Open mike 28/08/2016

126 comments on “Open mike 28/08/2016 ”

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1. TheExtremist 1

   28 August 2016 at 7:12 am

   Just been watching something about the Aus refugee camps in Nauru on Al Jazeera. It’ so depressing to hear as Australia and NZ having a special relationship when they are so fundamentally racist and abusive.

   We should be applying more pressure. Sadly we seem to lack political will
   • alwyn 1.1

     28 August 2016 at 2:11 pm

     Please tell us. What pressure do you really think we can apply to make Australia change its ways? Remember when you propose ideas that the Australian Government actions are supported by all the major political parties there and are popular with the Australian public.

     Should we declare war on them? Expel all Australian-national residents in New Zealand? Seize all Australian owned property and businesses?
     And if you choose to do any of those things what would you do if they retaliate?
     • TheExtremist 1.1.1

       28 August 2016 at 2:56 pm

       No we should publicaly call out their actions on the world stage. Whether it makes a difference or not is irrelevant. We should stand for human rights for all.

       But right wing scum like yourself probably don’t give a shit about human rights unless a buck can be made from it.
       • alwyn 1.1.1.1

         28 August 2016 at 3:20 pm

         “But right wing scum like yourself probably don’t give a shit about human rights unless a buck can be made from it.”
         You have no reason whatsoever to such a remark. But then evidence for something is never required in your dirty little world view is it?
         A**hole.

         “Calling out their actions on the world stage” isn’t going to apply any “pressure” at all to the Australian Government. Their actions are popular with their own population and they really don’t give a damn about what anyone else thinks of the matter.
         It would be about as successful as simply saying what vile people Iranians are for all the executions they carry out and for wanting to build nuclear weapons.
         It wasn’t those statements that had any effect. It was the sanctions that supplied the pressure. The only pressure we can apply to Australia would be something similar. There isn’t really anything effective we can do though is there?
         • TheExtremist 1.1.1.1.1

           28 August 2016 at 3:29 pm

           Being opposed to human rights abuses is a “dirty little world view”?
           • alwyn 1.1.1.1.1.1

             28 August 2016 at 4:10 pm

             Of course it is not.
             What is a “dirty little world view” is accusing someone who asks how you hope to achieve your aim, ie “to apply pressure on Australia” how you expect to achieve.
             Your second paragraph abusing me is the crappy composition of an idiot.
             How can you possibly think that my question makes me someone who is in favour of human rights abuses?
             You want to “apply pressure”. What can you propose that might have any such effect?
             • One Anonymous Bloke …

               28 August 2016 at 7:29 pm

               How dirty does a country have to be before a right winger will refuse to trade with them?

               Apartheid South Africa? Nope: the right opposed trade sanctions at every turn.

               Saudi Arabia? Nope.

               Pinochet’s Chile? You copy his policies, for fucks sake!

               Face it, at home you confiscate the proceeds of crime. If we applied that to your trade relationships the crown would be a whole lot richer.
     • DoublePlusGood 1.1.2

       28 August 2016 at 3:10 pm

       Travel ban all the government MPs would be a good start. Also go to Nauru and arrest persons in charge of the facility there on human rights crimes.
       • alwyn 1.1.2.1

         28 August 2016 at 4:15 pm

         I think we would have to ban all their MPs. Both the Government and the Opposition (at least most of them) are thoroughly in favour of the policy.
         On the other hand I doubt it would really inconvenience them unless, just possibly, they were going to pass through Auckland on the way to the US.

         “Go to Nauru and arrest them”. I’m not sure we would be able to. They probably have more military there than we could deliver to the island.
         Would that be an act of war I wonder?
   • Observer Tokoroa 1.2

     28 August 2016 at 4:42 pm

     .
     .Hi The Extremist

     . I admire your disgust at the bastardry of the Australians and their gulags dotted around the pacific ocean and indian ocean. A truly objectionable Mr John Howard got these established.

     He was extremely proud of his excruciating punishment of any people his redneck followers disliked.

     However if New Zealand were to complain too loudly Australia would simply say go and fix up your own problems. You’ve got 40,000 homeless people living in shitty conditions and you don’ t do a damn thing about it.

     The Kettle tries to avoid calling the pot black.
     .
     • In Vino 1.2.1

       28 August 2016 at 7:19 pm

       Well said OT.
     • Chris 1.2.2

       28 August 2016 at 10:04 pm

       How about we refuse to play sport against them? No rugby, just like South Africa. And get other countries to do the same.
       • In Vino 1.2.2.1

         28 August 2016 at 10:45 pm

         South Africa really cared about rugby – while whites only counted, it was their major winter sport, like here. Rugby is only minor 3rd winter sport in Oz, so forget it.
         • Chris 1.2.2.1.1

           29 August 2016 at 11:46 am

           Not just rugby, all sport. Netball, league – the lot, and encourage other countries to do it. Aussies love all sport and the relationship NZ has with Aussie makes the context very different to South Africa. The real problem is that nobody’s got the guts. If they did it it’d work.
2. Tony Veitch (not the partner-bashing 3rd rate broadcaster) 2

   28 August 2016 at 7:18 am

   “What we have undergone is a coup d’etat in slow motion, and we’ve lost. They’ve won.”

   Chris Hedges, author of ‘Death of the Liberal Class,’ in a lecture delivered at the University of Toronto, November 4th, 2010.

   Well, they [the corporates] may have won a battle or two, but the war is still raging. We, the activists are the front-line troops who will/must ultimately triumph. Literally, the survival of the human race is at stake.

   But we need to ‘self-ask’: what am I doing to bring about a favourable conclusion in this epic fight?

   Talk is never enough!

   March for democracy, 10th September.
   • weka 2.1

     28 August 2016 at 8:32 am

     What March?
     • Tony Veitch (not the partner-bashing 3rd rate broadcaster) 2.1.1

       28 August 2016 at 9:46 am

       Day of Action Aotearoa – check out It’s Our Future NZ.
       • weka 2.1.1.1

         28 August 2016 at 10:07 am

         thanks.

         https://itsourfuture.org.nz/event/day-action-across-aotearoa/

         I liked this,

         
         The Day of Action is a protest, but also an affirmation of reclaiming democracy. We will highlight and celebrate the positive alternatives in communities in Aotearoa – through organics, permaculture, community gardens; local renewable energy, EVs, divestment from fossil fuels; campaigns for better public transport and cycling; UBI, community finance, time banking; refugee support groups; etc.
   • weka 2.2

     28 August 2016 at 8:32 am

     What March?
     • swordfish 2.2.1

       28 August 2016 at 9:53 am

       Day of Action Aotearoa – check out It’s Our Future NZ.

       You ask twice … you get answered twice 🙂
       • weka 2.2.1.1

         28 August 2016 at 9:57 am

         Lol, it wasn’t me, it was the other weka messing with you ;-p
   • Colonial Viper 2.3

     28 August 2016 at 9:44 am

     Chris Hedges is correct, particularly for the US situation. A corporate coup d’etat took over government for the people of the people, sometime in the 1980s or early 1990s.
     • joe90 2.3.1

       28 August 2016 at 11:38 am

       A corporate coup d’etat took over government for the people of the people, sometime in the 1980s or early 1990s.

       5th August 1981, to be precise.

       On August 5, 1981, President Ronald Reagan fired every member of the air traffic controllers union (PATCO) who’d defied his order to return to work and declared their union illegal. They had been on strike for just two days.

       It was a bold and brash move. No one had ever tried it. What made it even bolder was that PATCO was one of only three unions that had endorsed Reagan for president! It sent a shock wave through workers across the country. If he would do this to the people who were with him, what would he do to us?

       […]

       And so it went. But Reagan could not have pulled this off by himself in 1981. He had some big help:

       The AFL-CIO.

       The biggest organization of unions in America told its members to cross the picket lines of the air traffic controllers and go to work. And that’s just what these union members did. Union pilots, flight attendants, delivery truck drivers, baggage handlers — they all crossed the line and helped to break the strike. And union members of all stripes crossed the picket lines and continued to fly.

       https://web.archive.org/web/20110908045727/http://www.michaelmoore.com/words/mike-friends-blog/30-years-ago-today
       • Colonial Viper 2.3.1.1

         28 August 2016 at 11:51 am

         Ahhhh, thanks for the history brief, joe90.

         Apart from supporting Reagan here, the AFL CIO have of course also been long time collaborators of the crony capitalists on the other side of the chamber.
     • Paul 2.3.2

       28 August 2016 at 3:28 pm

       A corporate coup d’etat took over government in NZ in 1984, led by Roger Douglas.
3. Muttonbird 3

   28 August 2016 at 7:52 am

   Fed Farmers: We reserve the right to poison New Zealand’s water ways.

   http://www.newshub.co.nz/nznews/environmentalists-exploited-river-cattle-saga—farmers-2016082806
   • weka 3.1

     28 August 2016 at 8:31 am

     He reminds me of a tobacco company shill.
   • whispering kate 3.2

     28 August 2016 at 8:47 am

     Mr Rolleston said the cattle were downstream from the Havelock North Bores – what sort of pathetic excuse is that, for what shouldn’t be happening ever in NZ. He said its a huge job to get on top of for farmers and there will be lapses from time to time – does that mean he can find it comfortable to allow 4000 people to get sick and just get over it. because of the odd lapse. Disgraceful conduct from Fed. Farmers.
     • b waghorn 3.2.1

       28 August 2016 at 9:06 am

       On easy ground such as one finds next to most bigger rivers , one man could easily put up 200mtrs of single wire electric fence in a day, two men with a tractor mounted post rammer could probably do close to a km. It’s not a big job ,it’s just some farmers are ignorant fools.
       • weka 3.2.1.1

         28 August 2016 at 9:16 am

         I’ve just commented below about the need to talk about regenerative practices. So fencing off waterways is the ambulance at the bottom of the cliff response (still necessary, we need ambulances). Beyond that is riparian plantings. But even that is not regenerative if we are still overstocking, over fertilising etc. There is still excess nitrogen in that system, still too much soil degradation, too much compaction etc.

         My point is that I think we need to get past this idea of we have to protect the waterways, esp now our drinking water is making us sick, and think about the whole system. Because fencing off the waterways so the e coli doesn’t get in the bore won’t stop the other problems and we will have another set of crises to manage next time, some of them much worse and harder to solve eg 20 years of campylobacter filtered through the ground (nicely fenced off) to the aquifer that will take 20 years to clear.
     • weka 3.2.2

       28 August 2016 at 9:11 am

       “what sort of pathetic excuse is that, for what shouldn’t be happening ever in NZ.”

       Many farms in NZ have waterways which stock have access to. That’s normal and for 150 years that wasn’t the kind of problem we have now. Not saying it was no problem, just that what we are dealing with now is intensitification, overstocking and dairying, and it’s those modern things that create problems for town water supplies. I don’t think it’s realistic to think that all waterways in NZ will be fenced off from all stock at all times. Rather than expecting that, I’d like to see us moving towards regenerative land use, where farming practices increase the health of land, and that may or may not include stock with access to water.

       I agree with you that Rolleston’s response was disgraceful, and it had all the hallmarks of PR spin. Rachel Stewart has been pointing out that the pro-dairy people will use the word ‘cattle’ instead of ‘dairy cows’ as a way to obfuscate.
       • whispering kate 3.2.2.1

         28 August 2016 at 1:36 pm

         I do not agree with you Weka although you are of course entitled to your own opinion. Livestock should never be allowed to drink or wade in our waterways defecating and peeing in the water and polluting it. It is realistic to expect farmers to keep their stock within fencing parameters, if it had been legislated years ago then it would be just second nature to fit it into their budgets just like any other legislation that other companies have to adhere to. This is an animal sewage problem and should be contained and dealt with.

         National have had a love affair with Federated Farmers for too long and needs to get tough with them but I fear intensification has become too much of a problem and the accompanying technology which should have been keeping up with it to manage it hasn’t eventuated to keep the sewage problem under control.
         • weka 3.2.2.1.1

           28 August 2016 at 2:10 pm

           “Livestock should never be allowed to drink or wade in our waterways defecating and peeing in the water and polluting it”

           Why?

           Animals pee and poo in water all the time. Nature has ways of dealing with that. Animal waste in water is not inherently polluting. It becomes pollution when the number of animals exceeds the natural systems’ abilities to process that waste (which is dependent on things like river flow). That’s basic ecology and basic sustainable land management. There are additional problems with issues like deforestation and other processes that alter the functioning of the ecosystem. But animal pee and poo is not itself pathogenic or necessarily a problem. Not all animal waste is ‘sewerage’. It’s what the humans (farmers) are doing that is the problem. Humans create the sewerage or not.

           All dairy farms should be fenced and have riparian strips as a basic minimum, because that kind of farming comes with high stocking rates and a lot of effluent. But in other situations eg large SI sheep and cattle stations, I think the bigger problems are from the foot traffic and from grazing out all the biodiversity along the water way, as well as the related problems from fertiliser use and general land management. The ratios of sheep poo to water flow are such that you don’t necessarily get ‘polluted’ water in all situations.

           Are those waterways in pristine condition? No. But if all land in NZ that has stock on it was mandated to be fenced, we’d still have a lot of the problems that come with farming. I’d much rather see those resources go into supporting farms to shift to regenerative agrictulture with riparian planting and fencing where appropriate to the design of that particular land but without being fixated on fence everything regardless.

           What I’m arguing here is approach. If we reduce it down to all animal shit is bad and all waterways must be fenced, I think we are going to created a different set of problems and avoid dealing with some of the more urgent ones.
         • b waghorn 3.2.2.1.2

           28 August 2016 at 2:11 pm

           The fear that many farmers have around river fencing in the sheep and beef sector is that they are going to be forced to fence water off in places that are hugely expensive that will require a lot of up keep and or mean fencing out large chunks of productive land, this is why i believe they are being so stubborn about it.
           • weka 3.2.2.1.2.1

             28 August 2016 at 2:18 pm

             Stock would still need to cross the waterways when being moved right? So there is the extra cost of gate systems presumably.

             It’s a tricky one, especially for smaller rivers and streams. They really need riparian planting too, but it’s easy to see how much land would be lost. Probably the riparian planting needs to be productive somehow.
             • b waghorn …

               28 August 2016 at 3:02 pm

               If your talking gate to get cattle trough a 1 or 2 wire electric it’s a $60 set up and an hour or so to build .
               It’s going to be about having a policy that forces cattle to be excluded with out having some dipstick with a letter or two behind his name pissing everyone of with unworkable ideas.
               • weka …

                 28 August 2016 at 4:18 pm

                 That’s why the blanket thing doesn’t seem right.

                 I was thinking about sheep, re the gates.
4. save nz 4

   28 August 2016 at 9:35 am

   Developers walk away from fast-track process as Auckland house prices top $1m

   http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=11701098

   (Unitary plan and developers doing as was expected and deciding not to even develop 10% of affordable houses and instead to use the more developer friendly unitary plan rules. With the SHA, only 26 out of 154 managed to complete some houses, but many made a killing out of the zoning changes. Great to see developers and land owners making money while delivering few houses, just as the government ordered (sarc.).
   • Paul 4.1

     28 August 2016 at 11:21 am

     The solution.
     A government that governs and builds houses for its citizens.
     • Tony Veitch (not the partner-bashing 3rd rate broadcaster) 4.1.1

       28 August 2016 at 1:17 pm

       Thanks, Paul.

       Two quotes from the film:

       “A nation’s prosperity isn’t measured in exports and show and false fronts, it’s in the way people live and how much sun they get, and where the kids grow up and how the sanitation works.”

       “40,000 families living in houses that should have been pulled down, living in rooms and flats, wherever they could find a roof over their heads, sometimes several families in one house. 40,000 families in 1935.”

       Ain’t progress wonderful!
     • Leftie 4.1.2

       28 August 2016 at 2:33 pm

       I have watched this Labour party doco in it’s entirety, and it’s good, can you upload the second part too please Paul?
       • Paul 4.1.2.1

         28 August 2016 at 4:50 pm

         https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Mbgu8fluKug&itct=CA4QpDAYACITCIroodSn484CFU7OWAodqygOGTIGcmVsbWZ1SKrmqKTqk-XGaw%3D%3D
         • Leftie 4.1.2.1.1

           28 August 2016 at 8:12 pm

           Thanks so much Paul, appreciated. It’s an excellent glimpse of our history that is just as relevant today, as it was back then. Given what is happening today, we really have gone backwards, haven’t we? The struggle is still the same, nothing has changed except the dates.
5. swordfish 5

   28 August 2016 at 9:47 am

   Poll Drought

   Number of Opinion Polls carried out Jan – late Aug:
   (* = middle years comparable to 2016)

   2016 12 *

   2015 18

   2014 45

   2013 30 *

   2012 28

   2011 33

   2010 24 *

   2009 22

   2008 43

   Next Roy Morgan already overdue, next Colmar Brunton waayyyyy overdue. I mean, what the flying hell’s going on here ???
   • Paul 5.1

     28 August 2016 at 10:00 am

     No landlines left to ring?
   • weka 5.2

     28 August 2016 at 10:05 am

     Any noticeable difference between the RM and the media ones (eg CB)? Just wondering of the TV networks are moving away from polling as part of the shift to infotainment.
   • Anne 5.3

     28 August 2016 at 10:11 am

     Bad times for the Nats. And maybe AG’s got some bad news coming about Saudi sheep and Mr McCully? Holding fire until Nat spin machine swings into action?
   • Lanthanide 5.4

     28 August 2016 at 10:33 am

     Well Roy Morgan only polls once a month, instead of every 2 weeks, as I’m sure you know.

     So that change by itself results in far fewer polls taking place.

     Also, the fact that Parliament was on recess for like 6 weeks also means pollsters would have actively avoided polling during that time, I think.
     • Colonial Viper 5.4.1

       28 August 2016 at 10:39 am

       RM had originally stated on their web page that their Aug poll was due on the 19th. Then they changed the date on their web page to the 26th. It is still hasn’t materialised.

       It may be something as simple as them prioritising contact centre resources to their more commercial polls this month.
     • swordfish 5.4.2

       28 August 2016 at 12:03 pm

       “Well Roy Morgan only polls once a month, instead of every 2 weeks, as I’m sure you know … So that change by itself results in far fewer polls taking place.”

       True. But that was already the case last year … and yet look at the comparison – 18 by late Aug 2015 / just 12 this year.

       And (naturally enough) Polls are usually fewest in number during the first year after the election. This is the first time in quite a while that the “middle” year of the electoral cycle (2016) has had fewer polls (Jan-Aug) than the “first” year (2015) (as you can see … 12 compared to 18).

       Colmar Brunton always release on a Sunday. The gap between each poll has always (well, for a very long time now) been 6 – 8 weeks (excepting the New Year/Summer Recess). It’s now an absolutely bloody astounding 12 weeks (to the day) since their last poll was released. All down, of course, to decisions made by One News.

       For Roy Morgan – see CV’s comment.
   • Stephanie Rodgers 5.5

     28 August 2016 at 10:52 am

     There hasn’t been much significant, sustained movement in the polls (beyond the notorious bounciness of the Roy Morgan) since 2014. So one possible explanation is that news editors got bored of printing stories saying “National still has whopping majority, Labour+Greens still kind of neck-and-neck with National, Winston still probably going to make the final decision”.
     • swordfish 5.5.1

       28 August 2016 at 1:13 pm

       Yeah, but Lab+Green and the Oppo Bloc are well up on their 36% (L+G) and 46% (Oppo) share at the Sep 2014 Election. And the Broad Right (Govt parties + Cons) are well down on their 53% share. (Luckily for National, a broad Nat-to-Lab swing has been largely disguised by the collapse of Colin Craig’s Conservatives).

       So the polls haven’t been static. It’s possible to discern a broad swing to the Left (and the wider Opposition) through the middle of last year, then a swing back towards the Right over the Summer months and more recently a move back to the Left and NZF.

       And that’s reflected in the National-to-Lab+Green aggregate comparisons.

       Take the Roy Morgans as an example:

       Nat percentage point lead over L+G:

       2014 Election: 11 points

       Roy Morgan Quarterly Averages

       2014 (4/4) 7 points

       2015 (1/4) 9 points
       2015 (2/4) 11 points
       2015 (3/4) 3 points
       2015 (4/4) 8 points

       2016 (1/4) 6 points
       2016 (2/4) 2 points
   • Leftie 5.6

     28 August 2016 at 2:37 pm

     National’s pollsters struggling to spin it in the Nats favour anymore?
     I think the Nats are in trouble Swordfish, and they don’t want any bad publicity of opinion polling to show it.
6. TheExtremist 6

   28 August 2016 at 10:05 am

   Illegal and desperate…
   http://www.fastcompany.com/3063185/trump-campaign-continues-to-send-illegal-solicitations-to-foreigners-despite-warnings
   • Colonial Viper 6.1

     28 August 2016 at 10:36 am

     Why did the woman hating Saudi Regime and other head chopping Gulf Tyrannies donate tens of millions to the Clintons?

     And why did the Clintons accept these millions?

     https://theintercept.com/2016/08/25/why-did-the-saudi-regime-and-other-gulf-tyrannies-donate-millions-to-the-clinton-foundation/
     • TheExtremist 6.1.1

       28 August 2016 at 11:02 am

       I don’t know but that’s not relevant to what I posted.

       Why don’t address the topic? After all, you were moaning about foreign donations the other day.
       • Colonial Viper 6.1.1.1

         28 August 2016 at 11:21 am

         I agree with your point that Trump is desperate for campaign donations.

         Yes, I also agree that Trump is raising far less money than Clinton and is having to push the boundaries harder.

         The real problem for Trump’s campaign financing is huge. Simply put, he cannot get the big donations from Wall St hedge funds, bankers and K street lobbyists that Clinton is able to solicit.

         That means that Clinton has been able to outspend Trump in TV and other media ads by more than 3 to 1.

         http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/clinton-vastly-outspending-trump-ads-hurting/
         • North 6.1.1.1.1

           28 August 2016 at 8:21 pm

           You know CV it would be fucking like horrific if you CV REALLY put your ahua behind Drumpf so why you been talking like that ?
     • Paul 6.1.2

       28 August 2016 at 11:18 am

       The million people who protested in Sana’a against the Saudi invasion were not even mentioned in MSM.
       Surprise, surprise…..the BBC, Guardian and the rest are just mouthpieces of the neo-liberal globalist establishment.
       • Colonial Viper 6.1.2.1

         28 August 2016 at 11:24 am

         RT also has a piece on how Saudi Arabia’s military campaign against 3rd world Yemen has now killed almost 4,000 civilians and displaced 3M people.

         But somehow, both the US and UK are happy to keep rearming the Saudis with billions in new weapon systems and munitions.
7. Lanthanide 7

   28 August 2016 at 10:47 am

   I guess all that hysteria about how Bernie would beat Trump, but Clinton wouldn’t, was all for naught, eh?
   • Colonial Viper 7.1

     28 August 2016 at 10:58 am

     Let me check my calendar…did November already come and go, Lanth? 😛
     • Lanthanide 7.1.1

       28 August 2016 at 1:57 pm

       No, it’s just Trump’s lead in the polls that came and went. And is very unlikely to ever return.
   • Stephanie Rodgers 7.2

     28 August 2016 at 11:07 am

     It’s funny you say “hysteria”, a word with its roots in assumptions about women’s anatomy and intelligence, when the most notoriously obnoxious Bernie Sanders fans were dudes.

     Clinton hasn’t beaten Trump yet. I expect she will – but the US system (voter suppression/Tuesday elections/electoral college etc) is such a clusterfuck I don’t think anyone should crow about it until the votes are counted (and the lawsuits are settled).
     • Colonial Viper 7.2.1

       28 August 2016 at 11:29 am

       Ah yes the pejorative “Bernie Bros” term that Clinton campaign supporters kept using.
     • Poission 7.2.2

       28 August 2016 at 1:26 pm

       it’s funny you say “hysteria”

       With the Clintons Hysteresis is a better noun, as it describes the time dependent selection and inbreeding of their past advisors and big business,

       https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Cq4_SO7UIAAv3VX.jpg
       • joe90 7.2.2.1

         28 August 2016 at 1:49 pm

         Speaking of who has whose ear…..

         You #antiwhites, leftist and #cucks have once again proved your time is coming, win or lose, trains not stopping…. pic.twitter.com/Rlx5B8uisb— David Duke (@DrDavidDuke) August 25, 2016

         #Hillary2016 has shown us who she is, she can try and soften up her message, but we know who she is now. #AltRight pic.twitter.com/rbYMoCocvY— David Duke (@DrDavidDuke) August 26, 2016
8. The Chairman 8

   28 August 2016 at 11:07 am

   Anybody here disappointed with Labour’s failure to advocate for the NZ Land Wars commemoration day being a new public holiday?

   Is it another telling sign Labour is still to centrist and out of touch?

   Thoughts?
   • Paul 8.1

     28 August 2016 at 11:16 am

     NZ Labour is the same as Clinton’s Democrats and the Blairite UK Labour party.
     Just another mouthpiece of the neo-liberal globalist establishment.
   • Craig H 8.2

     28 August 2016 at 11:17 am

     Centrist isn’t out of touch, and extra holidays are an extra cost to business. Perhaps we could replace Labour Day with it – society has given up on it anyway.
     • The Chairman 8.2.1

       28 August 2016 at 11:30 am

       “Centrist isn’t out of touch”

       It is today, considering the whole political spectrum has moved so far right the Greens are now often deemed far left.

       “Extra holidays are an extra cost to business”

       Indeed. And I’m sure a number of employers oppose them. Just as a good number of employees would greatly welcome another holiday.

       It’s interesting to see who Labour now represent.
       • Colonial Viper 8.2.1.1

         28 August 2016 at 11:37 am

         It’s interesting to see who Labour now represent.

         Primarily the socially progressive left leaning, top economic quintile (that is the top 20%) of NZers.

         The bottom 50% of NZers who earn less than $30,000 p.a. are talked about by Labour, but they are never prioritised above the interests of higher earning groups.
         • North 8.2.1.1.1

           28 August 2016 at 9:03 pm

           Utter crap CV…… for your unhappy wherever you’re at in your deepest being CV…… a bunch of yuppies university degrees etc lucrative public service positions…….that’s the 20%s for Labour ? Stop it ! Stop it right now ! You’re acting like a troubled child shrieking all sorts of shit that no one takes seriously. Grief counseling maybe CV ? Grief about what I don’t know but fuck CV……!
     • Colonial Viper 8.2.2

       28 August 2016 at 11:31 am

       Geeezus, talking about giving up on the principles of Labour Day, now you’re saying that we can’t afford to load business with any more labour costs like holidays???

       I’ll tell you what, I think that we need to go to a four day working week, and that penalty rates need to be brought back.

       What do you think about that for extra costs on business?
       • Craig H 8.2.2.1

         28 August 2016 at 9:32 pm

         I fully agree. 4 day, 30 hour week, double time for more than either of those, triple time if both, and also triple time on public holidays, 6 weeks annual leave.
   • Leftie 8.3

     28 August 2016 at 2:04 pm

     Anybody here disappointed with the National government’s anti Kiwi/worker legislation and National’s sycophantic supporters?
     Lets face it, in National’s ideal draconian and feudal world, workers would be enslaved to serve it’s elites on no pay at all and there would be no public holidays to give workers break either.

     No public holiday for New Zealand Land Wars

     The Government has made it very clear: The Land Wars commemoration day will not be a public holiday.

     A commemorative day was announced last week after pressure from local communities and a school-led petition asked for a day of recognition.

     However, Deputy Prime Minister Bill English said some people have misunderstood what has been agreed.

     “We’ve taken a view that there’s no need for a public holiday and in any case, there isn’t yet agreement about a date even just for a commemoration.”

     The decision had come out of discussion with the Maori Party, and English was “pretty sure” it had approved by Cabinet. Yet, Maori Party co-leader Marama Fox called for a public holiday and believed it was “still up for debate”.

     English also said any commemorations on the day should be locally-led.

     “The Government provides some resource, but this has to be something that people want to own, not something that’s pushed on them,” English said.

     “It’s up to the people who want to see a commemoration occur. There was a bit of a ceremony last week with the handover of one of the pa sites to Tainui where a significant battle occurred in the Waikato. There may be more of that. That’ll unfold as we go.”

     Prime Minister John Key said no progress had been made yet on choosing a date: “We are saying it’s likely there might be agreement at some point that that commemoration date can be set, but it would be also subject, I think, to iwi agreeing.”

     SWAP EXISTING HOLIDAYS FOR LAND WARS?

     A current public holiday could possibly we swapped out, says Labour leader Andrew Little – suggesting provincial holidays could be scrapped in lieu of a national New Zealand Wars commemoration day.

     “I don’t understand why we continue to celebrate provincial holidays when we haven’t had provincial government since 1863.”

     He agreed the Queen’s Birthday holiday could be another option.

     “There is a case to be made for an observance by way of a day off,” he said.

     However, Peeni Henare, Labour MP for Tamaki Makaurau, didn’t think it should be made a holiday.

     “It was made clear in the first consultation that happened a number of months ago that it would not be made a public holiday, but simply a day for commemoration,” Henare said.

     “There are some costs involved, there are already a number of public holidays … I’m quite clear as the Chairperson of the Ruapekapeka Pa Trust that it shouldn’t be a holiday.”

     Little supported the Government setting aside a day in principle: “We ought to be observing our own internal land wars in the way that we observe conflicts and casualties in other wars that we’ve participated in.”

     Little also believed more needed to be taught at schools about the New Zealand wars.

     “We shouldn’t be embarrassed by it, we should accept that it’s happened in the past, and we should learn from it and embrace what we have now, which is a set of legal arrangements that ensure that the Treaty of Waitangi is starting now to be observed – not only in the law but in the spirit.”

     Green Party co-leader Metiria Turei said a public holiday during winter should be part of consideration by the Government.

     <a href="http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/83459046/no-public-holiday-for-new-zealand-land-wars
   • Chris 8.4

     28 August 2016 at 5:19 pm

     Disappointment doesn’t capture these situations anymore. Par for the course is more apt a description these days.
   • Gabby 8.5

     28 August 2016 at 9:50 pm

     They don’t see the value of celebrating a one-sided victory.

     Discuss.
9. AB 9

   28 August 2016 at 11:42 am

   Lovely day here in Auckland – Friday nights storms are over except that Vector have cut power for hot water here on parts of the North Shore. Seems to be the poorer parts too, again.
   Now 36 hours and counting.
   This has been a persistent problem for a decade – a bit of rough weather in the north or west and no hot water for a day or more. According to Vector’s fault-line it is due to an ‘architectural issue’ in the old United Networks system acquired by Vector in 2002.
   In 2015 Vector paid 8 cents per share in dividends. Total share issue according to NZX is 995m shares.
   So it looks like that is $80m in 2015 alone paid out as unearned income for shareholders? I wonder how much it might cost to fix that ‘architectural issue’?

   Seems to me that all the 1990’s privatisation of these utilities was a scam, allowing some NZers (the ones well off enough to buy shares) to parasitise other NZers through high electricity charges and in this case poor service and reduced quality of life.
   • Colonial Viper 9.1

     28 August 2016 at 11:45 am

     Cutting the hot water circuits is a quick and dirty way (ahem) of reducing load on power distribution components that are near to failing, until something can be done to patch the system up.

     Over the next few years, as storm intensity increases, this ‘strategy of fragility’ is going to leave Auckland with bigger and bigger disruptions.
     • joe90 9.1.1

       28 August 2016 at 12:09 pm

       I’m pretty sure large parts of Auckland use pilot wire rather than ripple controlled hot water switching and in my experience restoring supply is paramount with pilot wires a secondary task.
       • Colonial Viper 9.1.1.1

         28 August 2016 at 12:36 pm

         OK that does make sense then, I didn’t know that about the system in Auckland, cheers.
     • North 9.1.2

       28 August 2016 at 8:36 pm

       So CV how was Labour responsible for that and how will your darling Drumpf fix that and do you promise ? Egg carried away with your bitterness and a plague on EVERYTHING accordingly. You didn’t used to be like this CV. What’s happened to you ?
       • Colonial Viper 9.1.2.1

         28 August 2016 at 9:02 pm

         I gave up on supporting both the greater evil and the lesser evil
         • North 9.1.2.1.1

           28 August 2016 at 9:11 pm

           And ended up Trump-eting. Like actually supporting the presently ascertainble greater evil. Don’t you understand how fucking ugly that is to people like me, and you CV. And you ! ???
           • Colonial Viper 9.1.2.1.1.1

             28 August 2016 at 11:05 pm

             I’m not asking you to vote for Trump; neither am I asking for your approval of my political preferences.
   • Leftie 9.2

     28 August 2016 at 2:14 pm

     AB, cutting power to hot water systems during bad weather has been going on for decades, if memory serves a sparky once told me some years back, it started in the 1950’s. I thought it was just a West Auckland thing too until he told me it occurs throughout Auckland. If you have the know how it’s an extremely simple and quick procedure to trip and bypass it in your fuse box and then you will never lose hot water again.
   • alwyn 9.3

     28 August 2016 at 2:20 pm

     “privatisation of these utilities was a scam”.
     Given that 75.1% of Vector is owned by the AECT, which is a trust owned by the people of Auckland and with a publicly elected board, it hardly seems that you can blame “Privatisation” for its failings. It wasn’t privatised, was it?
     You might do a great deal better if it really was privatised. Thank God Vector sold the lines company here in Wellington. We don’t have anything like the problems that Auckland seems to.
   • Ad 9.4

     28 August 2016 at 2:25 pm

     Vector is still 75% owned by the AECT Trust. This Trust is governed by a democratically elected Board.
     The AECT is scheduled to be returned to the Council in about 60 years.
     Unless a government can be persuaded to accelerate that a whole lot faster.

     That would give Auckland Council a fairly large money-printing machine.
     Plus comprehensive control of all major utilities, like when we had coherent government.
   • Paul 9.5

     28 August 2016 at 5:23 pm

     Calling it a scam is generous.
     It was theft, pure and simple.
10. ropata 10

    28 August 2016 at 11:45 am

    Elites betray the people, considering themselves as gods
11. rhinocrates 11

    28 August 2016 at 11:57 am

    The kind of people supporting Trump, and the kind of people Trump supports (refusing to denounce endorsements from the bedsheets and brown shirts types, appointing Breibart’s Bannon as campaign manager) :

    http://mediamatters.org/blog/2016/08/25/what-alt-right-guide-white-nationalist-movement-now-leading-conservative-media/212643

    This review of the film The Childhood of a Leader by Kim Newman is quite apposite:

    The adult actors are all excellent, though required to be stooges for Sweet. It takes three parents, several servants, a world war, a corrupt church (Prescott yells “I don’t believe in praying any more” like a mantra) to shape this monster. The failures of these adults and their institutions create the vacuum that allows his eventual rise. This may be the story of the childhood of a leader, but we have to look at the grown-ups who fail to solve or resolve anything – from a dinner menu to an equitable peace – for a sketch of the mass abdication of responsibility that might make a great many people want to be led by a dangerous maniac. This is also the story of those who will be led.

    http://www.bfi.org.uk/news-opinion/sight-sound-magazine/reviews-recommendations/film-week-childhood-leader
12. The Chairman 12

    28 August 2016 at 12:10 pm

    Out of the candidates standing, who would you like to see become Wellington Mayor?
    • mauī 12.1

      28 August 2016 at 12:55 pm

      Johnny Overton, the rest are living in an endless growth/debt extreme political world. That applied to Wade-Brown too.
      • alwyn 12.1.1

        28 August 2016 at 2:24 pm

        Whoever it is it had better not be one of the “light rail” fanatics. Rather than just accept it is far to expensive for a town like Wellington a group of them have arbitrarily decided that it can be done for half the price. These are the highly qualified engineering consultants like Laidlaw and Kedgley.
        Jo Coughlan seems by far the best.
        • RedBaronCV 12.1.1.1

          28 August 2016 at 2:44 pm

          And it had better not be one of the “let’s concrete everything in sight and dig up the basin reserve and put 4 lanes of motorway through to the airport with the $300 million proposed ratepayer subsidy” all of which makes light rail look like petty cash.
          Not Jo Coughlan
        • mauī 12.1.1.2

          28 August 2016 at 7:27 pm

          Rubbish, Coughlan wants to spend $1 billion on roading, including duplicating the Vic and Terrace tunnels, and flyovers and whatever else. That is just crazy in a world that’s already hitting its limits and with fluctuating oil prices.

          Laying rails and wires down Campbridge Terrace, Adelaide Rd, Constable St and to the airport will be a shitload cheaper and much less work. Not hard to see that.
          • Poission 12.1.1.2.1

            28 August 2016 at 9:16 pm

            Using what is still there ( pirie street) is a more logical option,then linking it through Hataitai park and down to cobham drive.

            http://www.teara.govt.nz/files/p-22518-pc.jpg
13. Paul 13

    28 August 2016 at 12:33 pm

    Bernard Hickey: Land is for living, not savings

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=11701100
14. b waghorn 14

    28 August 2016 at 12:45 pm

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/83585857/eugene-bingham-the-spectre-of-ghost-crimes-should-have-come-back-to-haunt-police

    If you have any info on the police fiddling stats around burglary the chap who wrote this article would like to hear from you.
15. b waghorn 15

    28 August 2016 at 12:47 pm

    Holy shit batman the new edit function is the business.
    • weka 15.1

      28 August 2016 at 2:14 pm

      Was that something Lynn did? I thought something had changed from my browser update yesterday.

      It seems faster though. And cleaner to use.
    • Leftie 15.2

      28 August 2016 at 2:17 pm

      Lol yeah, it took me by surprise too!!!
    • lprent 15.3

      28 August 2016 at 2:27 pm

      It is what happens when I start editing something at 0300.

      In this case there was a function I wanted to remove in the trash as part of internal security review. It was hooked into the AEC (Ajax Edit Comments) which hadn’t been updated in 3 years and which provided our re-edit and which had a pile of extra functions that we didn’t use any more. So I hunted for something that just did the re-edit function.

      The guy who wrote the AEC originally had done one called Simple Comment Edit (SCE) which after I tested it, turned out to be much better for our needs.
      • lprent 15.3.1

        28 August 2016 at 2:28 pm

        Oh and it even works in the mobile version of the site with a few quirks 🙂
    • alwyn 15.4

      28 August 2016 at 2:28 pm

      Do you know whether he plans to provide the “search” function’s capabilities? It no longer abends for me but it doesn’t find any results either.
      • lprent 15.4.1

        28 August 2016 at 2:30 pm

        It was on my list last night. But I wound up working on several other issues first.

        Coffee and I will try to merge the code bases together again.

        In the meantime while I wait for the coffee to take effect, I’m purging 36 thousand revisions of the authors posts that are no longer required. That should save some backup bandwidth.
        • RedBaronCV 15.4.1.1

          28 August 2016 at 2:45 pm

          My misspellings hitting the dust – thank you
      • b waghorn 15.4.2

        28 August 2016 at 2:52 pm

        hehe that makes me feel important , but i’m not involved in nor do i know anyone who is involved with the running of the standard , just a random commenter is who i am.
16. The Pink Postman 16

    28 August 2016 at 2:57 pm

    Good news for us Lefties ,Labour has a land slide victory in Northen
    Territory .
    • rod 16.1

      28 August 2016 at 4:58 pm

      @PP
      I expect our one man band will be relaxed and confortable about it.
      • North 16.1.1

        28 August 2016 at 9:33 pm

        I was having a chat outside the supermarket in my town with a District Court judge and I advanced the lament that we don’t have any strong moral leadership in NZ anymore……judge obviously understood me and responded – “Well yes, I agree John Key’s a little bit ‘relaxed’ maybe, but……. ”

        Like it’s fucking OK overall ? And on the following Monday morning District Court judge went back to dispensing, ahem, justice ??? Yes he did. But none of the subjects of this dispensed ‘justice’ were fucking relaxed……and neither was ‘Mother Justice’. Rich people way up there are always fucking ‘relaxed’. Cos’ they don’t get hit with the unrelaxing shit that ordinary people have to suffer. So I don’t listen to them anymore. District Court judge et al……they’re wanking !

        To persuade themselves, their own insides, that they’re selflessly making a difference. No…..!
        • Anne 16.1.1.1

          28 August 2016 at 10:05 pm

          Yep. Couldn’t agree more. You remind me of an incident that happened years and years ago. I was up before a district court judge on a speeding charge. Before I was called several others were up on the same charge and she dished out $50 fines. I came up before her… never spoke a word (my court appointed lawyer did the talking) and she lumbered me with a $100 fine. There was an audible gasp around the room. I was the only woman up on charges and I have to assume she did it because I was a young – a hell of a lot younger than her.

          If I’d had the courage and confidence experience has since taught me, I would have called her out for what she was… a nasty bitch.
17. Paul 17

    28 August 2016 at 3:18 pm

    Just watch the BBC interviewer’s prejudice in favour of the establishment.
    Can you imagine Sakkur treating a spokeperson from the banks in the same condescending manner?

    The media is a large part of the problem.

    Steve Keen interview on BBC HardTalk
    • Reddelusion 17.1

      28 August 2016 at 9:22 pm

      I thought that was good Paul, Keen put his case forward very well while been challenged all the way, that’s what you want and guess why they call it hard talk To be fair to this interviewer he is pretty tough on all his interviews and prepared which is refreshing
18. Paul 18

    28 August 2016 at 3:37 pm

    New Zealanders should heed this message.

    Australia headed for recession next year, Professor Steve Keen says.
19. joe90 19

    28 August 2016 at 5:12 pm

    Self funding – exploiting the fuck out of everyone and everything to break even or perhaps turn a tidy wee profit.

    Donald Trump has paid $7.7M in campaign contributions to his own companies and children https://t.co/0LHe5UAJL7 pic.twitter.com/fR99bzgeOi— VICE News (@vicenews) August 28, 2016
    • Paul 19.1

      28 August 2016 at 5:21 pm

      Have you looked at who is funding Clinton?
      The usual culprits…..
20. Robert Atack 20

    28 August 2016 at 6:07 pm

    Germans told to stockpile food and water for civil defence
    http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-37155060

    For the first time since the Cold War the German government is advising citizens to stockpile food and water for use in a national emergency.
    Some opposition MPs said the new civil defence concept, to go before ministers on Wednesday, was scaremongering.
    Citizens are advised to store enough food to last them 10 days, because initially a disaster might put national emergency services beyond reach.
    Five days’ water – two litres (half a gallon) per person daily – is advised.
    • In Vino 20.1

      28 August 2016 at 7:34 pm

      I lived in Germany for nearly 2 years. I was impressed – they generally do much less stupid than we do. They discussed economic matters seriously, and conquered inflation long before we did. They also prevented the ridiculous house price problem we have. They are far more heavily populated, and have done far more than we have to counter pollution. And kept a truly successful economy, despite taking on the burden of an impoverished East Germany 26 years ago.
      Not a known earthquake zone, but … I would listen if I were there.
      But here in NZ we need fear nothing in these Golden Times with our Rocket Economy.
      And our PM can find another expert to contradict anyone who points out a threat like filthy waterways…
      And Germany has introduced debt-free tertiary education.
      Yep – they are way ahead of us.
21. Muttonbird 21

    28 August 2016 at 7:37 pm

    Fascinating method of determining school needs here from the National government ministry of education.

    http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/national/311981/'overall'-more-space-than-students-ministry

    I expect they will under their small government masters want to normalise classes being held in libraries, staff rooms, resource rooms, and storage sheds in the same way the current government has normalised poverty, homelessness, and crime. After all, according to John Key’s men, this is what happens in tough economic times.

    I would really love to see someone in the media track the progress of these “230 new classrooms”, and “six new schools”.
    • b waghorn 21.1

      28 August 2016 at 7:49 pm

      there’s empty classrooms all over the country but hey what the fuck lets all pile into the big cities so we can enjoy all the pleasures of traffic jams and overcrowding.
22. Muttonbird 22

    28 August 2016 at 7:52 pm

    I’d rather a child sex offender living next door than the corrections minister.

    Far less dangerous…

    http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/political/311986/nobody-wants-a-child-sex-offender-living-next-door-minister
23. North 23

    28 August 2016 at 10:05 pm

    Dirty fucking cop…….what’re all those (certainly looked like essentially tidy) young fullas gonna think next time…….you humiliated me last time areshole cop……here, feast on this. Whack ! You can see it a mile off. All because of one Rambo Little Dick Cock. That kid on the bike was more a man by a mile than that thick bully fuck cop.

    FFS.http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/video.cfm?c_id=1&gal_cid=1&gallery_id=164677

    This should be the subject of a criminal charge of assault laid against the doggish bully cop. Won’t happen of course. Assaults BY police are ten fold of assaults AGAINST police. And judges know it but ‘politically’ they close their ears and then they end up believing their own closed ears.
24. North 24

    28 August 2016 at 10:25 pm

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/video.cfm?c_id=1&gal_cid=1&gallery_id=164677

    Look at it again. Completely unprovoked !
25. North 25

    28 August 2016 at 11:03 pm

    FFS ! Despatch both those flakes. Amendment ?

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11701284

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