Open mike 27/12/2023

16 comments on “Open mike 27/12/2023 ”

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1. Robert Guyton 1

   27 December 2023 at 9:51 am

   Tax sugar? Why, of course!

   Ben Kepes covers the issue really well, imo.

   " To put it simply, we (the communal we) are uneducated and have a poor understanding of the impacts of our consumption on our health, our communities and our systems.

   And that's the part we need to work on. Unless we all understand these things and make decisions taking into account a broader interest pool than simply our own selfishness, we will eternally be finding ambulances to position at the bottom of the cliff. Yes, the government needs to pull some levers to encourage a change, but we all need to step up as well. That's when we'll make enduring progress."

   https://www.thepress.co.nz/a/nz-news/350136371/yes-we-should-have-sugar-tax-we-also-need-personal-responsibility
2. Pat 2

   27 December 2023 at 9:52 am

   A world gone mad or energy, economics and human behaviour?

   A 30 minute conversation with John Michael Greer who outlines his thesis of catabolic collapse.
   • Robert Guyton 2.1

     27 December 2023 at 2:44 pm

     Greer's interesting – I've been reading him for years and have learned from him – I especially enjoyed his re-telling of the Tolkien's trilogy where Frodo says, "Nah, don't think I'll go"..:-)
     • Belladonna 2.1.1

       28 December 2023 at 9:07 am

       I especially enjoyed his re-telling of the Tolkien's trilogy where Frodo says, "Nah, don't think I'll go"..:-)

       Bet it's a short book.
3. weka 3

   27 December 2023 at 10:00 am

   I think the imagination is the single most useful tool mankind possesses. It beats the opposable thumb. I can imagine living without my thumbs, but not without my imagination.

   …

   The imagination is an essential tool of the mind, a fundamental way of thinking, an indispensable means of becoming and remaining human.

   Ursula K Le Guin

   https://thedewdrop.org/2019/09/27/ursula-le-guin-and-the-importance-of-imagination
   • Robert Guyton 3.1

     27 December 2023 at 2:33 pm

     100% agree – now, let's talk about that 🙂
     • weka 3.1.1

       27 December 2023 at 3:58 pm

       ok!

       I'm listening to Rob Hopkins' 'From what is to what if…' on audiobook. His basic premise is that imagination is critical to solving the great crises, and we have been losing our capacity for imagination at the worst possible time.

       Of course it's not a coincidence that the crises are happening at the same time as the loss of imagination (same dynamic).

       A bit part of his solution thinking is around children and play. There's a lovely chapter on what happens when you close residential streets to traffic even for a few hours. The adults even eventually join in.

       Plus lots of permaculture thinking and function stacking.

       Under all of that for me is the utter necessity to start telling people different stories. This both heals our imagination capacities, and gives us pathways through the current mire.

       For myself, I have to limit my exposure to the hard stuff, because I have a good imagination and it's easy to see just how bad things could get. I also notice a dearth of the stories about how things can work out, which then feeds into a kind of political reaction typical of what many experience now – the urge to act with the old tools we have, or switch off. We need to be handing people new tools! Imagination is one, and it's also the way we find the new tools.
       • Robert Guyton 3.1.1.1

         27 December 2023 at 9:29 pm

         I'm thinking having "imagination" requires the ability to create images with your eyes closed. Most people (perhaps) can only muster vague visual hints compared to what the see when watching a movie. I believe this has not always been the case. In times past, humans were able to "conjure up" vivid images and manipulate them with their will. This allows limitless creativity and experimentation with concepts given images are ephemeral and, unlike the use of lab rats for experimentation, harms no creature. Nowadays, most people seem to imagine in a linear, time-bound, sequential manner, under the influence of our science-based culture. Long ago, and in some situations in the present time, people were not constrained by that culture and could :set their imagination" into action and watch outcomes of all stripes unfold. Creative people, or rather those who still imagine in an unconstrained manner; visual artists, poets, visionaries – some of who are scientists, do this to some extent and are usually thought odd for it. But this is where I believe the path out of our present predicament lies. Those imagination skills can be taught, as Goethe describes with his encouragement to observe, draw then recreate in the dark, and there are other processes that help build that imagination muscle we have allowed to atrophy. In my view, until we strengthen it again, we are doomed to endlessly circle the dull star of our own creation. I also believe we will re-learn, unlock our ability to imagine creatively but also that we better get cracking with it!

         My thought today was: every thought yearns to become material; that is, every idea that sparks in the mind of every conscious entity seeks to begin a chain of self-reproduction and family-building 🙂
4. Ffloyd 4

   27 December 2023 at 12:06 pm

   Who is Sean Fernandez? Is he being paid to do his hatchet videos against the Left?
5. Stephen D 5

   27 December 2023 at 1:37 pm

   Now here’s a good idea.

   https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/in-depth/505616/how-citizens-assemblies-could-resolve-new-zealand-s-toughest-debates

   “Citizens' assemblies originated in ancient Greece, but have made a resurgence in the last decade and are now commonly used throughout Europe, the United States, Canada and in Australia.”

   Our tax structure could be another one.
   • weka 5.1

     27 December 2023 at 4:56 pm

     wow, that's one of the best things I've ever read on Citizens' Assemblies. What a treat.

     I hope someone writes soon about the ways in which Marae function as citizens assemblies, and/or deliberative democracy.

     I wonder if we could do an adapted version of CAs on TS.
   • Johnr 5.2

     27 December 2023 at 5:32 pm

     That is a wonderful idea. The article mentions the growing mistrust of authority and media so I wonder how it could in practice be implemented here.

     Given that we are such a corrupt back scratching society, nods and winks all round. And, that a former John key employee in the shape of Gluckman is all for it, gerrymandering comes to mind.

     We have some very clever political manipulators in this country and if they were to chair or influence these forums I could well see them getting the results they want
     • Stephen D 5.2.1

       27 December 2023 at 7:22 pm

       Aye, there’s the rub.

       Who chooses the citizens?

       We’d certainly need advice on how to do that.
6. Jilly Bee 6

   27 December 2023 at 4:13 pm

   What is the matter with some people – just read this on Stuff.

   https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/133506582/endangered-native-dotterel-chick-missing-after-vandals-trash-breeding-site
   • Patricia Bremner 6.1

     27 December 2023 at 7:04 pm

     So sad Jilly Bee. This is my original home area. To me it smacks of someone not happy about naming the birds for Helen Clark's father. There has not been that sort of destruction before. It appears very targeted and deliberate. Barry Jesney and the Beach protectors will be distraught. His Waihi Beach calendars show the beauty of the area.
     • Belladonna 6.1.1

       28 December 2023 at 9:15 am

       I doubt that anyone other than the protection group concerned knew the chick was named after Clark's father. And highly unlikely the chick was targeted by the thugs (almost impossible to find them). More likely taken by a predator after the protection was removed.

       Suggest two alternatives are more likely.

       1. Mindless vandalism. Much like the ram raids on dairies for a moment of fame on TikTok. Destruction out of proportion to the gain.

       2. Locals angry about that area of the beach being closed for their access (because of the nest protection). Probably fueled by too many drinks over the holiday weekend. No better – but at least there is a reason.

       In both cases, the local police almost certainly know who the culprits are. The challenge will be finding the evidence against them.

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