Open mike 27/10/2014

Written By: - Date published: 7:00 am, October 27th, 2014 - 137 comments
Categories: open mike - Tags:

samuel-parnellOpen mike is your post.

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Step up to the mike …

137 comments on “Open mike 27/10/2014 ”

  1. this link is about what a basket-case the scottish labour party is..

    ..and it could well have been written about the new zealand labour party..

    ..read it..and hear the echoes here..

    http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/oct/25/leaderless-scottish-labour-party-bereft-of-ideas

  2. Clemgeopin 2

    8 hours for Work
    8 hours for sleep
    8 hours for self/family/friends.

    Now, that is fair, healthy and makes one’s short life on Earth worth it.

    • Draco T Bastard 2.1

      Did you ever notice that, even with the 8 hour day, a couple of unpaid hours was set aside for getting to and from work?

      • b waghorn 2.1.1

        I used do up to 3 hours travel a day in the forest unpaid . shed hands in the shearing game can be leaving home at 5 am and getting home after 6 pm for 8 hours pay

        • Y’all may be interested in this German case:
          http://www.theguardian.com/world/2010/jul/14/german-police-officer-pay-uniform

          … where an officer successfully argued that, because he had to be fully uniformed and equipped at the start of his shift, he was essentially giving unpaid time to his employer.

          • mac1 2.1.1.1.1

            When I work as a santa as I will in the two months coming up, I get a half hour paid per shift for changing into and out of the gear. Fair call by my employer, too.

        • Draco T Bastard 2.1.1.2

          I have this belief that if you changed it so that businesses paid for travel time at the full hourly rate you’d soon see two or three things happening:

          1. Zero hours contracts would disappear
          2. Businesses would start demanding higher density cities and
          3. People who have been land banking would start crying as they watched all their unearned profits disappear

          And businesses should be paying for travel time as when you’re traveling to work you’re not doing something else. In other words, ATM, workers lose their time and get nothing for it.

          ATM, shed hands and other farm workers are paid on salary. It’s why the government had to change the laws regarding the calculation of minimum wage because the farmers were consistently breaking the previous laws by paying SFA while having the workers working 60+ hours per week.

    • Clemgeopin 2.2

      Further to my above post,

      I also think

      * That the lunch break of half an hour should be a paid break.
      * Travel time to and from work should have a payment for at least half an hour.
      * All workers should have a certain share/bonus in the profits over and above their normal pay.
      * Business that work more than 8 hours or 24/7, must have different shifts, employ more people and have restricted overtime safeguards.
      * Employers that say they can not manage, should leave, start a different business or become employees. The vacuum will soon get filled by other employers that can.

      * Uncontrolled free market fueled with unfairness and greed is the biggest real problem of this modern world in which the income and wealth gaps are fast increasing. That needs to urgently change with fair and strict controls enforced.

      The government, the employers, and all of us should realise that
      * We work to live and not live to work.
      * We are all fellow humans and should look after each other better.

  3. i make the case that the oft-posited grand-coalition between national and labour..

    ..is already both our reality..and one of our biggest problems..

    http://whoar.co.nz/2014/commentwhoar-a-grand-coalition-between-national-and-labour-we-are-already-there/

    • tc 3.1

      If gough, savage and even lange were alive today would they be welcome in the labour party as it stands……..imo no they would align with the greens.

      • phillip ure 3.1.1

        ..or even more likely..with the (still) nascent mana movement..?

        ..mana and early labour are ideological-twins..

        ..and also walk a similar path..

        ..in the united vilifications/ganging-up-on/demonising from the media/political-establishment of the day..

        ..who see/saw them both as a challenge to the status quo..

        ..as indeed they were/are..

        ..and clearly what we needed/need..both then and now..

        • Draco T Bastard 3.1.1.1

          /agreed

          The present Labour caucus would be doing their best to prevent some of their greatest leaders from gaining power if they were in parliament today.

          • bearded rawshark 3.1.1.1.1

            Hearing Jim Anderton on Nat Rad recently reminded me of how an eloquent and committed left wing caucus member should be able to communicate

            • Murray Rawshark 3.1.1.1.1.1

              If he hadn’t been quite so authoritarian, the Alliance may have gone much further than it did. Shame about that.

            • Rodel 3.1.1.1.1.2

              beardedrawshark- Jim has I believe the answer to Labour’s woes- always has had the answer but they wouldn’t and still don’t listen.

              And yes I think Murray Rawshark has a valid point.
              For Labour he’s Mr Right ..but his first name is ‘Always’.

  4. “..Turning Public Housing Over to Private Developers Has Unfortunate Consequences..

    ..In cities like Baltimore – the housing crisis is being outsourced to private developers.

    The results aren’t pretty..”

    (cont..)

    (ed:..and this is all about to happen here..

    ..as the new minister for selling off our public housing..

    ..bill english..

    ..has said he will ‘sell to anyone’..)

    http://www.alternet.org/hard-times-usa/turning-public-housing-over-private-developers-has-unfortunate-consequences

    • Draco T Bastard 4.1

      More and more ‘free-market’ always seems to result in more and more deprivation for the many while a few have far more than what they know what to do with.

  5. Peter 5

    We have the ANZ truckometer to tell us how much GDP we are producing http://www.anz.co.nz/about-us/economic-markets-research/truckometer/

    We should also measure the number of vehicles that pull up on a street to sift through domestic rubbish thrown out for local council inorganic collections as a measure of poverty and inequality. This weekends numbers have been astonishing in our neighbourhood , well up on previous years. People scavenging for anything of use or able to be sold – metal and electronics are favoured.

    The saddest sight – a scavenger pulling up at two in the morning ( yes, in the middle of the night) going through the paltry leftover rubbish with the aid of a torch. I guess we now have NZ the way some people want it!

    • karol 5.1

      Meanwhile ANZ workers are striking against the ANZ banks moves to further casualise its workforce.

      • Skinny 5.1.1

        These Banks are scum, near record profit margins. However never content they try squeeze out more profits by dealing a dirty number on staff. I will be putting on the table some action at our regional Union monthly meeting against our local ANZ Bank. Hand out flyers and signing a petition to their customers.

        • RedBaronCV 5.1.1.1

          What can customers do to help? Who wants to deal with a bank that treats its staff like this. yes one can shift but isn’t it better to fight?

    • Murray Rawshark 5.2

      There must be an inorganic collection soon over here in Brisbane. I’ve been hobbling past pieces of usable crap left all over the footpath. It’s been there for days now. I saw one ute take some stuff yesterday, but nothing during the week.

      • karol 5.2.1

        Here in Auckland, some neighbours have been told to put stuff out on the kerbside ahead of requesting an inorganic collection – then anything that isn’t taken, to call the council to collect.

  6. just saying 6

    http://youtu.be/1lnWNg3Pax8

    For a smile and in honour of Labour Day – Bill Bailey and Billy Bragg sing “Unisex Chipshop”

    (There’s a long lead-in, if you want to avoid it go to about 2.00)

    • GregJ 6.1

      Much as I love Bill Bailey’s loving & humorous tribute to Billy Bragg perhaps this might be more appropriate:

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DwbzxemJZIc

      • GregJ 6.1.1

        And the lyrics still so relevant today:

        There is power in a factory, power in the land
        Power in the hands of a worker
        But it all amounts to nothing if together we don’t stand
        There is power in a union

        Now the lessons of the past were all learned with workers blood
        The mistakes of the bosses we must pay for
        From the cities and the farmlands to trenches full of mud
        War has always been the bosses way, sir

        The union forever defending our rights
        Down with the blackleg, all workers unite
        With our brothers and our sisters from many far off lands
        There is power in a union

        Now I long for the morning that they realize
        Brutality and unjust laws can not defeat us
        But who’ll defend the workers, who cannot organize
        When the bosses send their lackies out to cheat us?

        Money speaks for money, the devil for his own
        Who comes to speak for the skin and the bone
        What a comfort to the widow, a light to the child
        There is power in a union

        The union forever defending our rights
        Down with the blackleg, all workers unite
        With our brothers and our sisters, together we will stand
        There is power in a union

        • just saying 6.1.1.1

          My first choice was “Which side are You On?” but somehow it just seemed depressing, what with how much worse things are since way back when”Back to Basics” first came out. So I went for a laugh instead.
          This song seems a better fit today: “Still waiting for the Great Leap Forward”

          http://youtu.be/nZaYEniPaJg

          If no one seems to understand
          Start your own revolution, cut out the middleman
          In a perfect world we’d all sing in tune
          But this is reality so give me some room
          So join the struggle while you may
          The Revolution is just a t-shirt away
          Waiting for the great Leap forwards

  7. BM 7

    Hmmm, this is a very bad look.
    Be interested to know the reason behind all the travel.

    Having not received responses to requests for comment from either co-leader, or the Green Party I decided to go ahead and publish this article.
    The naughty little piggy with his snout firmly in the trough is number 14 on the list, and is none other than Mr Steffan Browning.
    Since he joined parliament Browning appears to have done bugger all for the community. This aside, it is his travel habits that raised my eyebrow.
    In the period from 1 October 2013 through 30 September 2014 Mr Browning has spent a grand total of $166,369 on surface and air travel courtesy of the good ole taxpayer.

    http://slightlyleftofcentre.co.nz/2014/10/26/green-snout-in-the-trough/

    • isn’t yr blog a total lie in its’ title..?

      ..you aren’t slightly left of centre..

      ..going on yr comments here..you are a far-right-nutjob..

      • BM 7.1.1

        I don’t have a blog.

        Anyway what do you think of Mr Browning and his travel expenses, they do seem rather excessive.

        Also, bit concerning that the greens don’t seem to give a damn about Brownings enthusiasm for spending taxpayer dime and the amount pollution he’s generating.

        • Molly 7.1.1.1

          The question is: are you concerned about the amount of pollution air travel generates?

          Else, you are raising an issue you don’t really think is an issue.

          • BM 7.1.1.1.1

            The main issue for me is what looks like a very excessive amount of travel at taxpayer cost for a very low level list MP.

            I raised the point about pollution because the greens are so pious about fossil fuel usage, yet here’s one of their MPs going at it like a robbers dog and the greens don’t seem to be remotely interested in whats going on.

            Does strike me as unbelievably hypocritical.

            • karol 7.1.1.1.1.1

              The post says air and surface travel. So, Browning could be using relatively low polluting forms of travel for all we know.

              And the claims that Browning has done nothing while in parliament are off target.

              A check on the GP website shows this:

              In Parliament, Steffan continues to promote good agriculture and food safety. He has scrutinised the Food Bill, making sure it has kept to its spirit of introducing much-needed safeguards and better food information. He has led calls to label GE food. He is also the voice of reason in the House when security and intelligence matters are on the agenda.

              And there are quite a few MSM articles online quoting statements from Browning: eg on security/intelligence matters.

              “Key: Green MP needs to pull his head in”

              Prime Minister John Key has hit back at Opposition claims over his relationship with spy boss Ian Fletcher.
              […]
              Green MP Steffan Browning says the links are deeper than Key has admitted, levelling accusations of “nepotism”.

              And Browning has spoken at public meetings about the government’s surveillance legislation.

              And he has been active in discussions about and critiques of food safety, eg re-agriculture.

              That post just sounds like another Slater-Nat Dirty Politics hit.

              • Chooky

                +100 Karol…..”another Slater-Nat Dirty Politics hit”.

                Steffan Browning is probably one of the most hard working MPs…and also extremely honest

                …he has a huge South Island land mass Kaikoura Electorate ( Marlborough to almost Christchurch)

                …. and his portfolios concerning the health and sustainability of NZ agriculture , soils , illegitimate and dangerous pesticides , food safety, organics, bees, concern the the whole land mass of New Zealand

                • mac1

                  BM, I call BS on your figures for Steffan Browning’s expenditure for the twelve month period of $166, 369 1/10/2013-30/9.14.

                  I have compared two parliamentarians from the same Kaikoura electorate, Colin King and Steffan Browning. The figures are easily obtainable in four separate tables, easily googled, at http://www.parliament.nz under MP’s expenses.

                  The actual expenditure by Browning on travel for that period was $62, 254, which is a clear exaggeration by over $100,000.

                  King by contrast spent $56178 on travel. There is a difference of $6000 over the year.
                  King had no real spokesman role for the Government, whereas Browning did have a role for the Greens as a spokesperson.

                  Slightlyleftofcentre was out of the ballpark with his/her calculations. Again, I say Bullshit to your claims.

                  • Tracey

                    goodness gracious bm posted something that was wrong???!?

                    never!?!

                    • mac1

                      It’s good to pin the fellow on an actual factual inaccuracy. Very difficult to squirm away from.

                      Once his factual credibility has taken a major hit, all of his opinions seem somehow……….. worthless.

                      As for the credibility of the blog slightlyleftofcentre- one could almost imagine the hand of dirty politics being played again.

                    • karol

                      sleightlyleftofcentre

                      FIFY

                  • Chooky

                    +100 mac1….that has put the stake through BM’s spurious claims

                    (….and imo a contemptible and slanderous attack on a very hard working and honest Green MP)

                  • alwyn

                    There aren’t ” two parliamentarians from the same Kaikoura electorate”
                    There is only a single electorate MP and it isn’t Browning.
                    He is a LIST MP who simply pretends to have an “electorate”.
                    He should, like all the list MPs move to live in Wellington and he wouldn’t need to spend a lot of taxpayer’s money on going backwards and forwards to his “electorate” and also claiming for accommodation in Wellington during the week.
                    The worst of the troughers, pretending they need to live somewhere other than Wellington are the multiple Green MPs who choose to live on Waiheke Island. Denise Roche and Kennedy Graham both live there. Are there any others?
                    Just what do they do in “their electorate”?

                    • karol

                      You have a very odd idea of the role of list MPs. It’s a good idea for Green MPs to be located around the country.

                      If they spent all their time in Wellington, they would be well and truly out of touch with what is happening in communities around NZ.

                      The Greens have located more of their MPs in Auckland in recent years, because they tended to get criticism for not having a presence in Auckland.

                      I understand housing on Waiheke Island has been relatively cheap in recent years compared with the rest of Auckland. I guess the idea of needing to use public transport to get anywhere doesn’t appeal to a lot of people.

                      The Green MPs need to attend various places relevant to their spokesperson responsibilities. eg: Julie Anne Genter spends quite a bit of time around NZ, but very often in Auckland. She uses bikes and public transport to get from place to place. She regularly tweets her experiences of such, highlighting when they are being well used, needs for improvements, etc.

                    • Chooky

                      @ alwyn ….Browning’s spokeperson portfolio responsibilites for the Greens mean he has to be on the ground…it is absolutely ridiculous to suggest he be isolated and based in beltway Wellington

                      Brownings spokesperson portfolios : the health and sustainability of NZ agriculture , soils , illegitimate and dangerous pesticides , food safety, organics, bees…relate to the whole land mass of New Zealand….It is important he observes for himself, consults with experts in the universities and ag industries … has his ears to the ground and he forges grassroots links with and knows well those who work in these areas …he has quite a few agriculture/horticulture/ viticulture supporters

                      Green MPs are activists for the environment and the health and social wellbeing of New Zealanders ….not token careerist politician troughers…or mere representatives for the money making exploiters of the environment

                    • mac1

                      Alwyn, you should know that Steffan Browning did contest the Kaikoura electorate last election and before. He gained the third highest vote count. If he lived in Wellington all the time and went to Kaikoura for elections he would be called a carpet bagger, by some.

                      The attack column in slightlyleftofcentre snarked at Browning for having been born in Clyde. Browning went to school in Marlborough as a boy and affiliates to that area where his parents and siblings live/d for years.

                    • Chooky

                      Browning was also a very successful organic horticulturist with his own business in Marlborough for years….he is an expert in his area with a very wide network of supporters…from viticulturists to beekeepers to environmentalists

                      the attacks on him are contemptible

                    • Tracey

                      what do you think of the comments and conclusions of bm and the author he linked to which seem contrary to the facts?

                  • mac1

                    I’ve been on the slightlyleftofcentre blog and finally got out of their ‘professor mayhem’ an admission that he had got the figures wrong by adding in accommodation to the travel figures and then getting the time period wrong by claiming figures for one year when they actually apply to two years.

                    As for the use of these figures to attack Browning- readers can make up their own mind. I’m comfortable with Browning’s expenditure. People who think that politicians are ‘troughing’ by spending money on travel on public business have a strange idea as to what pleasure is. Sitting around airports, travelling endlessly, away from home, away from one’s own bed, partner, friends and familiar places is not how I wish to spend my time- except as a tourist.

              • Tracey

                BM doesnt actually read his links before he posts them…

            • Tracey 7.1.1.1.1.2

              no, the main issue is the insane glee with which you regurgitate other peoples smears without an ounce of critical thinking… not once, not twice but over and over.

              presumably, therefore, it is intentional. this starts to put you on shakey ground defamation wise.

        • phillip ure 7.1.1.2

          if you don’t have a blog..

          ..use bloody speech-marks..!

          ..and stop claiming others’ writings as yr own..

          ..and yes..it is a curiousity as to how/why browning wracked up that travel-bill..

          ..and i am sure you must be apoplectic about the dweeb from act sucking up three quarters of a mill. out of the trough each/every year..

          ..in his role as politician-on-a-stick for key/national..

          ..and unable-to-be-questioned under-secretary of whatever-the-fuck..eh..?

          ..that one must have you running head-first into walls..eh..?

          • BM 7.1.1.2.1

            Christ, Phil I thought you stoners were supposed to be mellow individuals?

            Anyway, Do you not see the large light grey symbol to the left of the text.

            It’s a blockquote symbol.

            • phillip ure 7.1.1.2.1.1

              u edited that in after i commented..there were no speechmarks..as you well know..

              ..and i’m mellow..just focused with it…

              ..and you didn’t answer the dweeb-troughing-question..

              • and when the dweeb appeared on seven days..

                ..he was thanked ‘for coming out on a school-nite’..

                ..(it made me laugh..)

              • The Al1en

                “u edited that in after i commented..there were no speechmarks..as you well know..”

                BM 27 October 2014 at 8:56 am

                pu 27 October 2014 at 9:07 am

                With only ten minutes editing time available, I don’t think that claim is truthful let alone possible with those numbers. 🙄

      • karol 7.1.2

        That blog sounds like it’s written by Cameron Slater.

        • cricklewood 7.1.2.1

          Probably was… the blog did feature front and centre on whaleoil… something about respectful moderate lefties, that he would help him get started…
          Could it be a trojan horse as it were? A new way to seed anti left stories that wouldn’t be touched if they were on whaleoil? But if they appear on a “left” blog msm have a free pass to get stuck in?
          Two track dirty politics?

          • karol 7.1.2.1.1

            Probably was… the blog did feature front and centre on whaleoil… something about respectful moderate lefties, that he would help him get started…

            Oh, very interesting. So probably is written by Slater or one of the WO ghosties.

          • RedBaronCV 7.1.2.1.2

            Most likely. It has all the classic signs doesn’t it – name at odds with content. Being brought to our attention by a known RWinger??
            I’m sure the NZ herald will find out who is behind this.

            Now do we need a blog labelled slighty right of centre – hasn’t John Key made a mess – getting exposed in dirty politics. Now all those centrist ethical nats are upset. time to look for a change of leader to one who desn’t make simple mistakes – yadayada yada.

          • Draco T Bastard 7.1.2.1.3

            Could it be a trojan horse as it were?

            Certainly sounds like it.

            • mac1 7.1.2.1.3.1

              I had a go at professor mayhem on the slightlyleftofcentre blog for some inaccuracy. I was hard on him but he eventually apologised for the mistake and the name-calling, which is not the natural behaviour of a right wing practitioner of the dirty arts.

              I’d give him a second chance. At least he knows that people won’t accept his figures at face value and will challenge him.

          • millsy 7.1.2.1.4

            The SLoC owner said that he enlisted WO’s help to set the blog up…probably cost him a fair bit..

        • boldsirbrian 7.1.2.2

          @ karol (7.1.2)

          That blog sounds like it’s written by Cameron Slater.

          Style is really hard to hide.
          What gives Slater away is all the talk about pigs and troughs.
          It’s a recurring theme, as bad as his friend John Key’s overused “at the end of the day”

    • Murray Rawshark 7.3

      So what? You worry about your guys. And the name of that blog isn’t very accurate at all.

  8. millsy 8

    I tried to comment on that blog but what I said never made it out of moderation.

  9. Marksman33 10

    Hi all, I rejoined the Labour Party a few weeks ago, and have received my membership card and a few emails from Barnett. Should I have received my voting papers by now ? I joined electronically so should I be waiting for that to come through on my emails or expect through the post.Thought I’d ask here before hassling them. Thanks in advance, Happy Labour Day to all.

    • Hami Shearlie 10.1

      I received my voting details by email, Marksman 33 – hope you get yours too!

    • Anne 10.2

      I read somewhere that the upsurge in new members has caused delays in the processing of the electronic ballot papers. I think you will find they will arrive in due course. Voting closes Nov 18th so still plenty of time.

      • Tracey 10.2.1

        how many right wingers joining to vote? i mean if you do the stuff of dirty politics why not buy a vote as to who the opposition chooses to lead them?!?

        • Clemgeopin 10.2.1.1

          I agree. It should be open to only those that have been members for at least one year. That way, we would have more of the genuine members electing their leader. Also, a provision (though unenforceable, apart from the moral/ethical imperative) should be included that one can not be a member simultaneously of more than one political party.
          If any one joins a party just to skew the result with evil intentions, such individuals are just scum, in my opinion. I wonder if any of the RW people have deliberately joined the party with such intentions.

        • Rodel 10.2.1.2

          Tracey- I think a lot like me made sure our membership was renewed so we could genuinely vote for Cunliffe but his character assassination and demise has
          left us wondering what to do now.

  10. wekarawshark 11

    NZ’s per capita carbon footprint is twice that of China’s. If we want to mitigate the worst of AGW we need to make changes in our own lives.

  11. KJS0ne 12

    Its fascinating the way National have convinced SMEs that they belong to the petite bourgeoisie, and that all they need do to succeed and graduate to the haute bourgeoisie is to reflect its values and vote National, even when to the dispassionate observer they would be better off under a centre left government, that has historically given much more of a shit about them. Under National the trend has been towards imperfect oligopolys. Where does that leave the SMEs that are successful enough to attract the eye of the oligarchs but not successful enough to challenge their dominion? Be absorbed, or be crushed.

    • RedBaronCV 12.1

      Yes – most don’t seem to realise that they need people outside their door with money – upper end tax cuts aren’t going to be spent in the dairy at Motueka.

  12. Tsubasa 13

    Election results in Brazil: Dilma’s PT is back for another round.

    Please, do not claim this as a victory for the global “Left”, because the self-proclaimed workers’ party is anything but Left.

    In fact, this election was not a battle between a Left candidate and a Center candidate. Unfortunately, we cannot frame political debate in Brazil (and in much of Latin America) the same way we frame it here. There is, really, no Right, Left or Center. The latest debates between the presidential candidates confirmed that; they revolved around allegations of corruption.

    The race in Brazil was one where people got to determine who they thought was the least corrupt political party. Dilma won, but the people of Brazil didn’t, and the outcome would have been the same (perhaps with a little less corruption in the equation) had Aecio Neves won.

    • millsy 13.1

      And it also looks like the pro-EU oligarchs have defeated the pro-Putin oligarchs in Ukraine…

    • Murray Rawshark 13.2

      Less corruption with Aécio? What a load of shit. Tell us about the airports he built for his family. Tell us about the money sucked out of São Paulo by his stinking party. Tell us about Aécio driving drunk without a licence, and the helicopter with half a ton of cocaine.

      With Dilma, the public universities will continue to function and the poorest will have food in their shacks, as well as water. With Aécio’s party, not even the vile rich of São Paulo have water.

      Vai tomar no cu e pare de mentir, seu coxinha de merda.

  13. Tracey 14

    good news report

    the threat from isis, al queda, taleban and any other terror in nz was very very low yesterday. the primeminister ate dinner at a public restaurant without any of his guards… no pre dinner sweep of the restaurant and no guards anywhere, inside or out.

    of course he may have been dining in his personal capacity as john key, rather than PM. the terrorists probably respect that distinction.

  14. Barfly 15

    new pet peeve of mine “aspirational”…first noticed it from David Shearer when he was doing his stab stab stab on David Cunliffe . Then saw it with depressingly high frequency from the leadership candidates apart from Andrew Little….well that’s the first box ticked now what order for the other 3?

    • Clemgeopin 15.1

      I am yet to vote, but tossing between

      M, L, P, R
      M, P, L, R
      M, L, R, P

      Decisions, decisions!

      What do you guys think?

      • Chooky 15.1.1

        …my advice (lol…from a $5 Labour member )

        M and L first and second ….and then it doesnt matter

        (imo …this is the way to vote if Labour wants to maximise its vote next Election and remain a viable Party…. if Labour does not want to do this…then the votes will go to Greens and Mana/Int ….and some to NZF and Nactional)

        • phillip ure 15.1.1.1

          little is the best chance labour have of not slipping down into the teens..

          ..in the polls..

          ..there are no surprises in/with parker/robertson..

          ..and either of them elected will see a collective shrug of the shoulders..

          ..and that teens-poll-dip…

      • phillip ure 15.1.2

        l – m – r – p..

        (as in ‘limrip’..as in ..’i’m voting for limrip!’..

        ..catchy..eh..?..)

      • The Al1en 15.1.3

        With your form… probably mip.

  15. wekarawshark 16

    I found this enlightening. Caucus numbers on the leadership, according to the Herald,

    Andrew Little 6: Andrew Little, David Cunliffe, Iain Lees Galloway, Sue Moroney, Carmel Sepuloni, Poto Williams

    Nanaia Mahuta 6: Nanaia Mahuta, Peeni Henare, Adrian Rurawhe, Su’a William Sio, Louisa Wall, Meka Whaitiri

    David Parker 9: David Parker, Clayton Cosgrove, Kelvin Davis, Stuart Nash, Damien O’Connor, Jenny Salesa, David Shearer, Rino Tirakatene, Phil Twyford

    Grant Robertson 11: Grant Robertson, Jacinda Ardern, David Clark, Clare Curran, Ruth Dyson, Kris Faafoi, Phil Goff, Chris Hipkins, Annette King, Trevor Mallard, Megan Woods

    (Caucus votes will account for 40 per cent of the vote; ordinary membership 40 per cent; and 20 per cent from seven affiliated unions, allocated according to size.)

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11348896

    • Chooky 16.1

      +100 weka…interesting!

      ..( given that list..if you can believe the Herald…. i would also be happy with Little as leader…but I think Mahuta would have wide flaxroots voter appeal as Leader in a General Election…and she would be less able to be attacked by Nact without seeming sexist and racist)

      …so what are your picks?

      • phillip ure 16.1.1

        have you been hitting the cooking-sherry..?

        ..mahuta has been in parliament for a long time..and has spectacularly under-performed..

        ..her candidacy is a point for maori/p.i mp’s to coalesce around..

        ..and you’d think all of their 2nd preferences wd go for little..

        ..as they must already know the neo-lib parker/robertson will just continue to do s.f.a. for poor maori/p.i…

        ..(and they don’t want shearer climbing all over their roofs..with his obsessional benny-hunting..)

        ..with little at least they may have some hope..

        ..and i am looking forward to seeing what the likes of sepuloni and wall will do in the future..

        ..but mahuta has had more than enough time to show what she has to offer..

        ..and it hasn’t been a lot..

        ..and in the yrs i have been doing commentaries on q-time..

        ..i can’t remember her ever holding a minister to account..

        • Chooky 16.1.1.1

          Pu…i wasn’t talking to you …i was talking to weka…(i dont want your opinion)

          and as for cooking sherry …that is Puckish Rogue’s drink…actually where is he?!

          • phillip ure 16.1.1.1.1

            and i wasn’t talking to you..

            (you are too prone to slipping into ad homs..at the buzz of a dying/stood-on bee..as it were..)

            ..i was just pointing out to others the outright silliness of yr claims about mahuta/this race..

            • Chooky 16.1.1.1.1.1

              pu..re “ad homs”…actually i think the particular illustrates the universal ….and metaphors speak of deeper non verbal, non-rational truths…(put that in yah puffer…and go puff on that !)
              …btw bees love puffers and smoke too …it blisses them out ….are you sure you are not a giant beady eyed drone yerself?

              • and if you were talking to a jewish person wd you gloat/describe-in-detail how you eat pigs/pork..?

                ..if not..where the fuck do you get off thinking it is in any way civilised behaviour ..

                ..to work yr irrational-anger out at me that way..?

                ..think about it..!

                • Chooky

                  @ pu…are you a Jewish person?….and have I gloated about eating pigs?…I dont think so!…people here do jest with you about your FANATICISM about being a Vegan!

                  ….”irrational anger “?… it is all yours!…( Helen Clark , Mahuta?)

                  ..and I am beginning to wonder if your Veganism and YOUR Anger is a cover for something else

                • The Al1en

                  “and if you were talking to a jewish person wd you gloat/describe-in-detail how you eat pigs/pork..?”

                  Taking the elevation of veganautism to equal status as judaism, with it’s origins dating back nearly four thousand years with a hefty pinch of salt, why wouldn’t someone not tell a jew how much they’re missing out on re: A bacon sarnie? Adults should be able talk about any single thing.
                  Respecting someone’s beliefs goes way beyond the superficial.

                  I believe, and it is just a gut feeling, you’re using jews as a stick to beat Chooky with. If correct, that’s a bit low, you should set your bottom line a little higher.

                  As for “..if not..where the fuck do you get off thinking it is in any way civilised behaviour ….to work yr irrational-anger out at me that way..?”

                  Given your record and modus operandi, that’s an interesting statement.

                  • Chooky

                    @ The Allen

                    Thanks for your support!…and think of me next time you have a lovely English pork pie!…i will do the same when I eat one…in fact I may go and hunt one out sooner rather than later

                    I will think of you next time I eat ‘pork and puha’ with the Maori

                    http://whanaushow.co.nz/index.php/main-dishes/pork-a-puha

                    …pork is a New Zealand national dish afterall ( and we shouldnt be forced to feel guilty or unclean about it…by the likes of pu)

                    ….Here is a wee song for you….not I hasten to add that i wish it to be you who ends up in the pot ….I can think of better candidates for this

                    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DgbPwbsE0oM

                    I fail to see why people like pu think they are morally superior to people who eat meat and in particular pork….after-all Hitler was a vegetarian or claimed he was..he felt it made him superior or it was evidence of his superiority

                    ….and often those races that harken back to the Old Testament or their old texts of thousands of years ago as evidence of their superiority ….and eschew and prohibit pork and pigs as unclean…. have a very twisted attitude towards women!….they are also the righteous warmongers of our time

                    ( must go and read my Richard Dawkins ‘The God Delusion’ book again!…my prayer …”dear female pagan God of Gaia / Papatuanuku free us and preserve us from those males who by virtue of their perceived genetics or beliefs think they are ‘the chosen’ and the ‘righteous ones’ and God’s gift to the planet”…. for they so clearly are deluded )

                    lol…here endeth my prayer for the morning

        • phillip ure 16.1.1.2

          and as an aside..

          ..there are rumours floating around in my ‘hood’..mt albert..(we/insiders call it m.a.-central..with of course the part of new nth rd running thru the mt albert shops..being our sunset-strip..that’s where it all happens..with of course the nth korean stylings of dear leaders’ face all over that wall..being an inspiration for us all..as we sit @ the lights..)

          ..that our illustrious-leader shearer has been seen driving around ‘the hood’ with an extendable ladder on his roof..and binoculars slung around his neck..and a sniffer-dog trained to seek out signs of fresh painting..on roofs..

          ..speculation is these are..of course.. practical-aids for his benny-on-hot-tin-roof hunting..

          ..(and it’s funny..whenever you see him..he seems distracted..always looking up and and around..

          ..and constantly sniffing the air..)

    • crikey..!

      ..parker has got a little haven for the far-right there..eh..?

      ..there is himself..cosgrove (say no more!)..davis (who i call petrie-dish..symetrical-but-shallow)..lusk/slater-protege-nash..west-coast reactionary o’connor..and benny-on-a-hot-tin-roof shearer..

      ..whoar..!..

      ..imagine them as ministers..?..(shudder..!..)

      ..on that evidence..i think ‘park parker on the bottom!’ should become a rallying cry for voters in this race..

      ..or else you might get nash…doing something..

      ..and shearer climbing/stumbling/bumbling all over hot tin roofs..hunting bennys…

      ..nash doing his undercover rightwing dissembling/white-anting for slater/lusk

      ..and parker himself..bovver-boots on..and a glint/gleam in his ‘sparkling-eyes’..

      ..hunting down the poorest..to further kick the crap out of them..

      ..humming ‘we don’t care for the vulnerable!’ as the soundtrack to his fucking them over..

    • Clemgeopin 16.3

      This kind of reporting is just dirty politics and evil interference in an internal party election process which has a secret ballot. Her report is both unnecessary and nor can not be verified as authentic as most members will be reticent to openly declare their preferences. This imaginary poll is just a nasty piece of news. It will effectively and unfairly influence possible outcomes. In other words, just mischief making gossip from a so called journalist. Scum.

      • wekarawshark 16.3.1

        How is this dirty politics? She’s made an educated guess on where the various MPs’ support lies, I assume based on common knowledge within the beltway and by talking to people. It’s clearly labelled as an estimate.

        Bomber published such lists a few times in previous Labour crises.

        The reason I like it is its transparent and tells me more about where the various factions are within Labour. It’s not disclosure of a secret ballot. None of what she has written will be news to the beltway and quite a few outside. Now the rest of us get to see this too.

        • karol 16.3.1.1

          Yet Phil Twyford is attending Little’s event today – Young puts him in the Parker camp.

          • wekarawshark 16.3.1.1.1

            Maybe he wants to see what happens? Or maybe he supports Little? Or maybe he supports Parker, but is keeping his options open because he believes Little will win. Who would know what his motivations are?

            • wekarawshark 16.3.1.1.1.1

              I did see Lynn’s comment in another thread about Young making shit up.

              http://thestandard.org.nz/have-a-coffee-and-a-yarn-with-andrew-little-on-labour-day-auckland/#comment-917284

              • lprent

                I read that article this morning and wondered where in the hell she got that info from. Most of it was complete crap according to what I know of – most MPs seem to be looking at the whole list especially second prefs. Moreover it ignored 60% of the vote (members and unions) AND ignored the STV parts of the votes.

                It was like she was looking into a 1990s political cookbook, Moore style

                • wekarawshark

                  I’m sure she had an agenda. I skimmed the article (mainly because it didnt’ contain anything useful re STV) but I was interested to see the various MPs grouped in such a way. I think it’s probably easy for the Labour insiders and beltway types to forget that those of us on the outside don’t necessarily get to see that very often or know what’s going on.

        • Tracey 16.3.1.2

          are the women and maori evenly divided amongst the candidates?

        • Clemgeopin 16.3.1.3

          It is still just guesswork or gossip or lies.
          It has validity ONLY if the caucus members THEMSELVES decide to reveal in public who they are going to give their first preference vote to. Otherwise, she is simply putting the MPs in unfair compromising positions, causing division and confusing the caucus members, the Labour party members and the affiliates. She has no right to do that. The nasty journalist is doing dirty politics and nothing else in the guise of news and comment.
          I wonder if the party can sue this stupid woman and the paper for this audacious nastiness in the name of ‘news’ as if it is factual without proof. She simply should have no right to put people’s names on a list and say, it is her ‘estimate’.
          I think if the louse is prosecuted, I am ‘estimating’ that she could be sued by the party for at least $500,000. A stupid paper and a stupid journalist.

          • wekarawshark 16.3.1.3.1

            “It has validity ONLY if the caucus members THEMSELVES decide to reveal in public who they are going to give their first preference vote to.”

            In principle I agree with this. It’s not like would see this shit with the GP for instance. But then the GP don’t have these inherent factions within their party that are bringing the left down. If they did, I’d be all for journalists shining light on it.

            • Clemgeopin 16.3.1.3.1.1

              I don’t understand your logic at all. The Labour party members are electing their party leader as prescribed by their party constitution.
              There are four candidates. Obviously different members will prefer different potential leaders for different reasons. Nothing to do with ‘factions’ and crap. This is how democracy is supposed to work, as opposed to dictatorship. It is the RW nasty scum journalists and so called ‘expert’ paid air head commentators that are interfering in this party process and framing it as nasty.

              • Colonial Rawshark

                The information will have come from leakers inside caucus. It won’t simply have been magicked up out of thin air by the newspaper.

                • Clemgeopin

                  Yes, I think you are correct and I did entertain that thought this morning. If so, and if true, then it shows that some shameless disloyal stupid, white anting, anti solidarity anti unity, traitorous bastards are still behaving with dirty politics in the caucus. Wish we could identify these selfish nincompoops and kick them out somehow.

                  From the list published by Audrey Young, and given that Mahuta and Little are shown to have the least support, it would be the anti-Mahuta, anti-Little brigade, and possibly the anti-Cunliffe scum in the caucus.

                  So, now my vote is more sure:
                  Mahuta=1st, Little=2nd.

                  • wekarawshark

                    I thought as well as leaking, some of it will be common knowledge within the beltway.

                    (don’t forget numbers 3 and 4, you need to put all 4 on the voting paper for it to be valid)

              • wekarawshark

                Clem, are you honestly saying you believe there are no factions within the Labour caucus?

                • Colonial Rawshark

                  And that each of those factions doesn’t have a core group of ordinary members – and staff – who closely support it.

                  • wekarawshark

                    Quite. Which is sad, and also more worrying re the future of Labour. If say Little gets in, does some tough love on the caucus, what the members going to do if their MP is sidelined because he won’t toe the line?

                    Likewise, what are other members going to do if Robertson wins?

                    (sometimes I really understand those who just want Labour to die. Sorry).

                    • Colonial Rawshark

                      If Labour does not become fit for its historical mission, then there really is not much need for it to be around.

                • Clemgeopin

                  Right now, they are deciding who to have as their leader. That is not ‘factions’ the way you and the RW are stating it. This is a fair democratic process. Once the leader is elected, then they are all supposed to unify behind that leader. If they don’t, then they should leave the party and become independent MPs or be kicked out. There is no other honourable way.

                  • Colonial Rawshark

                    the simple truth is – the best predictor of future organisational behaviour is past organisational behaviour. Neat concepts of honour and democracy don’t really come into it.

    • Molly 17.1

      Interesting talk by Ben Goldman – though I’ve read a few of his articles in the past – I haven’t watched him before.

      Of note the final words on Tamiflu – given the hype of pandemic swine flu in the media and the excessive stockpiling of the drug by many countries around the world – NZ included.

  16. joe90 18

    Humans are awful.

    .

    Moore and van der Hoop arrived in St. Augustine the next day. The following morning, they watched as the sun rose over a young right whale beached on the sand.

    She had a black chin.

    A team of researchers cut away Bayla’s shark-mauled blubber with long knives and examined her internal organs. In her mouth, they discovered rope that Dodd and Slay hadn’t gotten. It was so deeply embedded, new tissue had grown over it, “like a pig in a blanket,” van der Hoop would later observe in her journal.

    By day’s end, the team determined that Bayla had died from severe emaciation and lacerations caused by hundreds of feet of 7/16-inch diameter floating polypropylene rope that connected traps or pots — the sort that NOAA had attempted to restrict.

    Beyond that, there wasn’t any more to be known. The rope could have come from off the coast of New England, or perhaps Canada; by the time Moore’s team had cut it away, she was too weakened to survive.

    http://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/2014/10/25/chasing-bayla/tJuazyjBOsdKQTRVnAbh7K/story.html

  17. In order to better understand Money creation and what the consequences of the current money creation system are for the 99%. I thought it would be interesting to the members of this group because it also explains a lot about where John Key is coming from and why the Reserve bank “printed” more than half a billion of NZ $ in August.

    Century of Enslavement: The History of The Federal Reserve

  18. Ron 20

    Attended Little’s cafe fest this afternoon. Arrived early just in case and stuff me it was already full with a queue out the door into court yard.
    I was truly impressed with the number attending and talking to the people was pleased at the reason people gave for attending. Democracy is alive in some Peary’s of Labour. Little was pretty impressive spoke well and gave the people his view of the party and what it needs to do to regain voter support. Also pleased to see other MP’s present.
    Good to see Lynn there as an honest journalist. I am feeling much more hopeful about leadership campaign let’s see what the meetings next week are like and I can then cast my vote.

  19. wekarawshark 21

    Apple being evil, taking local files from personal computers and storing them on their servers (and thus handing them to the NSA). Also taking contacts without permission. On Yosemite.

    http://datavibe.net/~sneak/20141023/wtf-icloud/

    • Murray Rawshark 21.1

      Thanks weka. I won’t upgrade just yet.

      • wekarawshark 21.1.1

        Within a week of the release there were all these convos online about how to uninstall Yosemite and reinstall Mavericks (made more difficult by the fact that Apple removed the Mavericks download from easy access). Having a bootable copy of Mavericks and any future Apple OS seems prudent.

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