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Open mike 26/08/2020

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, August 26th, 2020 - 172 comments
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172 comments on “Open mike 26/08/2020 ”

  1. gsays 1

    I didn't realise this was being considered, but I am relieved to find out the private sale of fireworks hasn't been outlawed.

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/122492350/private-sale-of-fireworks-wont-be-banned-after-proposal-rejected-by-mps

    Passfire is a term pyros use for moving flame. From the fuse to the lift charge on the ground, to the shell containing effects in the sky. Passfire is also the name of a movie celebrating firework culture around the globe. Worth a look to see some of the joy that pyrotechnics brings.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=igVxI24F9yA

    This is a trailer for an up coming series; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1LOLYq1HW-w

    • sumsuch 1.1

      I think freedom should include fireworks and seatbelts. While believing in strong democratic government.

  2. Descendant Of Smith 2

    Oh no the well off have lost their cheap child-care labour and now have to pay New Zealanders proper wages.

    "Dream Au Pair usually manages 600 au pairs around the country, but now only has 15 – all of which are expected to leave in the next few months."

    They want au pairs to be classed as "essential workers".

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/life-style/parenting/122539891/coronavirus-parents-struggle-as-hundreds-of-au-pairs-leave-nz

    and in case you are wondering what the difference between a nanny and an au pair is:

    https://www.aupair.com/en/p-au-pair-nanny.php

    • Ad 2.1

      Covid19s effects aren't smoothing class structures here.

      They are making them much stronger.

      There are thousands of women who are now unemployed or underemployed. The 1% should employ more New Zealanders, and these look like good roles to get compared to the pay of most car workers.

      • Descendant Of Smith 2.1.1

        Aye. There's plenty of opportunity to employ laid off and unemployed NZer's but of course they aren't as cheap.

      • Sabine 2.1.2

        childcare and cleaning rich peoples houses obviously is something for unemployed women to do, right? No man need apply, they get shovel ready jobs, women get to clean other peoples toilets.

        Oh my, the generosity.

        • Ad 2.1.2.1

          You are such a coarse thinker.

          Au Pairs are almost 100% female. Just the way it is.

          Any time you want to come and do some heavy infrastructure work Sabine, let us know.

          • Sabine 2.1.2.1.1

            i was an au pair and boys also can be au pair. That has long been changed. I am not coarse thinker, i just say the parts that you are uncomfortable with out loud. And sometimes you know, reality is coarse 🙂

            Btw, i was an au pair, i got that way to France and ended up living there for about 10 years. Two boys, fairly well of to do family from Germany. Living in Super Cannes right above Vallauris. In fact that is what got me as a stray teenager of the road, work with accommodation attached. I was just lucky that it took me to the South of France, i was paid 1000$ a month, worked 6 days a week at Nannying, cooking, ironing, cleaning the toilets and had sunday off. So very last century and the only reason most Au pair do this is because it takes them to a different country, one where they might never go to on their own. Just saying, before you explain Au Pair to me in detail.

            And yes, housekeeping – involves cleaning toilets. But hey, they will get paid minimum wage right 🙂 all these poor dear unemployed female that so far no one gives a flying fudge about.
            https://www.aupair.com/en/p-male-au-pair.php
            ” Au Pair is not a gender restricted job, so it is possible for boys to find a place in a Host Family. The truth is that it can take much longer for a male Au Pair to be placed, but some families are looking exactly for an elder brother for the kids.

            • Ad 2.1.2.1.1.1

              Boys generally don't get hired as au pairs, so the reverse sexism you propose is trite.

              No, they get a bunch more than minimum wage – and clearly you know the difference yourself.

              • Sabine

                Did you read the article that i just posted. Boys don't get hired easily, but are hired by family who want to hire boys. Boys can be Au Pair Boys.

                Seriously, dude, It ain't reverse sexism, it literally is something that happens. I have met boy Au pairs. The only sexist that i see here is you.

                You were wrong. bye now.

                • sumsuch

                  House slaves and field slaves. I'm a house slave myself. I hope, come the revolution, I'll put aside my social culture and fight for the field slaves, despite their social culture.

            • Muttonbird 2.1.2.1.1.2

              It's gone all "Lifestyles of the Rich and Famous" in here.

              Back on track, people.

        • Descendant Of Smith 2.1.2.2

          I'm pretty sure I said "unemployed NZer's" not women so I'm not sure why you would suggest something different to what I said.

          If you have an issue with only/mainly women doing that work take that up with the people who employ them. Besides that wasn't the point of my post – the point was about the fact they are lamenting the loss of their "cheap" overseas labour and want them deemed essential.

        • Austringer 2.1.2.3

          tion cheep the women, the men more about cheep. Sex our humanity human should not be allowed the exploitation that is here on our place our human world.

      • Muttonbird 2.1.3

        There's no way the 1% are going to let Maori women into their homes, much less near their offspring.

        • Ad 2.1.3.1

          I know some who do. It's a skilled job.

        • Sabine 2.1.3.2

          White women need not apply to clean the shitters of the rich? Oh dear…….

        • greywarshark 2.1.3.3

          I wondered about that Muttonbird. There is the barrier of the bad publicity heard for decades. If there was an Academy for Maori Nannies and Au Pairs which had good standards, the Certification would give certainty.

      • RedBaronCV 2.1.4

        We should be looking to ways to onshore some more of the customer call centre (Spark! and the other Telco's, insurance companiies and power companies) and other processing tha has gone offshore. If we pay the bills here we should have the jobs here!

        It would give a better variety of jobs.

        • Sabine 2.1.4.1

          And put them elsewhere then Auckland. There is no reason why Morrinsville, or Tokoroa could not house a call centre.

          • RedBaronCV 2.1.4.1.1

            We should shift them out of Auckland even now, Dunedin could benefit from something like that ( as well as provincial towns) good mix of students and older people.

            • Sabine 2.1.4.1.1.1

              Should have done this when the housing crisis started to become the new normal in Auckland at the latest.

              Gisborne, Dunedin, Invercargill, Toks, Taupo, Rotorua etc all are good places for some call centres or even gasp Government offices.

              And it would take the pressure of Auckland re infrastructure, housing, schools etc.

              Not gonna happen tho, not unless there is a will to legislate.

              • Patricia Bremner

                I have to agree with you here Sabine. Rotorua used to have the branch or main offices of Doc, Tax, Maori Land Court…..slowly removed by BEnglish/Key's minions.

              • Draco T Bastard

                Business won't move into a town unless the infrastructure is there to support them. Most of the towns you listed simply don't have that infrastructure and so, if the government wants business to move there, they're going to have to build the infrastructure – and I'm not talking about roads.

    • RedBaronCV 2.2

      That was shocking journalism from Stuff. No mention of the terms and conditions which are massively exploitive- third world in fact. They should enquire further not just regurgitate what they are told by the owner of the business.

      Looking at the site NZ has one of the highest allowable working hours a week at 40 hours for suggested pocket money of $150 to $200 per week. so $3-$5 per hour for a full time job plus the board and lodging. I assume that no tax is paid on the pocket money or the assessed value of the lodgings although other taxpayers fork out.

      Most of the other countries have very part time hours and better pay rates- so at least au pairs have some spare time for the the local culture.

      Time the over entitled paid a proper wage – even if only part time.

      • Sabine 2.2.1

        +1

        most Au pair if done correctly work about 20 – 25 hours a week.

        I was one in 1992 – and i got a 1000$ per month, plus accom, etc. It was a good deal then, considering that they paid the flights to and home, etc. w

        40 hours per week is indeed exploitation, but again if you are 18 and want to come here it is a worthwhile deal. They pay the flight to and from which is several thousands of dollars depending on where you come from, and you get a visa that the host family will also pay. That is to keep in mind. Au pair is not really a job that one does as a career option, it is an opportunity to see the world while literally having no skills.

    • Draco T Bastard 2.3

      Ah, so the au-pair is, essentially, slave labour.

      Obviously needs to be made illegal.

      • RedBaronCV 2.3.1

        Yes maximum exploitation. Or the conditions that the visa is issued under need to limit hours to say 10 a week so it genuinely is just a cross cultural largely holiday thing.

        Either way I would not consider them a priority class of inwards migrant. Would also be very interested in knowing what the fees being charged by the arranging organisations are – .

        But having known people who have done childcare some employers do take advantage

        • greywarshark 2.3.1.1

          If young people can travel the world before they settle down and know that they can get part paid for even on low wages then it's good for both.

          Hours not too long, bed board okay, then it's a working holiday. The Woofers accept that too, and young people from all over the world get to meet and see other countries.

          https://wwoof.nz/how-it-works/

  3. Treetop 3

    I would like business owners to be able to get free consultancy as it has got to the stage where a business may no longer be able to stay afloat.

    Covid brings uncertainty and it is disruptive and for some a decision to fold the business is a hard reality.

    • Sabine 3.1

      Honestly we need more then free consultancy. I consulted the crystal bowl, and i see lots of empty town ships devoid of people because unemployment, starvation rates in our benefits system and no stability in which to run your business.

      We need a better definition of who is essential and can work through which levels.

      Case: two days ago all the banks in AKL closed.

      Why? Because suddenly they were told they are not essential and thus need to close during level 3, however they were open and classified as essential last time during Level 4. But maybe current Level 3 is just Level 4 hiding. Who knows.

      But the banks are closed now until at least Sunday. For those that want to say INTERNET and we don't need no open banks, not everyone has internet, some only have internet via a Library which are also closed.

      It is a small thing, but who can be open and who can not. How to open. Etc.

      The hairdresser next to me took three month to work of the debt accumulated during the last lockdown until she could open up. She was busy – as expected – right after opening but now it has dropped off and with every closed business she and others like her in town are loosing business, one persona a time.

      But unless she experiences a 40% drop in business she ain't getting no help other then a loan that she will have to pay back after a year. Generally i have no issues with that either, but she literally got herself a loan so that next time she needs to close for 8 – 12 weeks she can pay the bills for the shop cause the wage subsidy (if it still exists then) was not enough to pay the bills at home for her and her boy. Yes, she is a single mum.

      Disclaimer: This is not to slag the PM, but it is to point out that we need governance now as this is going to stay with us for a few years, and businesses need to be able to plan ahead. And one of the big question is: Will i be open. or better, under what lock down restrictions can i open safely.

      And frankly the wage subsidy set at 40% loss of revenue, lol, at that stage businesses start talking about closing shop and joining the unemployment queue.

      • Gabby 3.1.1

        Were the banks told they weren't essential, or did they grab the opportunity to continue with their march towards tellerless service?

        • Sabine 3.1.1.1

          Nope they did NOT GRAB anything.

          My partner fixes ATMs and such, Banks were considered essential service under the last lockdown and worked under Level 4 for exactly the reasons i mentioned above, not everyone has access to internet and/or is set up for internet banking, and the few businesses that do work will also still need banking services.

          However, and this was very surprising to us on Monday a directive came from the government that they are NOT essential and must close. Banks now in Auckland closed since Monday and will open again with drop to level two. And i know about this, because it reduced the work load for the engineers in Auckland that look after these machines.

          Seriously people, stop pretending that it is the businesses that are screwing up, we are trying to function with the information form the government that we get and not with the information that we need.

          This is government. Not the banks, nor the businesses. If the government changes its mind and tells you to close shop, you close shop. How hard is this to understand, considering that shops are closed in AKl, and are closing down for good up and down the country side?

          • greywarshark 3.1.1.1.1

            Banks being told to close down and all emphasis being put on on-line transactions! This comes out of the tiny mind of some half-man of O who knows nothing about life, and everything about facilitating machine control of society including his/her own job. That seems all people are taught these days.

            We have to close them down because they are not providing essential services! That is how to live our lives at a basic level and being able to access all that we need wherever possible.

            HalfMen of O – Two youngsters are sent to help people being over-run by these dangerous characters.
            They are summoned to the beautiful land of O in a last-ditch attempt to save the planet from cruel Otis Claw and his followers, the evil Halfmen, who have lost every trace of human goodness and kindness.
            https://www.penguin.com.au/books/halfmen-of-o-9780143318347

            Are we in a nation-wide filmset and don't even know it? I hope someone is documenting all this – it's better than Game of Thrones except not much nudity and the clothing is more mundane.

        • Sabine 3.1.1.2

          Also the march to tellerless service – aka automation – is pretty much the future now specially with covid.

          And again this too is not only banks, but supermarkets, gas stations, and so on and so forth. Have you heard of online shopping?

          • Gabby 3.1.1.2.1

            I may have heard tell of it, from a mysterious traveller who appeared in our midst and partook of our victuals, sharing a tale of dark market forces at large beyond the Shire before vanishing whence he came. Or it might have been on the radio.

        • Sabine 3.1.1.3

          ah, obviuosly the Government re-thougth and re-decided that banks are an essential service.

          Can't make that shit up.

          https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=12359535

          of course its behind the pay wall.

          Jacinda Ardern's office had to step in to help resolve an apparent botch-up over whether bank branches could open under the current alert level 3 in Auckland. On Sunday Dr Ashley Bloomfield, director general of Health, rejected an application for banks to be granted an exemption under the Covid-19 Public Health Response Order, which would have explicitly permitted bank branches to open with limited face-to-face contact with customers.

          Throughout last week, banks had been nervous that they were operating outside the Ministry of Health's order, with the sector not included in a group of businesses which could operate face to face with customers under alert level 3.

          The Ministry of Health order appeared to contradict information on the Ministry of Business, Innovation and Employment (MBIE) website which suggested branches could open with social distancing.

          snip

          We were made aware by banks that they had closed their Auckland branches due to not being granted an exemption from the Ministry of Health to trade under level 3," a spokeswoman for the Prime Minister said. "We need New Zealanders to be able to access money and bank services and we are aware that for many people this is done via a bank branch. So officials discussed the matter and the director general of health signed an exemption yesterday afternoon."

          Why banks were not included in the original order was unclear last night. MBIE, the Reserve Bank and the Ministry of Health variously referred questions to each other about the issue on Tuesday.

          Seriously they need to get their stories straight, then they need to set binding rules, no of this weasely no accountabilty schmuck of 'can do, should do, bullshit' but rules. Proper rules.

          • greywarshark 3.1.1.3.1

            It may be that Dr Bloomfield needs a short break (a day!) as while he has kept up the pressure on medical matters and society but he has kept it on himself for so long. Possibly the micro-management is getting to him and his staff, and their needs to be someone to step in and point out that banks aren't just any business, they are at the root of business and vital to us all in our present financial system.

        • RedBaronCV 3.1.1.4

          It's high time a banking licence came with some service requirements rather that tellers pointing at bug ridden machines. Banking is a nightmare even every day transactions are now very difficult to complete.

          • Sabine 3.1.1.4.1

            what has that got to do with the blunder at hand of declaring them essential then not essential then essential again?

            And funny, there is a lot of people out there that like the bug ridden machine rather then a human cause 'its faster'. 🙂

            • RedBaronCV 3.1.1.4.1.1

              3.1.1.1 commented on bank service levels. Not directly related to the essential bit as such – but outside the larger centre's and even within them – on the ground banking services whether teller or automated have diminished sharply. Not every one has the internet / skills but the banks are disenfranchising or privileging some groups over others with the dash to internet and automation only. But that is another day. BTW the machines certainly don't do every thing – I've had an interesting time completing some transactions.

              • Sabine

                But that is another day. BTW the machines certainly don't do every thing – I've had an interesting time completing some transactions.

                oh what was it, tell me all about it. 🙂 My partner fixes these darn machines and i am sure could tell you exactly what went wrong.

                • greywarshark

                  Calm down Sabine. You are right that it's damn hard to cope with, daft moves from government on top of the controls that are needed.

                • RedBaronCV

                  It's off topic but it needed a bank cheque from a teller (otherwise I'd have had to track cash around.) And there are ATM's that only give out $50 notes – no 20's so if you don't have a lot of money you might be stuffed. And like it or not transaction timings and transferability between banks has diminished for a number of transactions and locations. No the government didn't need to create the confusion over the banks but please don't take it out on me with sarcasm when there are other people with different experiences of the use and availability of banking services.
                  The security or otherwise can also be questioned. Banks get hacked.

      • Draco T Bastard 3.1.2

        Case: two days ago all the banks in AKL closed.

        Why? Because suddenly they were told they are not essential and thus need to close during level 3, however they were open and classified as essential last time during Level 4.

        Bank premises aren't essential as everything that anybody needs to do with the bank can be done online. I haven't been inside a bank in more than ten years.

        But the banks are closed now until at least Sunday. For those that want to say INTERNET and we don't need no open banks, not everyone has internet, some only have internet via a Library which are also closed.

        Those people need to join the 21st century and they've just received a lesson as to why.

        Generally i have no issues with that either, but she literally got herself a loan so that next time she needs to close for 8 – 12 weeks she can pay the bills for the shop cause the wage subsidy (if it still exists then) was not enough to pay the bills at home for her and her boy.

        And now you know the problem of ownership. After all, the capitalist needs to have their income from their assets even though they're not being used right?

        • greywarshark 3.1.2.1

          Yes DTB you are so logical, from your own POV which isn't one that reflects what is good for most people in the short and long run in my opinion.

          • Draco T Bastard 3.1.2.1.1

            Most people are already doing business online and so keeping shops open for the few who refuse to move out of the past is just getting more and more expensive per use as economies of scale keep dropping and it doesn't provide any societal value.

        • lprent 3.1.2.2

          I vaguely remember going into a bank in 2012.

          I shifted my mortgage from ANZ to BNZ using phone and internet while I was working out of a hotel in Singapore in 2018. Did the same for getting a car loan during the lockdown in April.

          I could have done both using phone and mail. It was an option offered. It just takes longer.

        • Macro 3.1.2.3

          I myself have not been to a bank in some years, and do all my banking online as well, but that does not mean that banking is not an essential service. Consider the essential services such as dairies, supermarkets, and petrol stations. Cash is still a valid form of currency, as far as I recall. Those places might have a decent amount of cash on hand at anyone time, and will need to deposit or exchange notes and coin. It is for this reason more than any other that banks need to remain open as businesses carrying large amounts of cash can become targets for robbery.

          • Draco T Bastard 3.1.2.3.1

            Cash is still a valid form of currency, as far as I recall.

            For now but for how much longer?

            Store refuses to take cash payment

            And I can recall the half hour or so of lost time taking the cash to the bank at the end of the day. Cash is expensive in so many ways never mind the increased threat of theft..

            Those places might have a decent amount of cash on hand at anyone time, and will need to deposit or exchange notes and coin. It is for this reason more than any other that banks need to remain open as businesses carrying large amounts of cash can become targets for robbery.

            Their's probably some way that the bank could take the cash while keeping their stores closed. Armourguard or similar.

            • McFlock 3.1.2.3.1.1

              The demise of legal tender is not something which I anticipate fondly, either as a customer or as someone who is occasionally involved in customer service.

              Many's the time my arse has gotten home thanks to a sneaky $20 folded into the battery compartment of my cellphone. shit happens.

              • Draco T Bastard

                A couple of decades ago I would have agreed with you but I haven't carried cash in 15+ years. A time or two I've had to pull out my phone and transfer money across from my savings account into my on-call account so I could use EFT-POS.

                I also have my HOP card so I can move around (don't own a car) which will work if it has some money on it when I get on the bus.

                • McFlock

                  So you don't need it, therefore no worries, huh.

                  Cash is tactile, solid. Not abstract, not dependant on a fibre cable or the stores power supply, but portable and with no fees for use. Even the cash run can be done during quiet times when you'd be paying someone to stand around, anyway.

                  I'll miss it.

                  • Draco T Bastard

                    So you don't need it, therefore no worries, huh.

                    No, nobody needs it.

                    The problem is that some people want it but in a global pandemic those people become dangerous to others.

                    The fees are an issue but the solution to that is the government going full cashless, as I've mentioned before.

                    I'll miss it.

                    I won't – horrible stuff.

                    • McFlock

                      Beggars in the street don't usually carry eftpos machines, so if they want to eat, they need cash from strangers.

                      Someone who is blind can easily count well-designed cash. Not sure how they know that the cashier has accidentally overcharged them on the eftpos terminal.

                      I'm sure your utopia will be wonderful for everyone, but cash is disappearing by itself, not as part of a broader scheme to improve society.

                      As for the dangers of cash, get a grip.

                • lprent

                  …but I haven’t carried cash in 15+ years.

                  The only place I carry cash is when I’m outside of NZ. I just had to get a new wallet because the old one fell apart after 20 years. The old one was a leather wallet for holding business cards. It was perfect for holding eftpos cards, credit cards, access cards for buildings and no cash. Turns out that leather rots if you’re working outside in Singapore for 5 months and have it in your sweaty pocket.

                  I’ve just replaced it with a Bellroy card holder. That is exactly the right size for what I usually carry.

                  • McFlock

                    I'm working on making my own – two external card slots for bus and staff card, internal compartments for various debit and business cards. Made a prototype, just finished a revised design.

                    Fun wee project for these times.

        • weka 3.1.2.4

          Not everyone has a phone or internet.

          Shops need to bank the cash they take in through their till.

          • Draco T Bastard 3.1.2.4.1

            Not everyone has a phone or internet.

            And they have absolutely no excuse for that. The inevitable demise of shops has been obvious for decades. As long as the internet's been around in fact.

            The fact that nearly all business can now be done online should have been a clue for them.

            Society isn't going to hold still just because a few people want to stay in the 19th century.

            • Drowsy M. Kram 3.1.2.4.1.1

              In my world no-one has to choose between food and a smart phone+plan, but I can't help wondering – as neat as they are, just how tasty is a smart phone?

              Businesses that are prepared to humour this luddite will continue to receive my custom until such time as they decide it's not a sufficiently profitable way to operate. Btw, if it's inconvenient that your immensely profitable bank is phasing out cheques, then switch to a bank that still supports them – easy as.

              • Pat

                easy as…IF you have someone to assist you.

                Not everyone does

                • Drowsy M. Kram

                  I don’t like change, but have switched or been morphed a few times without special assistance (Post Office Savings Bank –> PostBank –> Lloyds –> Trust Bank Central –> Westpac –> TSB –> TSB/Kiwibank/[PSIS –> Cooperative]) – admittedly my banking needs are simple.

                  https://www.nzba.org.nz/consumer-information/smarter-banking/switching-banks/

                  https://www.nerdwallet.com/article/banking/savings/how-to-switch-banks

                • Pat

                  Its contagious

                  • Incognito

                    Some are vulnerable to infection, some aren’t 😉

                    • Pat

                      Methinks you miss the point….there is all sorts of advice, govt services and help. medical assistance etc….ONLINE.

                      Indeed increasingly almost exclusively online.

                    • Incognito []

                      I did get your point and added to it that banks are aware of these and other issues with accessibility and offer a wide range of assistance. I would also add that the degree of inconvenience for customers who are not on-line is likely to increase over time. I do have personal experience with people being ‘off-line’, for all intents and purposes, and there no easy answers. I also know what it is like not using a mobile phone 🙂

                    • lprent []

                      I know how to fix the reply button now. There is however some annoying testing I have to do to make sure that fix isn’t worse isn’t worse than the original problem on a range of devices. It is a javascript issue, in this case the plugin using an older JQuery system that has been obsoleted.

                      It will be the weekend before I can get to it.

                    • McFlock

                      Thing is, there's a law of decreasing returns that banks and online businesses (and covid app designers) will do the easy thing that hits almost everyone, and those outside the "almost" are buggered unless they make a big song and dance about having a need that the media can paint as "deserving".

                      Cash is just one of the things. It's cheaper to close stores and branches, so if someone wants to touch something before buying it, they're fucked. My local uni decided nowhere on campus will accept cash, none of their cafes, stores or whathaveyou. Fuck those guys.

                      Getting my mail is a bugger, because they closed the branch so if a parcel needs to be signed for then the box lobby is staffed half a day and forget about weekends. Get it delivered to my home? If the courier doesn't leave it to get nicked, they tap on the door then run like buggery so I have to find the depot.

                      Oh, I'm sure it's all fine for almost everyone else, but I'm noting quite a lot of "my way or the highway" bullshit from enterprises that theoretically want me to pay for their shit. It's almost like some of these industries are cabals or monopolies…

            • weka 3.1.2.4.1.2

              sorry, didn't quite follow that. The shops that have cash on premises this week, what are they supposed to do with it?

              If you think everyone in NZ can afford a phone and internet, you *really haven't been paying attention.

              My elderly parents don't do online banking. They use a branch. You can want everyone on e-money all you like, but the reality is that this week there are people still dependent on being able to visit a branch, and until the government signals well ahead of time that that will be ending, then it needs to be factored into covid response as an essential service.

              • Draco T Bastard

                The shops that have cash on premises this week, what are they supposed to do with it?

                For this week they need to get to the bank. But considering that we had a level 4/3 a couple of months ago and knowing that it was going to happen again both the banks and the businesses should have got off their arse and planned for it.

                The fact that they didn't just goes to show how terrible our business people are at basic business and accounting for risks. The idiots are still trying to go back to how things were when that simply isn't going to happen.

                If you think everyone in NZ can afford a phone and internet, you *really haven't been paying attention.

                If they're that poor then they should be signed up with WINZ and WINZ requires people to have a phone up to and including helping people get one. WINZ even provides the necessary bandwidth if you need it.

                My elderly parents don't do online banking.

                For which they have no excuse. Internet banking became available 20+ years ago in NZ and its never been hard to use.

                As I said, it's been obvious for ages that shops were a thing of the past and that they would be going the way of the dodo in the near future. People should have been preparing for it. And, yes, that includes the government.

                but the reality is that this week there are people still dependent on being able to visit a branch

                Yes, this week shows just how stupid people are thinking that things were going to continue as is when there's a global pandemic and a possibility of a lock down happening with little to no warning.

                Get with the program already and stop making excuses.

                • Drowsy M. Kram

                  My elderly parents don't do online banking.

                  For which they have no excuse.
                  Get with the program already and stop making excuses.

                  Such a bizarre and bossy response – like customers need an excuse.

                  "Combining the online ways of banking and the in-person ways of banking shows over 70% of respondents under 44 years old mainly undertake their banking online while older people are much more likely to mainly bank in branch."
                  https://www.rbnz.govt.nz/-/media/reservebank/files/notes%20and%20coins/future-of-cash/cash-use-in-nz-public-survey-2019-high-level-findings.pdf

                  In the 60+ age bracket, the main way to bank is online (38%), followed by "in-person" (29%). If my everyday bank discontinued services such as in-branch banking and cheque accounts, then I'd switch to a bank that (still) offered them. The customer is always right, right? No-one’s going to force me to buy a cell phone, let alone a smart phone, until I'm good and ready.

                  • Draco T Bastard

                    Such a bizarre and bossy response – like customers need an excuse.

                    Things have changed. Thought I got that through in my last comment. The shops are closing so as to protect people from the pandemic. The services that some are saying are essential aren't because they can be done online.

                    The customer is always right, right?

                    You do realise that that's a marketing strategy right?

                    Its purpose is to stop the customer from being combative in something that's gone wrong. Then, after the salesperson has got the customer calmed down, to carefully explain to the customer why they're wrong and come to an equitable settlement that, hopefully, doesn't involve giving the customer any money. Getting the customer to spend more is a bonus.

                    No-one’s going to force me to buy a cell phone, let alone a smart phone, until I'm good and ready.

                    Its nice to know that you care so much about the health and well-being of your neighbours in these trying times of a global pandemic.

                    /sarc

                    • Drowsy M. Kram

                      Things have changed.

                      Things have always changed, and that won’t change. You’re free to roll with changes as you see fit, and so am I.

                      "Its [sic] nice to know that you care so much about the health and well-being of your neighbours in these trying times of a global pandemic."

                      Thank you DtB, I do try to keep an eye on the neighbours (although I could always do more), and they look out for me – bless 'em.

      • Macro 3.1.3

        Banks are now again classified as essential services (as they were in the previous lockdown). It was a case of some official not being properly informed of all the circumstances. Ashley went over the matter, and explained how the mistake occurred, and how it was quickly rectified on this afternoons briefing.

        • greywarshark 3.1.3.1

          They have been reading Sabine. A genuine complaint that got acted on. Wouldn't that be great if that was what happened.

  4. aj 4

    Collins gets under Ardern's skin. Collins has tried a new tactic for the extra-time Parliament and it appears to be working.

    Thomas Coughlan might have been watching something different than I did. This article doesn't reflect the atmosphere in QT yesterday at all.

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/300091230/election-2020-judith-collins-tries-new-tactic-in-the-extratime-parliament

    …but Collins has a unique, theatrical way of asking questions that really gets under the Government's skin.

    By her fifth supplementary question, Collins discovered the crack team of Heather Simpson and Brian Roche, drafted in to sort out the border-testing fiasco, didn't yet have any terms of reference, despite the pair being appointed a little less than a week ago.

    That effectively means Simpson and Roche are flying blind, each knowing roughly what their job is, but with few specifics.

    Ardern said those terms of reference were still in the process of being drafted. The questions appeared to get under Ardern’s skin – she eventually shot back at Collins that she was so proud of her Labour team that she’d happily have a reference to them on an election billboard – a dig at National’s hoardings which proclaim the party’s “strong team” despite months of brutal infighting.

    • Robert Guyton 4.1

      I was watching also and feel Coughlan did capture the atmosphere accurately. Collins' supercilious laugh that greets Ardern's answers and precedes Collin's every question, is wearying to the soul and is, I believe, irritating Jacinda as evidenced by her slip into "snipping" at Collins over the "strong team" billboards. It's a trifling issue, and the PM will have given herself a stern talking-to for having let her guard down and allowing Collins to "slip one in" – Mallard was quick to rein it in – a slap-fest would be won by Collins hands-down, even if Jacinda made the cleverest jibes, as the fight itself would be seen, quite rightly, as a fail by the PM. But she'll have learned and it won't happen again, though Collins will try that door repeatedly and slyly. I'm always interested to read how others interpret scenes such as this one; the Kiwiblog crowd will have seen a thrashing of the PM by the hero, Judith, while here, as with your fair comment, aj, we'll have seen it differently and in favour of our "champion" – it's a genuinely interesting phenomenon – both sides fully confident that they saw things as they were. Of course, this is only my opinion and describes the way I saw it – there's no reason to believe that my interpretation isn't as coloured as anyone else; such it the mystery of perception.

      • aj 4.1.1

        Collins' supercilious laugh that greets Ardern's answers and precedes Collin's every question,

        Bishop does this as well but I'm not sure it irritates the opposition. My take is it's childish. But I take your points, perceptions are always coloured. And I confess I was listening more than watching, while preparing vegetables for tonight's meal and may have missed nuance of body language. I do agree Collins quieter persona is more effective, but on the substance I gave it either a draw, or a points decision to Adern.

        • On the matter of essential international workers getting into the country and by-passing quarantine requirements, not news, win to Adern
        • On the testing at the border, this will always be a slight loss to labour but this is like flogging an almost dead horse now
        • On terms of reference for Simpson and Roche, a slight win for Adern. So what if they have been appointed but the terms of reference is still being written up?

        Billboards – I thought it was a good dig, are you sure Collins would win a 'slap-fest' only on the optics I'd suggest, as Adern has positioned herself above that but I agree optics alone means she shouldn't dip into the muck too much.

      • Anne 4.1.2

        I was watching also and feel Coughlan did capture the atmosphere accurately.

        I was watching too and indeed he 's correct. Momentarily, Jacinda was irritated and Judith knew so she will try it again – no question. But Jacinda is a quick and smart thinker and I doubt she'll let it happen again.

  5. Gosman 5

    What has happened to the video that had Jacinda Ardern visiting ESR? Last I heard about it was that it was taken down for editing. Does anybody know if it is back up?

      • Gosman 5.1.1

        That one doesn't have a lingering shot of Ashley Bloomfield. Was it edited out then?

        • Incognito 5.1.1.1

          Yawn

        • Drowsy M. Kram 5.1.1.2

          "What has happened to the video that had Jacinda Ardern visiting ESR? Last I heard about it was that it was taken down for editing. Does anybody know if it is back up?" "Was it edited out then?"

          So many questions Gossie – do let us know when you have some answers.

          "That one doesn't have a lingering shot of Ashley Bloomfield."

          Don't worry, there should be more than enough lingering shots of senior public servant Dr Bloomfield to satisfy you in the lead up to the general election.

          All part of the pandemic response service don't you know wink

  6. bwaghorn 6

    I know where collins has been these last few days . They've had her in the shop for full rebuild a much less severe looking and less snarky one was on display on tv this am . No less sneaky though .

  7. ScottGN 7

    It’s a topsy turvy world. On Morning Report this morning we had a Labour Finance Minister preaching fiscal discipline and defending the lack of the wage subsidy for the extra four days of Level 3 lockdown in Auckland while the National Party leader demanded the subsidy get paid, even if it means more borrowing and went so far as to suggest the government should just pay extra if it was too hard to part pay the four days out of a week. Collins incidentally was as nice as pie too, a noticeable shift in tone.
    Strange times.

  8. Just Is 8

    There sems to be a tidal wave of right wing nut jobs critisising Ardern and the Govt for protecting the lives of NZers, even Peters has joined the march

    None of the criticism has any basis on Fact and is little more than Hyperbole, electioneering for the right who have no credibility and seem to have conveniently forgotten all the mishandling of a few weeks ago with Boag, all the resignations, 3 leadership spills and no new policies except to privatise the Covid Response so their friends so they can profit from the pandemic.

    Fake News is at all time High in the NZ Media, surprise, surprise.

  9. Anker 9
    • Just Is. 100%. Media unrelentingly negative at the moment. Their bosses must have set them an assignment to go out and find any angle on our current situation that makes the govt look bad. They are trying to win National the election. It’s unrelentingly
    • Pataua4life 9.1

      What should they report on, Politicians telling us one thing and yet something quite different was happening?

      If you game enough to read blogs from the other side you would see the exact same statements going the other way.

      Plus the fact that the NZ media has been brought by the current Govt for 50 million pieces of silver.

      • anker 9.1.1

        Pataua4life, I guess you are referring to the roll out of testing staff at the border. The Govt had understood it was happening. Even although it wasn't we have one outbreak. one cluster and despite the exhaustive testing it hasn't come from the border.

        Everyone morning I checked the Covid numbers worldwide. Today NZ has gone from 140 to 142 in terms of case numbers. We continue to be surpassed by other countries and have for months. We need perspective here. We have had none by the media. I believe they are undermining and therefore endangering our Covid response

      • Just Is 9.1.2

        "If you game enough to read blogs from the other side you would see the exact same statements going the other way."

        I have been there and read the comments, what is clear is that most who comment their are are completely illiterate and live in a parallel universe.

        "Plus the fact that the NZ media has been brought by the current Govt for 50 million pieces of silver."

        Proof to support that unsubstantiated claim.

        Just a quick reminder, NZ has the very best response to this Pandemic of any country in the world today, there have no stuff ups as suggested by some, ie testing, as there simply is no evidence to support it, there have only been reports of stuff ups from those who wish there were some, yet there is not a single shred of evidence to support that claim, no matter how many times it's repeated by Collins or the media, it doesn't make true, basically FAKE NEWS

  10. ScottGN 10

    What did you expect? That everyone would play nice in the lead up to the election? What a quaint notion.

    • mpledger 10.1

      There is an expectation that the media would be objective and fair.

      • Sabine 10.1.1

        no there is not

        anyone in the media that people like to complain about are in the highest available income section in NZ that is available after Minister or plastic surgery doctor.

        So they are as partisan as they can be as they want their low taxes, their loopholes, and they want people to come back in to rent all the fancy Air BnB owned by these people.

        so why would you expect these guys to be fair and objective? Because that is what you were told? They are stenographers nor journalists.

        • Just Is 10.1.1.1

          No, they're peddlers of Fake News, the strategy used by the right as they have nothing else, confuse and disrupt.

          Opposition Policies are non existent, the media don't care, they just want their mates to win at any cost, anybody claiming the media are not bias must be a Nat supporter.

          • Sabine 10.1.1.1.1

            there is no such thing as fake news no matter how many times the orange shitshow utters these two words. There are news you support and stand behind and then there are those that you don't support and don't stand behind. Simple as. Hoskins and his ilk however will stand behind those that give them tax cuts, and investment loopholes, and privilege and access. Non of that is fake, its currency and they want it. So they will never support anyone who will not give them these baubles.

            Once you understand and accept that type of relationship between a political party and its bullhorn its paid of and fully owned stenographers you can get on with life and stop listening to them. Most of us already do.

            • Stuart Munro 10.1.1.1.1.1

              There is fake news, unfortunately.

              The system is no longer binary – left vs right or whatever – there is now a significant fraction of news chatter devoted to bringing the whole system down. Fake news is not a matter of different interpretations of the same facts, but a deliberate attempt to detach fact from civic discourse. Once it’s gone, anything goes.

              Even homo profugo Woodhouseiensis – homeless man – was not fake news. The story was rebuttable, and its truth or untruth mattered. Fake news is more the crap Billy TK is channeling – an outgrowth of active measures.

  11. ianmac 11

    Marc Daalder writes a well informed column about the unlikelihood of Lockdowns 3 or 4. Pretty refreshing and optimistic

    There's a widespread conception that New Zealand's elimination strategy requires the country to enter a Level 3 or Level 4 lockdown every time a single case makes it past the border.

    This idea that New Zealand is committed to "rolling lockdowns" has been promulgated by political columnists, misguided academics and electoral hopefuls. It is, however, false – the elimination strategy doesn't depend only on lockdowns and it never has.

    https://www.newsroom.co.nz/eliminating-covid-19-without-lockdowns

    [Shortened link]

  12. ScottGN 12

    “There is an expectation that the media would be objective and fair.”

    Good luck with that.

  13. ScottGN 13

    Question for mods.

    The ‘reply’ function is not working on any of my devices. It hasn’t worked for over six months on the iPad I use but up until a couple of days ago I could reply using my iPhone (an 11). Now that’s not working either. I always have to generate a primary comment which is very frustrating. Is there something I can do to correct this? I can’t be the only commenter in here that has this problem?

    • Just Is 13.1

      Scott, Ive had that same problem on my S7, can't reply, the best way around it is to use a computer or lap top which is what I've had to revert to.

      No dam spell checker though, which always takes longer to respond.

    • weka 13.2

      it's the system. You can try switching to desktop from mobile on your phone (or vice versa, can't remember which way round).

      The issue in the past few days is being worked on.

    • The Al1en 13.3

      Use to happen to me. I found making a new post, then deleting it, brings the reply option back again.

  14. aj 14

    …. unlikelihood of Lockdowns 3 or 4. Pretty refreshing and optimistic

    New Zealand will be relying on a small number of people working their butts off for this to succeed, and I hope the public realise this. When I say 'small' it's still thousands of people: border workers, health workers, testing staff, scientists, transport, police and military . I'm mindful of what people coming through quarantine have been saying, "its a different world" and while we go down to level 1, it's never level 1for the frontline staff in this long battle against Covid which will be relentless. They have a huge responsibility and all the stress that goes with it. A big thumbs up for their work so far and into the future.

  15. tc 15

    An unrealistic expectation mpledger, it's been shown by academics the media have a bias to national.

    Both in the lack of an objective approach and the sheer number of pieces that are effectively shilling a national led gov't as the solution. This was a reply to 10.1 that’s ended up on it’s own sorry.

  16. Treetop 16

    For Sabine @3.1 reply not working.

    Sabine what you raise is the conversation which must be had. It is crunch time and finding ways to lessen the pain without losing the fight with Covid is what needs to occur.

    • Sabine 16.1

      any time now they can start conversing about it, because we are getting tired, council fees just gone up, supplies are going up, rents will go up and there is no NO guidance to us and no help other then a loan and a wage subsidy that is too little too late and that the dear neo liberal Grant Robertson rather not pay out, mind his lifelyhood is secured, he gets paid every week without fault. he ain't worried about his family eating and paying mortgage.

  17. Muttonbird 17

    Scientists are now warning that this may explain outbreaks in countries which have not had any coronavirus cases for long periods – and could potentially lead to future spikes.

    https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/12472456/coronavirus-frozen-meat-fish-three-weeks/

    I like to know on what basis MBIE "ruled out" Americold as the source of the Auckland outbreak. It looks like there's not sufficient scientific consensus to say it couldn't happen.

    This of course wouldn't support the narrative the opposition is running that it was definitely a failure of testing at the border.

    • Just Is 17.1

      "This of course wouldn't support the narrative the opposition is running that it was definitely a failure of testing at the border."

      The media have gone along for the ride as well and as expected.

      Facts don't seem to matter when there's an election around the corner and the medias "team" are on the back foot, replacing the Leader 3 times, embarrassed at being caught out trying to release information about the names of people in quarantine, having 15 Nat members resign from parliament prior to the election and having Collins as the Leader and hopeful PM, what an embarrassment.

      Can anyone realistically see Collins as PM, it would be the end of civilisation as we know it today in NZ.

      • Muttonbird 17.1.1

        In the absence of any evidence to the contrary, surely you have to go with the strongest lead which is the first case at Americold. No matter how unlikely, it is still the most likely, with the evidence available.

        After all, how many border workers have tested positive?

        One. That’s it!

        And that was because some cow from America didn’t wash her hands and wasn’t wearing a mask when she left her room.

        • Anne 17.1.1.1

          because some cow from America didn’t wash her hands and wasn’t wearing a mask when she left her room.

          You don't understand Mb. It contravenes their constitutional rights of FREEDOM.

          I am reminded of an incident prior to the anti nuclear legislation passed in 1986, when we used to have naval and air exercises with the Americans out in the Auckland Gulf. A former colleague of mine was giving a flying crew a weather briefing prior to departure when in walked the Yanks. Some fool among them yelled out :

               "MAKE WAY FOR THE FREEDOM FIGHTERS".
          

          It was quietly greeted with laughter and derision. Idiots.

        • Just Is 17.1.1.2

          Muttonbird

          Agreed, the borders being protected, were protected, the evidence proves that no matter how you twist it.

          This virus is Highly contagious, if it wasn't we wouldn't be Locking Down.

      • greywarshark 17.1.2

        Just Is That's what I reckon. I see someone being creative in naming Judeath. angry

        • Just Is 17.1.2.1

          greywarshark

          After their environmental policy release today, I'd say it fits

          Judith saying (stupidly) that we should only keep the "swimming parts of the rivers clean and not worry too much about the rest", we need to look after the farming sector.

          How do you isolate sections of rivers where people swim in them from the rest of the flowing river???

          She obviously thinks Kiwis are not to bright.

          • greywarshark 17.1.2.1.1

            She might be right, she has gone to the top of a major Party. How's that for a little girl from the Styx. (Don't know about her background but couldn't resist.)

  18. swordfish 18

    Colmar Brunton tomorrow ?

    Haven't heard owt … but they almost always poll Saturday to Wednesday … then release on Thurs. (often final week of month)..

    • RedLogix 18.1

      This one should be interesting …. it's now long enough to get a firm steer on Collin's leadership, plus no-one can complain that CB does any favours to the left.

      • swordfish 18.1.1

        .
        With notable exceptions, Lab/Govt partisans tend to feel there'll be either zero swing to the Nats or, in fact, a consolidation of Labour's huge advantage in the wake of this latest outbreak … while for Nat/Oppo partisans it's, of course, vice versa.

        I suspect (pure speculation) that we'll see a mild flow back to the Nats in the next poll … but one that won't even remotely compensate for the huge Nat-to-Lab Realignment during the Level 4 lockdown earlier in the year. Perhaps up to a third of the 400k plus former Nats returning to the Blue fold (albeit tentatively, possibly with some ready to head back in the Govt's direction if all goes well) .. two-thirds remaining with Labour. So perhaps Lab down to late 40s in CB (but a little higher than that in the next TV3 Poll).

        Could be wrong … but that's my guess.

        I'm assuming Colmar Brunton will still go ahead with their polling schedule despite the Auckland lockdown & Election delay.

        [* 100k + swinging back from Lab to Nat wouldn’t normally be considered “mild” exactly … but relative to that massive Realignment … it esentially is]

        • Sabine 18.1.1.1

          i am interested in the % for the gods squad parties, the new conservatives and vision. That could be interesting. A good amount of signs here in middle country. N/God Party signs outweigh labour signs.

          Mind it is rotorua, and the town has been hit hard. Very hard.

    • Patricia Bremner 18.2

      Swordfish how are your parents faring?

      • swordfish 18.2.1

        .
        Thanks so much for asking, Patricia. Really appreciated.

        After a particularly bloody horrendous 6 months from Nov 2019 to April 2020 – an intensification of the situation they'd had to endure over the previous 2 years – (major explosions of violent intimidation from their neighbour for hours throughout night & early morning, vandalising their property, running onto their front yard & threatening at 1, 2, 3 in the morning, & frequent all-night swearing-aggressive drinking / parties … with all the extreme stress & sleep deprivation that that entails) … they got a much needed 6 week break from mid-May through to early-July. The neighbour suddenly disappeared for just over 3 weeks & then was back only very sporadically over the following 3.

        So, for the first time in ages, they were allowed to go to sleep at night & have 8 hours sleep … and enjoy relative peace & quiet during the day … a 90 yo & an 89 yo permitted basic human rights that most people enjoy.

        Unfortunately (but entirely predictably) things have started to deteriorate since he properly moved back mid-July. Nowhere near as bad as before … but I can see it's slowly but surely moving back in that direction.

        Carrying out one or two plans to try to get something done … but not very optimistic … and getting to the point where I may take the law into my own hands … draw a red line in the sand … make it clear to certain authorities that this is outrageous & has gone on for far too long.

        We all had real hopes back in Jan / Feb that he'd be out … a number of Policewomen & a Social Worker who aids the elderly forcefully going in to bat for them … but HNZ response shaped by Govt's tacit No Eviction policy … that'd be the Labour Party that my parents & grandparents have been longtime activists for.

        Anyway, sorry for ranting … I'm aware that people who go on about personal issues on social media quickly become a boring scratched record … but, again, it was very nice of you to ask … and I passed your implicit moral support on to my Parents (as I've done in the past with Redlogix & a number of others). Both asked me to thank you & let you know how much they appreciate it. Cheers.

    • Just Is 18.3

      swordfish

      There's always a concerted drive by the media and opposition during the "polling period", it was always very noticeable when Simple Simon was Leader, he was hard out drumming up support, barking at every passing car.

      This time Collins and Co have got their wealthy friends to do the complaining for them.

  19. ScottGN 19

    Reply to anker at 9.1.1

    With respect to the testing at the border regardless of what was actually happening it would have been prudent for the government to have managed expectations better than they did. Had they said all the way through that while things weren’t perfect at the border they were getting it sorted, I think most of the public would have cut them some slack. Instead we were treated to blithe assurances that everything was hunky dory. And then it turned out it really wasn’t.
    They gave the Opposition and the media a stick to beat them with. You can’t really blame them for using it.

  20. ScottGN 20

    Reply to Muttonbird @17

    Things have come to a pretty pass when The Sun is the go-to for evidence based scientific info in here?

    There’s no citation of the study the article is referring to and the only named comment comes from a Veterinarian.

    • Muttonbird 20.1

      I could link to The Telegraph which carried the same article if that is more your thing? I didn't because it is paywalled and I wanted people to be able to read it.

  21. Reality 21

    A quick read of Newshub. Collins said it was "silly" of the Government not to pay the wage subsidy for the extra days. BUT then backed down and said she would not have done so, under questioning from Garner. Maybe Garner thought a little bit of balance was due and caught her out.

  22. ScottGN 22

    Reply to Just Is @13.1

    I don’t have a laptop or desktop. Haven’t really needed one since my ancient MacBook crapped out a couple of years ago. Hopefully mods can get it sorted if possible.

  23. ScottGN 23

    Shit 24 deaths overnight in Victoria. And 149 new cases.

  24. ScottGN 24

    University of Queensland has released corona vaccine pre-clinical trial data claiming a ‘good level of protection’.

    https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-08-26/uq-covid-19-vaccine-candidate-safe-and-working-on-hamsters/12594726

    [Shortened link]

  25. RedLogix 25

    Good news from the University of Queensland team who are reporting solid progress with their COVID vaccine development.

    Maybe I'm biased because I live in Brisbane, but this looks promising.

  26. Pat 26

    "This has become the Covid-K recovery: fantastic for the rich and an awful repeat of the much-talked-about 1990-92 recession that Finance Minister Grant Robertson and Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern have said they want to avoid repeating."

    https://www.newsroom.co.nz/nzs-k-shaped-covid-19-recovery

    While theres much in this article that overlooks the nuance it is true that a property bubble fuelled by migration is the only strategy our leaders (?) have…..and it will be even more so under National

    • Sabine 26.1

      this is it tho,…

      from your link

      The already rich are on the line heading upwards – getting richer because of a range of Government policies aimed at responding to Covid-19. Meanwhile, renters, beneficiaries and the working poor are getting poorer because their rents are rising, their incomes are falling and they have received no more direct help than they got before the pandemic.

      and looking at the 'offerings' by labour to the working poor and non working poor , there will be nothing forthcoming.

      • Pat 26.1.1

        "Meanwhile, renters, beneficiaries and the working poor are getting poorer because their rents are rising, their incomes are falling and they have received no more direct help than they got before the pandemic."

        And that is the nuance overlooked….the response HAS provided direct assistance to those groups but the fact is that ultimately the support of asset prices undermines that assistance.

        The priority is to save the system.

        • Sabine 26.1.1.1

          this? Is this what you are talking about?
          https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2020/04/25-benefit-increase-making-a-difference-for-beneficiaries-during-lockdown-carmel-sepuloni.html

          As part of the relief package, beneficiaries are receiving a permanent, $25 weekly increase to their benefit. This comes at a total cost of $2.8 billion, which also includes the doubling of the Winter Energy Payment – $1400 for couples and people with dependent children and $900 for singles.

          the winter payment is over as per my friend who recieved it. It came to about 40$ per week which will stop next week as she said. However her rent just increased by 40.

          The 25 $ increase is on the base benefit, which in many cases can and will a reduction in fringe benefits. So you could argue that while on paper these people got a trickle down, it cost them more then it was worth.

          The government here failed. And if we safe the system on the backs of the poor, why on earth would they vote for the government?

          • Pat 26.1.1.1.1

            There are those…AND the wage subsidy, the income relief payment, the apprenticeship subsidy, the housing of the homeless (despite the incompetence) , IRD business loans, rent freeze, leave support, migrant support and foodbank support.

            What would National have done do you think?

            The system is designed for the investor class so why wouldnt it be saved on the backs of the poor?…..its what we voted for for the past 40 years

            You get the Government you deserve

            • Sabine 26.1.1.1.1.1

              I don't care what National would do as i don't vote for them.

              Rent freeze is over, rents are going up everywhere and by quite a bit to make up for the 'only once a year' rule.

              The homeless are no longer housed they were kicked out a few weeks ago and are now roaming the streets again. Well a few are back in emergency housing but never mind. (well 1200 rooms have been retained 🙂 )

              IRD business loans, payable back in a year time. Hope you still have a business then.

              Foodbanks, cause yeah, Foodbanks are a sign of the times and government is doing good if everyone gets a food voucher for a food bank courtesy of WINZ if they get someone to answer the phone there.

              Nah, sorry, not good enough. Not at all good enough, and if this would have been done by National all you guys would be jumping up and down yelling not good enough.

              The Government has spent $13 billion on wage subsidy payments to large and small businesses alike, but not a cent extra to the already jobless, those on a benefit, or to the working poor, other than through a legislated increase in the minimum wage. Many of those with multiple gig economy jobs or part time jobs have seen their incomes fall as the hospitality, retail and office servicing jobs dried up.

              Those businesses with the best connections to Government have received the biggest amounts and the most support. Fletcher Building, The Warehouse and Sky City received over $170 million worth of wage subsidies between them, but decided to sack 2,700 workers anyway after pocketing the money.

              Banks saw their capital requirements relaxed, their lending restrictions relaxed and were offered guarantees funded by the Government to encourage lending to businesses. Barely any new business lending has been done, but banks are back lending at ever-lower mortgage rates to property investors, renovators, downsizers, upsizers and first home buyers.

              from the above link.

              • Pat

                Again…the nuance is ignored.

                Rent freeze is not over yet

                IRD loans are not repayable in one year, they are interest free if paid in a year but run for 5 years at 3% after one year

                Foodbanks exist…they would be less capable without the gov support

                'IF' this had been done by National….I doubt much of it would, it certainly wasnt in the 90s

                The Gov to date has been restrained (in the face of massive pressure) in direct support of big business and the (private) banks lack of support of business despite Gov underwrites should be indicative to you (and everyone) of the need to revisit the current business model despite the liquidity being made available.

                The asset inflation has destroyed disposable income and the answer isnt more asset inflation…..and that requires the system to fail (reset) and that aint going to be a picnic either.

                There is no painless way out, but what is being done is simply delaying the inevitable and wasting resources in the process…Labour if they were true to their history could provide a path out….National not so.

                We will discover in 52 days whether theres a slim chance or none.

          • Patricia 2 26.1.1.1.2

            The Winter Energy Allowance finishes from the end of September. It is $40 weekly per single person and $63 weekly for couples and families.

            For nearly 6 months benefits have continued on with no need to review or verify tenancy /disability costs ; I believe this will start to change in another month.

            Homeless have not been evicted from emergency housing ; the odd person who felt constricted “living indoors” might have gone back to the streets but the choice was theirs. Some homeless have now been housed in permanent accommodation. Many new Kainga Ora flats and houses becoming available in Auckland.

  27. ScottGN 27

    @swordfish 18.1.1

    I’m a Lab/Govt partisan and I’m expecting a realignment back to National. I hope I’m wrong.

    • greywarshark 27.1

      ScittGN @ 27

      I'm disappointed – you are doing a Nat of just reporting part of a comment which gives the wrong impression of what was written.

      Swordfish said this amongst other things:

      I suspect (pure speculation) that we'll see a mild flow back to the Nats in the next poll … but one that won't even remotely compensate for the huge Nat-to-Lab Realignment during the Level 4 lockdown earlier in the year.

    • swordfish 27.2

      You were absolutely one of the notable exceptions I was thinking of, Scott smiley

  28. weka 28

    A parable for our times.

  29. ScottGN 29

    @greywarshark 27.1

    So you accuse me of cherry-picking some of swordfish’s comments by, ahem, cherry-picking some of swordfish’s comment? Nice one.

    As it happens I tend agree with everything swordfish has said. Lab/Govt partisans will be hoping for no change, Nat/Oppo partisans will be hoping for a decent shift back to their party. And the most likely outcome will be a ‘mild flow back to the Nats’ (swordfish’s own words). Sorry if I didn’t spell that out more clearly in my original comment but there is life to be getting on with eh? As for disappointing you – believe it or not that’s probably the least of my worries. Your response to my comment was bloody condescending.

    • greywarshark 29.1

      So is yours you twit. I read your comment and it sounded as if swordfish was saying that the swing to Labour was over. Seeing that is the last thing we want I protested. Sorry to hurt your delicate feelings.

  30. ScottGN 30

    @Muttonbird 23.1

    Yes they have! That’s why I’m annoyed they’ve got sidetracked by the Opposition’s politicking around border testing.

  31. Shane Reti in question time in the House, comes across as a nit-picking fuckwit who asks the same question in various wordings and doesn't listen to the answers.

    Trying to make a case for Day 3 testing being compulsory. Hipkins told him several times that day 12 testing was more relevant but . . . ??

    • Incognito 31.1

      The answer is almost irrelevant. The point is to seed doubt that there is something fundamentally wrong at the borders and that this is the Government’s doing.

      • Just Is 31.1.1

        But the bright sparks don't see any evidence that there is anything fundamentally wrong with our borders, so and simply dismiss it

  32. PaddyOT 32

    The tyrant speaks.

    Judith's more shit for everyone election promise.

    "National leader Judith Collins has told voters the Government’s freshwater regulations would be “gone by lunchtime” if she is elected in September."

    " I'm so over people bossing everyone else around, so I think we should just 'boss out' those regulations,” Collins said.

    "Most rivers in urban and rural areas are polluted, according to a recent report from the Ministry for the Environment.",

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/300091736/election-2020-judith-collins-says-freshwater-regulations-will-be-gone-by-lunchtime-and-government-is-destroying-this-country?cid=app-android

  33. ianmac 33

    <a href="https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12359312"> borders</a>
    Trying to get the right linkage. What did I do wrongly?

    • McFlock 33.1

      If you're manually typing in the "href" stuff, you need to be in "Source" mode on the gui. Otherwise write "borders" then select it and press the chainlink icon (to the right of the "A" buttons) to fill in the hyperlink fields

    • RedBaronCV 33.2

      If you are using a laptop all I do is have the story open on another tab in the browser. I click on the website link – so that it is highlighted in blue. Then I go "ctrl C" and then click on the 'leave a Comments panel" that I am using and go "ctrl V" and that's all that is needed. it's copy and paste. Just leave some spaces around it. Using firefox

  34. McFlock 34

    So ANZ is winding up Bonus Bonds.

    Personally, I am sorry to see it go.

    The investment wanks love to say how crap BB are to other savings schemes, but that's through their lens of the moneyed gentry. Fuck those guys.

    For me, BB were a fees-free way to save up a couple of hundred over a few months, and I'd get all my money back to make a big purchase. It was like a lottery ticket where you got your money back even if you didn't win.

    waa waa you didn't get inflation adjustments. Fucksake, anyone on a low income gets shafted by banks for much more than the cost of inflation. Was it my retirement plan? No. Was it useful and moderately interesting? Yes.

    • Descendant Of Smith 34.1

      Any winnings were also tax free and certainly those in the early days also saw it as a way of supporting government – the trade off was no interest while the government used your money but you had a chance of winning something. It was’t all about what you could get – it was about helping out – part of socialist thinking.

      One of my relatives won $60,000 the second draw she was eligible. Made an enormous difference to her life. I know lots of old people who would bring in half a dozen or more $20-00 cheques each month into the bank my cousin managed. It was regular non-taxed income for them.

  35. Chris T 35

    Just listening to an interview with Hipkins and Ryan Bridges on Magic.

    Pretty impressive bloke really, especially given how much shit he has to now deal with.

    • Muttonbird 35.1

      Of course he is. We're lucky to have him. The pile on up-thread is misguided and mean.

  36. Anker 36
    • Two people I know have said he’d make a good PM (Hipkins). I agree and then I hear Jacinda and it’s very clear how exceptional she is. Good though yet another competent team member
    • Muttonbird 36.1

      Chris Hipkins will probably be the next Prime Minister. And a good one too.

    • Just Is 36.2

      Deputy PM, sorry Kelvin, you're a good bloke and have done a great job but communication is not your thing

  37. PaddyOT 37

    A conflict of interests exists ‘where a reasonable and informed person would perceive that you could be influenced by a private interest when carrying out your public duty.’ A ‘private interest’ may be either ‘pecuniary’ or ‘non-pecuniary’.

    What would the Auditor General deem in consideration of whether a non-pecuniary or pecuniary conflict of interest arises when MP's with vested monetary interests in farms then vote on bills surrounding ' farm practice' ?

    David Bennet as opposition Spokesperson on Agriculture (like other MPs) has direct gain when involved in the repealing of freshwater farm practices. Others also have substance of an association or relationship involved.

    The number of properties owned by New Zealand MPs .

    https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2020/08/the-number-of-properties-owned-by-new-zealand-mps-revealed.html

    https://dpmc.govt.nz/our-business-units/cabinet-office/supporting-work-cabinet/cabinet-manual/2-ministers-crown-6

    • Gabby 37.1

      But what is in Bentit's interests is by definition in the National interest, so no possible conflict. It's just like smuggling swamp kauri (depending on who the smuggler is).

  38. Austringer 38

    Cost of Divert our SUBURBS TREES DEVISE AS WE EXPAND. Planing, cost our payers comp ,laining about traffic and hold ups so tree cutting is progress why, build a billion billion road to where, motor bike boy, time to stop pushing get lost in your homestead lot.

  39. PaddyOT 39

    @ Gabby ( reply not working)

    Oh I forgot, with his three farms on the Parliamentary declared interests list , DBennet is now one of the doctorly experts on the Strong Team. So of course doctor of farming ! 🙃

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