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Open mike 28/07/2011

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, July 28th, 2011 - 71 comments
Categories: open mike - Tags:

Open mike is your post. For announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose.

The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the link to Policy in the banner).

Step right up to the mike…

71 comments on “Open mike 28/07/2011 ”

  1. toad 1

    Perhaps this is more to Glenn Beck’s liking:

    Tampa Liberty School – a summer camp for kids aged 8-12 years old

    The Tampa 912 Project is pleased to introduce the Tampa Liberty School. This part-time summer camp will meet from 9am to noon on July 11-15 at the Paideia School in Temple Terrace. Kids aged 8-12 years old will have fun while learning the principles of liberty, free markets, and limited government. They will also learn the values of personal responsibility, faith, courage, hard work, reverence and thrift.

  2. Seti 2

    Problem is 2 out of 3 of Labour’s own supporters don’t believe in Phil, and less than half support its own economic plan.

    That does not add up to the treasury benches irrespective of party polling.

    [lprent: off topic – moved to open mike. Read the frigging post. ]

  3. Labour is doing exactly what needs to be done to present a clear long term workable alternative

    Except that it’s not working, so something they are doing (or something they are) is not what people want.

    Financial trust gives National edge

    49% of voters think National has the best plan to fix the economy, well ahead of Labour on 17%.

    The news gets worse for Labour, with only 48% of its supporters backing its plan to fix the economy.

    If half of core Labour supporters don’t think the party can deliver on the economy then some people here are fooling themselves.

    [lprent: Off topic. If you want to discuss a specific poll then do it in OpenMike. ]

    • Odd – I was referring to a comment in the Polls and Policies thread, and I was referencing the same Fairfax poll the topic was about. How is that off topic?

      • lprent 3.1.1

        The post was about the direction that Labour was taking and that it was not connecting to the public as was shown in polls. That was a precept of the post.

        You were discussing the detail of a particular poll which was not particularly relevant to what the post discussed.

        Did you actually read the post? Or did you just read the title?

        • Pete George

          My comment showed more from the poll, which supported the premise that “the direction that Labour was taking and that it was not connecting to the public as was shown in polls”. In other words, my post was about exactly what you say the topic was about.

    • Ianupnorth 3.2

      ironic since the mess we are in is key and English created!

  4. Labour are doing a great job at mapping a clear way forward for the economy.

    Half of Labour supporters don’t think Labour are doing that. That’s not great.

    Edit: I didn’t see your comment until after I posted this. This is directly relevant to the post and to comments on the post. The Labour strategy does not seem to be working.

    [lprent: So? That the strategy is not connecting with voters was a precept for the post. I’m unsure why you think that restating the bleeding obvious is of any relevance to the post – it doesn’t discuss what is in the post. ]

    • Tigger 4.1

      Jesus H Christ Pete, why do you waste your time in this blog? Do you just like baiting people into arguments? I’m not one for banning people from posting but I’ve learned to ignore your posts because they’re typically drivel.

    • felix 4.2

      “I’m unsure why you think that restating the bleeding obvious is of any relevance to the post – it doesn’t discuss what is in the post”

      Ha! You think Pete reads the posts, Lynn?

      Silly goose.

      • freedom 4.2.1

        I must say that ever since i stopped reading Peter Squirreltail’s comments i have noticed a severe drop off in the frequency of forehead meeting desk.

  5. Chris 5

    Anyone else find it interesting that the experience in Australia kind of disproves a theory for and one against a capital gains tax –


    I.e. It doesn’t do anything to make house prices more affordable or seem to have any effect on investment growth

  6. Excellent comment, this is the summary but the whole article is worth reading.

    John Langley: Govt’s sensible response to child abuse

    One political party described them as a “political stunt”. It was noteworthy that nothing but the status quo was proposed by that party and it must be seen as sad indictment that over such a high stakes issue as this our politicians cannot even for a moment engage with each other over what we might do by way of solutions. As always, the politics take over.

    There will be those who say that all children must receive equal resources under such circumstances. That is nonsense.

    Thomas Jefferson once said, “There is nothing more unequal then the equal treatment of unequal people”. In education and health we do not and should not treat all children the same. We treat them on the basis of need. The same applies here.

    Those with the greatest need should receive the greatest resource for without that there is little hope that many will lead a near normal life. That resource should be clearly targeted and based on evidence that it has the impact for change that is required.

    The Minister wants to make a difference. She wants to go where we have been afraid to go before. She may be right or she may not. I think she is right to be bold. Instead of decrying such initiatives as cheaply as political stunts let us at least see and judge by the results.

    Our children deserve nothing less.

    * Dr John Langley is a education and social policy adviser

    Yes, our children deserve nothing less.

    • Ianupnorth 6.1

      Ah, John Langley of the private company Cognition (http://www.cognition.co.nz/) – a company that exports NZ teacher to the gulf and who are currently picking up all manner of MoE contracts, frequently making a mess of them. (at least they have removed all the pictures of little Arab boys from their website)
      He would say that, he is a friend of the government!
      As stated to you yesterday –the evidence exists on the root causes, the solutions are identified – the right don’t like them because it is against their belief systems.
      See http://www.rwjf.org/vulnerablepopulations/ – it is all about the social determinants of health! See also http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Report

      • Pete George 6.1.1

        I think the Green Paper recognises that, it suggests targetting the vulnerable rather than a blanket approach, that means more resources can go to where they will make the most difference.

        What the process is doing is asking the wider community if they are prepared to have less spent on non-essential things so more funds are available for doing what matters the most.

        • Campbell Larsen

          More borrowed lines from the PR machine Pete. I hope that one day soon you learn how to think for yourself for it grows tiresome reading your regurgitated spiel.

    • chris73 6.2

      Whats been done in then past hasn’t worked, heres hoping this might

      • Draco T Bastard 6.2.1

        It’s being done by a NAct government, ergo, it won’t as NActs sole purpose in life is to transfer taxpayer money over to themselves, their mates and have their mates then tell us that it’s all good.

        • chris73

          So if I was to respond to this trolling I’d say something like Labours sole purpose is to take money off hard-working people (especially rich pricks) and give it to welfare bludgers and minority groups and then tell us its all good (because the UN says so)

          However I’m not going to so instead I’ll say something like this is a new initiative that I hope will get the proper funding and support it needs to make a difference

          • millsy

            “sole purpose is to take money off hard-working people (especially rich pricks) and give it to welfare bludgers and minority groups and then tell us its all good (because the UN says so)”

            God forbid if the rich should be paying a few dollars extra in tax so that people have access to education, housing, health, etc.

            That is the debate we should be having, whether the rich should cop a few more dollars in tax so everyone has access to the assistance they need.

          • Draco T Bastard

            National Standards, don’t work.
            Boot Camps, don’t work.
            Tax cuts to stimulate the economy, don’t work.
            RoNS, don’t work

            Pretty much everything that this government has done doesn’t work but it almost always transfers taxpayer funds into private pockets.

            • chris73

              National Standards, don’t work.
              – do work, teachers don’t want to implement them
              Boot Camps, don’t work.
              -do work but National ran these very poorly
              Tax cuts to stimulate the economy, don’t work.
              -More taxes don’t stimulate the econmy either
              RoNS, don’t work
              -Sorry not up with this abbreviation so can’t comment on it

              • Tony Parker

                National Standards, don’t work.
                – do work, teachers don’t want to implement them

                Are you a teacher? Have you worked with the mess that is NS? Have you experienced the poor Professional Development that has the presenters only one step ahead of teachers with the knowledge and systems involved?

                National Standards as a system does not work in achiving the aim of improving the learning of all children. Simply setting a standard and then assessing each child against does nothing for the learning of children. It might satisfy Tolley and her ministry with it’s statistics but will not improve children’s learning. Good teaching, adequate support, good systems and a shared sense of partnership from all involved in a child’s education will make a difference. No we don’t want them in their present untrialled state and I’m not sure all these mythical parents Tolley keeps telling us about are that over the moon about them either.

                • chris73

                  Well its one of the things Nationals going to bring in (one way or another) so if teachers and parents don’t want them they simply vote for someone else

                  The reason teachers and principles don’t want them is, heaven forbid, the lazy and useless teachers out there (not all teachers of course just some) will get found out

                  Hey who knows maybe the better teachers will get paid more

                  • Tony Parker

                    So it’s not about improving children’s learning then. Tolley should be honest about it then and say it’s a (unscientific) tool to assess teachers worth and subsequently and subtly bring in performance pay, although how you judge a teachers performance on just test results is beyond me.

                • Lanthanide

                  National Standards are being brought in so as to grade teachers, not students. Then they will have a platform for performance-based pay and a way to break up the teachers union.

                  • chris73

                    So if you’re a good teacher you’ll get paid more and if you’re a poor teacher you’ll have motivation to upskill to get paid more

                    Sounds good to me

                    • mik e

                      Chris 73WE have the best education system in the OECD Standards went up under labour down under National .When they were in opposition they complained that teachers had to much paper work and to big a bureaucracy. and they need more time in front of students . Well strike me down now their in charge the paper work has gone up exponentially and now teachers are spending less time teaching.typical

                    • Draco T Bastard

                      No, it’s more likely that the good teachers will just give up and go do something else. And it doesn’t do anything for our children as numerous studies overseas on similar programs show. The children are actually worse off under such a scheme.

                    • Sounds good to me

                      Only if you haven’t thought carefully about the criteria by which ‘good’ and ‘bad’ teachers could be identified. The notion of ‘performance-based’ assumes you know what ‘performance’ you want and that there is a relatively straightforward means of establishing when it’s been met. What happens, in the real world, is that the focus goes off the performance that parents, pupils and communities might actually ‘want’ because that will always prove too difficult to measure/monitor in a simple manner.

                      It then defaults to what can be easily measured/monitored, very much like a drunk looking for car keys under the lampost despite having lost them 20 yards away – ‘because there’s light (i.e., easily recordable numbers) here’.

                      Performance based remuneration leads to strategic behaviours with all sorts of negative ‘unintended consequences’. You see, chris73, people are cunning – they can meet the criteria/standards (whatever they are) and actually be doing a bad job or not focusing on what is really wanted. Typically, performance based approaches overly reward the cunning and strategic rather than the ‘good’.

                      It’s one of the issues I have in general with the simplistic notion that a meritocracy is a possibility (each according to their merit). It completely ignores the difficulty of both knowing and measuring ‘merit’ and therefore simply becomes a two-faced arena for power games played out under the guise of ‘just rewards’ delivered by those (i.e., power) who ‘know’ what deserves ‘merit’.

                      Overall, a pipe dream for lazy thinkers and the foolish.

              • freedom

                National Standards,
                anything that restricts the school’s ability to implement the curriculum is a fail.

                Boot Camps,
                self explanatory fail. the resources could go into basic literacy and life skills without the addition of an exploitative and denigratory military authority

                Tax Cuts,
                let’s actually, just for kicks, just this once, adequately tax the corporate/finance world then see if it works or not. Individual income tax is set and no-one with two or more brain cells really thinks it needs adjustment. Most would agree that the Business world can should and must start paying their way.

                Roads of National Significance
                Look at the debacle and discrepancy of the War Memorial in Wellington, The Kapiti Highway, or any one of the other half dozen disasters being planned for an example where the Transit authority has no interest except traffic flows and the realities of communities and the Nation are irrelevant.

              • mik e

                chris 73 how come we got 28% real sustained growth with the tax increases including those with the fiscal drag, from 2000till 2008 when there has been know sustained growth since the last time we shared the wealth around from 1935 to 1974

                • Colonial Viper

                  chris73 forgets to mention that ‘things working’ in his books = things working for the top 5% of wealth holders and income earners.

                  E.g. “tax cuts do work to stimulate the economy” = tax cuts do work to stimulate the economy (for the top 5%).

                  It puts his comments into pespective.

    • millsy 6.3

      Quite frankly Peter Secret Squirrel George, this is simply using the moral panic about child abuse to justify the further erosion of and rationing of social services, such as health etc, and will long term, wreck the living standards of a lot of people.

      This should be opposed all the way.

  7. joe90 7

    The influence on Breivik by bloggers who believe that Europe is drowning in Muslims is becoming apparent and the hate continues


    Dear lefties:

    Keep working for your multicult global plan. But this is our plan for YOU.

    Here there are couple of recent comments I just read at The Occidental Observer:

    Wattylesrevolt said…

    One way to think about what has happened is this: the revolt against race-replacement has begun… earlier than we expected.

    And I’ll tell you something. On the one hand, I don’t support the shooting. But I also know that a future generation of vicious race-replacement enthusiasts, many of them Paki youth, have been put out of commission.

    Beowulf said…

    Anders Behring Breivik might not be fully awakened—it’s a process for most of us—, but his instincts were dead on. He struck a carefully aimed blow at his enemy, which cannot be done through talking or intellectualizing.

    This is primal.

    His actions—not rational—were meant to redeem the bloody sacrifices of his people to the multiculturalists. He thought about the problem, felt the impulse to act, and attempted—imperfectly—to construct a rationale and calculate the consequences as best he could.

    None of us know what those will be exactly. Such is the nature of action, particularly violent action. But make no mistake: this is a war. It has come because most of the damage has already been done—it’s too late to put the genie back in the bottle.

    The kingdom of heaven suffereth violence, and the violent bear it away.

    I say…

    Alas, unless Breivik is emulated by other Europeans, his actions will not have any effect on the West and their elites’ multicult plan. Such actions could even turn to be counterproductive… unless many of us start reading The Brigade.

    And this wee gem from the same counter-jihad bloggers who portray themselves as friends of Jews and Israel. : Fuck the holocaust!


    Edit: um, mods, most of my comment is either in moderation or has been swallowed by the machine…….? I’ll re-word it if necessary .

    [lprent: It didn’t like the links that I have now exposed – Don’t know why. But I suspect that it had a parsing problem whilst checking the links…]

  8. logie97 8

    Can we start a campaign somehow?

    While you are waiting for an operator (“your call is very important to us” ) you can listen to some music …

    WTF is it with large operations? One is usually calling them with a query (quite often a pressing operational matter if with a Power Co, Bank, ISP, or the IRD.) So more than likely you will have to sit in a queue and you get fed a pulse raising dreadful screeching or wailing singer. (What about giving us some guitar concerti or similar …?)

    Who selects this music?

    It’s bad enough wheeling your shopping trolley around “Push’nShove” stores and the crap music they play in between inane P/A announcements. Makes you want to get out of the place rather than browse the shelves and therefore likely to reduce impulse purchasing. However, with supermarkets you have a choice, but not when it comes to the phone – hang-up is not an option because you just rejoin the end of the queue.

    Anyone prepared to propose it as a remit at their party local committee – all parties Left to Right. Perhaps Grey Power would be prepared to demand it from the PM at his next meeting with them… make their votes dependent on a law change!!!

    • Vicky32 8.1

      Can we start a campaign somehow?
      While you are waiting for an operator (“your call is very important to us” ) you can listen to some music …
      WTF is it with large operations? One is usually calling them with a query (quite often a pressing operational matter if with a Power Co, Bank, ISP, or the IRD.) So more than likely you will have to sit in a queue and you get fed a pulse raising dreadful screeching or wailing singer. (What about giving us some guitar concerti or similar …?)
      Who selects this music?

      I truly wonder! The only decent hold music I have ever encountered was while waiting to talk to someone at Studylink, and they were very prompt! Housing NZ appropriately enough, plays only Tim Finn’s ‘Fraction too much Friction‘, on an endless loop, and WINZ plays only the most droning and dirge-like of all the potential songs by NZ artists that they could play.



  9. interesting 9

    Latest Roy Morgan Poll out today:


    Labour continues downward trend that has come through in the 3 other polls released over last few weeks.

  10. Latest Roy Morgan is out.  Labour has shed a couple of points and the nats have gained these.
    What is really weird is that our confidence level is 127 whereas Aussie’s is 108.  Why Kiwis should feel more confident about our economy than Aussie’s is way beyond me.
    This is all too weird.

    EDIT: Interesting bet me to it.

    • interesting 10.1

      I think Micky it is because there is a strong campaign in Aussie claiming that a carbon tax will be disastorous for the economy that seems to have gained some traction.

      • mickysavage 10.1.1

        That may be part of it.  For some reason business confidence is always higher when the right are in power.  It does not matter how bad objectively things are, the owners of capital just feel better.  This then feeds through to reporting and general feelings.
        It is damned hard to counter.

        • Pete George

          Read Bryce Edward’s newsletter today.

          The world according to Labour faithfuls is a different world to everyone else, including the voters/pollees. If someone with some clout in Labour doesn’t wake up soon the party is in danger if becoming another minor party.

          • mickysavage

            How is your party polling?
            What makes you think you are qualified to comment on the current status of the major parties?
            The last time I checked having a grasp of reality was a prerequisite for expecting an expression of an opinion to be taken seriously.

            • Pete George

              The last time I checked having a grasp of reality was a prerequisite for expecting an expression of an opinion to be taken seriously.

              Outside your bubble of blindness that statement would be viewed with mirth or sadness, considering where it’s coming from.

              I’m not qualified at all to comment. Who is? Oh, Bryce probably is.

              Labour and its cheerleaders are paying the electoral price for their assumptions that ‘we are right’ and that ‘voters must come around to seeing that we are right’. It reflects the arrogance that the public still perceives to embody a party that was thrown out of office three years ago and refuses to show any humbleness or signs of self-reflection. Labour partisans and hacks would do well to be reading all the newspaper editorials (without their rose-tinted glasses on) and face some reality.

              There is a growing reality out here.

              • Colonial Viper

                Yes the growing reality is unemployment and under-employment, especially young people, and the gap with Australia increasing even further.

                Resulting in 3000 NZ’ers a week leaving for there permanently, so the population of Kiwis in Australia is growing too.

              • So Pete how is your party polling?

  11. grumpy czeching in 11

    In the last few weeks I have been travelling in Asia and Europe and in the course of that travel have met serious business leaders.

    The thing that strikes me is how opimistic Asian business leaders are and how pessimistic European’s are. The europeans see the immenent collapse of the euro and world economies as a trainwreck slowly happenning and the Asians just keep optimistically going on.

    Interestingly, spoke to a Thai whose company is perfecting by genetics fresian cows on farms in China that can thrive in Asian conditions. Eat the Fonterra.

    • Draco T Bastard 12.1

      A security auditor for our servers has demanded the following within two weeks:

      A list of current usernames and plain-text passwords for all user accounts on all servers
      A list of all password changes for the past six months, again in plain-text
      A list of “every file added to the server from remote devices” in the past six months
      The public and private keys of any SSH keys
      An email sent to him every time a user changes their password, containing the plain text password

      I’d tell him and the company that sent him to fuck off. There’s no way that you’d log half of that stuff, especially in plain text, never mind sending it in an email as doing so would be a security breach.

      • lprent 12.1.1

        Tell him to piss off. If you do that, you have not only opened your servers up completely to the idiot, but you have probably opened up a whole pile of accounts accessible to people reusing the passwords. Not to mention that emails are effectively unprotected against any man in the middle attacks. Emails are routinely stored at both the senders systems and the receivers systems in plain text, spooled in the same way at ISP’s, and generally are the ultimate in systems that you do not send passwords through.

        Dodgy as… Are they testing the stupidity of the client?

  12. ropata 13

    A good piece from Stuff today.. John KY holidaying at the Taj Mahal while babies in Canterbury are washed in rain barrels


    • rosy 13.1

      Amazing how an author and poet can put the earthquake recovery into a philisophical context, but journalists don’t seem to be able to do so. Good work.

    • Jim Nald 14.1

      On that note, there are a couple of quotes from elsewhere that would at this point seem appropriate for Key:

      “… the most important thing we do, is not doing”

      “… the discretion of forbearance is the better part of responsive valour. This is such an occasion”

    • rosy 14.2

      That’s authoritarianism for you – When life sucks, these people make it suck a whole lot more

      • felix 14.2.1

        What’s the peacetime disaster equivalent of “war profiteering”?

        That’s what grinds my gears.

        • Colonial Viper

          OMG…a bloody cowboy town with mafia profiteering.

          What’s the peacetime disaster equivalent of “war profiteering”?

          Not quite it. But I am sure you know what it is.

          When a mafia wise guy comes by the store with his mates. And demands money from you for himself, and for his mates, to ensure that your valuable things around the place remain safe.


          This needs to go on nationwide TV and assholes named and civil action taken.

    • ropata 14.3

      Fuck. Some of those corrupt assholes need to be in jail

  13. Colonial Viper 15

    Greek corrupt leaders sold their entire country out for their own gain

    An inside job. They put the entire of Greece up as collateral for additional bail out money.

    And the bail out money doesn’t even go to the Greek people. It goes straight to the big banks, especially German and French banks.

    Make sure you watch both parts.


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