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Open mike 28/11/2010

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, November 28th, 2010 - 58 comments
Categories: open mike - Tags:

Open mike is your post.

It’s open for discussing topics of interest, making announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose.

Comment on whatever takes your fancy.

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Step right up to the mike…

58 comments on “Open mike 28/11/2010 ”

  1. just saying 1


    Gee I didn’t think I’d be the first to post this, what with Matt taking issue with a post in the Standard.

    “This brings me to whether there’s a space for a new party if Labour continues to drift. This idea was surprisingly raised on the Labour Party-aligned Standard Blog during the Mana by-election. It suggested I’d been in cahoots with Hone Harawira and Sue Bradford in planning such a project.”

    I’m sure the “Labour-aligned” crack will get a bit of a rise from some around here.
    Anyway, he goes on to say that he hadn’t met with Bradford and Harawira and hadn’t been planning a new left party, however, he definitely wouldn’t be averse….

    “Without such a presence outside, Labour tends to swing to the right to compete with National for the so-called centre vote. Labour’s been doing that for the past two and a half decades and trying to be National-lite won’t get Phil Goff into government next year”.

    Apart from being morally wrong, Labour’s continuing to woo the well-to-do, and turn up its nose at those who struggle is a glaring tactical mistake IMO. That it is apparently continuing on this path (just this week it again proudly endorsed the first ACT government (Cunliffe’s speech)) shows how woefully out of touch the leadership continues to be. As many have quipped lately ‘you’d think they wanted to lose in 2011’.
    Anyway Matt gives the following warning, though I’m pretty much certain the dye is already cast.

    “In the Mana campaign I promoted traditional Labour policies to working class people who loved them. Fortunately for you, enough of them went back to you last Saturday to save your party from humiliation.

    Next year they may not. That’s the real lesson of the Mana by-election”.

    • jcuknz 1.1

      The left talks of solidarity in its unions but in politics it seems to be always hiving off factions … new labour, alliance, greens, Maori, even ACT though that seems to have gone a fair way away. and narry a nice word spoken between them?. While National seems to have maintained its solidarity in contrast.

      • just saying 1.1.1

        I’ve noticed that.
        But maybe enduring what has effectively been a ‘grand coalition of the right’ government, in a rece/depre/ession, for two f#*king years, and looking down the barrel of three more, whilst our species faces its most important, and probably fatal crisis. Maybe something like that might galvanise the left.

        Maybe not.

        • ZeeBop

          Rubbish. The left just needs to do the deep analysis that the right does. The right does not hit the message everytime by mistake, they have panels, they do surveys to find what hits people’s bucket.

          Everyone knows that without regulation and rules you will get deaths (29 in Pike River), so why isn’t
          the left on the same page, pushing back the lies of the right that no regulation is really dopey, that free markets
          don’t mean no government rather free markets can’t come about without good regulation governance!

          The press, media mogals, destroyed the world economy once before, the great depression. Now they
          are doing it again. Read your history.

        • pollywog

          i don’t think global warming is going to be an issue at the election nor will it galvanise the left, it’ll be an anomalous distraction, a political football to kick around for rhetorics sake.

          campaigning will be all about the economy and showing ‘smile and wave’ up for the psychopath he appears to be, not the genius self made millionaire kid who made good and has a grand scheme for pulling us out of the financial mire we’re bogged down in.

          everyone knows the simple answer to our woes is to tax the rich more, but seeing as how the dipton dipshit just gave the fatcats a massive taxcut amounting to a rise in salary while raising the poor tax by way of GST and bailing out his investor mates who gamed Sth Canterbury Finance for all it’s worth means it just ain’t gonna happen

          and the fact that team red accepted the raise with nary a protest or an offer to stick the tax switch up their blue arses shows which side of the bread they’re buttered on too

          even forcing another brown stooge on us thru a by election caused by one of their own who couldn’t be arsed playing second fiddle anymore shows how little they care about constituents and more about rewarding the eatarse party faithful and jumping ship when the opportunity presents itself.

          i’m predicting massive voter apathy just like Mana where not voting is a tick against both major parties. if there were a real deal left party who could mobilise the young and disaffected without coming off like a bunch of vegan stoner hippies they’d go along way to restoring some faith in democracy and freedom of choice.

          • Bill

            The left mimics the organisational structures of the right, ie it employs hierarchy. And hierarchy is a structure for authoritarianism. And insofar as authoritarians want control, the left will endlessly split into factions defending and propagating their own turf.

            The right doesn’t have the same problem because their over aching commonality is over preserving the ‘here and now’ and the right to get ahead at the expense of others while excusing that state of affairs.

            Meanwhile, most of the left is a mess of contending prescriptions to the ‘here and now’, all predicated on establishing some form of elite control. If and when the left gets to a point where it unabashedly embraces basic tenets of democracy and doesn’t forego substantive democracy in the name of ‘pragmatism’ (read: elites are good and ‘the great unwashed’ need our guidance, not theirs), then we might get somewhere.

          • ZeeBop

            I disagree. Labour will win in a landslide if they want to win. I think most people believe it
            won’t matter who gets in, but just on the off chance Labour might actually change something
            because they’ve had two years of completely stupid and even businesses and farmers can
            see that rewarding weeds isn’t good for their consumers or the integrity of the economy.
            On the day that Pike River exploded! National made it illegal for union representatives
            to go into a workplace to discuss safety. That is a breach of so many human rights
            principles that National basically in one fell swoop trashed our democracy. We are
            all now slaves of the state, our lives are to be thrown away at the leisure of parliament.

          • just saying

            I was talking about the whole cocktail of crises: capitalism and social structures breaking down, the end of cheap oil, massive, continuing, pollution and ecodestruction, peak soil, climate change, an ever more powerful burgeoning police state ready to keep you and me away from those gated communities when we get angry or hungry in a few years time……..(and a whole lot more that doesn’t bear thinking about).

            But like you, I doubt any of them will get much of a mention in the election campaign. I’m also predicting mass apathy – unless those getting shat on worst come to believe there is an alternative to the ‘grand coaltion of the right’, at the same time, they they get to feeling more angry than ashamed.

        • KJT

          We have had a grand coalition of the lunatic right since 1984.

          If Labour got of their collective asses and decided to stand for what Labour should stand for then they may have a pleasant surprise. If they continue to drift along as NACT light then they will never be taken seriously.

          • Jim Nald

            More claptrap re the first comment at 1.
            Actually, it is the Right who are breaking up. But in their typical style of showing a different face, they are portraying like they are all in agreement. National has been working to hide its factions and internal dissatifaction from public view. After 9 years on the opposition benches, dead rats and anything distasteful are now being swallowed at all cost just to be in power. Just to enjoy the ministerial privileges and advance their private interests. Well, even the Zombie Brash now has to crawl out of his tomb and begin railing against Key:


            The country is fast going down the toilet because of bad decisions of the past two years and NACTS have only one way to deal with the challenges by smiling and waving away the real issues.

            • Herodotus

              No Ji,m we are not progressing because of a Lab govt 5 years ago was devoid of any ideas and broken dreams remember GDP and OCED rankings?
              The economy they based their legacy on was false. Housing boom (When we cannot even build houses that can cope with mositure), GDP growth based on part by immigration, We cannot grow our own economy without the need to import a pop to sustain growth or consumerism, and a rising commodity market predom Dairy.
              Look Lab have appologised for the mistakes from Helens time, a new direction as espoused by David, no detail. And how many ivy league are part of the Lab makeup?
              On a side issue why does what was Rodney DC still get charged for toll calls to connect to the rest of the super city. Why is there no pressure being placed on Telecom to unit the city with toll free?

              • Colonial Viper

                Herod. no detail? Possibly a fair criticism but the broad strokes are there, in Cunliffe’s words. His speech detailed his thinking and the options and priorities being considered. He is clear on the failures of the past as well as current in-progress failures. Further its still 6-12 months from an election, there is some need to keep the powder dry.

                So I agree with you that Cunliffe needs to flesh out the bones but I would suggest that is what is actually happening behind closed doors now.

                On the other hand, if I were to reflect your same criticisms on our *Government*: where are their new and innovative ideas in power? What is their direction for the economy of NZ in power? Can they even see the dreams breaking in front of NZ’ers eyes while they are in power?

                From this perspective LAB is preparing to make a big break from the pre-GFC neo con past, while NAT is scouring over Richardson and Brash to see what ideas from the 1990’s they can resurrect.

                I’m going to hold LAB to account and I am certain you will too.

              • Jim Nald

                More rubbish.
                I’ll address one just before I step out to enjoy the sun that I will see a lot more of when I close the gap with Oz by buying a one-way ticket.
                The nation’s leaky homes were built thanks to Nats’ hands in lowering building standards and deregulating.
                I had my gripes with Labour circa mid-2000s for not putting together a fairer and speedier package for the blameless home owners and that’s a comment for another time.

                • Herodotus

                  In 2002 Helen Clark commented re Herald beatup story re leaky homes. So 8 years ago both parties thought there was nothing wrong with the building code. If it was sooo obvious why did nothing happen except protecting BRANZ from liability??
                  And CV my issue re David is the lack of time and detail we the voter will be given to critically analysis this new approach. The media will base the election like a boxing fight the title holder wearing blue trucks in the right undefeated Smashing Johnboy Keeeeey and in the left wearing red trucks with blue trim the challanger in his first title fight Phil where is he Goff. No time for addressing such minor issues as policy and detail. Great song by Living Colour summing up the problem

                • KJT

                  How were the home owners blameless. They were cheering on the cheaper houses with deregulation and the ability to pay cheap unqualified builders too.

                  Don’t tell me they did not know that cost cutting always resultts in shoddier products.

                  I lost quotes many time because I quoted for doing a house that did not leak.
                  The same people are moaning about regulation of builders increasing prices now.

                  • just saying


                    The left are on a roll this fine Sunday. The above from Bomber at Tumeke deserves a thread of its own but it fits best with this conversation. Fine writing and well worth reading in full, but I’ll leave a lttle taste here.

                    Quote: “The next election will be down to the wire as New Zealanders wake up to the privatization agenda National will propose and a Social Equity Party with the welfare of beneficiaries and those on Minimum wage foremost on their agenda would be better placed than at any other time in our political history to force real concessions from major political parties to ensure the concerns of those on the bottom are foremost in decision making.

                    A new party on the left with social equity at its philosophical heart focused on making sure any changes benefit those on the bottom most would need to tap into every beneficiary support group and every minimum wage organisation to push myopically for the party vote. There are 338 000 beneficiaries in NZ, there were 2 376 480 votes in the 2008 election, those beneficiaries represent 14% of that vote, a new Political Party needs only 5% to gain representation, add those on minimum wage and a clearly defined Party with the concerns of beneficiaries and those on minimum wage foremost at their political manifesto can pass the 5% threshold, it’s as simple as that.”

                  • Draco T Bastard

                    They were cheering on the cheaper houses with deregulation and the ability to pay cheap unqualified builders too.

                    They still are. My nephew has the same problem – puts in quotes at bare minimum and doesn’t get them. Gets undercut by huge amounts which, quite simply, the people doing the job can’t possibly be making any money on. They go in, cut corners and run.

                    I heard of job sites that have been shut down by OSH (Leaving the people without a place to live but considering that they accepted a quote that was half what the builder could do it for… Hint: If the builder gives a quote and then someone cuts it down by 50% don’t assume that the builder is ripping you off), fences that topple over in a mild wind and MDF being used as joists. People don’t seem to be able to learn and actually think that the amount that they want to pay is the amount it costs. Hell, I’ve even heard that people think that builders are creaming it.

              • Jum

                This is happening in Franklin as well – Toll calls to an Auckland they did not wish to join. Disgraceful.

                As for Helen Clark – it was a bolstering time. It gave people time to regain some health; lower health costs, etc. gone now. Bringing back the railway into national ownership was not a mistake. The mistake is allowing Joyce to play god with it.

                • Herodotus

                  Not for all lower health costs. The cost to reconstruct is at least the same if not more for Cancer affected patients than for Pam Andersons of this world.
                  The phone issue is one many are not aware of as the majority live within the telecom zone of $0 cost, perhaps more of us affected folk should follow the line of making Len aware of this issue.
                  Also thanks to the unbundling, to get a new line takes 4+ weeks thanks to One World, reverting back to the 70\’s when you need to know someone to get your phone/internet connected.
                  A call to NZFP- Re Cunliffs speach – why would you tax inflows, I thought we would want to promote investment into the country and increase the difficulty of repatriation the $$. So if use a Tobin system, tax outflows or is there some advantage in Davids suggestion, as taxing inflows screws the exporter as well??

                  • Draco T Bastard

                    Taxing inflows will decrease the demand for NZ$ dropping its value on the market.

                    • Herodotus

                      Taxing outflows, means that good overseas investment is rewarded when $$ are repatriated, exporters are not disadvantaged, they send goods offshore and $$ return no tax, reward for + behaviour. Importers are taxed, $ go out goods return. Also overseas investment is would be like Chine, where you can invest here yet there is a disensentive to take profits, and on a wee personnel side Banks would take less back to Aussie as the tax would reduce cash dividends, only watch out for transfer pricing from corp H/O.
                      Also tourists can spend her and are penalised when they cashin unused kiwi$ and holidaying overseas has a wee additional cost.

            • millsy

              Ah yes, just when you thought it was safe…

              Brash flits round the countryside spouting the same crap he has been spouting for the past 20 years, about wanting to throw the poor, the sick the young and the elderly under a bus so we can win some kind of pissing contest with Australia.

              With a gold plated pension topped up by luractive consultancy, he doesnt have to worry about making ends meet when he retires.

              • ZeeBop

                Brash, like Key, even Goff, can’t be talking any leftwing shit and cause huge problems
                for the UK, US, right who will get even.

                Brash isn’t criticising Key out of revenge, its money. Brash very much worries that
                there won’t be any lucrative consultancy or praliamentary pensions if ther kitty is empty.

                And when the US is printing money, when the reserve currency of the world, is
                printing money, and soverign funds like Ireland, Spain, Greece, Italy, and yes
                NZ private sector, all have huge debts, you have top wonder why he wouldn’t
                be speaking out. Like everyone on the right squeeze to be silent from their
                right, and wanted to introduce leftwing policy on their left to recenter the
                economy but can’t be seen doing it, or wanting it.

              • KJT

                Brash. NZ’s highest paid welfare beneficiary.

  2. nilats 2

    GW is dead, it ain’t happening as Jones @ CRU said himself there is no STATISTICAL warming over the past 15 years at 95% CL. Cancun is a forum to discuss wealth re distribution. Wll I say F%@k You UN/IPCC, I already support too many people already, without having to support poor ole sand dweller in Africa.

  3. I have always believed and still do that we imprison to many people.However I draw the line at crimes of violence and murder. Violent people must be put away for some time not only to pay for their crime but to protect other people. I was concerned that murderer Bruce Emery recieved only four years for the brutal murder of Pihema Cameron. Emery caught this young boy tagging so he went into his house fouind a knife then chased this silly boy caught him and stabbed him to death . He then went home washed the knife and sat down with his family to watch TV

    • continued from above.
      this is the classical behavour of a pathological killer.One can only wonder what the outcome would have been if the roles had been reversed and a Brown lad had murderer a white man.?
      What makes this case even worse is that the self appointed spokeperson on morals the chairperson of the misnamed Sensible Sentencing Trust believes this is a good decision. Worse still he believes this murderer should never have been sentenced. Its obvious that McVicar and his cronies believe that if a person is white and a church goer they should not be charged with cfrimes of violence. These obsene remarks by McVicar
      show just what a nasty dispicable man he is.

      • Vicky32 3.1.1

        I absolutely agree with you, pink postman… I am shocked that Emery got such a short sentence, and that it’s all so blatant!
        They can’t even be bothered hiding the inequality and elitism of the sentencing…

      • Anne 3.1.2

        Sensible Sentencing Trust is a depository for psychopaths. The SST types have a neanderthal look about them too. Narrow foreheads… eyes close together… and prominent jaws. Have a good look at McVicar next time he’s on TV.

  4. Sanctuary 4

    A post from a reader called “DennisP” in this guardian.co.uk story – http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2010/nov/27/new-zealand-mine-tragedy-safety – has been more informative to me (along with googling some of his key technical words) in 600 or so words about aspects of mining technology than a week of wall to wall coverage of Pike River in the New Zealand media.

    Why has our media not bothered to explain what sort of mine Pike River is? Why has it not bothered to explain how the mining process worked at Pike River, and how this can lead to an explosion? Why have they not bothered to try and put Pike River, it’s mining method and this disaster into some sort of global context? They’ve had plenty of time to tell us.

    Instead of trying to give New Zealanders an understanding of coal mining, something that might provoke the higher level though processes in their audience and allow us to contextualise what has occurred, our miserable media have yet again revealed what they really think of their audience by feeding us a ghastly drivel of low order, human interest disaster porn, designed to elicit knee jerk emotion and re-traumatise rather than educate.

    • Colonial Viper 4.1

      Yeah, keep ’em in the dark and feed them…oh you know the rest.

      Shortland Street is NOT supposed to start at 6pm.

    • pollywog 4.2

      good lookin out sanctuary !

      captcha : escape

    • Bill 4.3

      Thanks for providing the link to that bloody excellent first hand explanation/description of mining environments Sanctuary. The same person has more comments offering further insights to mining environments through the link below. Worth the read. Scroll down his comments to the ones titled “Pike River:The Miners Worst Fears”


    • Swampy 4.5

      Why don’t you wait like everyone else until the enquiry has finished?

      What sort of mine is it? It is a coal mine. We don’t need a commentator from halfway around the world grinding his own axe to tell us that.

      • Colonial Viper 4.5.1

        His axe is a damn sight sharper than many I’ve seen on this issue so far. He conveyed a lot of valuable information in his comments. The fact that he has industry expertise but independent of the situation in NZ also has considerable value.

  5. joe90 5

    The Mudflats is blogging America By Heart… .

  6. Bill 6

    One hundred thousand Irish protest against the bank bailouts. That’s from a population base that’s about the same as NZ.


  7. just saying 7


    Bryce Edwards’ analysis of a nascent rift in the National Party – Brash speaks out in OrewaII

    My God this guy is fast (Edwards not Brash)

    • Bill 7.1

      But the Nat’s are neither moderate nor centrist. They are pushing as far as they can with one eye obviously on the next election, after which they can rip shit and bust.

      Could be wrong, but I see Brash’s ‘criticism’ as being feigned in an attempt to sucker any potential concern of the KO policies the Nats will inevitably run out should they win the coming election.

      • ianmac 7.1.1

        There was recent speculation of a far right party being formed to take up the slack caused by ACT being in trouble. Brash was mentioned in this regard. However it would suit National to have such a group because they would carry out the function that National wants, while Nat appears to keep the centre. Keeps John’s hand clean you see.

    • Draco T Bastard 7.2

      Don Brash’s return to Orewa – opening up divisions in National
      Actual link

      Hmmm, a lot of words to say that Brash is a little upset about the direction and the lack thereof that Jonkey is taking the National party. Of course, if Brash was true to his beliefs he’d be joining the Act party.

    • Gotham 7.3

      Edwards also hitting out at the Greens again too – though this article is mostly just a paraphrase of the Weekend Dom magazine piece from last weekend:


      (I do declare I am a Green member, but even I agree with about 30% of Edward’s comments. That makes me a bit sad…)

      So…the maybe/maybe not formation of a ‘new left party’ because Labour’s just not getting it; Brash positioning himself as ‘critic and conscience’ of the Nats, because they’re just not getting it; and the ‘reinvention’ of the Greens because, well, seems they aren’t getting it either.

      Uninspired, much?

  8. Jum 8

    When is this going to be out on real physical paper? You have to shove information under people’s noses before they begin to understand what is happening. If the Left don’t do this, they will lose the next election. If they lose the next election, as far as I am concerned, it is because they wanted our assets to be sold to private interests. They are not pulling out all the stops; they are not meeting at the places people go; instead they’re having high end discussions at places like the University Business School that had Bernard Hickey and Selwyn Pellett talking about an economic rethink, but sounding sadly more like an e-loop of Key (so much for the epiphany Bernard). Then there’s David Cunliffe who has learned nothing about the damage any sort of private ownership of monopoly community good assets brings. How can he sew up all the loopholes that the pond-scum of Wealth Street spends OUR money on opening up for exploitation? Borrowing by government or council must be cheaper than giving private interests our assets to tear apart. There are no savings in contracting (privatising) out.

    And then there’s the little problem of what a Left under McCarten will bring; will it be equality or will it be the same crap NActMU have been dishing out to women. The National Council of Women advocated for women (although it is certainly full of NAct supporters) and was removed from the Charitable Funding membership, along with sensible sentencing. The two don’t compare. I was told by ? that the NCW removed the right of Maori women to have the moko. Is the Maori Party taking out Utu? Mickey Savage took me to task about the work Labour had been doing for women, but why tell me? Tell the women who voted for NActMU.
    This blog could go one step further; why are they afraid to foot it on the streets and hand out info sheets telling the real stories about the gummint the extreme right media won’t print? Time is running out guys.
    If you won’t do it maybe a new Women’s Party will…

    • Colonial Viper 8.1

      Money and networks of people ready to hand copies out, at a guess. Plus The Standard’s admins and writers already have their hands full as it is.

      Also consider that most people on the streets these days look at you like you are a leper if you try and hand them anything. They consider that they are too posh for it. I mean, getting $14.75/hr means you’ve lifted yourself above the rest of the minimum wage scum through your own hard work and initiative, time to vote NACT. Seriously thats the way some people seem to think.

      In essence I agree with you though, The Standard needs to be way more visible, known and in peoples’ faces.

      I suggest twice weekly You Tube segments to begin with, 10 mins long each, 6 mins covering the most interesting news, posts and comments, 4 mins for an exclusive interview with someone sensible.

      Advertising opportunities galore, too.

      Don’t forget the Facebook page, etc.

      • Vicky32 8.1.1

        Hey, if someone would produce a print version, I’d help hand it out! (I am unemployed, and have nowt else to do – at least, I’d would be doing something useful!)

        • Bill

          Could be produced and sold on a similar basis to the Big Issue. That was (is?) a newspaper about and by the homeless that homeless people could buy an initial bundle of from money loaned from ‘Big Issue’. They sold (as independent sub contractors responsible for dealing with tax etc) at a cover price that was (I think) double what they paid. They could always rip the 20 pounds up front they received, or use the 40 pounds to pay back the 20 and reinvest some of the remaining 20 to buy more copy to sell and either declare the earnings or not as they saw fit in view of their legal responsibilities.

          But logistics for ‘The Standard’? Can the cost of layout/design and printing and issues of editorialising plus a fairly small market be overcome?

          I’d sell it.

      • M 8.1.2

        Excellent CV, re YT segments, maybe it could be under a banner like the Workers’ Channel? like the Fkn News has all its video posts.

        LOL, the $14.75/hour rate lifting a person above the minimum wage scum and time to vote NACT – poor fools, a small taste of sugar and they fall into line.

  9. john 9

    What is the outlook for NeoLiberal America, the country our ACT-nat government thinks is the way to go whose sad road they want us to copy!? Refer link:


  10. Draco T Bastard 10

    Will Europe Face Defaults?

    So why not bite the bullet and just get it over with? Because the European banking system would not survive even the best-case restructuring scenario. As a consequence we are fated to witness several years of difficult economic adjustment while everyone pretends that these countries, under the right policies, can work their way through their debt burdens. What will really be happening is that European banks will aggressively rebuild their capital bases, with the unwilling help of the poor household sector, until they are sufficiently well capitalized to begin taking the write-offs. Only then will we recognize that some countries cannot repay their debts.

    Sounds about right – the poor bailing out the rich so that the rich can remain rich rather than lose from the risks that they took.

    Capitalism – pure theft.

  11. North 11

    Who the hell named Minister of Justice Simon Power the politician of the year ? Some/one/thing called TransTasman Roll apparently.

    Imagine my shock when I read of that distinction, having earlier today read that a spokesperson for Simon Power is quoted by NZPA as saying there will be no reopening of the Crewe murders case because it is “the police who determine guilt or innocence…..”……..???

    Presumably this spokesperson reflects Power’s actual position. Is Power incompetent or what ? Peter Williams QC called him “the boy minister……” when he presumed to lecture the Chief Justice on the separation of powers. I agree with Williams. He’s an inmcompetent wee laddie. Politician of the year bah !

    • Jum 11.1

      North – just another rightie media. They were disappointed Key didn’t get picked. This is a sick up group and they regularly beat up on Labour. They’re very keen on sell offs of anything New Zealand owns.

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