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Open mike 26/04/2013

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, April 26th, 2013 - 205 comments
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205 comments on “Open mike 26/04/2013 ”

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  1. Jenny 1
    26 April 2013 at 6:09 am

    In Protest, Climate Activists Board Coal Ship Off Great Barrier Reef
    Absent action by political leaders, activists call on public citizens to fight climate change by physically preventing fossil fuel expansion through peaceful civil disobedience

    Jon Queally staff writer Common Dreams, Wednesday April 24

    http://www.commondreams.org/headline/2013/04/24-0

    We need to do this here.

    Bring your surfboards, bring your kayaks, bring your dinghies, bring your small yachts, bring your fishing boats and tinnies. Bring your life jackets and wet suits. Bring your signs banners and flags. Bring your courage and your joy.

    New Zealand is a maritime nation, we need to take to the sea. We need to defy the anti-marine protest laws. We need to stop coal exports here and in Australia.

    “Join the “Resistance”

    John Key and the National Party are firmly in the corner of big oil and big coal.

    Despite the terrible danger we are all in they will not lift a finger to stop it.

    In fact they are doing the opposite, passing anti-democratic laws that make it easier for the climate wreckers to operate.

    NASA scientist James, Hansen the world’s leading climate change expert, has determined that; “If we can’t stop coal. It is game over for the climate.”

    We can play a role in stopping the immoral profiteering in coal that is killing our world.

    Australia is the world’s biggest coal exporter in the world, and as such is a major contributor to climate change on a global scale. To save the planet the Australians must stop this trade.

    New Zealand’s coal exports, are big. In fact most of the coal mined in this country is for the export trade. But in comparison with Australia, our trade in coal is dwarfed. The significance of our coal trade, is that Australia will never stop exporting coal, unless New Zealand has done it first.

    It is up to us.

    Our history shows that of all countries, we are most up to the task.

    For the safe future of our world, for our children, and for our children’s children’s sake…..

    We must act!

    If the spirit of ANZAC is still worth something. We must!

    The halting of all coal exports from this country will be a huge and unmissable moral lead for our closest international neighbour and long time friend and ally, Australia. As an example of the sacrifice that must be demanded of them too. That is, If we are to preserve the global climate, fit to hand onto to our children.

    Sacrifice, Mateship, Fighting to make the world fit for future generations. This is what the ANZACs fought for, for us. Can we do any less?

    • BM 1.1
      26 April 2013 at 7:28 am

      What a load of hysterical shit.

      • Morrissey 1.1.1
        26 April 2013 at 7:36 am

        You moron. Just because you don’t care about anything or know about anything, how dare you use such language about people who do?

      • Paul 1.1.2
        26 April 2013 at 7:55 am

        If you have nothing constructive to say, wouldn’t it be better to say nothing?
        Jenny is inspired by the actions of the climate activists off Australia and wants to share that with us, while encouraging us to be active in our defence of the climate too.
        Rather than insulting people, why don’t you make your own suggestions for how we can improve the world?
        Or are your contributions to this site merely intended to be destructive?

        • BM 1.1.2.1
          26 April 2013 at 5:50 pm

          Jenny is a complete flake.
          She wants people to get up and rally against what provides us with the current lifestyle we enjoy today.
          Without oil and coal the worlds economy collapses, unless you’re a complete masochist who the hell wants that.

          It should be about managing these resources and trying to minimize the impacts not banning them.
          Until something else comes along it’s coal and oil for the foreseeable future, except that.

          • geoff 1.1.2.1.1
            26 April 2013 at 5:55 pm

            Yeah that’s right, we can just forget about that pesky thing called extreme climate change eh?

            • McFlock 1.1.2.1.1.1
              26 April 2013 at 6:07 pm

              Funnily enough, although I might disagree with Jenny on stuff, I actually get the impression that she behaves in a genuine and earnest manner, with little or no dissembling or misdirection.

              BM?
              Not so much…

            • BM 1.1.2.1.1.2
              26 April 2013 at 6:16 pm

              If it happens it happens.
              We’ll deal with it then, if it starts to become an issue.

          • Morrissey 1.1.2.1.2
            26 April 2013 at 6:10 pm

            How would you have “minimized” the impact of the Gulf oil spill?

            • BM 1.1.2.1.2.1
              26 April 2013 at 6:19 pm

              From what I’ve read nature cleaned up he spill pretty well.
              The research done on it came to the conclusion that it would have been better just to let nature clean up the area and that the efforts made to control the spill actually hindered the process not helped.

      • David 1.1.3
        26 April 2013 at 8:39 am

        yeah mate, and calling any policy that’s left of centre: communism by stealth, polish shipyard stuff, north korea and so on is just totally non hysterical and well reasoned.

      • David H 1.1.4
        26 April 2013 at 9:02 am

        You cretin BM! If you want the sound of hysterical shit. Then go to the Beehive there’s heaps of it from the National Party over the Labour/Greens Power profits redistribution from the greedies to the needies.

        • DJ 1.1.4.1
          26 April 2013 at 10:36 am

          You do know that “profit redistribution” is what Mugabe called it at the beginning.

          • Morrissey 1.1.4.1.1
            26 April 2013 at 11:19 am

            What a clever comment. Not.

          • Paul 1.1.4.1.2
            26 April 2013 at 11:23 am

            Some people just come onto this site to disrupt intelligent discussion.
            Aren’t there right wing sites for them to carp on and on about their pet topics?

            • DJ 1.1.4.1.2.1
              26 April 2013 at 11:38 am

              How was this conversation intelligent? One sided and hysterical maybe but that doesn’t automatically qualify it as intelligent.

              • Morrissey …
                26 April 2013 at 1:39 pm

                What are you talking about, fool? You’ve repeatedly claimed that the conversation was “one-sided and hysterical” but you evidently lack the wherewithal to provide any evidence to back up your assertion.

                You are a waste of space.

                Why are you here?

              • David H …
                26 April 2013 at 3:55 pm

                My Bad. I should have said, If you want the sound hysterical shit, just wait, and the Trolls will provide.

                Edit: How come I am in Moderation? Or is more about what I said?

                [r0b: I think the keyword troll causes moderation]

          • Colonial Viper 1.1.4.1.3
            26 April 2013 at 11:26 am

            You do know that “profit redistribution” is what Mugabe called it at the beginning.

            It’s also what the partners at JP Morgan and Goldman Sachs do.

            What’s your point?

          • Murray Olsen 1.1.4.1.4
            26 April 2013 at 12:53 pm

            Please tell us more about Mugabe. Are you a whenwe? Were you allowed to shoot blacks in Rhodesia, or did you have to cross into Mozambique?

    • Ad 1.2
      26 April 2013 at 9:49 am

      A provocation for you:

      http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2013/05/what-if-we-never-run-out-of-oil/309294/

      I can imagine better collective global effort about climate change if petrol costs more. But not if there’s an easier transition to other forms of oil than has been envisaged.

      • aerobubble 1.2.1
        26 April 2013 at 10:07 am

        Insurance companies have a market interest to keep disasters (and so pay outs down). Or do they?
        As we have found, market churn means fees. Why would any industry cut its growth, and so its immediate share price since its based on its future potential?

        So to answer your question, should carbon energy never run out, the market would never deal with the consequences until its too late (look at any polluted industrial areas for how little and too late the market is).

        Second, carbon energy is stored sunlight over millions of years, there will always become a point where the ‘new’ sources run out like oil has, and so the old adage of never say never must be employed.

        • Ad 1.2.1.1
          26 April 2013 at 10:16 am

          Jenny’s point that governments really do respond to the force of crowds – as per the ANZAC/Lange protests – is understood. I still love Canetti’s Crowds and Power.

          My point is less about the supply of oil and more a pessimism that without the force of price and spectacular scarcity that effective global movements would be hard to generate. I can see it at a neighbourhood scale, even at a City scale, because in different ways I have done it. So to be clear I support the effort. But if even the entire EU can’t sustain a carbon market, it’s hard to see governments successfully contesting the market about climate change generally.

  2. Jenny 2
    26 April 2013 at 6:18 am

    ”In the end, what will motivate governments to act is that groundswell pushing them forward.”

    Helen Clark Lincoln University annual environmental address, August, last year.

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/environment/7513890/Helen-Clark-urges-action-on-environment

    Helen Clark called for a groundswell from below to force government’s and political parties to act on climate change.

    If you are concerned about climate change you must ask ourself this question:

    I am I happy to just protest against climate change, or do I want to stop climate change?

    If your answer is, I want to stop climate change.

    You should listen to Helen Clark.

    Helen Clark knows the mechanics of how to stop climate change.

    She should.

    As a senior Labour Party MP during the Muldoon and Lange years. Helen Clark was an eye witness on the inside into how a mass movement can change governments and influence political parties and parliaments.

    From her vantage point inside the parliamentary Labour Party Helen Clark saw that; No matter whether they were National Party government MPs, or Labour Party opposition MPs. The mass public campaign that blockaded our Nation’s harbour’s against nuclear ships, put every politician on notice.
    This became especially true when the issue came up for a vote in the house when Richard Prebble’s (of all people) private member’s bill to ban nuclear warship visits was drawn from ballot.

    Due to the huge pressure from below, two National MPs, Mike Minogue and Marilyn Waring, were moved to cross the floor and vote with the opposition.

    If Richard Prebble’s private members bill had been put to the vote, New Zealand would have become Nuclear Free in 1984.

    To prevent the vote, the Prime Minister, Robert Muldoon closed parliament down, called a snap election.
    Everyone knew, including Muldoon, that his National Party had no chance of continuing in government with the issue of nuclear ship visits unresolved. Conservative pundits including Muldoon, hoped that under the pressure of what has cynically been called “pragmatism” or “Real Politic” (Which is all the secret, and not so secret conservative pressures that influences governments and parliamentary parties), that a new Labour administration would, on gaining office, be able to back-track on the issue in a way that the unpopular Muldoon could not. Which as predictably the new Labour government did. To break the ban David Lange himself, tried to bring in the nuclear armed warship the USS Buchanon into New Zealand waters.

    However a high level meeting in his Beehive office held with the, (then), unofficial head of the anti-nuclear movement, Nicky Hagar, convinced Lange that if the Buchanon was brought into any New Zealand harbour that the protests against his government would dwarf anything that had gone down against the Muldoon administration.

    Although the USS Buchanon was already on route to New Zealand and was more than half way here. Facing up to the inevitable disgrace that threatened to befall him, and his government if he allowed the Buchanon to dock. Lange had to call up Washington and ordered the Americans to turn their ship around.

    The next day in an interview that was published in the the Listener, Lange was reported to have said that the peace movement was his most “feared lobby”.

    After the debacle of the Buchanon defeat, the Lange administration still continued to drag the chain as much as they could.
    Whereas, the Muldoon administration in 1984, could not have held the line for even one more day, putting off the vote to make New Zealand “Nuclear Weapons Free”. The Lange administration was able to hold the line until the dying months of 1987. And was only finally forced by the approaching deadline of an upcoming general election to put the long promised legislation. Lange feared that if the universally unpopular and controversial Rogernomic policies of his government was followed by a reversal on the “Nuclear Weapons Free” legislation, then the Labour Party if not being turfed out of office completely, would at the very least taken a very serious hit in voter support. (Not to mention the personal odium that would have been attached to his name forever.)

    As it turned out. Despite the harsh economic policies forced on the New Zealand people by the Lange/Douglas administration, surfing the wave of the wildly popular support for the New Zealand’s newly minted “Nuclear Free” status – the 1987 election results saw David Lange’s Labour Party triumphantly returned as the government in a massive victory landslide of voter support.

    • muzza 2.1
      26 April 2013 at 9:10 am

      Jenny I respect your passion, just to be clear on that.

      Few things though.

      1: Climate change can’t be stopped

      2: Helen Clark is NOT to be listened to – Getting the to the #3 spot at the UN, means she delivered what was wanted by those who control the UN, hence her position there now. That would imply, she delivered what was requested, during her 9 years in as PM. Question, is, what was it that she did which earned her that position…

      3: Helen Clark knows the mechanics of political corruption – She knows NOTHING about about how to stop climate change, however she might well know the planned role for the UN as defacto global government, which will fit perfectly with her own ideological beliefs!

      4: You’re still focusing on too narrow a set of parameters, you should widen too include geo-engineering. Just like GM foods, which will have environmental consequences and people are happy to have that discussion, so should it be true of geo-engineering….

      In case you missed my link yesterday

      http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2013/mar/31/earth-cooling-schemes-global-signoff

    • Ugly Truth 2.2
      26 April 2013 at 10:32 am

      Just echoing what muzza said. Climate change is a lot more complicated than the solitary effect of increasing CO2 emissions, the green movement was hijacked a long time ago.

      • Bill 2.2.1
        26 April 2013 at 10:53 am

        Climate change is a lot more complicated than…

        …not continuing to pump ancient carbon stores into the atmosphere; like the pain in your thumb is a lot more complicated than not hitting it with the bloody hammer any more.

        CC is a very, very simple thing. The effects are not. Reversing that which has already been done is not. Avoiding unforeseeable consequences is not. But still…at root, climate change and the action required to stop contributing to it is devastatingly simple and uncomplicated.

    • Murray Olsen 2.3
      26 April 2013 at 1:02 pm

      Is there any evidence that the USS Buchanan was nuclear armed? The way I remember things, it quite obviously wouldn’t have been, with the problem being that the yanks refused to confirm this.
      Also, I’d say it was a pity that Helen Clark didn’t let the groundswell against Rogernomics sway her from it.

      • Jenny 2.3.1
        27 April 2013 at 7:00 am

        Is there any evidence that the USS Buchanan was nuclear armed? The way I remember things, it quite obviously wouldn’t have been….

        Murray Olsen

        Indeed, the Buchanon had been intentionally chosen so that David Lange would have the political cover of “plausible deniability” that it was carrying any nuclear weapons.

        Mr Lange dispatched his Chief of Defence Force, Air Marshal Sir Ewan Jamieson, to Honolulu to discuss the actual ship with the US Pacific Command. New Zealand was given a choice of ships and Air Marshal Jamieson settled on USS Buchanan, an almost obsolete destroyer which, while capable of carrying nuclear weapons, almost certainly would not have been…..

        Gerald Hensley David Lange’s chief adviser

        However this was not enough for the powerful New Zealand anti-nuclear movement. (Though Audrey Young doesn’t credit him, in particular, anti-nuclear activist Nicky Hagar who met with Lange in his Beehive office in the lead up to the Buchanon visit).

        “To the surprise of his hearers from both delegations, [Schultz] added that New Zealand had to accept that from time to time there would inevitably be nuclear weapons aboard the occasional visiting ship.”

        It was seized upon by activists later as confirmation that even if a compromise had been reached, the US would have disregarded the policy.

        Audrey Young

        Sources:
        http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10879810

        http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10879996

        • Murray Olsen 2.3.1.1
          27 April 2013 at 4:29 pm

          So basically a no then? As I remember from the time, the issue was that American ships would be allowed in if the yanks confirmed they had no nuclear weapons on board. They were not prepared to deviate from their neither confirm nor deny policy.
          My position on this is that not letting it in was the right thing to do. I don’t even want windsurfers from nuclear navies in our waters. I don’t want a GI Joe toy from a country that tortures people in our shops.

  3. Lindsey 3
    26 April 2013 at 7:56 am

    One good thing about Tory governments – they provide many opportunities for healthy outdoor exercise and catching up with old friends. See you all on the march tomorrow!

  4. Paul 4
    26 April 2013 at 8:07 am

    I see America is beating the war drums over Syria again, claiming that the Syrian government is using sarin against rebels. Now where did we hear stories of weapons of mass destruction before…?
    And surprise, surprise..there appears to be no serious questioning of the claims by the corporate media.

    • Colonial Viper 4.1
      26 April 2013 at 8:15 am

      Good luck Американцыs.

      http://www.majalla.com/eng/2013/01/article55237794

    • muzza 4.2
      26 April 2013 at 9:13 am

      Its rather like after 911, there was an, anthrax *attack*, then after Boston, a repeat using another sunstance, but almost identical story line…

      Its the same script writers, that should be plainly obvious, to all but the weakest of minds!

      • The Al1en 4.2.1
        26 April 2013 at 9:36 am

        Mr Hagel said “our intelligence community does assess, with varying degrees of confidence, that the Syrian regime has used chemical weapons on a small scale in Syria, specifically, the chemical agent sarin”.

        “It violates every convention of warfare,”

        “Its the same script writers, that should be plainly obvious, to all but the weakest of minds!”

        So when the proof comes with footage of innocent children, women, old men and women, faces disfigured and contorted by fear and pain, what page of the wank manual will your weak mind get it’s next throw away nugget from?

        • Ugly Truth 4.2.1.1
          26 April 2013 at 10:45 am

          Does Mr Hagel have a history of providing relevant intelligence information?

          Sibel Edmonds: “I provided three possible US objectives associated with the Boston Terror incident. I emphasized the first possible scenario as the most likely: Removing Russia as the obstacle in invading Syria.”

          http://www.boilingfrogspost.com/2013/04/25/boston-terror-update-2-april-25-the-syria-objective-is-nearly-accomplished/

        • muzza 4.2.1.2
          26 April 2013 at 10:54 am

          If only I did have a weak mind TA – Sadly you are very much mistaking me for someone else, or more likely you are projecting!

          When you say *proof*, what is it exactly that twists your emotive sub-set, when it comes to *proof*, and are you prepared to accept the worlds most war mongered (USA) nation, as the holders/providers of said, *proof*.

          Who will be selling those pictures, of contorted faces, or more accurately, who will have manufactured them..

          I suggest you read about some of the historical *gotcha* moments around the Lybian escapades, of the likes of the BBC/CNN/FOX news et al!

          • The Al1en 4.2.1.2.1
            26 April 2013 at 12:06 pm

            I’m sure, with so many vigilants like yourself on their case, the us will never make the same mistake twice, but you, in not even considering the reports may actually be true, and innocents are being gassed, prejudice most, if not all of your personal warmongery against the americans as pure fucktardery.

            You’re dismissed, nut wank.

            • muzza 4.2.1.2.1.1
              26 April 2013 at 2:54 pm

              What is with the insults, sheesh!

              I consider them alright, I consider as many angles as I have time to absorb, and then I look at the players, their history and the motives.

              Nah the Anglo-French administrations will continue to ensure, through their agendas, that many more innocent people continue to die, every minute of every day..

              With the support of those who share your , limited view of the ME situation!

              You mean well, but you’re playing down the wrong line.

              Please go and do some further reading, the Syrian situation, same as Libya, is manufactured by the US/UK/France primarily, or more accurately, those who pull the strings of those administraive entities!

              • The Al1en …
                26 April 2013 at 6:54 pm

                “I consider them alright,”

                Yeah, it’s all over your *work*

                “You mean well, but you’re playing down the wrong line.”

                Offside. I always wait til the team sheet is released before I slag off the opposing players, anything else would be stupid and leave me open to ridicule, which I wouldn’t like.

                “Please go and do some further reading”

                You need to chose the right battles, Rambo.
                By throwing mud at everything, you make it an easy decision to walk on the other footpath of life.

                • The Al1en …
                  26 April 2013 at 7:54 pm

                  And a bit patronising, especially considering only one of us has jumped to a conclusion without knowing any fact other than same day news reports.
                  That’s basic, that’s clare curran like stuff. :tut tut: 😉

                  Quality control is slipping, M.

                  • muzza …
                    27 April 2013 at 9:44 am

                    Patronizing – Is that how you read my response to your insults, TA,

                    Well done lad!

                    • The Al1en …
                      27 April 2013 at 1:05 pm

                      Seen the footage of chemical victims, yet?
                      Got a ‘put on job’ or ‘set up’ reply waiting in the wings?
                      Shame on you for so easily dismissing human suffering to score a point against the ‘enemy’.

                    • muzza …
                      27 April 2013 at 2:59 pm

                      Are you deliberately obtuse, or is that you are not paying attention!

                      Ill try make this as simple as possible, one final time:

                      1: Libya, and now Syria, were/are being, taken down by the same forces.

                      2: Innocent people have been/are being killed on the manufactured conflict, on all sides

                      3: Innocent people dying/being f*cked over, for any reason what-so-ever, is unacceptable, be it war, famine, poverty, inequality, political lies, police lies doesn’t matter – That’s always my default position!

                      You’re aiming your ill-informed opinions, at the wrong person matey, I’d suggest you speak to the people in Langley Virginia, and Washington DC, aim your vitriol in that direction , as a start!

                    • The Al1en …
                      27 April 2013 at 4:05 pm

                      “Are you deliberately obtuse, or is that you are not paying attention!”

                      It would appear neither, seeing as I’ve correctly called you for being a plank.

                      “You’re aiming your ill-informed opinions,”

                      I seriously dispute ill informed, and as stated, nothing wrong with my aim.

                      “I’d suggest you speak to the people in Langley Virginia, and Washington DC, aim your vitriol in that direction , as a start!”

                      Why? Because you dismiss rightful condemnation over the use of chemical weapons in Syria as a plot for world domination.
                      Don’t be a dick head.

                      Anyway, I gave you the benefit of the doubt, ’cause you’re a ‘name’ here, but I really shouldn’t have.

                      Keep your right of reply for the secret dossiers, comrade. 😉

      • Murray Olsen 4.2.2
        26 April 2013 at 1:07 pm

        Well muzza, it does seem plainly obvious to your mind. Hmmmm.

        • muzza 4.2.2.1
          26 April 2013 at 2:56 pm

          Perhaps thats because I have spent more time in those parts of the world Murray, and speaking with people who are working/from ME countries, and to people who have served in the actions/wars in that region!

          Thats before I even do my own reading etc!

          Hows the geo-engineering research coming along?

          • Murray Olsen 4.2.2.1.1
            26 April 2013 at 9:11 pm

            What geo-engineering research? Go and look on youtube, I wouldn’t have a clue.

      • muzza 4.3.1
        26 April 2013 at 5:39 pm

        http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/tories-use-boston-bombing-to-speed-up-vote-on-counter-terrorism-bill/article11464897/

        News of a terror plot to attack a Via Rail train, just one week after the Boston Marathon bombings, has pushed public security to the front burner just as the Harper government seeks Parliament’s authority to curb civil liberties in the name of keeping Canadians safe.

        Recent months have been trying for the Tories as they drifted from one controversy to another – from aboriginal anger to foreign workers – with few high-profile items left on its agenda.

        Monday’s arrests “demonstrate that terrorism continues to be a real threat to Canada,” Public Safety Minister Vic Toews said a short while after Mounties began explaining the arrests. “Preventing, countering, and prosecuting terrorism is a priority for our government.”

        Yup, off to the camps you go! – Never let a manufactured terror event go to waste!

  5. Lanthanide 5
    26 April 2013 at 8:46 am

    Honestly this reads like something that would be on The Onion or The Civilian:
    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/8599493/Susan-Devoy-makes-train-crash-speech

    When asked about the nature of her work by the MC, Dame Susan responded with the line “same s…, different day”, Ms Tyrrell said.

    Another disgruntled guest said Dame Susan had described her Wellington staff as “difficult”, before making an off-colour joke about men with sausages in their pockets.

    • AsleepWhileWalking 5.1
      26 April 2013 at 8:59 am

      !??!! Fuck that is funny. Love the quote from Sir Peter Leitch, “policially driven”. Halarious.

      I’m telling you the way to bring this country to a stand still isn’t to attack policitally, or with arms…just wipe out all the stadiums and sports broadcasts and we would submit to anything to have them back.

      • Morrissey 5.1.1
        26 April 2013 at 9:08 am

        Peter Leitch is a halfwit, with no discernible talent.

        • Te Reo Putake 5.1.1.1
          26 April 2013 at 9:58 am

          No discernable talent? He built a business empire from a humble base, and has put time, effort and heaps of financial support into league and other sports and charities. I may not like his current sucking up to Key etc. but I’d never be so foolish as to deny his obvious abilities.

          • Morrissey 5.1.1.1.1
            26 April 2013 at 11:02 am

            No discernable [sic] talent?

            I have to admit he does a good comic impression of a beer-sodden boor.

            He built a business empire from a humble base, and has put time, effort and heaps of financial support into league and other sports and charities. I may not like his current sucking up to Key etc. but I’d never be so foolish as to deny his obvious abilities.

            His “obvious abilities”? He has none, other than crude self-publicity.

            • Kevin Welsh 5.1.1.1.1.1
              26 April 2013 at 12:12 pm

              “You just can’t beat the Mad Butchers meat”

              Having worked in advertising for a number of years, I am pretty sure some creative came up with that line as a laugh, but bugger me, he went with it.

              • Lanthanide …
                26 April 2013 at 12:27 pm

                I always tell my boyfriend after that ad has been on: “the Mad Butcher won’t let you beat his meat”.

          • muzza 5.1.1.1.2
            26 April 2013 at 11:04 am

            Have to agree with Voice here Mozza – PL, while not everyones cup of tea, has done much with the fund raising, and charity work, resulting not only from his empire built on rotten meat products, but also because he loved Rugby League, and appreciated that it was a *working class game*

            While not a fan of PL at all, I think in this instance your evaluation might be a little out of alignment.

            • Morrissey 5.1.1.1.2.1
              26 April 2013 at 11:18 am

              You’re both right—he DOES know how to make a dollar.

              • Murray Olsen …
                26 April 2013 at 1:15 pm

                I think of the Mad Butcher as the guy who brought Warehouse/Walmart approaches to meat. He wiped out a lot of small butchers and replaced them with high turn over service centres selling crap meat. He identified the League community as one which would be exceedingly loyal, and had enough income to buy his sausages. He is a successful businessman whose major success was passing himself off as a working class battler, which possibly explains why he can so easily be mates with Key. In terms of successful capitalism, he has talent and can see opportunities, but I always preferred the personal touch of a neighbourhood butcher.

                • Populuxe1 …
                  26 April 2013 at 9:27 pm

                  How nice. I assume you can afford to pay the prices of a neighbourhood butcher as well. I know I can’t.

    • McFlock 5.2
      26 April 2013 at 10:13 am

      Anyone who, just weeks into their new job, regards it as “same shit, different day” and doesn’t like their staff has made a serious error taking the job and will probably ditch it soon for something else.

      • marty mars 5.2.1
        26 April 2013 at 10:38 am

        +1 Indeed. I agree and I think this must be deliberate because it not as if she doesn’t know people are watching what she says.

        • muzza 5.2.1.1
          26 April 2013 at 11:55 am

          Agree Marty, it must be deliberate, question is, why…so openly, brazenly!

        • McFlock 5.2.1.2
          26 April 2013 at 12:15 pm

          There’s always the possibility of tory conceit, but it might also be that she slipped into “celebrity speaker” mode (rather than “government representative”) at a dinner that possibly cost a couple of hundred dollars a head (they raised $46k). And that’s without the fine dinner+vino factor (which is doubtful, given that it was unlikely to be her first keynote speaker role).

          But either way, it shows that she isn’t enthusiastic about the bauble thrown her way, and she doesn’t have the right qualities for the job.

          • marty mars 5.2.1.2.1
            26 April 2013 at 8:05 pm

            The office will be fun on Monday when she gets to work. This seige mentality of devoys was her typical squash tactic – she admitted that she worked with the british/uk/whatever the fuck it’s called media against her. This tactic is boorish when used with important and demanding work like trying to make race relations better in this country.

      • Murray Olsen 5.2.2
        26 April 2013 at 1:20 pm

        I think she’d only ditch it if she was offered something that paid more. She’ll find it in herself to put up with her staff because she’ll have Tory racists and Ansell/Brash one nation types fawning all over her. Key will come out soon and try to paint anyone attacking her as a woman hater, just like Lange did with the unions at Kawerau. She’s doing exactly what she was appointed to do.

    • ghostrider888 5.3
      26 April 2013 at 1:39 pm

      Susan Devoy on The Vote; (just to recap the most telling statement):

      “…PEOPLE SHOULD FEEL ASHAMED THAT THEY BELIEVE WE ARE A RACIST COUNTRY!”
      (SORRY, caps got stuck on).

      if ya missed it, there is a summary on y’days OM.

  6. AsleepWhileWalking 6
    26 April 2013 at 8:49 am

    Can anyone tell me what the significance is of the other white flower next to the poppy at the top of the page?

    • lprent 6.1
      26 April 2013 at 8:53 am

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_poppy_(symbol)

      Reminds me – time to change the header back

      On this site, it was suggested by rocky in about 2009 that if I was going to put up the anzac poppy each year, that I should also add the white poppy as well. So we did.

      • AsleepWhileWalking 6.1.1
        26 April 2013 at 9:06 am

        Ahh, thankyou. I googled “white daisy”.

        Notice that Judith Collins considers it disrespectful (apparently sending our people to die at war is a better idea than attempting peace). All the more reason to use it as often as possible.

        • lprent 6.1.1.1
          26 April 2013 at 9:43 am

          Judith Collins really is that kind of armchair general cum politician that any soldier hates. They’re the idiots who get us killed for their vanity, and yet never do anything substantive to prevent the problems. Irresponsible producers of hot-air and bombast – useless on the actual action.

          It is no wonder that Cameron Slater identifies with her.

          • Morrissey 6.1.1.1.1
            26 April 2013 at 1:36 pm

            Judith Collins really is that kind of armchair general cum politician that any soldier hates.

            Judith “Rosa Klebb” Collins has been voted “Most Likely To Be Accidentally Shot By Own Troops” if she ever finds herself commanding a platoon in South Vietnam.

        • Populuxe1 6.1.1.2
          26 April 2013 at 3:00 pm

          So, in the context of WW2 say, you would be advocating to attempt piece with Hitler? I believe Anthony Eden tried that and it didn’t work out so well. Sometimes there is no alternative and no amount of hand-wringing will change that. You can’t reason with psychotic imperialists – corporate or state.

          • Morrissey 6.1.1.2.1
            26 April 2013 at 3:09 pm

            So, in the context of WW2 say, you would be advocating to attempt piece [sic] with Hitler? I believe Anthony Eden tried that and it didn’t work out so well.

            Did you mean to write Neville Chamberlain? I think you did.

            Sometimes there is no alternative…

            There is certainly an alternative in this case.

            …and no amount of hand-wringing will change that.

            How typical, and predictable, that you should seek to demean principled objection to state violence as “hand-wringing”.

            You can’t reason with psychotic imperialists – corporate or state.

            Indeed. The people of Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan, the Occupied West Bank, and the besieged enclave of Gaza know that only too well.

            • Populuxe1 6.1.1.2.1.1
              26 April 2013 at 3:23 pm

              Yes, I make deliberate spelling mistakes just to set you off, and yes, you are right, Chamberlain, not Eden – a brain hiccough which I apologise for.
              “Principled” objection to state violence only ever seems to be possible in societies protected by the possibility of state violence – how strange. Pehraps less hand-wringing than hand washing. And while I have never supported the invasion of Iraq and unilateral US actions in Pakistan and Afghanistan. I do happen to believe Al Qaida is a threat to otherwise innocent people and must be broken – though of course I would prefer it if the US could find more creative means that don’t involve harm to innocent women and children. Curiously, one wonders at your lack of “principled objection to state [or its equivalent] violence” when Hamas fires off one of its squibs into Israel in deliberate provocation of a massive retaliation and loss of innocent life in Gaza?

              • Morrissey …
                26 April 2013 at 3:50 pm

                There you go again, seriously trying to suggest that Hamas is the problem, and absolving the aggressor. You admit that the rockets that come out of the imprisoned enclave are little more than squibs, and you recognize that the devastation wrought by Israel is massive, but you carefully and dishonestly portray this aggression as “retaliation”.

                To portray Hamas as the aggressor and Israel as the retaliator is the exact inversion of the truth. I don’t know if it’s massive ignorance on your part or brutal, heartless dishonesty. Whatever the case, you will be called on it whenever you attempt it.

                • muzza …
                  26 April 2013 at 5:45 pm

                  Mozza – Pop is a US, and by default, Israeli sympathizer, who knows that Arabs are the problem! His bias is no naked, and his position so wrong, he can’t wrap his head around even the most simple *terror frauds*

                  POP

                  I do happen to believe Al Qaida is a threat to otherwise innocent people and must be broken

                  Um, yeah, ok then Pop…..

                  • McFlock …
                    26 April 2013 at 5:57 pm

                    wow

                    Bigot much?

                    “By default” my arse.

                    • muzza …
                      26 April 2013 at 6:14 pm

                      Again McFlock, you have shown a complete lack of ability to understand when to use the B word!

                      Pop has played his cards openly many times!

                      You’re still having memory issues by the sounds of bro, you need to exercise that skull a bit more!

                      Ill leave your piss poor, over eager use of the B word, for you to ponder, appropriate use!

                      Shalom!

                      Edit – Helpful hint, don’t even contemplate coming back with what your instinct will encourage you to, just take the helpful advice, and leave it at that!

                    • McFlock …
                      26 April 2013 at 6:55 pm

                      actually, rereading that one it seems to meant to say something along the lines of “Pop is a US sympathizer, and therefore by default an Israeli sympathizer” rather than “Pop is a US, [i.e. short for “yank”] and by default [because he is a yank], Israeli sympathizer”.

                      So yeah, I clocked off early on that one. Fair call. But at least I can answer a simple question.

                  • Populuxe1 …
                    26 April 2013 at 6:33 pm

                    What, pray, is a “US”? I’m a fifth generation New Zealander, and you couldn’t be further wrong. I am disgusted by Israel’s attacks on the Palestinian people and the illegal colonisation of their land, and the Muslim world has been very hard one by in this “war on terror”, but that doesn’t really change the fact that there is a militant Muslim minority who do carry out organised terror attacks quite successfully. Pretending it’s a conspiracy won’t make it go away – it certainly won’t bring back the victims, you dick.

                    • Colonial Viper …
                      26 April 2013 at 6:48 pm

                      but that doesn’t really change the fact that there is a militant Muslim minority who do carry out organised terror attacks quite successfully.

                      Yeah, if you use the language of those in the military, financial and political position of power. Nice.

                    • muzza …
                      26 April 2013 at 6:48 pm

                      Thats nice Pop.

                      It goes against written bias, of a pro US nature, but perhaps thats just down to writing syle…

                      You were going along quite well until the 5th and 6th lines, where you managed to throw in the *conspiracy* word, and an insult!

                      Pretending there is not a conspiracy, won’t get those *militant mulsims* neocon/zionists, to go away!

                    • Populuxe1 …
                      26 April 2013 at 7:45 pm

                      It is the symptom of a particularly simple mind that can only think in binary. It’s quite clear there’s blame on both sides.

                • Populuxe1 …
                  26 April 2013 at 6:28 pm

                  Um, no, you delusional, tiny-minded cretin, I am noting that if Hamas didn’t conveniently provide Israel with a slight excuse to carry on with what amounts to a war of extermination, the US wouldn’t have much of a fig leaf to hide behind, and the left wing of the Knesset might be able to get some traction over the insanity. Jeez, what is wrong with you people?

                  • Colonial Viper …
                    26 April 2013 at 6:41 pm

                    Yeah Hamas is going to carry out a war of extermination using, what exactly? AK47’s? WWII era Katyusha rockets? IEDs made in garages? RPGs?

                    Shall we examine what the IDF uses to compete with these Hamas ‘weapons of extermination’?

                    – Abrams main battle tanks
                    – F15’s and F16’s
                    – Apache attack helicopters
                    – Modern guided munitions, including bunker buster munitions
                    – Arsenal of nuclear warheads held outside the NPT.
                    – etc

                    Sorry mate when you create a ghetto you can expect people to fight back; what is your expectation: that they should roll over and play nice in the hope that they will get better treatment?

                    • Arfamo …
                      26 April 2013 at 6:59 pm

                      The Israelis have their own design of main battle tank – Merkava.

                    • Populuxe1 …
                      26 April 2013 at 7:44 pm

                      I’m sorry, can you actually read? Or is your confirmation bias on too tight.
                      “provide Israel with a slight excuse to carry on with what amounts to a war of extermination” Israel, dick, Israel, not Palestine – Hamas does, however, provide just enough of an excuse for Likkud and a whole Zionist lobby in the US to get on with it. FFS!

                    • Colonial Viper …
                      28 April 2013 at 11:05 am

                      Is throwing rocks at military police sufficient justification for a hellfire missile strike on an apartment block. How about hand gun fire at military personnel?

              • Foreign Waka …
                28 April 2013 at 11:15 am

                to Populuxe – Is this before or after the water wells where taken and Palestinians left to literally die without a bullet being spent? Or when their land is being “taken” – just like that and there was no agreement on that – ever. Yes, 2 wrongs do not make 1 right.

                • Colonial Viper …
                  28 April 2013 at 11:19 am

                  P1 views the Palestinians and the Israelis as near equals in this ongoing conflict. And if only the Palestinians would start behaving, things would be much better for them. That says all it needs to.

          • AsleepWhileWalking 6.1.1.2.2
            26 April 2013 at 3:32 pm

            No, I’m saying that we should value our soldiers lives over political ego. They are precious and should only be used as a last resort. We have lost several in the last year and it’s a time of peace.

            • Populuxe1 6.1.1.2.2.1
              26 April 2013 at 6:36 pm

              It’s an international world and we exist in a variety of groups and have various obligations as a good international citizen, but I’ll save my breath.

          • Puddleglum 6.1.1.2.3
            26 April 2013 at 7:49 pm

            Hi Populuxe1,

            Appeasement of Hitler was not, as is popularly portrayed, a kind of early incarnation of ‘peacenikery’. The elites of Europe no doubt supported Hitler’s reformation of the German economy, especially the re-privatisation of the banking sector and the privatisation of many publicly owned assets, including the railways, the biggest public sector operation in the world.

            As this paper outlines, the privatisation pursued by the Nazis went against the trend of western governments of the time who, in response to the depression, had tended to (have to) nationalise firms and even industries – it was the big bail out, as followed today.

            Remember that the German republic was, under Bismarck, one of the most advanced state apparatuses in the late 19th and early 20th centuries. The public sector was large. The Nazi privatisation represented windfalls for selected crony capitalists (as well as franchised arms of the Nazi Party). The term ‘reprivatisation’ used post-WWII was, in fact, adopted from 1930s Germany.

            From the link above:

            “The Nazi government may have used privatization as a tool to improve its relationship with big industrialists and to increase support among this group for its policies. Privatization was also likely used to foster more widespread political support [i.e., financial backing] for the party. Finally, financial motivations played a central role in Nazi privatization. The proceeds from privatization in 1934-37 had relevant fiscal significance: No less than 1.37 per cent of total fiscal revenues were obtained from selling shares in public firms. Moreover, the government avoided including a huge expenditure in the budget by using outside-of-the-budget tools to finance the public services franchised to Nazi organizations.

            Nazi economic policy in the mid-thirties went against the mainstream in several dimensions. The huge increase in public expenditure programs was unique, as was the increase in the armament programs, and together they heavily constrained the budget. Exceptional policies were put in place to finance this exceptional expenditure, and privatization was just one among them. Nazi Germany privatized systematically, and was the only country to do so at the time. This drove Nazi policy against the mainstream, which flowed against privatization of state ownership or public services until the last quarter of the twentieth century.”

            It’s worth remembering that the ‘appeasers’ were, generally, very wealthy men – leading Tories (including Eden who was an appeaser, despite his resignation over how to respond to Mussolini breaching an agreement) with international business and financial interests and connections. It’s also worth remembering that the greater threat was always considered to be the Soviet Union – and the UK elite knew that Hitler was keen to invade Russia.

            • Populuxe1 6.1.1.2.3.1
              26 April 2013 at 10:33 pm

              I’m sure that was a great consolation to Germany’s Jewish industrialists- oh wait, no, they were on to the nazi’s fairly early on for good reasons. How about the wealthy and influential Czech and Polish industrialists… Oh, no, wait…. I think more than a few French businessmen were probably inconvenienced too…

              • Foreign Waka …
                28 April 2013 at 11:24 am

                No it was the Anglo Saxon Elite that saw the advantage whereas the socialist left in France and elsewhere expected the political scenery to change to their advantage. In the end, it all came down to money. Europe at the time has lost its royal houses through revolts and civil was followed as a void needed to be filled. The general population was to a certain extend naive. But one should not forget that there wasn’t the media as it is today and the radio was easily controlled.

  7. geoff 7
    26 April 2013 at 9:58 am

    Found this article from early April. Includes commentary from the man-of-the-moment, Energy economist Geoff Bertram:

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/industries/8518742/Tracing-the-history-of-Tiwai-Pt

    From the article…

    To put it in perspective, Manapouri produces enough power to supply about 630,000 houses each year. It could run five Large Hadron Colliders. It could run two times Google’s data storage network.

    Bertram says power companies have been gouging the consumer for too long. With a simple write down of their assets Tiwai could give all New Zealanders 300kW hours free, each month, for ever. At current average power prices that’s about $80 a month off your power bill, permanently.

    $80 a month. Just from Manapouri hydro. Kinda puts the Labour/Greens $300 saving per year in perspective.

    If you add this potential saving to the potential saving associated with writing down the asset values of the other generators what would the cents per kWh price be?

    I’d love to see an article from Geoff Bertram which states what the price of electricity should be.

  8. freedom 8
    26 April 2013 at 10:05 am

    from the ‘that was money well spent’ file
    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/8599819/Grosers-WTO-bid-hits-the-rocks

    So he spent a quarter mil on travel, ok, he no doubt has a great collection of pens and plenty of spare headphones. It would be a lot more interesting though and certainly more revealing to see what his total expenses were, especially regarding the gravy train dinners, lunches, lunches that become dinners etc. I imagine the wine bill alone is mighty impressive. I also expect sundries will not be itemized.

    • Populuxe1 8.1
      26 April 2013 at 3:03 pm

      Yes, but you can say the same about just about any New Zealand politician, regardless of party. That sort of point scoring is ultimately not a game worth playing.

      • freedom 8.1.1
        26 April 2013 at 4:18 pm

        Not really, there is a distinct culture of entiltlement amongst ‘the deal makers’ that only gets worse the closer to trade deals that you get. Every country (and every wannabe) do their damndest to show it is the richest flashiest most succesful etc. Much like any bunch of friday night fools showing off in the newest downtown bar. In my humble opinion, the taxpayer much like the cleaner the next day, is thoroughly sick of it.

        imagine if this was promised by a party:

        No more parliamentary pensions/benefits/discounts etc. Do your time in service. You get well paid, then that is it.
        The trough is closed. There’s a (?) 20-30 million a year saved just like that.

  9. aerobubble 9
    26 April 2013 at 10:16 am

    A few facts. Germany was locked out of global colonial ambitions. WWI. Germany is a patchwork of protestant and catholicism (and pre-WWII jews). So the WWII was not about Christianity, since Christians were on both sides, if anything there were more non-Christians on the allies side in both great wars. As France and Britain brought in non-European armies from their colonies. Independence of these colonies was won in part because of those who had given up their lives in those wars. Also Israel existence is a form of restitution, etc.

    So when Moro’s guest said we remember them, God and Country, etc, that every creed, faith, etc was a afterthought, a modernism. I can’t help be struck how much has been forgotten.

    Our forefathers did not go to the world wars for Christianity.

    • Ugly Truth 9.1
      26 April 2013 at 10:52 am

      As far as Zionism is concerned, the founder of Zionism and apostate, Theodor Herzl, sought to intensify hatred of the Jew in order to enhance the cause of political Zionism. Here are some of his “pearls:

      “It is essential that the sufferings of Jews. . . become worse. . . this will assist in realization of our plans. . .I have an excellent idea. . . I shall induce anti-semites to liquidate Jewish wealth. . . The anti-semites will assist us thereby in that they will strengthen the persecution and oppression of Jews. The anti-semites shall be our best friends. (From his Diary, Part I, pp. 16)

      Source: Jews Against Zionism

    • Draco T Bastard 9.2
      26 April 2013 at 5:34 pm

      Also Israel existence is a form of restitution, etc.

      Theft can never be restitution.

      • Populuxe1 9.2.1
        26 April 2013 at 6:40 pm

        Tell that to Karl Marx.

        • Colonial Viper 9.2.1.1
          26 April 2013 at 6:51 pm

          So what were Marx’s views on Israel, pray tell?

        • Draco T Bastard 9.2.1.2
          26 April 2013 at 8:28 pm

          Karl Marx never suggested theft. expropriation
          I think you’ll find the first definition correct. It is repossession of that which was stolen in the first place.

          • Populuxe1 9.2.1.2.1
            26 April 2013 at 9:34 pm

            You say po-tay-to, I say take your mendacious little word games and go fuck yourself. Shifting the goal posts around doesn’t change what it is. “Expropriation”, as opposed to paying tax, is theft. Lenin’s “expropriation” wasn’t very different from Hitler’s “expropriation” from the Jews.

            • Puddleglum 9.2.1.2.1.1
              26 April 2013 at 11:15 pm

              Or Gerry’s threatened expropriation of landowners’ property in Christchurch?

              One of the saddest things about modern economies is that they are built upon private property.We all wish to defend our, generally, minuscule amounts of private property, thus allowing those with massive amounts to dominate our world. We accept the sacrifice of our freedom (i.e., the relative influence of our voice in collective decision making) to protect very little that is our ‘own’, in most cases. Not a wise – or rational – trade-off.

              Populuxe1, is the accumulation of property (via legal means) never theft in liberal democracies? (I’m assuming that we agree that legality is not the arbiter of whether or not something is ‘theft’ – theft is the acquisition of something that does not rightfully belong to you; a judgment that depends upon moral and ethical principles, not the current state of the law.).

              On Lenin’s expropriations – the economic system of the Tsar (Nicholas II) in Russia was mainly feudal (though industrialisation had flourished under his father, Alexander III). Was the property accumulated by the Russian aristocracy legitimately obtained? Remember, the Tsar was an absolute/divine monarch and tens of millions of serfs lived and died under harsh conditions for generations prior to the 1917 revolutions (and the one in 1905).

              Similarly, were the holdings of the British Crown in the American Colonies legitimate, given that they were quite decisively expropriated by the Colonial elite? (Should today’s Americans be paying compensation to the British Crown?)

              Again, was Maori land in New Zealand expropriated (i.e., in your eyes, stolen)?

              And what happened to the Jews in the 1930s in Germany was not ‘expropriation’ – it was ethnic cleansing and brutal terrorising and oppression. Get your terms right. Property had very little to do with it. That was a ‘bonus’.

              Dismount your high horse. It’s just a broomstick with a pretend horse’s head on top.

              History is not something to huff and puff about, especially over ‘theft’. It’s about power – who has it and who doesn’t. Those with the power get the property. Those without power and property seek to gain it.

              And those with the power always get to decide what is and isn’t theft.

              • Colonial Viper …
                26 April 2013 at 11:47 pm

                And those with the power always get to decide what is and isn’t theft.

                Just as they decide which version of history gets published.

    • Morrissey 9.3
      26 April 2013 at 5:40 pm

      A few facts….

      Your incoherent rambling is utterly unconvincing. Perhaps the stupidest sentence is your extraordinary claim that Israel’s existence is a “form of restitution, etc.”

      I’m not going to ask you to explain—you are clearly not up to it.

      For God’s sake, do some serious reading.

  10. freedom 10
    26 April 2013 at 10:29 am

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/8599493/Susan-Devoy-makes-train-crash-speech

    The position of RRC pays over 200k a year, or has Devoy refused the salary?
    I cannot find anything saying she has, so is this article just another type and print, forget the fact-check, straight to market lie?

    also imagine The mad butcher’s definition of lewd is pretty colourful and likely very different from say, Colin Craig’s 🙂

  11. Bill the Pill 11
    26 April 2013 at 10:48 am

    Policy on the Hoof? And envy of colleagues’ exposure?
    Grant Robertson is trying to limit the Party’s Policy Options and put down his colleagues.

    Shearer and Parker were leading the NZPower story. But Robertson has to put his oar in! Wow has the boy an inferiority complex!

    “Labour makes no apology for stepping in to fix problems in the electricity sector. But this is not a signal that Labour is going to intervene elsewhere in the economy.
    “As we said on the day we launched NZ Power, we have no plans to intervene in any other markets.”

    WTF? We have just seen the consensus around the Neo-Liberal hegemony of the past thirty years finally get dented: and Grant Robertson is trying to stop it!
    Robertson will lead Labour to the same position it is in Wellington Central. Third position behind National and the Greens!

  12. Morrissey 12
    26 April 2013 at 10:52 am

    “I’ll just bring in my expert witness here: Ron Mark”
    The Vote: Is New Zealand a Racist Country?
    TV3, Wednesday 24 April 2013, 8:30 p.m.

    After watching the superb Annie Goldson documentary about NZ in Afghanistan, my big night of television continued with this horror show. I watched this insult to the intelligence, this D-grade comedy, this dog’s breakfast on the TV3 Plus One channel.

    The producers had assembled what looked like a lecture-theatre full of people, many of them well known in their own right. At first glance it looked like this might be a return to the serious live studio spectaculars that Gordon Dryden, Brian Edwards and Ian Fraser used to front in the 1970s and ’80s. But TV3 obviously doesn’t trust the idea of boring old discussions. Some genius has come up with the idea that a program about racism can be treated like one of those ghastly music talent quests, where celebrity judges gather a team of “talents” and spend half of the show verbally sniping at each other. Presiding over all of this is a “moderator”, played by Linda Clark. Her brief: Keep it light. It’s supposed to be amusing.

    On The Vote, the equivalents of the celeb judges on the pop star talent quests are Guyon Espiner and Duncan Garner, who have obviously been instructed to dish out the repartee against one another; someone in management evidently thinks these two are the equivalent of Abbott and Costello.

    Tonight, Guyon Espiner heads the “Yes” team, with Damon Salesa and John Tamihere. Duncan Garner is the captain of the “No” team, backed up by May Chen and Phil Goff. The default mood for the evening is comical truculence….

    Clearly, what was actually said during this show was not important to the producers. What they wanted was manufactured conflict, plenty of personality clashes—and lots of laughs. Of the “talent”, however, only John Tamihere seemed to be in on this; the other three seemed to take it seriously. So we saw the demeaning sight of Professor Damon Salesa trying to make a serious argument in the face of a barrage of heckling and infantile negative comments by Duncan Garner.

    So the mood of frivolity and forced competitiveness had been established. But it only got worse….

    DUNCAN GARNER: Okay, I’ll just bring in my expert witness here: Ron Mark!

    Instead of eliciting gales of laughter, this announcement was treated seriously, and Winston Peters’ loyal soldier was wheeled on to deliver banalities for a long, long minute in his usual manner. Then the “expert witness” returned to the crowd, with nobody any the wiser. It was like he was back in parliament.

    Now, rack my brains as I might, I could think of only one political featherweight shallower than Ron Mark—and sure enough, not long after, this happened….

    GUYON ESPINER: All right, now to argue that New Zealand IS a racist country, we have the Member of Parliament for Khandallah, Peter Dunne!

    This ineffective fop, this repellent poseur, this National Party stooge embarked on one of his trademark wandery homilies, focused entirely on the notion that we are racist against CHINESE people. This pitiable, bow-tied, bouffanted fool probably doesn’t even know that there are Māori people in New Zealand.

    As Dunne droned on, I could make out in the audience several prominent people, including John Minto, Don “Brethren Cash” Brash (nodding gravely to show he took it all very seriously) and the controversial new Race Relations commissioner Dame Susan Devoy.

    Finally, mercifully, Dunne’s monologue came to an end and he sat down, to the relief of all. It was back to the comedians….

    DUNCAN GARNER: Calling us racist is plain NUTS and simply offensive!
    LINDA CLARK: I have here the result of our audience poll. Eighty-two per cent think that YES, New Zealand is a racist country.
    GUYON ESPINER: Eighty-two per cent! It’s hard to argue we’re not a racist country with those sorts of numbers!

    Then it’s time for a commercial break, but before that, viewers are taken into the middle of each team as they huddle together and strategize, just like a sports team talk. What is obvious immediately is that Espiner does all the talking, while Tamihere and Salesa listen intently. Same with the other team: Garner urgently strategizes, while Goff and Chen listen. The “stars” have to be seen to be in charge.

    DUNCAN GARNER: Right, next up, the big question: Are Māori TOO PRIVILEGED? This of course is the question Don Brash asked back in 2004.

    John Tamihere says something disparaging about the old racist, and is warming to his task before the moderator steps in…

    LINDA CLARK: [giggling] Tamihere, be QUIET!

    AUDIENCE: Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha!

    LINDA CLARK: Forty-eight per cent of our audience says YES, Māori are too privileged, and 42 per cent say no they are not. So it’s almost TOO CLOSE TO CALL!

    The old race-baiter, Don “Brethren Cash” Brash is then trundled on to the stage and asked if he STILL thinks Māori are a privileged and indulged elite group…

    DON “BRETHREN CASH” BRASH: Ehhhhhhhhhhhmmmmm. Yes they are. Ehhhhhhhhhhhmmmm.

    AUDIENCE: Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha!…What?… You silly old fool!… Ha!… Somebody shoot him!

    As disgusting and ridiculous as the old race-baiter and Brethren stooge is, he is almost immediately upstaged….

    MAY CHEN: [slowly, with gravitas] As Ron Mark said, we are sorting out our racial problems in the bedrooms of the nation.

    That crass and insulting statement comes courtesy of the fertile brain of Dr. Ranginui Walker. It was one of his enduring tropes during his long tenure as a Listener columnist, and he repeated it again recently when he was interviewed on radio.

    LINDA CLARK: After the break, we will sum up. And we will talk to the new Race Relations Commissioner, Dame Susan Devoy.

    This proved to be the only pleasant surprise of the night. Dame Susan handled her brief interview impressively. She was balanced, generous and well spoken.

    As for the rest of those involved in this dud: shame on you all.

    • Te Reo Putake 12.1
      26 April 2013 at 12:14 pm

      Sounds truly awful viewing, Moz. Thanks for taking one for the team!

      Mai Chen, btw.

      • Morrissey 12.1.1
        26 April 2013 at 1:07 pm

        Sounds truly awful viewing, Moz. Thanks for taking one for the team!

        It was awful, all right, but it was compellingly awful. I even felt positive at the end of it, seeing Dame Susan give such a good account of herself.

        Mai Chen, btw.

        I KNEW it! Just before I pushed the “Submit Comment” button, I had this nagging feeling that I had made a mistake somewhere, but for the life of me I couldn’t track it down. Thanks for that.

    • Paul 12.2
      26 April 2013 at 12:22 pm

      I watched the doco on New Zealand in Afghanistan. Thanks for the summary and saving the rest of us the pain.

    • geoff 12.3
      27 April 2013 at 4:21 pm

      Morrissey, you’re kind of like The Standard’s version of Diana Wichtel. That’s a compliment btw.

  13. Paul 13
    26 April 2013 at 12:20 pm

    From the Herald “Trade Minister Tim Groser’s bid to head the World Trade Organisation has failed……”The New Zealand Government has spent a lot of money supporting Mr Groser’s bid.” http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=10879907
    How much is ‘a lot of money’? Will the corporate media bother to find out?
    And will they ask if that money could have been spent on other stuff…like tackling child poverty, save DOC jobs, raising the minimum wage more etc etc
    Don’t hold your breath.

  14. ghostwriter888 14
    26 April 2013 at 12:57 pm

    ****

  15. Rogue Trooper 15
    26 April 2013 at 12:58 pm

    ****

    • fender 15.1
      26 April 2013 at 1:05 pm

      Yes….Fuck up Judith Collins…..you Judith are the REAL Noddy.

      • ghostrider888 15.1.1
        26 April 2013 at 1:46 pm

        Hole in the furnace fender?

        • fender 15.1.1.1
          26 April 2013 at 3:38 pm

          Blood boils when I hear via radio that J. Collins calls 3 Labour MP’s “noddys”.

          Decided to allocate “fuck off Judith Collins” to your **** comment.

          But I’m sure you had some deeper meaning in mind, something private between Rouge Trooper and ghostrider888 perhaps.

          • ghostrider888 15.1.1.1.1
            26 April 2013 at 4:32 pm

            only in a parallel universe.(typed in wrong un and got stuck in moderation; mundane i know)

  16. Penny Bright 16
    26 April 2013 at 1:05 pm

    26 April 2013

    PROTEST: “The Government is NOT going to get a ‘good price’ for Mighty River Power – call off the sale!”

    Friday 26 April 3 – 5.30pm

    Outside the Head Office of Mighty River Power

    ANZ building 23- 29 Albert St, Auckland City

    MAP : https://maps.google.co.nz/maps?hl=en&ie=UTF-8&q=Map+Mighty+River&fb=1&gl=nz&hq=Mighty+River&hnear=0x6d0d47fb5a9ce6fb:0x500ef6143a29917,Auckland&cid=0,0,14661661492653781907&ei=-rx5UZzZM6WaiAfF1IHYCw&sqi=2&ved=0CLABEPwSMAE

    (Protest organised by the Switch Off Mercury Energy group).
    ______________________________________________________________________________

    SOE Minister Tony Ryall said the Government wouldn’t sell Mighty River Power unless they could get a ‘good price’.

    (Official Information Act reply from Minister of State Owned Enterprises, Tony Ryall, dated 17 March 2013)

    “Let me make it quite clear. If the Government doesn’t get a good price the Government isn’t going to sell.”

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/ung4048v4cgtul7/Slevel6.3-c13031716040.pdf

    The Government are NOT going to get a ‘good price’ for Mighty River Power, according the opinion expressed in the Dominion Post Editorial dated 24 April 2013:

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/dominion-post/comment/editorials/8587747/Editorial-Key-should-consider-MRP-sale-delay

    “Editorial: Key should consider MRP sale delay

    OPINION: An unholy mess. There is no other way to describe the Government’s partial asset sales programme.

    With just days to go before the public offering of shares in Mighty River Power closes, the float is shrouded in uncertainty. Is the country’s single biggest consumer of electricity about to shut its doors? Will Labour and the Green Party be part of the next government and, if so, will they make good on their promises to renationalise the electricity industry by stealth?

    Potential investors have no way of knowing whether Rio Tinto is serious about closing the Tiwai Point aluminium smelter unless it can wring further concessions from the Government and Meridian Energy. Likewise, they have no way of knowing whether Labour and the Greens will be in a position to implement their policies after the next election.

    But, amid all the uncertainty, there is one certainty: the price the Government and, ultimately the public, will receive for shares sold in Mighty River Power will be lower because of the uncertainty. ….

    However, political considerations should not determine the fate of an asset worth billions of dollars that has been built up by generations of taxpayers. The Government’s overriding concerns should be ensuring that taxpayers get fair value for the business and that as many New Zealanders as possible take advantage of the opportunity to become shareholders in it.

    Neither of those goals are likely to be achieved while there is a possibility of the country being flooded with cheap electricity and the next government telling generators how much they can charge for electricity and how they should operate their power stations.

    ……………………

    But, delaying the sale till after the next election would at least allow voters to choose which of the two approaches offers the better prospect of sensible pricing and secure supply. It would also allow time for the future of Tiwai Point to be resolved.”
    ______________________________________________________________________________

    SO! CALL OFF THE SALE OF MIGHTY RIVER POWER!

    Is NZ Prime Minister John Key, (a shareholder in the Bank of America), going to continue to put his mouth where his money is, and look after investors – or is he going to look after the public majority of taxpayers?

    (Remembering that arguably the majority of taxpayers are not investors?)

    http://www.parliament.nz/NR/rdonlyres/DFA6C21E-69A8-433F-8BA9-956431281F7F/222223/register2012_3.pdf (Pg 33)

    “Rt Hon John KEY (National, Helensville)
    ……..
    Bank of America – banking ”

    How appropriate is it for the four people responsible for setting the ‘final price’ of Mighty River Power shares are those who seem ‘hell bent’ on selling off Mighty River Power at any price, seemingly regardless of the cost to taxpayers?

    “.. I can advise that Cabinet has delegated authority to a group of Ministers to set the final price for shares in the Mighty River Power share offer. the group of Ministers is the Prime Minister (John Key) Minister of Finance (Bill English) , Minister for Economic Development and Associate Minister of Finance Steven Joyce, and Minister of State-Owned Enterprises (Tony Ryall).”

    (Above-mentioned Official Information Act reply from Minister of State Owned Enterprises, Tony Ryall, dated 17 March 2013).
    https://www.dropbox.com/s/ung4048v4cgtul7/Slevel6.3-c13031716040.pdf

    How many taxpayers (or investors) know this?

    Prime Minister John Key, Minister of Finance Bill English, Minister for Economic Development and Associate Minister of Finance Steven Joyce, and Minister of State-Owned Enterprises Tony Ryall, must act in a fiscally responsible, and financially prudent way and look after the interests of taxpayers by calling of the sale of Mighty River Power – NOW.

    The other risk the NZ Government faces is that thousands of new ‘Mum and Dad’ investors, not to mention larger investors, both national and international, may lose confidence in the NZ sharemarket, because of the uncertainty over this ‘unholy mess’ which is currently the Mighty River Power share launch.

    Tomorrow – Saturday 27 April 2013 will be actions all over New Zealand opposing asset sales – which today’s protest outside Mighty River Power, will help to advertise:

    More details here:

    Auckland – http://www.fb.com/events/151078145052593/
    Wellington – http://www.fb.com/events/549656878400623/
    Chirstchurch – http://www.fb.com/events/498770806846579/

    Hamilton – 1: http://www.fb.com/events/226408490833717/
    2: http://www.fb.com/events/150556321785316/
    Tauranga – http://www.fb.com/events/165947043558739/
    Napier – http://www.fb.com/events/101180450070550/
    Palmerston North – http://www.fb.com/events/428833110546101/
    Nelson – http://www.fb.com/events/178199345664434/
    Dunedin – http://www.fb.com/events/228130223991407/
    Hanmer Springs (Sunday 28 April) -www.fb.com/events/571065112918062/
    Greymouth (Sunday 28 April) – http://www.fb.com/pages/Greymouth-Sunday-Markets/334434963322711

    Penny Bright
    A Spokesperson for the Switch Off Mercury Energy group

    https://www.facebook.com/SwitchOffMercuryEnergy?fref=ts

    • hedonismbot 16.1
      26 April 2013 at 3:00 pm

      Well sand my nipples !

      Have you paid your rates yet dear lady ?

      • Penny Bright 16.1.1
        27 April 2013 at 2:23 am

        “Have you paid your rates yet dear lady ?”

        Nope.

        And I won’t until Auckland Council ‘opens the books’ and tells us EXACTLY where our rates monies are being spent.

        Penny Bright

        ‘Anti-privatisation / anti-corruption’ campaigner.

        2013 Auckland Mayoral candidate

  17. farmboy 17
    26 April 2013 at 2:02 pm

    sounds pretty good to me why should they pay the workers when there not working and out on the street having a fucking whine

    [r0b: farmboy, filling your comments with fucking swearing doesn’t impress anyone, and it (unfortunately) promotes comments in kind, and the whole thread gets derailed. Please calm down all, DNFTT.]

    [lprent: Banned one week for what appears to have been a deliberate attempt to start a flame war. Banned a further week for wasting my time moving the thread to OpenMike and away from diverting from the post topic. ]

    • Colonial Viper 17.1
      26 April 2013 at 2:13 pm

      I dunno, why are we listening to you having a fucking whine?

      • farmboy 17.1.1
        26 April 2013 at 2:17 pm

        i’m not whining there chapie as i said sounds pretty good, tis you that is now whining about my percieved whine

    • Murray Olsen 17.2
      26 April 2013 at 2:20 pm

      Get a horse. And a haircut. And a pickaxe handle. Ride into town to cleanse the streets. You can call yourself Key’s Cossacks.
      And please, if you fall off the horse like that AWB idiot in South Africa, put the video on youtube.

      • farmboy 17.2.1
        26 April 2013 at 2:26 pm

        might be hard to record myself while smashing heads with my pickaxe that sounds like a 2hander maybe they should just get the sack and someone more concerned about doing a decent days work for decent money as in affco should be hired that would sound pretty weird to you but alot of people actully work without havn a cry

    • Enough is Enough 17.3
      26 April 2013 at 2:33 pm

      Get used to our ‘whining’ Farm Boy (it is going to be a lot louder than the farmers who whinge because they can’t plan for a few weeks of sunshine)

      You are going to hear us ‘whining’ up and down this country like you have never heard it before.

      We will fight this bullshit in every way imaginable and bring this country to a stop if our ‘whines’ are ignored.

      The workers of this country are not going to put with this.

    • hedonismbot 17.4
      26 April 2013 at 3:02 pm

      Your stupidity is arousing… no pressure…. aha ha

    • felix 17.5
      26 April 2013 at 4:24 pm

      Flippin heck, no-one told me we were having a swearathon today. And now the cunt’s been banned.

  18. AnnaLiviaPlurabella 18
    26 April 2013 at 2:04 pm

    The New Lynn LEC is hosting the Whau Ward Selection Meeting tomorrow at 4.00.

    It will be held in 3071 Great North Road, New Lynn, opposite the Police Station!

    The Whau seat on the Council and the seven Whau Local Board seats will be contested by the Labour Party, with full Labour Party branding. All candidates will be members of the Labour Party.
    Labour will present a full slate.

    The Whau Ward is predominantly in the New Lynn Parliamentary electorate, with parts in the Mt Albert and the Mt Roskill electorates.

    All Whau area LabourParty paid-up members are welcome to attend.

    • karol 18.1
      26 April 2013 at 2:10 pm

      Damn – on the afternoon of an important day of action.

      I’m glad to see that Labour will be putting up candidates for the Whau Board.

  20. mickysavage 20
    26 April 2013 at 2:13 pm

    Every self respecting Auckland lefty and liberal will be at the weekend march against the sale of our assetsthis Saturday. Kicks off at 2 pm from Britomart.

    Facebook notification is at http://www.facebook.com/events/151078145052593/

    • Paul 20.1
      26 April 2013 at 2:18 pm

      Any self respecting New Zealander should be there. You may have voted for National. Show the government this is not the reason you voted for them.
      Selling assets is a sale of our sovereignty. If should affect all New Zealanders.

  21. ghostrider888 21
    26 April 2013 at 2:36 pm

    from RNZ, apparently the Christchurch rebuild is to cost up to 30% /10B more than the government had until now calculated, coming to possibly 40B in total.

    The governments reason for the conservative estimates include
    -inflationary pressure
    -impact upon total $NZ spend.
    -impact on stake-holders costs; (insurers want to cap their debt), taxpayers and ratepayers

    “Throw off your hat kick off your shoes
    Throw down your gun you might shoot yourself
    Or is that what you’re trying to do?”

    “love in a peaceful world, yeah.”

  22. David H 22
    26 April 2013 at 4:05 pm

    So Grosers bid to be the next bigwig of the WTO has crashed and burned. So will he pay the obscene amount of money he has wasted on his pipe dream, back to the taxpayer? Will he fuck. What a waste of time and space he is. And he’s been collecting his taxpayer salary too, what a bludger.\

    “The trade minister hit headlines last week when it emerged that he racked up travel expenses of almost $260,000 in the first three months of the year – nearly $3000 a day – as he lobbied for the WTO top job.”

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/8599819/Grosers-WTO-bid-hits-the-rocks

  23. David H 23
    26 April 2013 at 4:09 pm

    And this little Gem caught my eye too.
    http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/money/8598030/Call-for-NZ-to-be-tax-haven-for-retirees

    Just what we need, a bunch of old, fat, loud, opinionated, rich Yanks coming here, and building gated communities to keep out the riff raff.

  24. muzza 24
    26 April 2013 at 4:40 pm

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10879805

    Not one cent of the millions of dollars worth of assets seized from criminals has been funnelled into drug treatment or resources to fight organised crime as promised when the enabling law came into force.

    Nearly $150 million worth of homes, cars, boats, cash, jewellery and other valuables has been restrained since the Criminal Proceeds (Recovery) Act was passed in December 2009, of which $27 million has been forfeited to the Crown

    Forfeited to The Crown – WTF does that even mean, and who has that cash!

    Where is the rest of the seized assets/cash ending up?

    • Colonial Viper 24.1
      26 April 2013 at 4:50 pm

      “Restrained” I presume that means frozen or otherwise encumbered.

    • McFlock 24.2
      26 April 2013 at 5:05 pm

      It could possibly do with more information, yes.

      Seems to be a slide in terminology in the article: $150mil “restrained” (i.e. my guess is frozen), but $27mil “forfeited” (my guess is completed the seizure process and handed over). However, once that is converted into cash and other creditors settled (article mentioned the banks of course, and spouses) a little over a third of that actually gets to the government (shit valuation of the property?), and of that ABSOLUTELY NONE goes to rehabilitation or addressing the causes of crime. All has disappeared into the consolidated fund, which the nats piss away like export gold (i.e. tip directly down the drain without involving the kidneys as middleman).

  25. muzza 25
    26 April 2013 at 4:48 pm

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10879823

    Police involved in the Urewera dawn raids had still not fully co-operated with the agency investigating their actions five years after the controversial operation.

    With full support through the blue structure, is the only way this *lack of cooperation* could happen!

    This is a bloody disgrace!

  26. Rhinocrates 26
    26 April 2013 at 5:04 pm

    http://thedailyblog.co.nz/2013/04/25/hey-julian-we-are-not-pleased-grant-robertson-calls-off-labours-assault-on-neoliberalism/

    Looks like Chris Trotter’s regretting mistaking a turkey (housing policy) and a lone swallow (power policy) for a summer.

    Robertson disappoints, but he does not surprise.

  27. geoff 27
    26 April 2013 at 5:28 pm

    For the economics wonks:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Averch-Johnson_effect

    The Averch–Johnson effect is the tendency of companies to engage in excessive amounts of capital accumulation in order to expand the volume of their profits. If companies profits to capital ratio is regulated at a certain percentage then there is a strong incentive for companies to over-invest in order to increase profits overall. This goes against any optimal efficiency point for capital that the company may have calculated as higher profit is almost always desired over and above efficiency.

    As far as I can tell, this effect describes the main reason our electricity prices are so high.

  29. Penny Bright 29
    26 April 2013 at 7:42 pm

    How is the Government going to get a ‘good price’ for Mighty River Power’?

    CALL OFF THE SALE!

    http://www.nbr.co.nz/article/labour-greens-electricity-policy-halves-publics-mrp-appetite-bd-139218

    Penny Bright

    ‘Anti-corruption / anti-privatisation’ campaigner

  30. The Al1en 30
    26 April 2013 at 8:07 pm

    44% of kiwis living pay day to pay day.
    That’ll be why every one looks so carefree and relaxed, then.

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=10879848

    • xtasy 30.1
      27 April 2013 at 5:01 am

      The Allen: That is the way I have lived here since I arrived! I NEVER saved and got anywhere, really, as just working honestly and hardly leaves you nowhere but down at the bottom. NZ has NOT improved or changed substantially since the 1980s, apart for a few. That is the sad reality, especially for ordinary, low paid workers, and certainly for benficiaries. Fuck National AND Labour for that!

  31. xtasy 31
    27 April 2013 at 4:31 am

    FORGET NOT, AND LEARN!

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g-ZJAS_ZzKU

    I have not taken a “knife” to WINZ, which I thought of doing so, but North cautioned me. I was not really decided and ready to let off my anger about welfare reforms and to be expected harassments in that manner. But given the most intimidating steps to be expected soon, I will not make any promise or take any commitments to what I can, can restrain myself from, or what may otherwise happen. I have been treated with utter contempt before and was near suicide, due to WINZ and MSD agendas and treatments.

    This present Nat dominated government is pushing many of us to the brink, and if I need to take action, I will do so, even if I need to take the last step to take my life.

    I HATE New Zealand for what this country has been turned into, it is now a disgustingly unfair, divided, racist and hateful place, I wish I had never come back to. It is up to YOU to make a difference and take a stand.

    Much is happening behind the scenes, but few understand and will be prepared to listen.

    Good luck, if you believe that freedom, democracy and rights will be preserved by sitting at home, blogging, chatting and otherwise just minding your own selective interests, you will soon see another thing coming. Iit is too much cowardice that rules this country.

    For FUCKS sake, wake up, take a stand, and go on the Day of Action Today!!!

    I respect and see my ideal in Che Guevara, as I identify very much with this man!

    Xtasy in desperation!

    • xtasy 31.1
      28 April 2013 at 1:33 am

      Oh dear, oh dear, a few hundred marching and “holding up traffic” in Queen Street on the “Day of Action Against Asset Sales”, a supposed one hundred marching in Wellington, and was there any few others that bothered? Seems that to most the horse has bolted long ago, and it is more of “roll over Kiwis” all over the land. Yawn, sigh, what a mess!

      That is how much people care, division is the rule now, self interest and self pre-occupation the prime ambition, so next election will likely show another term for this semi dictotorial lot running the show.

      Import more slaves to do the dirty jobs at service stations in supermarkets, as cleaners in your offices, in fast food and restaurant outlets, in bars and what else need done to keep the show running.

      F*** the rest, that seems to be the motto of most.

      RIP NZ.

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