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Open mike 29/06/2021

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, June 29th, 2021 - 76 comments
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76 comments on “Open mike 29/06/2021 ”

  1. KSaysHi 1

    Anyone know what the cheapest phone that is compatible with the app? Thinking I might just buy one of those customised stamps. Getting old.


    • Graeme 1.1

      There's also Rippl which will run on Android 5.0 or later, that takes in a lot of cheaper and older phones.

      It works a bit differently to the offical app, you need to scan out as well, but is integrated with the MOH system.

      • KSaysHi 1.1.1

        THANKS!! I replaced my previous phone because it wasn't compatible, only to find out the new one has the same issue.

    • gsays 1.2

      FWIW about a year ago I went to an Oppo fone. It was around $80.

      I am on prepay with 2 Degrees.

      Good camera, storage for music etc.

      • Rosemary McDonald 1.2.1

        Our back up phone when living in the Bus and the Spark didn't work was one of these… Doro.

        Designed for older folks by the Scandinavians and ridiculously easy to use. Clamshell type so you're not risking pocket calls. The newer ones might be a bit more expensive. A smartphone averse relative now has our because it is so delightfully stupid.

    • weka 1.3

      MoH have a list of compatible phones somewhere.

  2. Adrian Thornton 2

    Western media completely ignores new revelation that a primary witness in the US case against Assange has admitted to lying and inventing his evidence against Assange in return for immunity….including our own media and specifically RNZ, whom it seems don't have access to the in internet, so can only report world events that are faxed to them by Reuters.

    "By August 2011, the game was up, and Thordarson was being pursued by WikiLeaks members, along with $50,000 in merchandise sales he had diverted into his bank account by impersonating Assange. It was then that Thordarson, apparently, emailed the FBI and offered to provide them with information."


    • Byd0nz 2.1

      This shows how free the Press is, or, is not. Selective News only to appease the Western Masters. So much for Journalists supporting each other.

      • gsays 2.1.1

        Yep, just don't call it fake news, no matter how well it fits into that category.

    • weston 2.2

      Just watched democracy now report on this story and amy cops quite a bit of flak in the comments for her non reportage of JA up to this point i guess either shes a hillary fan or an establishment tool or both which might partly explain why a supposedly progressive media outlet like hers would take so long to make a sound about him ?.She also said "many people believe "assange exposed war crimes…?? anyway she at least interviewed his lawyer .

  3. Jenny how to get there 3

    housing affordability

    Ethan Te Ora Stuff.co.nz, Jun 29 2021

    "….empty houses are actually an important part of a healthy housing market."


    'Actually', empty houses are an important part of a 'healthy' housing market, if you are a speculator.

    And if by 'healthy' you ‘actually’ mean very sick.

    Very soon now, as happened overseas, when the Ghost House market grows to big, we are approaching a time when brand new unsold and empty houses, and sometimes even whole new housing developments, are bulldozed, in an effort ot keep house prices up.

    To prevent this atrocity occurring in this country…We need to have legislation in place right now to make it illegal to demolish new unsold houses.

    • Pat 3.1

      Empty housing must be 'explained away' as if it wasn't the claim that time and space to construct more housing to alleviate homelessless and affordability loses its credence.

      • KSaysHi 3.1.1

        It's zoned residential, not capital gains!! Some explaining is in order.

        • Pat

          The explanations will be spurious…..those who have real time data (the private sector RE and banks) hold that data closely for this very purpose….ambiguity.

          The housing ratio now is significantly better than it was in the 1990s when there was no hint of a housing shortage but since then we have seen the growth of holiday homes, Air BnB and capital growth at rates that facilitate holding property empty….and then theres money laundering.

          Given the number of properties in NZ it is apparent the problem is one of misallocation rather than quantity but changing that allocation requires politically difficult decisions and so we have various false narratives applied….shortage being the main one.

    • KSaysHi 3.2

      2018 Census data. 16% of that area could have been out of the country on business. What is needed is data from water use which of course Wellington can't get because there are no water meters (thankfully).

      WCC could door knock and see if they are empty, or use their database to find the property owners and enquire what they are doing with their property

      With the upcoming 17% rates increase, and hellicious jumps in insurance premiums for Wellington these are incredibly expensive properties to let sit idol.

      • Pat 3.2.1

        I have often thought there could be a citizens science approach taken to this whereby members of the public do local surveys to ascertain how many local properties are vacant over a period of time and that data is collated and made public….if it presents as expected it could be used to apply pressure to the politicians

  4. Matiri 4

    From the Sydney Morning Herald live blog this morning

    • Hundreds of Victorian police have descended on the border with NSW to stop unauthorised people entering the southern state. Police are warning they have a helicopter that can scan number plates from hundreds of metres away.
    • Jenny how to get there 4.1

      Maybe the Australian authorities will be detaining these illegal cross border immigrants on Christmas Island.

  5. alwyn 5

    I have two nominees for Darwin awards. How stupid do you have to be to go out on Wellington Harbour this morning in a kayak?

    I feel sorry for the helicopter pilot who had to fly in this weather and look for them.


    • AB 5.1

      Heh. Given the windage of kayaks there wouldn't have been much 'battling' going on. Simply trying not to broach and roll over as they rode the swell and chop all the way to Petone.

      • GreenBus 5.1.1

        Would have been revelling in the moment, with all that excess testosterone. Until he gets the bill for the chopper.

        • Cricklewood

          Doubt they will, experienced kayakers with appropriate equipment for the journey… prob should have lodged a trip report given the conditions but not a legal requirement…

        • gsays

          Perhaps the bill is split with whomever contacted the chopper?

  6. Adrian 6

    Has anyone read the story in the pay-walled Herald about the popularity of Jacinda Arderns trip to the Fieldays, if true it really is trouble for the Nats? Still couldn’t bring myself to pay for it even if it is good news.

    • Robert Guyton 6.1

      Beloved by the Federation, our pretty communist!

    • Rosemary McDonald 6.2


      Written by 'Tory bastard' Jamie MacKay, and most of it is a wander down memory lane to 2012, or 13, when a fog bound hamilton Airport had himself and co sharing their rental car from Auckland with David Shearer.

      In a somewhat sanctimonious gesture straight from the Green Party playbook, David declared he was going to selflessly take a bus. We were having none of that and invited him to take the last remaining seat in our newly-acquired rental vehicle.

      He obliged, and what followed for us was two hours in the company of a well-travelled, well-storied, charming and charismatic man.

      The Nats owned Mystery Creek. It was their Tūrangawaewae.

      Which makes Ardern's Fieldays popularity all the more perplexing. Farmers don't love Labour. And there's plenty of reasons for farmers to not feel the love from Jacinda's lot. Not the least, the latest slap in the face in the form of tone-deaf Ute Tax.

      Then there's the prospect of overly-penal reforms around zero-carbon, freshwater, winter grazing and livestock numbers. Farming, which is doing all the heavy lifting in the economy, is fast becoming the sacrificial lamb on the altar of climate change.

      And therein lies the problem for Judith Collins and the Nats. With all the political fodder they have to feast on, they should be having a field day. Fieldays proved otherwise. The only thing they're feasting on is themselves. It's called cannibalisation.

      Actually a fairly civilised and interesting read. Considering. Would never have read it had you not asked about it. Thanks.

      • AB 6.2.1

        "tone-deaf Ute Tax" "overly-penal reforms" "political fodder they have to feast on"

        MacKay is most likely talking through his hat. Farmers are not monolithically of one mind and plenty of them know that change is needed. Maybe they are grateful it's coming piecemeal and gradually from someone who shows signs of caring about them as citizens and human beings? From someone who's actually not a socialist at all and will leave their business models mostly intact? And their periodic whining is just a negotiating position, not a rejection of the direction of travel?

        • Cricklewood

          Sadly there is a tendency to lump all farmers in together when in reality there is a big difference between industrialized dairy and your avg hill country farmer who typically cares deeply about both the land and their animals…

          • weka


          • Jenny how to get there

            As environmentalism and especially climate change, becomes more mainstream farmers can not remain aloof.

            The devastation wreaked by the recent Southland floods would have been pretty shocking to most farmers.

            An administration and a leader prepared to take the science of climate change seriously is guaranteed to get a hearing amongst farmers.

            Weather: What caused the Canterbury flood? Three questions answered

            1 Jun, 2021 NZ Herald

            Was it a one-in-100 year event?

            Such was the storm's intensity that some labelled it a "once in a century" downpour….
            Just because there is a big flood now it doesn't mean there won't be another one in the near future. They still might on average only happen once in a 100 years"
            “One of the big assumptions in this method is that the climate is not changing – of course we know that this is not the case at the moment,"
            Dr Emily Lane, a hydrodynamics scientist at Niwa.

            "We now face the ongoing influence of climate change on weather-related events that no longer fits with the assumption of no underlying change in our weather systems, climate or sea level."
            ‘The past measurements are no longer a reliable guide to future events – both the size and how often they will occur,"
            Dr Rob Bell, a scientist specialising in coastal hazards

            Did climate change play a part?

            "As the climate warms, there is more moisture in the air on average, so when it rains it is likely to rain harder than it used to,"
            Victoria University climate scientist Professor James Renwick

            "Unfortunately, the terrible damage we've seen done in Canterbury over the past couple of days is something we are likely to see more often in future."

            Victoria University climate scientist Professor James Renwick

            "Canterbury was in the grips of a drought recently and lack of water was a far bigger problem…."

            "Then suddenly when the water came, it came all at once. These sorts of extremes are expected to occur more frequently under climate change.

            …The expected increase in these types of drought-flood cycles needs to be incorporated into future planning."
            Dr Emily Lane, a hydrodynamics scientist at Niwa

            Are "atmospheric rivers" new features?

            Atmospheric rivers aren't anything new – but scientists are learning more about them all the time.

            Earlier this year, an Otago University study provided the first detailed analysis of their effects on local weather events.

            "In very basic terms, one of the results of a warmer climate is a wetter atmosphere," said the study's lead author, Hamish Prince.
            "With more moisture in the atmosphere the frequency and magnitude of atmospheric rivers making landfall in New Zealand is expected to increase.


        • weka

          Good points.

          Hazarding a guess that fielddays farmers and what we see in the MSM esp Fed Farmers don’t have as big an overlap as FF and MSM would have us believe.

        • Pete

          Monolithically one mind MacKay.

      • Adrian 6.2.2

        Thanks Rosemary

    • Patricia Bremner 6.3

      Adrian, same !! Lol.devil

      • Rosemary McDonald 6.3.1

        Hey, anyone who so clearly respects David Shearer is well worth a read.wink

  7. Rosemary McDonald 7

    This is causing a bit of a stir… The Safety of COVID-19 Vaccinations—We Should Rethink the Policy

    The statistics experts can take a critical deep dive, but the researchers conclude that…

    Result: The NNTV is between 200–700 to prevent one case of COVID-19 for the mRNA vaccine marketed by Pfizer, while the NNTV to prevent one death is between 9000 and 50,000 (95% confidence interval), with 16,000 as a point estimate. The number of cases experiencing adverse reactions has been reported to be 700 per 100,000 vaccinations. Currently, we see 16 serious side effects per 100,000 vaccinations, and the number of fatal side effects is at 4.11/100,000 vaccinations. For three deaths prevented by vaccination we have to accept two inflicted by vaccination. Conclusions: This lack of clear benefit should cause governments to rethink their vaccination policy.

    Unsurprisingly, there is a big yellow warning notifying readers of Concern about this peer reviewed paper.

    The authors also strongly advise against vaccinating children.

    • Adrian 7.1

      Interesting, but surely those who have the strongest reactions may well be those likeliest to suffer higher mortality rates if they contract Covid. Or is my cod-epidemiology all bullshit. I didn't get the sore arm but 2 days later I was uncharacteristicly grumpy ( my dear wife claims she couldn't tell any difference, as far as she is concerned I'm always grumpy ). Talking to others it appears that this is very common and no surprises there, it is just the dose doing its job. So is this considered an adverse reaction ?.

    • weka 7.2

      Would like to see some critical analysis of that and haven’t read the full article but first thoughts are that the issue isn’t just deaths, but deaths, disability, health system overload (and flow on effects), psychological trauma and societal impact. Looking at all of those on both sides.

    • Editractor 7.3

      It seems unusual that a journal's editorial office would issue an expression of concern about an article that they themselves accepted for publication. I'm guessing that the review process was not up to scratch.
      The only analysis I could find so far is a reddit thread. One of the main concerns is that the authors of the study have taken data on deaths AFTER vaccination (could be from other pre-existing conditions, especially in a frail population) and considered them deaths DUE to vaccination.

      The Safety of COVID-19 Vaccinations — We Should Rethink the Policy from COVID19

      • Cricklewood 7.3.1

        In so far as medical journals ie Lancet some of the published stuff re Covid has been absolute garbage some based on made up data. These have then been quietly withdrawn. Sadly made up info from the withdrawn studies is still being referenced and published as fact in new papers.

        Good read below…


        Given the money (profit) involved for big pharma and the horrendous track record of deciet etc I'ts very likely they are actively attacking any negative info re the vaccines or alternate existing treatments…

        They're no different to oil and tobacco in the way they behave.

        • Rosemary McDonald

          Given the money (profit) involved for big pharma and the horrendous track record of deceit etc

          A source of great mirth in some circles. It is not the antisocialantivaxxerarseholes that are causing all the vaccine hesitancy…Big Pharma's track record stands on it's own merits. They are most definitely their own worst enemy.

    • Siobhan 7.4

      So, with 1.02M NZ's having received the Covid vaccination do we have these sorts of numbers of adverse reactions?

      • Cricklewood 7.4.1

        1.02million doses given not a million people… anecdotally my partner does emergency relief in the healthcare sector. The employer arranged a mass vaccination onsite they had enough adverse reactions that they had to pull in all available relief staff the next day and were still short.

        No serious harm done but obviously made more than a few unwell not sure how or if this was recorded.

        • Siobhan

          Disclaimer ..just realised in my rush I may sound a bit confrontational (the perils of asking questions while "working"….these are just genuine questions…

          So 'adverse reactions' ..does that mean something medically notable and recordable ..or does it include someone feeling a bit "off" ..which may or may not be psychosomatic? And or..if the reaction is so mild as to not be recorded should it even be used in the debate on whether to vacinate or not?

          • McFlock

            Really, anyone in the health sector getting a reaction bad enough to stop them working the next day should be reporting it. (edit: everyone should report it, but healthcare workers should have the means and motivation to do so more than others)

            There's a lag in the covid vax adverse event publication (currently only to 22 May / half a million doses), but the reactions they're getting are :

            Of the 3,707 total reports, the top 10 reported adverse events were:

            • Headache: 1,389 reports
            • Dizziness: 1,088 reports
            • Pain at the injection site: 994 reports
            • Nausea: 905 reports
            • Lethargy: 849 reports
            • Flu-like illness: 600 reports
            • Fever: 520 reports
            • Musculoskeletal pain: 427 reports
            • Feeling hot and cold: 352 reports
            • Numbness: 236 reports

            These are all things that happened around the same time as the vaccination. Many might not have anything to do with it at all, or be psychosomatic. But it's fair enough to be oversensitive on this count, especially if even by that measure it saves lives.

      • McFlock 7.4.2

        Total adverse events seem to be in the ballpark.

        Deaths appear much lower than the study suggests (0.8/100k rather than 4/100k), and are reportedly lower than the expected death numbers w/o vax or covid anyway.

    • Matiri 7.5

      Has this paper been peer reviewed? Peer review exists to validate the conclusions and assess the quality of the research presented.

    • UncookedSelachimorpha 7.6

      I call "bullshit".

      For example, they claim you need to vaccinate 16,000 people to prevent one Covid death. Which means vaccinating 100% of the USA (with vaccines that are proven >90% effective at preventing death) would, by their calculations, only prevent 20,000 deaths! But the USA has already seen over 600,000 deaths so far.

      One problem in the article is they don't seem to be taking into account the infection pressure – you will see few deaths prevented by vaccination if you only study places that already have low rates of Covid infection (they mostly looked at Israel).

      Disgracefully – they attribute all deaths following a vaccination as being caused by the vaccination!! And of course a lot of elderly are being vaccinated. To quote their paper

      " approximately four people will die from the consequences of being vaccinated per 100,000 vaccinations

      To quote the source of their mortality data (Dutch, translated) – this is written directly above the table the authors took their data from:

      "Death after vaccination does not mean that a side effect of the vaccine is the cause of death."

    • Drowsy M. Kram 7.7

      Expression of Concern is worth reading, although it won't be everyone's cup of tea.

      Expression of Concern: Walach et al.
      The Safety of COVID-19 Vaccinations—We Should Rethink the Policy.
      Vaccines 2021, 9, 693
      Vaccines Editorial Office
      MDPI, St. Alban-Anlage 66, 4052 Basel, Switzerland; vaccines@mdpi.com

      The journal is issuing this expression of concern to alert readers to significant concerns regarding the paper cited above.

      Serious concerns have been raised about misinterpretation of the data and the conclusions.

      The major concern is the misrepresentation of the COVID-19 vaccination efforts and misrepresentation of the data, e.g., Abstract: “For three deaths prevented by vaccination we have to accept two inflicted by vaccination”. Stating that these deaths linked to vaccination efforts is incorrect and distorted.

      We will provide an update following the conclusion of our investigation. The authors have been notified about this Expression of Concern.

      Alas, the damage is done. Unsurprisingly, 5th columnists (Walach et al.) are acting to undermine the global public health vaccination program which aims to reduce COVID transmission, disability and death.

      Walach: "a researcher in complementary and alternative medicine"

      Conclusion: amongst all his previous nonsense, Walach’s new publication stands out, I feel, as the most stupid and the most dangerous. The mistakes seem too obvious to not be deliberate. Let’s hope the journal editor in chief (who failed miserably when publishing this idiocy) has the wisdom to retract it swiftly. One of its editors already tweeted:

      "I have resigned from the Editorial Board of @Vaccines_MDPI following the publication of this article. It is grossly negligent and I can’t believe it passed peer-review. I hope it will be retracted."

      And another ed-board member had this to say:
      "…how in the FUCK did this piece of shit get past the editorial staff? Without a single author being a virologist or vaccinologist?
      Post-vaccine death = vaccine-caused death?

      It's being used in anti-vax propaganda."

      • Rosemary McDonald 7.7.1

        I'm no statistician but I suspected there was some over- simplification of available data going on. There's been a lot of that going around recently.

        There's precedent set already for doing this with respect to Te Virus, with many commentators expressing concern that some countries are including people who were already gasping their last as being deaths caused by Covid. Dying within 28 days of a positive PCR test…even if asymptomatic…will get you on the List. I don't understand why the WHO or the UN did not insist on a worldwide standard on what exactly constitutes a Death by Covid 18 months ago.

        Sadly, suggesting that a person was clearly dying of advanced old age or cancer or diabetes or COPD, and a positive PCR Covid test was irrelevant with relation to what ultimately caused them to shuffle off their mortal coil has been considered a heartless attitude. We can have none of that 'they were going to die anyway' rubbish.

        Yet its now OK to cite old age and pining for the fjords when it comes to death following vaccination. Confusing that.

        • Drowsy M. Kram

          Rosemary, enjoyed your “pining for the fjords” reference, although, while laugher is the best medicine, I prefer not to make light of the tragic COVID-19 death toll.

          Coronavirus Cases:: 182,478,493
          Deaths: 3,951,415

          Some analyses indicate that deaths due to COVID-19 infection have been under-estimated, quite significantly in various countries. "Fill your booties" wink

          Estimation of total mortality due to COVID-19 (from the IHME)



          Fun fact: Christopher Murray, current director of the IMHE [The Institute for Health Metrics and Evaluation is an independent global health research center at the University of Washington], "was born to a New Zealand-born scientist father".

          • Rosemary McDonald

            “…deaths due to COVID-19 infection have been under-estimated, quite significantly… ”

            Yep, I've read that. But I've also read accounts that with more people being vaccinated…some communities now seeing more serious illness/deaths shortly after Covid the vaccination than they ever saw from Covid the Disease.

            Like here in NZ for instance. We know of two seventy year olds (one ridiculously fit and the other managing post heart bypass issues) who caught the Covid on the way back from South America. That was early when you went into self isolation. Both felt crooksh and tested positive. Both recovered within a couple of days after what they measured as a medium impact cold.

            OTOH we know of a couple in their fifties who broke land speed records to get Pfizer vaccinated, despite not being in Groups 1,2 or even 3. Both felt quite flu ridden for about a week…and the one who got their flu jab after two weeks is still sick as a dog more than a fortnight later.

            • Drowsy M. Kram

              Yep, I've read that. But I've also read accounts that with more people being vaccinated…some communities now seeing more serious illness/deaths shortly after Covid the vaccination than they ever saw from Covid the Disease.

              We've been here before; maybe it comes down to who and/or what you choose to believe. I prefer to (continue to) put my trust in consensus expert opinion, often even when that opinion is at odds with my personal PoV, because (typically) that trust has been rewarded. Individual results may vary.

  8. Poission 8

    gentle Zephyr from the south,and energy demand surges.


    spot electricity pass $500mw during daylight.not good.

  9. Treetop 9

    What will the National caucus decide and when?

    Todd Muller seeing out term depends on National's caucus Judith Collins


    • Treetop 9.1

      Does the National caucus get any lower. Muller is on leave until the end of July to look after his partner who is having a significant medical procedure.

      • Jimmy 9.1.1

        Interesting comment from Nash this morning on One Zb. Apparently Muller voted against increasing sick leave and yet here he is taking time off again.

        • Treetop

          Muller probably needs the time off for himself as well.

          Muller will exit before the next election due to being the scape goat by the National caucus.

  10. Jenny how to get there 10


    Lessons for NZ

    Covid: How Delta exposed Australia's pandemic weaknesses

    By Frances Mao
    BBC News, Sydney


    14 minutes ago

    ….Officials documented cases where travellers were catching the virus in quarantine, despite staying in separate rooms.

    Experts raised concerns about air recirculation and the lack of fresh air in city hotels.

    …..The other weak spot is workers at the border.

    ….When they step off their plane, returnees are greeted by an intimidating coterie of soldiers, police officers and nurses – masked-up and gloved to escort arrivals straight to quarantine.

    But the same rigour isn't applied to other workers – like drivers transporting arrivals.


    Let us learn from the mistakes of others.

  11. Treetop 11

    Reckless to have a trans Tasman bubble as the situation in Australia is still unfolding. Any announcement to resume travel from any state in Australia without a 14 day quarantine period is premature.

    MIQ has its risks, what the hell is the NZ government thinking?

    • Foreign Waka 11.1

      Are they thinking? First we were hailed as the "near perfect" example and that lead to a seemingly complacency to follow through. All the stories about vaccines, how the orders were made as one of the first etc… I don't believe a thing they say. Meanwhile, we are opening boarders to infected people because the industry is so blip blip greedy that they cannot contain themselves. I have no respect for the businesses or the current government. Lots of BS, no action in key areas but a lot of political correct blah blah and slowly eyebrows raise whether we are being told porkies all the way.

      • Incognito 11.1.1

        Aren’t you running a business?

        • Sabine

          You would not believe how many business owner want the bubble closed.

          In fact, you would maybe have a hard time believing how many business owner never wanted one open.

          But then the government can either support those businesses that truly depend on overseas tourism because they priced NZ'lers out or they can open a bubble, endanger everyone in NZ and get some much needed foreign currency coming in.

          But not all business owner in this country want a bubble or want to see Kiwis coming back from OZ going all 'well be right' and besides its MY RIGHT to travel.

          • Incognito

            There are good, bad, and ugly business owners. You wouldn’t believe it, but they are linked in what’s called society by some and economy by others. In fact, Government can only act in a binary way, i.e. for or against, black or white, damned or doomed, good or bad, et cetera.

            Simple as that.

            • Sabine

              who knew?

              So why then ask someone if he or she has a business? if it has nothing to do with anything?

              But yeah, just like anything in the world, our government, the labour party, the national party etc, they all have the good the bad and the ugly.

              Good to see you understand that, simple as. 🙂

              • Incognito

                It has a lot to do with it, but you don’t want to understand that, which I can fully understand, as you have the right to remain ignorant, which I fully respect, of course, as you can tell, you know.

                You don’t even know the function of contact tracing. Do you scan or does that have nothing to do with anything either?


      • Treetop 11.1.2

        Are they thinking? No not how they need to think with keeping out more infectious strains and the management of outbreaks.

        Telling the difference between a cold and a Covid infection at this time of year is dependent on testing.

        A make it up as we go attitude simply will not do. The best defence against Covid's more infectious mutations is lock out and not lockdown.

        Lockout would avoid the health system being pressured with cluster outbreaks. The health system is already being pressured through contact tracing and testing.

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