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Open mike 28/04/2015

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, April 28th, 2015 - 183 comments
Categories: open mike - Tags:

openmikeOpen mike is your post.

For announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose. The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the Policy).

Step up to the mike …

183 comments on “Open mike 28/04/2015”

  1. miravox 2

    Well done Andrea Vance

    Speaking in Dubai, Key was unclear on New Zealand’s position on the bombing.

    “I think the official position was we didn’t oppose the airstrikes so I’m not sure we went out and had a physical position…but by definition we didn’t oppose it.”

    Asked to clarify if New Zealand supported the campaign he said: “I might have to go and check through the Foreign Affairs ministry.”

    It’s tough being a casual PM when you need to know who you’re supporting in all this killing that is going on in the Middle East huh? Probably would have been wise to get a clear briefing before Vance asked the question. Probably didn’t expect a NZ journalist to casually ask it, I expect.

    Now if we weren’t in Iraq (as the price of being in ‘The Club’) supporting troops supported by Iran, who are fighting Daesh, Key wouldn’t be in a pickle explaining why we may or may not support Saudi Arabia in Yemen (who also have Daesh ‘assisting’) blowing up rebels supported by Iran.

    Lucky he can wing it with the Security Council thing *phew*.

    • Weepus beard 2.1

      It’s Key’s own “Hey Clint”, moment.

    • vto 2.2

      what?

      how?

      crazy

      alarming

      casual

      loser

    • rawshark-yeshe 2.3

      baby cheeses. what could possibly go wrong ?

    • jenny kirk 2.4

      I just long for a PM who knows what’s happening in NZ, in the world, and what NZ”s position is on all things, and can talk “off the cuff” about anything, and with authority. We had one of those PMs once – she was called Helen Clark. And I’m hoping we’ll have another one soon in Andrew Little. A PM who won’t make us cringe, and who won’t sound like a dork all the time !

      • miravox 2.4.1

        Agree Jenny

        A PM who recognises that the position is a professional one, not a celebrity one.
        A PM who recognises a country is not a corporation
        A PM who recognises Geopolitics is not about marketing

  2. Clemgeopin 3

    There is important thought provoking information in the following 25 minute video regarding education, schools, standards testing, charter schools,
    different agendas, revolt etc.

    Hope you will find time to view it as you may find the information very useful.

    • ianmac 3.1

      Yes Clem. Watched it yesterday. Very valuable and red flag for NZ.

    • logie97 3.2

      Thanks Clemgeopin.
      Anyone with an interest in the way our education system is headed should view this but particularly:
      Parents with young families.
      Senior school students looking to make teaching a career.

      Then the Joe Blo voters who have been coerced by the ministry/ministers/political parties into believing that the New Zealand education system is broken and needs to be fixed …

      … and be aware of the real agenda behind the education reforms.

  3. Tautoko Mangō Mata 4

    This NAct government hate democracy!

    Nick Smith is trying to push through his half appointed ECAN council scheme as mentioned in March. To refresh your memory
    see ” Democratic ECan “carries too many risks” says Nick Smith”
    http://i.stuff.co.nz/the-press/news/67438119/Democratic-ECan-carries-too-many-risks-says-Nick-Smith.

    Meanwhile Kaipara carries on with its Commissioners who were reappointed until 2016
    http://www.propbd.co.nz/kaipara-commissioners-reappointed-until-2016/

    This link gives an inside view of how this is working out and how the Commissioners engineered an “award” .

    Appointments on tertiary and teachers councils, legislation passed under urgency, short periods allowed for submissions, hiding the text of the TPPA….and on it goes.
    No more!

    • vto 4.1

      Democratic ECan “carries too many risks” says Nick Smith

      too many risks for the selfish farmers hell bent on grabbing as much of the environment as they can to stuff into their greedy gobs

    • Rosie 4.2

      Oh wow! Theres an image of twisted sisters “we’re not gonna take it” in Tautoko Mango Mata’s post.
      Well over a thousand of us had a massive sing along to this at the anti TPPA rally in Wellington last month. It was AWESOME!!!

  4. Sanctuary 5

    The jocks on radio sport were disagreeing about tailgate this morning. If those dorks are split on the issue, you know it’s hurt Key’s image right in his heartland.

  5. grumpystilskin 6

    Darren Watson’s follow up to planet key:
    I got your office right here.

    You can support his music at http://www.darrenwatson.bandcamp.com

  6. felix 7

    Is it true that all of the women travelling with Key to Saudi Arabia are required to cover up?

    If so, why? Women on official visits from other countries don’t, so the directive can only have come from our end.

    Why is John Key making NZ women behave as second-class citizens?

    • Clashman 7.1

      Its a trial run for home.
      Any female with a pony/pig tail will be required to remove them or cover up in this fashion to spare the great leader from temptation.

    • TheContrarian 7.2

      The only thing I can find is that his wife will cover up. Nothing about it being a requirement or anything about anybody else in his contingent.

      • felix 7.2.1

        Saw it here: http://www.newstalkzb.co.nz/news/world/bronagh-key-will-wear-headscarf-in-saudi/

        It doesn’t say how many women are on the mission, or who is placing the expectation on them.

        The women travelling on John Key’s trade mission to the Gulf will be expected to cover up in the style of Islam when they visit Saudi Arabia later today.

        • TheContrarian 7.2.1.1

          So when you said “Why is John Key making NZ women behave as second-class citizens?” you actually meant “Is John Key making NZ women behave as second-class citizens?”

          • felix 7.2.1.1.1

            I presume it’s his call. If not him I think we should know who, don’t you?

            It’s not a shopping trip after all. They’re representing the people of NZ on the world stage, so it’s supposedly our values on display.

            Don’t you think we should know who is deciding to tell the world that the values of the people of NZ are compatible with wrapping women in sheets to appease murderous religious bigots?

            Hopefully it’s someone accountable to the electorate.

            • TheContrarian 7.2.1.1.1.1

              Pretty sure Helen Clark did the same in Iran so it’s not without precedent.

              • felix

                If so that’s appalling.

                Also I found this: http://www.3news.co.nz/nznews/bronagh-key-to-comply-with-saudi-arabia-dress-code-2015042717

                So it looks like it’s Key’s call, although it isn’t very specific regarding who he had the discussion with, and we still don’t know how many women are expected to cover their filthy selves in our name.

                In the United Arab Emirates, where the Prime Minster is currently visiting, the Abaya is common.

                But in neighbouring Saudi Arabia it is compulsory and Mrs Key will comply.

                “We had a discussion about that, in the end I think it’s a matter of accepting and appreciating their culture,” says Mr Key.

                Mr Key is talking about a culture in which women aren’t even allowed to drive and will only get to vote in local elections for the first time this year.

                Saudi Arabia also executes people by beheading.

              • Tracey

                My partner was required by her employer ( a public organisation) to cover up when a group of saudis were visiting her workplace in Auckland, New Zealand.

                • felix

                  So when John Key says “it’s a matter of accepting and appreciating their culture,” that applies to us as both guest and host?

                  I find that highly disturbing.

              • Weepus beard

                “Clark did it too”.

                • TheContrarian

                  Well, no, I don’t care if Clark did it, Bronagh does it, or whatever.

                  Just pointing out there is precedent.

            • weka 7.2.1.1.1.2

              Not all Saudis are murderous religious bigots. And the women going might choose to dress in ways that facilitate their work there (the article you link has an interesting bit about women’s culture).

              Still, I’d be interested to know who made the decision, why, and whether the women have a choice.

              • felix

                I didn’t say all Saudis are murderous religious bigots. I said we are appeasing murderous religious bigots.

                • weka

                  Yes, I know that felix, but I was highlighting that there may be valid reasons for women to cover up that aren’t just about that appeasement.

                  • rawshark-yeshe

                    love to know if you can find them weka !

                    • weka

                      Sure, have a read of felix’s original link. The women delegate talks about how she gets to work with the women in Saudi in ways that the men can’t, and I’m guessing that respecting local customs is part of that.

                      I googled saudi +abaya and most of the photos looked like head and body coverings, not face coverings. I can’t really see the problem with that if that’s true. Not too different from expectations around what NZ business women have to wear. Note, I am talking about the delegates, not Saudi women who have no choice and who face severe cultural and legal penalties for not obeying.

                      https://www.google.co.nz/search?q=saudi+abaya&num=100&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=R9s-VYmkLYWxmAWC7YGQCw&ved=0CC0Q7Ak&biw=1639&bih=926

                      Have a read of what Muslim women say about head, face and body coverings within their own cultures, it’s enlightening.

                    • rawshark-yeshe

                      weka .. still has the tone of appeasement, doesn’t it ? sure does for me. it’s really a ‘do this, or else’.

                    • weka

                      I’m not sure what you mean. Who is saying do this or else?

                      Have you read what Muslim women, esp feminists say about head and face coverings?

                  • Murray Rawshark

                    In the case of women executives, the valid reason is to make a quid at any cost.

                    • weka

                      In this situation you are probably right, and I have no reason to trust that the woman delegate being quoted is not part of Team Key. But in general if we are to send delegates there, I would rather that there were women as part of the team than just sending a bunch of men in suits who will almost certainly fail to graps the issues around women’s culture.

              • joe90

                Still, I’d be interested to know who made the decision, why, and whether the women have a choice.

                No choice.

                The guardianship law strips individual women of their personal
                autonomy by placing them under the custody of their closest male
                relative

                Kelly Le Benger

                • weka

                  felix’s original comment suggested that some visiting dignitaries don’t (eg Michelle Obama).

                  • joe90

                    Perhaps Michelle Obama’s closest male relative didn’t think she should cover up.

                  • felix

                    Based on this:

                    Headscarves are required for women under Saudi law, but exceptions are made for foreigners, with many seeing Mrs Obama’s decision as a protest against the treatment of females in the strictly Islamic nation.

                    […]

                    The likes of Princes Diana and Condoleezza Rice also decided against covering their heads when visiting Saudi Arabia.

                    So not compulsory for foreigners, if that’s accurate.

                    Which still leaves us with the question of whether the (three?) women on the NZ trip were allowed to decide how to dress themselves or not.

                    • rawshark-yeshe

                      Bronagh just ain’t in that league of awareness, more is the pity.

                    • weka

                      “Which still leaves us with the question of whether the (three?) women on the NZ trip were allowed to decide how to dress themselves or not.”

                      Yep, that’s the one.

                    • Clemgeopin

                      I suspect that this time, the Saudis made it compulsory for ALL WOMEN to cover their heads for their own safety, knowing that a notorious hair puller was also part of this delegation.

                  • Tracey

                    That suggests you have to have VERY powerful backing to safely exercise free will, doesn’t it?

                    • felix

                      Well yeah, I guess you have to wonder why the only examples given happen to be three of the most powerful women of their time.

                    • weka

                      which comment are you replying to?

                    • Tracey

                      weka… the one that said michele obama wore what she wanted.

                      felix

                      yup. and a nz ceo basically says i will wear it cos otherwise i wont get the bidnis but doesnt have the courage to actually say it

                    • weka

                      would be interesting to see who else has refused to cover their head and body historically. Also, is Saudi one of the countries that introduced the abaya in more recent times?

              • Tracey

                ” in ways that facilitate their work ” – so how does us trading with them, facilitate change if when we work with them we accede to their culture?

                • weka

                  I disagree with our trade relations with them. I’m also not suggesting that we accede to the everything about their culture.

        • greywarshark 7.2.1.2

          @ felix
          Radionz 7.30 ish, comment on human rights from about 1.40 mins and the woman spoke about 2 mins in.
          There was a mention of human rights to some of the trade reps who said – one male Well, uh, no comment. A women from Maven said it’s very complex, and who are we to say what the Islamic position is and whether it’s right or wrong?

          More on Maven.
          http://consultmaven.co.nz/nz/about-us#about-us
          This perhaps reflects Maven’s approach as an independent business problem-solver with a strong connection to government. I have often wondered where our government dreams up the lacking policies that we get foisted on us. Perhaps these are the beavers chopping down our long term forests and turning them into leaky buildings!

          Maven is an independent strategy and operations consultancy that was founded in 1998. Our head office is in Wellington, New Zealand….

          Maven has a strong government focus. We have delivered major government reform projects across many sectors including Education, Health, Justice and Transport. Maven has led over 160 projects and assignments for more than 40 public sector clients in the past seven years alone. These range from small-scale one-off assignments, up to advising on projects over $200m in value….

          We apply a sense of balance to the way we operate. We think rigorously, harness the right disciplines and provide insight – our intellectual side. This is balanced by our emotional side – our capacity to be passionate, empathetic and intuitive….

          (Could be a selling spiel of high-class prostitutes catering for the corporate and civil servant trade. Sounds just what men would look for – passionate, empathetic and intuitive.)

          • Murray Rawshark 7.2.1.2.1

            Filthy parasitic troughers using up public funding that could be spent on something useful. Consultants are an absolute curse.

      • Bearded Git 7.2.2

        @The Contrarian
        But I thought I heard a couple of days ago that Michelle Obama didn’t cover up when she accompanied her hubby to the land of the beheaders (and I seem to remember 14 out of 17 9/11 attackers were Saudi).

      • s y d 7.2.3

        From Radio NZ…..

        ‘Lesley Kennedy, chief executive of Maven International, one of just two women on the delegation, was asked about women’s rights concerns.
        “I think it’s a very hard topic to actually get into, I don’t think that we can comment really too much because it’s very political, it’s very very complex.
        “And you know, who are we to say from an Islamic perspective what’s right and what’s wrong – we’re New Zealanders – we have our own views on the world.
        “We can’t go in somewhere else and say, ‘Well, you should do it this way’,” she said.
        The other woman in the delegation, Michelle Boag from the New Zealand Middle East Business Council, declined to comment about the trip altogether.’

        So 3 women…

        • TheContrarian 7.2.3.1

          Michelle Boag went? *shudder*…She’s an awful woman.

        • felix 7.2.3.2

          3 women but they only count 2.

          See, it works. They’re becoming invisible already.

          • TheContrarian 7.2.3.2.1

            Wait, what? I think your math is off.

            There are two woman on the delegation, Boag and Kennedy.

            • felix 7.2.3.2.1.1

              Ah I see. So how many women traveling in the whole party?

              • TheContrarian

                From what we know – 3.

                Bronagh, Kennedy and Boag

              • veutoviper

                There are probably more than Bronagh, Kennedy and Boag.

                Key’s press secretary (whose name I do not know – blonde, shorthair) is also on the trip, and Andrea Vance is also covering it for Fairfax. So that is at least two more.

                Andrea has some good photos on her Twitter account, https://twitter.com/avancenz

                • seeker

                  “Key’s press secretary……. blonde short hair”.
                  Her name is Sia Aston. She was a tv3 reporter until about 2009.

                  • veutoviper

                    Thanks – I should have known that; had checked it out some months ago, so again thanks.

                    • seeker

                      You are welcome vv. I notice she keeps her hair short probably as a precaution against any ‘horsing around’ because she seems to be permanently at key’s side.

          • greywarshark 7.2.3.2.2

            Perhaps women start morphing into men the more RW they are. I have read that male hormones intensify in men who are in positions of authority, power and decision making. Perhaps that happens in females also – the smaller percentage of male hormone expands. Think Matrons in hospitals, Prime Ministers – Jenny did not have much female empathy, Finance Minister Ruthless etc.

    • Skinny 7.3

      We (NZ) should not be doing any trade deals with these scumbag Arabs who have a shocking human rights record. Of course John Key is doing America’s bidding not ours, he is just roping us into it along the way.

      Key’s excuse I presume is out of respect for the culture of a Country your visiting. Here in New Zealand we have a rather sexist cultural rule relating to women’s speaking rights, which should be thrown out the door.

      I remember well Helen Clark refused to wear a dress/skirt and didn’t curtsey for the Queen, bloody good job too.

      • marty mars 7.3.1

        ” scumbag Arabs who have a shocking human rights record”

        Is there any country which doesn’t have a shocking human rights record. Is it just that their record is more shocking?

        Is our record really so pure and unshocking?

        I don’t think calling people scumbag Arabs is very nice or accurate – seems like a bit of bigotry seeping out of the nappy there.

        • Skinny 7.3.1.1

          Point taken Marty.

          *Correction Scumbag United Arab Emirates, the ruling class oil barrons. There is a good reason other countries don’t have trade deals with the UEA, they are right up there in terms of breeching human rights.

          • greywarshark 7.3.1.1.1

            Another point Skinny – we have a need to trade. We can’t be too picky. John will put kneeling pads on to help his busioness friends and he doesn’t care about anyone else, neither suffering humanity there or here.

            Our economy has been shaped around exports and hollowed out in the middle. Easter was just few weeks ago – we are like a hollow easter egg, scrumptious for those who are fast eaters and bits of tinfoil on the floor after. Just enough for a play hat. So gladhand John, and go dry while you are there though they may loosen their strict rules for the sake of a slightly sozzled, well-oiled better deal.

  7. Rosie 8

    I wasn’t around last week for the discussion of ponytailgate.

    In the one thousand plus comments on the issue was there a discussion around the potential for Key to resign over his persistent abuse of Amanda Bailey?

    Simply put, I believe he needs to go because a society should not tolerate or accept such abusive behaviour of their leader. If we do, then we have truly lost our morality and abandoned our belief in the standards expected of the PM. In fact standing down is the least he can do as his first step towards making amends to his victim.

    Is there a danger that this abuse will become “last weeks news”? How do we keep up the pressure to hold the PM to account, and do this in a way that keeps respect for Amanda Bailey at the centre of any action?

    • vto 8.1

      Aaron Gilmore stood down for abusing waiting staff

      Roger Sutton stood down for abusing staff

      John Key has no choice

      • Rosie 8.1.1

        Agreed vto. Saw your comment last night on Open Mike and responded. Stinky hypocrisy.

    • weka 8.2

      I can’t see it happening at the moment Rosie. Smile and Wave will ride this out. And it’s not like he hasn’t done resignable offenses before.

      Unless, the complaint to the HRC and the private prosecution go ahead. McCready is doing both, but Marilyn Waring said there were moves to approach the HRC too. I’m not sure if that’s a separate thing. You could email her and ask?

      https://www.aut.ac.nz/profiles/social-sciences/professor/marilyn-waring

      • vto 8.2.1

        “I can’t see it happening”

        Why not? What is Key going to do? Continue standing in the middle of the field yelling “nyah nyah I’m not playing by the rules anymore nyah nyah ….. ya gonna have to throw me out” ?

        Like the biggest bully in the playground always does?

        It would be in keeping I guess.

        The biggest wanker bully in the school

        • weka 8.2.1.1

          tbh, I’m looking at his behaviour to Bailey in the context of the many other things he does. The man is a serial liar, why hasn’t he resigned over any number of instances? To be clear, his behaviour towards Bailey is very bad, and there is a scale here that is new (both in obvious illegality, and in how much international attention and ridicule he’s getting), but I still think he will survive this until there is a dip in the polls. That might still happen if there is legal action taken against him.

          btw, I’m not saying he shouldn’t resign, I’m saying I don’t think he will at this stage. The good news is that there is no going back from this, and it will haunt him for the rest of his term. Hopefully that will impact on National too.

          I also think there is a distinct probability that more of these kinds of things will happen and come to light. At some point a chunk of the MSM will need to call for his resignation, and then we might see something happen.

          • vto 8.2.1.1.1

            Yep sure I see all of that…. but it just reinforces his place as the biggest bully wanker on the schoolground giving the rules, the teachers, and all the pupils the middle finger….

            such a fine example he presents week after week.

            john key has become the country’s biggest loser – a complete loser

          • s y d 8.2.1.1.2

            IMO what passes for comedy on telly is good indication of how things may pan out.
            I thought it interesting that the generally JK cheerleading ‘7 Days’ show gently mocked the PM and then had Judith Collins on who was asked a series of patsy questions
            (notable exception being the Irishman who asked Judith if honourable had a different meaning in NZ, which had the audience gasping at his impertinence!)

            • Rosie 8.2.1.1.2.1

              Ed Byrne was great when he said that, and gave her a hard stare as well. Paul Ego really had Judith Collins on her toes – loved the “whaleoil on your skin for your beauty routine” bit. I don’t think the questions were patsy at all – check out the body language and expression of Ego. Collins only laughed along because she was nervous and alone and knew she was outnumbered.
              I don’t see much in the way of JK cheerleading either, they are more JK jeering these days. They’ve changed their tune.

              Wilson Dixon ridiculed Key during his stand up on Comedy Gala on tv3 on Sunday, and did it really well.

              However, we are largely bereft of political satire in this country and one weekend’s worth of lols isn’t going to influence much in the way pressuring Key to stand down.

        • Peter Thomson 8.2.1.2

          Re your last sentence. The well-known, dismissive gesture (clenched fist jerked up and down) seems appropriate to hair-pulling. Perhaps it should be applied to Johnny Boy more frequently in future.

        • Tracey 8.2.1.3

          he has lowered the bar so low for standards (deliberately in my opinion) that just what would be behaviour deserving of resignation?

        • Draco T Bastard 8.2.1.4

          Why not? What is Key going to do? Continue standing in the middle of the field yelling “nyah nyah I’m not playing by the rules anymore nyah nyah ….. ya gonna have to throw me out” ?

          Yeah, pretty much. It’s about all he can do and so legal means have to be used to remove him. Apparently there are actually legal means to do so in this case as many times there aren’t.

          Thing is that if he resigns National have a high probability of no longer being in government. The Northland buy-election proves that another buy-election in Helensville could go the same way and for the same reasons. Sure, they won’t have Winston to stand against National’s sock puppet but I’m sure you’ll find that NZ1st do have some good people as candidates that could stand there.

          Losing Helensville would drop the National led government down to the point where they couldn’t govern and so we’d either get a government switch or another general election which would also result in National losing the treasury benches.

          • Rosie 8.2.1.4.1

            Drax, could he resign as PM but still stay on as MP for Helensville to retain National’s power?

            • Draco T Bastard 8.2.1.4.1.1

              He could do that but that would, IMO, make the present legal cases that appear to be forming up over his actions have even more standing in court. Essentially, he would have admitted to harassing the woman and that means that he would almost certainly be forced from the electorate seat.

              Of course, if those court cases do make it to court he’s likely to be forced from the seat anyway but by not admitting anything he can make out as if nothings wrong for a little while longer. Same as Phillip Field did.

      • Rosie 8.2.2

        “And it’s not like he hasn’t done resignable offenses before.”

        Thats part of the problem – each time he gets away with inappropriate behaviour for a PM he seems to strengthen his protection from public and media scrutiny. He has yet to be held to account or investigated for his role in Dirty Politics for instance. It’s like we have become immune to his unacceptable behaviour.

        That’s why I worry, that like every other KeyFail before, ponytailgate will disappear, like “last weeks news” and just dissolve into the murky pool of KeyFails and we react with a collective shrug and sigh.

        This week I’ll be able to catch up with the HRC complaint (thank for the Marilyn Waring link). The McCready private prosecution is another thing. I’m uncomfortable about that as I wonder about the motivation, as well as the victim being sidelined by some one elses agenda. I don’t think he sought Ms Bailey’s view, consent or blessing did he?

        But, like you weka, I don’t see him resigning either. But in the meantime, theres nothing to stop anyone calling for it. I don’t think anyone has though have they? I don’t know, I could have missed it.

        If there hasn’t then there’s something very wrong with us, that we would accept or tolerate persistent psychological and physical abuse by our leader, of a woman in an unequal power position.

        • vto 8.2.2.1

          “If there hasn’t then there’s something very wrong with us”

          yep

        • rawshark-yeshe 8.2.2.2

          If he is found guilty in a court of sexual harassment, he will be required to stand down. In fact Marilyn Waring suggested last week with Kim Hill on Morning Report that even while he is being investigated he should be stood down.,

          Marilyn is white-hot angry and I think we can be sure she is working on this, albeit in the background. Maybe we just need a little patience for now ?

          Link for you … well worth the listen:

          Marilyn Waring on Morning Report http://www.radionz.co.nz/national/programmes/morningreport/audio/201751578/political-scientist-and-former-mp-comment-on-ponytailgate

          • Murray Rawshark 8.2.2.2.1

            Oooh, she is angry. I agree with what she said. I also think that the sort of people who make up the NAct party no longer have any of the qualities of decent behaviour that some of them used to have, at least on the surface. It has turned into a party of outright bullies and would be thugs. They can’t even pretend to be civilised any more.

          • Rosie 8.2.2.2.2

            Thanks very much for that link rawshark-yeshe. Marilyn Waring was scorchingly clear on her position, it was great to listen to.

            So John Key’s actions are in breach of section 62 of the human rights act. He has broken the law.

            This just can’t be allowed to go away. Hopefully you’re right yeshe, and at least Marilyn Waring will stay with it.

            • rawshark-yeshe 8.2.2.2.2.1

              I have a deep faith that many things are going on in the background … we will all keep watching.

              • Rosie

                Your faith is reassuring yeshe 🙂

                • rawshark-yeshe

                  I have rarely, if ever, heard Marilyn Waring so angry … fuel to rocket for Key !! And hey, she brought down Muldoon and this little casual greedy nasty creepy fella is really nothing by comparison 🙂

            • veutoviper 8.2.2.2.2.2

              Rosie, I think that there is probably a lot going on in the background that may not surface immediately.

              Essentially there are three main strands to the whole situation as it currently stands:

              – Key’s actual treatment of Amanda which may end up in charges of assault, or harassment

              – Her employers’ lack of providing a safe workplace

              – Rachel Glucina’s actions (and those of the Herald) in relation to journalists’code of conduct and the complaints to the Press Council.

              There also a couple of side issues – eg. the role of Key’s police (DPS) minders, Key’s other recorded instances of Key fingering children’s hair, Key’s credibility on the international stage, etc.

              There were hints late last week that Amanda Bailey was possibly taking advice etc from the Unite Union and lawyers*. Yesterday, certain lawyers were also offering help in respect of Press Council complaints – see my comment here http://thestandard.org.nz/open-mike-27042015/#comment-1006278

              McCready has rushed in and apparently was going to be filing papers in the Auckland District Court this morning for Key to be charged with assault: http://www.nzherald.co.nz/politics/news/article.cfm?c_id=280&objectid=11439237.

              While admiring his intentions, I personally have reservations about McCready trying to lead in this regard, as IMO any legal action must be Amanda’s decision and I am not sure this is the case – that is, that she has agreed to McCready’s actions. I have utter admiration for Amanda going public with this; but I also would fully understand if she decided not to pursue the matter through the courts.

              * Unfortunately I cannot relocate where I read this to provide a link, but the same article said that she has also had offers of employment.

              • Rosie

                Thank you Veutoviper for that concise summary of the multiple problems with this situation.

                re the employer’s duty to provide a safe workplace. I had been thinking about the Health and Safety Amendment Act 2002. There is a provision within this Act that covers minimising stressors in the workplace. It’s difficult in hospo and service industries when that stressor is a customer, as there is an immediate power imbalance but when it’s the PM that power imbalance is magnified, however, we all have a right to carry out our tasks in a physically and psychologically safe workplace. Key made Amanda Bailey’s workplace unsafe for her.

                I haven’t got time to find the exact clause but the general functions of the Act are here

                http://www.dol.govt.nz/hs/law/quickguide/ammendment.shtml

                I did get a glance at your post yesterday about potential legal assistance with the press council complaint. I hope this goes ahead too.

                Yourself and yeshe believe there is more going on in the background than we can see right now, and I trust the wisdom of the two of you. I think yeshe’s right, some patience might be needed. (on my behalf that is)

                • rawshark-yeshe

                  rosie … just to say I am running on pure gut instinct and women’s intuition on this … I don’t know anything ‘officially’ … but my intuition is basically official enough for me !!

                  • Rosie

                    Well, I always look at wisdom as a blend of knowledge gained over years of learning and astute observation combined with tested and true intuition, part of which is pure gut instinct.

                    You may well have good reason to feel this situation will have the light of justice shine on it, all in good time 🙂

                    • rawshark-yeshe

                      😀

                      supposed to be a friendly grin but these new emoticons seem to have other ideas !

        • weka 8.2.2.3

          “If there hasn’t then there’s something very wrong with us, that we would accept or tolerate persistent psychological and physical abuse by our leader, of a woman in an unequal power position.”

          One of the things that Bailey may have gifted to the country is the baldfaced truth that we are letting NZ be led by people like this. I understand what you are saying about Key, and his resignation should happen and would also be a great boon for the country. I’m also mindful of it’s not just Key, there are many other people in the government like this, and not just the National Party, they’re in the civil service as well in positions of power.

          I’m in two minds about McCready. I have an inherent mistrust of private prosecutions but suspect that’s a hangover from the days when the justice system at least attempted to do the right thing. In this case, Bailey did a powerful political act by telling her story in the way she did. Not political as in ‘ooh, left wing blog’, but political in that she stood up and spoke truth to power and she did it on her own terms, and she did this about gender in a soceity that routinely culturally sanctions abuse based on gender. That is quite a feat. However political acts like that that are well beyond the personal don’t get to stay within indiviudal control. I don’t know enough about McCready to have a sense of him, but I hope he is doing this for the right reasons.

          • Rosie 8.2.2.3.1

            Hi weka, those people you speak of who are in power and abusing power, I wonder, are they simply being empowered and somewhat encouraged by Key’s continual ability to get away with it?
            He is a role model and sets the bar, as a leader. All the more reason for him to resign, to set an example and reset that bar.

            I understand your point that Amanda Bailey’s telling of her story is a political act. I felt she was speaking for all women who have been abused when she told her story – it’s her story alone but there are so many abused women in NZ alongside her, invisibly, in her words. Hence I understand your view that her story is universal and beyond her own control now that it is public.

            I just hope that her story gets treated with respect by those wanting Key held to account (whoever they may be) and that we remain mindful that Amanda Bailey is the reason we want to see justice done, and not just use her story to get rid of Key for the sake of getting rid of Key. That would be demeaning to the victim.

  8. saveNZ 9

    Thick, black oil washed up on properties as far as Mangatapu last night after a spill in the port yesterday – with fears for surrounding wildlife.

    The oil was sighted from the cove between Turret Rd and Mangatapu to the Tauranga Marina and the Port of Tauranga.

    Who is going to pay for the clean up? I’m pretty sure like with Sky Sore, any buddy buddy economic developments from the Nats to big Business, seem to somehow cost the tax payers, socially and economically for the ideology.

    Thanks Nats in particular Simon Bridges for destroying our country!

  9. sckiwireddevil 10

    So much looking forward to todays Question Time. I realize Donkey wont be there, but Upston should be, and she will get the first grilling I hope. Winnie and Andy will be in their element today. Give em heaps, the GNAT pricks.

  10. Chooky 11

    phillip ure will love this…

    http://www.radionz.co.nz/national/programmes/ninetonoon/audio/201752159/australian-poet-and-animal-activist-david-brooks

    “David Brooks is an award-winning Australian poet, novelist, essayist and short fiction writer. He’s also an animal activist, committed vegan and says his latest book of poetry is a way of exposing inherent cruelty and prejudice against animals. He’s the recipient of an Australian Council for the Arts fellowship for last year – given to one “outstanding, established” writer. He was Associate Professor of Australian Literature and Director of the graduate writing program at the University of Sydney until 2013 and is Co-editor of the literary journal Southerly. He talks to Kathryn from his farm in the Blue Mountains among rescued animals”.

  11. greywarshark 12

    There was an excellent item on racial harrassment in Toronto from a Canadian man of Sierra Leone background on Whoar (search for The Skin). He sounds a really good guy but as well as his story he has specific facts and figures and says that he has been interrogated by police, in the street, more than 50 times because he is black. Police in Toronto scrutinise blacks all the tine, stop them in the street and in their home neighbourhoods, question them and write down personal details. It is like South African surveillance in apartheid.

    And so the crime statistics that put blacks and any particular non-white group high, does that happen because they are being surveilled so closely and everything they do is treated as evidence of a crime in planning or commission? He quotes how they were pulled over on a highway out of town because someone in the car threw a tissue out of the window. He said his father became very scared. I think because it is known that the enforcement officers will lie and get away with undue violent or unreasnable behaviour.

  12. Philip Ferguson 13

    Meanwhile, US cops murder yet another young black male, this time Freddie Gray in Baltimore:
    https://rdln.wordpress.com/2015/04/27/us-the-states-systematic-violence-kills-another-young-black-man/

    Phil

  13. ropata 14

    Bob Jones has re-affirmed his status as an entitled bigoted relic. I hope they aren’t paying that fossil for his latest piece, re-victimising the waitress and minimising Key’s behaviour

    • Visubversa 14.1

      The Herald is paying him to be clickbait. He generates page visits and comments. More agin him than for him but The Herald does not care.

    • sckiwireddevil 14.2

      Yeah, just read it, has always been a wanker, and his latest rant confirms it. What a tosser.

      • mac1 14.2.1

        Bob Jones used to say that the Left had no sense of humour.

        With Bob’s last effort, I’d have to say that the Right has no sense of honour.

    • freedom 14.3

      “re-victimising the waitress” and anyone who was forced to involuntarily revisit circumstances of their own painful histories that were likely reflected in the graphic misogyny of the opening paragraph.

      That the Herald would allow such a paragraph to be published speaks volumes.

  14. b waghorn 15

    http://i.stuff.co.nz/business/money/67973985/Young-New-Zealanders-get-a-voice-in-Ruth-Roger-and-Me
    A young chap with a big future , young people might get of there Arse! and vote for one of there own telling it how it is. If I was running a political party I’d go have a coffee with him.

  15. Philip Ferguson 16

    Saudi Arabia should be one great embarrassment for the NZ government – not just this one, but the Labour one before.

    Our “Saudi friends” have already carried out 40 public beheadings this year – Key is appalled when IS do a couple of beheadings, the state does 40 and he’s not troubled at all (and certainly not trloubled enugh to go to war over it!).

    Women are legally banned from driving, have to cover up in most public places – I think there’s one city where it’s a bit less repressive – don’t have the vote in national elections, have only just won the vote in local elections – and, of course, national elections don’t mean much because the whole place is run by the “royal” family and their hangers-on, and the Saudis persistently sponsor the most reactionary Islamic fundamentalist armed groups in the Middle East and Africa, and probably parts of Asia as well.

    The Saudi state was, of course, one of the outcomes of the glorious Allied victory in World War 1. In fact, there were two main rival factions in the Arabian peninsula, the one T.E. Lawrence was involved with and the Sauds. The one Lawrence was involved with was less reactionary and less fundamentalist Wahhabi. But the Brits decided to back the Sauds and, with British help, they triumphed and established a Wahhabi state. The Saud family and their cohorts could do anything they liked because they were the Western powers’ chief allies in the region, along with Israel. And they became more important after the fall of another key American stooge, the shah of Iran.

    There’s a good piece on Redline about the Arabian peninsula. It can be read here: https://rdln.wordpress.com/2014/05/03/arabian-peninsula-capitalisms-contradictions-in-a-nutshell/

    Phil

    • Chooky 16.1

      +100

    • rawshark-yeshe 16.2

      +100 thx Phil.

    • Lanthanide 16.3

      “Our “Saudi friends” have already carried out 40 public beheadings this year – Key is appalled when IS do a couple of beheadings, the state does 40 and he’s not troubled at all (and certainly not trloubled enugh to go to war over it!).”

      This is a poor argument. IS weren’t beheading their own citizens who had broken laws, they were beheading citizens of other countries, to make a political statement and as an attempt at blackmail.

      The US also executes dozens of people each year, but NZ doesn’t seem to do a lot about that either.

  16. Charles 17

    Does anyone know why or how Deborah Cone Hill is being paid to disintergrate in a national (online) paper? Before anyone asks, I’m not actually all that concerned about her. Just thought I might be missing part of the back-story, like, is it just a parody, or does journalism school now teach this stuff?

    • Tracey 17.1

      I share your quizzicalnesslessness Charles. Have you noticed that all these folks paid to have an opinion, really just have variations of the same broad set of opinions?

      • Charles 17.1.1

        I have indeed.

        • Tracey 17.1.1.1

          And when some of them finally see a part of the world they have been denying even existed it is like they are Da Vinci discovering something amazing and everyone must marvel at their epiphany?

    • Colonial Rawshark 17.2

      Dmitry Orlov on the limits of western propaganda

      How the MSM and its establishmentarians define and limit the boundaries of acceptable political economic discourse. NZ gets a special mention.

      1. Self-censorship. Those who have previously tried to get the truth out no matter out become more reticent and prone to equivocation when reporting on “hot” issues.

      2. Topic-avoidance. They start avoiding certain “hot” issues that they feel are most likely to get them into trouble.

      3. Response to harassment. A few incidents of mild official harassment cause certain blogs to start watering down their content, or pulling down content in response to harassment.

      4. Blacklisting. The officials start censoring content on a case-by-case basis, blocking or shutting down certain internet sites that they consider seditious.

      5. Blocking communications. The officials start dealing with the “hard cases” of uncooperative individuals who remain, shutting down their communications by disabling their cell phones, shutting down internet access, and by imposing travel restrictions so that the “hard cases” are forced to remain in places where they can be watched.

      6. Detention. Those found to be truly uncooperative, who try to circumvent the restrictions, are rounded up and shipped off to the above-mentioned camps.

      http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-04-27/limits-propaganda

      • Chooky 17.2.1

        +100 …harassment of investigative journalist Nicky Hager is a case in point….and the attempt to shut down the John Campbell Live television programme by jonkey’s friends

        • ropata 17.2.1.1

          And dissing Glenn Greenwald.
          Also Bradley Ambrose of the Teapot Tapes kerfuffle.
          And Whaleoil’s attacks on David Fisher after he turned against Slater’s slime.
          And the demise of TVNZ7.
          And the censoring of a Youtube parody video at election time.
          And the arrest of Dotcom and censoring of Megaupload without due process.

          And the elevation of dense egotists (Hosking, Henry) to popular media spots.
          And the lack of interest in giving straight answers at Question Time.
          And the glamour and media power of the MPAA & RIAA
          And the lack of transparency around SkyCity, Crosby Textor, Donghua Liu

          That’s the Dirty Politics machine in action.

  17. Puckish Rogue 18

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11439651

    While I don’t want another trial over this (as its been shown that the Dot Cons were, surprise, surprise lying out of their teeth) because its a waste of money I would like it to be proven just how big a liars the Dot Cons really are and how innocent Banks is

    • Tracey 18.1

      Do you believe that Banks really didn’t know who the cheque was from? Leaving aside whether it meets a criminal standard, hand on heart, do you believe that Banks was not trying to avoid potential legal liability by not reading the form?

      When he was being paid a huge fee to be an Executive Director of Hujlich, he also didn’t read stuff…

      I will let the Courts decide, and will accept their final determination of the facts but morally do you really think Banks is squeaky in all this?

      • Puckish Rogue 18.1.1

        Squeaky clean no but in comparison to politicians in general then yes but really it shouldn’t have come to this in the first place

        • felix 18.1.1.1

          Why shouldn’t it?

          If he’s dirty, and you admit that he is, then let’s clean him out.

          • Puckish Rogue 18.1.1.1.1

            But hes not dirty, Dot Con and his wife were caught lying

            • Tracey 18.1.1.1.1.1

              so he didn’t sign the electoral form without reading it first? he didn’t take fees for being an executive director but didn’t read anything? he wasn’t fined for having 3 children on the back of his jetski?

              It’s not compared to other politicians PR, it’s compared to the law and the ethics we expect of each other.

              • Puckish Rogue

                Thats all well and good but its about this case not whatever else hes done

                • felix

                  This case is about John Banks signing false declarations so he could pretend he didn’t know who was donating to his election campaign.

                  Do you even read the links you post?

    • rawshark-yeshe 18.2

      “how innocent Banks is” ? i just fell off my chair with laughter.

    • les 18.3

      if you can accept that Banks cannot remember a helicopter ride to a mansion,you can accept anything he says.

    • Draco T Bastard 18.4

      Banks isn’t innocent. He really did sign a document as accurate when it wasn’t. In fact, he’s done it a number of times.

  18. Poission 19

    it is International Workers’ Memorial Day ,one party leader remembered.

    http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/PA1504/S00352/workers-safety-paramount.htm

  19. Charles 20

    Here’s a question for ten (points),

    Q: What exactly does “unemployed by choice” mean in today’s language?

    This is not a trick question. Some of you will likely know. It doesn’t mean retired. Please give context with your answer, thanks.

    • weka 20.1

      I can think of a number of things it could mean, depending on who used it. Why are you asking?

      • Draco T Bastard 20.1.1

        Yep. My first thought was that it was diversion from the governments policies of ~6% unemployment that we’ve had since 1984. People unemployed under such policies aren’t unemployed by choice.

    • TheContrarian 20.2

      Deciding to be unemployed despite having a job one could partake in if so desired?

    • s y d 20.3

      I think you’ll find it is winzspeak for turning down the minimum wage zero hour night shift ‘job’ they have found you at a kiwifruit packhouse 37km from your normal place of residence.
      In choosing to turn down this suitable job offer, you won’ t have met your ‘jobseeker obligations’ and thus your jobseeker support payments will be reduced by 50% (if you have dependents) or stopped completely for 13 weeks.

      You will no longer be unemployed.

      Choice eh.

      • Descendant Of Sssmith 20.3.1

        You can turn down work if it’s not suitable.

        Here’s the guidelines off the WINZ website.

        http://www.workandincome.govt.nz/map/income-support/main-benefits/jobseeker-support/suitable-employment-01.html

        Trial periods are an interesting one.

        Legally a trial period can only exist by mutual agreement and therefore if there’s no agreement to have one there’s no job offer.

        From MBIE website.

        “Trial periods

        Employers can make an offer of employment that includes a trial period of up to 90 days.

        Trial periods are voluntary, and must be agreed in writing and negotiated in good faith as part of the employment agreement.”

        I would think if WINZ are saying that people must take a job that has a trial period then they would be in breach of the voluntary nature of it.

        It might be worth an advocacy group who has some cases raising these issues.
        I would also think that if you had no guarantee of hours eg zero hour contracts then you also would be in the right to say no. There own guidelines also make reference to transport as an issue.

    • Charles 20.4

      It’s officialese in a particular sector, but may have wider meaning. The more contexts I hear of, the better I’ll be able to understand what they’re saying, or implying, or both.

  20. weka 21

    Luddite Journo on consent culture beyond sexual consent, and how we can all look at our personal interactions and how they affect consent.

    A consent culture, I believe, is only something we can work towards imagining at the moment. Because consent culture would make neo-liberal capitalism impossible – why would workers consent to the greedy CEOs having so much? Consent culture would dismantle colonisation and the ongoing harms to indigenous peoples and use negotiation, justice and equity as a basis for sharing space on the earth.

    In addition to organising for consent structurally, in all the ways that happens, we can and should be interrogating the personal spaces where negotiation and power sharing live. We can and should be honest with ourselves about when we are over-riding someone else’s consent. We can and should ask for help from people to listen to us, even when we are having trouble saying what is ok.

    http://thehandmirror.blogspot.co.nz/2015/04/michael-buble-teaches-consent.html

  21. RealBlue 22

    Never heard the term, but I assume it means “Doesnt want to work”. Others, I’m sure, may be able to conflate it to something it isnt.

    • Charles 22.1

      I don’t think so, because “doesn’t want to work” is as ambiguous as “unemployed by choice” – a fixed perspective is required to interpret either phrase. These people may not use the same emphemisms as the group usually associated with the phrase you offer. In fact, it most likely isn’t a euphemism. Think HR speak, and how their words often translate to almost mathematical concepts. Could be like that.

  22. Clemgeopin 23

    John Campbell tweeted this:

    Dear Team CLive, you are incredible! THANK YOU! 1. Campbell Live 419,410 2. 3 News 348,430 3. The X Factor 283,890 4. The Blacklist 174,260— Campbell Live (@CampbellLiveNZ) April 27, 2015

  23. adam 24

    Interesting stuff from Baltimore. These started as protest over a police killing. Friends are saying agent provocateurs turned it violent. As many of the protestors were organised by church groups.

    http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/maryland/baltimore-city/bal-university-of-baltimore-closes-amid-high-school-purge-threat-20150427-story.html#page=1

    https://www.facebook.com/hashtag/freddiegray?source=feed_text&story_id=829210653836349

  24. Draco T Bastard 25

    Native Affairs – Future of Broadcasting – Part 2: Charter

    It’s sad to say but New Zealand no longer has a public broadcaster.

    The National government relieving TVNZ of any of those obligations when it came into power. But there was a time in the not too distant past that the government expected TVNZ to make more than dollars and cents.

    National is not interested in NZ society or culture at all – just that the rich get richer.

  25. Draco T Bastard 26

    The confidence fairy bleeding

    Any Keynesian knows that cutting the deficit in a slump is bad policy. A slump, after all, is defined by a deficiency in total spending. To try to cure it by spending less is like trying to cure a sick person by bleeding.

    So it was natural to ask economist/advocates of bleeding like Harvard’s Alberto Alesina and Kenneth Rogoff how they expected their cure to work. Their answer was that the belief that it would work – the confidence fairy – would ensure its success.

    Didn’t John Key and Blinglish have something to say about fairies at the bottom of the garden?

  26. Puckish Rogue 27

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/68058200/green-mps-say-coalition-with-national-government-off-the-cards

    I hope this was just the reporting because otherwise they sound like a bunch of numpties

    • felix 27.1

      You mean because the correct phrasing would be “off the table”?

      • Puckish Rogue 27.1.1

        Well i don’t know about you but my opinion of journalists is that used car salespeople are more trust-worthy

    • tinfoilhat 27.2

      @PR I was out the meeting it is an accurate reflection but very truncated reproduction of a few of the comments made.

      If you are referring to the comments made by Kevin, I’m not sure what was wrong with him, he was my preferred candidate but was just very off the mark and most unlike his normal self.

      • Puckish Rogue 27.2.1

        More that there seems to be a general consensus that something needs to change, the status quo shouldn’t be maintained and the party needs to grow yet apart from cannibilising Labours vote the only real option is to look at National but thats off the table

        But yeah the space stuff didn’t sound too good

        • weka 27.2.1.1

          Good, I can stop thinking about Tava now he’s making it clear he wants the GP to work with any National govt. Ain’t gin a happen and he’s blown the beyond left right thing.

          • Puckish Rogue 27.2.1.1.1

            Pretty hard to grow and change the status quo without considering National, all they’ve really done is stated they’re keeping the status quo and don’t want to grow and have all but guaranteed Winston to be the king-maker

            No wait let me guess they’re going to appeal to the “missing million”

            • felix 27.2.1.1.1.1

              If you weren’t so obviously concern-trolling I’d explain to you that the Green world-view and philosophy is entirely incompatible with National’s.

              But you are, so there’s no point.

          • Murray Rawshark 27.2.1.1.2

            Yeah. I’d hate to see him in any position of leadership. Wanting to be at the centre of any government? What the hell?

  27. Clemgeopin 28

    Do watch Campbell Live tonight if you can on TV3 at 7 pm.

    Tonight, a special investigation into Gloriavale's finances. 91 full-time workers who don't get paid and assets of $36million.— Campbell Live (@CampbellLiveNZ) April 28, 2015

    And this:

    A reminder for everyone about to drop a tenner on lunch, you can still text NEPAL to 2923 for make an automatic $3 donation. Thank you!— Campbell Live (@CampbellLiveNZ) April 28, 2015

    • Ennui 28.1

      Good, I feel very strongly about this: the buggers turned a million and a half bucks in profit based it appears upon no wages…..then paid no tax because they are registered as a religious group.

      Consequently you and I may have been ripped off for PAYE, and for company tax, who knows re GST.

      On top of that they are run by a convicted time serving sexual offender. Time the IRD did its job.

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