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Open mike 29/08/2020

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, August 29th, 2020 - 195 comments
Categories: open mike - Tags:

Open mike is your post.

For announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose.

The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the Policy).

Step up to the mike …

195 comments on “Open mike 29/08/2020 ”

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  1. PsyclingLeft.Always 1
    29 August 2020 at 7:48 am

    Political "Insight"?…well, there is this. :

    Linda Clark senses a certain sensationalism creeping into some political commentary – possibly stemming from the “entertainment-ification”, to coin a neologism, of politics.

    “The commentators that really grate for me are not the Matthew Hootons or the Neale Joneses – the people who are ‘in the game’.

    “The commentators – and I think they are political commentators, even though they would deny it vehemently – are the Mike Hoskings, the Kate Hawkesbys. The people who know very little about the subjects they talk about.

    “They take no responsibility for the damage they do on the way through … and that’s much more damaging."

    https://www.rnz.co.nz/programmes/the-detail/story/2018761232/insight-spin-and-political-commentary

    As I call it, Majick Radio…and similar neo infotainment. For morons. fark, cant stand it…: )

    I remember when sir Key started his messin' with NZ TV. And Julie "Reality" Christie rolled out the mindlessness….for the mindless. (as well as some Flag waving : )

    Heres a (pretty) brutal, but apt take on it…

    https://thedailyblog.co.nz/2017/06/07/duncan-grieves-unbelievable-blog-supporting-julie-christie-highlights-every-criticism-ever-made-about-his-cash-for-copy-blog-the-spinoff/

    Absolutely the Dumbing Down of NZ TV.

    Where is OUR PBS !? RNZ has lost something somehow…not quite sure about them now. I mean having Michelle Boag on as talking head? Well I spose that was before the Leak… but Ben Thomas ?! (described as Hootens mini-me by "someone") lol

    Anyway I get a laugh out of Steve Braunias : The secret diary of the Collins gang. "Special Agent Hooten"..lmao : ) Pay at the Herald..Free In ODT : )

    • ianmac 1.1
      29 August 2020 at 10:27 am

      Thanks for that PLA. What is annoying is the knowledge that those partisans who spit it out is accepted by some as true news. What can we do about it?

    • Morrissey 1.2
      29 August 2020 at 8:47 pm

      Bomber Bradbury sums up the wretched Christie perfectly in these two sentences:

      Julie Christie was cultural herpes who used TV to distract and dumb down a country. She is the McDonalds of entertainment and is nothing to celebrate or support.

      However, as Bradbury wrote that, he must surely have felt a pang of guilt at his own role in a thankfully almost completely forgotten Christie-level program called Stake-Out, which consisted of secretly filming electricians, decorators and other working stiffs as they committed heinous Shane Jones-type transgressions, and then confronting them in the most high-handed and humiliating manner. It was the sleaziest, nastiest and most spurious local television program since Brian Edwards' lamentable attempt at a comeback in 2003….

      https://morrisseybreen.blogspot.com/2018/01/edwards-at-large-excruciatingly.html

      • PsyclingLeft.Always 1.2.1
        29 August 2020 at 11:18 pm

        lol…luckily my Mind/Sanity Protector must have been working for the Bomber's Bomb : )

        He's always been a loose canon…: ) and The good Dr Edwards…similar. Ah well…

        Satire…sweet satire is at least still around.

  2. Dennis Frank 2
    29 August 2020 at 8:21 am

    I went to check out the Green School yesterday, 12 mins driving from home to get there. They explained that the scheduled tour was booked out – due to pandemic rules they could only cater for 20 – which was why the register button on their website didn't work last night!

    Had a chat with the CEO (Chris Edwards), who was doing welcomes, then left after a brief scan of the site & buildings. See that in this report from last summer: https://educationcentral.co.nz/green-school-is-coming-to-new-zealand/

    New Plymouth mayor, Neil Holdom, says he wholeheartedly supports the establishment of Green School New Zealand in Taranaki. “New Zealand has a long history of innovation and leadership and what the world needs now are more environmental entrepreneurs tackling the problems brought on by a rapidly growing population, unable or unwilling to mitigate its impact on our planet."

    “As a parent of three children, married to a teacher with a Masters in Education, specialising in working with gifted and talented children, as well as those with special needs, it is my view that our current model of education will need to evolve significantly to effectively prepare our young people for the future.” Holdom says the Green School model has the potential to blaze a new trail in New Zealand’s education sector.

    “Our government has set some ambitious goals for New Zealand’s future. New Plymouth District Council has set some ambitious goals for our district’s future, and these goals will not be achieved by sticking to traditional attitudes and approaches. We need to support the Green School NZ team and help them transform their vision into reality in Taranaki, as a gift to our children.”

    We know state education has failed to respond to climate change. That's why kids need a positive alternative. The adapt to survive ethos is evident:

    After a decade of educating change makers in Bali, we bring with us a new model of education… Beyond mastering mathematics and literacy, our students will learn to think like entrepreneurs through student-guided, hands-on projects.

    Connected deeply and richly to the natural environment, students will learn Maori cultural values intertwined into the spirit of the school, grounding us in the whenua, the land. Most importantly, Green School students cultivate a love of learning as a lifelong pursuit in and of itself. https://gsnz.openapply.com/

    • Robert Guyton 2.1
      29 August 2020 at 8:39 am

      "the Green School model has the potential to blaze a new trail in New Zealand’s education sector. "

      Why on earth would anyone support the blazing of a new trail?? How terrifying that thought is!! Leaving the well-worn path – no thank you!!! Stick to the track, Tootle!

      • Adrian Thornton 2.1.1
        29 August 2020 at 9:00 am

        "the Green School model has the potential to blaze a new trail in New Zealand’s education sector. " …for the rich and wealthy.

        • Robert Guyton 2.1.1.1
          29 August 2020 at 9:09 am

          For every child. The learnings from these front-runners will be taken and applied in every school in New Zealand (best case scenario). Who else will trial these systems and approaches? Enviroschools has been operating in New Zealand, with Government funding, for years and years; an injection of funds into an already-ahead-of-the-play enviro-school like this one gives the whole country a boost in the green direction.

          • In Vino 2.1.1.1.1
            29 August 2020 at 11:48 am

            From Dennis Frank comment 2:

            "We know state education has failed to respond to climate change. That's why kids need a positive alternative. The adapt to survive ethos is evident:"

            Now why would state education have failed so miserably? Surely not because it has been under-resourced and deliberately run down compared to private education since the neo-liberal privatisation push that started in the 1980s?

            Why was the phasing out of state funding for private education ever written into the Green Party Education Policy if it was just a bit of old baggage that should be swept aside when a situation like this arose?

            Do you not fear that the moment a school like this gets such a boon, the whole profit-gouging Charter School crowd will be queuing up asking for the same preferential treatment? Under a possible future National govt, would the Greens not look ridiculous arguing against privatisers' Charter schools after this episode?

            If you so strongly believe in the innocence and beauty of such élitist schools, please be honest and openly advocate altering the Green Party Education Policy so that people can see what the Greens really stand for.

            I am getting tired of the 'My Party, Right or Wrong' cant.

          • RosieLee 2.1.1.1.2
            29 August 2020 at 1:20 pm

            Learnings? What's wrong with good old normal lessons?

        • Incognito 2.1.1.2
          29 August 2020 at 12:25 pm

          They [the Green School] were also offering scholarships to local children and were building positive relationships with Tangata whenua.

          https://www.stuff.co.nz/taranaki-daily-news/opinion/300094305/new-plymouth-mayor-explains-why-he-supported-private-schools-117m-government-funding

          Don’t you hate it when things are not neatly B & W?

          • In Vino 2.1.1.2.1
            29 August 2020 at 2:38 pm

            That is how the privatisers always work. Schools were offered special temptations to suck them into Bulk Funding of salaries in the '90s, and the cant at the time was always, "What possible harm can there be in this innocent, benign gesture? How could you be so dogmatic and blind as to oppose something that is good for education?"

            Sorry, I don't buy it.

            • Incognito 2.1.1.2.1.1
              29 August 2020 at 8:35 pm

              The four ‘shovel ready’ Ministers ‘bought it’ because it met the criteria of the CRRF.

              The funding for this individual construction project is not some ideological Education policy such as Bulk Funding or Charter Schools; that is false equivalence.

              The scholarships are real enough (see my comment @ 2.1.1.2.2.1).

          • McFlock 2.1.1.2.2
            29 August 2020 at 2:41 pm

            lol

            What percentage of students are/will be on full ride scholarships?

            Nobody is saying that this particular project won't create jobs. Just that it's a profit-driven industry contrary to Green Party policy.

            The mistake has been acknowledged, it still pisses me off but fair enough.

            Now the worry is that, of the "shovel ready" projects, this one was maybe closest to Green Party ideals. And that's not on the Greens, that's on NZ.

            • Incognito 2.1.1.2.2.1
              29 August 2020 at 8:28 pm

              I can’t possibly comment on the other parts in your comment but I did try to find out more about the scholarships.

              But we do have a scholarship program already. We're committed that 50% of the school as we grow will be key, first of all, and the scholarships will be available for local learners first.

              https://www.euronews.com/living/2020/05/26/most-of-our-time-is-spent-outside-would-you-send-your-kids-to-a-green-school

              Green School aims to allocate 20% of its places to scholarship students from Bali and other Indonesian islands. These scholarships enable some of Indonesia’s brightest, most creative, and engaged students the chance to receive a world-class education.

              https://www.greenschool.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/Balinese-Scholarship-Program.pdf

              Currently, there are 508 students at the school from 35 countries including 43 full scholarship Balinese students.

              https://infocus.wief.org/where-the-school-has-no-walls/

              Not quite yet reached the target of 20%.

              I also read that 11/55 students at the NZ Green School are not fee-paying because they are children of staff.

              • McFlock …
                29 August 2020 at 9:05 pm

                That first advert made my fists itch.

                Maybe I'm just too cynical in me old age.

                • Incognito …
                  29 August 2020 at 10:22 pm

                  I tend to ignore almost everything else when I’m searching for specific info; ads don’t bother me the slightest. Dare I say it, I am pretty good at finding things.

                  • McFlock …
                    29 August 2020 at 11:39 pm

                    The columns that look suspiciously like paid content especially vex me, for some reason. At best it's shite journalism asking patsy questions, but usually it's simply a publication masquerading as honest when it's simply spouting any old bullshit for cash.

                    There was zero information in that first link. There was shit that looked like information, but there were few actual specifics. Even the number of people on scholarships didn't say full ride scholarships (zero dollars, zero transaction fees) vs partial discounts on the massive fees.

                    The more I read about it, the more this "school" looks like it will churn out a bunch of trust fund kids who will spend their 20s instagramming their world tours before walking into C-level jobs in their family's business.

                    I do not see it churning out a cadre of environmental heroes.

                    • Incognito …
                      30 August 2020 at 12:29 am

                      I have not looked to school programme or pedagogy behind it because the precipitating issue has nothing to do with education as such.

                      I do not see it churning out a cadre of environmental heroes.

                      That’s a shame because we obviously need more heroes. How about a hybrid between Zorro and the Green Lantern? You might well be correct with your sceptical (cynical?) view. However, in the interim, it will create jobs and stimulate the local economy.

                    • McFlock …
                      30 August 2020 at 1:30 am

                      It's not the programme, it's the vibe that comes through from their marketing.

                      Saying that someone who rocks up in a ferrari shouldn't be judged on their environmental impact because they might have made a huge effort and ditched the private jet… yeah, whatevs.

                    • Incognito []
                      30 August 2020 at 12:23 pm

                      Yup, the Ferraris are abundant among the Green School alumni. So predictable, so true, no need to check, of course. Facts do not matter, opinions rule. Yeah, I know this is most likely a cherry-picked selection of their ‘success stories’ and I’m as ‘convinced’ as you are that all the other alumni are smiling assassins without any empathy for the poor and disenfranchised.

                      https://www.greenschool.org/bali/our-alumni/

                    • Andre …
                      30 August 2020 at 7:42 am

                      … looks like it will churn out a bunch of trust fund kids who will spend their 20s instagramming their world tours before walking into C-level jobs in their family's business. (All the while congratulating themselves how environmental they are.)

                      My reaction to rummaging around on their site and the rest of the webz was pretty much the same.

            • weka 2.1.1.2.2.2
              29 August 2020 at 11:51 pm

              "Nobody is saying that this particular project won't create jobs. Just that it's a profit-driven industry contrary to Green Party policy."

              I'm under the impression that the jobs are building industry jobs, and one of the covid priorities was to stop building firms from going under. i.e. keep existing jobs.

              I agree that the funding model of the GS and international students is an issue, but am not sure how it's too different from the tertiary education sectors large reliance on international student fees.

              "Now the worry is that, of the "shovel ready" projects, this one was maybe closest to Green Party ideals. And that's not on the Greens, that's on NZ."

              I understand that Shaw got quite a lot of gains in selection process, which was pleasantly surprising. I wish they would release the details on this. Not all the business details, but show case the green gains better. Might be a conflict between Shaw's Ministerial role and the GP though, or they just don't have time.

              • McFlock …
                30 August 2020 at 1:26 am

                was it hipkins or robertson saying this was a project the Greens specifically were supporting?

                Sounds like they divvied up the applications between the party and it was largely political horse trading. But it's on NZ as a whole that there wasn't e.g. a tidal generator and other renewables close enough to submit applications that the Greens could get behind.

                And yeah, I'm not completely fine with the tertiary education sector marketing over merit philosophy, either. But then the entire fees thing pisses me off, and it's slowly turning into a perception of some students that they're paying for the degree, not the education.

                • weka …
                  30 August 2020 at 9:29 am

                  Agreed that this is on NZ. We have the green edge that NZ wants, not what we need by any means.

                  The impression I have is that the four budget Ministers (GR, Jones, Shaw, don't know who the fourth was) worked through the process of shortlisting, and in that process Shaw worked on getting the projects more green generally. This surprised me, that there was this degree of influence, but it's hard to tell specifically.

                  Hipkins, when pressed, said it was something the Greens wanted, but I don't think that is true (the caucus wasn't involved in the decision afaik), it was Shaw and his team. So Hipkins was too removed to have a good informed opinion, and/or there was an advantage to Labour in presenting it this way. But his first response was to say it wasn't Ed money and journos should ask the relevant Ministers about it.

                  I haven't listened to what GR said. But afaik Labour signed off on it and were ok with it too. It met the main criteria (jobs) so I expect all the parties were pretty happy.

      • Rosemary McDonald 2.1.2
        29 August 2020 at 9:19 am

        We get your point…

      • Macro 2.1.3
        29 August 2020 at 9:38 pm

        Aww that takes me back Robert. "Tootle" was my favourite book as a 4 year old! But Tootle was a little steam engine Robert – fossil fuelled on coal!

    • Sabine 2.2
      29 August 2020 at 8:56 am

      did you ask him if the 'families of the international students that get to live with their children in NZ get a permanent and or work permit to live in NZ courtesy of the 48.000 school fee?

      did you ask him how many kiwi kids can get access to his school for courtesy of 24.000 fee?

      And is that really worth the career of a Green polititan who put his own likes above that of the party, and it is really a green school when you import people – whole families from overseas to live here, you now, the all vaunted carbon foot print – or is that only something we should worry about when it is a public venture rather then a private one.

      I believe that no one in this country would care one bit if this amount of money would have been spend equally on the poorest schools in NZ for the same type of curriculum, but alas it is getting spend on a 250 kids and their f amily who are mainly from overseas.

      This schools should have never been in the shovel ready programm, if they can't pay builders atm or pay them with the fees they collect already then the best the should get is the wage subsidy, maybe a government loan – free of interest and repayable from a years after the loan was issues, see the exact same conditions other private businesses (not AIRNZ of course) have given.

      For both the Government and the Greens, this was a dumb move. And i don't watch any of the guys that are so often spoken about here cause they have nothing to say of interest, but i see people every day, and this yesterday was a point of discussion. Tone: I can't stand this government giving money willy nilly to everyone and their dog. Try counter that with your 'its green". Good luck with that.

      This was the most tone deaf decision this year. It wins the golden toilet seat.

      In the meantime our kids sit in cold, damp, leaky, totally non green – can't give a fuck type building – schools and are told to wait a few more years for something better.

      ” We know state education has failed to respond to climate change. That’s why kids need a positive alternative.”

      yeah, because like right now , we don’t give a shit and shovel money up the arses of people who will do everything to keep kids from poor people out. 24.000 a year is not affordable for 90% of people in this country. That is why the state fails in anything regarding climate change. Because it can’t be bothered doing something. And besides, if the private businesses such as this, that serve the very few, very rich and very conntected don’t get money where would people like our beige suits in parliament get jobs once they are done giving taxpayers money to private businesses.

      • Robert Guyton 2.2.1
        29 August 2020 at 9:11 am

        It was money from the Covid Recovery fund for shovel-ready, applied-for, criteria-meeting construction projects that would boost local economies. Education is provided-for (or not) in another budget. Shaw has worked hard to boost those as well.

        • RosieLee 2.2.1.1
          29 August 2020 at 1:28 pm

          So State schools which have outstripped their capacity because of roll growth and are now way overcrowded, or old schools which are just crappy for clearly observed reasons, have to wait years for Ministry funded expansion and improvement plans. Yet a private school with wealthy feepaying parents scores 11 million odd. Dressing this up with green virtue signalling doesn't cut it. It's bullshit.

          • SPC 2.2.1.1.1
            29 August 2020 at 5:56 pm

            Labour set the rules whereby the money ($3B in a fund set up 1 April) was only available to business for projects impacted by the pandemic.

            It's entirely separate from the PGF – that NZF got set up 3 years ago for provincial economic growth/community development spending.

            As for the money spent on school buildings, a separate part of the education budget.

            • Incognito 2.2.1.1.1.1
              29 August 2020 at 9:04 pm

              Integrated Schools are responsible for the upkeep of their buildings, as they own them.

      • Dennis Frank 2.2.2
        29 August 2020 at 9:28 am

        It would be better for you to ask Jacinda those questions, Sabine. James told us he was approving budget recommendations, so it was a coalition funding initiative. If the concept of `Labour led' seems valid to you, give that a try with her.

        • Shanreagh 2.2.2.1
          29 August 2020 at 11:16 am

          Yes he was announcing with his Ministerial hat on (as Associate Minister of Finance) as I understood it, not as his leader of the Green party hat.

          Seems that this fundamental constitutional point has been overlooked in the rush to condemn. I guess he could have said ‘I won't announce’ but then that would probably go against yet another constitutional expectation that the time for 'fighting/concerns' is before the decision is made while you are part of the team (ie coalition) making the decision.

          In view of all the hoo-ha have I missed something here? Are people not able to see the nuances and difference between MPs/parties and Ministers in Govt?

          • Dennis Frank 2.2.2.1.1
            29 August 2020 at 12:16 pm

            In view of all the hoo-ha have I missed something here?

            Not obviously. He apologised to GP members, but I didn't hear a specific reason for the apology, so I presume Green sectarianism required a ritualised formality – sufficiently general and bland to appease those into purity at the expense of coalition consensus.

            Are people not able to see the nuances and difference between MPs/parties and Ministers in Govt?

            Some commentators here qualify for that description. Those that went straight into shock-horror mode in response to his announcement, plus those for whom partisan ideology is meant to defeat the common good.

            • Incognito 2.2.2.1.1.1
              29 August 2020 at 12:31 pm

              Well said.

              • Dennis Frank …
                29 August 2020 at 12:41 pm

                I've appreciated your stance on the situation during the past couple of days, btw. I felt the need to refrain due to lack of explanation for the announcement (in msm) so, like Weka, I held off forming an opinion until James briefed us.

                • Incognito …
                  29 August 2020 at 2:11 pm

                  Understood and appreciated. My opinion crystallised over the last few days too; the communication was lacking although Chlöe Swarbrick did a very good job of responding to questions in her daily Facebook sessions. It should have been handled better and not left to me having to go on FB and watch long videos in search of the scant answers.

        • Sabine 2.2.2.2
          29 August 2020 at 3:02 pm

          did you not go to the school to speak to the people there? that is why i asked you if you also asked these questions as i personally would have asked. 🙂

          Cause that is why i asked you :). As for labour, well, its the lesser evil, i don't really expect anything from them. Talk to Jacinda, she is kinder gentler then Judith, but it seems as happy as to sponsor private business that serves no one but the very rich.

      • CoralSea 2.2.3
        29 August 2020 at 10:17 am

        I'm beyond gutted with this. It's just a flash immigration hotel masquerading as a school.

        • Incognito 2.2.3.1
          29 August 2020 at 12:34 pm

          Actually, it is a secure communication facility for Five Eyes and the 5G emissions will be high. \sarc

    • RedLogix 2.3
      29 August 2020 at 11:37 am

      In other words, this Green School is a sound and valuable initiative …. but ideology.

      • Dennis Frank 2.3.1
        29 August 2020 at 12:23 pm

        Ideology embeds. Problem is, the world changes around it. Ongoing relevance of the ideology then comes into question. In times of rapid change (such as now) folks often attach limpet-like to some rock of ideology amongst the turbulence. Those going with the flow cruise on by, looking askance at the weirdos as they drift past…

      • Sabine 2.3.2
        29 August 2020 at 3:04 pm

        oh if you can afford 48.000 a year for schooling a kid and get a permanent residence permit it sure is sound.

        It just makes no sense what so ever for the tax payers whose kids sit in cold, damp, over crowed schools with leaky roofs, shotty internet connection and not enough ipads for all kids, nor student aids and free school lunches. These are nice to have projects and thus are not getting anything.

  3. Gabby 3
    29 August 2020 at 8:43 am

    The owners will be able to pay for the work the government is doing in no time.

    • Sabine 3.1
      29 August 2020 at 9:00 am

      If it is a refundable loan and then they can write that loan of as a business expense, and they could have had that loan from a bank then too.

      • Robert Guyton 3.1.1
        29 August 2020 at 9:12 am

        Their application was valid and sound and the process for selection was shared across parties.

      • Gabby 3.1.2
        29 August 2020 at 9:19 am

        I suspect one of the keys to becoming a millionaire is getting other folk to pay for your stuff.

        • Sabine 3.1.2.1
          29 August 2020 at 3:06 pm

          that however is very very true.

          These guys will be very busy voting National soon in order to not pay taxes. But hey, they are very rich so its understandable.

      • Sacha 3.1.3
        29 August 2020 at 12:35 pm

        NZ banks are appalling at investing in anything beyond housing loans. If they were doing their jobs then yes, we would not require any public subsidies like this.

  4. Adrian Thornton 4
    29 August 2020 at 8:56 am

    James Shaw apology last night has left a gaping hole in The Green Party as far as their own political credibility, and more importantly their values and principles as an alternative left leaning party to support goes.

    Shaw has on the one hand confirmed what we already knew about him..that he is a liberal free market green politician ( with all the numerous contradictions and unseemly contortions that involves ) but on the other hand he has shown us something new about himself…that he is a straight out gutless bullshitter ( “We were thinking about it in terms of building and constructions, not education") and worse than that it turns out Shaw is actually one of, and represents the interests of, the elitist greens that the working classes have always suspected that greens were being constantly drawn toward ideologically…probably one of the most self serving, narcissistic, political groups operating today….yuk, the Greens should have made Shaw step down…..not only is he an elitist prick, he is a stupid one, imagine doing this just before an election..what a fucking dummy.

    • Bearded Git 4.2
      29 August 2020 at 9:11 am

      Adrian-Slight over-reaction there perhaps? Shaw realised he had made a dumb mistake and has now owned up.

      Shaw is the man who saved the Green Party at the last election and has been largely instrumental in keeping it relevant during this term of government.

      Adrian-perhaps you would like to compare the policies of the Greens to the other parties in order to justify your manic attack on the Party, rather than justify the attack on this relatively minor issue? For instance what do you think of their Wealth Tax?

      The media climbed all over this comparatively small mistake in order to try to push the Greens below 5%.

      • Adrian Thornton 4.2.1
        29 August 2020 at 10:10 am

        @ bearded git, Over reaction? not at all.

        For some reason half the people on this site don't seem to feel the need or believe it appropriate that citizens hold the politicians that they say represent them to any kind of account.

        Lets just make it clear here what James Shaw just did…he knowingly and under the name of the NZ Green Party funded a private elite school to the tune of 12 million dollars..in direct contradiction to the stated aims of that party…why?,..seriously if that isn't plainly obvious to you and you really think he made a mistake, well then you are just being willingly stupid and there is no need for us to continue this conversation.

    • Robert Guyton 4.3
      29 August 2020 at 9:14 am

      Your personal dislike for James Shaw is making you vitriolic and unreasonable. James Shaw is highly regarded in Parliament across the spectrum of politicians.

    • weka 4.4
      29 August 2020 at 9:24 am

      interesting. So you want the Green Party out of parliament. How would that work in terms of your politics? We'd then either have a Labour only govt, or a Lab/NZF one, or a Nat one. Please explain how this is an improvement on what we have now?

      • Bearded Git 4.4.1
        29 August 2020 at 9:41 am

        Labour 44 National 39 Act 6 NZF 4 Greens 4.9 Wasted 2.1

        Say hello to PM Crusher.

      • Adrian Thornton 4.4.2
        29 August 2020 at 10:21 am

        No what I want is just one political party in NZ that isn't headed by a liberal, free market elitist bullshit artist… I know that it is regarded as extremely unreasonable and almost radical around here to demand highly held values and principles from our selected political representatives… you and others here obviously don't and that's your prerogative, but I do, and sure as hell am not going to shift from that position or apologize for demanding that high bar from people whom I vote for.

        • weka 4.4.2.1
          29 August 2020 at 10:29 am

          Calling for the Greens co-leader to step down 8 weeks before an election IS a call for them to be out of parliament (I don't think you are naive enough to believe that such a move wouldn't drop the GP vote).

          • mauī 4.4.2.1.1
            29 August 2020 at 1:00 pm

            5 years in the role…

            Does he have a track record of raising the party vote?

            Does he nail the limited TV appearances he gets?

            Is he making massive cock ups?

            • Robert Guyton 4.4.2.1.1.1
              29 August 2020 at 1:04 pm

              Under James Shaw's leadership, The Greens have been somewhere other than in Opposition; that is, at the levers of power, where we wanted them to be since forever and achieving as much as any small support party could ever hope to achieve, but, let's call for his head! Off with it!

            • Sacha 4.4.2.1.1.2
              29 August 2020 at 1:10 pm

              Does he have a track record of raising the party vote?

              Did you miss the media stories after the last election reflecting how his dogged work was all that stood between them and dropping below 5%.

              • mauī …
                29 August 2020 at 1:53 pm

                I must have. What I do remember though is his ability to increase the Wellington Central party vote by 10% over two elections. I naively thought he could do something similar at a national level. The sooner we find out what Chloe can do instead, the better imo.

                • Incognito …
                  29 August 2020 at 2:23 pm

                  I would have thought a Green Party supporter would not be into cult-style political leadership heroism but I guess for some the symbolism of a pixie princess riding a snow white unicorn has a too strong a pull to resist. Chlöe Swarbrick is a more natural communicator than Jacinda Ardern who tends to come across as patronising and too polished at times, in my opinion. Mind you, I haven’t watched any of Jacinda Ardern’s Facebook videos (I avoid videos like Covid) so I cannot really compare 🙂

            • weka 4.4.2.1.1.3
              29 August 2020 at 3:05 pm

              "Does he have a track record of raising the party vote?"

              Obviously yes. But it's not on *him. It's on the party.

              There are two co-leaders for a start, and it's hugely disrespectful to Davidson to talk about the party as if it is led by one white man in a suit.

              • Sabine …
                29 August 2020 at 3:08 pm

                That might very well be, the issue here is tho that most of the time Marama seems to be invisible. Maybe it is time for her to raise her profile.

                • weka …
                  29 August 2020 at 3:34 pm

                  yes, maybe you should. Instead of spending all this time dissing the suit, put some time into talking about Davidson and what she is doing.

        • McFlock 4.4.2.2
          29 August 2020 at 2:46 pm

          Burning something down in the hope that something closer to the ideal form will magically appear does not have a good track record of success in politics, especially democracy.

          • Incognito 4.4.2.2.1
            29 August 2020 at 9:11 pm

            In politics, they tend to water rather than burn down. I reckon there should be more bonfires of regulations in politics 😉

            • McFlock 4.4.2.2.1.1
              29 August 2020 at 9:21 pm

              The trouble with most regulations bonfires that have been proposed is that they have been proposed in the transparent desire that nothing will grow to replace the incinerated regulations.

    • Dennis Frank 4.5
      29 August 2020 at 9:33 am

      You'd have more credibility with that framing if you could prove that state schools are teaching the same curriculum as the Green School, eh?

      Kids need to upskill to survive now. As long as state educators ignore this imperative private educators will be seen by the public as providing the only intelligent option.

    • weka 4.6
      29 August 2020 at 9:38 am

      "that he is a straight out gutless bullshitter ( “We were thinking about it in terms of building and constructions, not education") "

      Having listened to the 30 min explanation by Shaw in the GP zoom last night, and then the 45min Q and A from members and the co-leaders, I think you are flat out wrong here. His indepth explanation of how government actually works, in this instance the process of development of the fund, how applications were received and dealt with, which people were involved (the four budget Ministers) and weren't involved (GP caucus), the speed at which massive decisions were being made during the first months of the pandemic, and the factors that affected his decision making. All of that was nuanced and real. I learned a lot and my guess is that I already knew more about how government works than you do.

      Your comment appears to be based on nothing other than a large amount of antipathy towards Shaw because he wears a suit, and a desire to beat the Green Party with your anti-neolib stick despite the Greens having the most progressive set of left wing policies in parliament. Your position here is mind boggling.

      For those that want to pay attention to what is happening, the Green Party education policy remains the same, and Shaw is completely behind that. The GP's other policies remain the same too.

      • garibaldi 4.6.1
        29 August 2020 at 10:41 am

        How can we have any faith in a leader who does the opposite of Party policy.? This own goal is just so stupid at this time that it beggars belief. A guaranteed vote loser like this is more serious than you believe. I find it so disheartening that he did this when everything is at stake. Trying to sweep it under the carpet by making out it is trivial doesn’t work. Something miraculous needs to happen for us to get to 5%.

        • weka 4.6.1.1
          29 August 2020 at 10:43 am

          People make mistakes. He didn't intentionally go against party policy, he just failed to take it into account when looking at a project through an entirely different lens while under a lot of pressure.

          I have more faith in Shaw now, because he immediately admitted the mistake and is making amends.

          • Rosemary McDonald 4.6.1.1.1
            29 August 2020 at 11:51 am

            …because he immediately admitted the mistake…

            https://www.stuff.co.nz/taranaki-daily-news/news/122568117/new-zealands-first-private-green-school-gets-117-million-from-government-for-campus-expansion?rm=a

            Shaw says it's not true to say the Greens have abandoned their policy to not publicly fund private schools.

            "Well that is our policy and this money doesn't go into the operations."

            Asked if he was being cute, Shaw replied, "there's a balance of objectives we're trying to achieve here – remember that we are going through an unprecedented time with Covid-19''.

            It's just a building, he says.

            "In terms of the infrastructure spend, it is in many ways just another construction project.''

            He's only become contrite under a barrage of justified criticism.

            And speaking of justifying shit…

            https://www.stuff.co.nz/taranaki-daily-news/news/122568117/new-zealands-first-private-green-school-gets-117-million-from-government-for-campus-expansion?rm=a

            Part of the argument for GSNZ being approved as a shovel ready project, was the economic benefits it would bring to the Taranaki economy.

            This has been reported as being $43m a year, according to a report prepared by Green School International and peer reviewed by the New Zealand Institute of Economic Research.

            However, GSNZ has refused to release a copy of the report to Stuff.

            “It has gone through all of the traditional and official checks and measures required by the government criteria for the shovel ready funding and GS (Green School) doesn’t feel it is our responsibility to justify this document.”

            …our elitist green educators don't feel they have to.

            There's murk here.

            • Sacha 4.6.1.1.1.1
              29 August 2020 at 12:29 pm

              Legitimate general issue there about accountability and transparency (especially given Shane Jones' involvement) – but do the other businesses which receive investment from that fund have to release their business case details to the public, if the govt agencies involved don't as part of that process?

              • Rosemary McDonald …
                29 August 2020 at 12:59 pm

                ..but do the other businesses which receive investment from that fund have to release their business case …

                If they don't they damn well ought to.

                I was just moving on from this whole saga until I read GSNZ's big 'Fuck you, taxpayer."

                I hope their flash laminated beams pull apart.

                https://www.researchgate.net/figure/Typical-failure-mode-of-a-glulam-beam-under-destructive-bending-test_fig6_265034172

                • Incognito …
                  29 August 2020 at 1:06 pm

                  I hope their flash laminated beams pull apart.

                  You are too kind.

                • Psycho Milt …
                  29 August 2020 at 1:24 pm

                  If they don't they damn well ought to.

                  Businesses keep information that could benefit their competition confidential for the obvious reason that it could benefit their competition. There's no reason the government should require them to make that info public just to satisfy your curiosity.

                  NZ is a representative democracy, ie we elect people to represent us and then leave them to do that until the next election. They shouldn't keep information confidential unnecessarily, but neither should they publish info that should be confidential.

                  I hope their flash laminated beams pull apart.

                  The roof falling on them would teach those kids not to go to a private school, huh?

                  • Rosemary McDonald …
                    29 August 2020 at 1:34 pm

                    Its government money…I am so over this 'commercially sensitive' and 'legally privileged and confidential' shit. If they can't declare all…bugger off and find your putea from another trough.

                    Don't worry about the children, they'll have plenty of warning. And they can always slum it at the state school down the road for free while the problem's sorted…oh, that's right…that school hasn't even got it's $400,000 yet to fix the leaks.

                    • Psycho Milt …
                      29 August 2020 at 2:20 pm

                      You're entitled that opinion, and the businesses are entitled to the opinion that if the government's making a special offer to help them fund commercial infrastructure development, then commercial considerations apply.

          • Incognito 4.6.1.1.2
            29 August 2020 at 1:03 pm

            It is a construction project, for buildings, not funding a Charter School from the Education Budget. People who cannot tell the legalistic difference or who cannot cope with it should sue the Government.

            The more I think about, the more I appreciate that this happened because it highlights so many issues and reasons why political discourse in NZ sucks big time and why we make no meaningful progress and, in fact, seem to be going backwards.

            • Sacha 4.6.1.1.2.1
              29 August 2020 at 1:07 pm

              It happened because Shaw's desire to promote Green gains during a campaign outweighed the predictable downside in this case. Neither he nor his staff caught the implications and managed expectations. Ongoing strategic comms failures in that machinery since Labour hired away some of their key people.

        • Dennis Frank 4.6.1.2
          29 August 2020 at 11:07 am

          guaranteed vote loser

          Not a snowball's chance in hell! Since the funding already had coalition support before James agreed, pissed-off Greens can't see Labour or NZF as better options. So you think they will refuse to vote at all?

          Human nature will prevail. Few folk persist in resentment at others in their tribe for long periods. Greens are even more inclined to tribal solidarity than others. Sometimes pragmatism must prevail over principle in politics. This is one such occasion. The disgruntled will gradually figure that out.

          • Incognito 4.6.1.2.1
            29 August 2020 at 1:12 pm

            They will stick to their values and principles and punish the Green Party into the lush wilderness of purity and moral virtue where unicorns graze and pixies flatter around unencumbered by Covid. That will teach them to betray their loyal followers once and forever.

        • mauī 4.6.1.3
          29 August 2020 at 12:21 pm

          How can we have any faith in a leader who does the opposite of Party policy.?

          Indeed.. facepalm moment of the year for the Greens.

      • Peter 4.6.2
        29 August 2020 at 1:11 pm

        The trouble is you're trying to look at the situation through a lens of reason without political bloodlust.

        The political and electoral environment we live in is one of emotion and insanity not reason. Funny thing is how some who dislike the Greens intensely and have no truck with them at all are now telling them what and how they should be doing things.

    • Incognito 4.7
      29 August 2020 at 12:48 pm

      The decision was indefensible by Shaw and he apologised for that.

      The project is defensible and worthy of funding, in my opinion. The $11.7 million would not have gone to a public school but to another shovel ready project or nowhere.

      Your character assassination of Shaw is telling.

      • Macro 4.7.1
        29 August 2020 at 1:55 pm

        The project is defensible and worthy of funding, in my opinion. The $11.7 million would not have gone to a public school but to another shovel ready project or nowhere.

        Exactly

        • Incognito 4.7.1.1
          29 August 2020 at 2:27 pm

          Actually, the money is not just ‘sitting’ in a jar somewhere as it all has to be borrowed and paid back in future.

        • Sabine 4.7.1.2
          29 August 2020 at 3:11 pm

          then maybe the issue is really that the Labour led government could not be bothered to add schools iwth leaky roofs and not enough classrooms to the shovel ready jobs. Cause it appears that there are quite a few schools that would like to be considered shovel ready, but they are told to wait for a better day or something.

    • Stuart Munro 5.1
      29 August 2020 at 9:17 am

      If it completes trials successfully, they'll do pretty well out of it. Bit of a gamble though.

    • Gabby 5.2
      29 August 2020 at 9:20 am

      Are they Otago farmers?

    • Stunned Mullet 5.3
      29 August 2020 at 9:26 am

      A qualified maybe… medicines can be imported without medsafe and government approval and supplied under section 29 of the medicines act.

      However you will struggle to find any medical professional in NZ who would vaccinate with a vaccine which had not be formally approved by Medsafe.

      https://www.medsafe.govt.nz/Profs/riss/unapp.asp

      https://www.medsafe.govt.nz/consumers/educational-material/WhereCanIFindInfoAboutVaccines.asp

      • Andre 5.3.1
        29 August 2020 at 9:50 am

        You got any idea off the top of your head how deeply Medsafe look into the manufacturing side of things before they approve a vaccine or drug?

        My general impression is that some former soviet countries might even be ahead of the west in general virology and stuff like phage treatments, so I find it plausible they could have developed an innovative safe and effective vacccine. Provided it's also manufactured up to standard.

        My experience with stuff manufactured in Russia is the quality control is appalling, particularly given the stuff I was involved in would very likely get used in safety critical applications. Then there's the apparent low value put on health and safety in russia generally. So I'd be awfully wary of a vaccine produced in Russia, but probably more comfortable with a vaccine developed in Russia but produced somewhere else more reliable.

        • Stunned Mullet 5.3.1.1
          29 August 2020 at 9:56 am

          Review of manufacturing is a critical part of Medsafe's review and approval process it would be unlikely to be approved without an on site audit by an approved agency such as the EMEA, MHRA, FDA etc

  6. Paul Murphy 6
    29 August 2020 at 9:18 am

    It is not repayable as a loan but is a a taxpayers donation as a good idea like Partnership Schools.

    • Incognito 6.1
      29 August 2020 at 1:17 pm

      More like the Transmission Gully PPP, which is a construction project just as the Green School is.

      • Rosemary McDonald 6.1.1
        29 August 2020 at 2:32 pm

        …like the Transmission Gully PPP …

        And hasn't that gone well.

        https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/122520140/transmission-gully-to-open-by-september-2021-after-lengthy-negotiations

        “It appears the agreement signed up to by the former government was loose and failed to protect taxpayers’ money. It seems to have been rushed through without the necessary due diligence being carried out.”

        He said Wellingtonians and taxpayers “deserve to know exactly what has happened”.

        “We want to make sure future governments aren’t left in the same predicament our Government has been.”

        • Incognito 6.1.1.1
          29 August 2020 at 2:42 pm

          The Green School is not a Partnership School as per Paul Murphy’s comment @ 6, it is a Private School.

          The CRRF funding is for construction of buildings.

          The CRRF funding is not a PPP.

          Transmission Gully is a construction project and PPP that is not going well.

          The only dots one can realistically connect here are the ones relating to construction.

          Everything else is misleading false comparison or equivalence.

  7. Cinny 7
    29 August 2020 at 9:32 am

    Step aside from your focus of the green school, take a minute and look at a bigger picture, because there are larger issues than that. Don't lose sight of the forest for the tree's and all that, excuse the pun

    First up this morning: She predicted our second wave, and she’s reviewing the global response. Former Prime Minister

    @HelenClarkNZ

    on what’s next in the course of this pandemic #nationnz

    https://www.threenow.co.nz/live-tv-guide/three

    It's live now yes Morena whanau heart

  8. Stephen D 8
    29 August 2020 at 9:42 am

    You got to love the way the left can turn on itself.
    The only winner here is Judith.

    • Robert Guyton 8.1
      29 August 2020 at 10:37 am

      It's our Achilles' heel.

    • RedLogix 8.2
      29 August 2020 at 10:40 am

      Yup. The monumental obduracy of the ideologically obsessed is on full display with this one.

      If the Green Party really is full of such idiots then I'm honestly conflicted about voting for them again.

      • Stephen D 8.2.1
        29 August 2020 at 10:52 am

        I'm not sure which term to use. Is it virtue signalling, or identity politics, or just plain stupidity to do it all so publicly.

        • RedLogix 8.2.1.1
          29 August 2020 at 11:02 am

          Now if I want to vote for a pro-environment party it looks like I'm faced with the charming choice between wasting my vote on the sub-5% Greens or the barely over 1% TOP.

          FFS.

    • Peter 8.3
      29 August 2020 at 1:06 pm

      It's logical isn't it.

      The Greens are giving money to a private school, they are the devil incarnate. The world is going to end.

      Simple solution: Vote for Judith Collins to be Prime Minister and Gerry Brownlee the Deputy. She is our saviour, he is or saviour. Everything, (well almost everything) will be wonderful with the world.

  9. weka 9
    29 August 2020 at 10:46 am

    • Stuart Munro 9.1
      29 August 2020 at 7:27 pm

      From further down your link

      Stoats Some on the political left are so well adapted to negotiating tight spaces they actually have whiskers on their tails to help them reverse out of tight burrows.

  10. Macro 10
    29 August 2020 at 11:56 am

    When asked to define what his second-term agenda would be, Trump replied:

    “But so I think, I think it would be, I think it would be very, very, I think we’d have a very, very solid, we would continue what we’re doing, we’d solidify what we’ve done, and we have other things on our plate that we want to get done.”

    Gotta go with that!

  11. swordfish 11
    29 August 2020 at 11:56 am

    .
    Chinese New Zealanders not part of Major Party Support Re-alignment

    A strong majority of Chinese New Zealanders say they still prefer National to Labour, even though they're pretty happy with the government's Covid response.

    .

    Ethnic Chinese voters

    Party-Vote Intention .. 2020 …. 2017

    National ………………. 62% ….. 71.1% ….. Down 9.1 Points

    ACT ………………………. 8.8% …… 2.0% ……. Up 6.8 Points

    Labour …………………. 21% ….. 21.6% ……. Down 0.6 Points

    NZF ……………………… .1.2% …… 2.4% ……. Down 1.2 Points

    Green …………………… 0.8% ….. No Data

    .

    Preferred PM

    Collins ….. 52.2 …… English … 58.5% … Down 6.3

    Ardern …. 26.5 …. Ardern ….. 20.1% ….. Up 6.4

    .

    Satisfied : with the government's response to Covid-19 …. 74.7%

    .

    Support for:

    End of Life Choice Act ….. 83.9%

    Cannabis Legalisation …. 17.7%

    https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/424544/poll-shows-large-majority-of-chinese-new-zealanders-still-favour-national-over-labour

    (found additional info on previous poll from 2017 articles)

    • Anne 11.1
      29 August 2020 at 12:08 pm

      What it indicates is to me is they are playing 'follow our local leader' and have little understanding of how politics works in NZ or what the various parties actually stand for. It will be interesting to see how that changes over the next couple of decades as their off-spring become eligible to vote.

      • Sacha 11.1.1
        29 August 2020 at 12:20 pm

        Simpler: we have predominantly approved only the most wealthy migrants from that part of the world, so they back the party which supports the wealthy. Not the same as the 'support the current govt' thinking some commentators believe must apply. And certainly not ignorance of our political landscape.

    • Grafton Gully 11.2
      29 August 2020 at 6:34 pm

      "End of Life Choice Act ….. 83.9%"

      How the fuck does this mesh with 孝 ?

      "the young are burdened and oppressed by the old;"

      https://china-journal.org/2016/03/14/filial-piety-in-chinese-culture/

  12. AB 12
    29 August 2020 at 12:01 pm

    Forget the Lincoln Project nonsense – the best ad around is from the latest cool old guy, Ed Markey, It's from his Democratic party Senate primary against the Pelosi-endorsed Joe Kennedy III. Effectively Markey is saying, "We should elect Biden, then pressure the crap out of him to do then right thing. You need me to help apply that pressure."

    And speaking of the Lincoln Project ads, here Sam Seder convincingly elaborates on their real purpose. The ads are not aimed at converting Trump Republicans to voting Biden. Instead, they are aimed at persuading the left that Trump is merely an exceptionally atrocious individual – and not a natural outcome of Republicanism, or ideologically consistent with Republicanism. The correct response to the Lincoln Project ads is therefore, "thanks but no thanks."

    • Andre 12.1
      29 August 2020 at 12:07 pm

      The correct response to the Lincoln Project ads is therefore, "thanks but no thanks."

      No. It's really not. The best response is pointing out that CovidCamacho is merely the embodiment of everything the Repugs have been working towards for decades.

      • AB 12.1.1
        29 August 2020 at 2:09 pm

        “is merely the embodiment of everything the Repugs have been working towards”

        Which is pretty much what Seder said in that clip. I think I might hang on to my remaining shreds of sanity and shut up on this topic.

        • McFlock 12.1.1.1
          29 August 2020 at 8:42 pm

          Either way, LP screws the repugs for this election, and it will take years to get rid of the ~adjacents and tinfoil brigade.

          The LP exists because (to paraphrase the oompah loompah) they're out here and the covidians are in there.

          The enemy of my enemy might not be my friend, but if they're not in a position to attack me any time soon I might slip them some assistance.

    • Peter 12.2
      29 August 2020 at 1:00 pm

      Maybe the best thing is for the Lincoln Project ads is therefore, "Thanks but no thanks, we know trump is the best for America and the world."

      • AB 12.2.1
        29 August 2020 at 2:05 pm

        That's a very creative misreading of what I actually wrote and of the content of the links I provided. Oh well, never mind.

        • Peter 12.2.1.1
          29 August 2020 at 2:45 pm

          I appreciate that. Seder is not the only one to try to shed some light. Your reference further back was on the mark when you mentioned 'remaining shreds of sanity.' The whole thing is insane. (America) Even the insane bits have grown side strains of insanity, and so on, and so on …

          The only normal is that nothing is 'normal', anything goes.

  13. PaddyOT 13
    29 August 2020 at 1:30 pm

    Great perspective on refocusing Cinny .@ 7.

    COVID-19 economic response measures.

    Just one part of the total economic response is the " Summary of the Initiatives in the COVID-19 Response and Recovery Fund (CRRF) Foundational Package" that money has already been targeted for. The initiatives funded are extensive, swift and smart directing monies into areas not really given consideration before ( because of Covid19 impacts and a green influence).

    The social well being investment is becoming more balanced imo and has begun to head into newer ways to distribute state spending. Non-profits also get a bite of the economic stimulus pie addressing issues at grassroots and have a future focus on sustainability and equality issues.

    https://treasury.govt.nz/publications/summary-intiatives/summary-initiatives-crrf-budget2020

    Along with the measures of Government response to Covid19 in February 2020 , Treasury have compiled this recent report on all post Budget monetary support across sectors including spending that is on top of the $50 billion CRRF package of which $ 14 billion remains.

    https://treasury.govt.nz/information-and-services/new-zealand-economy/covid-19-economic-response/measures

    National's quickly stitched together- old policy posing as new- is pitiful as their response in the wider context of issues facing people in even the near future.

    The old neoliberalism is implicit in their released Business policy and Freshwater policy. Along with National resurrecting an " people can eat shit pie – social investment" approach to have social ills racially profiled then privatised, the overall picture signals the intent to bring back the abnormal normal.

    Though, I'd be happy to see Judith take her own medicine, the 90 day trial and no lunches enacted on her, that would make her gone by lunchtime early October !

    Or for choices on offer there's ACT spinning their new dogma to sell elitism as "The Final Solution".

    Tim McCready 🇳🇿 (@Tim_McCready) Tweeted:
    Got an unexpected laugh with this line from @HeatherRoyNZ! #nationnz

    https://t.co/C6Q6TBwuuz

    • Sacha 13.1
      29 August 2020 at 1:48 pm

      Paddy, if you paste the full rather than shortened Tweet link here on a line of its own, it shows up automatically like this:

      • Peter 13.1.1
        29 August 2020 at 2:36 pm

        No-one knows what National's going to do beyond transport? What?

        No-one even knows what National's going to with transport. Are their transport plans at their all piss and wind Northland double lane bridges level?

        Maybe I should I contact Judith and ask her if she's better at bridges than Simon!

  14. Sacha 14
    29 August 2020 at 2:19 pm

    An example of a private business working with public sector funding and expertise for environmental outcomes: https://www.stuff.co.nz/environment/122595142/aerial-footage-shows-off-8km-private-ecocorridor-project

  15. PaddyOT 15
    29 August 2020 at 2:23 pm

    Thanks Sacha for that. Still having problems with reply buttons and working through mobile apps permissions , share buttons etc. Samsung did a 253 item update and has downed even logging into online websites.

  16. Muttonbird 16
    29 August 2020 at 2:24 pm

    Should all indoor gatherings outside of work environments be banned until further notice?

    I should not be lost that the spread of the virus is largely due to Church gatherings. Those people need to find an inner God for the next few months.

    • Sacha 16.1
      29 August 2020 at 2:43 pm

      Silent masked gatherings might be OK – it's the singing and animated chats that do the harm.

    • Ad 16.2
      29 August 2020 at 3:02 pm

      We're treating Monday as back to office but at Alert Level 2.5:

      masks at all times in the office.

      Everyone's taken the test.

    • Anne 16.3
      29 August 2020 at 3:22 pm

      I'm reminded of the American woman who attended a mass church rally a few months back. When asked by a reporter if she is concerned about the spread of the virus she said:

      "I'm covered in Jesus' blood so I’m safe.

      Selfish mad cow. Not concerned with anyone else but herself. Hope she caught it.

  17. bwaghorn 17
    29 August 2020 at 2:38 pm

    It must be God's will that covid spreads back through New Zealand

  18. Adrian 18
    29 August 2020 at 2:45 pm

    The Covid Chorus with apologies to Bob…” with God on our side “

  19. PaddyOT 19
    29 August 2020 at 3:22 pm

    At level 2 regional travel will resume for Aucklanders. Apprehensive over the potential mobility of Covid19 across NZ next week given there's 25 new cases in last two days. Are alterations to crowd numbers a risk then in other regions, with risks like the first NZ wedding cluster ?

    • Drowsy M. Kram 19.1
      29 August 2020 at 3:37 pm

      "Apprehensive over the potential mobility of Covid19 across NZ next week…"

      Me too. Only way our Government wins on this is if the planned relaxation of restrictions doesn't result in current Covid ripples becoming waves – in the (IMHO likely) event of increased community transmission they will be castigated for easing up too soon.

      Slow and steady wins the Covid 'race'…

  20. PaddyOT 20
    29 August 2020 at 4:17 pm

    Can already see the headlines DMK created from Judith's screeching parrot, " Aaark they f#ked up again! "

    • Sabine 20.1
      29 August 2020 at 5:21 pm

      when the shoe fits, wear it.

      • Drowsy M. Kram 20.1.1
        29 August 2020 at 6:36 pm

        Barclay, Ross, Bennett, Falloon, Walker, Boag, Woodhouse, Bridge(s), Muller, Collins, Brownlee, Mitchell, Nick Smith, etc. etc., and all right-footers.

        Maybe the secret of political survival in NZ is to have no standards, no shame, and a raison d'être of self-enrichment- the secret of National's success (largest party in parliament no less).

        Many NZers get a kick out of denigrating do-gooders. Where do the Green's get off, advocating for environmental and societal sustainability, when they make hypocritical mistakes like this time and time again – it's unconscionable.

        Time to cut Marama, Shaw and co. down to size (< 5%), eh – definitely achievable.

        https://www.change.org/p/james-shaw-reduce-the-green-school-funding

        8200+ signatures in 1 day – so very sad. We get the Governments we deserve.

        • Incognito 20.1.1.1
          29 August 2020 at 9:58 pm

          Indeed, it is sad when a peaceful Green School in rural Taranaki is portrayed and treated as if it is the epicentre of Mordor and a fortress of evil capitalist parasites profiteering off the public purse.

          • Drowsy M. Kram 20.1.1.1.1
            29 August 2020 at 11:53 pm

            It's remarkable to me that this one mistake could bring the Greens low (I really hope it doesn't) – FFS, tiny wee-brained lefties are now baying for Shaw's blood, and I'm sounding like Dennis Frank. sad

            I can only hope that the standards some are holding the Greens to will be applied impartially to all other parties. This pandemic has many of us rattled and focussed on tomorrow's Covid numbers (cases and alert levels) at a time when Green party policies promoting long term sustainability and resilience are more crucial than ever, IMHO.

            Inequality, precarity and sustainable ecosystems as elements of urban resilience
            https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1177/0042098020904594

            • Incognito 20.1.1.1.1.1
              30 August 2020 at 12:13 am

              Rightly or wrongly, the Greens were on a pedestal, which carries a higher risk of tripping and causing injury. Some quarters [poll pun] have been trying to shoot the pixie princess off Cloud 9 and if/when that happens this Shaw shit show will be like a flea circus and pale in comparison.

              Public resilience is wearing very thin, I agree. Just as well, the Election was postponed by only four weeks.

          • Gabby 20.1.1.1.2
            30 August 2020 at 9:27 am

            Well a shop that gets its premises built for it is at a bit of an advantage.

  21. Sabine 21
    29 August 2020 at 5:20 pm

    Well the owners of the very Green School NZ ™ are sure happy to not have to use any of their private money to build the very Green School NZ.

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/travel/destinations/asia/98140587/green-school-bali-where-there-are-no-walls-no-algebra-classes-and-no-limits

    this is about the saddest indictment of these very rich people i can actually think of. Their kid did not do well in ordinary school NZ so instead of putting their considerable clout and money behind lobbying for better schools for all NZ kids, they went to Bali to study a 'green' school for the very rich kids like theirs. And then they came back and started building 'their own' schools for rich kids like theirs so that they don't have to go to the ordinary underfunded, crowded, leaky, cold, and standard schools of NZ, and our government gave them money for it.

    Pathetic comes to mind, but i am sure that the kids of the Labour Party, NZFirst, the Green Party will be welcome at this school for a fee of course. And in order to pretend that they actually gave a shit about the country and the schools they gonna give a scholarship or three to one of the little poor urchins. How very very charitable of them.

    Seriously i don't want to hear anything anymore about foreign students coming here for a few years of study. If we can open the borders for the kids of this school and their parents, then we can have the borders open of the fee paying kids of other people.

    they could have done so much for the Schools of NZ , and instead its the parents of kids sitting in shitty schools for years on end that is going to finance their private little scheme.

    btw, the owners of this schools are the HRV founders who sold for what i would guess many many millions their business and should thus be able to fund their own project.

    Shame on Labour, NZFIRST and the Greens to allow this project to be funded by the public.

    • SPC 21.1
      29 August 2020 at 5:39 pm

      One little fact check – no one is coming in to the school from overseas – which is why they qualified as a business impacted by the pandemic.

      And a second – this is money from a fund set up on 1 April to fund business projects impacted by the pandemic.

      • Sabine 21.1.1
        29 August 2020 at 5:51 pm

        don't take it up with me, but rather with them

        https://www.nzherald.co.nz/the-country/news/article.cfm?c_id=16&objectid=12309056#:~:text=A%20groundbreaking%20school%20that%20puts,%2440%2C000%20for%20some%20overseas%20students.

        Green School New Zealand has a focus on sustainability, but it doesn't come cheap, with enrolment and tuition fees costing up to $40,000 for some overseas students.

        now we can argue that they can't come here now, but if they get a residence permit the families can come here, be put up in a quarantine hotel for 2 weeks and bingo.

        so yes, is it.

        and i urge you to read the article below from a few years ago as to why the very rich owners of this school created this school in the first place, for their very rich son who was not doing well in NZ public school. And rather then change the schools of NZ for all kids they are now building one with public funds.

        This project should never have been in the fund in the first place. Nothing good will come from it for the government from it. Nothing. What. So . Ever.

        here read it yourself, and then ask yourself if this is what we want to fund.

        https://www.stuff.co.nz/travel/destinations/asia/98140587/green-school-bali-where-there-are-no-walls-no-algebra-classes-and-no-limits

        • SPC 21.1.1.1
          29 August 2020 at 6:14 pm

          They would have little chance of getting a place in the queue for non Kiwis (engineers, skilled workers will have priority), so they are will not be receiving foreigners/foreign students during the pandemic.

          So your earlier foreign students dig was plain wrong.

          And they invested millions setting up the school themselves (its already half built).

          The fund is for business that creates on-going jobs (and in this case foreigners bring some of the revenues in) – economic growth. Which is why it qualified.

          Whether I would have set up a $3B fund for such investment in pandemic impacted businesses when there were plenty of capital spending nned for HB's and schools is another matter.

          The objection about money for the rich, also applies to the Americas Cup funding and subsidising film-making.

          • Sabine 21.1.1.1.1
            29 August 2020 at 7:04 pm

            yes, they build a school for their son, and they should finish it, they have enough money, on which we can rest assured they paid as little in taxes as rich people as these get away with. But hey, money must be made and if we can get free money, even better. Just don't expect us to pay taxes or vote for Labour :).

            And yes, they are actively trying to get rich people from overseas to send their kids there, they have it costed and are just now in a bit of a lurch cause there aren't enough rich people to pay for their'unschooling' green school.

            And this fund does nothing to create jobs, as far as i am aware the only ones currently having work are the builders. At the very best they will be a trickle down – or rather a pissing down – on the locals that gett o be janitor, cook, cleaner, just like the locals in that fancy school in Bali. Who also are too poor to send their kids to this amazing school for primarily white people. 🙂

            Nothing anyone here has said so far is anything else that any National or Act supporter here has said in defense of public money going to private enterprise. In fact all the Green supporters and their Labour allies currently sound like they are auditioning for Act.

            It may have been intended and frankly i would not be surprised to hear again of this school and not in a good way,

            And the very sad thing is that we have to vote for that. Cause its not as bad as Judith. Vote 2020 Labour /NZFirst/Green cause we are not as bad as National/Act.

      • Gabby 21.1.2
        30 August 2020 at 9:29 am

        They will eventually, otherwise there's very little point in building it.

    • weka 21.2
      29 August 2020 at 11:13 pm

      this is about the saddest indictment of these very rich people i can actually think of. Their kid did not do well in ordinary school NZ so instead of putting their considerable clout and money behind lobbying for better schools for all NZ kids, they went to Bali to study a 'green' school for the very rich kids like theirs. And then they came back and started building 'their own' schools for rich kids like theirs so that they don't have to go to the ordinary underfunded, crowded, leaky, cold, and standard schools of NZ, and our government gave them money for it.

      You seem to be conflating things there. There will always be kids that do badly in mainstream schools. Nothing to do with the run down state of buildings thanks to National. It's about the core philosophy of state schools, what they think is important to teach, and how they teach it. The best lobbying in the world is unlikely to change that.

      "Teachers were no longer hung up on his spelling, or whether his stories were shorter than the other kids', or whether he wrote on the lines. They cared about his ideas."

      I have friends whose kids have been like this. Those kids did better in Steiner schools or being homeschooled. Low income households, before you go off on a rant about privilege.

      I'm hoping that down the line schools like the Green School can be accommodated in the system that integrates private schools into the state system and thus influences the state system, or at least gives options for kids who need to be in alt education.

  22. Muttonbird 22
    29 August 2020 at 5:21 pm

    Our place is directly under the Green X23A flightpath into Auckland airport. Just now another Covid capsule quietly sneaked in delivering its masked occupants coughing and spluttering grim death.

    11 community cases today and we are having to open up on Monday. This is an indication the country is going to have to live with it.

    Masks on, people.

    • Sabine 22.1
      29 August 2020 at 5:23 pm

      One of my Akl customers is going home tonight again. this is the second time she rode out lock down here in Rotorua. Ahh, to be wealthy in NZ, rules don't apply. In the meantime the poor sap in a bus with no face covering will get a 300 NZD fine.

  23. SPC 23
    29 August 2020 at 5:37 pm

    First WHO warns that children can spread, yet there is no requirement to use masks in schools next week in Auckland.

    World evidence that children do spread the virus has led WHO to recommend the use of masks in schools for children.

    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/lifestyle/news/article.cfm?c_id=6&objectid=12360273

    Now this turns up – children can retain the virus (in the nose) for three weeks and so we have a perfect storm. Outbreaks through schools and into homes and then workplaces and then out of Auckland.

    That would require an end to our elimination policy (permanent social distancing and masks in schools until there is a vaccine), or a resumed lockdown nationwide and delay of the election to November.

    Given the likely cause, government policy on mask wearing will be cited and they will be blamed.

    Children can carry coronavirus in their noses for up to three weeks, according to a study from South Korea.

    Dr DeBiasi believes that while the "vast majority of infected children have mild or unrecognised disease," they may play an "important" role in enabling the spread of infection through communities.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/health-53946420.

    The information about the three week carry duration should give the government pause about schools being open next week – or at least require mask use and social distancing.

    • Sabine 23.1
      29 August 2020 at 5:56 pm

      One thing that i have observed here is people are using the app before coming in, they wait outside for the customers in the shop to leave first and quite a few wear masks. So at least here in Vegas people are trying to keep their community safe.

      But i do expect the virus to travel from Sunday midnight on. No easy solutions here.

  24. Robert Guyton 24
    29 August 2020 at 6:22 pm

    Jamie-Lee Ross explains his reasons for marching in Auckland:

    ""This is not the country I grew up in, where [the] military are on checkpoints in and out of Auckland.”"

    Might not have been a pandemic back then, Mr Ross!

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/coronavirus/300094774/coronavirus-police-disappointed-but-no-punishment-for-500-protesters-breaching-lockdown

    • greywarshark 24.1
      29 August 2020 at 8:14 pm

      I thought that JLR took time out for quiet reflection. He must have spent the time looking in a mirror as he doesn't seem wiser after that remark about using the military. Actually JLR it is good that the forces can do some peacetime support work for their own country, they will feel good being able to help their own when needed.

    • Peter 24.2
      29 August 2020 at 8:48 pm

      Funny how soldiers stand to attention then march. Ross is marching to get attention.

  25. PaddyOT 25
    29 August 2020 at 7:58 pm

    And then who takes responsibility for the spread, the individual who overides risks to others and wants to leave Auckland for a wedding , or the Government?

    Or the same evangelical group who have now admitted to carrying on hallelujah sessions together in secret?

    • Patricia 2 25.1
      30 August 2020 at 11:49 am

      And that's why all the residents of West and South Auckland have been advised to line up for a COVID test. If we all went to a testing site right now there would be insufficient testers / swabs etc. We are talking big numbers.

  26. joe90 26
    29 August 2020 at 8:08 pm

    Respect.

  27. Patricia 2 27
    30 August 2020 at 11:50 am

    And that's why all the residents of West and South Auckland have been advised to line up for a COVID test. If we all presented at a testing site right now there would be insufficient testers / swabs etc. We are talking big numbers.

  28. Eco Maori 28
    31 August 2020 at 2:48 pm

    The spy sandflys could not touch Eco Maori so they setup my Tamariki an set the courts onto them the under underbelly Of New Zealand's is full of rotting people. They don't like Eco Maori showing the World their true colours hence the VENDETTA.

    https://youtu.be/KSN7Nz4ECQM

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