Open Mike 28/02/2018

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, February 28th, 2018 - 96 comments
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96 comments on “Open Mike 28/02/2018 ”

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  1. Ed 1
    28 February 2018 at 6:02 am

    The Herald calls this weird weather.

    However you do find the truth in a few places.
    Rachel Stewart is an independent journalist.
    Her twitter feed sums it up.
    Are we worried yet?

    Arctic warming: scientists alarmed by ‘crazy’ temperature rises

    An alarming heatwave in the sunless winter Arctic is causing blizzards in Europe and forcing scientists to reconsider even their most pessimistic forecasts of climate change.
    The north pole gets no sunlight until March, but an influx of warm air has pushed temperatures in Siberia up by as much as 35C above historical averages this month. Greenland has already experienced 61 hours above freezing in 2018 – more than three times as any previous year.
    “This is an anomaly among anomalies. It is far enough outside the historical range that it is worrying – it is a suggestion that there are further surprises in store as we continue to poke the angry beast that is our climate,” said Michael Mann, director of the Earth System Science Center at Pennsylvania State University. “The Arctic has always been regarded as a bellwether because of the vicious circle that amplify human-caused warming in that particular region. And it is sending out a clear warning.”
    Although most of the media headlines in recent days have focused on Europe’s unusually cold weather in a jolly tone, the concern is that this is not so much a reassuring return to winters as normal, but rather a displacement of what ought to be happening farther north.

    https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2018/feb/27/arctic-warming-scientists-alarmed-by-crazy-temperature-rises

    https://twitter.com/RFStew/status/952826052824285184

    And why does Stewart say we should be worried?
    Because of these and other words from Professor James Renwick, Victoria University climate scientist.

    My gut feeling is that we won’t stop the warming until we are committed to 2.5C or even 3C of temperature rise.That would lock in loss of the West Antarctic ice sheet, plus most of Greenland and part of the east Antarctic and would commit the globe to 10m or more of sea level rise. Plus of course a big rise in extreme high temperatures, droughts, floods and crop failures.
    Because of the delay time built into the climate system, it’s my feeling that we won’t take decisive action until a lot of change is baked in, so we’ll have a great deal of adapting to do.

    I am worried.
    Are you?

    The predictions of Michael Ruppert all of a sudden look quite possible.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WAyHIOg5aHk

    • eco maori 1.1
      28 February 2018 at 6:06 am

      + 1000 Ed we need to act now to preserve Papatuanuku /Earths for the future of ALL OUR Mokos and her creatures

    • eco maori 1.2
      28 February 2018 at 7:06 am

      Duncan from news Hub He Tangata /People it seems that The breakfast show all of a sudden are showing concern about the mokopuna /grandchildren social media habits I say yes one should monitor this activity as that is what I do with my mokos .
      But the breakfast show is just trying to damage ECO MAORI Mana buy undermine the amount of people that follow my post and thats a fact. The mokopunas know that they will have to clean up any mess we make and leave behind for them .
      I put out post that tell the people the truth about OUR society I am educating the peopel about the reality about the worlds society so the mokopuna /grandchildren will not slip up as much as they would with out this information on there journey up there ladders of there lives Kia Kaha Ka kite ano

      • Ed 1.2.1
        28 February 2018 at 7:20 am

        Duncan Garner and Richardson are Tory bovver boys.
        They do not have any idea of what the solution could be.

        I suggest you read George Monbiot ‘Out of the Wreckage ‘ or Johann Hari’s Lost Connections for solutions to our planetary and societal crises.

        The answer is NOT capitalism.

    • One Two 1.3
      28 February 2018 at 1:01 pm

      Was Al Gore correct?

  2. eco maori 2
    28 February 2018 at 6:19 am

    I say that Te Karere Maori news should get to screen from 530 to 630 am a hole hour in the morning and 630 to 730 pm in the evening as the time slot thats designated is not the appropriate for Te Karere to achieve the maximum viewers .
    Everyone is still sleeping at 530 am and still working at 355 pm.
    ECO MAORI will be able to tautoko Te Karere if the show was screened at these times LIVE . Kia kaha ka kite ano Ana to kai

    • eco maori 2.1
      28 February 2018 at 6:42 am

      Morning Rumble Rock radio station yes Roger ECO MAORI is like you not into spicy food. I have improved my palate of late I eat some spicy foods now.
      When I was fishing down the Auckland Islands the cook served up sausage loaded with black pepper I tasted it an through it out the port hole the cook was not happy I boiled me up a terkihi fish lol. Ka kite ano

      • Stunned mullet 2.1.1
        28 February 2018 at 7:16 am

        I thought the Auckland islands were a marine reserve EM ?

      • eco maori 2.1.2
        28 February 2018 at 7:19 am

        Duncan from News Hub heres the link to Ropata WahaWaha some people were looking for it and the search bar is not returning the link ONE would be able to find many books on OUR history
        in Aoteroarou that YOU won’t be able to find on Aoteroarou websites
        There is a positive phenomenon with having Simon Bridges as leader of the National Party for MAORI Ka pai .Ka kite ano
        I can tell you about the hands thing but I won’t ECO MAORI has big hands

        https://nla.gov.au/nla.obj-375351692/view?partId=nla.obj-375363010#page/n30/mode/1up

        • eco maori 2.1.2.1
          28 February 2018 at 7:31 am

          Duncan thanks for giving Gareth Morgan air time ka pai yes we need to control our cats to preserve OUR native wildlife we need to control all the preditors not try and eliminate them that is a task that will cost to much and that money would be better spent on preserving our beautiful native wild life.
          Ka kite ano

          • One Anonymous Bloke 2.1.2.1.1
            28 February 2018 at 8:16 am

            Memo to Gareth Morgan.

            What we found was that this little seabird did better when both cats and rats were on the island, rather than just rats,” said Matt Rayner, a conservation ecologist at the University of Auckland. When the non-native cats were voted off the island with traps and poison, three times as many chicks perished than with both predators around.

      • eco maori 2.1.3
        28 February 2018 at 7:48 am

        Rumble Rock radio you people are so funny I got a sore face now Kia kaha

  3. Carolyn_Nth 3
    28 February 2018 at 7:54 am

    Tweets in response to Bridges RNZ interview this morning. He reluctantly admitted there is a housing crisis – for those it effects.

    And asked if he had any regrets, Bridges said his Anadarko interview with John Campbell – but also the housing crisis. but Nats don’t think they did anything wrong in the election.

    Regrets don’t cut it now. lives ahve been damaged.

    And the interviewer asked:

    “Are you a boy sent to do a woman’s job?” – @GuyonEspiner to @simonjbridges

    • Stuart Munro 3.1
      28 February 2018 at 8:42 am

      Bridges is smarter than some of his colleagues though. Most of them still want to pretend there never was a crisis. The public, insofar as they have a coherent view, think there is, so maintaining the lie is electorally costly.

    • Sans Cle 3.2
      28 February 2018 at 11:09 am

      Did Bridges get asked about his reproductive plans, if any? Seem to remember this was a “fair” question for the last opposition leader, when elected.

      • You_Fool 3.2.1
        28 February 2018 at 11:38 am

        He has young children I think… I am not sure he will be able to give his all to the job as leader of the opposition and fulfill his role as a parent. I mean what will he do if he has to choose between attending a debate at parliament or his child’s school play? Shouldn’t we be asking that of him?

        • Sans Cle 3.2.1.1
          28 February 2018 at 12:10 pm

          I trust one of his advisors will be encouraging him to keep a diary of when he has sex, ejaculates, copulates and/or procreates…..as he could be asked this in a few months. You know…asked whether this happened before or after he was elected opposition leader. Hell, the Australians will surely find this fascinating and devote a whole magazine interview to the topic! He can forget developing policy now that he is opposition leader, as everyone will want to know his reproduction activities.

          • You_Fool 3.2.1.1.1
            28 February 2018 at 12:18 pm

            Well maybe he shouldn’t have become leader of the opposition if he didn’t want his penis size, sex habits or masculinity talked about in the public arena.

            • Sans Cle 3.2.1.1.1.1
              28 February 2018 at 12:43 pm

              I think you are onto something You_Fool. That is so true. He should have just stuck to his knitting….or proverbially stuck to the building of his bridges (real bridges, not little Bridges)….but yawn….nobody seems interested in his little Bridges.
              That’s a bridge too far for a male politician.

              • greywarshark …
                28 February 2018 at 5:49 pm

                Was he asked about his family at all? They should ask if he is going to try to repeal section.59.

  4. ropata 4
    28 February 2018 at 8:13 am

    Haha @ David Seymour’s interview on RNZ this morning. The female interviewer asked him why he wore a sexist T Shirt and he was reduced to spluttering then got cut off 😂
    https://www.instagram.com/p/BfpjMzZhhfK/

  5. Johan 5
    28 February 2018 at 8:31 am

    Reality check, if the shoe fits….
    In election time Seymour always had a free ride in the Epsom electorate.
    He is trying very hard to remove the label of National’s poodle of Epsom without much success.

    • tc 6.1
      28 February 2018 at 11:58 am

      No that’s the MSM choosing to make him news worthy.

      Village idiots could get the same coverage but they don’t represent the <1%'ers.

  7. cleangreen 7
    28 February 2018 at 8:54 am

    Here is where the Labour coalition Government are going wrong using Shane Jones as a hinge pin for the regions;, as he is fucking it all up now tter we sent to Jones and the other Labour coalition Ministers.
    and causing the Labour/NZ First coalition very serious problems read this lee;

    Public COMMUNITY letter;
    27th February 2018.

    Hon’ Shane Jones, Minister for Regional Development & other Ministers.
    Dear Ministers,

    ——————————————————————————————————————–

    Dear Minister Shane Jones; please read the Gisborne newspaper report today about your statements about rail while you was in Gisborne last Friday firstly please, (see below); – you now see that there was bad blood left in Gisborne after your offhand statement was made wrongly; Re: Mixed Signals — “Minister yet to receive strong case for Wairoa to Gisborne rail line”, February 24 story.

    That statement was patently untrue that we had not previously sent your Party NZF any “strong case for Wairoa to Gisborne rail line”.

    Our associated groups from HB and Gisborne have both seriously committed along with the HBRC a case for bidding on taking the line over in March 2013 with a rail operations group who formed a company called Gisborne Rail Ltd. NZFirst MP Denis O’Rourke placed this item on the Question period to Gerry Brownlee as Minister of transport and MP Brownlee offered to accept the case if the offer was so worthwhile.

    You can ask Winston Peters about all the times he has been to Gisborne (three since 2014) attending our rail conferences and he as NZF leader supported the rail line to Gisborne so you need to school up on the past activities Mr Jones please.

    The Gisborne herald had the large coverage of the rail Forum we held in November 2016 where Winston Peters along with Maori Party Co-leader Marama Fox and Labour spokesperson on transport Sue Moroney all spoke solidly in support for return of rail to Gisborne so ask Winston about the 1hour speech he gave in support for rail also then at the “Tairawhiti Rail Forum” that day please.

    http://gisborneherald.co.nz/localnews/2535803-135/three-parties-say-fix-rail

    Gillian Ward has been deeply involved with this community for many years and is very well respected, so you need to take her words seriously and come to Gisborne and meet with the real folks of this region, (not just those anti-rail lobbyists you were “captured by” several remarked here, as we all will show you deep passion for returning rail to this the most isolated community in NZ of its size sir.

    We now challenge you to come back to meet with our associated groups who want to show you our strong case for restoring the Wairoa to Gisborne rail line
    Consider this as an official request for you to arrange to come and attend our conference to show our side of the story of rail here in Tairawhiti.

    We await your acceptance.
    Founding members of the Gisborne Rail Action Group since 2009.
    Warmest regards,

    Article referred to is here that featured in the Gisborne Herald yesterday 27/2/2018.

    http://gisborneherald.co.nz/opinion/3251978-135/shafted-by-eastland-group-lobbyists

    February 27, 2018
    gisborneherald.co.nz
    COLUMN – Shafted by Eastland Group lobbyists
    by Gillian Ward Published: February 27, 2018 2:14PM
    Gillian Ward is Chairwoman of the Gisborne Rail Action Group
    Re: Mixed Signals — Minister yet to receive strong case for Wairoa to Gisborne rail line, February 24 story.
    The Minister actually has received a strong business case for reinstating the rail line between Wairoa and Gisborne. In response to his request in November, a proposal was delivered to him two weeks ago. So, it is very disappointing that in the national launch of the Provincial Growth Fund on Friday neither restoration, nor a feasibility study, was announced for the Wairoa-Gisborne railway line.
    Rather than being let down because of the lack of a “strong case”, the Gisborne residents who have marched and signed a petition requesting that the government restore the rail line, and businesses who need rail to move their fresh produce to Napier’s export container port, have been shafted by a small handful of Gisborne business leaders.
    These few people who should be representing the best interests of the region are instead conflicted. They are focused solely on the expansion plans of Eastland Port, and planning for large profits, and they have the ear of the politicians.
    Rail freight of containers of fresh chilled produce destined for export from Napier’s container port will provide flexibility, be competitive, and offer security of freight transport with an additional land transport option for our isolated region. Huge container ships and multiple container cranes handle enormous stacks of containers at Napier Port’s deep-water port.
    Eastland Port on the other hand has a totally different situation, being located in a silty river mouth, which is carefully dredged to attain the depth required for log ships, while minimising disturbance of sensitive marine habitats. There is much less capacity to handle containers.
    Hon Shane Jones is aware of this conflict of interest, and although he has stated that, “There’s political will to back rail”, he would prefer that the community sort out our priorities, rather than the government imposing decisions.
    Mayor Foon has stated that Gisborne needs all the transport modes — roads, rail, coastal shipping and air transport. The residents and business community have indicated, with a march of 2000 people led by Mayor Foon along Grey Street to the Railway Station in April 2012, a petition of 10,480 signatures presented by Mayor Foon to Hon Anne Tolley at Parliament in May 2012, fundraising $11,000 for BERL Economics to review KiwiRail’s May 2012 analysis of the economics of the railway line, public meetings, letters to the Gisborne Herald editor, articles in The Gisborne Herald, presentations to the District Council, as well as business case analyses of the commercial viability of the line, that reopening the railway line would be well-supported by the community and businesses.
    It is a small city characteristic that influential leaders can be conflicted, wearing more than one “hat”, and the aspirations of the Gisborne community to restore our other land transport option have been well and truly undermined by a few people determined to scuttle these aspirations.
    Gisborne had to campaign hard to be included in the Government’s national rail-building effort in the late 1920s. It was a hard-won battle and a challenging line to complete, but the rail line was opened in 1942 amid jubilation from the Gisborne community.
    Now that we have the line, it is a gift from an earlier generation. The cost to repair the storm damage is minimal compared to the value of the asset. Imagine the cost to build a railway line through the Wharerata hills now!
    Please Minister Jones, hear the voice of the Gisborne community and filter out the noise from the Eastland Group lobbyists!

    ———————————————————————————————————————-

    • alwyn 7.1
      28 February 2018 at 9:43 am

      Don’t bother wasting your time talking to Jones.
      If this Government has any integrity Shane will be out the door by the end of February, this February.
      I always thought that the billion a year slush fund would have a lot of dubious deals but I didn’t think it would blow up in the first week.
      http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=12003317
      What was Jones thinking about? Or was he simply not thinking at all and the fun of throwing taxpayers money down black holes just got to much for him?

      • cleangreen 7.1.1
        28 February 2018 at 6:40 pm

        Alwyn perhaps Jones needs to see this rail plan labour had back in 2004 where every port needed to be connected by rail to ensure export freight had the lowest carbon footprint, so Jones can use this legislated policy from his coalition partner to push for his Rail to the Northland port eh?

        I say – perfectly said I cant argue with that.

        We must keep labour coalition honest and accountable here for sure.

        Labiour must reinstate their Rail policy they legislated back in 2005.

        ISBN 0-478-10005-1
        National Rail Strategy to 2015
        May 2005
        http://www.transport.govt.nz/assets/Import/Documents/nationalrailstrategy.pdf

      • veutoviper 7.1.2
        28 February 2018 at 7:41 pm

        You’re well out of date, alwyn. Keep up.

        This is not a slush fund with plenty of checks and balances built into its administration and approval processes.

        And the West Coast ‘dubious deal’? Turns out that the current government has put on hold all dealings with the company concerned until a full investigation is completed ; AND they have papers (PM spoke of these in her answers to Bridges under Question 1 in Question Time) which were tabled in Parliament late this afternoon by David Parker) proving that the previous government, under Bridges as the relevant Minister at the time, paid about $50,000 to the company last year (2017). Talk about a backfire on Bridges!

        https://www.parliament.nz/en/watch-parliament/ondemand?itemId=198698
        (Question 1)

        https://www.parliament.nz/en/watch-parliament/ondemand?itemId=198723
        (Parker tabling the papers under House Business)

        These payments were also discussed on RNZ Checkpoint tonight and this is a RNZ news article summarising the situation issued just a few minutes ago. It has lots of links to earlier articles etc about the situation.
        http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/political/351493/flagship-regional-development-programme-on-ice

        No doubt lots on other media sources.

        • alwyn 7.1.2.1
          1 March 2018 at 10:20 am

          What a shame you got so excited, so early.
          You really do have to keep up.
          The rubbish the PM and her lot was talking about was work contracted for in 2016 and completed long before there was any concern about the person involved with that company.
          It was also so low priced that it would never have reached the Minister’s desk.
          Still, you have to rather admire the smooth way that the Government went into full smear mode.
          Ardern and the drunken dwarf both pushing it and the idiots in the Press Gallery playing along.
          You would almost think that the true masters of smear, H1 and H2 were still around. Oh that’s right, they are. H2 is running the PMs Office and H1 is still pulling the strings from afar.

      • Draco T Bastard 7.1.3
        28 February 2018 at 8:46 pm

        Ah, right, so a capitalist who’s been investigated for fraud is Jones’ fault?

        Got to hand it to you RWNJs, you’re very quick at shifting the blame for one persons alleged wrong doing on to someone else.

    • greywarshark 7.2
      28 February 2018 at 5:56 pm

      I fear cleangreen that there are too many words in your epistle. I don’t think the man is one for long sermons, or short ones either. Can you summarise that in 20 words? That’s my advice for what it’s worth so you don’t need to send me any gratuity.

  8. dukeofurl 8
    28 February 2018 at 9:24 am

    Ive seen it in news stories.

    Other stories too have pointed out its an extremely rare weather event, last similar happened in 1976

    This from Danish Metrological Institute shows current year and previous years

    http://ocean.dmi.dk/arctic/meant80n.uk.php

    [TheStandard: A moderator moved this comment to Open Mike as being off topic or irrelevant in the post it was made in. Be more careful in future.]

    [next time make your argument plain. As it is you look like you tried to run denialist lines on a post that clearly says don’t. Next time I will probably just ban. – weka]

    • weka 8.1
      28 February 2018 at 9:59 am

      mod note.

      • dukeofurl 8.1.1
        28 February 2018 at 10:48 am

        Of course the Arctic is warming, no need to repeat the obvious.

        This is just a weather event , not a climate event. ie average over longer term

        The reference I gave showed the anomaly currently and provided proof of the claim for the previous occasion.

        Indeed the graphs were essentially the same ones included in Monbiots tweet.

        • weka 8.1.1.1
          28 February 2018 at 11:05 am

          It’s the use of the word ‘just’ in your second sentence that makes me think of denialist arguments.

          That this is a weather event is just as obvious as the arctic warming, so what’s your point exactly? Especially as I addressed this in the post, so I’m wondering if you actually read it or if you want to minimise the situation.

          “The reference I gave showed the anomaly currently and provided proof of the claim for the previous occasion.”

          Like I said, next time explain your point and you are less likely to be misconstrued.

        • Draco T Bastard 8.1.1.2
          28 February 2018 at 2:35 pm

          This is just a weather event , not a climate event. ie average over longer term

          Once every now and then is a weather event.

          Such extreme warm intrusions in the Arctic, once rare, are becoming more routine, research has shown. A study published last July found that since 1980, these events are becoming more frequent, longer-lasting and more intense.

          “Previously this was not common,” said lead author of the study Robert Graham, from the Norwegian Polar Institute, in an email. “It happened in four years between 1980-2010, but has now occurred in four out of the last five winters.”

          That is climate change.

        • greywarshark 8.1.1.3
          28 February 2018 at 5:59 pm

          We are all anomalies here dukeofurl. We just have to get over that and see if we can get our real working brain sharpened up till it uses all of our capacity. Which means, don’t go for the easy answers over climate, everyone who’s anyone has moved on from that. Try and keep up.

  9. tc 9
    28 February 2018 at 9:49 am

    This clown, and most of the other MP’s (including a fair few labour/NZF ones IMO), have their own interests at the forefront.

    He trades off this iwi meme like shonky traded off the ‘state house boy made good’ meme and Bennett does same. Adams had a go also to offer up the wasp angle which was as pathetic as it was hilariously hypocritical after her actions as a minister.

    It’s brochure wear and spin as his actions already show he’s as much regard for taiao as the oil companies he pimps for.

    [TheStandard: A moderator moved this comment to Open Mike as being off topic or irrelevant in the post it was made in. Be more careful in future.]

  10. adam 10
    28 February 2018 at 9:56 am

    I’m guessing the far right junta in Burma is really happy that a Tory government is in power in England. Otherwise they might have to answer for their crimes. At least they know a ideological bestie will never let them down.

    http://www.dhakatribune.com/world/south-asia/2018/02/21/rushanara-100-british-mps-icc-referral-myanmar-military/

  11. Cinny 11
    28 February 2018 at 10:03 am

    Ha !!! nick smith seems concerned about his position, sucking up to simon via the media.

    Hang in there nick, nelson public will be voting you out in 2020, am so looking forward to it.

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/101815138/national-leader-simon-bridges-to-be-a-match-for-ardern-says-nick-smith

    • Tamati Tautuhi 11.1
      28 February 2018 at 1:24 pm

      Nah they love him in Nelson

    • Planet Earth 11.2
      28 February 2018 at 3:58 pm

      Cinny, you were telling us “Nelson has had enough of Nick Smith” before the last election, and look what happened! And that “Alpha Andy” was the new messiah. Crystal ball might need a service.

      • greywarshark 11.2.1
        28 February 2018 at 6:04 pm

        He used to have a cute couple of dimples, and has done some things here and has a very good team behind him that are always pointing out everything that has happened in Nelson, and he has been behind all of them except the new babies. The parents are allowed to claim kudos for those.

  12. indiana 12
    28 February 2018 at 10:42 am

    Ed, you can start by boycotting any products or services created from capitalism. This means disconnecting from the grid and not using the internet, mobile phones, IT technology etc – can you do that? I can’t.

    [TheStandard: A moderator moved this comment to Open Mike as being off topic or irrelevant in the post it was made in. Be more careful in future.]

    • weka 12.1
      28 February 2018 at 11:02 am

      Tell me, do you think the situation is urgent? Do you think we need urgent change? Why do you think disconnecting from all those things is the only option here?

      I’m giving you the benefit of the doubt here, that you weren’t just trolling. Let’s see if you can have a non-denialism conversation about CC action.

      • indiana 12.1.1
        28 February 2018 at 12:36 pm

        Ed’s question was how to rid the world of capitalism in 10 years – I was responding to that point.

        I’m not convinced capitalism can be reversed or eliminated. If capitalism is one factor contributing to CC, then focusing solely on that one factor will have little effect. The fact remains capitalism has made our lives better – ask anyone playing Fortnight on PlayStation – they want more technological advances. That means more mining minerals, more consumption of electricity etc. All these things add to the CC problem – I don’t believe the youth have any appetite to let that go.

        But hey, maybe I’m just trolling.

        • Molly 12.1.1.1
          28 February 2018 at 2:04 pm

          I’d be interested in seeing your answer to weka’s questions:
          “do you think the situation is urgent? Do you think we need urgent change?”

        • greywarshark 12.1.1.2
          28 February 2018 at 2:20 pm

          Indiana
          So it’s just wise negativism, throw hands in air, sigh, and next? Probably pontificate about how the young never can learn from wise advice etc.

          But hey, I think you are trolling, definitely.

          We’ve got to think, because we haven’t much money, said Rutherford. How do we do that, limit credit availability so that people can’t borrow money to buy wall-wide television sets for instance? So they sit and watch fast moving coloured pictures and other people’s ideas of other people’s lives instead of concentrating on what’s actually happening to them personally and others peripherally! Or is that tl:dr for you to direct your concentrated thought for a short time?

        • weka 12.1.1.3
          28 February 2018 at 2:36 pm

          You might* have gotten away with that argument had you actually made it instead of having a go at another commenter.

          But you’re still skating pretty close to denialism. Thanks for the reminder though, I’ll add into the warning that “it’s too late” or “no-one is going to change” are also off topic.

        • Bill 12.1.1.4
          28 February 2018 at 2:57 pm

          If capitalism was one of a number of factors responsible for AGW, then you’d have a point. But it’s the sole factor.

          And it hasn’t “made our lives better” if the entirety of humanity is taken into account, as opposed to assuming the pampered “west” is a fair representation of the world today.

          Can it be ended in 10 years? Well, I’ve no idea.

          But if we choose to do something meaningful about keeping global average surface temperatures below 2 degrees, then capitalism’s done and dusted. (Sooner rather than later)

          And if we choose to do nothing, then capitalism’s done and dusted. (Sooner or later – where “later” isn’t some dim and distant future)

          So we should ignore capitalism and its requirements and focus on global warming and its requirements. (And if that means capitalism’s gone in 10 years, then so what?)

          • Andre 12.1.1.4.1
            28 February 2018 at 6:11 pm

            “If capitalism was one of a number of factors responsible for AGW, then you’d have a point. But it’s the sole factor.”

            Whatever-the-hell-it-was by way of socioeconomic system that they used behind the Iron Curtain in the old USSR and Warsaw Pact states, it certainly wasn’t capitalism. Yet they too were pretty enthusiastic about AGW-causing things like coal-fired power plants, private cars etc.

            • One Anonymous Bloke 12.1.1.4.1.1
              28 February 2018 at 7:12 pm

              Neither Capitalism nor Communism exist anywhere outside of economic story-books.

              The problem is BAU. Not some theory: the things we do.

            • Bill 12.1.1.4.1.2
              28 February 2018 at 9:53 pm

              Whatever-the-hell-it-was by way of socioeconomic system that they used behind the Iron Curtain in the old USSR and Warsaw Pact states, it certainly wasn’t capitalism.

              As Lenin himself stated, the aim of the Bolsheviks was to construct state capitalism, because (according to the theories sunk in determinism, though Lenin may just as well have been being a cynical opportunist in parroting the line ) socialism could only happen in the Germany’s and Britain’s of that era.

              And many a leftist at the time understood what the Bolsheviks were doing and rejected the whole USSR nonsense because of it.

              Which is all by the by, because the sole remaining economic order that drives production in the world today is liberal capitalism.

        • ropata 12.1.1.5
          28 February 2018 at 7:07 pm

          Capitalism isn’t the principle that advances our civilisation. It is the hard work and unsung brilliance of millions of people working together.

          The Capitalist class are actually working against human advancement in every field.

          TINA is false. Read:

          https://www.reddit.com/r/LateStageCapitalism/comments/80ge9z/richard_d_wolff_here_professor_of_marxian/

          • ropata 12.1.1.5.1
            28 February 2018 at 8:11 pm

            HuffPo calls out some good points made by Wolff:
            https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/richard-wolff-capitalism-reddit_us_5a953a59e4b0699553cc259c

            Inequality born of capitalism threatens the social fabric of the U.S., said Wolff, pointing to the folly of using the stock market as a marker of economic health. Examining additional factors, such as unemployment, wage stagnation, debt levels and the opioid crisis, shows that “for the top 5-10 percent things are going well; for the rest, not at all. And the resulting deepening split between rich and poor has explosive implications for the whole society,” he said.

            Wolff, who advocates moving away from capitalism to a different and better system, called on people to organize and to challenge the idea that capitalism is the strongest economic model.

            “Everything I know about human psychology tells me that many things motivate human efforts to innovate: love, fear, ambition for respect, prestige, money, pride, etc. Only capitalism, seeking to justify its exploitation of workers, would reduce the complexity of motivation to one motivator, money.”

            “Trump’s massive assaults on women, the labor movement, immigrants, minorities, etc have produced very little mass street action by social movements. How [to] explain such passivity in the face of such provocation? A declining capitalism has so far succeeded in presenting itself as the opposite, a super-strong totality impossible to budge.”

            While conceding that capitalism has allowed for periods of upward mobility ― for example, in the U.S. between the ’50s and ’80s ― that time is over, said Wolff, an expert on Marxism. “In capitalism, workers’ well-being is fundamentally insecure, held hostage to capital’s needs and drives.”

  14. Andre 14
    28 February 2018 at 12:44 pm

    Vehicle exhaust is no longer the largest source of volatile organic compound (and resulting PM 2.5 particles) pollution in Los Angeles. Consumer products as a class, such as paint, cleaning products, personal care products etc have overtaken vehicle exhaust. So attention is now needed on these other areas for further big improvements in air quality.

    https://cleantechnica.com/2018/02/27/consumer-products-now-primary-source-vocs-cities-not-vehicles-study-finds/

  15. greywarshark 15
    28 February 2018 at 2:52 pm

    The media sure offers a smorgasbord of things today.
    There’s this with heading :

    Amazon Made $5.6 Billion in Profits Last Year and Reportedly Paid Zero American Dollars in Federal Taxes
    Jeff Bezos is the richest person in the world, with a personal net worth of $108 billion. In 2017, Bezos’ company, the internet retail giant Amazon, reportedly took in $5.6 billion in U.S. profits.
    So, how much did Amazon pay in income tax on that bounty? Hang on, we’re getting some news…what? What’s this? Amazon effectively paid zero dollars in federal income taxes in 2017? Oh.

    Amazon is projecting a $789 million windfall from Republicans’ tax bill, according to the Institute on Taxation and Economic Policy, which may have factored into its reason for witholding taxes this year. Bezos—like many other nominally liberal capitalists—claims to disagree with Donald Trump’s policies, while quietly lapping up the Republicans’ regressive tax breaks.
    https://splinternews.com/amazon-made-5-6-billion-in-profits-last-year-and-repor-1823329221

    and
    https://gizmodo.com/this-guy-injected-his-dick-with-stem-cells-to-try-to-ma-1823245542?IR=T

    and
    https://gizmodo.com/a-judge-denied-facebooks-attempt-to-kill-a-privacy-suit-1823361260?IR=T

    • Ed 15.1
      28 February 2018 at 5:04 pm

      Boot them out.
      No tax.
      No business allowed.

      • greywarshark 15.1.1
        28 February 2018 at 5:31 pm

        You would think that would be the way to go Ed. I was amazed at how Ireland has opened up to big business with little or no tax.

        They seem to have have gambled that it will lift their economy I guess. It might have been okay but there was that bolstering the banks during 2008 crisis that in a low-inflation world lands them with big responsibilities. But then they might have thought that the banks would think that they had to bolster Ireland in return.

        So who knows what to do for the best. Tobin tax would be good, miniscule tax and would bring in lots. I imagine it would be .001% or something so hardly noticed, in solution of all that flow of money.

      • indiana 15.1.2
        28 February 2018 at 5:51 pm

        Can any business in NZ not operate without making a profit that can be taxed? By your logic, no one could start up a new venture, as usually in the first few years, there is no profit – no profit therefore no business allowed!. Even then, once you have control of your business, you can determine your profit by adjusting how much you reinvest – but I suppose you would call that tax evasion.

        • greywarshark 15.1.2.1
          28 February 2018 at 6:09 pm

          Indiana
          By your logic, … once you have control of your business, you can determine your profit by adjusting how much you reinvest – but I suppose you would call that tax evasion.

          I might. Wouldn’t you? When would you consider it should pay tax, and fund both the system and the people in the country that hosts and enables it?

      • One Anonymous Bloke 15.1.3
        28 February 2018 at 5:56 pm

        No business allowed.

        Reality check: we’ve already tried prohibition. It doesn’t work.

  17. AsleepWhileWalking 17
    28 February 2018 at 5:32 pm

    What to do? Use less deodorant!

    From Doctors are Dangerous (well they are) email last week:

    “The deodorants, perfumes and soaps that keep us smelling good are fouling the air with a harmful type of pollution — at levels as high as emissions from today’s cars and trucks.

    That’s the surprising finding of a study published Thursday in the journal Science. Researchers found that petroleum-based chemicals used in perfumes, paints and other consumer products can, taken together, emit as much air pollution in the form of volatile organic compounds, or V.O.C.s, as motor vehicles do. The V.O.C.s interact with other particles in the air to create the building blocks of smog, namely ozone, which can trigger asthma and permanently scar the lungs, and another type of pollution known as PM2.5, fine particles that are linked to heart attacks, strokes and lung cancer.”

    On a side note its horrible to go into or walk past changing rooms at the gym/etc. Stop the spray people – its like an interior version of geoengineering.

    [TheStandard: A moderator moved this comment to Open Mike as being off topic or irrelevant in the post it was made in. Be more careful in future.]

  18. eco maori 18
    28 February 2018 at 6:26 pm

    3 News Hub david seymour has just shown the boys and men that in his view the ladys are a piece of meat and just a object.
    David ladies are our equal with out ladies men would not exist they carry OUR babys for nine months go through excruciating pain to delivering OUR babys.
    The least the we expect and should receive from a political is to be respected and we expect politicians to show the world that ladies are respected
    In Aotearoa/New Zealand. Ana to kai
    Ka kite ano

  19. eco maori 19
    28 February 2018 at 6:35 pm

    News Hub looks like the sandflys are going to try and set me up.
    The way they were behaving today was extrem and I can see two of them skeeming the male is probably trying to convince his partner to lie and set ECO MAORI up You see Eco is going to check mate them very soon and the sandflys know this I will keep you posted.
    Kia kaha Ka kite ano. P.S I’m glad I have thestandard.org.nz to check the sandflys deceitful moves.

  20. cleangreen 20
    28 February 2018 at 6:45 pm

    Today Shane Jones again was sort of lambasted in the media by HB Today journalist in a video its worth a watch here;

    Public COMMUNITY letter;
    28th February 2018.

    Hon’ Shane Jones, Minister for Regional Development & other Ministers.
    Dear Ministers,

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/hawkes-bay-today/news/article.cfm?c_id=1503462&objectid=12003185

    Local Focus: Is the Gisborne mayor off the rails?

    Herein on the ‘HB Today’ local paper is the statement from Nikki Searanke who is chairperson of “Iwi one’ Ngati Porau stating the real facts here again Mr Jones.

    As yesterday in the Gisborne herald you received from us the news article from Chair of the “Rail Action Group Gillian Ward who spoke very clearly that you nhave already been provided with a clear “strong case for rail” two weeks ago (see below as I have kept the last article referred to this at the bottom of this email.)

    Shane jones, hear now from our Director Nikki Searanke of a new rail group who are now also requesting you regard rail as important here.

    Consider this as an official request for you to arrange to come and attend our conference to show our side of the story of rail here in Tairawhiti.

    We await your acceptance.
    Founding members of the Gisborne Rail Action Group since 2009.
    Warmest regards,

  21. greywarshark 21
    28 February 2018 at 6:46 pm

    Wouldn’t you rip your ration book.
    Or in today’s words – WTF.
    Trying to get a paper version of the census.
    Can’t get the 0800 236787 number to work.
    Have put in an email and after finishing my message in the window supplied, and ticked the captcha I am not a robot, I am prevented from sending it by a fucking nonsensical message.
    ‘This answer is required. Please enter an enquiry no longer than 500 characters.’
    I have clicked in the window to make sure it is still current but again when I press Submit it won’t go.

    I recall a sarcastic joke from the USA years ago as to them naming one of their space rockets ‘ Civil Servant’; It doesn’t work, and they can’t fire it. This of course was before the extremely efficient neolib and freemarket system took over but strangely enough, the malady lingers on.

    Maybe someone from Planet Government may see this message and help.
    Major Tom to Ground Control!!

    For here
    Am I sitting in a tin can
    Far above the world
    Planet Earth is blue
    And there’s nothing I can do….

    • AsleepWhileWalking 21.1
      1 March 2018 at 5:51 am

      Just phoned that number and seems to work Ok?

      • greywarshark 21.1.1
        1 March 2018 at 11:45 am

        Number still doesn’t work for me. I have managed to send them a message saying that I can’t get through. I couldn’t last night because I got a message saying that it couldn’t be more than 500 characters. Why doesn’t that get advised from the get-go. It would seem practical and rational so to do.

        Surely Stats has bought an 0800 nation-wide coverage. (I believe that sometimes it can be limited to certain areas.)

        I have requested papers to be sent on line and they advise it may take a week which would be till 10th and the census is on the 6th. Today is Thursday so if they are posted today through NZ Post they might get through to be delivered on Monday but we don’t have delivery on Tuesday. But courier can be quite cheap and presumably government can get a good price for bulk so i guess that will be what is done.

        I don’t want to be controlled by a government that will only communicate with me by computer. That is what it is trying to do and the whole direction of communications is to demand that you go through a computer which puts a machine between you and ‘your’ government. That requires money to buy one or keep one running, or a trip to use an available one probably only between certain hours. The citizen cannot choose to go into certain departmental offices, if they still exist locally etc. I don’t think this is good for democracy – it’s not open for sure.

  22. eco maori 22
    28 February 2018 at 6:50 pm

    Many thanks to Roger Tui ASAP Sheck for having faith in the Warriors his team mates and new management and signing up to the club for 4 years. Ka pai Steve Kearney well done. Ka kite ano

  23. eco maori 23
    28 February 2018 at 7:22 pm

    The project JJ and Dominic I listened to you people all the time back in the day you are a cool couple Kia kaha my sorrows go out to you for your pain. Just try and find something positive and look after each other me and my wife have had a lot of trying times she a Rabbit sign and I’m a Roster the advice is these signs are never to have a relationship lol but we see the big picture and that is the relationship.
    Ka kite ano

  24. eco maori 24
    28 February 2018 at 7:33 pm

    The project the Mokopunas you interviewed we very intelligent kai pai.
    They have some valid points to put out there More money for teachers and they will flock in to teach teaching is one of the most important profession in OUR society ECO MAORI Says they are growing our future let’s pour more money into all our mokos.
    Kai kaha Ka kite ano

  25. eco maori 25
    28 February 2018 at 7:59 pm

    Don’t threat Rock radio ECO MAORI is a loyal man Rumble radio show all the way. Kia kaha

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