placing downward pressure on wages is and always has been part of the standard wealth redistribution policy of the Right.
This most commonly comes in the form of relaxed immigration policy or legislation around labor laws
A few days ago I was talking to someone, who, a few years back had started taking lessons to learn to read properly after having spent a lifetime hiding the fact that he had come out of school without being able to do so (probably due to dyslexia). Not being able to read stopped him from being able to do many things including many types of jobs.
He was enjoying the lessons and obviously feeling more empowered and optimistic about his future.
I asked him whether he was still doing these lessons.
No
Why?
Government cut the funds that paid for his lessons.
I am furious.
What advantage is there in removing the opportunity for people to learn such a necessary skill??
I am also aware that over 40 year olds have had 2 years of student allowance support removed. Too bad if they want to retrain after having a family – they can only do so if they are prepared to take on substantially more debt.
How is removing assistance, i.e. effectively discouraging people from education, an advantage to any New Zealander? Or New Zealand as a whole?
It is not.
While these types of cuts have been occurring, politicians have been waxing lyrical about needing to ‘upgrade’ one’s skills to get better paid jobs [implicitly: it is low waged peoples’ fault for being poor due to not having done so] and blathering on about the great need for New Zealand to become a high skill economy.
This is complete and utter shite: politicians, in their well-paid jobs, are obstructing ‘upskilling’ from occurring [they are also very quick to import skilled workers while dragging their heels when it comes to supporting and encouraging New Zealanders to gain these skills. ]
So next time English is trumpeting how ‘healthy’ the books are [which they are not] do spare a thought for all the people who have lost the opportunity to learn something new and develop their chances of earning a decent livelihood and becoming more engaged and more part of this society.
And who wants to be part of a society where obstructions are placed in the way of people in less fortunate circumstances from getting an education?
You don’t need to be able to read to clean toilets or dig ditches. If you really can’t get your shit together enough to part fund your own education then maybe you are better suited to menial work. Not everyone can be part of the knowledge economy. It’s natural that some people do better than others, and there are natural stratas in human societies that need to be respected.
“Who the hell supports these policies?”
People who think like what I just wrote, even if they don’t formulate it so bluntly. And the middle classes who are now afraid that they will be next so support whatever gives them short and medium term gain. Plus the many in the middle classes who lack any useful or meaningful understanding of class and so are more easily led by State and MSM funded prejudice.
Yeah, sadly I think you are probably quite right there.
There is a real paradox in the way of thinking you so accurately give an example of.
When low wages are the issue blame is placed on people for not having pursued an education yet when education is the issue and serious obstacles are being placed in the way of people getting an education there is this message that ‘maybe they are better suited to ‘menial’ jobs anyway (like you have given in your example).
Both issues get ‘rationalised’ away (closer to ‘irrationalised, really isn’t it?) by the two different arguments and neither issue is addressed.
The people who think like that need to get it together and realise that there is an increasing amount of government subsidisation of low waged workers and that increasing the obstacles to people gaining an education leads to less chances for people to get out of the poverty rut.
In both cases – low wages, and low education opportunities – it costs the taxpayer. Either in the rent/ health/ wage subsidies or welfare benefits, not to mention the effects of a whole swathe of New Zealanders who are not reaching their potential.
Wouldn’t it be better to have people studying than stuck on the dole for years on end losing all motivation and hope? Wouldn’t it be better for people to be on a wage that covered their costs without government assistance? Wouldn’t it be better for the government to be encouraging education rather than creating major obstacles and keeping them in a poverty trap?
“In both cases – low wages, and low education opportunities – it costs the taxpayer. Either in the rent/ health/ wage subsidies or welfare benefits, not to mention the effects of a whole swathe of New Zealanders who are not reaching their potential.”
Except the obvious solution there (for selfish people) is to privatise and/or cut funding to those areas of govt spending. Problem solved.
“Wouldn’t it be better to have people studying than stuck on the dole for years on end losing all motivation and hope? Wouldn’t it be better for people to be on a wage that covered their costs without government assistance? Wouldn’t it be better for the government to be encouraging education rather than creating major obstacles and keeping them in a poverty trap?”
Maybe bl, but I’m not convinced by the education for everyone as a solution to unemployment argument. The problem in the past was that education was prioritised for certain classes of people and denied others. Then there was the drive to get everyone into tertiary education because that would improve employment opportunities. But it doesn’t matter if eveyone in NZ has a degree if there still aren’t enough jobs to go around. That tertiary drive also coincided with messing with the apprenticeship schemes and doing things like making all nursing training a degree course. That reduced educational opportunities, by reducing diversity and making education more expensive for the individual and government.
I guess it really depends on what you mean by education. Personally I think we should accept permanent unemployment and shift to a supportive state whereby people on the dole and other benefits are able to supplement their income, and are also supported to use their time in the way that they see fit – it might be formal education, or it might be voluntary work. Or it might be sitting at home writing poetry, or helping a mate fix his car. Or people getting together and growing food or providing childcare for the neighbourhood or extended whanau. Lots of ways that people can meaningfully spend their time.
btw, I think the situation your friend was in is heinous and there is absolutely no excuse for a country like NZ to not be providing free, extenstive literacy support for all people that live here that need it.
In terms of the poverty trap/employment issues, this is tricky. In an ideal world I would support what most here talk about in terms of solutions to that. But AGW/PO/GFC issues are arriving pretty fast and we simply won’t have enough resources for everyone in NZ to live a comfortable middle class life style. Much of the narrative seems driven by chasing the middle class dream, but I’d like to see a discussion of what are basic human rights, and what are the basic human needs in NZ that can be met sustainably. We can do broad strokes pretty easily (housing, food, healthcare), but when we get down to the nitty gritty, it’s not that straightforward. Then there is the small matter of convincing the middle classes and the consumer working class that they will have to reduce their footprint and lifestyles…
Then there was the drive to get everyone into tertiary education because that would improve employment opportunities. But it doesn’t matter if eveyone in NZ has a degree if there still aren’t enough jobs to go around.
The problem was that we left the job to “the market” which, inevitably, failed to create the work that those tertiary educated people should have been doing. To create those jobs you actually need the government to step in and fund them – just as the US and the UK does although the UK doesn’t do as well as the US. Those jobs are in R&D.
All the market will produce is more service sector jobs and there’s even a limit to those because of the needed ratio of people who need services to those who supply them must be high. Also, as productivity increases and “the market” fails to produce high paying jobs then wages in the service sector will continue to drop as less people get employed in high paying jobs.
Personally I think we should accept permanent unemployment and shift to a supportive state whereby people on the dole and other benefits are able to supplement their income, and are also supported to use their time in the way that they see fit – it might be formal education, or it might be voluntary work.
Yes, as an ideal. However I’m increasingly of the opinion that we no longer have the possibility of intelligent state level change before the full force of AGW/PO/GFC hits. By contrast, changing approaches to the unemployed seems somewhat doable.
“Those jobs are in R&D.”
Someone still has to clean the toilets though, and there is no need for a degree education for that. Plus there are more jobs needed than R and D could usefully supply. Lots of other jobs that don’t need a 3 year degree to be learnt and done well.
I don’t think it is possible to replace all jobs with machines
Not yet but that’s why we have R&D.
Please reread what I wrote, because I didn’t way that R and D is not a necessity.
No, you said that it won’t supply all jobs but I disagree. If people don’t have a job then they should be in R&D or Arts & Craft rather than being shunted onto the unemployment benefit. The only way that this can happen though is if the government funds it. My preferred scenario would be for people to continually switch between R&D and practical work while engaging in continual learning.
But not everyone on the dole is going to want to do R and D or be suited to it. (And you didn’t say Arts and Craft first time round). Why limit to R and D or Arts and Craft?
I suppose it also depends on what you mean by R and D, and why you would separate it out. For instance, many gardeners I know practice R and D, but not formally. Are you suggesting that people on the dole could formalise that somehow rather than becoming gardeners themselves?
It is actually a little hard to understand what point you are trying to make, Weka.
First you supply arguments that prize Idiots would say, then you start promoting accepting unemployment, that education has been ‘tried before’ and failed [?] and toilet cleaning requires no education.
You really are starting to sound like our dear leaders, wanting everyone dumbed down and cleaning toilets.
Having read previous comments of yours I doubt that this is what you are intending. So what are you meaning?
I am well aware there are important jobs that are absolutely necessary like growing food for instance or – I’ll humour you – cleaning toilets and that these jobs may not require PHD’s or anything like that, however this is not a good reason to pay low wages or to accept decreasing job opportunities or to obstruct education opportunities for these people but this government has done so Please remember that adult education funds were stopped completely. [Unsure if it was completely or severely cut]
Obstructing education for others who may not be capable of physically demanding jobs and leaving them on welfare is a truly unenlightened approach that successive governments have been taking.
As others have mentioned, there is actually more to education than an issue of employment – I guess I did start that line off – however I did ask [somewhat rhetorically] what advantage is there in obstructing people from education – how is it serving anyone or NZ as a whole? By which I meant I see no advantage and conversely many advantages to encouraging education.
[DTB & co below provided a few advantages to leaving people in the dark; namely advantage for those who are at the top of the [shit] heap.]
You have the ability to write and reason and express yourself because someone taught you these things and somewhere along the line someone taught you the value of reasoning. I very much dislike that there are a fair few New Zealanders who are being obstructed and I would go so far as saying they are being discouraged from the opportunity to do just that.
The more people who are educated or trained in skilled work, the more likely that new ideas and new ways of doing things will arise. Limiting education is a fast-track to a limited and blinkered society – which is exactly what we appear to be developing at present.
Well I agree with much of what you write on these issues bl. And no, what you think I am saying is not what I am saying. What I am saying is what results when you put the issues you raise into the context of AGW/PO/GFC. There IS no recovery from those things, we are on a hiding to nothing if we ignore that fact. The things you are arguing for are all good and true, I just don’t believe they are possible now in the timeframes we have left.
To pick up the point of promoting unemployment, I think there are sound radical strategic reasons for doing so, as a response to the very power structures you abhor. Getting everyone a good education and a good job will perpetuate the power structures and increase our AGW and Peak Everything problems.
I do count myself very fortunate to have the critical thinking mind and expression skills I have, but they didn’t come from formal education. I suppose part of this discussion for me is that I don’t rate tertiary education that highly, in its present form. I do agree with you on the absolute necessity of equity of access, but I also believe that we would all be better off with less academia and more community based skills and knowledge learning.
AFAIK adult education (‘night classes’) funding has been cut. Hard to see that as anything other than the rightwing neoliberal power and control agenda. I’m just not looking to the govt for solutions to these things now. We have many, many skilled people in our communities to learn from. Time we developped new models of how to do that. If we get Labour/GP govt next year I would love to see education overhauled. Won’t be holding my breath though.
My point about cleaning toilets is that there are lots of jobs that don’t need formal education (but do need skill and training). I just dislike this whole idea that tertiary education is ‘higher’ than other things. (We should of course pay toilet cleaners really well, given the nature of the job). My mother was a nurse for many years, started in the 1950s. She learnt how to do that by working in a hospital and afaik got paid for it. Now if she were 18 again, she would have to spend 3 years at polytech and come out with a $15,000 debt to pay back before she could get a job as a nurse. There are definitely some advantages to society of the professionalisation of nursing education, but there are losses too.
I, personally, can’t think of any limits to those.
But not everyone on the dole is going to want to do R and D or be suited to it.
I think people will surprise you and that’s fine anyway – they just get to do the jobs that people who do want to do R&D are no longer doing.
For instance, many gardeners I know practice R and D, but not formally. Are you suggesting that people on the dole could formalise that somehow rather than becoming gardeners themselves?
A system where what they do is recorded, what they find out is shared and what they do is formally recognised.
To pick up the point of promoting unemployment, I think there are sound radical strategic reasons for doing so, as a response to the very power structures you abhor. Getting everyone a good education and a good job will perpetuate the power structures and increase our AGW and Peak Everything problems.
The present system is the problem and it needs to be removed. I’m not someone who is fond of getting an education to meet the requirements of a job. I think people should get and education that matches their interests and then be encouraged/supported into working to those interests.
My mother was a nurse for many years, started in the 1950s. She learnt how to do that by working in a hospital and afaik got paid for it. Now if she were 18 again, she would have to spend 3 years at polytech and come out with a $15,000 debt to pay back before she could get a job as a nurse.
Two things:
1.) Nursing has changed a bit since the 1950s so it’s better to get them trained before they do the practical stuf
2.) We’re the ones that want nurses so why are they the ones that have to pay for the training?
I can see what you mean regarding the GFC and you have a point. Hopefully not an insurmountable problem – yet definitely a challenge. Have been suspecting that is why people are accepting the lies of this government – expecting the numbers to be bad and not really being discerning as to whether there has been damage and debt created by this government as it is all being ‘put down to’ the financial crisis and/or earthquake.
I did not assume that it was formal training that lead to your ability to think – just that it is likely that someone has influenced you in that way. I do not know, but suspect reasoned thinking is something we are taught – is not something that we just develop of our own accord. Might be parents, friends, books or teachers (T.V unlikely!).
It is not my experience that University perpetuates power structures, despite there being a commonly held view to the contrary. Being taught to reason and question undermines blind following of our accepted power-structures, although that will depend on the subject – technical subjects not so much! – I am in little doubt that this aspect is why ‘higher’ learning is not being encouraged for all socio-economic groups.
I do also including skills training (polytech-style) in my references to education it may not be quite as focussed on reasoning, that comes into it, however learning new skills always deepens one’s understanding of how one’s society/environment functions in one way or another and broadens one’s horizons.
Bit of another annoyance for me re what you relay about the nursing! I have heard that myself and how there is less on-the-job training and more courses which one pays for (where one used to be paid for such training) – viewed as bit of a scam by my elders – probably quite correctly so!
Yes, pressuring everyone to get a uni education in order to get a good job was a bit of a con nd/or ill thought out.
But education should be available to those who wan it – and not necessarily for any direct relevance to getting a job – education to participate in society and democracy.
Adult education and the Workers Education Association did a great job once – education in the broadest sense.
We are in a time where we need to be re-emphasising the arts, culture, history and community, as a way of transforming peoples’ lives and giving them a renewed voice.
“We are in a time where we need to be re-emphasising the arts, culture, history and community, as a way of transforming peoples’ lives and giving them a renewed voice.”
Yes, and I’d put civics and how to grow and cook your own food high on the list of things most people should learn.
I’m not convinced by the education for everyone as a solution to unemployment argument.
I am not talking of a one solution fits all approach – unclear how you get that from what I write. If any solution offered has to fix all problems for all people, we really will get nowhere – and might I suggest this might be why nothing is improving. No one section of societies’ issues are addressed because someone has decided that a solution has to fix all problems for all and therefore no problems are being addressed!
Karol’s comment picks up what I was saying – ‘for those who want an education’ was the operative clause for the point I was trying to make.
I am not promoting some sort of forced education idea, I am well aware that some people are not into higher learning and others are. There are possibly more who are into some form of training (as opposed to ‘higher learning’) yet have not been in a good set of circumstances to consider it an option. I have the impression that there are more people who would benefit from [some form of] education than who take it up. Those programmes on TV that show people in prisons who have finally made the plunge and are thriving is an example of this.
We hear on a regular basis that ‘we must upskill’, blah blah ‘knowledge economy’ blah blah. What utter rot this talk is. There is no serious attempt to make education available to all who want it I get more help to go into seasonal work than I ever have going into study. Is that what taxpayers want? People who can and will study but cannot agree to the debt therefore get a couple of extra hundred dollars each year to go into seasonal work and when that dries up end up back on welfare? Or is it better that people go into minimum wage jobs and get supplements for their wages, accommodation, additional help with difficult weeks etc?
It is a bit tricky offering ‘what someone else would say’ to the options taxpayers have. Sure there are some that will argue the point to cut welfare completely – but is this really a serious option? Haven’t you noticed the complete dearth of political parties offering this as a choice at election time? Too many landlords and business people advantaged by this welfare system for that to be a winner. Add this to the many people who really do know the advantage to society in having welfare and all parties know such a policy would be a fast-track into the opposition benches.
I am inclined toward DTB’s response re your comments of ‘its been done before’. I don’t really think there has been any real effort at addressing the interests of the people for a long long time – mostly it has been corporate interests wrapped up in huge amounts of spin – which works all too effectively in a society that increasingly appears to denigrate intelligence and learning.
Yes I daresay the GFC is affecting the way people feel about helping people out of poverty-traps. This is sad, however because the GFC wouldn’t have been able to occur had wealth disparity been knocked on the head from the outset. The problem we have in general and the GFC in particular is damaging policies that go against peoples’ interests are being pushed through because some ‘persons’ have huge political clout due to the vast sums of money they have available to them. Read up on how the debt of those banks were allowed to get so large – there used to be rules about how much debt a bank took on. Find out why commercial banks and investment banks protective separation was removed (separated from the high risk investment banks so ordinary people’s money was safer) and the reasons shadow banking came into existence. I think you will discover that people with too much clout from having more money than sense or compassion are behind such phenomena.
Not having the money is just not the issue – how the money is being shared out is the issue.
I’m unclear why anyone would ‘agree to unemployment’ there are plenty of things to be done, so why are so many people doing things for free or not got jobs at all while others are overworked or have money coming out of their ears and are finding ever more complex ways of how to invest their wealth risk-free or have got such large incomes that they spend much time pretending they haven’t got anything in order to avoid paying their large tax-bills?
This comment has got far too long and I haven’t even got onto the Universal wage …
If any solution offered has to fix all problems for all people, we really will get nowhere – and might I suggest this might be why nothing is improving. No one section of societies’ issues are addressed because someone has decided that a solution has to fix all problems for all and therefore no problems are being addressed!
One section is being addressed – the profiteers. All policies for the last thirty years have been to address the falling rate of profit.
Well educated unemployed people with loads of student debt and no jobs to be found. Not helpful. Debt is a major way the financial elite use to demand compliance from countries, cities and individuals, forcing them to work compliantly at the capitalist coal face earning for shareholders and bond holders.
Yes the money must be shared about more evenly, but that won’t solve the fundamental medium term problem: the material and energy resources we have built our global civilisation on are rapidly depleting.
The medium term problems of resources won’t be solved unless those who have captured this system have less clout.
Those who have captured this system have done so through having oodles more wealth than the rest of us and are using the power that wealth brings them for political purposes for their own private gain.
I agree and I think we are past the point where we can solve this problem politically. In an ideal world we would work towards free and equal access to education of all kinds. However if we focus on resource disparity we lose sight of the fact that resources are finite and dwindling. While I think that destroying the power structures that create and perpetuate inequity is important (and I don’t think this should stop), I do have to wonder if the real solutions to poverty at this point aren’t at the local level. With the education issue, we could spend alot of effort trying to get a left wing govt to reinstate free education and broaden out what the means again. Or, we could support local communities to educate themselves in the context of Peak Everything.
Bl, having said that, I appreciate your dilemma of seasonal work and the need for educational opportunities to find ways out of that trap. Do you see other ways as well as conventional education?
So what we need to do is to get rid of that debt and the way to do that would be to change the banking system so that such debt cannot be built up at all.
Get rid of the hold that the rich have over everyone else and we can start to be a community again.
“But in a neolib cum neo-feudal reconfiguration, formal education is no answer, just a diversion, and a way of loading up the young with debt.”
Just a diversion? How can you say this? Hasn’t your name a number of letters behind it? Was it really merely a diversion for you?
Perhaps you have a particular subject in mind? I have only ever found learning (self taught from decent books or formal) as extremely enhancing to my life and thinking.
I have met SO many people who have degrees and discourage others from doing the same. They do not appear to realise what the learning has done for them – yet it has done rather a lot.
“So what we need to do is to get rid of that debt and the way to do that would be to change the banking system so that such debt cannot be built up at all.
Get rid of the hold that the rich have over everyone else and we can start to be a community again.”
“I have met SO many people who have degrees and discourage others from doing the same. They do not appear to realise what the learning has done for them – yet it has done rather a lot.”
Fair point. Myself, I’ve been to polytech twice. The first time was great (and free) and I learnt some pretty decent practical skills that I still use 25 years later. The second time cost me alot on many levels. It was much more academic, and much of that was a waste of my time (it did enhance my thinking skills because it was so bad that I had to develop more critical thinking to cope. So I guess your point stands, although I think most people believe education should be a positive experience). I didn’t graduate from the second course.
I wonder if you hear so many graduates being discouraging because for many tertiary education lacks so much and costs so much (at the undergrad level at least. I gather post-grad can be more rewarding).
Plus, while the bankers run the world and Draco is figuring out how to take them down, I can’t afford tertiary education and so am getting on with other means (which proves your point and mine I guess).
“This is a democracy so perhaps we should vote the fuckers out.”
By that argument, we can carry on with neoliberal governments like we have for the past 30 years. Voting holds the line, but I doubt it will effect the real change needed. Plus we don’t have time to shift NZ far enough left to effect that change even were it possible. We need additional strategies.
BL. I stand by my comments. You’re thinking of a kind of education which barely exists any more, not the kind of education today which merely teaches people how to serve the system, instead of critiquing and changing it.
As for having a particular subject in mind: I’ll answer with a question. At your local university which faculty has been the most progressive and effective in fighting against the neoliberal agenda? Choose that subject – if it exists.
Weka I agree completely: Parliamentary politics can help hold the line and perhaps make a couple of incremental improvements (maybe). Its extra-parliamentary activity mostly focused at a local level which can make a big difference.
Therefore I would ask you to consider using a far wider definition of “politics”. In a pervasive corporate consumer culture, the mere act of making a gift instead of buying it, of going to Church or your favored place of contemplation instead of the Westfield shopping slum, these are in of themselves value statements with an undoubted political dimension. 95% of the real politics happening in this country has nothing to do with MPs.
Philip Ure: exactly. So this is where I feel BLs idea of gaining another qualification or studying another subject, formally at least, will come to nothing.
No 4 year NZ university degree can even touch what you can learn on The Standard in 6 months.
Nice to be on the same page CV 🙂 That’s pretty much my definition of politics too.
One of the things I’d like to see on ts is a broadening out from central govt and party politics to discussion of how to be effective at the local level as well (and I don’t mean Local Govt). We have a wealth of resource here in authors and commenters, perhaps that can be applied. Although I guess next year will be dominated by the election.
@ CV I question your framing of what I’ve been writing about re education – Are you referring to my “Go to Uni, read a book” comment? I thought Weka’s comment about “what should we do in the meantime” was rather funny and the response was an attempt at humour (hence the smiley face) Think it might have fallen flat.
Any course of study that teaches research methods – statistics and/or reasoned thought and justifying one’s reasoning, and creating a confidence in a students’ own line of reasoning helps against the neo-liberal agenda because quickly one can see that there is a lot of false logic, assumptions – unjustified memes – lack of research that is being pressed upon us through our media sources and in our communities – media studies teaches one to be ‘objective’ as does any subject that teaches the tools of the trade – because once you learn them you see through the tricks that such trades use in order to be effective.
Framing the question as seeking out “a faculty that has been the most progressive and effective in fighting against the neoliberal agenda?” is therefore a question designed to make the reader conclude “there are none” : i.e. there may be no one department that has taken on an activist approach toward the shite we are being fed – however there are many faculties that are teaching critical thinking skills that will lead to the same place.
The strength neo-liberalism has is it’s ability to con – the ability to send out false information and false logic on matters of our society – if one is learning established information – historical context, how to apply statistics correctly, media study – even marketing – one starts easily being able to see through the bullshit we are being fed. I would guess that the worst subject would be economics, they may still teach certain techniques such as supply and demand that have been thoroughly undermined in a manner that they no longer function as expected – however I view that there are many subjects that teach the skills one requires to be immune to being conned.
I would take it that those with power in the world at present would far rather that people did not learn the skills that University or any form of learning provide because an educated public would not be as easily fooled, easily manipulated and compliant as our polls suggest we are.
I think you really take for granted what an education has given you and your message appears to be that it is and was a waste of time. Is this what you are meaning to convey??
Crap. So now I’m over 60, but I also have been told I need to get regular checks for glaucoma because my mother had it – strong chance I’ll get it, but it needs to be caught early.
Agreed, Redbaron. And I checked online: the people most likely to get glaucoma are the people over 60 years – and treating it early gets the best results.
And South East Asian people are one of the ethnic groups most likely to get it, plus 3 times more women get it than men
– who made the decision to stop funding glaucoma treatment to the over 60s again?
How is removing assistance, i.e. effectively discouraging people from education, an advantage to any New Zealander? Or New Zealand as a whole?
It serves the rich and powerful because people who aren’t well educated don’t know enough to take apart the lies that they’re being told. Basically, it helps the few to become richer at everyone else’s expense.
Which is one of the major reasons I am railing against the as-least-as-possible-knowledge (or unknowledge) economy that we appear to be developing.
My comment above appears to have been deviated into framing it into an argument re jobs, yet this is o.k because jobs for all would be one of the many benefits created by a society that stopped believing the utter shite we are being fed.
It also means that the children of the poor cannot compete with their overprivileged brats for the good jobs.
Also the reason for cheap, 3 R’s basic job education for the poor and a real education for the rich.
The real reason why they want to fuck up State education.
Another way of entrenching privilege.
“But I’ll tell you what they don’t want. They don’t want a population of citizens capable of critical thinking. They don’t want well-informed, well-educated people capable of critical thinking. They’re not interested in that. That doesn’t help them. That’s against their interests. They don’t want people who are smart enough to sit around the kitchen table and figure out how badly they’re getting ****** by a system that threw them overboard 30 fucking years ago.
“You know what they want? Obedient workers people who are just smart enough to run the machines and do the paperwork but just dumb enough to passively accept all these increasingly shittier jobs with the lower pay, the longer hours, reduced benefits, the end of overtime and the vanishing pension that disappears the minute you go to collect it.”
“a 2007 report by PricewaterhouseCoopers for the Adult Community Education organization. It concluded the estimated national economic gain of this type of adult education is in the range of $4.8 billion to $6.3 billion. Not bad for a government investment of just $16 million per year.”
Ironic when Clark govt were looking at closing down small rural night classes because of poor attendence Blinglish ripped into the govt saying if you close these night classe down you will damage the social cohesion of these communities .
Blinglish’s hypocracy soon as he gets his hands on the till he cut all night school funding.
Just another double dipping double dealing dipstick.
Right wing trolls like you never feel the need to support outlandish opinions with either reason or supporting evidence. Do you suddenly believe in the need for it?
In that case I’d like to know why he thinks I would give my wife a hiding (assuming thats what hes referring to) and why he thinks accusing someone of violence towards women is ok simply because he disagrees with my views
Your comment to Tricledrown hasn’t acknowledged the sad fact of the matter, re English’s nature, however you did have a decent response, which I didn’t see, sorry – cheers for pointing it out.
There are certainly some tacks in the boots you borrowed to walk 20 miles to vote Tory what, Piss73 ?
Get over the vacuity defining your skull cavity insufferable cargo-cult snob you.
Zooming round in the Vitara you acknowledge you’re stuck with while asprayshuns to the Land Cruiser or whatever you wanked on about remain unrealised on Planet Key.
While the missus trudges home on foot with the Maccers sans dipping sauce, quelle horreur.
You are now hardout charging that that’s what I said Piss73 ? So you’ve gone back on “(assuming thats what hes referring to)”. Please Piss73…….make up your mind. Pick your line of bullshit and stick with it for much longer before you tack off. The duration of one thread is way too quick.
Being that you won’t answer my original question as to what you meant when you posted this:
“You’re a nutter Piss73. Give the missus a serious seeing to when she got home late with the Maccers dinner and no dipping sauce didya ?”
I can only assume you were saying I commit violence on my wife
But what really happened is you posted something you didn’t mean to (maybe got a bit over-excited) and instead of owning up to it you just dance around the subject instead of coming out and saying it was a thoughtless and dumb comment
But by all means continue your attempts at obfuscation
When I first saw the comment I thought it implied Chris was capable of violence. I still do. Given his occasional macho posturing and what I recall is an expressed liking of guns and the military, that’s not to big a leap to make, but it didn’t need to expressed like that.
The way I read the comment was that the ‘no dipping sauce’ would be an excuse for anger, followed by a ‘seeing to’. It didn’t occur to me then that the violence might be sexual, but it does now.
“Thats fine to think that based on comments I’ve made as long as you realise I’ve never and would never abuse my wife”
Why should anyone realise that? “You” are nothing but a pseudonym on a blog. You can say you’ve never driven drunk or kicked a dog or injected meth into your penis if you like, but none of those statements are testable so none of them count.
Same goes for being married, being in the military, or any of the other stories you tell. None of it is testable so none of it counts for anything.
Keep protesting “your” innocence all you like but it does seem like protesting a bit much for someone who doesn’t really exist in any meaningful way.
I acknowledge that you have successfully diverted the conversation after having been proven completely wrong, however this conversation is really getting bizarre.
Perhaps you could have provided a link to the comment that you are quoting of North and then perhaps North might have had the good grace to explain it?
I have to agree with TRP and Tracey (below) what you quoted sounded like an accusation of violence, and I think it is perfectly sane to not to want to be accused of wife bashing and really that wish requires no further explanation about background etc. It should be honoured.
Felix, what are you trying to prove here? That you are prepared to argue a point no matter how ridiculous it is?
Nope, I’m trying to prove exactly what I wrote: That no-one gets to make unverifiable claims online about their real lives from under the cloak of pseudonymity and have them taken seriously.
I don’t think accusing someone of bashing their wife is acceptable.
I don’t think someone bashing their wife is acceptable.
I don’t think neoliberal economics are acceptable.
I don’t think a Labour party that still only goes as far as promising a few crumbs while people like Goff, Parker, and Mallard are cheerleaders for neoliberalism and Rogernomics is acceptable.
Chris73, I think you spout a load of rubbish and have no idea why you bother, but I have no reason to suspect that you bash your wife.
Murray, thank you so much for expressing what I have been thinking about this very sorry ongoing saga. I have felt really sad about this saga, but did not want to get involved.
Give it away people, you and we – and the TS – do not need it. Chris may have different views to most of us here, but let us not descent to the Sewer’s standards for interaction.
Interesting – good to have reminders like that one Tricledrown
It just seems like politicians have lost the plot and no longer consider the interests of New Zealanders as their main focus, rather pathetic point scoring seems to be what they believe their role in society is.
What a complete waste of money it is paying such misguided airheads.
I used to reserve some respect for politicians, acknowledging how hard it is to please everyone – however I am fast losing this attitude. Let’s face it, it is not rocket science to address the main needs of society; they are simply refusing to do it.
Yes Blue Leopard you’re right – look at the current nutting on about the “stronger economy”. Designed to conceal that ShonKey Python is a repatriated robber baron whose “business” is to deliver NZ to the mostly foreign sometimes domestic super rich.
Begs the question “Whose fucking economy ?”.
Oh don’t worry, no answer needed. Especially when eagerly assisted by dumbfuck cargo-cultist soldiers/trolls the likes of Piss73.
To whom honest acknowledgment is as quaintly silly a concept as it is to the government funded lie machine Crosby Textor.
That is a question all parties on the left need to keep asking and then finish with the point that it’s our economy and not that of the rich or the politicians.
New Years Resolution for 2014: Wake up to the Methane Bomb
“From 2007 (location d on Figure 13) the mean atmospheric methane exceeded 1785 – 1795 ppb and increased at a much faster rate than the atmospheric carbon dioxide. This confirms that in 2007, the subsea Arctic Ocean methane clathrate gun began to fire a continuous volley of methane into the Arctic atmosphere (Figure 13, position d) and that we are now power diving into extinction by the Mid 21st Century unless we take immediate and drastic action to remove large volumes of methane from the atmosphere.”
Can i come out of hiding now, is that christmas thing over, if i hear a supposedly mature adult paid 100’s of 1000’s of dollars to read the news tell me that ‘there is only one more sleep to Santa’ again i swear i will not be responsible for my actions…
Ti’s OK, bad, the MSM is back to business as usual – lots of reports about bashings, crime and violence. I guess the good will season is already done!
Oh, but good news is, lots of Boxing Day sales. And foodbanks and City Mission work will disappear from the news – t’is only attended to seasonally so the comfortable folks can feel charitable at Christmas.
i see it all as a puke-stain on the history of humanity, having bought into a couple of gross fantasies perpetrated by the system all these men, and sometimes woman, then begin to exhibit guilt traits masked by acts of wanton violence usually spurred by that other ‘must have’ at this time of year, alcohol,
Perhaps there is need for a denialist movement where people who want to turn away from such a consumerist atrocity can gather together to teach each other to simply ignore the day,
Bishop Bad’s Denialist Church of the one and only original sin coming to a town near you…
The rich – “Look, all those people, getting all that free food and being entertained, at places like the City Mission. Wonderful. They are sooo lucky. And here we are at home, the butler and the keep slaving away for hours just to feed us dears for lunch. Oh, where’s the bolly, luv, I need a top up.”
Yes, overnight the plight of the poor will disappear from the face of society as the media focuses on the “Boxing Day” sales, as if this is a great benefit to the nation. Most of that will go on the credit card, only exacerbating the country’s debt.
Wouldn’t it be nice if Councils around the country organised community events that brought people together, in a sharing/caring environment.
Its been a great year financially for the top 20% of households. Can we not be pleased for the middle and upper class of the nation who deserve our thanks and admiration?
just listening to j colins on radio. despite coming fron a party that says you cant define poverty she says her grandmother raised 7 children alibe in rural nz in the 20s ” i poverty” so one minister can defibe poverty.
collibs mother was denied secondary school to help on the farm and ensured her own children got education. i note collins law degree was free with no loan…
interestibg how nat mps use the hardship poverty card to nake it seem like they ubderstand while kicking ladders away right left and ctre.
Either way I’d just like to know why he said it, people can say what they like about me and thats fine but to drag my wife into it and accuse me beating her (which is how I took it) is way below the belt
What has no place ? A comment on which you stamp your meaning and then launch it as mine ? The meaning is yours. I agree. No place.
This is the hoary old chestnut Piss73 trots out every time he’s in a tight spot. For the most recent instance have a look at 5 to 5.1.1.1 above. Sneeringly demands a link , gets it, uh oh, hoary old chestnut time again.
Piss73 – what was it Harry Truman said about kitchens and heat ?
if someone cant dialogue with someone they disagree with without resorting to nasty fiction they have to accept how that makes them look. playing the person not the ball achieves nothing but perpetuates the bs. violence toward women is real and serious and not to be belittled by childlike outbursts on a forum.
Whatever Tracey. Indulge yourself with more of YOUR meaning if it makes you feel good. I never owned YOUR meaning. Do I speak loudly enough for those ears of yours way up there on that high horse ?
Let us (including the hair triggered Tracey) not forget that you Confused, Piss73, Tighty Righty, BM, SS-Lands et al have made a bloody career on TS out of demonising and scandalising. Aggressively prosyletising for hatred against the poor for their insistence (by their mere existence) on sabotaging ShonKey Python’s Brighter Future (ahem).
Variously lazy, fat, live-off -takeaways, irresponsible, plenty of jobs if you want them, stop the underclass breeding, etc etc etc ad absurdum. Scum the lot of them.
This quote from the old boy on Dads Army is so apposite re you and your mates Confused – “………they do not like it up ’em!”
Tough for you, hypocritical wee soldiers of the Prime Mournister. Grow up and learn to take some of your own medicine without clutching your pearls in the mortified style of Dame Edna Everidge.
I’m prepared to punt Confused……..don’t flirt with “simple minded” and “uneducated”. Those particular horses might kick you back very hard.
While the newspapers and other media outlets bang on about and how your successful christmas depends on you consuming massive amounts of food and buying loads of shit for people I like to take a moment every year and play Tim Minchin’s White Wine in the Sun
It’s always how this atheist has felt (since I was 15 and old enough to drink with my parents), and have never been able to articulate properly, until Tim came along and said it more perfectly than I ever could.
Global Warming/ climate change ,BUGGER.
Stuck in the ice, it must have been warmer 100 year ago
”The 30-year-old vessel is part of the Australasian Antarctic Expedition, a voyage organised by a group of scientists to mark the 100-year anniversary of a similar trip by Australian explorer Sir Douglas Mawson.
“After all day yesterday pushing through dense pack ice we came to a point where we could go no further, the ice sheet was unbroken and several metres thick. Today has been frustrating, by this afternoon we were only a few kilometres west of where we had been 24 hours previously.”
Help is on the way.
This lot must believe their own Bull.
Some key quotes from this article for us in New Zealand.
“What we’ve been realising for some time now is that, for all the team sport rhetoric, only two sides are really at play in Britain and beyond: Team Super-Rich and Team Everyone Else.”
“The rich are not merely different: they’ve become a cult which drafts us as members. We are invited to deceive ourselves into believing we are playing for the same stakes while worshipping the same ideals, a process labelled “aspiration”. ”
” The adulation of royalty is not a harmless anachronism; it is calculated totem worship that only entrenches the bizarre notion that some people are rich simply because they are more deserving but somehow they are still just like us.”
“Cults rely on spectacles of opulence intended to stoke an obsessive veneration for riches.”
“Cue the predictable charge of “class envy” or what Boris Johnson dismisses as “bashing or moaning or preaching or bitching”. Issued by its high priests, this brand of condemnation is integral to the cult of the rich. We must repeat the mantra that the greed of a few means prosperity for all. ”
“Cultish thinking means that the stupendously rich who throw small slivers of their fortunes at charity… … become instant saints.”
“The cult of the rich propounds the idea that vast economic inequalities are both natural and just: the winner who takes most is, like any cult hero, just more intelligent and deserving, even when inherited affluence gives them a head start.”
“The demonising of the poor is the flip side of the cult of the rich.”
” It is time to change it through reality checks, not reality shows.”
As commentators on the article pointed out it is a complex problem. But a rally cry is needed and this is it. One solution to inequality is to make capital’s return worth less and labour’s return worth more. A person’s very existence can be valued in providing a universal basic income. Society is wealthy enough to do this. The evidence is the excessive consumption and wealth. Wealth needs to be redistributed more evenly.
I continue to be amazed at how the constant dangling of the carrot of more money is enough for people to vote against their own best interests. In some case for decades.
I continue to be amazed at how the constant dangling of the carrot of more money is enough for people to vote against their own best interests. In some case for decades.
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The Labour Party has called for the New Zealand Government to recognise Palestine, as a material step towards progressing the two-State solution needed to achieve a lasting peace in the region. ...
Some of our country’s most important work, stopping the sexual exploitation of children and violent extremism could go along with staff on the frontline at ports and airports. ...
The Government’s Fast Track Approvals Bill will give projects such as new coal mines a ‘get out of jail free’ card to wreak havoc on the environment, Labour Leader Chris Hipkins said today. ...
Cuts to frontline hospital staff are not only a broken election promise, it shows the reckless tax cuts have well and truly hit the frontline of the health system, says Labour Health spokesperson Ayesha Verrall. ...
The Green Party has joined the call for public submissions on the fast-track legislation to be extended after the Ombudsman forced the Government to release the list of organisations invited to apply just hours before submissions close. ...
New Zealand’s good work at reducing climate emissions for three years in a row will be undone by the National government’s lack of ambition and scrapping programmes that were making a difference, Labour Party climate spokesperson Megan Woods said today. ...
More essential jobs could be on the chopping block, this time Ministry of Education staff on the school lunches team are set to find out whether they're in line to lose their jobs. ...
The Government is trying to bring in a law that will allow Ministers to cut corners and kill off native species, Labour environment spokesperson Rachel Brooking said. ...
Cancelling urgently needed new Cook Strait ferries and hiking the cost of public transport for many Kiwis so that National can announce the prospect of another tunnel for Wellington is not making good choices, Labour Transport Spokesperson Tangi Utikere said. ...
A laundry list of additional costs for Tāmaki Makarau Auckland shows the Minister for the city is not delivering for the people who live there, says Labour Auckland Issues spokesperson Shanan Halbert. ...
The Green Party has today launched a step-by-step guide to help New Zealanders make their voice heard on the Government’s democracy dodging and anti-environment fast track legislation. ...
The National Government’s proposed changes to the Residential Tenancies Act will mean tenants can be turfed from their homes by landlords with little notice, Labour housing spokesperson Kieran McAnulty said. ...
Green Party co-leader Marama Davidson is calling on all parties to support a common-sense change that’s great for the planet and great for consumers after her member’s bill was drawn from the ballot today. ...
A significant milestone has been reached in the fight to strike an anti-Pasifika and unfair law from the country’s books after Teanau Tuiono’s members’ bill passed its first reading. ...
New Zealand has today missed the opportunity to uphold the right to a clean, healthy, and sustainable environment, says James Shaw after his member’s bill was voted down in its first reading. ...
Today’s advice from the Climate Change Commission paints a sobering reality of the challenge we face in combating climate change, especially in light of recent Government policy announcements. ...
Minister for Disability Issues Penny Simmonds appears to have delayed a report back to Cabinet on the progress New Zealand is making against international obligations for disabled New Zealanders. ...
The Government’s newly announced review of methane emissions reduction targets hints at its desire to delay Aotearoa New Zealand’s urgent transition to a climate safe future, the Green Party said. ...
Mai ia tawhiti pamamao, te moana nui a Kiwa, kua tae whakaiti mai matou, ki to koutou papa whenua. No koutou te tapuwae, no matou te tapuwae, kua honoa pumautia. Ko nga toa kua hinga nei, o te Waipounamu, o te Ika a Maui, he okioki tahi me o ...
Paul Goldsmith will take on responsibility for the Media and Communications portfolio, while Louise Upston will pick up the Disability Issues portfolio, Prime Minister Christopher Luxon announced today. “Our Government is relentlessly focused on getting New Zealand back on track. As issues change in prominence, I plan to adjust Ministerial ...
Recreational catch limits will be reduced in areas of Fiordland and the Chatham Islands to help keep those fisheries healthy and sustainable, Oceans and Fisheries Minister Shane Jones says. The lower recreational daily catch limits for a range of finfish and shellfish species caught in the Fiordland Marine Area and ...
Energy Minister Simeon Brown has welcomed an important milestone in New Zealand’s hydrogen future, with the opening of the country’s first network of hydrogen refuelling stations in Wiri. “I want to congratulate the team at Hiringa Energy and its partners K one W one (K1W1), Mitsui & Co New Zealand ...
The coalition Government is delivering on its commitment to improve resource management laws and give greater certainty to consent applicants, with a Bill to amend the Resource Management Act (RMA) expected to be introduced to Parliament next month. RMA Reform Minister Chris Bishop has today outlined the first RMA Amendment ...
Overseas models for regulating the oil and gas sector, including their decommissioning regimes, are being carefully scrutinised as a potential template for New Zealand’s own sector, Resources Minister Shane Jones says. The Coalition Government is focused on rebuilding investor confidence in New Zealand’s energy sector as it looks to strengthen ...
Emergency Management and Recovery Minister Mark Mitchell has today released the Report of the Government Inquiry into the response to the North Island Severe Weather Events. “The report shows that New Zealand’s emergency management system is not fit-for-purpose and there are some significant gaps we need to address,” Mr Mitchell ...
Justice Minister Paul Goldsmith is today travelling to Europe where he’ll update the United Nations Human Rights Council on the Government’s work to restore law and order. “Attending the Universal Periodic Review in Geneva provides us with an opportunity to present New Zealand’s human rights progress, priorities, and challenges, while ...
Associate Agriculture Minister, Mark Patterson, formally reopened the world’s largest wool processing facility today in Awatoto, Napier, following a $50 million rebuild and refurbishment project. “The reopening of this facility will significantly lift the economic opportunities available to New Zealand’s wool sector, which already accounts for 20 per cent of ...
Hon Andrew Bayly, Minister for Small Business and Manufacturing At the Southland Otago Regional Engineering Collective (SOREC) Summit, 18 April, Dunedin Ngā mihi nui, Ko Andrew Bayly aho, Ko Whanganui aho Good Afternoon and thank you for inviting me to open your summit today. I am delighted ...
The Government is delivering on its commitment to bring back the Three Strikes legislation, Associate Justice Minister Nicole McKee announced today. “Our Government is committed to restoring law and order and enforcing appropriate consequences on criminals. We are making it clear that repeat serious violent or sexual offending is not ...
Foreign Minister Winston Peters has today announced four new diplomatic appointments for New Zealand’s overseas missions. “Our diplomats have a vital role in maintaining and protecting New Zealand’s interests around the world,” Mr Peters says. “I am pleased to announce the appointment of these senior diplomats from the ...
New Zealand is contributing NZ$7 million to support communities affected by severe food insecurity and other urgent humanitarian needs in Ethiopia and Somalia, Foreign Minister Rt Hon Winston Peters announced today. “Over 21 million people are in need of humanitarian assistance across Ethiopia, with a further 6.9 million people ...
Minister for Arts, Culture and Heritage Paul Goldsmith is congratulating Mataaho Collective for winning the Golden Lion for best participant in the main exhibition at the Venice Biennale. "Congratulations to the Mataaho Collective for winning one of the world's most prestigious art prizes at the Venice Biennale. “It is good ...
The Government is reforming financial services to improve access to home loans and other lending, and strengthen customer protections, Commerce and Consumer Affairs Minister Andrew Bayly and Housing Minister Chris Bishop announced today. “Our coalition Government is committed to rebuilding the economy and making life simpler by cutting red tape. We are ...
“China remains a strong commercial opportunity for Kiwi exporters as Chinese businesses and consumers continue to value our high-quality safe produce,” Trade and Agriculture Minister Todd McClay says. Mr McClay has returned to New Zealand following visits to Beijing, Harbin and Shanghai where he met ministers, governors and mayors and engaged in trade and agricultural events with the New ...
Prime Minister Christopher Luxon has completed a successful trip to Singapore, Thailand and the Philippines, deepening relationships and capitalising on opportunities. Mr Luxon was accompanied by a business delegation and says the choice of countries represents the priority the New Zealand Government places on South East Asia, and our relationships in ...
New Zealand is demonstrating its commitment to reducing global greenhouse emissions, and supporting clean energy transition in South East Asia, through a contribution of NZ$41 million (US$25 million) in climate finance to the Asian Development Bank (ADB)-led Energy Transition Mechanism (ETM). Prime Minister Christopher Luxon and Climate Change Minister Simon Watts announced ...
The Government is today releasing a list of organisations who received letters about the Fast-track applications process, says RMA Reform Minister Chris Bishop. “Recently Ministers and agencies have received a series of OIA requests for a list of organisations to whom I wrote with information on applying to have a ...
Attorney-General Judith Collins today announced the appointment of Wellington Barrister David Jonathan Boldt as a Judge of the High Court, and the Honourable Justice Matthew Palmer as a Judge of the Court of Appeal. Justice Boldt graduated with an LLB from Victoria University of Wellington in 1990, and also holds ...
Education Minister Erica Stanford will lead the New Zealand delegation at the 2024 International Summit on the Teaching Profession (ISTP) held in Singapore. The delegation includes representatives from the Post Primary Teachers’ Association (PPTA) Te Wehengarua and the New Zealand Educational Institute (NZEI) Te Riu Roa. The summit is co-hosted ...
A stopbank upgrade project in Tairawhiti partly funded by the Government has increased flood resilience for around 7000ha of residential and horticultural land so far, Regional Development Minister Shane Jones says. Mr Jones today attended a dawn service in Gisborne to mark the end of the first stage of the ...
Foreign Affairs Minister Winston Peters will represent the Government at Anzac Day commemorations on the Gallipoli Peninsula next week and engage with senior representatives of the Turkish government in Istanbul. “The Gallipoli campaign is a defining event in our history. It will be a privilege to share the occasion ...
Science, Innovation and Technology and Defence Minister Judith Collins will next week attend the OECD Science and Technology Ministerial conference in Paris and Anzac Day commemorations in Belgium. “Science, innovation and technology have a major role to play in rebuilding our economy and achieving better health, environmental and social outcomes ...
Prime Minister Christopher Luxon held a bilateral meeting today with the President of the Philippines, Ferdinand Marcos Jr. The Prime Minister was accompanied by MP Paulo Garcia, the first Filipino to be elected to a legislature outside the Philippines. During today’s meeting, Prime Minister Luxon and President Marcos Jr discussed opportunities to ...
The Government has announced that $20 million in funding will be made available to Westport to fund much needed flood protection around the town. This measure will significantly improve the resilience of the community, says Local Government Minister Simeon Brown. “The Westport community has already been allocated almost $3 million ...
The Government is proud to support the first ever Repco Supercars Championship event in Taupō as up to 70,000 motorsport fans attend the Taupō International Motorsport Park this weekend, says Economic Development Minister Melissa Lee. “Anticipation for the ITM Taupō Super400 is huge, with tickets and accommodation selling out weeks ...
Local Government Minister Simeon Brown has announced an increase to the Rates Rebate Scheme, putting money back into the pockets of low-income homeowners. “The coalition Government is committed to bringing down the cost of living for New Zealanders. That includes targeted support for those Kiwis who are doing things tough, such ...
The Coalition Government is investing in a project to boost survival rates of New Zealand mussels and grow the industry, Oceans and Fisheries Minister Shane Jones has announced. “This project seeks to increase the resilience of our mussels and significantly boost the sector’s productivity,” Mr Jones says. “The project - ...
Benefit figures released today underscore the importance of the Government’s plan to rebuild the economy and have 50,000 fewer people on Jobseeker Support, Social Development and Employment Minister Louise Upston says. “Benefit numbers are still significantly higher than when National was last in government, when there was about 70,000 fewer ...
The Government’s commitment to doubling New Zealand’s renewable energy capacity is backed by new data showing that clean energy has helped the country reach its lowest annual gross emissions since 1999, Climate Change Minister Simon Watts says. New Zealand’s latest Greenhouse Gas Inventory (1990-2022) published today, shows gross emissions fell ...
The Government is bringing the earthquake-prone building review forward, with work to start immediately, and extending the deadline for remediations by four years, Building and Construction Minister Chris Penk says. “Our Government is focused on rebuilding the economy. A key part of our plan is to cut red tape that ...
Prime Minister Christopher Luxon and his Thai counterpart, Prime Minister Srettha Thavisin, have today agreed that New Zealand and the Kingdom of Thailand will upgrade the bilateral relationship to a Strategic Partnership by 2026. “New Zealand and Thailand have a lot to offer each other. We have a strong mutual desire to build ...
RMA Reform Minister Chris Bishop and Transport Minister Simeon Brown have today announced the Coalition Government’s intention to extend port coastal permits for a further 20 years, providing port operators with certainty to continue their operations. “The introduction of the Resource Management Act in 1991 required ports to obtain coastal ...
Today’s announcement that inflation is down to 4 per cent is encouraging news for Kiwis, but there is more work to be done - underlining the importance of the Government’s plan to get the economy back on track, acting Finance Minister Chris Bishop says. “Inflation is now at 4 per ...
Refreshed health guidance released today will help parents and schools make informed decisions about whether their child needs to be in school, addressing one of the key issues affecting school attendance, says Associate Education Minister David Seymour. In recent years, consistently across all school terms, short-term illness or medical reasons ...
Oceans and Fisheries Minister Shane Jones is streamlining high-level oceans management while maintaining a focus on supporting the sector’s role in the export-led recovery of the economy. “I am working to realise the untapped potential of our fishing and aquaculture sector. To achieve that we need to be smarter with ...
Associate Agriculture Minister Mark Patterson is speaking at the International Wool Textile Organisation Congress in Adelaide, promoting New Zealand wool, and outlining the coalition Government’s support for the revitalisation the sector. "New Zealand’s wool exports reached $400 million in the year to 30 June 2023, and the coalition Government ...
The Government is making legislative changes to make it easier for new early learning services to be established, and for existing services to operate, Associate Education Minister David Seymour says. The changes involve repealing the network approval provisions that apply when someone wants to establish a new early learning service, ...
Changes to the Resource Management Act will align consenting for coal mining to other forms of mining to reduce barriers that are holding back economic development, Resources Minister Shane Jones says. “The inconsistent treatment of coal mining compared with other extractive activities is burdensome red tape that fails to acknowledge ...
Asia Pacific Report Chief Mandla Mandela, a member of the National Assembly of South Africa and Nelson Mandela’s grandson, has joined the Freedom Flotilla in istanbul as the ships prepare to sail for Gaza, reports Kia Ora Gaza. Mandela is also the ambassador for the Global Campaign to Return to ...
Pacific Media Watch Journalists who report on environmental issues are encountering growing difficulties in many parts of the world, reports Reporters Without Borders. According to the tally kept by RSF, 200 journalists have been subjected to threats and physical violence, including murder, in the past 10 years because they were ...
Analysis by Dr Bryce Edwards, Democracy Project (https://democracyproject.nz)Political scientist, Dr Bryce Edwards. Prime Minister Christopher Luxon has surprised everyone with his ruthlessness in sacking two of his ministers from their crucial portfolios. Removing ministers for poor performance after only five months in the job just doesn’t normally happen in ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By John Hawkins, Senior Lecturer, Canberra School of Politics, Economics and Society, University of Canberra BagzhanSadvakassov/Upsplash, CC BY-SA Australia’s inflation rate has fallen for the fifth successive quarter, and it’s now less than half of what it was back in late 2022. ...
ACT's Rural Communities and Veterans spokesman Mark Cameron responds to cancellations and protests of ANZAC Day commemorations in Wellington. He says, "These pitiful attempts to detract from ANZAC Day are not at all indicative of the feelings of mainstream ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Meighen McCrae, Associate Professor of Strategic & Defence Studies, Australian National University American and Australian stretcher bearers working together near the front line during the Battle of Hamel in 1918.Australian War Memorial While the AUKUS alliance is new, the Australian-American partnership ...
Pōneke based peace activists staged a silent protest at the ANZAC day service to highlight New Zealand’s complicity in war and genocide, and urge the government to take concrete steps to stop the genocide in Palestine. ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Magdalena M.E. Bunbury, Postdoctoral Researcher, James Cook University Burial with a horse at the Rákóczifalva site, Hungary (8th century AD).Sándor Hegedűs, Hungarian National Museum, CC BY How do we understand past societies? For centuries, our main sources of information have been ...
Amanda Thompson doesn’t really do Anzac Day. But what she does do is remember the people she knew who had a lifetime to remember stuff they didn’t really want to, because of a war they didn’t ask for. And she does make Anzac biscuits.First published in 2021.All my ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Kathryn Willis, Postdoctoral Researcher, CSIRO Xavier Boulenger/Shutterstock In the two decades to 2019, global plastic production doubled. By 2040, plastic manufacturing and processing could consume as much as 20% of global oil production and use up 15% of the annual carbon ...
With our collective remembrance, and steadfast belief in our common humanity, we strengthen our hope and resolve to do what we can to foster dialogue and understanding, and to heal divisions in our pursuit of peace. ...
Principal reasons for the opposition is the loss of the public’s democratic right to have “a fair say” and the vital need for a government free from corruption, said Casey Cravens of Dunedin, president of the New Zealand Federation of Freshwater ...
Never mind the scoreboard – in the 2000 Bledisloe Cup decider, the real trans-Tasman battle was won before kickoff.First published in 2016. The dawn of the new millennium was a dark time for the All Blacks. Their final game pre-Y2K was a 22-18 loss to South Africa in the ...
I’m on the wrong side of 40, I never pursued creative work and now my job is killing my soul. Help! Want Hera’s help? Email your problem to helpme@thespinoff.co.nzDear Hera,May I start with the least original conversation opener you’re likely to hear around the motu at the moment, particularly in Wellington: ...
“Never again - No AUKUS” was the message of the wreath laid at this morning’s national ANZAC Day commemorative service at Pukeahu National War Memorial Park this morning by the Stop AUKUS group. ...
Until this month, Auckland swimmer Hazel Ouwehand had never met a qualifying time in an Olympic event for a New Zealand team, even as a junior. Now she’s very likely off to the Paris Olympics after swimming well under the qualifying standard in the 100m butterfly twice – both in ...
While Anzac Day has experienced a resurgence in recent years, our other day of remembrance has slowly faded from view.The Sunday Essay is made possible thanks to the support of Creative New Zealand. Original illustrations by Hope McConnell.First published in 2022.The high school’s head girl and ...
Australian and New Zealand volunteers fought together in the Waikato War, yet still its place in the Anzac tradition is unacknowledged by our defence forces or Returned Services Association.First published in 2018.When I was a boy cub I attended Anzac Day services in the South Auckland suburb of ...
A poem by Wellington writer Tayi Tibble.Hoki Mai She kisses him goodbye with her eyes still wet and alight from their last swim in the Awatere river. At the train station celebration, she leads the Kapa Haka but her voice keeps breaking under and over itself like waves. ...
A poem from Bill Manhire’s 2017 book of verse Some Things to Place in a Coffin.My World War I Poem Inside each trench, the sound of prayer. Inside each prayer, the sound of digging. Image courtesy of Auckland War Memorial Museum. ...
There are three books I have wolfed down in one sitting over the last two years. Colleen Maria Lenihan’s gorgeous and sad debut Kōhine, Noelle McCarthy’s memoir Grand about becoming her mother and then unbecoming her, and now Hine Toa, a staunch yet gentle self-portrait by living legend Ngāhuia te ...
Loading…(function(i,s,o,g,r,a,m){var ql=document.querySelectorAll('A[quiz],DIV[quiz],A[data-quiz],DIV[data-quiz]'); if(ql){if(ql.length){for(var k=0;k<ql.length;k++){ql[k].id='quiz-embed-'+k;ql[k].href="javascript:var i=document.getElementById('quiz-embed-"+k+"');try{qz.startQuiz(i)}catch(e){i.start=1;i.style.cursor='wait';i.style.opacity='0.5'};void(0);"}}};i['QP']=r;i[r]=i[r]||function(){(i[r].q=i[r].q||[]).push(arguments)},i[r].l=1*new Date();a=s.createElement(o),m=s.getElementsByTagName(o)[0];a.async=1;a.src=g;m.parentNode.insertBefore(a,m)})(window,document,'script','https://take.quiz-maker.com/3012/CDN/quiz-embed-v1.js','qp'); Got a good quiz question?Send Newsroom your questions. The post Newsroom daily quiz, Thursday 25 April appeared first on Newsroom. ...
Asia Pacific Report Students and activist staff at Australia’s University of Sydney (USyd) have set up a Gaza solidarity encampment in support of Palestinians and similar student-led protests in the United States. The camp was pitched as mass graves, crippled hospitals, thousands of civilian deaths and the near-total destruction of ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By James B. Dorey, Lecturer in Biological Sciences, University of Wollongong Australian teddy bear bees are cute and fluffy, but get a look at that massive (unbarbed) stinger! James Dorey Photography Most of us have been stung by a bee and we ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Jen Roberts, Senior Lecturer, School of Humanities and Social Inquiry, University of Wollongong Aussie~mobs/FlickrVictor Farr, a private in the 1st Infantry Battalion, was among the first to land at Anzac Cove just before dawn on April 25 1915. Victor Farr ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Gregory Moore, Senior Research Associate, School of Ecosystem and Forest Sciences, The University of Melbourne Gregory Moore I had the good fortune to care for the sugar gum at The University of Melbourne’s Burnley Gardens in Victoria where I worked for ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By John Hawkins, Senior Lecturer, Canberra School of Politics, Economics and Society, University of Canberra BagzhanSadvakassov/Upsplash, CC BY-SA Australia’s inflation rate has fallen for the fifth successive quarter, and it’s now less than half of what it was back in late 2022. ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Rachel Ong ViforJ, ARC Future Fellow & Professor of Economics, Curtin University Just when we think the price of rentals could not get any worse, this week’s Rental Affordability Snapshot by Anglicare has revealed low-income Australians are facing a housing crisis like ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Meighen McCrae, Associate Professor of Strategic & Defence Studies, Australian National University American and Australian stretcher bearers working together near the front line during the Battle of Hamel in 1918.Australian War Memorial While the AUKUS alliance is new, the Australian-American partnership ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Tracey Holmes, Professorial Fellow in Sport, University of Canberra When the news broke last weekend that 23 Chinese swimmers had tested positive to a banned drug in early 2021 and were allowed to compete at the Tokyo Olympic Games six months later ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Cally Jetta, Senior Lecturer and Academic Lead; College for First Nations, University of Southern Queensland Australian War MemorialAboriginal and Torres Strait Islander readers are advised this article contains names and images of deceased people, as well as sensitive historical information ...
RNZ News Melissa Lee has been ousted from New Zealand’s coalition cabinet and stripped of the Media portfolio, and Penny Simmonds has lost the Disability Issues portfolio in a reshuffle. Climate Change and Revenue Minister Simon Watts will take Lee’s spot in cabinet. Simmonds was a minister outside of cabinet. ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By David Lindenmayer, Professor, Fenner School of Environment and Society, Australian National University laurello/Shutterstock Some reports and popular books, such as Bill Gammage’s Biggest Estate on Earth, have argued that extensive areas of Australia’s forests were kept open through frequent burning by ...
Analysis - Christopher Luxon framing the demotion of two ministers as the portfolios getting "too complex" is a charitable way of saying they weren't up to the job. ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Michelle Grattan, Professorial Fellow, University of Canberra With Jim Chalmers’s third budget on May 14, Australians will be looking for some more cost-of-living relief – beyond the tax cuts – although they have been warned extra measures will be modest. As ...
Analysis: Melissa Lee has lost the media portfolio and her spot in Cabinet after multiple failed attempts to find solutions for a media industry in crisis. On Wednesday, the Prime Minister announced Lee would be losing her spot in Cabinet along with her media and communications ministerial portfolio. The job ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Simon Wilmot, Senior Lecturer, Film, Deakin University Among the many Australian who served during the second world war, there is a small group of people whose stories remain largely untold. These are the Muslim men and women who, while small in number, ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Kelly Saunders, PhD Candidate, University of Canberra There has been much analysis and praise of Justice Michael Lee’s recent judgement in Bruce Lehrmann’s defamation case against Channel Ten. Many people were openly relieved to read Lee’s “forensic” and “nuanced” application of law ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Kathy Gibbs, Program Director for the Bachelor of Education, Griffith University zEdward_Indy/Shutterstock Around one in 20 people has attention-deficit hyperactivity disorder (ADHD). It’s one of the most common neurodevelopmental disorders in childhood and often continues into adulthood. ADHD is diagnosed ...
The Fairer Future coalition of anti-poverty groups say Whaikaha must be properly funded going forward, and that to argue that poor financial management of the new Ministry is a red herring by the Prime Minister. ...
The Taxpayers’ Union is today congratulating Hon. Paul Goldsmith on his appointment as Minister for Media and Communications and urges him to rule out state intervention in the private media sector. ...
Asia Pacific Report The West Papuan resistance OPM leader has condemned Australian Prime Minister Anthony Albanese and US President Joe Biden, accusing their countries of “six decades of treachery” over Papuan independence. The open letter was released today by OPM chairman Jeffrey P Bomanak on the eve of ANZAC Day ...
Welcome to The Spinoff Books Confessional, in which we get to know the reading habits and quirks of New Zealanders at large. This week: writer and one of Time Magazine’s 100 most influential people of 2024, Lauren Groff.The book I wish I’d writtenIf I wish I’d written a ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By David Fechner, Research Fellow, Social Marketing, Griffith University mavo/Shutterstock Imagine having dinner at a restaurant. The menu offers plant-based meat alternatives made mostly from vegetables, mushrooms, legumes and wheat that mimic meat in taste, texture and smell. Despite being given that ...
“Three Strikes is a dead-end policy proposed by a dead-end government. The Three Strikes law ignores the causes of crime, instead just brutalising people already crushed by the cost of living.” ...
By Don Wiseman, RNZ Pacific senior journalist An Australian-born judge in Kiribati could well face deportation later this week after a tribunal ruling that he should be removed from his post. The tribunal’s report has just been tabled in the Kiribati Parliament and is due to be debated by MPs ...
With its clear mandate for police use, political nuances, and nuanced public trust, Denmark's insights provide valuable considerations for Australia and New Zealand. ...
Books editor Claire Mabey reviews poet Louise Wallace’s debut novel. A famous poet once said to me that he’s always suspicious when a poet publishes a novel. I never really understood why but maybe it’s something to do with cheating on your first form. Louise Wallace is a poet. She’s ...
For a few months at the turn of the millennium, TrueBliss burned bright as the biggest pop stars in the country. Alex Casey chats to two superfans who still hold the flame. During a humble backyard wedding in Nelson, 1999, one of the cordially invited guests had to excuse themselves ...
How will the recent wave of job cuts impact ethnic diversity in the media? In November last year, I was working a very busy day in the newsroom of a large online news site, interviewing whānau about their concerns over the imminent closure of one of the few puna reo ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Ruth Knight, Researcher, Queensland University of Technology Have you ever felt sick at work? Perhaps you had food poisoning or the flu. Your belly hurt, or you felt tired, making it hard to concentrate and be productive. How likely would you be ...
Despite heavy criticism and an ongoing select committee process, the Police Minister says the Government will forge ahead with a ban on gang patches. ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Sam Whiting, Lecturer – Creative Industries, University of South Australia Shutterstock Everyone has a favourite band, or a favourite composer, or a favourite song. There is some music which speaks to you, deeply; and other music which might be the current ...
A new survey says ‘outlook not great’ for those charged with building infrastructure, while RMA changes delight farmers and depress environmentalists, writes Anna Rawhiti-Connell in this excerpt from The Bulletin, The Spinoff’s morning news round-up. To receive The Bulletin in full each weekday, sign up here. First RMA changes announced ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Olli Hellmann, Associate Professor of Political Science, University of Waikato Getty Images When New Zealanders commemorate Anzac Day on April 25, it’s not only to honour the soldiers who lost their lives in World War I and subsequent conflicts, but also ...
A leaked document shows the Canterbury/Waitaha arm of health agency Te Whatu Ora is scurrying to save $13.3 million by July. The “financial sustainability target”, which was “allocated” to Waitaha, is consistent with what’s happening in other districts, says Sarah Dalton, executive director of the Association of Salaried Medical Specialists. ...
http://www.alternet.org/massive-inequality-didnt-just-happen-it-was-engineered-conservative-government-policies
“..Inequality is the result of a whole range of policies-
– intended to redistribute income upward..”
phillip ure..
Yes, good article and see a related problem re education opportunities in this country as I mention below.
Great article by Frank Macskasy over on the daily blog about how National are purposefully bringing in lower wages.
placing downward pressure on wages is and always has been part of the standard wealth redistribution policy of the Right.
This most commonly comes in the form of relaxed immigration policy or legislation around labor laws
this one is pretty cool..
Astonishing Photographs Of Drugs Prove Substances Look Just Like They Feel
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/12/23/sarah-schoenfeld_n_4481493.html?utm_hp_ref=mostpopular
and yep..!..caffeine is also in there..(and very spiky it is..)
..and the lsd one is just so very..lsd…
..eh..?
phillip ure..
Or for some viral nasties and an insect/bug or 3 try these
http://www.livescience.com/19060-gallery-microscopic-images-viruses-bacteria-insects.html
I always thought that that caffeine was nasty looking shit.
A few days ago I was talking to someone, who, a few years back had started taking lessons to learn to read properly after having spent a lifetime hiding the fact that he had come out of school without being able to do so (probably due to dyslexia). Not being able to read stopped him from being able to do many things including many types of jobs.
He was enjoying the lessons and obviously feeling more empowered and optimistic about his future.
I asked him whether he was still doing these lessons.
No
Why?
Government cut the funds that paid for his lessons.
I am furious.
What advantage is there in removing the opportunity for people to learn such a necessary skill??
I am also aware that over 40 year olds have had 2 years of student allowance support removed. Too bad if they want to retrain after having a family – they can only do so if they are prepared to take on substantially more debt.
How is removing assistance, i.e. effectively discouraging people from education, an advantage to any New Zealander? Or New Zealand as a whole?
It is not.
While these types of cuts have been occurring, politicians have been waxing lyrical about needing to ‘upgrade’ one’s skills to get better paid jobs [implicitly: it is low waged peoples’ fault for being poor due to not having done so] and blathering on about the great need for New Zealand to become a high skill economy.
This is complete and utter shite: politicians, in their well-paid jobs, are obstructing ‘upskilling’ from occurring [they are also very quick to import skilled workers while dragging their heels when it comes to supporting and encouraging New Zealanders to gain these skills. ]
So next time English is trumpeting how ‘healthy’ the books are [which they are not] do spare a thought for all the people who have lost the opportunity to learn something new and develop their chances of earning a decent livelihood and becoming more engaged and more part of this society.
And who wants to be part of a society where obstructions are placed in the way of people in less fortunate circumstances from getting an education?
No wonder people aren’t voting.
and in other age-related assistance cut-off news..
..if you are going to get glaucoma..make sure you do it before age 60..eh..?
..;cos..if you get glaucoma after age 60..
..the govt/health services will just tell you .. to go blind..
..and can i ask..why the fuck aren’t greypower all over issues like this..?
..why aren’t they doing their job..?
..w.t.f. do they do all day..?
..phillip ure..
Good questions
I’m getting really cross.
Who the hell supports these policies?
And is the main opposition party going to stick to what Cunliffe won the leadership on or simply vacillate and water it down?
You don’t need to be able to read to clean toilets or dig ditches. If you really can’t get your shit together enough to part fund your own education then maybe you are better suited to menial work. Not everyone can be part of the knowledge economy. It’s natural that some people do better than others, and there are natural stratas in human societies that need to be respected.
“Who the hell supports these policies?”
People who think like what I just wrote, even if they don’t formulate it so bluntly. And the middle classes who are now afraid that they will be next so support whatever gives them short and medium term gain. Plus the many in the middle classes who lack any useful or meaningful understanding of class and so are more easily led by State and MSM funded prejudice.
@ Weka
Yeah, sadly I think you are probably quite right there.
There is a real paradox in the way of thinking you so accurately give an example of.
When low wages are the issue blame is placed on people for not having pursued an education yet when education is the issue and serious obstacles are being placed in the way of people getting an education there is this message that ‘maybe they are better suited to ‘menial’ jobs anyway (like you have given in your example).
Both issues get ‘rationalised’ away (closer to ‘irrationalised, really isn’t it?) by the two different arguments and neither issue is addressed.
The people who think like that need to get it together and realise that there is an increasing amount of government subsidisation of low waged workers and that increasing the obstacles to people gaining an education leads to less chances for people to get out of the poverty rut.
In both cases – low wages, and low education opportunities – it costs the taxpayer. Either in the rent/ health/ wage subsidies or welfare benefits, not to mention the effects of a whole swathe of New Zealanders who are not reaching their potential.
Wouldn’t it be better to have people studying than stuck on the dole for years on end losing all motivation and hope? Wouldn’t it be better for people to be on a wage that covered their costs without government assistance? Wouldn’t it be better for the government to be encouraging education rather than creating major obstacles and keeping them in a poverty trap?
“In both cases – low wages, and low education opportunities – it costs the taxpayer. Either in the rent/ health/ wage subsidies or welfare benefits, not to mention the effects of a whole swathe of New Zealanders who are not reaching their potential.”
Except the obvious solution there (for selfish people) is to privatise and/or cut funding to those areas of govt spending. Problem solved.
“Wouldn’t it be better to have people studying than stuck on the dole for years on end losing all motivation and hope? Wouldn’t it be better for people to be on a wage that covered their costs without government assistance? Wouldn’t it be better for the government to be encouraging education rather than creating major obstacles and keeping them in a poverty trap?”
Maybe bl, but I’m not convinced by the education for everyone as a solution to unemployment argument. The problem in the past was that education was prioritised for certain classes of people and denied others. Then there was the drive to get everyone into tertiary education because that would improve employment opportunities. But it doesn’t matter if eveyone in NZ has a degree if there still aren’t enough jobs to go around. That tertiary drive also coincided with messing with the apprenticeship schemes and doing things like making all nursing training a degree course. That reduced educational opportunities, by reducing diversity and making education more expensive for the individual and government.
I guess it really depends on what you mean by education. Personally I think we should accept permanent unemployment and shift to a supportive state whereby people on the dole and other benefits are able to supplement their income, and are also supported to use their time in the way that they see fit – it might be formal education, or it might be voluntary work. Or it might be sitting at home writing poetry, or helping a mate fix his car. Or people getting together and growing food or providing childcare for the neighbourhood or extended whanau. Lots of ways that people can meaningfully spend their time.
btw, I think the situation your friend was in is heinous and there is absolutely no excuse for a country like NZ to not be providing free, extenstive literacy support for all people that live here that need it.
In terms of the poverty trap/employment issues, this is tricky. In an ideal world I would support what most here talk about in terms of solutions to that. But AGW/PO/GFC issues are arriving pretty fast and we simply won’t have enough resources for everyone in NZ to live a comfortable middle class life style. Much of the narrative seems driven by chasing the middle class dream, but I’d like to see a discussion of what are basic human rights, and what are the basic human needs in NZ that can be met sustainably. We can do broad strokes pretty easily (housing, food, healthcare), but when we get down to the nitty gritty, it’s not that straightforward. Then there is the small matter of convincing the middle classes and the consumer working class that they will have to reduce their footprint and lifestyles…
(I’ve been interrupted …will respond to this though Weka)
The problem was that we left the job to “the market” which, inevitably, failed to create the work that those tertiary educated people should have been doing. To create those jobs you actually need the government to step in and fund them – just as the US and the UK does although the UK doesn’t do as well as the US. Those jobs are in R&D.
All the market will produce is more service sector jobs and there’s even a limit to those because of the needed ratio of people who need services to those who supply them must be high. Also, as productivity increases and “the market” fails to produce high paying jobs then wages in the service sector will continue to drop as less people get employed in high paying jobs.
A Universal Income.
“A Universal Income.”
Yes, as an ideal. However I’m increasingly of the opinion that we no longer have the possibility of intelligent state level change before the full force of AGW/PO/GFC hits. By contrast, changing approaches to the unemployed seems somewhat doable.
“Those jobs are in R&D.”
Someone still has to clean the toilets though, and there is no need for a degree education for that. Plus there are more jobs needed than R and D could usefully supply. Lots of other jobs that don’t need a 3 year degree to be learnt and done well.
But there is in developing machinery to remove the need for someone to clean toilets.
Incorrect. R&D is a job and a necessary one. It is R&D that will research and develop our economy to be sustainable.
Besides, a society where there is only work is a rather boring society – we need time to relax and socialise as well.
I don’t think it is possible to replace all jobs with machines (and am yet to see a machine cleaned toilet that works well).
“Incorrect. R&D is a job and a necessary one. It is R&D that will research and develop our economy to be sustainable.”
Please reread what I wrote, because I didn’t way that R and D is not a necessity.
Not yet but that’s why we have R&D.
No, you said that it won’t supply all jobs but I disagree. If people don’t have a job then they should be in R&D or Arts & Craft rather than being shunted onto the unemployment benefit. The only way that this can happen though is if the government funds it. My preferred scenario would be for people to continually switch between R&D and practical work while engaging in continual learning.
But not everyone on the dole is going to want to do R and D or be suited to it. (And you didn’t say Arts and Craft first time round). Why limit to R and D or Arts and Craft?
I suppose it also depends on what you mean by R and D, and why you would separate it out. For instance, many gardeners I know practice R and D, but not formally. Are you suggesting that people on the dole could formalise that somehow rather than becoming gardeners themselves?
It is actually a little hard to understand what point you are trying to make, Weka.
First you supply arguments that prize Idiots would say, then you start promoting accepting unemployment, that education has been ‘tried before’ and failed [?] and toilet cleaning requires no education.
You really are starting to sound like our dear leaders, wanting everyone dumbed down and cleaning toilets.
Having read previous comments of yours I doubt that this is what you are intending. So what are you meaning?
I am well aware there are important jobs that are absolutely necessary like growing food for instance or – I’ll humour you – cleaning toilets and that these jobs may not require PHD’s or anything like that, however this is not a good reason to pay low wages or to accept decreasing job opportunities or to obstruct education opportunities for these people but this government has done so Please remember that adult education funds were stopped completely. [Unsure if it was completely or severely cut]
Obstructing education for others who may not be capable of physically demanding jobs and leaving them on welfare is a truly unenlightened approach that successive governments have been taking.
As others have mentioned, there is actually more to education than an issue of employment – I guess I did start that line off – however I did ask [somewhat rhetorically] what advantage is there in obstructing people from education – how is it serving anyone or NZ as a whole? By which I meant I see no advantage and conversely many advantages to encouraging education.
[DTB & co below provided a few advantages to leaving people in the dark; namely advantage for those who are at the top of the [shit] heap.]
You have the ability to write and reason and express yourself because someone taught you these things and somewhere along the line someone taught you the value of reasoning. I very much dislike that there are a fair few New Zealanders who are being obstructed and I would go so far as saying they are being discouraged from the opportunity to do just that.
The more people who are educated or trained in skilled work, the more likely that new ideas and new ways of doing things will arise. Limiting education is a fast-track to a limited and blinkered society – which is exactly what we appear to be developing at present.
Well I agree with much of what you write on these issues bl. And no, what you think I am saying is not what I am saying. What I am saying is what results when you put the issues you raise into the context of AGW/PO/GFC. There IS no recovery from those things, we are on a hiding to nothing if we ignore that fact. The things you are arguing for are all good and true, I just don’t believe they are possible now in the timeframes we have left.
To pick up the point of promoting unemployment, I think there are sound radical strategic reasons for doing so, as a response to the very power structures you abhor. Getting everyone a good education and a good job will perpetuate the power structures and increase our AGW and Peak Everything problems.
I do count myself very fortunate to have the critical thinking mind and expression skills I have, but they didn’t come from formal education. I suppose part of this discussion for me is that I don’t rate tertiary education that highly, in its present form. I do agree with you on the absolute necessity of equity of access, but I also believe that we would all be better off with less academia and more community based skills and knowledge learning.
AFAIK adult education (‘night classes’) funding has been cut. Hard to see that as anything other than the rightwing neoliberal power and control agenda. I’m just not looking to the govt for solutions to these things now. We have many, many skilled people in our communities to learn from. Time we developped new models of how to do that. If we get Labour/GP govt next year I would love to see education overhauled. Won’t be holding my breath though.
My point about cleaning toilets is that there are lots of jobs that don’t need formal education (but do need skill and training). I just dislike this whole idea that tertiary education is ‘higher’ than other things. (We should of course pay toilet cleaners really well, given the nature of the job). My mother was a nurse for many years, started in the 1950s. She learnt how to do that by working in a hospital and afaik got paid for it. Now if she were 18 again, she would have to spend 3 years at polytech and come out with a $15,000 debt to pay back before she could get a job as a nurse. There are definitely some advantages to society of the professionalisation of nursing education, but there are losses too.
I, personally, can’t think of any limits to those.
I think people will surprise you and that’s fine anyway – they just get to do the jobs that people who do want to do R&D are no longer doing.
A system where what they do is recorded, what they find out is shared and what they do is formally recognised.
The present system is the problem and it needs to be removed. I’m not someone who is fond of getting an education to meet the requirements of a job. I think people should get and education that matches their interests and then be encouraged/supported into working to those interests.
Two things:
1.) Nursing has changed a bit since the 1950s so it’s better to get them trained before they do the practical stuf
2.) We’re the ones that want nurses so why are they the ones that have to pay for the training?
The last bit I completely agree with. The rest is a bit too abstract for me sorry.
Cheers for the clarification Weka,
I can see what you mean regarding the GFC and you have a point. Hopefully not an insurmountable problem – yet definitely a challenge. Have been suspecting that is why people are accepting the lies of this government – expecting the numbers to be bad and not really being discerning as to whether there has been damage and debt created by this government as it is all being ‘put down to’ the financial crisis and/or earthquake.
I did not assume that it was formal training that lead to your ability to think – just that it is likely that someone has influenced you in that way. I do not know, but suspect reasoned thinking is something we are taught – is not something that we just develop of our own accord. Might be parents, friends, books or teachers (T.V unlikely!).
It is not my experience that University perpetuates power structures, despite there being a commonly held view to the contrary. Being taught to reason and question undermines blind following of our accepted power-structures, although that will depend on the subject – technical subjects not so much! – I am in little doubt that this aspect is why ‘higher’ learning is not being encouraged for all socio-economic groups.
I do also including skills training (polytech-style) in my references to education it may not be quite as focussed on reasoning, that comes into it, however learning new skills always deepens one’s understanding of how one’s society/environment functions in one way or another and broadens one’s horizons.
Bit of another annoyance for me re what you relay about the nursing! I have heard that myself and how there is less on-the-job training and more courses which one pays for (where one used to be paid for such training) – viewed as bit of a scam by my elders – probably quite correctly so!
Yes, pressuring everyone to get a uni education in order to get a good job was a bit of a con nd/or ill thought out.
But education should be available to those who wan it – and not necessarily for any direct relevance to getting a job – education to participate in society and democracy.
Adult education and the Workers Education Association did a great job once – education in the broadest sense.
+1
“Education” is far more than just job training.
We are in a time where we need to be re-emphasising the arts, culture, history and community, as a way of transforming peoples’ lives and giving them a renewed voice.
““Education” is far more than just job training.”
Not anymore in NZ
“We are in a time where we need to be re-emphasising the arts, culture, history and community, as a way of transforming peoples’ lives and giving them a renewed voice.”
Yes, and I’d put civics and how to grow and cook your own food high on the list of things most people should learn.
Practical do it yourself and applied skills for improving home, family and community life are of utmost importance, yes.
@ Weka,
I’m not convinced by the education for everyone as a solution to unemployment argument.
I am not talking of a one solution fits all approach – unclear how you get that from what I write. If any solution offered has to fix all problems for all people, we really will get nowhere – and might I suggest this might be why nothing is improving. No one section of societies’ issues are addressed because someone has decided that a solution has to fix all problems for all and therefore no problems are being addressed!
Karol’s comment picks up what I was saying – ‘for those who want an education’ was the operative clause for the point I was trying to make.
I am not promoting some sort of forced education idea, I am well aware that some people are not into higher learning and others are. There are possibly more who are into some form of training (as opposed to ‘higher learning’) yet have not been in a good set of circumstances to consider it an option. I have the impression that there are more people who would benefit from [some form of] education than who take it up. Those programmes on TV that show people in prisons who have finally made the plunge and are thriving is an example of this.
We hear on a regular basis that ‘we must upskill’, blah blah ‘knowledge economy’ blah blah. What utter rot this talk is. There is no serious attempt to make education available to all who want it I get more help to go into seasonal work than I ever have going into study. Is that what taxpayers want? People who can and will study but cannot agree to the debt therefore get a couple of extra hundred dollars each year to go into seasonal work and when that dries up end up back on welfare? Or is it better that people go into minimum wage jobs and get supplements for their wages, accommodation, additional help with difficult weeks etc?
It is a bit tricky offering ‘what someone else would say’ to the options taxpayers have. Sure there are some that will argue the point to cut welfare completely – but is this really a serious option? Haven’t you noticed the complete dearth of political parties offering this as a choice at election time? Too many landlords and business people advantaged by this welfare system for that to be a winner. Add this to the many people who really do know the advantage to society in having welfare and all parties know such a policy would be a fast-track into the opposition benches.
I am inclined toward DTB’s response re your comments of ‘its been done before’. I don’t really think there has been any real effort at addressing the interests of the people for a long long time – mostly it has been corporate interests wrapped up in huge amounts of spin – which works all too effectively in a society that increasingly appears to denigrate intelligence and learning.
Yes I daresay the GFC is affecting the way people feel about helping people out of poverty-traps. This is sad, however because the GFC wouldn’t have been able to occur had wealth disparity been knocked on the head from the outset. The problem we have in general and the GFC in particular is damaging policies that go against peoples’ interests are being pushed through because some ‘persons’ have huge political clout due to the vast sums of money they have available to them. Read up on how the debt of those banks were allowed to get so large – there used to be rules about how much debt a bank took on. Find out why commercial banks and investment banks protective separation was removed (separated from the high risk investment banks so ordinary people’s money was safer) and the reasons shadow banking came into existence. I think you will discover that people with too much clout from having more money than sense or compassion are behind such phenomena.
Not having the money is just not the issue – how the money is being shared out is the issue.
I’m unclear why anyone would ‘agree to unemployment’ there are plenty of things to be done, so why are so many people doing things for free or not got jobs at all while others are overworked or have money coming out of their ears and are finding ever more complex ways of how to invest their wealth risk-free or have got such large incomes that they spend much time pretending they haven’t got anything in order to avoid paying their large tax-bills?
This comment has got far too long and I haven’t even got onto the Universal wage …
One section is being addressed – the profiteers. All policies for the last thirty years have been to address the falling rate of profit.
I stand corrected one section of society are having their interests addressed.
Jolly marvellous! I feel so much better knowing that. 😐
[do I need to add a /sarc here…..]
Well educated unemployed people with loads of student debt and no jobs to be found. Not helpful. Debt is a major way the financial elite use to demand compliance from countries, cities and individuals, forcing them to work compliantly at the capitalist coal face earning for shareholders and bond holders.
Yes the money must be shared about more evenly, but that won’t solve the fundamental medium term problem: the material and energy resources we have built our global civilisation on are rapidly depleting.
??This comment of yours really surprises me CV
The medium term problems of resources won’t be solved unless those who have captured this system have less clout.
Those who have captured this system have done so through having oodles more wealth than the rest of us and are using the power that wealth brings them for political purposes for their own private gain.
Wealth disparity is a very serious issue
I agree with your remarks: wealth disparity is a very serious issue.
But in a neolib cum neo-feudal reconfiguration, formal education is no answer, just a diversion, and a way of loading up the young with debt.
The end result gives the established and wealthy more clout over the young and indebted.
I agree and I think we are past the point where we can solve this problem politically. In an ideal world we would work towards free and equal access to education of all kinds. However if we focus on resource disparity we lose sight of the fact that resources are finite and dwindling. While I think that destroying the power structures that create and perpetuate inequity is important (and I don’t think this should stop), I do have to wonder if the real solutions to poverty at this point aren’t at the local level. With the education issue, we could spend alot of effort trying to get a left wing govt to reinstate free education and broaden out what the means again. Or, we could support local communities to educate themselves in the context of Peak Everything.
Bl, having said that, I appreciate your dilemma of seasonal work and the need for educational opportunities to find ways out of that trap. Do you see other ways as well as conventional education?
So what we need to do is to get rid of that debt and the way to do that would be to change the banking system so that such debt cannot be built up at all.
Get rid of the hold that the rich have over everyone else and we can start to be a community again.
“But in a neolib cum neo-feudal reconfiguration, formal education is no answer, just a diversion, and a way of loading up the young with debt.”
Just a diversion? How can you say this? Hasn’t your name a number of letters behind it? Was it really merely a diversion for you?
Perhaps you have a particular subject in mind? I have only ever found learning (self taught from decent books or formal) as extremely enhancing to my life and thinking.
I have met SO many people who have degrees and discourage others from doing the same. They do not appear to realise what the learning has done for them – yet it has done rather a lot.
“So what we need to do is to get rid of that debt and the way to do that would be to change the banking system so that such debt cannot be built up at all.
Get rid of the hold that the rich have over everyone else and we can start to be a community again.”
Good luck with that. And in the meantime?
“And in the meantime?”
Go to Uni or polytech or read some good books
😀
“I have met SO many people who have degrees and discourage others from doing the same. They do not appear to realise what the learning has done for them – yet it has done rather a lot.”
Fair point. Myself, I’ve been to polytech twice. The first time was great (and free) and I learnt some pretty decent practical skills that I still use 25 years later. The second time cost me alot on many levels. It was much more academic, and much of that was a waste of my time (it did enhance my thinking skills because it was so bad that I had to develop more critical thinking to cope. So I guess your point stands, although I think most people believe education should be a positive experience). I didn’t graduate from the second course.
I wonder if you hear so many graduates being discouraging because for many tertiary education lacks so much and costs so much (at the undergrad level at least. I gather post-grad can be more rewarding).
“Go to Uni or polytech or read some good books”
Already cram as much into my brain as will fit 😉
Plus, while the bankers run the world and Draco is figuring out how to take them down, I can’t afford tertiary education and so am getting on with other means (which proves your point and mine I guess).
This is a democracy so perhaps we should vote the fuckers out.
Put simply, vote for a political party that will remove their hold over us. This means not voting for political parties will keep things the same.
Keep learning, keep teaching others how they’re being ripped off by the banks and the capitalists.
“This is a democracy so perhaps we should vote the fuckers out.”
By that argument, we can carry on with neoliberal governments like we have for the past 30 years. Voting holds the line, but I doubt it will effect the real change needed. Plus we don’t have time to shift NZ far enough left to effect that change even were it possible. We need additional strategies.
BL. I stand by my comments. You’re thinking of a kind of education which barely exists any more, not the kind of education today which merely teaches people how to serve the system, instead of critiquing and changing it.
As for having a particular subject in mind: I’ll answer with a question. At your local university which faculty has been the most progressive and effective in fighting against the neoliberal agenda? Choose that subject – if it exists.
“..At your local university which faculty has been the most progressive and effective in fighting against the neoliberal agenda?..?
um..!..none..?
phillip ure..
Weka I agree completely: Parliamentary politics can help hold the line and perhaps make a couple of incremental improvements (maybe). Its extra-parliamentary activity mostly focused at a local level which can make a big difference.
Therefore I would ask you to consider using a far wider definition of “politics”. In a pervasive corporate consumer culture, the mere act of making a gift instead of buying it, of going to Church or your favored place of contemplation instead of the Westfield shopping slum, these are in of themselves value statements with an undoubted political dimension. 95% of the real politics happening in this country has nothing to do with MPs.
Philip Ure: exactly. So this is where I feel BLs idea of gaining another qualification or studying another subject, formally at least, will come to nothing.
No 4 year NZ university degree can even touch what you can learn on The Standard in 6 months.
Nice to be on the same page CV 🙂 That’s pretty much my definition of politics too.
One of the things I’d like to see on ts is a broadening out from central govt and party politics to discussion of how to be effective at the local level as well (and I don’t mean Local Govt). We have a wealth of resource here in authors and commenters, perhaps that can be applied. Although I guess next year will be dominated by the election.
@ CV I question your framing of what I’ve been writing about re education – Are you referring to my “Go to Uni, read a book” comment? I thought Weka’s comment about “what should we do in the meantime” was rather funny and the response was an attempt at humour (hence the smiley face) Think it might have fallen flat.
Any course of study that teaches research methods – statistics and/or reasoned thought and justifying one’s reasoning, and creating a confidence in a students’ own line of reasoning helps against the neo-liberal agenda because quickly one can see that there is a lot of false logic, assumptions – unjustified memes – lack of research that is being pressed upon us through our media sources and in our communities – media studies teaches one to be ‘objective’ as does any subject that teaches the tools of the trade – because once you learn them you see through the tricks that such trades use in order to be effective.
Framing the question as seeking out “a faculty that has been the most progressive and effective in fighting against the neoliberal agenda?” is therefore a question designed to make the reader conclude “there are none” : i.e. there may be no one department that has taken on an activist approach toward the shite we are being fed – however there are many faculties that are teaching critical thinking skills that will lead to the same place.
The strength neo-liberalism has is it’s ability to con – the ability to send out false information and false logic on matters of our society – if one is learning established information – historical context, how to apply statistics correctly, media study – even marketing – one starts easily being able to see through the bullshit we are being fed. I would guess that the worst subject would be economics, they may still teach certain techniques such as supply and demand that have been thoroughly undermined in a manner that they no longer function as expected – however I view that there are many subjects that teach the skills one requires to be immune to being conned.
I would take it that those with power in the world at present would far rather that people did not learn the skills that University or any form of learning provide because an educated public would not be as easily fooled, easily manipulated and compliant as our polls suggest we are.
I think you really take for granted what an education has given you and your message appears to be that it is and was a waste of time. Is this what you are meaning to convey??
http://www.stuff.co.nz/marlborough-express/news/5340847/NZ-long-walk-to-raise-awareness-of-glaucoma
What one Grey Power president did in 2011.
It seems that the government of the day listened and did nothing.
2014 is election year and this should be an election issue.
Thanks for the reminder, Phillip Ure.
@ mac..chrs..
..this one really pisses me off..so i’ll be bringing it up regularly over the next yr..
..to me it couldn’t be a clearer example of how this govt just doesn’t fucken care..
..60 yrs old..?..got glaucoma..?..need a simple operation to save yr sight..?
..got no money to pay for private..?
..then get fucked..!..go blind..!
(and on a cynical/political note..lab/grns would harvest grey-votes by promising to fix this..and other arbitrary cut-off dates for help..)
..and how could that not be a better example of new zealand life in 2013..after 30 yrs of randite/neo-lib policies..
..the ‘labour’ party wants to increase the pension age to 67..to make workers work to the age of 67..
..and yet if any of those workers develop glaucoma @ age 60…the govt says ‘tough shit!’..
..this is the current state of our shredded social contract..
..and do labour already have policies to fix this..?
…if not..why not..?
..not at all tardy in rushing out that pension age or gst raise promise/threat..eh..?
..can i just say slowly..?..that it would seem/going on actions/words to date..that..
..they..haven’t..got..a..fucken..clue..
..that new year policy-announcement had better be good..
..eh..?
..phillip ure..
Crap. So now I’m over 60, but I also have been told I need to get regular checks for glaucoma because my mother had it – strong chance I’ll get it, but it needs to be caught early.
Has to be brain dead doesn’t it. Anybone with poor eye sight will require a lot eatra in supporting services which cost money…
Agreed, Redbaron. And I checked online: the people most likely to get glaucoma are the people over 60 years – and treating it early gets the best results.
And South East Asian people are one of the ethnic groups most likely to get it, plus 3 times more women get it than men
– who made the decision to stop funding glaucoma treatment to the over 60s again?
I wonder who decided. & looking at my typing do I need an eyesight test?
It serves the rich and powerful because people who aren’t well educated don’t know enough to take apart the lies that they’re being told. Basically, it helps the few to become richer at everyone else’s expense.
+1 DTB
Which is one of the major reasons I am railing against the as-least-as-possible-knowledge (or unknowledge) economy that we appear to be developing.
My comment above appears to have been deviated into framing it into an argument re jobs, yet this is o.k because jobs for all would be one of the many benefits created by a society that stopped believing the utter shite we are being fed.
It also means that the children of the poor cannot compete with their overprivileged brats for the good jobs.
Also the reason for cheap, 3 R’s basic job education for the poor and a real education for the rich.
The real reason why they want to fuck up State education.
Another way of entrenching privilege.
George Carlin
“But I’ll tell you what they don’t want. They don’t want a population of citizens capable of critical thinking. They don’t want well-informed, well-educated people capable of critical thinking. They’re not interested in that. That doesn’t help them. That’s against their interests. They don’t want people who are smart enough to sit around the kitchen table and figure out how badly they’re getting ****** by a system that threw them overboard 30 fucking years ago.
“You know what they want? Obedient workers people who are just smart enough to run the machines and do the paperwork but just dumb enough to passively accept all these increasingly shittier jobs with the lower pay, the longer hours, reduced benefits, the end of overtime and the vanishing pension that disappears the minute you go to collect it.”
A prophet of our times.
yes, ‘they’ appear to be doing a marvellous job of it in New Zealand….
“a 2007 report by PricewaterhouseCoopers for the Adult Community Education organization. It concluded the estimated national economic gain of this type of adult education is in the range of $4.8 billion to $6.3 billion. Not bad for a government investment of just $16 million per year.”
Johnathan Coleman waxing lyrical in 2007
http://www.jonathancoleman.co.nz/index.php?/archives/146-Speech-Adult-Learners-Week-Celebration-Dinner.html
By waxing lyrical I mean lying to the electorate
Wow. interesting that the stats are out there.
Great link Tracey,
…and he went on to vote the removal of the funds for these adult learners…
#@!@#$#@@!&?!##
Where are these peoples’ heads at??
Firstly, they’re not interested in nation building or strengthening the social or economic fabric of the country.
Ironic when Clark govt were looking at closing down small rural night classes because of poor attendence Blinglish ripped into the govt saying if you close these night classe down you will damage the social cohesion of these communities .
Blinglish’s hypocracy soon as he gets his hands on the till he cut all night school funding.
Just another double dipping double dealing dipstick.
Got a link for that?
Right wing trolls like you never feel the need to support outlandish opinions with either reason or supporting evidence. Do you suddenly believe in the need for it?
Might this do Piss73 ?
http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/5918071/User-pays-night-schools-see-student-numbers-plummet
Or this Piss73 ?
http://www.nzfgw.org.nz/Documents/ACEfundingreportFinal.pdf
Got a link to refute any part of what Tricledown@5 had to say above Piss73 or are you just being dishonest again ?
You ain’t ? Well never mind…….maybe Blinglish can give us one.
Oh hang on……….from the Stuff article above………”Mr English did not return requests for comment last week.”
There are only a few days of this year left in which to stop being your usual dumbfuck self Piss73.
You still haven’t explained what you meant by this North:
“You’re a nutter Piss73. Give the missus a serious seeing to when she got home late with the Maccers dinner and no dipping sauce didya ?”
Will you ever explain it or are you just a coward?
If you cannot figure that out Chris73 you need to go back to school, i suggest you start at kindergarten…
In that case I’d like to know why he thinks I would give my wife a hiding (assuming thats what hes referring to) and why he thinks accusing someone of violence towards women is ok simply because he disagrees with my views
Piss73………good of you to say “(assuming thats what hes referring to)” – [apostrophes please].
Some Very-Un-Crosby-Textor like acknowledgment there Piss73. Still 5 days left to complete the reformation.
But please Piss73, back to the matter of the “link”. Coward ?
How about acknowledging that Bill English is indeed the political point scoring fixated double-dealer that Tricledrown was describing.
Funny how this ‘just opposing for political point scoring’ is what National in parliament regularly accuse every other party of doing. Hypocrites.
I responded tricledrown below
Your comment to Tricledrown hasn’t acknowledged the sad fact of the matter, re English’s nature, however you did have a decent response, which I didn’t see, sorry – cheers for pointing it out.
No worries
There are certainly some tacks in the boots you borrowed to walk 20 miles to vote Tory what, Piss73 ?
Get over the vacuity defining your skull cavity insufferable cargo-cult snob you.
Zooming round in the Vitara you acknowledge you’re stuck with while asprayshuns to the Land Cruiser or whatever you wanked on about remain unrealised on Planet Key.
While the missus trudges home on foot with the Maccers sans dipping sauce, quelle horreur.
Let it go KeyStoned Kupapa.
Its a very simple question:
Do you think accusing someone of bashing their wife is acceptable
Yes or No
You are now hardout charging that that’s what I said Piss73 ? So you’ve gone back on “(assuming thats what hes referring to)”. Please Piss73…….make up your mind. Pick your line of bullshit and stick with it for much longer before you tack off. The duration of one thread is way too quick.
Very Un-Crosby-Textor of you Piss73.
Being that you won’t answer my original question as to what you meant when you posted this:
“You’re a nutter Piss73. Give the missus a serious seeing to when she got home late with the Maccers dinner and no dipping sauce didya ?”
I can only assume you were saying I commit violence on my wife
But what really happened is you posted something you didn’t mean to (maybe got a bit over-excited) and instead of owning up to it you just dance around the subject instead of coming out and saying it was a thoughtless and dumb comment
But by all means continue your attempts at obfuscation
Hmm.
You keep insisting that he answer your “original question” but apparently his question came before yours.
Perhaps you should answer first, just so it doesn’t look like you’re being hypocritical.
Also, your interpretation is entirely your own. I’ve never heard anyone use “seeing to” as a description of violence.
Seriously? Well ok then (just so I’m mot accused of being a hypocrite)
“You’re a nutter Piss73. Give the missus a serious seeing to when she got home late with the Maccers dinner and no dipping sauce didya ?”
– No I did not
Also, your interpretation is entirely your own. I’ve never heard anyone use “seeing to” as a description of violence.
– It doesn’t really make sense then does it: come home late (bad) and without sauce (bad) is more likely a set up towards domestic violence
Only in your mind are those things a logical precursor to violence. No-one else seems to be making the connection.
(except you, pretty much daily).
When I first saw the comment I thought it implied Chris was capable of violence. I still do. Given his occasional macho posturing and what I recall is an expressed liking of guns and the military, that’s not to big a leap to make, but it didn’t need to expressed like that.
The way I read the comment was that the ‘no dipping sauce’ would be an excuse for anger, followed by a ‘seeing to’. It didn’t occur to me then that the violence might be sexual, but it does now.
To Te Reo Putake:
Thats fine to think that based on comments I’ve made as long as you realise I’ve never and would never abuse my wife
After seeing what my mom went through its something I would never do and as such I may be a bit touchy around the subject
“Thats fine to think that based on comments I’ve made as long as you realise I’ve never and would never abuse my wife”
Why should anyone realise that? “You” are nothing but a pseudonym on a blog. You can say you’ve never driven drunk or kicked a dog or injected meth into your penis if you like, but none of those statements are testable so none of them count.
Same goes for being married, being in the military, or any of the other stories you tell. None of it is testable so none of it counts for anything.
Keep protesting “your” innocence all you like but it does seem like protesting a bit much for someone who doesn’t really exist in any meaningful way.
Chris73
I acknowledge that you have successfully diverted the conversation after having been proven completely wrong, however this conversation is really getting bizarre.
Perhaps you could have provided a link to the comment that you are quoting of North and then perhaps North might have had the good grace to explain it?
I have to agree with TRP and Tracey (below) what you quoted sounded like an accusation of violence, and I think it is perfectly sane to not to want to be accused of wife bashing and really that wish requires no further explanation about background etc. It should be honoured.
Felix, what are you trying to prove here? That you are prepared to argue a point no matter how ridiculous it is?
Nope, I’m trying to prove exactly what I wrote: That no-one gets to make unverifiable claims online about their real lives from under the cloak of pseudonymity and have them taken seriously.
I don’t think accusing someone of bashing their wife is acceptable.
I don’t think someone bashing their wife is acceptable.
I don’t think neoliberal economics are acceptable.
I don’t think a Labour party that still only goes as far as promising a few crumbs while people like Goff, Parker, and Mallard are cheerleaders for neoliberalism and Rogernomics is acceptable.
Chris73, I think you spout a load of rubbish and have no idea why you bother, but I have no reason to suspect that you bash your wife.
Merry Christmas.
Murray, thank you so much for expressing what I have been thinking about this very sorry ongoing saga. I have felt really sad about this saga, but did not want to get involved.
Give it away people, you and we – and the TS – do not need it. Chris may have different views to most of us here, but let us not descent to the Sewer’s standards for interaction.
+1
+1
Interesting – good to have reminders like that one Tricledrown
It just seems like politicians have lost the plot and no longer consider the interests of New Zealanders as their main focus, rather pathetic point scoring seems to be what they believe their role in society is.
What a complete waste of money it is paying such misguided airheads.
I used to reserve some respect for politicians, acknowledging how hard it is to please everyone – however I am fast losing this attitude. Let’s face it, it is not rocket science to address the main needs of society; they are simply refusing to do it.
Yes Blue Leopard you’re right – look at the current nutting on about the “stronger economy”. Designed to conceal that ShonKey Python is a repatriated robber baron whose “business” is to deliver NZ to the mostly foreign sometimes domestic super rich.
Begs the question “Whose fucking economy ?”.
Oh don’t worry, no answer needed. Especially when eagerly assisted by dumbfuck cargo-cultist soldiers/trolls the likes of Piss73.
To whom honest acknowledgment is as quaintly silly a concept as it is to the government funded lie machine Crosby Textor.
That is a question all parties on the left need to keep asking and then finish with the point that it’s our economy and not that of the rich or the politicians.
Yes DTB & North
That is a good question. I shall be repeating that question from time to time (read ad infinitum) me thinks.
New Years Resolution for 2014: Wake up to the Methane Bomb
“From 2007 (location d on Figure 13) the mean atmospheric methane exceeded 1785 – 1795 ppb and increased at a much faster rate than the atmospheric carbon dioxide. This confirms that in 2007, the subsea Arctic Ocean methane clathrate gun began to fire a continuous volley of methane into the Arctic atmosphere (Figure 13, position d) and that we are now power diving into extinction by the Mid 21st Century unless we take immediate and drastic action to remove large volumes of methane from the atmosphere.”
https://sites.google.com/site/runawayglobalwarming/the-non-disclosed-extreme-arctic-methane-threat
C73 I listened to parliament the day he made his plea.
Cult 73
The Cult of greed who think theyare more deserving than those in need.
Fair enough, he should be asked if he stands by those comments in the house
Can i come out of hiding now, is that christmas thing over, if i hear a supposedly mature adult paid 100’s of 1000’s of dollars to read the news tell me that ‘there is only one more sleep to Santa’ again i swear i will not be responsible for my actions…
Ti’s OK, bad, the MSM is back to business as usual – lots of reports about bashings, crime and violence. I guess the good will season is already done!
Oh, but good news is, lots of Boxing Day sales. And foodbanks and City Mission work will disappear from the news – t’is only attended to seasonally so the comfortable folks can feel charitable at Christmas.
Don’t forget Jesse Ryders (hopefully) triumphant return to the international cricket stage
So thats not working out too well at the moment…
If scoring 20’s and 30’s were key to winning international cricket matches then Ryder would be first pick in my batting line-up.
i see it all as a puke-stain on the history of humanity, having bought into a couple of gross fantasies perpetrated by the system all these men, and sometimes woman, then begin to exhibit guilt traits masked by acts of wanton violence usually spurred by that other ‘must have’ at this time of year, alcohol,
Perhaps there is need for a denialist movement where people who want to turn away from such a consumerist atrocity can gather together to teach each other to simply ignore the day,
Bishop Bad’s Denialist Church of the one and only original sin coming to a town near you…
lot of stuff coming out of area 52 today.
The rich – “Look, all those people, getting all that free food and being entertained, at places like the City Mission. Wonderful. They are sooo lucky. And here we are at home, the butler and the keep slaving away for hours just to feed us dears for lunch. Oh, where’s the bolly, luv, I need a top up.”
Yes, overnight the plight of the poor will disappear from the face of society as the media focuses on the “Boxing Day” sales, as if this is a great benefit to the nation. Most of that will go on the credit card, only exacerbating the country’s debt.
Wouldn’t it be nice if Councils around the country organised community events that brought people together, in a sharing/caring environment.
Its been a great year financially for the top 20% of households. Can we not be pleased for the middle and upper class of the nation who deserve our thanks and admiration?
just listening to j colins on radio. despite coming fron a party that says you cant define poverty she says her grandmother raised 7 children alibe in rural nz in the 20s ” i poverty” so one minister can defibe poverty.
collibs mother was denied secondary school to help on the farm and ensured her own children got education. i note collins law degree was free with no loan…
interestibg how nat mps use the hardship poverty card to nake it seem like they ubderstand while kicking ladders away right left and ctre.
that collins has turned into an uncaring rightwinger..
..who doesn’t give a flying fuck about those one in four new zealand children currently living in the miseries of poverty..
..says what about her..?
..phillip ure..
..
chris
i took “seeing to” to mean sex. either way the comment was imo appalling and has no place.
Either way I’d just like to know why he said it, people can say what they like about me and thats fine but to drag my wife into it and accuse me beating her (which is how I took it) is way below the belt
You’re the only person here who has written about beating your wife.
And you do it with monotonous regularity.
Collins mother would have not been able to give her a good education.
Without labour govt reforms.
selective amnesia is a common trait of those wholean to the right
Has no place Tracey ? Agreed.
What has no place ? A comment on which you stamp your meaning and then launch it as mine ? The meaning is yours. I agree. No place.
This is the hoary old chestnut Piss73 trots out every time he’s in a tight spot. For the most recent instance have a look at 5 to 5.1.1.1 above. Sneeringly demands a link , gets it, uh oh, hoary old chestnut time again.
Piss73 – what was it Harry Truman said about kitchens and heat ?
“The Happiest Christmas of All” from His Master’s Voice
…and they will call him Immanuel (meaning ‘God with us’) Matthew 1:23.
Maybe… we shall live again
All the best for the coming year, John.
ps, catch 22. 😀
whatever north
if someone cant dialogue with someone they disagree with without resorting to nasty fiction they have to accept how that makes them look. playing the person not the ball achieves nothing but perpetuates the bs. violence toward women is real and serious and not to be belittled by childlike outbursts on a forum.
Whatever Tracey. Indulge yourself with more of YOUR meaning if it makes you feel good. I never owned YOUR meaning. Do I speak loudly enough for those ears of yours way up there on that high horse ?
North, your a fucking moron. Simple as that. You abuse everyone. Trying to mash how simple minded and uneducated you really are
Mash ??? Chur !!!
Let us (including the hair triggered Tracey) not forget that you Confused, Piss73, Tighty Righty, BM, SS-Lands et al have made a bloody career on TS out of demonising and scandalising. Aggressively prosyletising for hatred against the poor for their insistence (by their mere existence) on sabotaging ShonKey Python’s Brighter Future (ahem).
Variously lazy, fat, live-off -takeaways, irresponsible, plenty of jobs if you want them, stop the underclass breeding, etc etc etc ad absurdum. Scum the lot of them.
This quote from the old boy on Dads Army is so apposite re you and your mates Confused – “………they do not like it up ’em!”
Tough for you, hypocritical wee soldiers of the Prime Mournister. Grow up and learn to take some of your own medicine without clutching your pearls in the mortified style of Dame Edna Everidge.
I’m prepared to punt Confused……..don’t flirt with “simple minded” and “uneducated”. Those particular horses might kick you back very hard.
Been on the White mans fire water again, north?
Do yourself a favor, bro and stick to the milk don’t want you going all Jake the Muss like and getting yourself in trouble.
Amen – Ahem – Our betters the weirdos are out tonight – Love it.
You should probably pass around your gear so we can both get on the same high so I can understand you.
While the newspapers and other media outlets bang on about and how your successful christmas depends on you consuming massive amounts of food and buying loads of shit for people I like to take a moment every year and play Tim Minchin’s White Wine in the Sun
It’s always how this atheist has felt (since I was 15 and old enough to drink with my parents), and have never been able to articulate properly, until Tim came along and said it more perfectly than I ever could.
brilliant song, thanks.
@ naturesong..
..that minchin song is very cool..
..i posted it @ whoar some days back..
but doesn’t ‘amazing grace’ do it for you too..there..naturesong..?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iT88jBAoVIM
phillip ure..
Global Warming/ climate change ,BUGGER.
Stuck in the ice, it must have been warmer 100 year ago
”The 30-year-old vessel is part of the Australasian Antarctic Expedition, a voyage organised by a group of scientists to mark the 100-year anniversary of a similar trip by Australian explorer Sir Douglas Mawson.
“After all day yesterday pushing through dense pack ice we came to a point where we could go no further, the ice sheet was unbroken and several metres thick. Today has been frustrating, by this afternoon we were only a few kilometres west of where we had been 24 hours previously.”
Help is on the way.
This lot must believe their own Bull.
Ah yes, by all means ignore the bigger picture. Climate change means that the make-up and positioning of the Antarctic ice sheets are different from the way they were 100 years ago.
Climate denialists – clinging on to one iceberg as the world around them disintegrates.
Have you read the Science on this or is one story about a boat getting trapped in ice your evidence for climate change not occurring?
Saw this excellent article which could be linked to to great post Karol made the other day on ‘Not the Brighter Future.’
“Brainwashed by the cult of the super-rich.”
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/dec/25/brainwashed-cult-super-rich
Some key quotes from this article for us in New Zealand.
“What we’ve been realising for some time now is that, for all the team sport rhetoric, only two sides are really at play in Britain and beyond: Team Super-Rich and Team Everyone Else.”
“The rich are not merely different: they’ve become a cult which drafts us as members. We are invited to deceive ourselves into believing we are playing for the same stakes while worshipping the same ideals, a process labelled “aspiration”. ”
” The adulation of royalty is not a harmless anachronism; it is calculated totem worship that only entrenches the bizarre notion that some people are rich simply because they are more deserving but somehow they are still just like us.”
“Cults rely on spectacles of opulence intended to stoke an obsessive veneration for riches.”
“Cue the predictable charge of “class envy” or what Boris Johnson dismisses as “bashing or moaning or preaching or bitching”. Issued by its high priests, this brand of condemnation is integral to the cult of the rich. We must repeat the mantra that the greed of a few means prosperity for all. ”
“Cultish thinking means that the stupendously rich who throw small slivers of their fortunes at charity… … become instant saints.”
“The cult of the rich propounds the idea that vast economic inequalities are both natural and just: the winner who takes most is, like any cult hero, just more intelligent and deserving, even when inherited affluence gives them a head start.”
“The demonising of the poor is the flip side of the cult of the rich.”
” It is time to change it through reality checks, not reality shows.”
As commentators on the article pointed out it is a complex problem. But a rally cry is needed and this is it. One solution to inequality is to make capital’s return worth less and labour’s return worth more. A person’s very existence can be valued in providing a universal basic income. Society is wealthy enough to do this. The evidence is the excessive consumption and wealth. Wealth needs to be redistributed more evenly.
Thanks paul
I continue to be amazed at how the constant dangling of the carrot of more money is enough for people to vote against their own best interests. In some case for decades.
Thanks paul
I continue to be amazed at how the constant dangling of the carrot of more money is enough for people to vote against their own best interests. In some case for decades.