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Open mike 28/08/2013

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, August 28th, 2013 - 206 comments
Categories: open mike - Tags:

Open mike is your post. For announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose.

The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the link to Policy in the banner).

Step right up to the mike…

206 comments on “Open mike 28/08/2013 ”

  1. Morrissey 1

    Still bowing to the bullying of John “Possumhead” O’Neill
    Radio New Zealand National: Doesn’t “Sound Like Us”

    Radio New Zealand National, Wednesday 28 August 2013, 6.10 a.m.

    The Essendon Football Club has been stripped of its points and heavily fined following a drug investigation. That’s important news, and rightly was the first thing on this morning’s National Radio sports bulletin. However, poor old Gary Ahern was clearly under some awkward riding instructions.

    In 2004, an absurd directive was issued by the then Australian soccer CEO John O’Neill—Yes, THAT John O’Neill—that the game everyone in Australia and New Zealand calls “soccer” was henceforth to be called “football”, in spite of the fact that name was already taken by Australian football and Rugby football. Most news organisations, especially in the always compliant New Zealand, obeyed O’Neill’s spurious directive, but the general public of course continued to ignore it. Several years later, even the Herald has reverted to popular usage, but Radio New Zealand’s employees are clearly still obliged to persist with the practice. That’s obvious when you consider the absurdly convoluted wording of Ahern’s script this morning.

    I sent those hapless slaves the following email….

    It’s the Essendon FOOTBALL Club, not “Australian Rules” Club

    Dear Simon and Geoff,

    First item on your sports news this morning was about the “Essendon Australian Rules Club”. There is no such entity. Obviously the sports reporter meant the famous Essendon Football Club, but for some ridiculous reason, felt compelled to make up another name for the club.

    That reason was made perfectly clear in the very next item, which was about “the Australian footballer Andrew Durante”. A quick check of the Australian Football League rosters reveals no such player, and there was no Australian footballer of that name playing against the All Blacks on Saturday evening. Turns out this Andrew Durante is an Australian soccer pkayer, but because of this absurd Radio New Zealand directive, he has to be called a “footballer”, in defiance of common practice in both Australia and New Zealand.

    Your sports reporter Gary Ahern knows better, of course, but obviously felt compelled to follow this absurd directive.

    Just another example of Radio New Zealand not sounding anything “like us.”

    Yours in bemusement,
    Morrissey Breen
    Northcote Point

    • tc 1.1

      yes what muppetts these morning RNZ jocks are, O’Neill would be pissing himslef as he left that post over 5 years ago as proof of what dweebs we are following 03 co hosting fiasco.

      In Aussie AFL is mostly referred to as Footy or Rules, League is League, soccer is soccer and rugby rugby. You could just call them sportspeople given the way some swap codes.

    • Te Reo Putake 1.2

      I’m not sure why RNZ making it clear for the listeners that the Bombers are an Aussie Rules club is a problem. If they’d just said Essendon Football Club, most kiwis would have thought that meant football, not rules. btw, they haven’t been stripped of any points, but they aren’t allowed to play in the finals series despite qualifying in the top eight.

      • tc 1.2.1

        yes very lazy sloppy jonolism from RNZ they will officially finish the season in ninth place regardless of their points tally, and copped a $2m fine, lost draft picks etc

        • Te Reo Putake

          The sloppy jonolism was from Moz, not RNZ. They reported the sanctions correctly, Moz, reported their report incorrectly.

          • Morrissey

            They reported the sanctions correctly…

            The poor obedient slaves couldn’t even get the name of the club right. It’s not that Gary Ahern doesn’t know how stupid he sounds by making up a name for the club, it’s that he is constrained by the foolish policy of Radio NZ National to disregard popular usage and obey a long-defunct directive issued by a discredited and malicious sports administrator.

            Whether or not the Bombers lost all their points or not, the outcome is the same: they have been shamed and disgraced for their systematic abuse of drugs.

      • Morrissey 1.2.2

        Our good friend Te Reo Putake has, not for the first time, pretended to be obtuse….

        If they’d just said Essendon Football Club, most kiwis would have thought that meant football, not rules.

        I don’t know anyone who is so ignorant as to imagine the Essendon Bombers play in the Super 15. So we know it’s not rugby football. It’s not association football. It’s Essendon Football Club. The name kind of clues you in, even if you know nothing about Melbourne, Australia or sport. Anyone who doesn’t know Essendon Football Club plays football should not be living unsupervised in the community.

        • Te Reo Putake

          Well, as you know, Moz, for most Kiwis, football is the round ball game. We also play rugby and league. So it makes sense for RNZ to clarify that the Bombers are an Auusie rules club. Otherwise, the listeners would have been left wondering how this affects the Nix’s chances in the upcoming season. Like it or not RNZ can’t tailor their sports bulletins to fit the anachronistic pedantry of one gripper in Northcote.

          Yours in football,
          Te reonaldinho.

          • Morrissey

            Well, as you know, Moz, for most Kiwis, football is the round ball game.

            No it’s not, and you know it. Football is a generic name, of course, but it usually means rugby football. That’s why Gary Ahern and his colleagues not so subtly undermine the directibe by almost always saying “uh, football” when they dutifully read out their scripts, which until Possumhead’s mischievous joke directive in 2004, always used the word “soccer”. As I mentioned earlier, the print media have lapsed back to the popular usage, but Radio NZ National doggedly persists, just like they do with “1800s” instead of “nineteenth century” and “Fanganui” instead of the correct local pronunciation.

            So it makes sense for RNZ to clarify that the Bombers are an Auusie rules club.

            It’s the Essendon Football Club. The Bombers play football. There is no entity known as the Essendon Australian Rules Club.

            • Te Reo Putake

              Now who’s being willfully obtuse? Nobody said that there was such a thing as Essendon Australian Rules Club. But Radio NZ did mention Essendon, Aussie Rules club. Note the comma. It was by way of explanation, as I mentioned above. They never claimed that construction was the official name of the club, they were putting the club in context for their listeners. ie, Essendon (an) aussie rules club. Geddit now?

              Tell ya what, howabout you take a clipboard and a pen and paper down to your local shops and ask 100 punters to name a famous footballer. After you get sick of writing down Messi, Rooney, Reidy et al pop back and let us know how it feels to be so out of touch.

              And for God’s sake stop sending those pompous emails to RNZ; it’s not just the waste of taxpayers time before they hit delete, it’s an H&S issue. Eyeball OOS; repeated rolling of the eyes can be very harmful to the long term health of the producers.

  2. karol 2

    Maybe the Al Jazeera slot on the GCSB is coming up at 7.30am NZ time? It’s still on the News.

    But look at the line up of Kiwis they are planning to talk to???!!

    • felix 2.1

      lols, Farrar seems to have been dropped. Guess they figured out who he is.

      • karol 2.1.1

        Yes. Noticed that – or maybe he doesn’t want to be seen live on Skype first thing in the morning? Or busy polling for Natz about Labour leader contest?

      • Colonial Viper 2.1.2

        Farrar has and continues to have a very influential role regarding NZ internet provision. You would have thought he was still worth talking to.

    • karol 2.2

      Now going live online at the above link.

  3. karol 3

    Interesting that, according to Vernon Small, the ABC pro-Robertson caucus faction seems to be on the wane – reading the tea leaves?

    • Olwyn 3.1

      You would think that at least some of them would feel obliged to keep an open mind, since the election is only a year away. So, it would be wise to consider which one is most likely to win it, or at least strengthen Labour’s hand, as well as trends among the members. If, for example, an overwhelming member vote in a particular direction was overridden by the caucus vote, the risk of continued discord would be high.

      • Anne 3.1.1

        I think you will find Olwyn that some of those who fell in line with the ABC club’s wishes in Nov/Dec 2011 will be thinking a little more independently this time around. Its amazing what the close proximity of a general election can do to the thought processes of a politician. 🙂

  4. vto 4

    John Key has seriously showed his true colours to all of the Canterbury people this morning


    Key’s response shows once again how inappropriate it is for commercially learned skills to be applied to the important matters in life. Key is way out of his depth. His approach is wrong on so many fronts.

    One of the outcasts comments something like “it shows his true colours”, which sits perfectly alongside the fact that most New Zealanders think he is a liar (which he clearly is. Another commercially learned trait I would suggest).

    It is completely and utterly appalling.

    What a shameful Prime Minister and an arsehole of a person.

    • Tracey 4.1

      Labour and Greens, get some billboards up in CHCHCH?

      Having fun yet? John Key is

      The smiling assassin comes through.

    • BM 4.2

      Why should the TAXPAYER be forking out coin for uninsured properties?

      Fucking idiots, expecting the taxpayer to pick up the slack for their stupidity.

      Feel a bit sorry for the bare land people though, but that’s just the way it goes at least they get some money back.

      • vto 4.2.1

        You are a moron BM. Your post shows a complete lack of comprehension of what was posted, let alone the wider issue of red zoning and government buyouts.


      • Tracey 4.2.2

        $30m to Rio Tinto, why not to CHCH owners.

        have you read the Court;s reasoning which actually answers your question?


        • vto

          Tracey, I suspect you are wasting your time with braindead BM but lets examine his post, you know just for “fun”…

          First; “Why should the TAXPAYER be forking out coin for uninsured properties?”

          The taxpayer is not forking out for uninsured properties. That would imply the properties were insureable and bare land is not. The fact they had no insurance has absolutely nothing to do with the outcasts claims, which concern bare land. None, nada zip zero.

          Second; “Fucking idiots, expecting the taxpayer to pick up the slack for their stupidity.”

          See above. BM the fucking stupid idiot.

          Third; “Feel a bit sorry for the bare land people though, but that’s just the way it goes at least they get some money back.”

          Exposes BM’s lack of understanding as there are only bare land people involved in this. As for “just the way it goes”, what an ignoramus. It is not just the way it goes and that is what the Judge said. There are laws and processes to follow in these kinds of circumstances, Brownlee didn’t follow them and that is what the Judge said. It is never the case of “just the way it goes” in these circumstances.

          “At least they get some money back”. Again exposes BM’s ignorance in thinking the money comes “back”. Back from where? Ffs.

          And that’s it. BM’s post has zero value other than again showing the non-thinking nature of right wing parrots.

          • BM

            From their website


            The problem many affected residential “red zone” home owners have is that not everyone is affected so badly by the quakes that they have to move. Many don’t wish to move.

            The government devised a supposedly voluntary buyout offer aimed at moving residents out of the “red zone” based on a set of criteria that one has to be insured to receive an offer, and the offer price is proportionally based on the Rating Valuation and the insurance coverage.

            The government also threatens that if one doesn’t accept the ‘voluntary’ offer, a compulsory buyout will be made at a lower price, and that essential services (power, water, sewer, etc) will be turned off to force you out.

            1. Uninsured home owners have their homes condemned, without due process or just cause. [Total loss of home value]

            Should of had insurance

            2. Under-insured home owners are offered reduced buyout price, proportional to their insurance coverage. [Substantial loss of home value]

            Should of had enough insurance

            3. Fully-insured home owners cannot repair, or rebuild (if necessary) on their own land, and will lose insurance entitlements if choose to sell to the government. [Partial/substantial loss of home value]

            The government/taxpayer is not going to spend millions and millions of dollars rebuilding a red zoned area just for you with all the infrastructure that goes along with it, just because you want to stay..
            Face it, the land’s fucked, everyone else has excepted the situation and moved on,
            stop being a pain in the arse.

            • Lanthanide

              Earth to BM. The problem is if you had a vacant section without a structure on it, it was and is IMPOSSIBLE to insure it.

              These people are being punished for not attaining something that is impossible to attain.

            • Tracey

              That’s a “NO, I haven’t read the decision” then BM?

              I can save you some trouble;

              The Government drafted the earthquake legislation. They actually drafted two pieces, one after the first earthquake and another later. So they had two chances to get it right.

              They also made lots of statements in public and private about the intention of their legislation.

              The High Court decision is that they then dealt with these people contrary to the very legislation (and its purpose) that they (Govt) had prescribed.

              vacant land owners could not get insurance. It is not a question of them not wanting it.

              The bottom-line however is that this government made statutory promises through the ACT and its purpose and then acted contrary to it.

              Put it this way, the majority of vacant and uninsured have already been fucked by the Govt acting outside its power (and this decision wont change that), so you can take some solace.

              The total cost of to the country to top up the first unlawful offer by the government is


              BTW there is no proof, and none was offered by the Crown in its case that people will not insure if the govt pays the uninsured 100%

              Remember when the Govt paid out $20m to foreign investors in SCF? Wouldn’t a good kiwi bloke like the Pm think these Canterbury kiwis are more worthy of our support than the foreign folks taking a roll of the dice on investments? Investor beware and all that? AND this payout was done after English had a chance to cancel the govt guarantee scheme of Cullen… he knew the implications, he had advice it was going to fail, and he did it anyway.

              How about that for a precedent?

            • vto

              You still missed the point. The court case concerned bare land. Wake up drongo

              And the point of the post was the shameful response of the Prime Minister, which you have not addressed.

              As for this…
              “Face it, the land’s fucked, everyone else has excepted the situation and moved on,
              stop being a pain in the arse.”
              You see, yet again you show your ignorance. The knowledge around the traps is that the vast majority of government bought land can and will be remediated and inhabited again in the future.

              Get some actual facts under your belt instead of being a waste of space.

              I hope you are not intending to vote next year because your understanding of issues is woeful.

              • Tracey

                “The court case concerned bare land” AND some uninsured residential properties vto.

            • RedBaronCV

              Can they actually turn off the power and kick people out? Moving onto water by way of a rain water tank and a septic tank take care of the other two services – and they are used by lots of more isolated homes all around the country. But the power – it isn’t expensive to supply that close to a main centre so how the hell would they get away with threatening to cut it off as the supply is already there and the houses have been legally built there?
              What exactly is the difference between remaining in the red zone and living on a lifestyle block on the outskirts of town?

    • bad12 4.3

      Yes being told ‘your wrong’ by the Court has certainly cracked the facade carefully constructed for the Slippery little Shyster for His role as Prime Minister,

      Had a discussion this week about Christchurch matters with someone who has just come back from working among the ‘wreckage’ down there, none of it is pretty, nor f**king fun, for those who the Prime Minister would bankrupt with His mean spirited ‘offer’ on their un-insured red zoned properties to the tenants of the States housing in that city,

      Caught out by the very Legislation that He enacted the Prime Minister has retreated into simpering like a spoiled child and i would hopefully see the Court of Appeal reflect this in a future judgement,

      As far as ‘precedent’ goes the Court only need to, when it kicks Slippery’s appeal into touch, make reference to the fact that the High Court decision which has caused the spoiled little brat of a Prime Minister to react so poorly is based singularly on the CERA Legislation and so DOES NOT set a precedent in Law for any other disaster be it natural or otherwise,

      Hopefully the ‘new’ leader of the Labour opposition gets down to that city quick smart, with a good opportunity to spend some time there being the upcoming by-election, and have a good look at all the issues surrounding the ‘reconstruction’,

      There is a damn sight more ugly stuff going on down there than i am prepared to outline at the moment…

      • vto 4.3.1

        You’re right with the last line (and all the others too)

      • Tracey 4.3.2

        I concur.

        I have friends and family down there. My cousin’s home was completely destroyed in the first earthquake in kaiapoi. Fully insured. Had to get lawyers to deal with insurance company. Finally got a negotiated payout in October 2012 after 18 months of bullying by the insurance company. Taking money from people to cover certain contingencies and then actively pursuing a strategy to reduce your obligation is more than shameful, but hey, let’s attack the uninsured as unworthy. I shudder to think how much insurance companies have cost us as taxpayers in this Earthquake recovery.

        If anything would make someone not bother to insure it is the behaviour of the insurance companies. God forbid the government criticise them.

    • mac1 4.4

      The judge giving the ruling said the government has to be even-handed. Key obviously thinks that throwing both hands up in the air as he walks away is even-handed. He shows no empathy, as is the case with liars.

      When challenged on this, our PM will say that he can find another judge who will give a different opinion- which is in essence what Brownlee is saying.

      Good on Ruth Dyson for saying that the compensation should be for the full amount.

    • Treetop 4.5

      Compulsory home and section insurance in future and the problem becomes minimal. Insurance could be added onto the mortgage (as a last resort). A lot of money is tied up in land and the purchase/build of a home, that insurance is essential.

      The government are not interested in lowering the level of alcohol when in charge of a motor vehicle and they are quite happy to pay out ACC and hospital costs.

      I’d like to know what the cost of accidents involving the current level of alcohol to a reduced level is compared to being reasonable with the uninsured?

      Probably cheaper than a fair payout for those who had differculty in organising or affording home and section insurance, bearing in mind the section owners who could not insure.

      Anomalies are seen in everyday life and to have the wisdom to know this, is what is needed, not to further a person’s anguish which is so unproductive and cruel.

  5. Tracey 5

    New SIS chief being sought. In an online news article they talk about it being similar to the move to appoint Fletcher to GCSB showing a move away from military based leadership.

    On another note I saw that one outlet is reporting that support is waning for Robertson.

    Given that the appointment of a Labour leader is determined by very specific groups in NZ, how can anyone accurately poll it unless they are polling labour members, labour caucus and union members and delegates? Would they be doing that?

    • karol 5.1

      The article on Stuff (as above) is saying Robertson’s support in caucus is waning. Vernon Small must be talking to Labour MPs.

      • Tracey 5.1.1

        … or they want to stir up the ABC’s cos there’s not enough blood for the media yet?

    • karol 5.2

      SIS Chief vacancy:

      Job description/duties includes:

      The Director is also accountable for:
      • providing high quality advice to the Minister in Charge in respect to Government’s security and intelligence interests, and the means to achieve desired security system outcomes
      • protecting, advancing and maximising New Zealand’s broader intelligence interests by developing and sustaining relationships with, and providing advice to, government departments and international counterparts
      • maintaining sound relationships with ODESC, and effectively coordinating with those government agencies with roles in New Zealand’s security and intelligence community
      • leading the effective management of the Service so that it contributes to the achievement of agreed outcomes now and in the future by developing the Service to fulfil its roles in a constantly changing environment
      • modelling leadership and collegial behaviours within the Intelligence Community and wider State sector to achieve cross sector and whole of government outcomes.
      Over the next two to three years the Director will be required to:
      • Build trust and confidence in the intelligence and security sector
      • With the Director of GCSB, identify and implement initiatives to achieve closer integration and alignment, where this makes sense, between the GCSB and the NZSIS, including establishing a joint workforce strategy across the NZIC
      • Address findings of the GCSB compliance review that may apply to the wider intelligence community including ensuring a high level of compliance with systems and frameworks in the Service

      • Contribute to Ministers and senior officials making better national security and foreign policy decisions
      • Improve New Zealand’s cyber security through promoting good security practice as well as effective counter-intelligence and counter-espionage capability.

      • karol 5.2.1

        And this bit about SIS required personal profile:

        • experience managing organisational cultural change and strategic planning of an organisation
        • ability to manage external stakeholders (including international partners) as well as those within the New Zealand Intelligence Community

        • Tracey

          thanks karol

          At least it confirms foreign involvement with our secret services.


          “Stakeholder may refer to:
          Stakeholder (corporate), an accountant, group, organization, member or system who affects or can be affected by an organization’s actions
          Stakeholder, an entity that can be affected by the results of that in which they are said to be stakeholders, i.e., that in which they have a stake. Project stakeholder, a person, group or organization with an interest in a project
          Stakeholder theory, a theory that identifies and models the groups which are stakeholders of a corporation or project
          Stakeholder analysis, the process of identifying those affected by a project or event

          Stakeholder (law), a third party who temporarily holds money or property while its owner is still being determined


        • Tiger Mountain

          Job description could be edited a bit–“ability to suck up to US imperialism” might do.

          • Murray Olsen

            Ability to understand a broad range of American accents and colloquialisms so as not to misunderstand orders?

        • Greywarbler

          experience managing organisational cultural change? Is this in every job description these days I wonder. It would explain why we are always in a state of undress, messing about, uttering cries of rage and pain, which in the end leaves us with new people, and a new system, developed at great expense and the loss of dedicated workers, and the loss of institutional knowledge that should have been called on and incorporated into a revised system for maximum effectiveness for ongoing work.

          Grand gestures is what we get from management. Installing new and expensive technology and showing bias against old systems is what we get.
          Trying to employ less people, cutting people out of the workforce yet still expecting to trade with the others who are still working, that’s what we get.

          And soon it will be machines interacting and building themselves and people behaving more like machines than they do now that’s what we’ll get. That is the modern man (and high flying woman) at their work today. What a bunch of prats at their core. And soulless and destructive. And anti-human.

          • McFlock

            Frequently code for “firing people”. Or on occasion “we just fired people and screwed it up, you need to clean up the mess”.

      • RedBaronCV 5.2.2

        “Build trust and confidence in the intelligence community” with whom one may ask? All the kiwi’s they are thinking of spying on or the off shore clients? Surprised they don’t have ” export led focus” as part of the scenario.

    • bad12's pa 5.3

      In the light of information that a new head of SIS is being sought and with due apologies to Arlo Guthrie for a slight re-casting of “The Last Guy”, I thought this might be appropriate.

      …being an SIS man, you have to be over 40 years old.
      And the reason is, that it takes at least 25 years with the
      organization to be that much of a bastard. It’s true. You just
      can’t join, you know. It needs an atmosphere where your
      natural bastardness can grow and develop and take a
      meaningful shape in today’s complex society…

      • bad12 5.3.1

        So, this is where my PA has sloped off to instead of being present at the coal-face, your lucky i am illiterate or such behavior would have resulted in a written warning being issued…

        • bad12's pa

          Heh. I’m only a volunteer PA so can’t have my nose held to the grindstone..

          • bad12

            i thought the least you could do would be to ‘volunteer’ to write your own written warning…

  6. framu 6

    “Day two of the Labour leadership race and the main contenders are already embroiled in an ugly Twitter row, on the back foot over their use of the taxpayer-funded travel perk to lobby for votes – and discovering that knocking Prime Minister John Key off his pedestal is not as easy it looks.”

    go and stand in the corner with patrick, tracey watkins

    fucks sake – are there any political journalists who have the relevant mental skills to figure what being a reporter should entail?

    • Colonial Viper 6.1

      They’re not journalists, just gossip columnists.

      • tc 6.1.1

        they even suck at that CV, they are the tools of their masters.

        facts are just annoying coincidences some days and other days they come from the tree down the bottom of the garden or a mirror.

      • Anne 6.1.2

        Talking of gossip columnists: Have a look at what the ignorant bimbo Rachel Glucina of the Herald’s ‘The Diary’ fame had to say about the three candidates. I’ve printed in full to save wading through the mindless crap to get to it.

        The three-way Labour race begins
        Applications for the Labour leadership nomination have closed. The lights have gone up. The stage is set. The votes are to be cast. This is your Political Idol. So far, there’s no lack of hubris among the runners.

        Shane Jones, remember him? Paid for hotel porn movies on his Crown credit card? He’s making a comeback and wants the top job.

        Grant Robertson is running, too, and making headlines for his sexual orientation. He is getting credit for being an articulate, sharp-witted, gay MP. Robertson says his private life is not of interest; New Zealanders will look past it. He’s happy, however, to peddle his pastime of playing rugby.

        David Cunliffe announced His ticket with His slogan while wearing His ceremonial leis at His electorate office under a portrait of Himself.

        Critics say he is too Me, Me, Me. So blinkered, evidently, he obliviously posted His candidacy message on Facebook and duplicated the same template as rival Robertson. Oops. Witi Ihimaera may call that flattery, but voters will call that a turn off.

        The new Labour leader is expected to be announced on September 15, in which we hope a thick waft of white smoke will declare there’s a winner.

        No prizes for guessing which political party She votes for…

    • weka 6.2

      But the social-media side of the contest is already turning ugly. Mr Cunliffe publicly disowned a “Cunliffe leader” site and took to Twitter to call on supporters to “quit the troll spam page”.

      Here’s what Cunliffe tweeted yesterday

      David Cunliffe ‏@DavidCunliffeMP 19h

      Afternoon all. @CunliffeLeader is a troll and has nothing to do with our campaign. We’re keeping it positive. Thanks.

      David Cunliffe ‏@DavidCunliffeMP 19h

      Afternoon all. @CunliffeLeader is a troll and has nothing to do with our campaign. We’re keeping it positive. Thanks.

      David Cunliffe ‏@DavidCunliffeMP 20h

      @CunliffeLeader Quit the troll spam page – this page has nothing to do with me. – @DavidCunliffeMP

      Hardly turning ugly, and hardly a ‘call to supporters’. Looks like normal use of twitter to me. If Watkins thinks that’s ugly she needs to spend more time on the standard 😉

      Poor jono’s must be hard reporting on storms in teacups.

  7. vto 7

    Late 2010 to late 2012 Christchurch suffered 2 years of 10,000 earthquakes. Dead people, busted communities, broken homes, heroism, community spirit, goodwill.

    Late 2012 to late 2013 Christchurch begins its recovery and rebuild money begins to flow inwards. People’s eyes light up, money, greed, rudeness, shafting, mutual shitting on each other.

    The yin and yang of humanity on display for all to see…..

    oh for normality

    • Greywarbler 7.1

      This is the new normal I think.

    • fender 7.2

      So I’m guessing Keys’ “it’s been fun” comment does not fairly reflect the reality. What a disgrace this guy pretending to be PM is. I won’t be holding my breath waiting for Pathetic Growler (Patrick Gower) to harass Key over this comment.

  8. just saying 8

    Hi LPrent,
    When I clicked on a comment a moment ago, I was taken to an interesting post from September last year (rather than today’s open-mike).
    As always, I mention it just in case it is the kind of thing you need to know.

  9. karol 9

    Grant Robertson’s Facebook page had a day’s head start, and is ahead of Cunliffe on Likes.

    Cunliffe’s Likes are increasing, and catching up to Robertson.

    Robertson – 1171

    Cunliffe – 1004

    • Colonial Viper 9.1

      Don’t worry about that. Grants got the stronger crew of Young Labour clicktivists at his disposal in central Auckland and Wellington.

    • Ennui 9.2

      I reckon there is a whopping great number of Cunliffe supporters out there who are not part of the Facebook generation. My mother is a good example of old Labour, She thinks Facebook is for freaks who don’t know how to talk face to face….maybe we have a generation issue overlaying this election?

      • Treetop 9.2.1

        I find facebook to be so gossipy so will not join, even though I can be a judgemental bitch on the Standard.

  10. Tracey 10

    “New Zealand made 106 requests for information on a total of 119 Facebook users in the first half of the year.

    Facebook produced some data for 58 per cent of the requests, the company says”


    • fender 11.1

      That’s really poor taste, people don’t need to know why John Key has small-mans syndrome 🙂

    • Ennui 11.2

      Bloody hell Phil….if any pregnant women try and eat my chickens there will be trouble.

      • phillip ure 11.2.1

        ennui..if you see mobs of pregnant women approaching yr chickens..forks in hand..

        ..you could try to fend them off with a falafel or two..?

        ..shouting as you do so ..’small dicks!’..’small dicks!’

        ..that might work..


        phillip ure..

    • weka 11.3

      “how to guarantee yr male offspring will have a small penis..eat lots of chickens…”

      I’m sure you think this is funny phillip, but the study doesn’t say that and you’re just contributing to the ongoing dumbing down of science in public sphere.

      And good ole PETA, missing the point too… if eating chicken increases one’s intake of phthalates (which isn’t clear from the study), then the obvious question is how the phthalates are getting there. Phthalates are known endocrine disruptors, and the solution is to stop putting them into the environment at source. It’s also possible that any hormonal effect on unborn children comes from industrial, factory farmed chickens, which have all sorts of weird shit done to them, including hormone treatments.

      • phillip ure 11.3.1

        weka..i don’t find any aspect of eating chickens ‘funny’..

        ..nor do i think the health-outcomes from eating meat/fish/dairy are at all ‘funny’..

        ..(i pass this on as more of a public-service announcement..’cos you sure as hell won’t read this in the mainstream media..eh..?

        ..and most in nz are so brainwashed on this..they express incredulity at any claim the consumption of what they have been spun/sold all their lives as ‘healthy’..’essential’..could have harmful outcomes..

        ..just one myth:..the ‘cows’ milk is essential for good bones’ bullshit..

        ..cows’ milk actually leaches calcium from bones..eh..?

        ..something else the mainstream media have no interest in telling you..)

        ..and are you denying all the science showing how harmful such dietary practices are..?

        ..why do you think there are the warnings to ‘only eat red meat three times a week’ etc..?

        ..and if you want the evidence on dairy..you cd do worse than key ‘dairy’ into my searchengine..

        ..having been vegan for about 15 yrs now..i have quite a trove of the stuff..

        ..and seriously weka..what most are doing to their longterm health prospects..from their diets..

        ..isn’t in the slightest bit ‘funny’..

        ..and of course..most wash down their charred/bbq-ed/carcinogen-enhanced meat with the nationally sanctioned drug…alcohol..

        ..i carried a story this morning reporting un figures..showing 4% of all deaths on the planet..are from alcohol..(and this is more than die from violence..

        ..the number of annual deaths due to cannabis consumption..


        ..it would seem so many are holding the stick from the wrong end..eh..?

        phillip ure..

        • weka

          (i pass this on as more of a public-service announcement.

          You are promoting misleading and incorrect interpretations of science.

          ..cows’ milk actually leaches calcium from bones..eh..?

          [citation needed]

          ..and are you denying all the science showing how harmful such dietary practices are..?

          No, I’m not. You are engaging your prejudices there, assuming that critical thinking on one factor equates to denial of other things. Please read what I said again, and point to where I am denying “all the science showing how harmful such dietary practices are”.

          I’m well aware of the problems with mainstream nutritional advice. I’m also well aware of the bullshit within the vegan/vegetarian communities. And the paleo communities etc. For some reason, food attracts a high degree of dogma and extremism. The best way to deal with that is to engage critical thinking across the board, at both the science level and the philosophical/ethical level.

          • phillip ure

            weka..re request for citation..i told you where to find the evidence against dairy..

            ..or else you could just google it..eh..?

            ..and while you are there..check out how good bbq-ed red meat is for you..

            ..and as incidental evidence..(ahem..!..aside from myself..being way past my best-used-by date..oozing bountiful health/wellbeing as i am at this mo’..)..i have a dog who has lived on a vegan diet for 15 yrs..

            ..and she looks about 3/4 yrs old..run/moves like a gazelle..coat so shiny you need shades..


            ..then i look at the dogs younger than my lucy…and the humans all around me of my advanced years – having lived their diets of meat/dairy/booze…

            ..most dragging themselves around..

            ..and i go ‘y’know!’ again..

            ..i had a medical check-up recently..

            ..medical person..pen poised..asked for the list of meds i am on..

            ..and at first disbelieving i was on nothing/no meds….

            ..and double-checked/asked..’are you sure?’

            ..i then told her the only drugs i used were black tea and pot…


            phillip ure..

            • weka

              weka..re request for citation..i told you where to find the evidence against dairy..

              Ok, please link to that, I must have missed it. If you don’t I will assume you are making shit up.

              ..or else you could just google it..eh..?

              For every article on google saying meat is bad, there is another saying meat is good, and everything in between. Likewise pretty much every food you can think of. It’s up to you to provide the evidence for your argument, because I can’t mind read.

              As for the rest, of course there are individuals who can do well on vegan diets. Duh. But you seem to be saying that because x individuals do well on vegan diets, than all people can. I’m also wondering if you are inferring that because you do well on a vegan diet, then eating animal products is bad. But that would just be daft wouldn’t it.

              I see you have ignored the substance of my comments, which is that science is being badly misrepresented by PETA and now you. I have alot of sympathy for animal rights and will not eat factory chicken or eggs. But PETA’s position was just idiotic and illogical, and leads me to believe they’re not interested in the phthalate issues, let alone the wellbeing of unborn children, and just want everyone to convert to being vegan/vegetarian for moral reasons.

              • Belladonna

                Quite agree Phil. People could watch Forks Over Knives which is online and also many libraries have it in stock. Nothing wrong with converting to veganism for moral reasons, in fact it is morally wrong not to unless you condone suffering of animals.

                • weka

                  But vegans cause suffering to animals by their diet choices, so why are they more moral than someone who eats meat that has been ethically raised and slaughtered?

                  • Belladonna

                    Rrrright – how do vegans cause suffering to animals?

                    • lprent

                      I’ve seen a few “vegan” cats. 😈

                    • weka

                      “Rrrright – how do vegans cause suffering to animals?”

                      Direct animal deaths from grain crop harvesting (there’s a bit in the wiki entry on veganism if you are interested). Indirect deaths and suffering from ecosystem degradation from industrial monocropping and the flow on effects from food miles.

                      I guess Forks Over Knives left those bits out.

                • bad12

                  This particular animal tho would ‘suffer’ if He didn’t get to munch on bacon’n’beef and other meaty treats which have been part of the diet for way too long to think about quitting the practice of devouring His fellow animals…

              • weka..you asked for the evidence-cache..


                “..to convert to being vegan/vegetarian for moral reasons…”

                of course there are ‘moral reasons’ to be vegan..

                ..every piece of meat/bye-product involves the (usually cruel life)/suffering/premature death of an animal..

                ..and i see you claim to ‘support animal rights’..?


                ..do you put that ‘support’ for ‘animal rights’ on hold when you are eating yr non-factory’ (yeah right!) chooks and eggs..?

                ..and when you eat pigs raised in the (well-documented) horrors of their lives..?

                ..and when you eat veal (baby cows)..?

                ..when you eat yr cheese that has calf-guts as a binding agent..?

                ..when you eat fish..?

                (didyaknow fish have a central nervous system similar to humans..?

                …so..imagine if you can..a hook thru yr lip/in yr guts..fighting for yr life..

                ..and then if you are lucky ..bludgeoned to death..or just left to suffocate..?

                ..not a lot of those ‘animal rights’ that you support’ going on in any of those..eh..?

                ..and are you seriously arguing that the jury is still out on red meat..?..

                “.. I’m also wondering if you are inferring that because you do well on a vegan diet, then eating animal products is bad. But that would just be daft wouldn’t it…”

                ..um..!..no…that isn’t ‘daft’..surely you must learn from examples..?

                ..i mean..it was only a decade ago that being vegetarian was regarded as ‘loopy’…

                ..and vegan is about in that space now..

                ..but that is fast changing..(there are now two vegan cafes within a couple of k’s from where i live..(unheard of only a few years ago..)

                ..and have you seen bill clinton since he went vegan..?

                ..whoar..!..so sharp he cuts..

                ..and of course tama iti..went vegan while in the slammer..

                ..and has never looked better..

                ..use yr eyes..and open yr mind..eh..?

                ..it’s your quality of life we’re talking about..eh..?

                ..and of course..all those ‘animals’ whose ‘rights’ you so ‘support’..eh..?

                ..phillip ure..


                • weka

                  Animals die to provide vegan meals. Veganism currently contributes to industrial agriculture’s degradation of the environment. Lots of plant cruelty too. And lots of food miles that contribute to AGW.

                  I eat happy meat, not the meat you describe. It’s a failing of the vegan movement to not be able to tell the difference.

                  Red meat is a healthy food option for many people within a well balanced diet.

                  I followed your link to your blog. I searched back through a number of pages and see mostly political posts on dairy. Nothing even remotely close to a citation that demonstrates the milk leaches calcium from bones. Unless you link to some evidence I will assume you are repeating a science myth (one I happen to be familiar with btw, so will be interested to see what evidence you find).

                  I can provide evidence for everything I have just said, but won’t until you start doing so for your assertions.

                  I think your choosing to be vegan is absolutely fine, good on you. You are also entitled to your beliefs. But you are deluding yourself if you think that you are making more ethical eating choices than I am.

                  • “..Animals die to provide vegan meals..”

                    crikey..!..that one sounds like a serious groin-stretcher of an assertion..


                    ‘happy meat’..?..how can you tell..?..does it smile as you cut into it..?..does it say thank you..?

                    ..does it tell you how ‘happy’ it is to have sacrificed its’ life..so you can have a chew..?

                    ..or does it just have a smiley emoticon on the packaging..

                    ..or did yr butcher tell you how ‘happy’ the animal was to lay down its’ (shortened) life for you..

                    ..and re ‘red meat..?’..who told you that..?..the red meat industry..?..or yr mirror..?

                    ..and re yr claim of finding no evidence..?..that cache is huge..so i suggest more specialised searches..

                    ..namely..dairy/diabetes..dairy/obesity..dairy/high blood pressure..dairy/premature-death..?

                    ..y’know..!..dig down..!..you know how to use a searchengine..don’t you..?..

                    ..and i guess there isn’t much to say in response to yr claim that eating animals/enabling the lives of utter misery so many animals suffer..

                    ..just so you can chew..

                    ..is as ethical as spurning causing such miseries..

                    ..that is just logically wrong..on so many levels..

                    ..i guess readers can make their own calls on that..

                    (um..!..are you in ‘the industry’..?..

                    ..by any chance..?..)

                    ..and of course..what i speak is ‘economic-treason’..

                    ..in the charnal house that is new zealand..eh..?

                    phillip ure..

                    • weka

                      You are entitled to your beliefs but unless you provide some evidence for them, then it’s just belief.

                      So, back to the start. You are supporting misrepresentation of science.

  11. Tracey 12

    Ms Collins introduced the Electoral Amendment Bill yesterday which will require political parties to declare loans of more than $15,000 as well as donations, and outlaw supporters wearing rosettes and coloured ribbons on election day.

    The loans provision is intended to close a loophole which could allow parties to hide donations as loans and later forgive them – delaying the need to disclose them until after the election.

    While Dunne wants rule changes around registration and de-registration


  12. Tracey 13

    Are the 3 candidates going to be at the rally today?

    The Fairness at Work rally organisers said changes to the Employment Relations Act will allow employers to refuse to negotiate a collective agreement with employees, pay new workers less than the rate of the collective agreement, and be able to opt out of industry agreements to undercut wages.


  13. Chooky 14

    Re Morning Report:

    Interesting that Steven Joyce is spinning against Wellington having an airport extension….for all sorts of reasons that don’t ring true.

    However what is true is the multi- billion dollar motorway proposed up the Coast ….

    (that no sane NZer wants because in recessionary times the money should be spent on: state schools, restoring adult continuing education, youth trades apprenticeships, employment opportunities for NZers, venture capital for high tech and scientific industries, affordable quality public health and dentistry, looking after the those at the bottom of the economic heap, Christchurch citizens and Christchurch, environment protection etc etc)

    ….this multi- billion dollar motorway road leads straight to an alternative site for Wellington airport near Raumati

    Tell me if I am wrong. Tell me who owns shares in this area.Tell me who they bought them from ie who previously owned this site.Tell me who is great friends with the previous owner of this site.

    Tell me …tell me …if there is not something fishy here…and why shouldnt Wellingon have an AIRPORT EXTENSION?!

    • Colonial Viper 14.1

      Ah another state funded property developers windfall.

    • bad12 14.2

      Ummm, because an airport runway extension isn’t really necessary…

      • Chooky 14.2.1

        @bad12 ….well actually the Wellington City Council thinks it is necessary

        • bad12

          Remind me to prostrate myself befor such an august body next time i am down that way, got a list by any chance of those who voted in favor of wrecking every poor person in Wellington’s favorite fishing spot???,

          We will have to ‘see’ won’t we whether the newly elected Wellington City Council which is likely to be heavily Green ‘want’ an extended runway that if what at least one ‘expert’ believes because of the height of the Newlands Hills to the North will become as dangerous as the Queenstown one is to fly in and out of at certain times,

          The fact that the present City Council is all a gush for extending the present runway befor any work has been done to study the effects of the surrounding hills on both safety and noise pollution of the surrounding suburbs just tells me that a number of them need replacing…

  14. Tim 15

    An good lesson for the yikes of Pulla Bent, Bette Lynch and all the other ‘punish the beneficiary’ cheerleaders (not just Jamie Oliver):

    • McFlock 15.1

      Promising that you will show brilliant recipes that utilise stale bread is all very well. But poor people’s bread does not go stale, Jamie. It goes mouldy. And if you had ever been poor, you would know that.

      Sums it up, really.

      • Tracey 15.1.1

        “Promising that you will show brilliant recipes that utilise stale bread is all very well. But poor people’s bread does not go stale, Jamie. It goes mouldy. And if you had ever been poor, you would know that.”

        It doesn’t stay around long enough to go stale, poor people get hungry too.

        • Greywarbler

          Good one Tim – a good take on Jamie and the foodie industry.

          And if my bread gets a bit of mould I pick it out and check the rest of the slice, and then I toast what’s left. I don’t buy $1 white but $4 grain and each slice is good stuff and worth
          say 20c. That’s how you manage if you’re on a budget, and want to save for the charm of takeaways.

  15. remo 16

    WMD in Damascus? oops. When did we hear THAT before?
    Do we follow the quack of uncle Donald into next quagmire behind the bonesman kerry?

    “Ayssar Midani, a French Syrian citizen and political activist, joins us from Damascus to talk about the latest developments in Syria. We talk about the history of the terrorist jihadi insurgency in the country and their prior use of chemical weapons, the latest attack and claims of satellite evidence proving that the attack was not launched by government officials, and the likely consequences of a US-led strike on the country.”


    • Colonial Viper 16.1

      War is a great opportunity for Bechtel, Haliburton, Academi, etc. to earn a few more billion tax payer provided dollars.

      • Tracey 16.1.1

        Am surprised the Russians are anti a strike on the airforce… they will make heaps selling the replacements…

        • Colonial Viper

          For the Russians, who have a huge amount of foreign currency reserves already, a stable and intact ally in the region is by far the strategic priority.

          It’s worth remembering that Russian political economic calculus is quite different to the highly American crony capitalist version of decision making that we are constantly exposed to. Solidarity, loyalty and the long game is second nature to the ruskies. Quick demonstrable gains, political expediency and the next two quarters’ financial results are key drivers for the US.

          • Poission

            For the Russians, who have a huge amount of foreign currency reserves already

            There are calls for Russia and China (central banks) to implement economic sanctions on the US/UK if they use military force against Syria.

            Selling of US gvt securities will be a significant constraint as the US will only have around 50b in cash by OCT and will be unable to raise debt ( without congress approval) due to the debt ceiling.

            • Colonial Viper

              Thing is, as long as foreign countries are willing to trade real goods and services in exchange for USD, the Federal Reserve can keep crediting (creating) as much currency as is required.

              • McFlock

                but the more they print, the less attractive the USD is as a benchmark.

                Interestingly enough, China deliberately undervalued the RMB to help its manufacturing industry and it has a semi-fixed value (rather than a completely free floating value). Seemed to work okay for them.

                • Colonial Viper

                  but the more they print, the less attractive the USD is as a benchmark.

                  Oh, absolutely. The BRICs are starting to shift away from the dollar, and discussion of the USD losing its reserve currency status is no longer tin foil hat stuff. But as long as nations are willing to exchange real ite,s like beef, oil and heroin for USD, and to hold USD as a primary store of foreign reserves, the US has got free financial reign to keep pushing on.

        • Colonial Viper

          Saudi Arabia has a horrific human rights/womens rights record, as well as a willingness to use violence against peaceful demonstrators and political opponents. How can the US justify selling billions in advanced arms to them?

          Uh, on second thoughts, no answer required.

    • joe90 16.2

      Again, it’s the cartoonist conveying political realities with pictures.



  16. grumpy 17

    …meanwhile….across the ditch Labour in Tasmania is being decimated through association with the Greens. A lesson for Labour here.

    “Tasmanian federal Labor MPs told The Australian they in large part blamed the party’s relationship with the Greens at the state and federal levels for the potential slide back into oblivion.

    Dick Adams, a stalwart of the party who the latest polling suggests will fail to defend a margin of 12.3 per cent in rural Lyons, said the party should review its power-sharing deal with the Greens in the state…

    “The Liberals … are using it in their ads – ‘Green means Labor’ – and that sort of caper,” Mr Adams said. “The Greens have created an image in Tasmania that they oppose everything. And that’s the general feeling that 80 per cent of Tasmanians would have about the Greens.

    “The majority of Tasmanians think that the Greens are a negative force to jobs, growth and economic activity.”…

    The Labor MP for the marginal seat of Braddon, Sid Sidebottom, who faces a strong challenge from Liberal Brett Whiteley, agreed that Labor was being damaged by its association with the Greens. “There are people who view the Greens as anti-development,” he said. “

    • Greywarbler 17.1

      Good point grumpy. Greens need to stress they are wide thinkers, want better lives and opportunities now stretching into the future. No posthole ‘diggers’ like the right wing in Australia who want to tether everybody to now, going deeper in the same spot with old enterprise like mining until there is nothing left to mine. Ensuring that there will soon be failing and falling opportunities with no regard for the difficulties of the future and nothing to offer the country for the future except more golf courses and more land speculation that decimates the natural environment.

      • grumpy 17.1.1

        …and good point Greywarbler. The issue is Labour becoming so close to the Greens that they are seen as anti development and further left. That just drives the centre to the Coalition (National in NZ) and Labour get decimated.

        A lesson for NZ and the LP leadership and future direction decisions.

        • framu

          “that they are seen as anti development”

          are the greens anti development?


        • Greywarbler

          grumpy and framu
          I am thinking about the strength of misinformation and misperception. Greens have to fight this. It would be a shame to have it continue in Tasmania to the case of Labour being disadvantaged.

          But the parties may have to pull apart, if Labour itself is the old dinosaur that can’t see how to change and can’t evolve. It is possible as I said before that the Oz ‘digger’ will be the logo for all their political attitudes. Digging themselves a hole, which will eventually get so deep they will find it hard to get out and change course in a measured way. Result – there will be upset people, scapegoating, more poverty, and both Oz and Kiwi battlers possibly uniting in anger and taking it out on each other.

        • millsy

          The Greens arent anti mining, they just dont want it done on conservation land or our beautiful national parks.

          Plus, they are the only party who wants to stick the royalties in an investment fund and not piss it all against a wall like Bridges wants to.

          • Chooky

            @millsy +1 It is hard to fault the Greens….once Labour is sorted out the Left will be a force to be reckoned with….

  17. Tracey 18

    I am interested in Charter schools and the decision that teachers there don’t have to be qualified teachers. Qualified teachers go through a police screening process before teaching our children.

    Ms Bennett says she expects “partnership” schools to follow the new rules. Could someone get on her case to turn expectation into guarantee.


    • Clashman 18.1

      There is currently a surplus of qualified teachers in this country and they continue to train large numbers every year.
      I would hazard a guess that many if not most who are eventually employed as teachers in charter schools will be qualified teachers. (at slightly above the minimum wage of course)

      • McFlock 18.1.1

        That’s aspirational: send your kid to a charter school, there might well be a 50:50 chance that their teacher is qualified. At a hazardous guess, of course…

      • Tracey 18.1.2

        don’t be so sure. People like Banks don’t care about unemployment rates. He believes the best person to teach maths is a financial advisor, with real world experience. Hell he might go for the job himself after serving on the Huljich Board and being temporary CEO.

  18. Draco T Bastard 19

    The Entrepreneurial State

    Watch Mariana Mazzucato, a Professor of Economics at the University of Sussex, discuss the role of government in innovation and economic growth. In her latest book The Entrepreneurial State she argues that active state investment has been the secret behind most radical innovations, and that this requires economists to analyse the state as market ‘maker’ and market ‘shaper’ not just market ‘fixer’.

    My bold.

  19. Greywarbler 20

    Sounds promising for clear headed thinking DTB. Thanks for the headsup. Cf to Joyce this morning giving his ideas on how Christchurch or somewhere can get enterprise, I think Wellington.

    His idea for busin ess and enterprise growth is getting investment in a location which then makes jobs and so families can make lives. Ooh goody – he has been reading his Form 5 textbooks again on Theory of Domestic Economies. And what has he done – mostly make money out of playing other people’s music, advertisising, and talking about sports, and criticising others or making fun of people. Especially anybody who strives to do their job acceptably, advance the lives of others and provide essential services as opposed to providing wallpaper for the ears (as Peter Ustinov termed modern music) as is much of radio content.

  20. Greywarbler 22

    Another Indian women’s murder has come into the news. She was training to be a teacher, ready to work in the world of intelligence and ideas and skills and wages. She went out but never came home, was found and the report says she has been raped, tortured and killed. Her family notified the police but after a few hours decided they were doing nothing to search for her whereabouts. I think five men have been arrested.

    Is this how modern society will go? All our efforts as civilisations evolve for each person to be given respect and rights to be free from others with wants using and imposing on their lives? Pakistan, I have heard of a midwife being barked at implying she was a bitch on heat because she was seen out at night going to attend her mothers. In India, the fast-moving middle class is not spreading a more civilised attitude to women along with its higher development. A book that was featured on Radionz might interest – The Ivory Swing. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Janette_Turner_Hospital

    Countries that impose strict rules on movement of women, then seem to excuse disgraceful behaviour of males, the excuse being possibly that the mistreated woman had looked at them. Often the most ‘religious’ carry out the most heinous crimes and yet still regard themselves as holy and righteous. Western women are seen as open to exploitation by Asian men in Britain, as they don’t have to answer to blood thirsty family members. The Lebanese? rioted with the Oz young men in Sydney over supposed treatment of the women of one side or the other. What will happen in China? Will they do what the Sicilians used to do and kidnap a girl and hold her until her honour was in doubt and then she had to marry the man as there was no other future for her.

    Phillipa Gregory writes a lot of historical novels. This morning one was being discussed. In the conversation a reference to the leading women of the age was made – they seemed to be a mixture of breeding stock and political pawns. So it’s a fight to keep standards of behaviour from slipping right back, and I fear as we are overburdened with population, and divisions, we will see more confused attitudes to women, and those to men. Going into a convent in medieval times was not necessarily an incarceration to be feared. It could be a haven against men offering a settled life, regular meals, and safety.

  21. Colonial Viper 23

    Wars preplanned: “We’re going to take out 7 countries in 5 years”

    Worthwhile remembering what is happening now in the ME.

    General Clark (ret.) is former Supreme Commander NATO Allied Forces (Europe).

  22. bad12 24

    An are you for real piece in today’s Herald online, the Anonymous Group, underground computer hackers, have said that Dunne, Banks, and, Key are now Targets to have their computers burgled and any dirty laundry found exposed to the public,

    This, along with having ‘taken down’ the GCSB computer system for a day in what Anonymous describe as a feint to get the spooks scrambling while they half inched some juicy stuff elsewhere, is in response to the passing of the GCSB Legislation and the crucial part each of those named above played in the passage of that Legislation, the ‘lesson’ being apparently ‘you reap what you sow’,

    Slippery the PM had no comment to make, other than a general tantrum over the stars having appeared to align to make His life a misery on too many fronts to allow a specific tantrum,

    Laughably, Dunne was perplexed and couldn’t remember (a) if He had any secrets that were not already public knowledge,(believe me wee Petey you do), and (b), can’t remember where He might have hid said secrets,(try the file marked ‘s**t’ that would destroy the remnants of my tattered credibility Pete),

    i of course cannot do anything but roundly abhor such behavior, after all it is illegal right, i am off now to have my Doc check out what the sound of that mad laughter emanating from up my sleeve is…

  23. Treetop 25

    How about Cunliffe, Robertson and Jones sitting down for a cup of tea and inviting the media?

    One condition, they are not allowed to discuss politics.

    This would show Key how to have a cup of tea.

  24. Linz 26

    FARC! Just watched Question Time. Trevor Mallard just undid any gains we might have got yesterday by accusing Nick Smith of squatting in the Minister’s residence when he resigned as Minister whenever it was. Own goal Trevor. Smith said he needed that time to find somewhere else for his kids to live. Definitely own goal, Trev. FARC! FARC! FARC!

    • Winston Smith 26.1

      Someone on here suggested gagging Mallard and putting in a bag…the idea has merits

    • Ennui 26.2

      Mallard, when I read the paper this morning was one of those purported to be backing Robertson….which begs the question of which other idiots might remain on the front bench by backing Robertson..the paper speculated Goff as well…plus a gfew others who were the rump of the remaining MPs tainted by neo liberalism and the do nothing radical Clark years.

      If the speculated names of those supporting Robertson are correct, they pretty much confirm theories from Trotter, Bradbury and others that they have, and are trading off with the “identity” groups to keep control of the party direction. This is a battle they might win, the price will be an election route. Conversely if they lose to Cunliffe the Left stands at least an even chance at the election. So either we select Robertson and gift National a victory OR….we do this all again and have to wait three more years.

    • ScottGN 26.3

      In defence of Mallard does anybody in here think that Housing NZ would let a tenant occupy a property rent free (that they were no longer entitled to) for up to six weeks just so their kids could finish the school term?

  25. Winston Smith 27

    So why arn’t Cunliffe, Robertson and Jones asking questions in the house?

    • bad12 27.1

      Wait 5 while i consult the crystal balls for an answer…

      • Winston Smith 27.1.1

        Being JKs away for 3 weeks you’d think they’d want to question JK while they have the chance, not a good look by the candidates

        • bad12

          You appear to be the only one who really gives a s**t, there will be plenty of opportunity to examine the Slippery little shyster after His latest overseas sojourn and by then Labour will have the new leader firmly ensconced on the front Bench,

          Of course your wee worry is probably a constant nag in the back of the PM’s little empty cranial cavity as we all know it’s when the leader of the National rabble is ‘out of the country’ it is the prime opportunity when the challenger, in this case Judith Collins, likes to eviscerate the incumbent with a sharp object lesson in back stabbing…

          • chris73

            Do you really think JK will be rolled anytime soon or just wishful thinking?

            • bad12

              Judith Collins openly and publicly said last week that She wants the PM’s job, Collins was careful to not say exactly when She expects to get that job,

              Define anytime soon, for Collins to openly tout for the top job She must know that She has a reasonable amount of support in the Caucus to protect Her from an immediate holiday in Siberia,

              If the numbers keep going South for National and Slippery keeps shoving His foot into His own mouth anything can happen,

              Ask Jim Bolger and Jenni Shiply about that…

            • ScottGN

              There might just be a few people in National thinking that next year they can’t afford another strategic blunder like the teapot debacle in the middle of an election campaign. Key’s star is waning, plain and simple.
              He usually goes to inordinate lengths not to apologize for anything yet today felt compelled to issue an apology for the dumbass comments about walking away from people in Christchurch.

    • TheContrarian 28.1

      A) beforeitsnews is a shill site and not a valid source for anything

      B) their link for the “evidence” is from WND which is a far right, birther, tea party site

      C) the UN says no such a thing. A person associated with the UN has her suspicions.

      Use your brain.

      • Chooky 28.1.1

        @ TheContrarian….oh!!!!? …well blame it on my teenage son…he put it up ( ie Chooky’s young rooster)…always blame the roosters

        ….never-the- less I wouldn’t mind betting that the ‘rebels’ were the ones who did the gassing and not Bashir al -Assads forces….and there does seem to be scepticism and support for this possibility from other sources eg Checkpoint interview tonight with an expert on Syria who is no friend of Assads….

        …time will tell ….as it did with spurious WMD arguments for bombing Iraq

        …in any case it will be disgraceful if the West bombs Syria…no good can come of this!

        • TheContrarian

          I don’t proclaim to know who originally fired the warheads but I certainly don’t believe any of the shit on beforeitsnews. Secondly, this situation is nothing like Iraq. There were no chemical weapons in Iraq at all. In this instance there are. Secondly the US were balls to the wall in readiness to hit Iraq. Here they seem to want nothing To do with the conflict and have been at pains to avoid it all together

          • Ugly Truth

            “this situation is nothing like Iraq”

            Except that both countries were targeted by the US military.

            “This is a memo that describes how we’re going to take out seven countries in five years, starting with Iraq, and then Syria, Lebanon, Libya, Somalia, Sudan and, finishing off, Iran.”


            • TheContrarian

              Says one person several years ago under a different government in the wrong order in light of a new government that could have long ago targeted Syria if they wanted to and even now are making no moves towards all out regime change.

              Like I said elsewhere Ugly, you have created yourself an unsolvable problem. Everything can be explained as part of your grand conspiracy and if it doesn’t fit then it can be safety ignored. You sound like a creationist who says nothing that contradicts that bible can be valid. But in your case, anything that conflicts with your conspiracy is necessarily a lie or incorrect. No other position can be tolerated.

              • bad12

                Given the choice of believing the words of a US General or the Contrarian anonymously commenting on a computer network, no surprises WHO we believe is there TC,

                It sure as hell aint you…

              • “Like I said elsewhere Ugly, you have created yourself an unsolvable problem.”

                You don’t know what you are talking about, Contrarian.

            • bad12

              That’s a stunning interview with the General on so many levels, s**t i have 20 odd television channels streaming into my home 24 hours a day and not one of them has seen fit to broadcast this interview which in my opinion everyone should either view or read,

              It would make a good center piece in a Post to discuss (a) whether or not there is any belief that this country’s soldiers should be involved in any further US ‘adventures’ and (b) is now the time when we on the left begin to mount open demonstrations against these US ‘adventures”…

          • Chooky

            @TheContrarian….sorry…just don’t believe your last point….many say they have been ready and waiting for a pretext …or incident…. or contrived incident …

            …..and dont forget USA’s CIA role in supporting Saddam hussein carry out the chemical weapons attack on Iran in 1988…rather hypocritical don’t you think?

            • Colonial Viper

              From a nation founded on the extermination of hundreds of tribes of native peoples.

              • TheContrarian

                “From a nation founded on the extermination of hundreds of tribes of native peoples.”
                So? Those tribes exterminated those before them also.

                It’s a historical precept that nations have risen on the backs of the native population who, in many cases, rose on the backs of others. The USA is neither unique in this nor are they worse than any other in this historical precept.

                • weka

                  “Those tribes exterminated those before them also.”

                  [citation needed]

                • Colonial Viper

                  Well Contrarian, which of these other countries you refer to trumpeted themselves as guardians of freedom, opportunity and humans rights for all?

                • Jackal

                  “nor are they worse than any other in this historical precept.”

                  [citation needed]

            • TheContrarian

              Then they had there opportunity a long time ago. There has been a pretext for over a year now.

    • Jackal 28.2

      The inspectors haven’t been able to inspect the second area they were going to look at. I don’t think they’ve reported back yet.

      The main problem here is that even an evidential search of the areas attacked might not show exactly who used the chemical weapons.

      While the US are claiming to categorically know who used the chemical weapons (presumably because they have intelligence on who supplied Syria with the chemical ingredients to make the sarin gas), it is still feasible that rebel fighters somehow attained the weapons and then used them on their own people to initiate NATO’s involvement.

      It is also feasible that Asad ordered the attack because he doesn’t respect western forces or that a rogue element in his army disobeyed orders. At this stage we simply don’t know, which is a good breeding ground for the conspiracy theorist articles like the one you linked to Chooky.

      Another issue is that even if it is found that the Syrian regime used the weapons, they are not going to be blamed. That is apparently one condition of the inspectors being allowed into the areas affected. It could be that NATO forces attack even if there is no evidence made known to the public. It could be that there is no evidence and Syria is attacked anyway.

  26. chris73 29

    Who exactly is T. Mallard trying to damage, National or Labour or himself? Well hes taken over from S. Jones as parliaments biggest wanker…

    • i thought that was more an example of smith troughing…than mallard wanking..

      ..(and i gave smith a special award for his piss-poor excuse for scamming six weeks of two grand a week rent..+ servants/guards..etc..

      ..his excuse is that his ‘children were going to the local school’…(now we are talking wellington here..somewhere where everything is ‘local’..

      ..(maybe anyone caught squartting in a vacant hnz house cd use the same reasoning/excuse..?

      ..’im just doing what nick smith did..my kids go to the local school’..

      ..i’m sure that will work for them..eh..?

      phillip ure..

  27. is it true the media will only be allowed into these meetings for the opening speeches..?..

    ..if so..that sucks..

    ..phillip ure..

  28. Muzza 31


    If Barack Obama decides to attack the Syrian regime, he has ensured – for the very first time in history – that the United States will be on the same side as al-Qa’ida.

    Alrighty then….

    • TheContrarian 31.1

      No not for the very first time. Al Quada were no friends of Saddam as well as being no friends of the Soviets.

      • phillip ure 31.1.1

        al-qa’ida also worked for the americans in their overthrow of gaddaffi..

        ..this is just iraq..libya..redux..

        ..and the corporate-media whores are playing their part in manufacturing consent..

        ..yapping along like feral dogs of war..

        ..unthinking fools that they are…

        phillip ure..

        • Chooky

          @ phillip ure…..+1

          ….and didn’t Osama bin Laden once work for the USA in ousting the Russians from Afghanistan?….irony upon irony

          • phillip ure

            chooky..yeah..he was a cia-operative for many years..starting in afghanistan..

            ..the cia/americans armed and funded osama..and his warriors..(‘straw-enemies’..?..)

            ..when they enlisted him as an agent in their cold war proxy war with the (then) soviet union..

            ….and you know what really puzzled me at the time..?

            ..how so many on ‘the left’ supported the american-overthrow of gadaffi..

            ..( i guess they studiously ignored the facts that libya was the most secular of all the arab states..

            ..that women there had it better than any other country..

            ..free education for all..from pre-school to university..(consequently libya was the most ‘educated’ of all the arab states and amongst the most educated of all the countries in the world..

            ..everyone had free health care..from basic to operations..

            ..when couples married they got a wedding-grant of u.s.$50,000 from the govt..

            ..and a social welfare system to put the west to shame….

            ..it puzzled me how the left here either couldn’t be bothered find out the true facts..

            ..and just swallowed the cia/american manufactured-consent to overthrow ‘the evil’ gadaffi..

            ..(he wore sunglasses indoors..didn’tyaknow..)

            ..and were just mired in their own ignorances/prejudices..

            phillip ure..

            • Colonial Viper

              Its a great way to keep your military industrial complex humming along. Help arm a whole lot of people who automatically become your enemies 10 years later, whom you then have to arm yourself against.

              Awesome closed loop awesomeness.

            • millsy

              Same with Iraq. Iraqi women could wear jeans and high heels (you know, look like women — sorry QoT and Karol), and go to university, and become doctors and lawyer. Now they will probably have acid chucked in their faces by the Koran-bashers.

              • Colonial Viper

                Same with Libya. Gaddafi ran a socialist, secular regime with free education and healthcare for all, women in senior positions in society, and now its fucked and given over to Islamist factions, including Al Qaeda. All the western corporates wanted were Libya’s gold reserves and oil reserves.

              • Chooky

                @ millsy …+100….what happens to the rights and quality of life of women and children is the most important!…they should be the ones who decide on war

            • Chooky

              @ phillip ure….I also couldnt understand why seemingly liberal lefties supported the Gaddafi overthrow and killing either …I thought it was disgraceful

              …..I would have long arguments with a friend about this ….and while admittedly Gaddafi was no saint.and was a horrible tyrant in many ways …he did make friendly overtures to the West ….and as Westerners ( eg teachers) who lived in Libya pointed out, they did have a very good social welfare system and standard of living….and the West has left many other tyrants elsewhere alone

              ….I guess it was the mix of African independence movement , which Gadaffi supported if not initiated, and issues of oil and water resources……

              • chooky..

                ..some feel the tipping-point was gadaffi setting up/funding a separate arab banking system..

                ..he intended to totally bye-pass the western banksters..

                ..to take/keep much of the arab countries oil-money..

                ..that was his death-sentence..

                ..(asseems to happen so often..follow the money..eh..?..)

                phillip ure.

      • lprent 31.1.2

        They sure weren’t friends. That was why the pretext of 9/11 to go to war with Iraq is so damn flimsy. Hussien was an arsehole. But not that particular brand of arsehole.

        Going to war with Iraq appeared to be Bush Junior needing to do something politically for domestic political reasons, and deciding to pick a easy target. Amazing what a decade of sanctions after a devastating military loss does to the military strength of a country.

        • Colonial Viper

          A lot of GW Bush’s senior advisors were very unhappy with Bush snr’s decision to not go all the way to Baghdad in 1991, seeing it as a lost opportunity to take control of a very important country in the ME, one with very important resources. These same advisors…Rumsfeld, Cheney, Wolfowitz, et al had been kicking around in the senior levels of DC for a long time, pushing their agenda of “American exceptionalism” since the 70’s.

          A lot of commentators suspect that an invasion of Iraq was therefore being examined from the early days of GW’s first term. The decision by GW to invade Iraq was strenuously opposed by many sections of the US military and intelligence community who not only knew that Saddam had nothing whatsoever to do with 9/11, but also feared that Iraq would become a quagmire giving advantage to the another majority Shi’a nation in the region: Iran.

          Saddam’s ba’athist regime was doggedly secular. He had no time whatsoever for the Taliban nor for Al’Qaeda.

  29. Muzza 32

    TC, Phil et al – correct ,AQ has been used in various guises now for decades, the link is interesting given the mainstream-ness of it. I’ve posted many such previously, with not too many here looking to argue with them these days, such as it is.

    TC, you don’t know what shill sites are bro, you have quoted that ridiculous shill site claiming to debunk chem trails, and while not seeking to enter a discussion about that topic, the site you have referenced is a blatant shill, yet you tried to call chooky out for a link above. Me thinks you need a re calibration my blinkard little flip flop,

  30. North 33

    Managed to catch only part of the 3rd Degree programme on the woman who got dragged for more than a kilometre by a car driven by her boyfriend.

    In short she has more balls than the narcissistic polemicist Michael Laws could ever dream about. He the author of a piece in a Sunday paper the other week in which he chose unabashedly to expose the pathologoical racism, classism, and inhumanity by which he is possessed – title something about “Feral Love”.

    Who’s the feral for Christ’s sake ? Who’s the human scum for Christ’s sake ? Karma karma karma Mad Michael !

  31. Colonial Viper 34

    Cunliffe announcement – Operatic Edition

    No doubt someone has already posted, but here goes again…

    • veutoviper 34.1

      Thanks for that, CV. Just the right note to end a long,busy day on.

      These guys appeal to my weird sense of humour – i also enjoyed their rendition of Shearer’s resignation speech which I posted here on Saturday morning although I was of two minds about it. They have upped their dress standard for this latest one!


    • Colonial Viper 34.2

      All welcome

      We are a talented nation, for sure. Let’s give every NZer a chance to shine!

  32. Chooky 35

    @ CV ….thankyou!….most enjoyable….much applause

  33. xtasy 36

    Inti-Illimani Quilapayún – El Aparecido

    YOUNG people in NZ, you may not get this, but some “old” guys and girls actually “fought” for a lot you take for fucking granted, perhaps read, study, do another brain check and re-connect. This is not about some aged wanting you to march in line with them, this is about a NEW awareness, for a NEW generation, for younger ones ALSO, to understand that only some form of solidarity, community, some common efforts and standards make any society function.

    It seems to be more important in some overseas places, but in NZ it has been abandoned by hateful, divisive, corrupt and manipulative policies.

    Perhaps take a study trip online, and look up the Greens, Mana, Labour or whatever, it can only offer another perspective, and I tell you, it is a lot more promising than the shit we get!

  34. xtasy 37

    Ileana Cabra PG 13 – Calle 13 – Pal Norte (vivo en Buenos Aires, di….


    musica de rap de buenos aires, Argentina

    For a bit of variety, de Latin America, Viva!

  35. xtasy 38

    Inti-Illimani – El pueblo unido jamás será vencido, de 1974, subtitula

    «El pueblo unido jamás será vencido» es un himno chileno, cuya música fue compuesta por Sergio Ortega y el texto escrito por el conjunto Quilapayún. Conocida en el mundo entero, “El Pueblo Unido” es una de las más famosas canciones de protesta de la historia. El tema tiene una música pegajosa y enérgica, destacando su estribillo que es un grito o consigna sólo con percusión, lo que facilita adaptarla para cualquier idioma.

    A bit strange in cow and sheep land Aotearoa, but perhaps reconsider your fortunes, as the commodity markets have been quite volatile by history. Never rely on Friedman economics!!!

  36. xtasy 39

    Oaxaca de Mexico – por favor

    Aotearoa NZ, do NOT forget, where you stand are standing to LOSE!

    El pueblo unido jamas cera vencido!!!

  37. xtasy 40

    Victor Chara, cantar –

    “Yo no canto por cantar – Victor Jara”


    So this man was by Pinochet and his troops declared a bloody “terrorist’, who do you bloody think is NEXT?? I t may bloody be you!!

    Beware of the crap that goes down, and do NOT fall into the consumerist slumber and advertising brain washing please, that is NOT freedom, it is BS!

  38. xtasy 41

    Just looking at some extremist muslim videos, I claim for New Zealand, we MUST NOT allow ANY influence onto our system, our schools, our education, health or ANY OTHER influence onto it, that is religiously based. The same applies to South Auckland communities, and with the damned introduction of Charter Schools, the divisive government we have, deserves to be voted out. The biggest problem for modern societies is negligence and division. We certainly do not want more division. Nor do we want sick and disabled forced into work, as some idiot Principal Health Advisor Dr Bratt from MSD now thinks needs to happen. He seems bizarre, corrupt and destructive, and we have more on him, by the way.

  39. tracey 42

    Didnt blair say he had proof of wmd before going into iraq…. but didnt.

    I see the pm is waiting to be called by the usa and for some polling before he decides his stance on syria.

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