Open Mike 27/10/2018

111 comments on “Open Mike 27/10/2018 ”

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1. Jenny 1

   27 October 2018 at 6:26 am

   A Travesty of Justice

   Closed courts. Secret trials. Secret evidence. Anonymous complainants. Hearings in absentia. Secret underground court room.

   How could anyone one amount a proper defence against this?

   Shameful

   Saudi Arabia?

   One of their Western allies??

   New Zealand?!?

   Really?

   How can this be right?

   How does this gel with this country being a liberal democracy?

   It doesn’t

   All the accused knows is the penalty.

   They don’t know who accused them. 

   They don’t know the evidence against them.

   Shouldn’t the accused at least know the charges against them?

   Shouldn’t the person or agency behind the charges be known to the accused?

   Shouldn’t the accused at least have the right to be at the hearing, instead of being tried in absentia?

   Much of the argument seems to have centred on how much the woman can know of the allegations made against her…….

   ,,,,,,,She has been excluded from most of the process. Instead a “special advocate”, lawyer Ben Keith, was appointed to look at the security information and put forward arguments that might help the woman’s case…….

   ……Instead the Crown was to give her a summary of the security information, that the judge said should “to the greatest extent possible” convey the gist of the case against her so she could prepare a rebuttal.

   Two hearings took place about her case at the High Court in Wellington on Friday. The first was “closed” court in a below-ground courtroom with the woman excluded, but then a second session took place in another courtroom with her via a phone conference.

   Another closed court hearing is planned for next week……

   Stuff.co.nz, October 26, 2018

   https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/108130885/the-secrets-even-the-woman-theyre-about-cant-know
   • Dennis Frank 1.1

     27 October 2018 at 9:04 am

     A fascinating case, eh? You’re right to express your concerns about it, and I feel similarly. For a citizen to have their passport cancelled on security grounds to “impede her ability to facilitate actions of the type that made her a danger to the security of a country other than New Zealand” suggests the authorities see her as an actual or potential terrorist.

     Regardless of that, she has the right to know why. Freedom of information law presumably applies – it’s a puzzle that the judiciary is struggling with it.
   • Jenny 1.2

     27 October 2018 at 9:23 am

     An earlier court decision referred to her passport being cancelled on the grounds that it would impede her ability to facilitate actions of the type that made her a danger to the security of a country other than New Zealand.

     https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/108130885/the-secrets-even-the-woman-theyre-about-cant-know

     It’s astounding

     Which “other” unnamed country is it, that has taken this woman to court?

     Is it Israel? Is it Saudi Arabia? Is it Australia? Is it Trump’s America? Is it Indonesia? Is it China?

     There are some profound implications whichever country it is, depending on what their motivation is.

     Has this country been guilty of human rights violations?

     What is it that this person could allegedly do to hurt the “security” of this country?

     If this woman is threatening or plotting violence against the security of this other country, why she not being charged with offences under the New Zealand Counter Terrorism Act?

     Is this woman’s alleged ability to harm this country, reputational harm?

     If she is not a terrorist;

     Is she a journalist?

     Is she a political activist?

     Is she a whistle blower?

     How can a foreign country take a New Zealander to court?

     The implications for the case of the country of Israel seeking to obtain damages from two New Zealanders is profound.

     If the US sinks into totalitarianism, (as some are saying is a very real possibility), will we see further such cases taken against New Zealanders by other countries through our security services?

     https://thespinoff.co.nz/music/01-02-2018/no-really-new-zealanders-are-being-sued-for-asking-lorde-to-boycott-israel/
     • Dukeofurl 1.2.1

       27 October 2018 at 9:56 am

       Its Australia. She was living in Melbourne. The Aussies have been cancelling passports of their citizens ‘suspected of involvement in the Syrian civil war and ISIS
       https://www.straitstimes.com/asia/australianz/australia-strips-five-of-citizenship-over-isis-links

       and we have done this before
       https://thespinoff.co.nz/politics/24-03-2018/this-isnt-the-first-time-new-zealand-has-denied-a-citizen-their-passport/

       Australia also has been making those who were born overseas prove their citizenship even when reapplying for a passport. This can even affect older people born in UK, but Im sure its aimed at other ethnicities
       https://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-07-31/australian-passport-holders-must-prove-citizenship-to-renew/10051488
       • alwyn 1.2.1.1

         27 October 2018 at 10:31 am

         There was a farmer in Hawkes Bay, Bill Youren, who was refused a passport to visit China in the 1950s. He argued that, although the New Zealand Government had the right to decide which foreigners were allowed to enter New Zealand they had no right to say, in the absence of a war, where New Zealand citizens were allowed to travel.
         He did get his passport in the end and visited China several times.

         Later on, in the time of the Kirk Government he made the same argument from what many would think was the other side of the fence. He argued, from the same viewpoint, that the New Zealand had no right at all to try and prevent a New Zealand Rugby team visiting South Africa, He didn’t win that one.

         Although I have described him as a farmer, which he was for most of his life, he was well versed in the Law. He had, among other things, a LLM with First Class honours and had practised for a short time as a lawyer.
         • Dukeofurl 1.2.1.1.1

           27 October 2018 at 1:28 pm

           I dont think Kirk could stop the ABs touring South Africa but he did stop the Springboks coming here
           https://nzhistory.govt.nz/page/labour-government-postpones-springbok-tour

           NZ toured RSA in 1970 and again in 1976 ( after labour was defeated and national made much hay of the cancelled Springbok tour here)

           Alwrong again.
           • alwyn 1.2.1.1.1.1

             27 October 2018 at 2:29 pm

             Sorry. Wrong PM.
             Yes it was the 1976 tour and the protests about the New Zealand team touring. The protests went on though.
2. cleangreen 2

   27 October 2018 at 8:21 am

   Great in-depth article placed by Selwyn Manning today on TDB is worth a look as it raises concerns I bring up here to.

   https://thedailyblog.co.nz/2018/10/27/special-investigation-jami-lee-ross-national-affairs-and-the-public-interest/

   Great article Selwyn and thanks for keeping the ‘blowtorch’ on Bridges and co.

   We all worry if the national sleaze have gotten control of all of Jami Lee Ross evidence and recordings already????

   Could Jami’s ‘lover’ actually stolen or copied them?

   We hope the police seized all Jami Lee Ross’s evidence and files on hard drives along with stored phone texts and voice recordings as the communications industry and the five eyes network also store these files as we all know that storing of all our communications is now stolen and confirmed by several ‘leakers’, Assange, Snowden, kim.com, and Nikki Hagar to name a few.

   Quote from Selwyn Manning article; “Because the inquiry reports back to Bridges, who as leader may well be one of the protagonists. Also, the report will not be released to the public which leaves it as a golden prize, the holy grail, for any journalist and, irrespective of who it damns or exonerates, will become a currency for any MP with leadership ambitions.

   As it now stands, Bridges’ worst nightmare must be not knowing what Jami-Lee Ross recorded and at what point did he begin taping the National Party leader’s conversations.

   If those recordings contain further embarrassing or damaging content and references, then he will be finished as leader. Bridges, as leader, even if he has a clear conscience, must be wracking his memory as to past conversations and comments while knowing the conversations may be in the hands of people with whom he has lost their trust.

   And the question remains unanswered: Was Paula Bennett recorded as well?”

   [Fixed the link for ya – MS]
   • Dennis Frank 2.1

     27 October 2018 at 9:13 am

     What’s important here is that Selwyn is acting in the public interest: “A sworn-to timeline of events is now essential so that the public interest can be satisfied.”

     Those seeking to enforce the mushroom strategy via privacy law will shit themselves. He provides some moral guidance to the Nats: “The inquiry must examine the National leadership team’s actions and culture, test whether they acted in a proper and timely manner, and assess whether their actions considered a concern for the welfare and mental health of an MP they had previously supported, promoted, and embedded within their leadership team.”

     Of course, none of this will happen. Denial will prevail. The toxic National culture will remain, will very likely take down their current leader, and his replacement eventually as well. National must hit rock bottom before members start to acknowledge that becoming positive role models is better politics.
     • veutoviper 2.1.1

       27 October 2018 at 9:58 am

       “Those seeking to enforce the mushroom strategy via privacy law will shit themselves.”

       No, Dennis – presuming you are talking about those of us here arguing that no-one has any right to knowledge about Ross’ medical conditions, diagnosis and related matters UNLESS Ross chooses to make this information public – we will not be “shitting ourselves”.

       Selwyn understands the very big difference between publicly discussing, and expressing opinions on, the surrounding wider circumstances and timelines etc of the present National Party fiasco from a political perspective – and the much more specific and personal details of an individual person’s medical condition and information and the privacy and civil right law and rules relating to that – regardless of the fact that the person is a parliamentarian at the centre of that fiasco.

       You have not understood that very real distinction throughout the discussions here and on other blogs, eg Public Address.

       Selwyn does – and has steered well clear of that aspect.

       His article is one of the best I have seen to date and I recommend everyone read it.

       As well as on TDB, it can also be read here

       https://thedailyblog.co.nz/2018/10/27/special-investigation-jami-lee-ross-national-affairs-and-the-public-interest/

       https://eveningreport.nz/2018/10/25/evening-report-analysis-national-affairs-and-the-public-interest/

       Also – Whaleoil has a further post up this morning countering in detail some of the timeline and events reported in Fisher’s Herald article yesterday. I will not link but it is an interesting read.
3. JohnSelway 3

   27 October 2018 at 8:34 am

   Here’s an interesting Saturday morning read for those inclined….

   https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2018/10/29/why-are-americans-still-uncomfortable-with-atheism
   • Dennis Frank 3.1

     27 October 2018 at 9:59 am

     Thanks, that’s an excellent work of philosophical analysis and literary criticism from a woman of discernment, with many penetrating insights. I rate her essay 10/10, and rare nowadays to be so impressed by intellectual artistry. Here’s the section I thought most timely:

     “Today, the voguish version of science as religion is transhumanism, which claims that technology will overcome human limitations both physical and mental, perhaps through bioengineering or artificial intelligence or cyborgs that can carry around the contents of our brains. Gray is not sanguine about such developments, should they ever occur, because we already have a model of the mayhem that takes place when some mortals are granted godlike powers: “Anyone who wants a glimpse of what a post-human future might be like should read Homer.””
4. Treetop 4

   27 October 2018 at 8:58 am

   Who are the most trusted journalists and reporters in NZ?

   Who are the most biased journalists and reporters in NZ?
   • James 4.1

     27 October 2018 at 9:33 am

     That would be the ones who seem to support or not your views.

     It’s subjective
   • Treetop 4.2

     27 October 2018 at 9:41 am

     Moderator can you correct the first word in my second question to Who.

     Not sure how it got changed.

     [Done – MS]
   • SaveNZ 4.3

     27 October 2018 at 10:42 am

     Trusted – Nicky Hager, Rod Oram for financial news, John Campbell, Gordon Campbell
     Not Trusted – where do you start – about 65% of journalists in NZ – Fran O’Sulivan is just a paid for hack, who fell to dirty politics, Patrick Gower who thinks the news is about himself, Hoskings is obviously rock bottom… so many bad ones…
     • Stuart Munro 4.3.1

       27 October 2018 at 11:08 am

       Fran is a curious case – writes a lot of stuff that’s no better than the likes of John Armstrong. But she is a serious journalist, capable of some intellectual rigour, and every now and then she shows it big time.
       • SaveNZ 4.3.1.1

         27 October 2018 at 11:11 am

         Maybe she should stop taking all those paid for trips and goodies from business… you might be capable of serious journalism But if you have no sense of personal compromise, and are for Sale, or able to be manipulated. None have any place in serious journalism.
         • Stuart Munro 4.3.1.1.1

           27 October 2018 at 11:29 am

           That is, I think, a failure of the community of which she is part, as much as hers. She does stir them up from time to time, but can’t do all the heavy lifting. NZ’s commercial class are big frogs in a small pond – not good for much more than croaking.
       • Morrissey 4.3.1.2

         27 October 2018 at 6:08 pm

         O’Sullivan certainly can be an intelligent and thoughtful commentator. But she dumbs it down severely whenever she appears on NewstalkZzzzzB….

         https://morrisseybreen.blogspot.com/2018/01/ummmm-ahhhh-you-know-eloquence-of-fran.html

         https://morrisseybreen.blogspot.com/2018/01/the-eloquence-of-fran-osullivan-13412.html
     • adam 4.3.2

       27 October 2018 at 11:15 am

       Think your wrong about Fran, she is ideologically different from you and I. But she is honest about it.
       • SaveNZ 4.3.2.1

         27 October 2018 at 11:32 am

         Work out how many paid ‘trips’ and ‘perks’ she receives from business and then look at what she promotes and you will see a pattern… I think she’s had free trips to China, Israel, those are the publicised ones…
         • Stuart Munro 4.3.2.1.1

           27 October 2018 at 11:54 am

           It goes with the job.

           You’ll notice Hosking doesn’t get them, though he writes for the same rag – he’s not journalist enough for his take to be worth anything.

           Fran is establishment – but at least she’s a thinker. And there are so many muppets nowadays who aren’t.
     • SaveNZ 4.3.3

       27 October 2018 at 11:45 am

       Bernard Orsman often has things worth reading about, as much as he can operate within the bounds of Granny.

       Granny also has Raybon Kan who is very funny, and also Steve Braunias.
       • Ankerrawshark 4.3.3.1

         27 October 2018 at 2:07 pm

         Simon Wilson is excellent and I think unbiased
         • patricia bremner 4.3.3.1.1

           28 October 2018 at 5:49 am

           I agree.
     • Treetop 4.3.4

       27 October 2018 at 12:42 pm

       Hager and John Campbell are my pick for most trusted.

       Some presenters are slick like Lisa Owen.
     • James 4.3.5

       27 October 2018 at 3:29 pm

       Which proves my point. I think Hagar is far from trustworthy.

       I think most try to do a good job.

       It’s all depending on your view.
   • Ankerrawshark 4.4

     27 October 2018 at 2:05 pm

     I trust Gordon Campbell. He does call labour on stuff and I always feel I am getting an informed view
   • Chris T 4.5

     27 October 2018 at 3:08 pm

     As is human nature

     Any one who always writes stuff someone agrees with will be their most trusted (and balanced).

     Any one who writes stuff they disagree with, their most biased
5. James 5

   27 October 2018 at 9:02 am

   They may have arrested the postal bomber in the US.

   https://edition.cnn.com/politics/live-news/clintons-obama-suspicious-packages/index.html

   If found guilty I’m guessing he will be spending the rest of his life in a US super max cell. As he should. (Pity we don’t have them here).
   • Dukeofurl 5.1

     27 October 2018 at 10:04 am

     Trump supporters are going crazy, by first claiming it was a false flag operation by those aligned to ‘liberals’, and now the evidence has pointed to an out and out Trump supporter , they are saying. It was Soros money which paid him to do it.

     Trump called them ‘devices’ rather than Bombs and other ways to deny what they are.
     “Republicans are doing so well in early voting, and at the polls, and now this “Bomb” stuff happens and the momentum greatly slows”

     https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2018/10/26/1807470/-Just-because-a-right-wing-Trump-supporter-is-in-custody-don-t-expect-the-conspiracy-theories-to-stop
     • joe90 5.1.1

       27 October 2018 at 12:26 pm

       He’s certainly a tRumpanzee.

       What we know of the MAGA Bomber from his Twitter Account (@hardrockintlent)— Leo Blake Carter (@ItsLeoBCarter) October 26, 2018

       https://twitter.com/itsleobcarter/status/1055867221912752129?s=21

       https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1055867221912752129.html?refreshed=yes

       #MAGABomber
       • marty mars 5.1.1.1

         27 October 2018 at 12:50 pm

         “In the past, “false flag” theories have mostly been aired in more openly conspiratorial media outlets like Alex Jones’s Infowars.

         The term has been used by Jones and other conspiracy theorists to allege that violent attacks have been carried out not by their apparent authors, but by powerful, manipulative actors seeking to deceive observers and hide their own responsibility. Its adoption this week by a broad range of rightwingers suggests an increasing openness to conspiracy theory in more mainstream conservative media.

         Bombs sent, people threatened … Trump’s response? Attack the media.

         The term has been used by Jones and other conspiracy theorists to allege that violent attacks have been carried out not by their apparent authors, but by powerful, manipulative actors seeking to deceive observers and hide their own responsibility. Its adoption this week by a broad range of rightwingers suggests an increasing openness to conspiracy theory in more mainstream conservative media.”

         https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/oct/26/pipe-bombs-false-flag-claims-ann-coulter-rush-limbaugh-conspiracy-theories
         • joe90 5.1.1.1.1

           27 October 2018 at 1:11 pm

           Just before the alleged bomber’s account was suspended someone archived his follows page. It only caught the first twenty or so but no doubt some of his more notable followees are flat out dumping stuff down the memory hole.

           http://archive.is/QG8VQ
6. alwyn 6

   27 October 2018 at 10:10 am

   Poor old Phil Twyford.
   Imagine having to get up and, in order to protect your boss who has been lying, you have to announce that you have known for the whole year that no other local body will be allowed to have a petrol tax.
   Meanwhile you have been telling at least one local body that they should apply to be allowed to levy the tax.

   This was after you had told everyone that you first heard about the proposal on the day it had been announced, and you had your associate Minister say that it was the actual announcement in Parliament that was the first he had heard about it.
   However the Captain has made a call and wants to lie about when she made it so you are forced to get up and tell everyone that you have a memory like a sieve, and have been gaily misleading the Local Bodies who have been relying on your word.

   I realise that Twyford is incompetent but I thought he had a little bit of a spine.
   Instead he seems to be like the person described so unfairly by, among others, Paul Keating, Mike Moore and Harold Wilson.
   “He is a shiver looking for a spine to run up”.
   What is it really about Ardern that prevents her from ever telling the truth about her actions?
   https://www.nzherald.co.nz/politics/news/article.cfm?c_id=280&objectid=12148656
   • shadrach 6.1

     27 October 2018 at 4:32 pm

     From your link:

     “Her comments follow Transport Minister Phil Twyford suggesting to Radio NZ this morning that he only found out about the ban yesterday, just hours before Ardern publicly ruled out any more regional fuel taxes while she is PM.”

     …then…

     “”I’ve been fully aware of the Prime Minister’s views on this issue going back to the beginning of this year,” Twyford said. Despite that, he did not inform any of the 14 councils that have expressed an interest in having a regional fuel tax.”

     and…

     “Twyford has previously encouraged Hamilton City Council to engage with the Minsitry of Transport about a regional fuel tax, and councillor Dave Macpherson said Ardern’s pledge was a kick in the guts.”

     If Twyford new about “the Prime Minister’s views on this issue going back to the beginning of this year”, then why was he encouraging councils to “engage with the Minsitry of Transport about a regional fuel tax.”?

     Either the PM is lying, or Twyford has lost the plot.
     • Gabby 6.1.1

       27 October 2018 at 8:15 pm

       Maybe he thought he could get her to change her mind shadders.
       • shadrach 6.1.1.1

         29 October 2018 at 3:58 pm

         Wouldn’t the best way to try to do that would be ‘in house’, rather than make one or both of them look silly?
   • AB 6.2

     27 October 2018 at 4:51 pm

     Ardern has excellent political radar (better than Key’s) and if her instincts tell her there’s an issue or threat, she changes tack. It’s an excellent trait and will serve the Coalition Of The Numerate (COTN) extremely well for a very long time.
     Twyford is a decent bloke who will ultimately be judged only on whether he can at least partially deflate the housing bubble deliberately engineered by the National Party to enrich their supporters and themselves, without caring in the least that it would mean permanent impoverishment for others.
     Such was the moral failure of the foetid Key-English government that no-one will be listening to your partisan nit-picking for years. This is a very, very good thing.

     Note: COTN means those people who realise that 37 + 7 +5 > 43
7. Dennis Frank 7

   27 October 2018 at 10:15 am

   Chris Trotter has a moan at the Greens, and I was rather surprised to conclude upon reading his rationale that I need offer no critique. Bill’s stance has seemed similar.
   http://bowalleyroad.blogspot.com/2018/10/who-do-greens-think-they-are.html

   It would help if the Green movement in Aotearoa had an authorititative non-parliamentary media presence. All we have currently is a sporadic stream of single-issue commentary from a bunch of Green groups content to rest on their laurels as an exhibition of middle-class complacency.
   • Bearded Git 7.1

     27 October 2018 at 10:37 am

     Trotter hates the Greens and has never really tried to understand them. He wants rid of them.

     He is an unreconstructed Old Lefty and writes very well, often brilliantly, about that sector of traditional left-wing union-dominated politics. Nothing wrong with any of that BTW-all power to the unions.

     But why he attacks the Greens when Labour will probably never be able to form a government without the Greens I can’t fathom.

     Meanwhile the Greens are polling 7% and doing fine.
     • SaveNZ 7.1.1

       27 October 2018 at 10:59 am

       You are right Trotter has never been too positive about the Greens, but the current Greens needs a kick up their arses and a dose of the real world.

       Banning Twitter is a must so they have interact with real people. Also going outside their normal cliques would probably keep them on a more even keel. Thankfully the Marama and James ‘tweets’ buttons on their websites don’t work or are empty- a metaphor??? who knows.

       The new look Green website has been changed so that Marama and James profiles are the leading navigation now.. (Policy 6th along), and about 60% of the site is made up of pics of Marama- crazy

       They should join forces with Patrick Gower as the news is starting to be about themselves against what is really going on.

       The only interesting thing I found was they they want to make donations over $1000 declared, but in my views does not go far enough, everything or at least everything over $100 should be declared plus make a crime for multiple donations to not be declared if they go over the figure. Do they want transparency or not?
       • SaveNZ 7.1.1.1

         27 October 2018 at 11:07 am

         Green Party welcomes review of Overseas Investment, will push for protection of water and Māori cultural values

         https://www.greens.org.nz/news/press-release/green-party-welcomes-review-overseas-investment-will-push-protection-water-and

         Again Greens are on the right track but then woefully don’t go far enough.

         The issue for OIA is also that the applicants put forward all these great proposals via their lawyers for OIA and there is no time frames or penalty if they fail to do what they say.

         They need to make the applicant who fails to do what they say to sell the asset and give the full amount back to government plus a fine based on the amount of the assets and the OIA legal costs, if they don’t come through with what they said they would when they bought the asset.

         There should also be some sort of public good as well in OIA, at present some of these assets are just being bought and what ever the applicant promised coming to zero with lost jobs, lost assets to community and doing the opposite of their intention.
       • solkta 7.1.1.2

         27 October 2018 at 11:10 am

         Banning Twitter is a must so they have interact with real people.

         Oh dear, not only do we have to deal with the fake left but now fake people as well.
         • SaveNZ 7.1.1.2.1

           27 October 2018 at 11:36 am

           Yes some naive still believe that social media is a true representation.

           “Up to 9.5 million net neutrality comments were made with stolen identities
           NY AG subpoenas lobby firms, says fake comments “distort[ed] public opinion.”

           https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2018/10/up-to-9-5-million-net-neutrality-comments-were-made-with-stolen-identities/
       • Bearded Git 7.1.1.3

         27 October 2018 at 11:26 am

         Mmmm…thanks for that SaveNZ….yes the cult of Marama weird.

         Transport is a good issue for the Greens-they need Genter back and firing.

         But they were the only party to vote against TPPA this week (or whatever it is called now). Trotter could have mentioned that.
         • SaveNZ 7.1.1.3.1

           27 October 2018 at 11:33 am

           Still better policy from Greens as you say the TPPA, but sadly instead of being the frontrunner on their promotions of their party… we get the Marama cult pics.
           • solkta 7.1.1.3.1.1

             27 October 2018 at 11:40 am

             A party promoting their new co-leader, how ridiculous.
             • SaveNZ …

               27 October 2018 at 11:48 am

               ridiculous, if it is at the expense of their polices and other members and community. 60% hogging of a website if ridiculous, as is forgetting to put on the real news of real policy fights aka Bearded Git says about TPPA – that is one of Greens big differences from all the other parties that sold out – they should be crying it from the roof tops.
               • solkta …

                 27 October 2018 at 11:52 am

                 60% hogging of a website

                 You must be looking at a different website.
                 • SaveNZ …

                   27 October 2018 at 12:04 pm

                   Yes you are right 60% is an overreaction. I guess I’m more interested in the party and it’s policies than the people. I don’t like the new look navigation that has too much (in my view) of the leaders rather than highlighting Green policy which in my view is why people like the Greens aka their Policy.

                   Too late for me to delete the above comment but I withdraw it, aka suggesting Marama is hogging the website, which is unfair. Sorry, when I looked again at the website again and wider subjects I could see that my comment was wrong.
     • Ankerrawshark 7.1.2

       27 October 2018 at 2:08 pm

       Trotter has attacked labour too
8. Dukeofurl 8

   27 October 2018 at 10:26 am

   Lovely story about Billy Connolly.
   https://www.stuff.co.nz/entertainment/books/107964345/billy-connolly-would-like-to-correct-a-misconception
   He had to correct a BBC reporter who was doing a sit down interview

   “”This must mean a lot to you, with you coming from nothing?”

   I looked at her, and I laughed.

   “I didnae come from nothing,” I told her. “I come from something.”

   he explains
   “There is this viewpoint that if you have come from the working class you have come from nothing, whereas the middle and upper classes are something, and I don’t hold with that opinion. I think the working class is something. It is everything. They are the builders of society, and without them the whole house falls down.”

   and
   “I am very proud to be working class, and especially a working-class Glaswegian who has worked in the shipyards. It is something, and don’t you forget it. I come from something. I come from the working class. And, most of all, I come from Scotland.”
   • JohnSelway 8.1

     27 October 2018 at 10:44 am

     Man, I can’t stand Connolly. Give me Dylan Moran or Louis C.K. any day
     • Dukeofurl 8.1.1

       27 October 2018 at 1:17 pm

       Cant stand Connolly ?
       Look again

       https://bettygeorgeassociates.com/2017/06/13/gp-prescribes-watching-billy-connolly-to-treat-depression/
       ‘facilitated a change of state within his patient through: laughter, guided visualisation and metaphor – because that is what Billy Connolly does so brilliantly.’
       • JohnSelway 8.1.1.1

         27 October 2018 at 1:21 pm

         Nope, just don’t like his comedy or style
         • I feel love 8.1.1.1.1

           27 October 2018 at 3:21 pm

           Louis CK? He was one of the many guys who got busted for sexual harassment wasn’t he? That’s some great quotes from Connolly, and true too, “from nothing”, how insulting.
           • JohnSelway 8.1.1.1.1.1

             27 October 2018 at 3:25 pm

             Indeed he was but that doesn’t make him any less funny, his assault admission not withstanding of course
             • McFlock …

               27 October 2018 at 3:55 pm

               I dunno. I really liked a lot of LCK’s stuff, but now it palls a bit. Especially the wank jokes.

               At least it wasn’t a cover to enable his offending, though, like it was for Cosby.
               • JohnSelway …

                 27 October 2018 at 4:05 pm

                 You are right in some of CK’s are less “imagine if…” and more “I did this…” if you follow me. Still funny as hell
   • ianmac 8.2

     27 October 2018 at 11:19 am

     Dukeofurl:I do like those words from Billy. They resonate. And those other middle class people who have been pulled and pushed “up” by wealthy parents, are not real people to me. To be measured by wealth seems so wrong.
9. greywarshark 9

   27 October 2018 at 11:28 am

   I’m doing a NZ blog check. What are people’s favourite blogs, including their own? And can yiou give a brief reason?
   • Dennis Frank 9.1

     27 October 2018 at 11:51 am

     Mine is currently being reconfigured but the dated original is still online, plus the other: http://www.alternativeaotearoa.org/ & http://altaotearoa.blogspot.com/

     I don’t actually have a favourite, seeing design and/or functionality flaws in all. I rate Public Address for combining culture with politics in a non-partisan frame suitable for centrists, whilst seeing it as inadequate at the political interface.

     Bowalley Road is an ongoing parade of Trotter’s antique leftism, but I’ll give him credit for wising up compared to the Political Review, which was show instead of substance.

     Pundit has the fatal flaw of being fronted by people most of whom have been absent non-contributors for years. Old wallpaper. Yet it still has helpful essays and discussions now & then. Werewolf disappoints more often than delivers. I was a fan when Gordon was doing his thing for the Listener in the seventies.

     The Archdruid is often excellent on political analysis, and on cultural analysis too. His esoterica is only partially compatible with mine, but he has Green street cred big-time.
   • Ankerrawshark 9.2

     27 October 2018 at 2:09 pm

     Favourite blog, the standard 100+
   • Bearded Git 9.3

     27 October 2018 at 2:33 pm

     I read Newsroom (good) Zerohedge (bit crappy very right wing but sometimes good info especially financial) thecanary (left wing UK) Realclearpolitics and nate silver’s site fivethirtyeight (to follow the US elections) but always start with the Standard.
     • greywarshark 9.3.1

       27 October 2018 at 8:46 pm

       Thanks for the replies. Any others who have a favourite one which should be read? .I will check again.
       • Incognito 9.3.1.1

         27 October 2018 at 9:16 pm

         I used to read The Political Scientist by Puddleglum but there hasn’t been a post for over a year now. They were long, intelligent & insightful, and full of compassion without being patronising, arrogant, or moralising. I do miss it.

         I also like exhALANt. Long posts on a wide variety of topics that are well supported with links and clearly not written in just half an hour – clearly a lot of background work goes into those posts (quality & quantity!). Again, compassionate comes to mind.

         I also used to read Boots Theory but that has gone quiet too. Good shorter posts from a strong intelligent woman with a great sense of humour.

         The only other NZ blogsite I visit is Sciblogs that covers a very wide range of topics, mostly on science stuff of course, but also the politics around it and its place in society. The MSM really dropped the ball in terms of science communication & reporting.

         That’s it for me as far as NZ blogs go; a surprisingly small number to keep an eye on 😉

         TS takes up much of my very few spare hours during the week and my mind can only cope with so much 🙁
         • greywarshark 9.3.1.1.1

           28 October 2018 at 11:13 am

           Thanks incognito
           I’ve noted those.
           I can concur withe your last para, and did a cost-benefit analysis! It showed too high an opportunity cost. Don’t know where Puddleglum went to but always worth reading, also Olwyn, always good, and many others gone. Some may be dead – a lot of us putting our minds to events are getting aged and maybe our minds give out or our time, as we need to pay attention to our failing cohort.
           • Incognito 9.3.1.1.1.1

             28 October 2018 at 11:31 am

             I’m glad to say that Puddleglum is still alive; the other day Carolyn_Nth, who’s apparently on Twitter, mentioned Puddleglum’s Twitter status: https://thestandard.org.nz/open-mike-21-10-2018/#comment-1539608

             Most but not all people when they get older learn to distinguish between what’s more and less important and accordingly waste less of their time on irrelevant trivia.

             One would hope and like to think that many a good poster/commenter here on TS have active lives outside of TS and more enjoyable activities than banging their heads on an electronic device 😉

             This was (also) on my mind to me when I wrote my Post Fighting for a just cause is empowering.
             • veutoviper …

               28 October 2018 at 11:39 am

               Thanks for that. I always enjoyed reading Puddlegum’s comments so it is good to know they are still around and have now bookmarked the Twitter account.

               I also rechecked Weka’s Twitter account this morning, and it seems she has not tweeted since April when she left here also.

               I do hope all is well with her. And Tracey also.
               • Incognito …

                 28 October 2018 at 11:54 am

                 I cannot shine any light on Weka but I do join you in wishing her and Tracey all the best for them.
                 • solkta …

                   28 October 2018 at 12:07 pm

                   +1
             • greywarshark …

               28 October 2018 at 6:52 pm

               It certainly will be empowering when you are with a keen, enquiring, friendly, envisaging and visionary, loyal team.
10. SaveNZ 10

    27 October 2018 at 11:57 am

    Tragic story

    Mum of boy who died in gas-powered shower talks of her pain

    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12148046

    Hope they get to the bottom of what caused the poisoning as it sounds like it was installed by a plumber.

    Can’t think of anything worse than losing a child – especially in a freak accident like that.

    The other day was talking to someone and they said a gas powered oven blew up because a ring that was supposed to be fitted to meet NZ standards had not been fitted. The oven was fine, it was correctly installed, but the reseller had not inserted the correct part.
11. Dennis Frank 11

    27 October 2018 at 12:20 pm

    Chris Trotter has also published an analysis of the warping effect of parliament on how the media report politics. His thesis identifies proximity to power as the warp factor. All very `absolutely negatively Wellington’…

    “National’s proposed review does, however, serve as a useful pointer to our capital city’s flawed culture of power – as well as to its long-standing imperviousness to reform. There is simply too much power on offer in Wellington for anyone with the slightest chance of wielding it, limiting it.”

    “Proximity lies at the heart of the capital’s power culture. The higher an ambitious person climbs, the closer they get to the people who exercise decisive political authority. This proximity works both vertically and horizontally. The higher one climbs, the more opportunities one finds to influence the course of events. This, in turn, encourages other ambitious souls to get as close as possible to the successful climber. Power in Wellington thus flows not only up and down the city’s many hierarchies, but also through them, spreading outwards in all directions.”

    “In the centre of this three-dimensional web of power looms the parliamentary complex. The Beehive and the House of Representatives are the most obvious repositories of executive and legislative authority. Easily forgotten, however, when mapping the distribution of power, is the Parliamentary Press Gallery. Its members enjoy an enviable degree of access to the entire cast of Government and Opposition players. In the proximity-to-power stakes, few get as up-close-and-personal as political journalists.”

    He proceeds to explain the incentive structure that motivates the reportage, to establish a persuasive thesis: http://bowalleyroad.blogspot.com/2018/10/too-close-for-comfort.html
    • Dukeofurl 11.1

      27 October 2018 at 1:13 pm

      And we see the curtain parted slightly when Bridges went ballistic against the Gallery media, as in this Tracy Watkins story

      Bridges’ valve burst Wednesday evening when he phoned around political editors to warn them he had been defamed and his reputation damaged.[ie repeat it and the lawyers will go after you]

      In his conversation with me, he threatened to walk away from our weekly interview because I was too negative.

      Warning the political editors about defamation seems to have worked, the only words about Ross tapes now acceptable is ‘exonerated’ – when of course it does no such thing, as Ross will still have additional first hand testimony
      https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/opinion/107971088/the-jamilee-ross-saga–dirty-ugly-nasty-politics-with-no-end-in-sight
      • Dennis Frank 11.1.1

        27 October 2018 at 1:26 pm

        Yes indeed. Could be just me, but does seem rather trumpian of him to venture off into an aggressive campaign against the media. One can easily imagine the political psychology motivating him: “Me Don Quixote, have big lance, will joust vigorously against the nasty media barbarians!”
        • Dukeofurl 11.1.1.1

          27 October 2018 at 1:33 pm

          I skimmed the Trotter story and this stood out for me

          If the true function of a parliamentary press gallery journalist is act as the glove into which power inserts its steely hand, then their formal democratic role is nothing but a sham.

          and this is a follow up to questions about how close Ross was to journalists and some that have ‘lost their voice totally in the last 2 weeks’- never a good thing to have writers block when your beat is a fast news cycle ! LOL

          “Was Jami-Lee’s downfall the result of him having too many enemies in National’s caucus – or too many friends in the Press Gallery”
12. adam 12

    27 October 2018 at 12:56 pm

    If you need a laugh. 30 minutes.

    Love the drag name!!!

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ek_a4qZwex8&ab_channel=Ovid
    • Rosemary McDonald 12.1

      27 October 2018 at 1:29 pm

      “If you need a laugh.”

      Yes. Please. Thank you.

      Nicely rounds out Connolly, and a belated introduction to Jim Jeffries.
13. Rosemary McDonald 13

    27 October 2018 at 4:04 pm

    So, gala event in Papakura today. They have the lights, cameras, the politicians and most importantly the iconic Kiwi bard warbling in the background.

    Welcome Home!

    To your affordable $649,000 Kiwibuild house.

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/108157197/first-kiwibuild-families-welcomed-to-new-homes-by-prime-minister

    And, now here is where you have to suspend credulity a little…

    “First KiwiBuild families continues Labour tradition of providing decent, warm, dry homes…..”I won’t be carrying a coffee table today,” Ardern told residents at the new McLennan Park development, a reference to the famous image of former Labour Prime Minister Michael Joseph Savage lifting a dining table through the crowd at the opening of the first state house in 1937.”

    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12149888

    Sorry if others have already shared these wonderful news stories here…I did look…

    Perhaps even the most ardent Ardern flagwavers are hanging their heads in embarrassment?
    • AsleepWhileWalking 13.1

      27 October 2018 at 8:45 pm

      Is anyone else thinking this will bite them in the arse once those buyers find themselves underwater?

      Spiralling cost of living + looming GFC mark II, the depression version *shakes head* equals historic moment, but not one you necessarily want photographed.
      • Sabine 13.1.1

        27 October 2018 at 9:04 pm

        spiralling cost of living + looming GFC mark II, the depression, etc will do in anyone – mortgage holder or not.

        in fact those holding a mortgage can at least try to find flat mates to help with the cost, but those who rent a shit outta luck under your scenario and can fight for a place under a bridge or in a bus stop??…..

        what would be an affordable houseprice price for a million + people city, powerhouse – in fact teh only place in NZ where once has at least a fighting chance at full time all year round work ?

        compared to the rest of the country? Serious question.

        And then next serious question, why do all houses need to come with a double garage, a ‘entrance hallway with chandelier’, dishwasher and such? Maybe people don’t actually want affordable, but rather trimmings n shit.
      • Rosemary McDonald 13.1.2

        27 October 2018 at 9:23 pm

        “Is anyone else thinking this will bite them in the arse….?”

        I thought earlier that their arses would have been well and truly bitten by the mere fact that Our Shiny New Leader very clumsily referenced Savage helping the first State House tenants move in in 1937….their rent being one third of the household’s income. https://nzhistory.govt.nz/culture/we-call-it-home/first-state-house

        As if we wouldn’t go lookitup! Fast forward to the 60th birthday of that very first state house and the…

        “…the Nysse family, John and Winnie and their three children. The family told the New Zealand Herald that they were finding it difficult to make ends meet under the regime of market rents introduced in 1991. The family’s sole source of income was John’s pension, which brought in $292 per week. After paying a rental of $215, the family was left with just $77 to live on. Whereas the McGregor family had handed over about a third of their income to live in 12 Fife Lane, the Nysse family paid nearly three-quarters of theirs.”

        I digress. And am wrongly conflating as I am wont to do.

        As if the struggles in 1997 of the Nysee family under the ‘regime of market rents…’ can in anyway be connected to the absolute flucking irony of a current Labour Prime Minister exploiting the birth of state housing in New Zealand at an event assuring their backers of the continuation of government obeisance to the gods of the Market.

        Whew.

        Thought we were looking at some kind of radical turn- the- clock- back- to -kinder times type crap.
    • patricia bremner 13.2

      27 October 2018 at 10:54 pm

      Rosemary “the most ardent Ardern flag wavers are hanging their heads in embarrassment” After reading your comments twice I decided they say more about you than them.

      The Government is building state homes, kiwi build homes and partnership homes in an endeavour to make a difference to the availability of houses as homes not gambling chips for developers. Prices have actually begun to stabilise.

      You forgot to quote Jacinda’s comment that working middle NZers wanting a home had been shut out in Auckland where the average $million home was out of reach. So $649.000 is $351 000 less is a success in Auckland, and prices will be lower elsewhere in the country for a 4 bed home.

      You also didn’t mention how thrilled the couple were. Quote “It felt like winning Lotto to win the ballot to get one of the first 18 houses.
      So what was the point of your comment? They should build only state houses.? or
      IKiwibuild is a failure because you say so? or Noone should wave a flag at Ardern/Twyford’s parade? or Perhaps I missed something?
      • Rosemary McDonald 13.2.1

        27 October 2018 at 11:25 pm

        Did you miss the bit where Ardern tried to join today’s event with Savage helping the first State House tenants move in back in 1937?

        To compare the two is…well…deceitful, and the glamour only works because it seems that the premise that the COL seems to be relying on, to wit, the bulk of the voting public are fwits, holds true.

        And maybe you can help me out here….the featured couple who bought the reasonably priced four bedroom Kiwibuild home…where were their children?
        • patricia bremner 13.2.1.1

          28 October 2018 at 12:03 am

          They have a little girl I believe. The Mother is a graduating Doctor. Yes Perhaps they should have kept those comparisons for state homes. Don’t forget as soon as in Nov their mortgage takes over, the Governments money will be recycled into another kiwi build home.
          • Rosemary McDonald 13.2.1.1.1

            28 October 2018 at 1:02 am

            And, as if on cue, Ardern shares a wee note on Instagram from a new friend….

            https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12149999

            patricia, it is hard not to be skeptical after nearly a decade of National, who continued the fine work of the previous Labour government.

            National took using the media to polish their image to new heights (or depths), and Key was more than happy to play the grinning fool frontman while the true power operated behind the scenes.

            I am yet to be convinced that this PM is not being similarly deployed.

            I am not the only left leaning voter who is immune to the hype, and it is our vote which will be needed at the next election if this government’s high sounding plans have a chance to be realised.

            Today’s event was poorly constructed and Ardern’s use of the Savage reference was clumsy. And that’s the trouble with turning such an event into a political campaign….a major slip like that will be seen by all. A smart media advisor should be working out a way to mitigate the damage.

            Or not.

            They can gamble on securing the vote of the hard working middle and say ‘stuff the poor and the sick and the disabled, we’ll pitch to the middle with Kiwibuild and a few we-do-give-a-shit-about the-planet policies’ and hope like hell that National aren’t able to rise from the ashes by the time the hoardings go up.
            • patricia bremner 13.2.1.1.1.1

              28 October 2018 at 6:28 am

              Rosemary, the carer’s and poor issues should have higher priority for sure.
              Housing New Zealand has news item 24th October 2018 you might find interesting. Regenerating regional nz housing.
14. UncookedSelachimorpha 14

    27 October 2018 at 7:00 pm

    A short and pointless attack piece from Brigitte Morten on RNZ. Actually seems like she is struggling to find an angle to attack on.

    She refers to “what they delivered to taxpayers”. Of course a government should deliver to citizens, regardless of what tax they are paying. A Freudian slip from a right-wing mentality – unable to see the difference between a community and a country – and a profit-seeking business.

    https://www.radionz.co.nz/news/national/369614/few-fireworks-in-labour-nz-first-marriage-but-is-govt-delivering
    • Muttonbird 14.1

      27 October 2018 at 7:06 pm

      That article seems weird. Is there just the six paragraphs to it?

      That opinion writer of course is a past National Party communications person.
      • Ed 14.1.1

        27 October 2018 at 8:33 pm

        RNZ continues to be a disappointment.
      • OnceWasTim 14.1.2

        27 October 2018 at 8:35 pm

        The sad thing is I think she’s actually being serious too.
      • UncookedSelachimorpha 14.1.3

        28 October 2018 at 12:05 am

        It is really short – just having a jab at the government as a reflex action. No substance at all.
15. WeTheBleeple 15

    27 October 2018 at 8:29 pm

    Why does Bernard Orsman need to comment on what Jacinda’s wearing? What a twat.

    Did you not see Phil’s tie?

    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12149888
    • OnceWasTim 15.1

      27 October 2018 at 8:48 pm

      Because he’s an old fossil that thinks she’s really a nice young filly despite all her silly politics?
      And there was also NZ’s musical icon – a balding Dave Dobbyn dressed in a designer shirt and jeans singing ‘Welcome Home’
    • Muttonbird 15.2

      27 October 2018 at 9:18 pm

      Great shot from Greg Bowker. I went to photo school with him.
16. Jenny 16

    27 October 2018 at 8:55 pm

    The Trumpocalypse rumbles on.

    I predicted that if Trump loses the midterms that his supporters would react violently against the people and organisations Trump regularly targets in his speeches.

    It looks like one of his supporters couldn’t wait that long.

    When this Right Wing violence targeting the Left breaks out, and Left act to defend themselves, I think we can expect that Donald Trump will say again, “There was violence on both sides folks.”
    Before using the unrest to impose martial law.

    “Rupert Murdoch’s Fox News Channel and right-wing radio have preyed upon those who’ve seen their American Dream go up in smoke, and they have helped to create a generation of angry and violent conspiracy theorists who will believe any lie that is perpetrated on those airwaves. These angry right wing men have been openly encouraged to act on those lies, even as late as this very morning when Trump was tweeting his doubts that the bombs were real.”

    Michael Moore

    https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/michael-moore-responds-his-picture-found-bombing-suspects-van-1155626

    Trump denounces Right Wing violence
    (Sort of)

    After condemning violence Trump goes on to minimise the bombing threats by likening these attacks to the criticism he commonly receives from the media.
    • Sabine 16.1

      27 October 2018 at 8:57 pm

      any day now America will be great again.
    • joe90 16.2

      27 October 2018 at 9:07 pm

      Apparently it’s their financial anxiety that leads them believe anything.

      WATCH: Talking to Trump supporters before tonight's rally, our @alivitali met one man who said he thinks Barack Obama & Hillary Clinton probably mailed pipe bombs to themselves. Learn more: https://t.co/Vkt9v3Klyw #11MSNBC #11thHour pic.twitter.com/OWyDoHT4Hf— 11th Hour (@11thHour) October 27, 2018
      • Sabine 16.2.1

        27 October 2018 at 11:11 pm

        but only the economic anxiety of the white male working class matter. All other workers need not apply.
17. joe90 17

    27 October 2018 at 9:23 pm

    Brain bleach, STAT!

    "I got the first package and, sadly, mine went off." – @StormyDaniels #RealTime pic.twitter.com/M8r7frBRBa— Real Time (@RealTimers) October 27, 2018
18. JC 18

    27 October 2018 at 11:14 pm

    A tough night. but so you don’t have to …

    @JudithCollinsMP ;

    “Now, this makes me happy. Good men focused on helping others in need.”

    https://twitter.com/JudithCollinsMP/status/1055629668680757250

    Hypocrisy. Or Code?
19. Rosemary McDonald 19

    27 October 2018 at 11:57 pm

    RIP

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SWY47W_K8c8
20. newsense 20

    28 October 2018 at 4:06 am

    https://www.newsroom.co.nz/2018/10/25/292240/tvnz-could-merge-with-rnz-kevin-kenrick

    We get to see if Faafoi is worth a damn. TVNZ and RNZ need to be kept far apart. RNZ while less than perfect, is still the last bastion
21. eco maori 21

    28 October 2018 at 9:18 am

    Kia ora Robert from R&R Aotearoa has some raciest bias problem but by know means is it as bad as the other 4 eyes they have a much bigger problems with raciest problems.
    Stereotyping maori a theft that’s the mindset the sandflys think I have got but we know that there ancestor robbed maori .
    So teaching the all the moko’s about our history and how great maori culture is will be the way to change the other cultures views on Maori .
    Ka kite ano P.S Thats correct Maori are raciest to I have said what my nicname was when I was young no one is going to call me that now.
22. eco maori 22

    28 October 2018 at 9:50 am

    The Hui doctor Joe Williams should be given a taonga for his work in using natural .
    Cream for healing eczema that has healed a lot of people.
    You know that big Pharma are pushing to suppress Doctor Joe and his cures the old who suppressing alternative medicines they cannot charge you if you can use plants to heal people.
    Ka pai to the first Wahine Maori Temata as the student president of Victoria University .
    I say she will make a good politician Ka pai.
    Ka kite ano
23. eco maori 23

    28 October 2018 at 12:10 pm

    Obama cited a recent Trump comment that he would pass a tax cut before the November election. “Congress isn’t even in session before the election. He just makes stuff up,” he said. Ana to kai trump . Ka kite ano trump Ka kite ano link is below.

    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/oct/27/barack-obama-takes-aim-at-donald-trump-for-making-stuff-up-us-midterms
24. eco maori 24

    28 October 2018 at 4:43 pm

    Before national got into power 10 years ago I remember seeing story comparing Aus Brit NZ grocery prices and NZ was the cheapest there is noway any peoples government should let our country have duopoly being in control of any industry let alone our food supply industry’s these company’s are just bleeding NZ dry. Time to reset there game how can it be justified that one can buy NZ grown food in Britain & Aussie cheaper than NZ .
    The Countdown group of New Zealand stores reported revenue of $6.36b and profit of $284m this year, with a gross margin of 24.2 per cent.
    In the South Island, Foodstuffs’ revenue was more than $3 billion, with operating profit of more than $293m. It distributed to its members $280m, an increase of $6.6m or 2.4 per cent for the latest financial year, including a “loyalty rebate” of $53m.
    Foodstuffs North Island, which claims 47 per cent market share in its latest annual report, recorded revenue of $6.6 billion and operating profit of $210.4 million. Its chairman’s report said putting pressure on costs had reduced supply chain costs by $5m, and helped it distribute $140.3m to co-operative members in the year.
    Ka kite ano link below.

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/money/108114861/is-new-zealands-supermarket-duopoly-ripping-us-off
25. eco maori 25

    28 October 2018 at 6:29 pm

    Kia ora Newshub Its a windy day in Wellington Melisa tawhiri doing the his thing.
    Eco Maori gives condolences to the family’s who lost love one in the Pittsburgh shooting.
    Loyd that helicopter crash in Leicester after the soccer match is a shocker did the owner go down in that crash condolences to the family’s to .
    Doctor Joe I thought it was a organic cream why has he been fined it works and some big companys are selling prouducts that kill he is not making millions off it just healing the sick. Its a illusion .
    The will to live is a good Idea to support farmers mental health our farmers are put under a lot of stress. Ka kite ano P.S I have a actor that’s a little distraction

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