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Open mike 27/07/2015

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, July 27th, 2015 - 153 comments
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153 comments on “Open mike 27/07/2015 ”

  1. Paul 1

    So signing the TPP will mean that we cannot control the ownership of New Zealand by foreign speculators.
    Just another reason why this ‘free trade’ treaty would be a disaster for everyone in New Zealand except the 1%. And guess who controls the media?


    • Draco T Bastard 1.1

      Just more proof that the TPPA isn’t a ‘free-trade’ agreement but a takeover of the nations by the corporations and the rich.

      We gain no benefit allowing foreign ownership in NZ but we do lose a lot.

      • Gosman 1.1.1

        Except Zanu-PF in Zimbabwe used to think the same way you do. Now they are positively begging for foreign investors as they haven’t got any money of their own.



        • Draco T Bastard

          Their problem isn’t money but their failure to use their own money to utilise their resources. Foreign investment would fail there as well and for the same reasons – a small group of people taking too much for themselves.

          • Gosman

            They tried doing what you suggested. They destroyed their currency and were forced to use other nations money. That is where YOUR policies lead to Draco. It is inevitable. Why do you think Venezuela is about to experience hyper-inflation now?

            • DH

              You really are full of it Gosman. The only reason we ‘need’ foreign investment is so the country can continue paying the dividends on existing foreign investment.

              If NZ didn’t have a current account deficit we wouldn’t need foreign investment and if the country hadn’t taken in so much foreign investment in the past we wouldn’t have a current account deficit.

              Foreign investment does nothing for this country. Its only real achievement has been to drive up asset prices which makes the country less competitive in world markets.

              • Gosman

                Why do you think the Zimbabwe regime changed it’s tune in relation to foreign investment? What possible reason would they have to go from an anti-instment position to one in which they are positively begging that people invest there?

                • DH

                  Zimbabwe isn’t NZ and the two economies are not even remotely similar so why are you bringing it up?

                  • Gosman

                    Because it is the concepts expressed (and actually enacted in Zimbabwe’s case) which are common. Zimbabwe used to think they could do away with pesky foreign investment. They used their Monetary system in the way that Draco T Bastard believes it can be used here (i.e. they printed money to fund critical inputs in industry and farming). They drove away foreign capital and relied on their domestic base to support devlopment initiatives. This according to your logic should lead to wonderous outcomes. However only a few short years later we see the same Politicians begging for Foreign investors to come back. I find that fascinating don’t you?

                    • DH

                      That’s complete nonsense. Zimbabwe printed money without creating, buying or building assets to back that new money. Of course they suffered hyper-inflation.

                      They want foreign investment now primarily because their own money has no value on the international markets and they can’t import enough to keep them going.

                      NZ is nothing like Zimbabawe, and Zimbabwes problems have nothing whatsoever to do with foreign investment, so why are you bringing it up?

                    • Gosman

                      You are quite wrong. Zimbabwe printed money for the express aim of attempting to support their productive sector and to enable them to fund critical government spending such as civil service salaries and pensions. Do you not think support for civil servants and pensions is valuable spending?

                    • DH

                      Stop talking crap Gosman. Even a first year economics student should know that money creation without wealth creation causes inflation.

                      Zimbabwes troubles are entirely down to corruption, something most of the educated world knows. Foreign investment won’t help them, that will merely prolong the agony and let the crooks loot the nation’s wealth a little longer.

                    • Gosman

                      No, Zimbabwe’s problem is that they have a Government that thinks it is the job of government to create (or at least direct the creation of) wealth and that they can help their ‘people’ by using the auspices of State power to do so. In that regard they are very typical to your average leftist on this blog.

                    • Colonial Viper

                      Gosman simply uses the phrase “Zimbabwe” as a discussion stopper.

                      As an example it is irrelevant to NZ.

                      NZ can clearly afford to spend more on its people and its capabilities, Gossie is just trying to hide an inconvenient fact that political decisions have been made not to.

                      No, Zimbabwe’s problem is that they have a Government that thinks it is the job of government to create (or at least direct the creation of) wealth

                      Nah you don’t know shit about Zimbabwe government political economics.

                    • mikesh

                      I think you will find that they created money to repay overseas debt – odious debt at that. They had no alternative. I think also that Zimbabwe was “punished” for pursuing land policies which the lending countries disliked.

                    • DH

                      “I think you will find that they created money to repay overseas debt – ”

                      That’s not really possible mikesh. You can only print your own sovereign money and printing more just makes it worth less in foreign exchange. Overseas creditors would have needed to have their debt denominated in local currency for that to work and that’s not likely

                      Zimbabwe literally printed screeds of new money, they ended up with zillion whatever notes that were near worthless.

                • Tricledrown

                  Your argument is completely flaw Zimbabwe is under the control of a facist racist completely Corrupt Dictator.
                  No one will invest in that country .
                  Gooseman your a complete Dickhead.
                  Probably one of the 5 eyed spies paid to undermine constructive debate.
                  Your arguments are never rational or backed by hard facts.
                  You are paid purely to disrupt.

            • DoublePlusGood

              Funny how you always resort to developing nations or undeveloped nations with existing massive problems before they tried social policies for your examples, instead of successful Northern European social democracies.

              • Gosman

                The Northern European Social Democracies are the ones that are attempting to enforce austerity style policies on countries like Greece because they understand you can’t spend your way to prosperity.

                • DH

                  But you’re the one saying we need foreign investment Gosman. Greece are in trouble because they have too much foreign investment and now they can’t pay the dividends on it.

                  Make up your mind man!

                • Colonial Viper

                  The Northern European Social Democracies are the ones that are attempting to enforce austerity style policies on countries like Greece because they understand you can’t spend your way to prosperity.

                  Irrelevant chanting of catch phrases Gossie.

                  Germany wants to subjugate Greece as an example to other countries and other voters in the EU. It is a raw exercise of power as a warning to European democracies who think they can run their own affairs independent of Brussels.

                • mikesh

                  The Greeks were probably mugs to join the Eurozone in the first place.
                  However they were managing OK until financial assistance dried up as a result of the GFC. Who caused the GFC, Mr Gosman?

                  • Tricledrown

                    Mikesh Greece was fucked over by Goldman Sachs corrupting both right and left politicians wineing and Dining them on luxury super yatchs owned by non taxpaying super rich oliagarchs filling their Swiss bank accounts.
                    Then Goldman Sachs corrupted the Ratings Agencies to then defraud the Big European Banks of €100s of billions.
                    Now Greece is being forced to pay interest on printed Ponzi money $1.4 trillion being printed now by the ECB.
                    While Goldman Sachs and their corrupt ratings Agencies,Corrupted Center right and Center left politicians .
                    Goldman Sachs has not had to pay a single cent in reperation or face Jail time for this massive fraud that was exposed only after 2 senior Goldman Sachs officials blew the whistle.
                    Goldman Sachs and their Oliagarchs corrupt mates are still reaping massive amounts of money as the Greek economy gets screwed over as govt assets were flogged off at firesale price’s.
                    ie.the Greek govt owned lottery was sold for€1billion when it true worth was between €6 and€10 billion.
                    Sold by the same corrupt politicians.

                • Tricledrown

                  So why are Northern European countries printing $1.4 trillion dollars.
                  You are a fringe fundamentalist ACT supporter.

            • Draco T Bastard

              They tried doing what you suggested.

              No they didn’t. If they did then their economy would be working.

              They destroyed their currency and were forced to use other nations money.

              Yep, they did. They printed money with little to no restriction and while giving the productive land to the favoured few who then failed to use that land thus losing production.

              • Colonial Viper

                Yep Gossie doesn’t even understand the basics of supply and demand.

                Zimbabwe failed to invest the money it created in capabilities to create the valuable goods and services that would create a demand for payment in their currency.

                Hyper inflation set in because Zimbabwe did the reverse – it destroyed the nation’s ability to produce valuable goods and services, setting up an environment where there was lots of supply of the currency and no demand = hyperinflation.

        • Paul

          you really do talk nonsense.

      • Tautoko Mangō Mata 1.1.2

        From Fran O’Sullivan’s article

        “If there was ever a project in the economic sphere that exemplifies an effective partnership between United States hard power and New Zealand soft power it is TPP, the Trans Pacific Partnership.”

        It does concern me that Tim Groser has such a personal interest in seeing the TPPA signed that he will be seduced by the influence of the US flattery and not see the real “end game” of those who have hijacked the process.
        The bypassing of a state’s judicial system by the Investor State Dispute Settlement process, (originally designed to provide protection for corporations investing in 3rd world countries with dodgy judicial systems) is only being pushed by those who will abuse the system.

        “E moe ana te mata hī tuna, ara ana te mata hī taua.
        Though the eyes of the eel fisher might be closed in sleep, the eyes of the sentry are always awake.” (Reed Book of Māori Proverbs)

        Please remind Tim that he is the sentry for Aotearoa, not the eel fisher.

    • ianmac 1.2

      On Morning Report the Canadian was suggesting that Canada may pull out because of the risks to their sovereignty. Perhaps the Canadians have “more guts.”

      • Gosman 1.2.1

        Or perhaps the inefficient Canadian Dairy industry has disproportiate influence in the political system over there. I love the fact that you lefties make common cause with the Canadian Dairy indusrty. It would be like if Big Tobacco was opposed to the TPPA and you were cheering them on.

        • Macro

          Canada was shafted by the US-Canada FTA and NAFTA, Wheat and Grain farmers went to the wall (a very good friend of mine was a grain farmer there and his family had been on the land since the early 18th C – subsidized corn from the US destroyed their livelihood as it is doing to farmers around the world, and they can see the same happening for dairy. Canada has every reason to want to can this TPPA deal.

          • Ron

            If you want to see a good example about how Canada was sold down the river for USA benefit read the book or watch the movie The Arrow the story of how Canada’s Fighter Aircraft was destroyed on orders of their Prime Minister and all their plans designs etc were shipped to a USA.
            Amazing story of how Canada was forced to kowtow to USA

            • Colonial Viper

              Gossie thinks corporations should be allowed to exercise unlimited power while sovereign states should be constrained in every way possible. In other words, Gossie is promoting crony corporatocracy (with superficial trimmings of democracy) as his favoured form of rule.

              Amazing story of how Canada was forced to kowtow to USA

              Yet another example of the elite of a nation selling out their fellow countrymen.

            • Draco T Bastard

              CBC’s “The Arrow”

            • Macro

              Oh yes I know all about Black Friday. Friday, February 20th, 1959 is known as Black Friday in Canadian aviation, 52,000 workers lost their jobs, one of them was a good friend who remembers the day full well. I saw what was left of the Arrow last year when I visited the Canadian National Aeronautical Museum in Ottawa. It was an impressive aircraft – but suddenly outmoded with the advent of the space race. Much of the technology found its way into the Concord etc.
              For those unfamiliar with the story – se here:

              • half crown

                You can read the same thing about the TS2. Light years ahead of anyone, Australia was going to buy it but was “persuaded by the Yanks to buy that swing wing heap of shit called the F111. Like the Canadian’s were forced to but an American Missile that never worked.
                Wilson needed support from America to get an IMF loan. The plane was scrapped broken up and within a few weeks the only flying airframe was taken to a firing range for target practice. Bloody disgusting the Yanks don’t like other countries getting ahead with technology that could threaten their armaments industry.
                Wilson the fucking prat also at the same time cancelled a supersonic version of the Harrier jump jet. The ironic bit about all this, it cost the British and Australian tax payers more money (don’t know actual figures though I have heard double) by cancelling the TSR2 and going for that heap of unreliable crap called the F111
                That was the problem with the British aircraft Industry too many fucking prat politicians who did not know how to fix a fucking bike let alone the complexities of the aircraft industry that over the years fucked the great industry it was once.
                Sir Sydney Cam designer of the Hurricane and Hunter “I think” said the
                TSR2 had four dimensions length, width, height and politics. It got the first three right.

        • Tricledrown

          Or that all socialism is the same as Venezuela Gooseman.
          You have spun your self into several holes today gooseman.
          ie Northern European countries don’t spend their way to prosperity yeah rightright you are just a spin artist /BS

    • Chooky 1.3

      +100 Paul and DTB

  2. millsy 2

    TPP will lead to:

    weakened environmental law
    privatisation of water reticulation and community owned lines companies
    weakened labour law (companies sue the government for increasing minimum wage and expanding sick leave)
    higher power prices
    privatisation of health and education
    privatisation of what is left of our SOE’s

    Free trade has lead to nothing but unemployment and misery of thousands of people all so we can buy cheap iPads at harvey normans.

  3. Facetious 3

    Mr Peters has surpassed Mr Little in the preferred PM polling. Is it a good omen for a future Labour-New Zealand First coalition?

    • Puckish Rogue 3.1

      Don’t worry about it, the respected Mr Little is merely biding his time in the lead up to the next election because like a good sportsperson you don’t want to peak too early

    • Ben 3.2

      Certainly the elephant in the room, and glossed over once-lightly here at TS. Looking at the stats when the previous leaders were rolled, and now slipping into 3rd place Little should be worried (although not surprised as his electorate rejected him also). Trouble is that Labour cannot afford yet another change in leader, so it’s fingers crossed to 2017. He is going to get drubbing in the House this week, and Winston will lap it up.

      Anything that puts NZF in a stronger bargaining position is not good for Labour, or the Nats for that matter. But in Labour’s case, Winston would be pushing strongly for Deputy PM which would certainly ruffle a few cardies.

  4. Smilin 4

    Couldnt resist this one
    News -Sacking Serco is still an option -PM
    “Get some guts NZ BLAH BLAH

    • dv 4.1

      Betcha they don’t get sacked.
      Nats will probably employ the charter school model and give them more money, so to give the poor prisoners a better chance.

      • tc 4.1.1

        My monies on the contract being such that even if they want to sack SERCO it’ll cost the taxpayer.

        SERCO are experts at this type of situation as their business model is built on it.

    • Ffloyd 4.2

      I heard on radio this morning Serco has not even received a first written warning yet. What is it going to take?

  5. Puckish Rogue 5

    Can i post yet?

    [Yep, just took you out of moderation. TRP]

  6. Gosman 6

    Looks like the Venezuelan Socialist experiment is heading the same brutal totalitarian way as all the other efforts at creating a Socialist ‘paradise’.


    • vto 6.1

      Exactly like laws enacted in the US… or Guantanamo Bay ….

      I see the news services, owned by some of the richest corporations in the world who all make donations to US and UK and other political parties, have ramped up their one-eyed reporting on Venezuela recently again. Like Cuba all over.

      You shouldn’t believe everything you read in the paper gosman. The people who own the papers have heavily vested political interests.

      • Gosman 6.1.1

        I’m well aware of media bias thank you very much. What I am interested in is the facts and whether they point towards a particular discernable trend.

        What is quite clear from Venezuela is that the facts on the ground (Price controls, Shortages, Increased government powers, crack down on dissent) all point towards the same sort of outcome that most experiments in trying to implement Socialism end at.

        Which of the facts do you dispute? Do you deny shortages exist in Venezuela? Do you deny price controls have been implemented there? Do you deny the Government is now forcing farmers to sell to State owned stores as a matter of priority? Do you deny Opposition politicians and protestors are being arrested and thrown in to prison? Do myou deny that the Government is not even recording (or at least reporting) key statistics such as inflation?

        • vto

          Until I see independent presentation of facts, yes I do dispute them.

          The reason is that of media bias, which I explained to you, and you acknowledged, yet then continued to ignore.

          Why do you believe what you read in the media given you have acknowledged media bias and extreme conflict of interest?

          • Gosman

            Why do you ignore the facts of the situation? Even the Venezuelan Government grudgingly admits that the situation is not good. Hence why they have implemented such drastic steps as what they did with farmers last week.

            What is happening there is entirely predictable as I have pointed out. Have a read of this article. It points out how these sorts of situations play out.


            • Blue Hoeshoe

              The only thing you have ever pointed out is how incredibly ill informed and fixated you are with Venezuela and Zimbabwe

              Takes a special kind of stupid to keep reiterating your level of ignorance

              • Gosman

                If you dispute my facts point out others that paint a different picture then. Do you have evidence that Venezuela’s inflation is not increasing?

                • Blue Horseshoe

                  Listen up peanut.

                  Confining yourself inside such narrow parmeters stunts personal development and ensures you come across like a twat

                  Many here are interested in the welbeing of humanity and the planet, which is clearly outside your remit

                  So take your piss weak standard gossip point trollling, and jam it.

    • Tricledrown 6.2

      So from continuous corrupt right wing murderous facist dictatorships to a left wing dictatorship .
      Gooseman once again you have done no research just pushed your handlers propaganda using a little bit of the picture and adding BS to make your story line.

  7. Clean_power 7

    Maduro is in his last legs. He will be overthrown in a not so distant future, and Venezuela’s socialist nightmare, read poverty and misery, will come to an end.

    • maui 7.1

      You mean the poverty and misery will return again under a right-wing Government, that looks after the super rich first and foremost and ensures America has access to Venezuelan oil exports again.

      • Gosman 7.1.1

        If true then the question is why did Maduro fail to protect these people?

        • DoublePlusGood

          Because the US has been undermining Venezuela, and, like many countries, oil wealth and underdevelopment has lead to corruption.

    • Tricledrown 7.2

      You are so right but the tradgedy is 40% of Venezuela is Controlled by drug Cartels who getting rich of the US war on drugs policy.
      So what happens when Maduro goes.
      Nothing is going to change anyone who takes power and tries to stamp out corruption and take back the streets that the cartels control will be assassinated pronto.

  8. SPC 8

    The Key strategy.

    1. Say that should information gathered by the foreign tax ID show there was a problem the government might act to restrict offshore buy up.

    That is deliberately prevaricate on the issue waiting for TPP (which would ban blocks on foreign ownership) to prevent this option and end debate on it.

    2. Forced to admit that TPP would block action to prevent foreign buy up, he changes strategy to suggest a possible stamp duty on foreign buyers of residential property. He notes Oz does this (untrue their stamp duty applies for everyone).

    But the free trade deal with China already states that their investors must have the same tax rules as local investors. Thus we either have a stamp duty on all foreign buyers but the Chinese, or we apply it on local investors as well. Neither is plausible so again the prevarication until we have lost sovereignty on the issue and can then do nothing – it being beyond our control.

  9. SPC 9

    Given we have referendums when there is an impact on our constitutional framework – why is there no call for, or expectation of, a referendum to mandate the TPP?

  10. greywarshark 10

    Matthew Hooton blithely announcing on TPPA that if NZ wanted to walk away from TPPA, all that would be needed is six months notice. Easy peasy how he tells it.

    True?? If so what would be the fallout? There would be sure to be costs through penalties of different sorts.

    @freedom snap. And I didn’t notice Mike Williams offering seasoned advice on this point.

    • SPC 10.1

      Then it would be easy for Labour to simply leave TPP 6 months after being elected.

      • SPC 10.1.1

        The best time to return after leaving would be when the tariffs on dairy come to an end in 20 years time. By then we may have sorted out Auckland housing and farming economics. And the problem of affording super – made easier by not having Pharmac costs balloon out.

      • Matthew Hooton 10.1.2

        I assume that will be Labour’s policy, if in fact the deal is signed and ratified by the next election, which I doubt – but Groser is confident so I could be wrong.

        • freedom

          You stated, on Radio NZ earlier today, that NZ could walk away from the TPPA after giving six months notice.
          On what facts particular to the TPPA did you base your statement?

          • Gosman

            Why do you think he is wrong on this point? The same pretty much applies to every other international agreement NZ is part of. Even Climate change agreements can be ditched by any party to the agreement. What enforcement mechanism exists to keep us in CER for example?

            • McFlock

              Who said he’s wrong?

              It seems to be a reasonable request for information as to where one can get details about the TPPA.

              You might say other agreements have reasonable exit clauses, but that’s just inductive reasoning applied to a particularly incompetent government. The Eurozone does not seem to have exit mechanisms, for example.

              • Gosman

                The Eurozone doesn’t have a FORMAL exit mechanism. There would have been nothing stopping Greece from leaving it though. The issue is whether it would have impacted their membership of the EU as well given the requirements stipulated in that organisation. They could still have left though.

                • Colonial Viper

                  Talking out of another hole in your arse?

                  I’m amazed you think it’s acceptable to make up unilateral ad hoc exit procedures from international agreements. Perhaps we should name this Gossie’s Law?

                • McFlock

                  So I guess the question can be rephrased (especially for you, gos) “What basis does Hooten have for believing that there are formal mechanisms to leave the TPPA with ‘six months notice’?”
                  Furthermore, one could also ask “If Hooten used the phrase ‘walk away’, does that mean that he knows that those formal mechanisms would involve trivial impact based on requirements stipulated in the TPPA, and what basis does he have for believing that?”

            • Skinny

              Hooton is downplaying concerns as if it is as easy as pie up and opting out. It won’t be. Your barking mad if you think multi national conglomerates are going to let us off the hook once signed in.

              The corporates would send in the US Navy with guns pointing at the Beehive if we dare break the TPPA ranks.

            • freedom

              As McFlock mentions, it was a reasonable request given the unambiguous nature of Mr Hooton’s statement on RNZ
              maybe you missed it Gosman, jump to 23:20

              • Gosman

                You don’t seem to realise how International agreements work. They are generally via consensual agreement of all parties. Enforcement of agreements therefore can only be via the same way. The worst that could happen is that another party or parties to the agreement could impose some sanction on NZ but they could do that now. For example there is nothing stopping the US from imposing a trade embargo on us like they do with Cuba.

                • McFlock

                  Really? Then why don’t they?

                • freedom

                  The question is not how other agreements work, it is how the TPPA works.

                  Yet, ad nauseam, you ignore the reality of that circumstance.
                  The reality which says: we do not know how the TPPA will work because the terms are secret.
                  You have no clue about the TPPA’s structure! How do I know this? Simple deductive logic.
                  The structure is a form you can not know because it has not been shown to you. It has not been shown to any of us.
                  Or to put it another way…

                  It is the client being asked to sign off final plans of their new house, sight unseen, after being told by the architect via a scratchy toll call from overseas, that it’s a beautiful home and it sort of looks like that one down by #7 with bits of #32 from round the corner thrown on top. The architect’s steadfast assurance how the plans will be posted to you offers little in the way of consolation, since their delivery is not scheduled for several years after you take occupancy.

                  but you know all of this already
                  which leaves us in familiar territory, pondering the point of your disingenuous discussion
                  and feeling a little sad at your desperation to follow the lies regardless the cost to your own intellectual dignity

                • Matthew Hooton

                  Yes there is. This would be illegal under WTO rules.

                  • Gosman

                    That doesn’t stop a country doing it. All the WTO rules allow is if a country is found to be in breach the wronged party can impose counter sanctions.

    • Colonial Viper 10.2

      Hooton would not have access to the text of the TPPA, so he is just acting as a repeater of someone elses opinion.

      • greywarshark 10.2.1

        Yes no doubt. He reminds me of an old popular song Little Sir Echo how do you do.
        I made the point that we can learn from what has happened to other signees, learn and beware.

        I couldn’t resist looking on google. Just everything is there = and what did I find the Wiggles singing the song. One of the singers even looks a wee bit like Hooton.

      • Gosman 10.2.2

        Why do you think countries would not be allowed to leave? That is certainly not how other international agreements tend to work.

        • McFlock

          lol “tend to”.

          You’re speaking out of a hole in your arse.

          • Gosman

            Read my post above and answer the following question – What is stopping the US from imposing Trade sanctions on us at the moment?

            • McFlock

              So you know fuck all about international relations.

              The president might have limited powers to impose sanctions via executive order (although declaring us an enemy under the war powers act might be viewed as a tad OTT by the rest of the world, or even within the US).

              But then if the TPPA is signed having had the fast-track from congress, there might be enabling clauses that ease the path for fines and sanctions should we withdraw. Penalties if we back out. Powers for international bodies or the executive that don’t apply until we’re in the TPPA. A bit like how I’m not liable for a bond until I sign a lease for a room, but after that I might lose the bond if I break the lease early.

              • Matthew Hooton

                It “might” have any of these things. Except that it doesn’t.

                • Paul

                  The TPP is being signed in secret.
                  It was dishonest of you to say what you did.
                  But then you are in marketing and pr.
                  When does telling the truth come first in that profession?

                • Tricledrown

                  So you have read the TPPA Mathew .
                  Tell us moron this before we are subjugated.
                  Tell us only Dairy is being opened up while the rest of our agricultural exports won’t be included.our broadband won’t be regulated.
                  Pharmac undermined by a few sneeky clauses,that our businesses and govt won’t be sued.

            • Tricledrown

              Like not letting our agriculture exports have free access to their market Goose brain.

        • Paul

          Yes Gosman. Events in Greece prove that, don’t they?
          You are wilfully ignorant I hope.

  11. freedom 11

    Matthew Hooton has just stated on Radio NZ that if we sign up to the TPPA and decide it is not really a good fit, NZ only has to give six months notice and it can withdraw from the TPPA.

    Since the terms of the TPPA are secret and will remain so for years after signing them off, anyone else interested on what evidence does he base such a definitive statement?

    The deafening silence from the host of course, was expected. Can’t have journalists asking their guests to validate their statements can we.

    (snap ! good to know others heard it too)

    • freedom 11.1

      jump to 23:20

      He sounds very clear on his understanding of the facts, so he should have no trouble proving them

    • greywarshark 11.2

      I have looked up google on withdrawing from the TPPA and found this as one statement from Catherine Beard Executive Director Export NZ. from 16 Nov 2013.

      “Some say this agreement is going to sign away our sovereignty forever. Really? We suspect that TPP will, like all our agreements to date, contain a standard termination clause.

      The most recently signed agreement, with Taiwan, says the following: “This agreement shall remain in force until one party gives written notice of its intention to terminate it, in which case this agreement shall terminate 180 days after the date of this notice of termination.”

      How can an agreement that can be terminated bind us irreparably as some are suggesting?

      Others warn about the evils of compulsory investor state dispute settlement. We have had such clauses in FTAs and Bilateral Investment Treaties for years. Have we ever been sued?”

      Me: I know other countries have been sued. Are we not able to learn from others experience??
      By three methods we may learn wisdom:
      First, by reflection, which is noblest;
      Second, by imitation, which is easiest;
      and third by experience, which is the bitterest.

      • freedom 11.2.1

        I really wonder about apparently intelligent people who state
        because B says ‘x’ and F says ‘x’ that automatically means ‘y’ will be the same.

        Let’s compare the deal to a contemporary employment contract. Do people blindly assume the new contract will be the same as their last contract, (regardless of what area of the economy that last job might have been in) or do people want to read the new contract before agreeing to it?

  12. Rosie 12

    So, under the new H&S law, who looks out for this guy?


    “A Solid Energy spokesman said the company still had about five employees working at the site. The injured man was not a Solid Energy employee.”

    I’m guessing he was a contractor. Or if he was the owner, did he have the appropriate training to be undertaking such work?

    “The new owner had been on site organising the removal of the bathhouse, but it was unknown whether it was the owner who was injured or someone working for him.,”

    Nothing has changed. The dead, the grieving and the victims of workplace injury have been betrayed by Key’s broken promise.

  13. ianmac 13

    Serco: From John Palethorpe on Public Adress.
    “Only 10% of Serco’s fee is performance-related and penalties for failing to effectively manage the prison cannot exceed 10% quarterly or annually. So, for their $30,000,000 a year, are New Zealanders getting the effective service they deserve?”

    I guess that Serco has a pretty good deal going with relatively little to loose.

  14. maui 14

    Dmitry Orlov looking at the collapse of the US economy from a background of the collapse of the Soviet Union. (28 min video)

    “The Walmart (The Warehouse) model is basically how to go bankrupt when you can no longer go deeper into debt. That’s the Walmart model. You take everybody’s job, you offshore it, you flood the local market with imports and wait for everybody to go bankrupt so you can close the Walmart, and nothing’s left.”

    • Sable 14.1

      Very interesting take on things, focused on self sufficiency. We are currently looking at an organic glasshouse to cut down on nasty supermarket veg which will only become less edible and more expensive when GMO’s start kicking in with this TPPA nightmare.

      • maui 14.1.1

        Nice, would love to do something similar if I had the land. It’s very satisfying growing your own food and I think for a lot of people the best thing is knowing you’re getting it for free! I’m looking forward to the vegetable revolt in coming years, where everyone goes stuff this I’m growing my own or getting them from my neighbour.

    • greywarshark 14.2

      That Walmart model, that is a really good analogy of what the global oligarchs seem to be working on. What is it called in an actual war – scorched earth treatment? Or you could say is take what you want then poison the wells.

    • Sable 16.1

      More BS from the MSM. Better off staring at a blank wall……As for lions more tired old journo pussycats…..

    • maui 16.2

      Oh noes, perhaps du Fresne wants to try and get him struck off the International Consortium of Investigative Journalists then.

      From Karl:

      What journalists don’t do, in my experience, is set out to pursue causes, which is what Hager has done for nearly 20 years….

      Everything he does is calculated to challenge and undermine what we loosely call “the establishment”.

      And from the wikipedia definition:

      Investigative journalism is a form of journalism in which reporters deeply investigate a single topic of interest, such as serious crimes, political corruption, or corporate wrongdoing.

      Perhaps Hager should fire himself for doing his job too well.

      • ianmac 16.2.1

        How silly can Karl be? His definition of journalist wipes out most “journalists” in MSM. Including Karl. His column seems to be attempting to do a good job for your mates who currently run Government, by diminishing the standing of a highly regarded international journalist in Nicky. Shame on him.

  15. Rodel 17

    Jane Bowron’s column in today’s press is a scathing indictment of the government.
    The Serco debacle, Sky city’s latest cynical PR attempt, the so called ‘merciless’ Paul Henry and his sycophantic weekly chats with the Prime Minister and his campaign to bring back Judith Collins to replace the incompetent Sam Lottowhatever, reminding us that Collins brought us Serco in the first place and was also responsible for overcrowding in prisons causing an “escalation in violence”.
    Perhaps the best part is her summary:
    “It’s hard to find this Government actually doing much governing,
    outsourcing state responsibilities to the private sector in a bogus private and
    public job share.”
    Great to see a columnist/journo speaking out and telling it like it is.Fair,balanced and unafraid but I wonder if her contract will soon be under review.

    Certainly worth a read (page A7)

  16. Gosman 18

    I posted this above in relation to Venezuela but as it details exactly why leftists economic thinking leads to inevitable collapse I’ll do so again here.


    • Sable 18.1

      So if neo liberal economic theory is so good why is the US 18 trillion in debt, expected to blow out to 25 million? I don’t think you need go further than that.

      As to Venezuela the US has its panties in a knot because its color revolution model was not transferable from the Ukraine and now the government there is China’s biggest arms buyer and a military/economic partner. Worse still it had the cheek to tell the Yanks to sod off. Outrageous!

      • Gosman 18.1.1

        You forgot that the Venezuelan economy is currently collapsing.

        • Colonial Viper

          The capitalist class are working hard to disrupt and isolate Venezuela. The US has wanted Venezuela back in the grip of the financial elite since Chavez took over. They are willing to cause suffering to millions in order to get their profits.

        • Blue Horseshoe

          You forgot the US ecomony has already collapsed, Gossip

          Hey, I know. Tell us all again about those ‘lazy socialist Greeks’ who are ‘ getting what they deserve’

          Or you could just bugger off

    • Blue Horseshoe 18.2

      Come on then smarty pants enlighten the boards

      Tell us all what is required to get the planets financial death spiral levelled out

      Or at least let us know where your fetish originates from

      • greywarshark 18.2.1

        Who gets the smart pants award? There are more people than you who contribute to this blog Blue Horsesho.

    • Morrissey 18.3

      Your already low credibility is not in any way improved by your linking to such an addle-pated blog.

      I suspect you know next to nothing about the situation in Venezuela, and that you have not actually read anything. Fox News and the Murdoch press is no substitute for serious reading. I have counselled you on this several times, but you are still wasting our time by presenting idiotic fare like this Coppola woman’s moronic site.

      Why are you here instead of settling down with a whole lot of books?

      • Paul 18.3.1

        I doubt Gosman reads.
        Just watches FOX news and listens to ZB
        Sad how people can be so easily deluded.

    • Paul 18.4

      You are obsessed with Zimbabwe and Venezuela.
      How life been for ordinary people in Ukraine, Libya, Iraq, Indonesia, Guatemala and other countries since right wing fascists took over their country and imposed the neo- liberal market nightmare on those countries?

  17. Morrissey 19

    “So, y’know, but, uh, Matthew’s quite right…”
    Hooton walks all over a weak and vacillating Mike Williams, yet again

    Politics, Radio NZ National, Monday 27 July 2015, 11:08 AM
    Kathryn Ryan, Matthew Hooton, Mike Williams

    Surely—SURELY—there are better representatives of “the left” than Paul Holmes’s old classmate Mike “I agree with Matthew” Williams. A few years back, on this same program, Matthew Hooton was regularly shown up by the likes of Andrew Campbell, Laila Harré and Sue Bradford. Hooton is not at all articulate when he is confronted by a brighter person; the clear superiority of Campbell, Harré and Bradford meant that he was often left with no option other than withdrawing in to a sullen, resentful silence.

    Against an opponent less sharp, however, Hooton will run amok. He regularly got the better of the absurdly over-polite CTU economist Peter Harris, and he would do the same with Josie Pagani too, if she ever dared to do anything other than agree with every word he snarls out.

    Open mike 27/02/2012

    And that’s the problem with the former Labour Party president Mike Williams—a lack of fire, and an almost pathetic eagerness to find common ground with one of the most cynical National Party operatives in the country. Today, Williams actually bestirred himself on a couple of occasions to say something in contradiction to Hooton, but he was hopelessly diffident and pretty much ineffective.

    Here’s a brief rush transcript of the lowlights of today’s awful, awful show….

    MIKE WILLIAMS: … but I just can’t see a justification for private prisons.
    MATTHEW HOOTON: But that’s your ideological position.
    MIKE WILLIAMS: [in a desperate, put-upon tone] But it’s been proven to be CORRECT!

    In the absence of any more substantial comeback from Williams, Hooton now takes the opportunity to embark on a lengthy, wandery rant against the “ideological” Labour Party…..

    MATTHEW HOOTON: [speaking slowly and sententiously, so as to convey impression of deep thoughtfulness] … The opponents of this are ideological…. the profound hypocrisy of people who have this profound obsession with ownership of things.
    MIKE WILLIAMS: It’s the Minister of Corrections who I felt sorry for. I think he does a good job. ….[He bores on unconvincingly, accompanied by approving grunts from Hooton, who no doubt cannot believe how easy this is.]


    KATHRYN RYAN: This drive by Bill English to bring competition to areas where it is not necessarily there. Like gambling addiction services…
    MATTHEW HOOTON: ….the halfwits in the Labour Party. …. stupid policies. …. so half-witted that Labour is going nowhere in the polls.


    MIKE WILLIAMS: Matthew and I have both taken advantage of rising Auckland house prices in the last three months!
    MATTHEW HOOTON: [conspiratorially snickering] Heh heh!


    The last topic is the TPPA. Once again, it’s Hooton that does nearly all the talking….

    MATTHEW HOOTON: There’s one thing about all this, there’s a fundamental point that Jane Kelsey will never tell you is that a future government can always withdraw from the TPPA. …. The TPPA would put a stop to some things. For example, if a future government prepared to seize all houses owned by Chinese people—-

    KATHRYN RYAN: Oh, I don’t think ANYONE is proposing that.

    Mike Williams is silent as Hooton continues to make the most scurrilous and outlandish claims about Labour.

    KATHRYN RYAN: Labour’s in a difficult position, isn’t it. It doesn’t want to be left out of the TPPA, but its supporters oppose it.
    MIKE WILLIAMS: Yeah, I think it is. But Tim Groser’s pointed out that he’s not signing anything that leaves out dairy. So, y’know, but, uh, Matthew’s quite right, there ARE constraints on sovereignty. … The devil’s in the detail. Let’s see what is finally signed.
    KATHRYN RYAN: But that’s the irony—no one gets to see it. [snickers in plaintive resignation]
    MATTHEW HOOTON: Yeah but, y’know, there will be a debate before ratification. … I think that what we’re seeing with Labour is that there’s a faction within Labour that’s never reconciled themselves to the existence of free markets, they were not really happy with what happened after ’84. They don’t believe there should be markets, they think that they—
    MIKE WILLIAMS: Ha ha ha ha!
    MATTHEW HOOTON: They think they should be more strongly regulated.
    MIKE WILLIAMS: Can I say that—-
    MATTHEW HOOTON: And that criticism, that aversion to markets can’t be expressed publicly in New Zealand because it’s so SILLY.
    KATHRYN RYAN: Well, the aversion to UNFETTERED markets.
    MATTHEW HOOTON: So this debate occurs in a context within the Labour Party over free trade. But, um, this is simply what it’s all about. It’s whether people are comfortable with being in markets and whether they should be extended globally.
    MIKE WILLIAMS: Can I say this? I was president of the Labour Party for nearly a decade and campaign manager for twelve years. That faction that Matthew just talked about—-
    MATTHEW HOOTON: They were in the Alliance then!
    MIKE WILLIAMS: I have never MET them!
    KATHRYN RYAN: Ha ha ha!
    MIKE WILLIAMS: They’re not there! This is a — ha ha ha ha!
    KATHRYN RYAN: Righto!
    MIKE WILLIAMS:Right wing fantasy! Ha ha ha!
    KATHRYN RYAN: Right oh! Thanks both of you, as always! Mike Williams, Matthew Hooton, politics.

    • greywarshark 19.1

      Mike Williams did manage to make some good points in amongst the Hooton verbiage you know. Thanks Morrisey for the report which is as I remember it. Hooton was getting in his stride, and any National devotee would not have been persuaded by ANYTHING that Williams said. What he did say was enough to sink the hot air bubble.

      • Morrissey 19.1.1

        Fair comments, shark. I just wish Williams would make them more clearly and more frequently. Laila Harré always had Hooton on the back foot; Williams on the other hand seems much too nice.

      • ianmac 19.1.2

        I think Mike does a good job. Shouting back would not improve the dialog. And anyway what Matthew says is often worth listening to as it represents usually what the Right are thinking and that is valuable. Even if we disagree with him.

        • Morrissey

          I think Mike does a good job.

          I don’t think he does his job very well at all. He seems reluctant to get offside with Hooton, as if he has to keep in his good books. That’s no doubt the way a political party president operates—wheeling and dealing in favours—but it’s not the way a serious commentator behaves.

          Shouting back would not improve the dialog.

          He doesn’t need to shout—that’s what Hooton does whenever he gets contradicted. Williams only needs to speak clearly and demonstrate that he is not prepared to let Hooton get away with the outlandish statements he makes practically every time he comes on that show.

          And anyway what Matthew says is often worth listening to as it represents usually what the Right are thinking and that is valuable. Even if we disagree with him.

          The problem with Hooton is not whether his views are different to ours or not, it’s that he does not engage in serious or intelligent debate. He makes incendiary statements, as he did today, which Williams almost always lets him get away with. Hooton does not try to engage in intelligent debate any more than Michelle Boag does.

    • adam 19.2

      Mathew Hooton is the ideological lick-spittle on this issue.

      What a completely disingenuous argument from him.

      Matthew is an ideologue of the first order – and reading this, just proves he is just another one of the lying Tory brigands.

      You know Matthew when your in power you are suppose to work for all people, even if they voted against you. Sorry I forgot, you are not a fan of democracy.

      • Gosman 19.2.1

        How is he an ideologue on this issue? He hasn’t expressed any displeasure that the State is involved in running Prisons, in fact he didn’t see why Serco should be involved in a Remand prison. That hardly seems ideologically based.

      • Paul 19.2.2

        Hooton is a true disciple of the Randian cult.

    • Paul 19.3

      If you remember FOX news always had thei tame democrat. There was a guy called Colmes who was always alongside Swan Hannity; there to present a weak ineffective alternative to the rants of Hannity.

  18. greywarshark 20

    I was sorry to read that Simon Mercep has left RadioNZ. The figures for the afternoon show he hosted were up. He was a pleasant listen but I note that other media have been debating him for over a year. Maybe they are Jim Mora devotees. He seems to be extra to requirements, perhaps it is time for him to move, ‘Scary Mary’ is down since he joined. She doesn’t need him. One thing I did notice was that Simon sounded a bit like Mora, who was not a favourite of mine, bit oily.

    • Clemgeopin 20.1

      Who is the , ‘Scary Mary’ you speak of? What does she do?

      • greywarshark 20.1.1

        It is an accurate description of Mary Wilson’s interrogating style in the RadioNZ evening drivetime slot. She is hot and determined, also gets called a rotweiler. She’s an excellent interviewer and a must to listen – 5 to 7 pm on Checkpoint. Jim Mora has been put in there to dilute the power.

        I think there is a desire for dilution on the part of Radionz management, because so many people don’t want to listen to anything but candyfloss or little bouts of drama, tragedy, cuteness, bitchiness or camaraderie. The other morning Guyon and Susie were having a short disagreement as to who they considered the best James Bond actor. Uuugh.

        Further thoughts. Chit chat for people who live in lala land, looking forward to their next drink, consumer purchase, supply of soma (google meaning – the body as distinct from the mind, soul or psyche) also the name of the drug maintaining a feeling of wellbeing in book Brave New World – Aldous Huxley.
        “the warm, the richly coloured, the infinitely friendly world of soma-holiday. How kind, how good-looking, how delightfully amusing every one was! ”
        Interesting quotes to dip into from Brave New World.

        Margaret Atwood’s take on BNW:
        …Aldous Huxley’s Brave New World (1932), which proposed a different and softer form of totalitarianism – one of conformity achieved through engineered, bottle-grown babies and hypnotic persuasion rather than through brutality, of boundless consumption that keeps the wheels of production turning and of officially enforced promiscuity that does away with sexual frustration, of a pre-ordained caste system ranging from a highly intelligent managerial class to a subgroup of dim-witted serfs programmed to love their menial work, and of soma, a drug that confers instant bliss with no side effects.

        And read all that she says all of you who are brave enough to cope with a thorough laxative for your sluggish mind!

  19. McFlock 21

    moderators – I sent something to the TS gmail a few days ago. Any word on it?

  20. Atiawa 22

    Ray Smith the head of the NZ Corrections Department was told today by prison officers during his visit to Mt Eden that the main issue was a lack of staff doing the job.
    How else does Serco provide a cheaper service (and for profit) than the state, if not by having a higher prisoner to screw ratio?

  21. Bob 23

    This seems to be a pretty weak report, we have the second highest ownership of cars so we are somehow rich? Doesn’t matter if a high proportion of cars are 1980’s/90’s rust buckets, we own them so we are rich…
    Also, the Netherlands is a shithole, they can only afford bikes…

  22. Morrissey 24

    Clarke Gayford calls out braindead ACT leader live on air.
    Is there a minimum IQ for MPs in New Zealand?

    The Panel, Radio NZ National, Monday 27 July 2015
    Jim Mora, Chris Gallavin, Clarke Gayford

    In his Soapbox contribution after the 4:30 news, Clarke Gayford said how disturbed he was at finding plastic bags in the water near Great Barrier Island. This reminded him of the bizarre recent speech by National’s chained poodle David Seymour, who in parliament foolishly and without checking, cited a discredited Jamie Whyte-calibre “study” in order to bolster his crazy claim that banning plastic bags would lead to at least twenty deaths.


    Something did not sound quite right about that, said Gayford, so he did some checking on the original material that formed the basis of the speech by Epsom’s finest. It was, he discovered, utterly spurious. Click on the following link for a decisive refutation of those frivolous faux-academics…..


    Is there a minimum IQ for MPs in New Zealand? And if not, why not?


    Lord Sewel to be named as new ACT deputy leader….


  23. Draco T Bastard 25

    Jane Kelsey: Labour needs to stand firm on TPPA

    The best-case scenario by the US Department of Agriculture, assuming Japan, the US and Canada removed all their tariffs, is a 0.01per cent increase in New Zealand’s GDP by 2025. Hardly ‘meaningful’.

    And that’s only if we don’t get flooded by their over-production of dairy which is more likely.

    Labour need to wake up to the fact that the ideology that they bought into 30+ years ago is bunk and start looking at better options.

  24. Scintilla 26

    Thought I’d share this David Cameron rap my son found ….
    Tory Rap Artist

  25. Smilin 27

    The Serco debacle is obvious now, understaffing by the sound of the news reports to save money ,a blind eye to go with Key’s blind trust in private prisons
    How long can Key keep living in blind trust and giving his salary as PM to charity its like sitting on the fence so he cant be held nailed for what we all know but cant afford to prove because what he represents is too big to fail so he gets to stand there as proof that we cant afford to stop him thats his job just be the facilitator because there is nothing that we can hold him accountable for anything that will actually affect him or tie him to all the deals hes done behind closed doors
    His former boss in Merrill Lynch pulled Reagan’s strings for years One of the most ruthless ever , what name for a mortgagor,
    “In peril we’ll lynch you” should have been what they were called
    A bit of a conflict of interest you might say a bit like giving away the country’s sovereignty in the TPPA as now the crunch point is coming and Key has to put into practice all the secret terms of the agreements of the agreement privatising the govt in full
    Wont ban foreign buyers because of the existing free trade agreements especially with China
    Over a pork barrel in the politics you might think, this is what the power of the mighty do to NZ no matter which one they are
    Key should change his name to Mr Catalyst because that is what his wishy washy statements amount to
    The Aluminium smelter
    Mining and Oil deals
    Dirty Politics
    The Northland by election
    Auckland’s govt funding extending Ak to the Kaipara and south to the tron and west to the Tasman just to keep the main actors in the takeover of this country happy
    2 terms of it and wait theres more but I cant be bothered its just too taxing

  26. Kevin 28

    I know you lot are pretty pro-AGW. The latest New Scientist has an article on why people, even those who believe in AGW, are failing to act. It lists 33 reasons why (article assumes AGW is real and for present purposes this post assumes it is real as well).
    Here’s a summary.

    1. Ancient brain – we’re wired to act on the here and now not the sometime in the future.
    2. Ignorance.
    3. Environmental numbness – i.e. we’ve heard it so many times we’ve become numb to it.
    4. Uncertainty.
    5. Discounting – we undervalue future risks.
    6. Optimism bias.
    7. Perceived lack of behavioural control – we think our behaviour can do nothing.
    8. Confirmation bias.
    9. Time is money – people don’t act in environmentally positive ways when it’s their money they’re losing (gee who’d thunk it?).
    10. Perceived in ability.
    11. World views.
    12. Suprahuman powers – i.e. God will save us.
    13. Technosalvation – technology will save us and yep, I’m guilty.
    14. System justification – tendency to defend the status quo.
    15. Social comparison – my neighbour isn’t doing anything so why should I?
    16. Social norms and networks.
    17. Perceived inequity – i.e. why should I change if they won’t change?
    18. Financial investments.
    19. Habit.
    20. Conflicting goals, values and aspirations – Many people favour addressing the economic cost of climate change, as long as it doesn’t come out of their own pockets (see #9).
    21. Place attachment.
    22. Mistrust.
    23. Perceived programme inadequacy,
    24. Denial.
    25. Reactance – the tendency to struggle against whatever appears to threaten one’s freedom.
    26. Functional risk.
    27. Physical risk,
    28. Financial risk.
    29. Social risk.
    30. Psychological risk
    31. Temporal risk
    32. Tokenism.
    33. The rebound effect – Often, after some positive change is made, the gains are diminished or erased by subsequent actions.

    So, if you believe in AGW and believe we have to act now, yet you still drive a car when you can take a bus, and aren’t willing to eat less meat, it might be because of one of the reasons listed above.

  27. Tricledrown 29

    The free markets Mathew Hooton talks about are a myth.
    Tim Grosser is hang on to his spin that he won’t sign up unless Dairy is included (production costs in the US are much lower ).
    Other forms of agricultural exports will not be included because it will cause depopulation in Republican voter heartland where representation has been gerrymandered to keep the Republicans in charge.
    Tim Grosser is not giving us the completed picture .
    Double Dealing the public like he thinks the public are”Dopey”and can trust an druggie.
    The TPPA needs to be given the light of day and the public fully informed.
    We don’t need some shonKey deal done behind closed doors.
    We need a proper fully open and democratic debate what have they got to hide .

  28. Penny Bright 30

    Gosh – since John Key has been Prime Minister of New Zealand – haven’t the banks and traders done well?

    We now have a derivatives market for dairying and electricity.

    We now have the Auckland ‘Supercity’ – which because of its size – can now, as I understand it – borrow overseas currency
    off shore.

    We have this ‘white hot’ Auckland property market – which is marvellous for the speculators. land bankers, real estate agents, foreign investors, money-launderers and banks.

    Sky City, in my opinion, have been able to effectively set up a money-laundering factory in the heart of Auckland City, given the failure of OFCANZ, PM John Key, Minister Steven Joyce, Auckland Council and Auckland Central Police to carry out any ‘due diligence’ on the increased risk of money-laundering arising from the NZ International Convention Centre Act.

    A number of dairy farmers are now in hock to the banks – especially given the dramatic fall in the price of milk fat solids.

    As I understand it – NZ debt is now over $100 billion, and as of 2012, exposure to derivatives was $112 billion?

    And Prime Minister John Key is still a shareholder in the Bank of America – still arguably working for foreign banks and currency traders?

    Advocating for the Trans-Pacific Partnership Agreement (TPPA) – from which he can arguably personally profit?

    Follow the dollar …..?


    Penny Bright

    • Smilin 30.1

      Its the ultimate tool of divide and rule
      Break a dollar into as many unrecognisable pieces as possible
      Its easier to reassemble it a form that fits your values so that the old value no longer is recognisable
      Thats John Key

  29. The Chairman 31

    Just went to view Sunday on demand (to catch the China buying up Australia story everyone is talking about) only to find that segment of the show isn’t there

    • Smilin 31.1

      As you would expect from aussies on the front line but for us in this little principality and sadly with those who say its happenin here we are actually in the final stages of the annexing of this nation to an unidentifiable ruler of many parts and our history lessons will be worthless and our sovereignty gone and 90 mile beach will be an oil slick along with the pollution of our harbours fisheries rivers aquifers air soil you name it
      Why simply because we dont talk enough about it because our universities are turning out manufacturers of the financial propaganda and subverters of free thought and power to question FUCKIN FASCISTS LIKE OUR PM AND LORD HAW HAW the latest version

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