Open mike 28/08/2021

Written By: notices and features - Date published: 6:00 am, August 28th, 2021 - 80 comments
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80 comments on “Open mike 28/08/2021 ”

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Cricklewood 1

28 August 2021 at 8:20 am

Wtf have our Dhbs been doing this morning I read we havent actually managed to get a large number of nurses fitted for the N95 masks so they actually work properly.

We've had months to get procedures in place so essential things like this get done before the inevitable happened and delta arrived.

This is a massive H&S failure for our most frontline workers im lost for words at the ineptitude of the management…
- Sabine 1.1
  
  28 August 2021 at 8:32 am
  
  Might pay to actually ask the Ministry of Health as they would distribute funds and set expectations?
- Patricia Bremner 1.2
  
  28 August 2021 at 8:36 am
  
  As Andrew Little said, they had become "silos.'
  
  Separate disparate, with meaningless duplication and top heavy, each would have their own systems, providers and internet services. Power islands!!
  
  Buying the best mask? No no the cheapest! That is why their days are numbered. imo
  
  However Bloomfield needs to intervene where poor choices have been made.
  - Sabine 1.2.1
    
    28 August 2021 at 9:00 am
    
    Currently the Ministry of Health is wanting to open up another MIQ in Rotorua, the Town, Maori, DHB etc all advised the Ministry of Health and the government that the town could not cope, that the DHB could not cope and so on and so forth.
    
    If the Ministry of health decides that Rotorua can cope, will it be the fault of the DHB if they in the end can't cope or will it be just another frustrating day for Andre Little?
    
    The DHBs have their challenges, and covid has not helped, but surely the Ministry of Health has also some responsability to shoulder in regards to funding, staffing, funding of staffing, and funding and regulating a workplace that is safe and healthy for its workers.
    - Cricklewood 1.2.1.1
      
      28 August 2021 at 9:09 am
      
      Very true, end of day the Director and ultimately the Minister are responsible when it goes wrong, it's starting to feel like we have done very little in preparation for a delta outbreak despite having so much information from other countries it's like there was a genuine belief it wouldnt get in… we should have had contact tracers trained and ready to hit the ground running, we ran out of quarantine space in a week ffs, no extra intensive care beds…. should have guessed really when Starship was quickly overwhelmed by RSV.
      - Herodotus 1.2.1.1.1
        
        28 August 2021 at 10:52 am
        
        Like many have commented, we in NZ have been so so fortunate that even with this initial outbreak the spread of delta has been limited, and by in large kept within the Auckland area. Think of the potential of the Coromandel or Wellington expand and extend our wonderful health workforce capacity. We are also indebted IMO those who did contract covid with how the individuals and how the church community conducted themselves 👍🏾 (Also from the TV news last night) How well the Church community, Butterbean (David Leteele) group and police (+ others unseen), has come together to support those who are house bound due to not being able to move into The Jet Park. There are some wonderful people out there going well beyond
    - Gabby 1.2.1.2
      
      28 August 2021 at 10:16 am
      
      Jim Boult volunteers Q'town for a quarantine centre, he promises to stop his funking whining if they get one.
      - McFlock 1.2.1.2.1
        
        28 August 2021 at 4:06 pm
        
        The farming connection is still too close to Queenstown for Boult to ever stop whining.
        
        Too few tourists – ohmagerd govt needs to help. Too many tourists – ohmagerd some freedom campers aren't being fleeced as much as we want, govt needs to help.
        
        Graeme 1.2.1.2.1.1
        
        28 August 2021 at 4:57 pm
        
        Silly part about it is that most of the Queenstown economy, that's all the non-tourist side, and some tourist players, are booming. Don't even think about getting a tradie this year. And the tourism side of town can't get staff, they've run off and found better paying and more convenient positions elsewhere in town. A large operator who got a government grant to do conservation projects to keep their staff employed has had to try and employ new staff to complete these projects.
        
        And there hasn't been that many businesses go under. Yet.
        
        Attrition has been a bit more than normal, but not up to the usual recession carnage. This is because the property side of town is booming rather than crashing and taking the rest of town with it in the typical Queenstown crash.
        
        This bout of covid could change things for tourist operators, and some high profile groups might come a gutsa. Our beloved mayor is involved in Wayfare and his degree of whine seems inversely proportional to their business levels. Sometimes it seems quite personal.
        
        Unfortunately his whining does nothing positive for the outside perception of the town and it's business community and we end up battling through the negative perceptions for the next 6 months. Once we break through that there's some good trade.
        
        At the lower end of tourism it's pretty grim. A lot of us are hanging on and could be gone at the first opportunity (end of lease) or when we can't pay the rent or bank any longer. Could be a very different town in 6 months.
        
        McFlock …
        
        28 August 2021 at 5:37 pm
        
        Good luck. This L4 feels a bit closer to the bone than the last one, I reckon. Hopefully there will be more local tourism come the warmer weather and L2.
      - Pete 1.2.1.2.2
        
        28 August 2021 at 5:01 pm
        
        The ex Queenstown MP Hamish Walker didn't want returnees from India, Pakistan and Korea.
        
        Apparently he was reflecting community views.
        
        Is Jim Boult happy to take them now?
- Gabby 1.3
  
  28 August 2021 at 10:14 am
  
  Think of the money saved though.
- Incognito 1.4
  
  28 August 2021 at 11:29 am
  
  Relax, the sky is not falling. They have masks to wear in Auckland City Hospital and a fit seal check is ok and more floor staff are using them.
- Gypsy 1.5
  
  28 August 2021 at 1:26 pm
  
  Meanwhile…Auckland and Waikato DHB's didn't know which of their staff were vaccinated.
  - Incognito 1.5.1
    
    28 August 2021 at 1:31 pm
    
    And the 18 other DHBs?
    - Gypsy 1.5.1.1
      
      28 August 2021 at 2:05 pm
      
      I would really hope they were better. But I wouldn't bet on it.
Morrissey 2

28 August 2021 at 10:34 am

Pity the noble U.S. regime, forced to deal with "heinous" and "unsavoury" groups overseas.

RNZ National, Saturday 28 August 2021, 8:12 a.m.

Just over three years ago, on Saturday 16 June 2018, Kim Hill asked her guest Michael Portillo, in apparent seriousness, whether he felt "squeamish" about working with the likes of Nigel Farage. That question was predicated on an assumption that Michael Portillo, a henchman of Margaret Thatcher, was somehow morally superior to Nigel Farage. In fact, Michael Portillo was part of a cabinet that, just to give a few examples, diplomatically and militarily supported Saddam Hussein's Iraq through most of the 1980s, aggressively supported the apartheid states of South Africa and Israel, supported the blood-soaked regimes in Indonesia, Chile, and Saudi Arabia, and waged a brutal war against the working people and the poor in Great Britain.

Yet Kim Hill still treated Portillo as if he was a superior person to Nigel Farage.

Something similar to that happened this morning, when she interviewed Dr Srinjoy Bose about the American defeat in Afghanistan. Dr Bose is a cut above most of the think tank-funded propagandists she usually interviews about international affairs; his comments were mostly judicious and well informed. However, he still allowed himself to lapse into talking about the United States government as if it were morally superior to the "heinous" and "unsavoury" groups it is forced to work with.

https://www.rnz.co.nz/national/programmes/saturday/audio/2018810082/dr-srinjoy-bose-what-s-next-for-afghanistan

I sent the following email to Dame Kim, which she may read out later. Keep listening, guys!

Which state is "heinous" and "unsavoury"?

Dear Kim,

Your guest Dr Srinjoy Bose spoke this morning of the "heinous" and "unsavoury" groups that the United States has endorsed in the past and continues to endorse.

The U.S. regime has endorsed, armed and diplomatically supported the brutal regimes in Egypt, Saudi Arabia, and the apartheid states of South Africa and Israel. It has destroyed, or helped to destroy, democratic popular governments in (to name just a selection) Vietnam, Congo, Guatemala, Iran, Indonesia, Chile, Nicaragua, Bolivia, and Honduras. It is still trying to undermine the democratically elected government of Venezuela.

The U.S. repressed and terrorised the poorest and most vulnerable populations in South America (Operação Condor ) and in South-East Asia (the Phoenix Program). After being ousted from Vietnam, the U.S. cooperated with and endorsed the Khmer Rouge in its war against Vietnam.

By any standards, the United States has been, and continues to be, a heinous and unsavoury regime. It is interesting, to say the least, to hear an academic like Dr Bose apply those epithets not to the boss but to the boss's accomplices.

Yours in wonderment at selective morality,

Morrissey Breen

Northcote Point
- Ad 2.1
  
  28 August 2021 at 11:42 am
  
  What would the modern world look like in those countries you cite if the United States had not intervened?
  - Byd0nz 2.1.1
    
    28 August 2021 at 12:27 pm
    
    Any country with American intervention is worse off for a long time after, America is poison to these places, better to let a country work out it's own destiny. American intervention as in Iraq has turned an A grade country into a poverty stricken place with the added burden of depleted uranium cancers given to them by the American military regime's intervention. Stay home yank.
    - joe90 2.1.1.1
      
      28 August 2021 at 12:54 pm
      
      The country ruled by a Baathist thug who excelled in politically/religiously/ethnically motivated reprisals, state sponsored terror, torture, mass murder, rape, deportation, extrajudicial executions, forced disappearances, and the use of chemical weapons to inflict blindness, asphyxiation and death on men, women and children.
      
      That A grade country?
      
      /
      - Incognito 2.1.1.1.1
        
        28 August 2021 at 12:57 pm
        
        Geopolitics AKA war has always been a musical chairs of thugs.
        
        joe90 2.1.1.1.1.1
        
        28 August 2021 at 12:58 pm
        
        And binary tankies are tankies.
      - Byd0nz 2.1.1.1.2
        
        28 August 2021 at 1:05 pm
        
        Whatever. It was for the people of Iraq to make changes, not for the yanks to interfere with depleted uranium or with the chemical weapons like they used against Vietnam. But I see by your posts that you have been well brainwashed by western news media
        
        joe90 2.1.1.1.2.1
        
        28 August 2021 at 1:10 pm
        
        Whatever.
        
        Your depraved whatever indifference to the suffering endured at the hands of thugs because 'Murica is astonishing. Fucking trash.
        
        Drowsy M. Kram 2.1.1.1.2.2
        
        28 August 2021 at 3:00 pm
        
        How often do these state ‘interventions’, however well-intentioned, result in sustainable improvements in living conditions for the citizenry? If you plan to ‘replace’ a regime, best check that the replacement is fit for purpose, imho.
        
        How to Fail at Regime Change [Sam Meyerson, 22 Jan 2020]
        The United States justified its military interventions by arguing that removing the political leaders of Afghanistan, Iraq, and Libya would improve prospects for stability and security in each country. However, looking back on each of these conflicts, it is difficult to conclude that these American-led interventions actually improved the situation on the ground.
      - Sabine 2.1.1.1.3
        
        28 August 2021 at 2:42 pm
        
        You mean the country that got fucked up by the english well before the americans? – https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraqi_revolt_of_1920 ?
        
        You mean the country that under Saddam Hussein ( a major US American Invention – https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2003/9/4/when-rumsfeld-was-chummy-with-saddam – did most of what you mentioned above, pretty much with the permission of the US? After all, it was Poppy Bush that abandoned the Shias after they rebelled against Saddam Hussein.
        
        Thatcountry? https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/opinions/2003/04/12/the-ghosts-of-1991/243cd128-1201-42c6-ae99-33a05d4264bf/
        
        This country that gassed people with the knowledge of the US? https://www.institutkurde.org/en/info/latest/when-saddam-gassed-thousands-of-kurds-at-halabja-7942/
        
        Yeah, really what could have been or what should have Mesopotamia been were it not for constant interference by the English and the us americans, Never mind the sanctions, depleted uranium being the gift that keeps on giving, Abu Graib and all the other Jazz.
        
        Sometimes really the last sadistic fuck to run rough shed over any of these country is not the worst. But just really the last. I doubt that Iraq today is in any better stage then it was before the Invasion in 2003 and the subsequent US American/Coalition of the Willing Occupation.
  - Brigid 2.1.2
    
    28 August 2021 at 12:48 pm
    
    Are you saying those cited countries had to be ravaged by the US for the sake of the modern world?
    
    'Intervention', as it's so glibly called, by the US, was not what they wanted.
weka 3

28 August 2021 at 11:27 am

Luke Wijohn gets told by cops he’s not allowed to stop on his daily walk and will be arrested if he doesn’t comply with instructions. Anyone know if the covid laws allow this from the police?

https://twitter.com/wekatweets/status/1431396925769535489?s=21
- Rosemary McDonald 3.1
  
  28 August 2021 at 1:12 pm
  
  How it should have panned out…
  
  Luke; "I am on my daily walk, picking up my girlfriend from work. I heard someone scream so I came over to see if they were OK. I am filming because it is not the first time police have been over zealous when making an arrest."
  
  Police Officer; "OK sir, we appreciate your concern and rest assured the miscreant is safe in our hands. You have a good evening, and thank your girlfriend for being part of keeping the team of 5 million fed. "
  
  Luke; "I'll tell her that Officer, and thank you for your good work."
  
  True respect for young Luke. I would have told them they could fuck right off.
  - weka 3.1.1
    
    28 August 2021 at 2:41 pm
    
    I would have been weighing up whether I could afford a night locked up.
    
    They were really intimidating towards him, but just the dude that took his details. I wonder what else was going on that caused them to overreact.
- McFlock 3.2
  
  28 August 2021 at 5:05 pm
  
  looks like he's taken the videos down.
  
  Pity. fecking wrote screeds as almost a breakdown, lol
pat 4

28 August 2021 at 11:31 am

A frank conversation that is worth a listen….some difficult questions to be answered.

https://thekaka.substack.com/p/the-week-that-was-for-the-weeks-end-a6c
Sacha 5

28 August 2021 at 11:39 am

Corporations taking the piss: 1, workers: 0.

https://twitter.com/NewsroomNZ/status/1431399888680534024
- Ad 5.1
  
  28 August 2021 at 3:13 pm
  
  That's a 100% government-owned corporation, thankyou. Did our fucking useless Minister David Clark (Minister of State Owned Enterprises) raise his little finger?
  
  Still no sign of this government's first MECA BTW.
  - left for dead 5.1.1
    
    28 August 2021 at 3:56 pm
    
    Ad, unfortunately We’ve got this plonker as our MP through those border changes,Damn what bad luck.
    - Ad 5.1.1.1
      
      28 August 2021 at 4:49 pm
      
      Tough break.
      
      Dunedin should be pumping out a great new generation of Labour wannabe-MPs.
- McFlock 5.2
  
  28 August 2021 at 5:17 pm
  
  Well, one worker 1.
  
  Might be a lucrative way out of the industry, though – when your knees and back are screwed, get a payout rather than just a goodbye.
Incognito 6

28 August 2021 at 12:37 pm

China leads the way with a new form of energy generation.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-08-28/china-thorium-molten-salt-nuclear-reactor-energy/100351932

I already can hear the tribal drums in the distance.
Bearded Git 7

28 August 2021 at 1:06 pm

Interesting article here on ScoMo's Covid policy, or lack of it.

https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2021/aug/28/morrisons-safe-plan-for-living-with-covid-may-be-necessary-even-sensible-but-it-wont-be-safe

I wonder why ScoMo is going with 70% of over 16's when children can catch Covid-400 have died in the USA. (No link for this sorry-read it somewhere this morning).

Why not aim to vaccinate 95% of ALL of the population before very gradual opening of borders? Hope NZ does this.
- Incognito 7.1
  
  28 August 2021 at 2:51 pm
  
  The non-binary message is quite clear:
  
  Even with a “highly effective vaccine and high total update”, reopening New Zealand's borders will result in increased cases of Covid-19, hospitalisations and death, the authors found.
  
  Modelling allows experts to run simulations for different scenarios and strategies.
  
  A Te Punaha Matatini study suggested Māori would be 50 per cent more likely to die than non-Maori if Covid-19 ran wild in New Zealand. In the 40-59 age group, Māori could be almost five times as likely to die as Pākehā.
  
  “Prioritising vaccinations for those most at risk of severe outcomes from COVID-19 infection (including Māori and Pasifika) benefits the whole population as well as protecting those groups,” Sporle said.
  
  But model predictions are only as good as the input data.
  
  Sporle said more information about vaccination rates among different age groups and ethnicities was needed, rather than the broad-brush data currently provided.
  
  https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/coronavirus/126211034/longterm-public-health-measures-needed-alongside-vaccination-for-borders-to-reopen
joe90 8

28 August 2021 at 2:08 pm

Amazing kid.

https://www.instagram.com/tv/CTEqVHsnKz7/?
joe90 9

28 August 2021 at 2:16 pm

Rather discouraging.

There are 82 new Covid community cases today – and an expert modeller is predicting a tough week ahead for the country.

The new cases bring the total number of cases in the Delta outbreak to 429. The total number of community cases in Auckland is now 415 and in Wellington it is 14.

[…]

"It's the wrong question. You can't ask that question with Delta – Delta behaves differently. It works differently to the wild form. It has shorter waves. You have a day or two where you think you are getting on top of it. Then you get hit by a bad day," he said.

"The curve is bending but not fast enough."

Jones said the Government should not make the mistake other countries had made by focusing on whether transmission was only occurring within households.

"The point is Delta is ferocious and it represents another challenge. We are going to have to come up with something more," Jones said.

He said the Government could look at things like diverting all vaccines to South Auckland to ensure that at least everyone there had one dose.

University of Auckland Covid-19 modeller Shaun Hendy said the Government may need to look at tightening alert level 4 restrictions if the outbreak did not plateau soon.

This could include shutting some supermarkets and other essential businesses.

"If it doesn't plateau over the next few days then we may need to be thinking about tightening alert level 4 restrictions. The real worry is if we continue to see spread through businesses that are operating."

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/covid-19-coronavirus-delta-outbreak-82-new-community-cases-today-police-patrols-intensify-expert-warns-tough-week-ahead-possible-delta-is-ferocious/24FKRNQBIO56MS2YVQ7Z6JBN6M/
- weka 9.1
  
  28 August 2021 at 2:44 pm
  
  Always wondered if there's an L5.
  
  How would they decide which supermarkets to close?
  - gsays 9.1.1
    
    28 August 2021 at 9:04 pm
    
    The PTB have told petrol stations to stop selling food.
    
    What are the chances that supermarkets are told to stop selling petrol?
- McFlock 9.2
  
  28 August 2021 at 5:21 pm
  
  well, shit.
- aj 9.3
  
  28 August 2021 at 6:45 pm
  
  Rather discouraging.
  
  Perspective.
  
  https://twitter.com/SiouxsieW/status/1431442811438596097
Chris 10

28 August 2021 at 2:29 pm

It should beggar belief there are employers out there who think like this guy. Makes you wonder how many there are and how many people's lives are a misery because of it:

https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/industries/126209523/covid19-employers-cant-just-decide-to-pay-staff-80-in-lockdown-lawyers-say
Stephen D 11

28 August 2021 at 4:46 pm

Covid-19 live: Queenstown police find 50 people on lockdown mountain bike ride

FFS, And people will whine if lockdown is extended.
- McFlock 11.1
  
  28 August 2021 at 5:24 pm
  
  "educated".
  
  Line 'em up and ticket every one of 'em. That would bloody educate them.
  - Jester 11.1.1
    
    28 August 2021 at 6:04 pm
    
    Did they ticket David Clark last year?
    - McFlock 11.1.1.1
      
      28 August 2021 at 6:10 pm
      
      Was he in a group of 50?
      - Jester 11.1.1.1.1
        
        28 August 2021 at 8:57 pm
        
        No. He was simply breaking his own governments lock down rules and eventually lost the health portfolio.
        
        McFlock 11.1.1.1.1.1
        
        28 August 2021 at 9:11 pm
        
        Cool. So not breaking bubbles with dozens of others, and faced repercussions for what he actually did. Thanks for clearing that up.
      - Incognito 11.1.1.1.2
        
        28 August 2021 at 8:59 pm
        
        How many hats was he wearing? John Key had a few.
      - gsays 11.1.1.1.3
        
        28 August 2021 at 9:06 pm
        
        Worse, he was the Minister of Health.
        
        McFlock 11.1.1.1.3.1
        
        28 August 2021 at 9:14 pm
        
        And lost his job over it.
        
        Jester 11.1.1.1.3.2
        
        29 August 2021 at 12:05 pm
        
        He was the worst Minister of health
  - Treetop 11.1.2
    
    28 August 2021 at 8:55 pm
    
    Impound the bikes.
- joe90 11.2
  
  28 August 2021 at 5:27 pm
  
  No Covid down south so mass gathering are alwhite in Queenstown.
  - Graeme 11.2.1
    
    28 August 2021 at 9:20 pm
    
    Evidently the number of people self isolating around the town after the two corporate events up north is considerable. I'm very surprised there hasn't been something pop up. But the country don't seem to have a Mitre10 or Bayleys cluster either.
    
    But keeping the adventurous souls locked down has been a challenge here. Last lockdown there was a fairly high profile backpacker party, although they were technically in their hostel bubble, just got a tad off their faces and loud. This lot were the local mountain bike club, who do some good stuff but are pretty loose. Actual situation probably not that dissimilar to the photos of 50+ people walking down a beach in Auckland, just these were people riding reasonably gentle tracks on their bikes. The more extreme tracks / jumps were closed off so a possibility some of the more hard core riders were on the intermediate trails with and going a bit hard. Wouldn't have been hard to get 50+ people there out of the local Fernhill community, lots of young people live up there and they've got a top notch bike park catering to all levels on their door step.
The Al1en 12

28 August 2021 at 5:45 pm

Ivermectin using cop who opposed vaccines claiming "don't care as long as it works." dies from covid.

On August 14th, for instance, Manning posted a meme that stated, "If we lose on vaccines we will completely lose our right to sovereignty over our own bodies." That very same day, Manning informed his friends that "Wayne Feed and Seed has some liquid and past Ivermectin get it while supplies last." When someone asked Manning in the comments if he needed to be dewormed, Manning replied, "don't care as long as it works."
- joe90 12.1
  
  28 August 2021 at 6:01 pm
  
  Side effects may include swelling of the hind quarters..
  
  https://twitter.com/RyanEGraney/status/1430856835997868032
  thread
  
  https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1430856835997868032.html
  
  edit:
  https://twitter.com/iamgabesanchez/status/1431409899339087874
  - The Al1en 12.1.1
    
    28 August 2021 at 6:11 pm
    
    Unbelievable that people will self medicate using animal medicine, ask random people on the net for the correct dosage, yet avoid approved medicines because of right wing conservatives playing politics.
    
    That comment where it's asked if it's 1cc per 100lbs made me laugh. I'd have wrote back – With you being a yank, best take 3cc and haz moar cheeseburgers.
  - McFlock 12.1.2
    
    28 August 2021 at 6:12 pm
    
    good for social distancing, though
    - joe90 12.1.2.1
      
      28 August 2021 at 6:23 pm
      
      like a dosing strip
Fireblade 13

28 August 2021 at 6:29 pm

Roy Morgan Poll – August 2021

Labour Party 39.5%

National 25%

Act NZ 13%

Greens 12%

Maori Party 2.5%

NZ First 2.5%

TOP 2%

https://www.roymorgan.com/findings/8789-nz-national-voting-intention-august-2021-202108270635
- Ad 13.1
  
  28 August 2021 at 9:53 pm
  
  Labour have not yet hit bottom.
  
  100% command of the news cycle, total popularity of their leader.
  
  Must be some thing else people aren't liking anymore.
  - Graeme 13.1.1
    
    28 August 2021 at 10:27 pm
    
    16.5% sitting on the fence.
    
    Poor bloody fence
- Bearded Git 13.2
  
  29 August 2021 at 3:26 pm
  
  Lab/Gr/MP 68 seats (54/95×120)…fairly comfortable.
Grafton Gully 14

28 August 2021 at 6:42 pm

Alcohol is another preventable disabler and killer. State power to minimise harm is limited to the easy targets like Covid 19 because in New Zealand the state uses public opinion to validate its actions. Public opinion trumps the evidence.

https://www.health.govt.nz/system/files/documents/publications/alcohol-factsheets.pdf

https://www.actionpoint.org.nz/the-alcohol-industry-in-new-zealand
- pat 14.1
  
  28 August 2021 at 6:46 pm
  
  The problem is you live in a democracy…the politicians will always have at least one eye on where the votes are….would you prefer something else?
- McFlock 14.2
  
  28 August 2021 at 10:09 pm
  
  From a public health perspective, I tend to agree. But the problem with alcohol is that people like it, and it can be easily created with household items.
  
  Which makes elimination impossible, so it needs to be controlled instead.
McFlock 15

28 August 2021 at 7:02 pm

So the yank intelligence services have come up with no source for the 'rona. Probably not engineered. Probably not even associated with a lab (at a 4:1 ratio of opinions).

PRC has done a lot of bad shit, but making a global pandemic (even by accident) probably ain't on that list.
- Poission 15.1
  
  28 August 2021 at 7:21 pm
  
  In the absence of a known animal reservoir,an accidental lab leak is probable.
  
  This is the third outbreak of SARS to have been traced to a laboratory: small outbreaks occurred in Taiwan and Singapore last year. “The WHO may call for a containment policy for SARS to reduce the number of samples of the virus and the number of laboratories handling it,” said Dr Hall.
  
  https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC416634/
  - McFlock 15.1.1
    
    28 August 2021 at 7:49 pm
    
    Well, several intelligence agencies focused on this specific instance disagree with your assumption (my italics):
    
    “These analysts give weight to China’s officials’ lack of foreknowledge, the numerous vectors for natural exposure, and other factors,” the report states.
    
    Another agency agrees with you:
    
    “These analysts give weight to the inherently risky nature of work on coronaviruses,” the report states.
    
    And some have no idea either way.
  - RedLogix 15.1.2
    
    28 August 2021 at 9:50 pm
    
    I've believe that while it's highly unlikely there will ever be definitive proof either way – the circumstantial or indirect evidence is highly weighted toward the lab leak hypothesis.
    - The geographic coincidence cannot be ignored. The WIV is absolutely known to have been working with the same family of corona's and the first definitive outbreak occurs in close proximity.
    - The virus when it first appears is already highly adapted for both infectivity and transmission in humans. It is highly unlikely any zoonotic origin virus will master both tricks at once – but almost certain one of GoF origin will already have.
    - It has a number of genetic features already well known to virologists – the infamous furin cleavage site being the most outstanding – that have been routinely used experimentally to increase infectivity in the lab for at least a decade. There is a direct professional chain from people involved to those who invented the technique.
    - For all other major zoonotic origin virus's (HIV, SAR's MER's etc) we fairly quickly found not only the animal host, but the sequence of the virus progressively evolving to become a human pandemic. Despite over 18months of intense, highly motivated effort, no such chain of evidence has emerged for COVID.
    - The Obama Administration banned funding of GoF research after considerable pressure from experts in the field concerned about the highly realistic possibility of lab leaks. Even when conducted at high levels of security it was already well understood that the consequences could be so catastrophic as to completely negate any possible benefit. Yet it turns out the WIV struggled to maintain the Level-4 safety standards the lab was supposed to provide – and was actually performing much of it's corona work at the far less stringent Level 2 standard. This made a leak almost inevitable.
    - Finally – if the WIV was genuinely convinced that the work it was doing was completely unrelated to SARS-COVID-2 it would have absolutely been in it's best interests to have supported a full open book, pockets out investigation by a recognised team of trusted independent experts sometime back in Jan 2020. Instead the exact opposite has occurred.
    The reason why the origin of the virus is important has relatively little to do with the politics of blame. On that score it seems both Chinese and US authorities could be held accountable, but probably never will be. The real reason is that if this virus truly did arise in a GoF environment – which is by definition a process of forced evolution – this would tell us a great deal about what it is optimised to do, and how efficiently it might respond to selection pressure.
    
    Interestingly I’m starting to see this realisation start to seep to the surface in some of the science papers and public conversations now taking place. The idea that something worse could well come after Delta is now being openly discussed.
    - Poission 15.1.2.1
      
      29 August 2021 at 10:14 am
      
      I've believe that while it's highly unlikely there will ever be definitive proof either way – the circumstantial or indirect evidence is highly weighted toward the lab leak hypothesis.
      
      It will remain an open problem,as there is no absolute truth aside from a full disclosure.
      
      Now the response is to prohibit GOF research globally,(which should never have been undertaken) and undertake policy initiatives that will constrain the next mutation of either covid or other species with an increased probability of doubling in future decades including significant constraints on international travel.
      
      https://www.pnas.org/content/118/35/e2105482118
- Tony Veitch (not etc.) 15.2
  
  29 August 2021 at 5:11 am
  
  Regardless of Covid-19s origins, you have to admire the PR job done by the CCP with the (Marxist) director of WHO.
  
  Getting it named sort of anonymously, Covid-19, rather than from its place of origin, the Wuhan virus like most other infectious diseases, has enabled the CCP to distance itself from the outbreak.
  
  And that is just one step away (and is happening inside China) from denying they were responsible at all.
- joe90 15.3
  
  29 August 2021 at 2:47 pm
  
  It may take awhile.
  
  https://twitter.com/JoshRosenau/status/1430732707072458755
  
  Thursday, 31 October 2013
  
  A decade after the SARS pandemic, scientists have found the strongest evidence to date it originated in bats.
  
  A team of mostly Chinese researchers report today in the journal Nature they have isolated two new viruses that are closely related to the SARS virus.
  
  https://www.abc.net.au/science/articles/2013/10/31/3880358.htm
dv 16

29 August 2021 at 12:02 pm

Report in stuff

A US elementary school teacher took off her mask for a read-aloud. Within days, half her class was positive for Delta

https://www.stuff.co.nz/world/americas/300393908/a-us-elementary-school-teacher-took-off-her-mask-for-a-readaloud-within-days-half-her-class-was-positive-for-delta

On May 19, one teacher, who was not vaccinated against the coronavirus, began feeling fatigued and had some nasal congestion. She dismissed it as allergies and powered through.

She got a test

While she was usually masked, she made an exception for story time so she could read to the class.

By the time she learned she was positive for the coronavirus two days later, half her class of 24 had been infected – nearly all of them in the two rows closest to her desk – and the outbreak had spread to other classes, siblings and parents, including some who were fully vaccinated.