2nd paragraph, which is a distraction and diversion from the rest of the comment. People don’t like to listen to a broken record and tend to respond the same way each time they hear the same scratchy noise.

      • Francesca 5.2.1

        Well it is the major contradiction of the US defence of Ukraine

      • Adrian Thornton 5.2.2

        Why shouldn't I draw attention to myself and the other small minority of commenters like Morrissey who were attacked relentlessly over years over our stand on this major conspiracy…why shouldn't we feel like we should be offered an apology by those who regularly directed ad hominem and vile comments at us?

        But I of course know full well this will never happen, for the reasons I have already stated in my earlier comment.

        By the way the only broken record I can hear going around and around infinitum, is your boring and insistent critiquing of my comments.

        • Incognito 5.2.2.1

          And here we have it again, it’s all about you, you, you!!

          Why do you do it if you know you won’t get your sorry apology??

          Why do you do it if you know I or another commenter might critique it??

          Can’t you handle critique, which is not even all that robust??

          Tells us, Adrian, why do you comment here with your passive-aggressive comments and then moan when you get the expected response??

          • Francesca 5.2.2.1.1

            oh dear, I'm sorry I thought you were having a go at me, therefore the reply which comes across as a non sequitur.

          • Adrian Thornton 5.2.2.1.2

            I can handle critique just fine, which I have proven regularly on this site…and quite a bit from you alone I might add…however to my original point, all I have said is now that a whole lot of people have been proven to have been wrong in their belief and defense of the Trump/Russiagate conspiracy…and myself and others have been proven to have been on the right side of history in pushing back against this mainstream misinformation…so how about they at the very least acknowledge the fact that they were wrong.

            You do understand that are the only one here who actually boringly critiques the vibe of my comments all the time..and when I say boring I really mean that…often when you comment to me, I don't even bother reading them because you say basically the same shit to me all the fucking time..so why waste my time reading the same boring critique time and time again?

  5. Blade 6

    When Will Smith slapped Chris Rock’s face at the Oscars, it reminded some folk of another incident that happened during the 1973 Oscars. It involved John Wayne wanting to attack Sacheen Littlefeather. Luckily security held Wayne back.

    John Wayne had strong views on race. I remember reading his article in Playboy about black people.

    Pity (or luckily?) social media wasn't around in those days. Waynes' career would have been over along with Clint Eastwoods.

    https://www.sportskeeda.com/pop-culture/news-john-wayne-1973-oscars-attack-clint-eastwood-mocking-sacheen-littlefeather-explained-will-smith-x-chris-rock-slap-sparks-debate

  6. Stephen D 7

    Bryce Edwards has some sensible comments to make on electoral law reform.

    https://democracyproject.nz/2022/05/26/bryce-edwards-major-shakeup-of-electoral-rules-could-be-coming/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=bryce-edwards-major-shakeup-of-electoral-rules-could-be-coming

    The idea of reducing the threshold, and getting rid of the overhang certainly has merit. Maybe 3%. Not sure about reducing the voting age. The 16 year olds I know would make it interesting.
    I would like to see all funding done by an independent body, with donations banned altogether.

    A 4 year term makes more sense in terms of a actual governance. And Maori should be able to move from roll to roll whenever.

    • gsays 7.1

      In a similar vein, I understand that people who watch Shortland Street religiously are allowed to vote too.

  7. Puckish Rogue 8

    Pop culture update time including extremely mild spoilers that don't give away the plot (such as it is for this movie)

    Top Gun: Maverick

    This movie is fantastic entertainment, I rate it slightly higher than the original.

    Its not perfect, the shoe horned in romance didn't really do it for me (or my wife for that matter) and it felt at times as if there was a previous movie we haven't watched but for all that this is top tier movie entertainment.

    I've always been a fan of Tom Cruise because you can tell he loves making movies and he gives 110% for every role but for this he has surpassed himself, you can tell he really wanted this to work and it does, it really does.

    There is no star today (sorry Brad Pitt) that can get close to Tom Cruise when hes on and he may have single-handedly shown to Hollywood that we, the paying public, don't care about representation (plenty of people of colour and woman as pilots in this movie) as long as the characters are more than one dimensional cut outs (see also Aliens)

    I would go so far as to say that this is Tom Cruises Magnum Opus, not saying its his best movie (I have a soft spot for Born On The Fourth Of July) but this is everything that encapsulates Tom Cruises career, turned up to eleven

    You want charming Tom, funny Tom, driven Tom, doubting Thomas (yeah yeah I know), Tom who even though hes 59 can easily pass for late 30s (especially with his shirt off), introspective Tom, take charge Tom, running Tom (of course) then this is it, this is everything

    If this is the start of Tom Cruises with drawl from more physical movies (Mission Impossible aside) then this is one helluva swan song

    Yes its unashamedly nostalgic, as soon as the movie starts and the music starts playing and the you watch the credits you'll know what I mean and yes its unashamedly patriotic but it works

    Grab a large popcorn and fizzy drink (go to the toilet first as its over 2 hours), sit back, let the sound wash over you, put your brain in neutral and prepare to be transported back to when you were 13 years old (or however old you were when you first watched Top Gun)

    Hollywood please take not of this, Tom can't carry the whole industry forever

  8. Incognito 9

    Experts such as Children's Commissioner Judge Frances Eivers say an increase in young people behind the wheel in ram raids is being created by families living in a "total state of hopelessness" and social issues need to be addressed.

    https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/467885/police-minister-announces-government-s-crime-prevention-package

    Yeah, nah. Not what the hardliners want to hear; too complex, too much nuance, too cuddly, too woke.

    • gsays 9.1

      Thanks for the links, Incognito.

      While the government reaction is framed as tough on crime, it reeks of an informal subsidy to insurance companies. When this initiative was first proposed, a week or so ago, my reckons were to make it available to retailers who do not sell ciggies. Bearing in mind we are aiming for Smoke-Free in 30 months.

      As the Children's Commissioner points out, poverty, family violence, alcohol are all drivers of this behaviour. Put all the bollards up that you want, it isn't going to solve the problem.

      Sports teams and cultural groups, community organisations, gardening, volunteer work are where the answer is for building self esteem, connection and belonging, empathy and reslience. Even more so, if eating together is part of the equation.

      Maybe schools are a resource for the solution, not to dump this on teachers, they are already carrying a heavy load, but a extra curricula type thing run/funded by MSD .

      • SPC 9.1.1

        Even before that stage the problem is disconnection.

        A few absent from schooling reaches the level required to create an underground of alienated youth

        1. via lockdowns and isolation

        2. moving from home to home because of landlord eviction (unable to pay rent or so the landlord can increase rent via taking in a new tenant)

        3. being stuck in motels, or homelessness (backyards of others in caravans etc).

        without any oversight of the children by schools. The parents may not even know the children are not going to school, or are leaving this until they can find permanent accommodation.

        They connect by their mobiles, their tech toys – which they have to pay for. Thus the need for money to maintain their lord of the flies lifestyle.

        • gsays 9.1.1.1

          It's all so sad.

          Folk on the bottom of the heap, victims of inequality (a by-product of colonialism and neo-liberalism) and used as a political football by those near the top of the hierarchy.

    • Blade 9.2

      More the cart before the donkey again. The money should have gone into regional policing. That said, it's better than nothing. Of course, the gangsters may start bringing steel cutters to the party. The gangs will provide what they need. However, no doubt, that will slow them down with more chances of being caught.

      The Police Minister may not realise putting in bollards is not always straight forward.

      By the time underground cables and access are checked, that 6 million may not go very far.

      https://www.bollardsusa.com/bollards-commonly-asked-questions/

      • gsays 9.2.1

        Following your cart and donkey, with more money for police, I will suggest more, faster ambulances at the precipice base.

        • Blade 9.2.1.1

          I'm talking about targeted spending. 6 million could start Raptor squad.

          As I tried to explain to another poster. Crime must be controlled first before we put massive resources into fighting the causes of crime. In fact we have done that in the past with minimal results

          Now, here's the good news for you, and the bad news for folk like me who are over crime. I'm not hearing the right sounds from National on crime. I'm guessing they will be as woke as the present Labour government.

          Ambulances? Take your pick under National .Mercedes makes a nice model.

          I'm wondering how many houses will be ''shot up'' tonight? Ram Raids? Murder?

          • KJT 9.2.1.1.1

            "Crime must be controlled first before we put massive resources into fighting the causes of crime".

            A nonsensical statement. Repeating it just makes you seem even more confused than the first time you said it.

            But. Joined up thinking is not something that "tough on crime" zealots excel in.

            Which is why cynical right wing politicians, can wind you all up with bullshit to get votes.

            • Blade 9.2.1.1.1.1

              Ok, let's make it simple for you.

              Johnny is down my street smashing letter boxes with a baseball bat. The neighbours and I come out. I call them together and say,'' Is Johnny mentally ill.?'' Someone says, '' his family life seems normal…but who knows.'' Mr Brown say's ''maybe he has issues at school?''

              In the meantime Johnny has smashed 5 more letterboxes and has started to scream at an elderly man,

              Someone suggests talking to him? By this time Johnny has pushed the old man over.

              That is not controlling crime. That is trying to find the cause of Johnny's offending before controlling Johnny's rampage.

              I should have rung the police. Come out with a weapon to defend myself if needed and told Johnny to stop.( factoring in long police attendance times). The neigbours should have done likewise. That way the old man wouldn't have been pushed over and less letterboxes would have been damaged. Johnny would have seen he's out numbered and probably moved on. He would then have been picked up by the police, and the causes of his offending addressed.

              That's about as dumb and as simple as I can make it, KJT.

              • KJT

                Correct.

                Dumb and simple!

              • Incognito

                Come out with a weapon to defend myself if needed and told Johnny to stop.

                FFS! You stay inside rather than rushing out to defend your mailbox and become a target yourself. I’ve had to patch up mailboxes many times and in the end I bolted the thing so well to its post that they couldn’t smash it off (they tried hard). Next, I bought a cheap small box in a boring colour (dark green) and they left it alone, never touched it. Never thought to ring the Police for a mailbox or risk my life for it, which is something books didn’t teach me …

                • Blade

                  Of course you are right. It was a dumbed down exaggerated version for KJT. I was trying to show him what I meant by controlling crime v fixing the causes of crime. And why the cart must come after the donkey. Not before.

                  • Incognito

                    What you meant by “fixing the causes of crime” is being picked up by Police and taken away. That doesn’t fix anything; the mailboxes are smashed up, the old guy has been pushed over, it has all happened, which is why Police can act. Here’s the thing, they cannot act on Johnny before he goes on his rampage. Now, let this sink in and think about before your next comment.

                  • KJT

                    You control crime by addressing the causes. Dimwit.

                    BTW I've already made my ideas clear. Along with a whole lot of references to approaches that have worked to "control crime", from people that have researched it and know what they are talking about. Which you obviously didn't bother to read.

                    I've read hundreds of research papers, commentaries and descriptions, of reducing crime approaches that work. None of the ones that are successful, include arming police, giving police more powers, or imprisoning more people.
                    Or, indeed, attacking someone who is obviously wound up and upset, to protect a letterbox!

                    • Blade

                      Maybe this post from RedLogix may be a better fit for you.

                      ''Incog – I have absolutely no problem with your sentiment here. Understanding and dealing to the underlying issues is essential to preventing a problem.

                      But equally once you have a problem – neither can you ignore the symptoms.''

                      Here's another example:

                      You have gout.

                      Symptoms. – Swollen toe, inflammation and much pain.

                      Cause – Excessive uric acid in the body. Wrong food choices.

                      Treatment: Prescribe anti-inflammatories and Prednisone to take care of the symptoms and help the body.

                      Next – treat the cause. Blood test for uric acid. Long term medication to control uric acid. Dietary help.

                      Got it? angry

                    • KJT

                      Yep. I've got that you have absolutely no comprehension of what the people who have researched crime, and myself, are saying.

      • Incognito 9.2.2

        Hmmm, steel cutters to cut through bollards installed to prevent ram raids … Good luck with that.

        As usual with RW hardliners, they go for simplistic solutions, simplistic criticisms, and always focus on the $$ and find fault somewhere as if to say that they’re the only smart and capable ones and the rest of us are a bunch of woke morons.

        • Blade 9.2.2.1

          Steel Grinder may have been a better term. Not bolt cutters though. A torch would be quicker, but that requires some skill and a bulky cart.

          But all that isn't necessary. You just need something that goes between the bollards to act like a punch. You then ram the punch and achieve your goal. Trust me, master crims aren't dumb like many people think.

          • joe90 9.2.2.1.1

            You just need something that goes between the bollards to act like a punch.

            Bollards are either cast ductile iron or concrete filled steel/SS steel, reinforced with a little rebar dropped down the guts for good measure. If you intend cutting one it's probably best you pack a lance or perhaps one of those flash harry magmafusion jobbies. Or wheel in your own lifting gear and pluck it out. A 3.5 tonner would do it.

          • Incognito 9.2.2.1.2

            You seem to hold them in high regard and again I love your narrative, but anyway, those young people behind the wheel in ram raids are not “master crims”. You make them sound like master minds with a degree in engineering and all that effort for a pack of cigarettes?

            • Blade 9.2.2.1.2.1

              That's not quite right. Many work for gang fences or they work off a patch ( you can buy them now within certain gangs) They are taught the basics by the gangs. Yes, educationally, they are as thick as pig shit. But life has imbued them with a cunning born of survival. I have watched them run rings around middleclass do gooders. Especially social workers.

              Have you ever wondered why some Maori kids have that intense stare? That stare picks up micro expressions that most folk don't perceive. It tells them when a blow may be coming. It tells them when someone is talking shit. It tells them who is weak willed, and who shouldn’t be messed with. They know things books can't teach you.

              ''

              • In Vino

                For the fist time I agree with you, Blade. I think Covid has just forced my retirement from Secondary School teaching. Good comment.

              • Incognito

                ‘kay, we have moved on from planning and executing targeted ram raids by master criminal minds cutting their way through enforced bollards and what-have-you to a whole set of other skills & traits.

                Young people behind the wheel in ram raids have now become “Maori kids”, have they? Of course, these tend to fare poorly in the education system and do poorly in our normative society when they come from families living in a "total state of hopelessness". That’s how some end up behind the wheel.

                However, you’re starting to move to a few important points without realising that you’ve come full-circle today (but not all in this OM) to you wanting to arm Police, Raptor force, and supporting “vigilante action” against those same kids. One size doesn’t fit all but you throw everything on one giant heap with no plan, no vision, and no hope of making any headway and having a positive impact, least of all in the medium-to-long run.

                • Blade

                  I let the present crime situation speak for itself.

                  • Incognito

                    I know you like to keep things simple, so let me ask you a simple question: how many voices do you hear when crime speaks to you? I don’t mean voices in your head or voices on talk-back radio, but more like directions from where the information is coming to you and different types of information.

                    • Blade

                      It comes mainly from attending court and speaking on behalf of young relatives ( through their lawyer) up on charges. Also speaking with their lawyers and Probies.

                      It comes from sitting amongst some of societies worst offenders in the court waiting foyer. That's an experience I wish on no one.

                      It comes from experiencing the environment these offenders come from.

                      But here's the thing. The system is so broke that everyone from the judge down, seems to be going through the motions. The lawyers are jaded, ditto the probies and the admin staff. The amount of paper work to be filled before you leave court is staggering.

                      He's a typical exchange.

                      Judge – Quite a list of offences you have here, Mr Kiwi. I see I dealt with you two years ago. Did I give you any warnings.

                      Kiwi – Yes, judge, You said If you saw me again on similar charges it would be lockup.

                      Judge – Yes, I now see that.

                      Judge – Council or prosecution, have anything to add?

                      Judge – Mr Kiwi, you have pleaded guilty to these charges. I'm putting you down for 18 months with 3 months deducted for time in custody. Stand down.

                      All this goes on like a production line…case after case after case. Hence my ideas on reform and crime.

                    • Incognito []

                      Didn’t know that “societies worst offenders” [sic] were sitting in the foyers among the other riffraff, but my NZ court experience is quite limited.

                      Your ideas on reform and crime are superficial and narrow, in my opinion. They’ve a limited and narrow focus on symptoms and are palliative at best, which you describe without realising it, and have no curative intent.

                    • Puckish Rogue

                      You're not wrong Blade

                    • Blade

                      ''Your ideas on reform and crime are superficial and narrow, in my opinion.''

                      My ideas for controlling crime are very narrow and focused. The objective is simple. Where crime happens stomp on it. Apprehend, harass, jail and create fear among the criminal community.

                      ''They’ve a limited and narrow focus on symptoms and are palliative at best, which you describe without realising it, and have no curative intent.''

                      Now for one curative part of my plan. It should be obvious to all who have thought about crime that it involves the following government departments in some regard: Police, Justice, Winz and Education. All of these organisations are not functioning correctly for a variety of reasons. For example:

                      1- I heard the other day only 52%? of school age children are attending school.

                      2- All those kids caught by police in the act of ram raiding probably won't be charged and will just be referred on. That's 150 kids every one is crowing about because they were caught.

                      3- Winz. Major reform needed. The amount of food grants I saw flashed at the supermarket, even before Covid, was staggering. Of course, the more you know the system, the more you can milk it. And to be fair, some branches are way stricter than others. But beanies soon work out where their best chances are. Of all the non-police departments, Winz needs the most attention.

                      4- Justice. When you have police and judges taking into account cultural considerations for Maori, you know we have a two-tier justice system. That has to stop. The law is the law. Apply it as such.

                      And we still aren't at the stage of helping the offender. Why? Because it would be a waste of time and effort given the laxity of the above.

                      This is how I know National will be another failure on crime. If they were going down this path, Luxon would have to address the nation before the next election in the name of fairness. Because to fix all this up would bring the country into turmoil for a time.

                      It won't happen. Get used to NZ slipping into third would status. In fact we may be there already in some regards.

                    • Incognito []

                      @ Blade, 5:52 pm:

                      Good, now you’re starting to show some real engagement that we can work with here.

                      1. “I heard …”; cannot work with that and is not a suggestion or proposal that’s curative.
                      2. “probably”; cannot work with assumptions and need at least some facts & stats. Not curative either, but just another reckon.
                      3. WINZ always needs work and more attention, which is a little vague. Not sure what your issue is with food grants though. What do you want to change?
                      4. Judge have discretion and I’d be genuinely surprised if sentence is more lenient solely for “cultural considerations”, whatever that means. Do you want non-discretionary sentences for all convictions?

                      Not offering any help to offenders leads to high rates of repeat offending. Rinse, spit, repeat.

                      Very different solutions though than arming Police and shooting violent aggressors in the act.

                    • SPC

                      3- Winz. Major reform needed. The amount of food grants I saw flashed at the supermarket, even before Covid, was staggering. Of course, the more you know the system, the more you can milk it. And to be fair, some branches are way stricter than others. But beanies soon work out where their best chances are. Of all the non-police departments, Winz needs the most attention.

                      If you had been paying attention, you would have noticed the steady rise of rent to income of recent years. The more that is spent on rent, the less available for power (thus the power income supplement) or food – thus greater resort to food banks by working people – not just food grants by those on benefits.

                      As you are a solutions person – I guess it means lowering housing costs. Such as the government buying up 25,000 houses to end the waiting list for state housing (and placing people onto income related, rather than market rents). We can afford it, because the new debt = the new housing asset (and the income from rent covers the government debt cost).

                      And building enough new state homes that the waiting list does not recur. We need at least 100,000 for 5M (we use to have 60,000 for 3M and have little more than that now).

                    • Blade

                      With respect what I mention has been going on for years under different governments. Housing won’t really help. Forcing an attitude readjustment among some Winz clients, would.

                    • SPC

                      So, you admit it, your claim is that welfare (not poverty) is the source of crime.

                      And what exactly is attitude adjustment?

                    • KJT

                      Blades true antisocial ACTiod colours coming to light?

              • joe90

                They know things books can't teach you.

                Because racists know all about them superhuman darkies.

                /

                • Blade

                  I used Maori kids as an example because… well guess why?

                  Pakeha kids brought up in a similar environment would have the same skills set. It's about survival. Culture has little to do with it.

                  ''They know things books can't teach you.''

                  Ever heard of book learning v practical experience?

                  Of course not. You are too busy making me out as racist

                  • KJT

                    I've supported many of our young basement dwellers, the strays my kids adopt, in court. Youngsters in desperate need of help, not punishment.

                    And watched while the efforts of "lock me up and throw away the key" wankers, like you! gets them sent to Ngawha and become permanently lost.

                    You are a racist.

                    Fuck off.

                    • Blade

                      As usual, big on commentary and spite ..short on ideas. And you have the cheek to tell me to F- off.

        • In Vino 9.2.2.2

          Yes – they tend to be swept away by their own wishful thinking. Alf Garnets.

          "Stands to reason, dunnit?"

    • RedLogix 9.3

      Incog – I have absolutely no problem with your sentiment here. Understanding and dealing to the underlying issues is essential to preventing a problem.

      But equally once you have a problem – neither can you ignore the symptoms.

      • Incognito 9.3.1

        Of course, you cannot ignore the symptoms. Dealing with symptoms requires a very different approach and resourcing than dealing with causes and ideally they’re integrated into a cohesive strategy and implemented with clear and firm leadership.

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    The KakaBy Bernard Hickey
    7 days ago
  • Member’s Day
    Today is a Member's Day, the first of the new Parliament. And to start the Parliament off, there's a bunch of first readings. A bunch of other bills have been postponed, so first up is Duncan Webb's District Court (Protecting Judgment Debtors on Main Benefit) Amendment Bill, followed by Katie ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    7 days ago
  • Three Waters go down the legislative gurgler – but what should we make of Local Water Done Well?
    Buzz from the Beehive Local Government Minister Simeon Brown – it seems fair to suppose – was flushed with success after the repeal of Labour’s divisive and unpopular Three Waters legislation. As he explained, repealing this legislation is a necessary first step in implementing his government’s Local Water Done Well ...
    Point of OrderBy Bob Edlin
    7 days ago
  • Gordon Campbell on five of Luxon’s Gaza absurdities
    Earlier this week, PM Christopher Luxon met with 48 public service CEOs to make sure they were on board with his plans to cut spending on public services so that National can proceed to give the revenue away to those New Zealanders least in need. This wasn’t the only absurdity ...
    7 days ago
  • Love and the Fairer Sex.
    This morning I woke early with many thoughts in my head of things said, events of the week, things that matter. I’m afraid none of them involved Seymour, Willis, or Luxon so if you’re looking for something political maybe take the day off and come back tomorrow. You won’t find ...
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  • He stood up to Muldoon and Lange and the Fji army
    Gerald Hensley, who died aged 88 on Saturday, was the key official who presided over the tumultuous events that followed the election of the Lange Labour Government in 1984. He was also instrumental in helping a key Fijian official escape the country during one of the 1987 coups. A diplomat ...
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    1 week ago
  • At a glance – Has Arctic sea ice returned to normal?
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    1 week ago
  • Halo dunia!
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  • The PM wants a turnaround
    As a treat today I have lined up a favourite in the music slot. I love Turnaround, I cannot hear it too often, and I feel in need of a treat when I make myself listen to the Prime Minister the way I did this morning.He too, has favourites that ...
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    1 week ago
  • The PM wants a turnaround
    As a treat today I have lined up a favourite in the music slot. I love Turnaround, I cannot hear it too often, and I feel in need of a treat when I make myself listen to the Prime Minister the way I did this morning.He too, has favourites that ...
    More than a fieldingBy David Slack
    1 week ago
  • ELE LUDEMANN: Trusting locals
    Ele Ludemann writes- A government-knows-best and predilection for central control was another unfortunate feature of the 2017-2023 Labour governments. One of the worst polices as a result of that was what started as Three Waters and became several more. The National-led government is much more trusting of locals ...
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    1 week ago

  • Greater support for social workers
    The Coalition Government is enhancing the professionalism of the social work sector and supporting the vulnerable people who rely on them, Social Development and Employment Minister Louise Upston says.  The Social Workers Registration Legislation Amendment Bill passed its third reading in Parliament today. It amends the Social Workers Registration Legislation ...
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    16 hours ago
  • Government delivers greater freedom and choice for sick New Zealanders
    The coalition government is delivering on its commitment to making principled decisions by getting rid of red tape that doesn’t make sense and allowing sick New Zealanders greater freedom and choice to purchase effective cold and flu medicines. A bill amending the Misuse of Drugs Act 1975 is being introduced, and changes to the Medicines ...
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    23 hours ago
  • Government begins reset of welfare system
    The Coalition Government is taking early action to curb the surge in welfare dependency that occurred under the previous government by setting out its expectations around employment and the use of benefit sanctions, Social Development and Employment Minister Louise Upston says. In 2017, 60,588 sanctions were applied to beneficiaries who ...
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    2 days ago
  • State of the Nation
    Ka nui te mihi kia koutou. Kia ora, good morning, talofa, malo e lelei, bula vinaka, da jia hao, namaste, sat sri akal, assalamu alaikum. Thank you for coming to my first State of the Nation as Prime Minister. Thank you for coming to a speech where I don’t just ...
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    3 days ago
  • West Coast tourism attractions officially open
    Regional Development Minister Shane Jones will attend the official opening of two highly anticipated tourism projects on the West Coast today – Pike29 Memorial Track, dedicated to the memory of the Pike River miners, and Pounamu Pathway. “The Pike29 Memorial Track is a way to remember and honour the men ...
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    5 days ago
  • Independent ferry service advisory group in place
    Appointments to the Ministerial Advisory Group tasked with providing independent advice and assurance on the future of KiwiRail’s inter-island ferry service have been made, State Owned Enterprises Minister Paul Goldsmith says. “It’s important for New Zealand that KiwiRail is focused on ensuring safe, resilient, and reliable ferry services over the ...
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    6 days ago
  • Joint statement from the Prime Ministers of Australia, Canada, and New Zealand
    The Prime Ministers of Australia, Canada and New Zealand today issued the following statement on reports of Israel’s planned military operation in Rafah. We are gravely concerned by indications that Israel is planning a ground offensive into Rafah.   A military operation into Rafah would be catastrophic. About 1.5 million Palestinians ...
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    6 days ago
  • Govt will deliver on expanded breast screening
    The coalition Government has made the first steps in delivering on its promise to  extend free breast screening to women aged 70-74, Health Minister Shane Reti says. “As part of the 100 day plan, the Government has now met with officials and discussed what is needed in order for the ...
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    6 days ago
  • Government announces woolshed roadshows in support of sheep farmers
    The Government celebrates National Lamb Day (15 February 24) and congratulates sheep farmers on the high-quality products they continue to produce. Agriculture Minister McClay hosted bipartisan celebrations of National Lamb Day with industry representatives at Parliament this week to mark the anniversary of the first frozen lamb exports that left ...
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    6 days ago
  • Speech: Address to the NZ Economics Forum
    It’s great to be back at the New Zealand Economics Forum. I would like to acknowledge everyone here today for your expertise and contribution, especially the Pro Vice-Chancellor, Head of the Waikato Management School, economists, students and experts alike. A year has passed since I was last before you, and ...
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  • Government tackling high construction costs
    The Government is focused on reducing sky-high construction costs to make it more affordable to build a home, Building and Construction Minister Chris Penk says.  Stats NZ data shows the cost of building a house has increased by 41 per cent since 2019, making housing even more unaffordable for Kiwi ...
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    6 days ago
  • Labour’s Three Waters legislation repealed
    The Coalition Government’s legislative plan to address longstanding issues with local water infrastructure and service delivery took an important step today, with the repeal of Labour’s divisive and unpopular Three Waters legislation, Local Government Minister Simeon Brown says. “Repealing this legislation is a necessary first step in implementing our Local ...
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    7 days ago
  • Cost of living support for beneficiary households
    The Coalition Government is delivering on its commitment to ease the cost-of-living by increasing main benefit rates in line with inflation and ensuring the Minimum Family Tax Credit threshold remains aligned with this change, Social Development and Employment Minister Louise Upston says. The Social Security (Benefits Adjustment) and Income Tax ...
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    7 days ago
  • Government announces agriculture delegations to better support Primary sector
    The coalition Government has announced ministerial delegations to support key areas across the Primary sector to deliver for New Zealand’s food and fibre sector, Agriculture Minister Todd McClay announced today. “I will be supported in my roles as Minister of Agriculture, Trade, Forestry and Hunting and Fishing, by three Associate ...
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    1 week ago
  • Waikato MoU reinforces Govt’s commitment to increase NZ doctors
    The Government has taken an important step forward in addressing a critical shortage of New Zealand-trained doctors, with today’s signing of a Memorandum of Understanding for a third medical school, Minister of Health Dr Shane Reti has announced.  “Today’s signing by the Ministry of Health and the University of Waikato ...
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    1 week ago
  • Speech – Lunar New Year 2024
    Annyeonghaseyo, greetings and welcome all. It is my pleasure as the Minister for Ethnic Communities to welcome you to the first Lunar New Year Event in Parliament. Thank you to our emcees for greeting us in the different languages that represent the many cultures that celebrate the Lunar New Year. ...
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    1 week ago
  • More funding to Hawke’s Bay and Tairāwhiti
    Urgent work to clean-up cyclone-affected regions will continue, thanks to a $63 million boost from the Government for sediment and debris removal in Hawke’s Bay and Tairāwhiti.                                                                                                   The funding will help local councils continue urgent work removing and disposing of sediment and debris left from Cyclone Gabrielle.   “This additional ...
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    1 week ago
  • Budget will be delivered on 30 May
    Plans to deliver tax relief to hard-working New Zealanders, rebuild business confidence and restore the Crown’s finances to order will be unveiled on 30 May, Finance Minister Nicola Willis says. The plans will be announced in the Budget which is currently being developed by Ministers.  “The last government’s mismanagement of ...
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    1 week ago
  • Government advances Local Water Done Well
    The Coalition Government is continuing work to restore council ownership and control of water assets by repealing Three Waters and appointing a Technical Advisory Group to provide expert advice on the implementation of Local Water Done Well, Local Government Minister Simeon Brown says. “The Government will pass a bill to ...
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    1 week ago
  • New diplomatic appointments
    Foreign Minister Winston Peters has today announced five new diplomatic appointments.  "Strong and effective diplomacy to protect and advance our interests in the world is needed now more than ever," Mr Peters says.  “We are delighted to appoint senior diplomats from the Ministry of Foreign Affairs and Trade to these ...
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    2 weeks ago
  • Speech to the Committee for Auckland
    It is great to be here today at this event as Minister for Auckland and Minister ofTransport. Let me start by acknowledging each one of you and thanking the Committee forAuckland for hosting this event and inviting me to speak here today. The Committee for Auckland has been a symbol ...
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    2 weeks ago
  • Getting Transport Back on Track in Auckland
    Transport Minister Simeon Brown has today confirmed his high-level transport priorities for Auckland, in the lead up to releasing the draft Government Policy Statement on Land Transport. “Our economic growth and productivity are underpinned by a transport network that enables people and freight to move around safely and efficiently. At ...
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    2 weeks ago
  • Government to axe Auckland Regional Fuel Tax
    Transport Minister Simeon Brown has confirmed that the Auckland Regional Fuel Tax will end on 30 June 2024. “Today, I can confirm that the Government has agreed to remove the Auckland Regional Fuel Tax in line with our coalition commitments, and legislation will be introduced to parliament to repeal the ...
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    2 weeks ago
  • Minister Calls for Work to Tackle Kina Barrens
    Changes to fishing rules and a significant science programme are being undertaken to address kina barrens, says Minister for Oceans and Fisheries Shane Jones. “There has been tremendous interest from iwi, communities and recreational fishers who had raised concerns about such kina infestations being a major threat to Northland’s marine ...
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    2 weeks ago
  • Government law and order crackdown begins
    The coalition Government is making good on its promise to restore law and order by removing government funding for Section 27 reports and abolishing the previous Labour Government’s prison reduction target, Justice Minister Paul Goldsmith and Corrections Minister Mark Mitchell say.  “In recent years, the development of Section 27 reports ...
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    2 weeks ago
  • Greater focus on getting people into work
    The coalition government will refocus employment efforts and the welfare system so that supporting people who can work into jobs is the number one priority, Social Development and Employment Minister Louise Upston says. “Of concern in the labour market statistics released by Stats NZ today was the number of youth not ...
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    2 weeks ago
  • One year on, NZ appeals for release of Phillip Mehrtens
    Foreign Minister Winston Peters has appealed to those holding New Zealand pilot Phillip Mehrtens in remote Papua, Indonesia, to release him immediately.  Phillip Mehrtens was taken hostage a year ago on 7 February in Paro, Papua, while providing vital air links and supplies to remote communities. “We strongly urge those holding ...
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    2 weeks ago
  • Ministers reaffirm Pacific connections this week
    Foreign Minister Winston Peters and Health Minister and Minister for Pacific Peoples Dr Shane Reti are reaffirming the importance of New Zealand’s connections to the Pacific by visiting Tonga, Cook Islands and Samoa this week.  “New Zealand enjoys strong and long-standing relationships with our Pacific partners - especially in Polynesia, where we ...
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    2 weeks ago
  • Rt Hon Christopher Luxon – Waitangi speech
    E ngā mana, e ngā reo, e ngā iwi, rau rangatira ma. Tēnā koutou katoa. He tino mihi ki te mana whenua o tēnei rohe.  Mihi mai, mihi mai, mihi mai. Te whare e tū nei, tēnā koe.                               He-wāhi whakahirahira tēnei mō Aotearoa. Ka huri nga whakaaro, ki nga mate. ...
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    2 weeks ago
  • Government awards primary sector scholarships to students
    Six university students studying agriculture and science have been awarded scholarships as part of the coalition Government’s efforts to boost on-the-ground support for farmers and growers. “The coalition Government is committed to improving support and operating conditions for farmers and growers,” Agriculture Minister Todd McClay says. “We’re backing a range ...
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    2 weeks ago
  • High Court Judge appointed
    Attorney-General Judith Collins today announced the appointment of Wellington Barrister Jason Scott McHerron as a High Court Judge. Justice McHerron graduated from the University of Otago with a BA in English literature in 1994 and an LLB in 1996. From 1996 to 1999 he worked as a solicitor in the ...
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    3 weeks ago
  • New Zealand provides further humanitarian support to Gaza and the West Bank
    Foreign Minister Winston Peters has announced that New Zealand is providing a further $5 million to respond to the extreme humanitarian need in Gaza and the West Bank.  “The impact of the Israel-Hamas conflict on civilians is absolutely appalling,” Mr Peters says.  “That is why New Zealand has contributed $15 ...
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    3 weeks ago
  • Government consults on expanding COVID-19 Inquiry terms of reference
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    3 weeks ago
  • Tai Tokerau Water Boost
    A further $5 million loan has been advanced to the Tai Tokerau Water Trust for Te Waihekeora Reservoir, Regional Development Minister Shane Jones says.  “Water is a precious resource, Kānoa – Regional Development and Investment Unit at the Ministry of Business, Innovation, and Employment have done amazing work in the ...
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    3 weeks ago
  • Fast track consenting in the fast lane
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    3 weeks ago
  • JOINT STATEMENT ON AUSTRALIA-NEW ZEALAND MINISTERIAL CONSULTATIONS (ANZMIN) 2024
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    3 weeks ago
  • Minimum wage set for cautious increase
    The adult minimum wage rate will increase by 2 per cent to $23.15 an hour from 1 April 2024, Workplace Relations and Safety Minister Brooke van Velden announced today. “This Government is committed to striking the right balance between protecting the incomes of our lowest paid workers and maintaining labour ...
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    3 weeks ago
  • Increased security improves ED safety over summer
    Increasing the number of security staff in emergency departments (EDs) over the busy Christmas and New Year period improved the safety of both staff and patients, Health Minister Dr Shane Reti says. 200 additional security staff (93 FTEs) were provided to 32 EDs in response to concerns raised by ED ...
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    3 weeks ago

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