Open mike 29/10/2019

102 comments on “Open mike 29/10/2019 ”

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1. Sanctuary 1

   29 October 2019 at 7:33 am

   Someone should tell the corporate media a good 50% of the country hardly even noticed the rugby world cup and of the rest most were over it on Sunday afternoon.

   The way our corporate media have managed to suck any joy out of the RWC with their incessant clickbait stories that are a weird combination of braggadocio and insecurity has been amazing. And still, thtree days later, Susie Ferguson insults the intelligence of her listeners (again) by a) making her first question to Jacinda about the rugby then going for a gotcha. Seriously, there is more important things than trying to foot trip the PM over a three day old rugby match.
   • I feel love 1.1

     29 October 2019 at 7:48 am

     Ain't that the truth, I haven't heard one work mate discuss the world cup these last few months, I don't think anyone even knew it was on, I watched one game as I was staying in a motel and they had terrestrial telly, I would have watched more if it was accessible, the greedy bastards are killing the interest in the game in the name of short term profit.
     • Jimmy 1.1.1

       29 October 2019 at 9:01 am

       Wow ….where do you work? The morgue? We have had plenty of talk at work about it over the last few weeks although its a lot quieter now!
       • greywarshark 1.1.1.1

         29 October 2019 at 9:36 am

         Jimmy This is a place of relatively free expression of what is happening personally to you. Because someone expresses something different to what you feel or have experienced shouldn't be an opportunity for you to sneer at them and ask them if they work in a morgue.

         You could have left those first two questioning sentences out. Why be combative and negative about other how other people's random comment about something. Like I am at present! But with a desire to get better interaction amongst us.
         • Anne 1.1.1.1.1

           29 October 2019 at 9:53 am

           Excuse me greywarshark but I don't think Jimmy was being anything of the sort. His comment was a very Kiwi way of expressing his surprise with a smattering of humour thrown in.

           Each to his own. It's not your place to tell others how to express themselves here – or anywhere else.
           • marty mars 1.1.1.1.1.1

             29 October 2019 at 10:02 am

             Agree – a pretty standard, funny and slightly pointed kiwi saying. I can't sense malice in that.
           • aom 1.1.1.1.1.2

             29 October 2019 at 11:11 am

             greywarshark should be warned to stay away from Taika Waititi's JoJo Rabbit. The kiwi comedy in that (kiwiism warning!) would blow his tiny little mind, especially as it is tempered with very serious themes and moral issues.
             • greywarshark …

               29 October 2019 at 1:20 pm

               aom You don't understand much of what you see and read if you think I don't deeply concern myself with 'very serious themes and moral issues'. You are just a learner compared to where i come from. So soak up all you can and you might get wise.
           • greywarshark 1.1.1.1.1.3

             29 October 2019 at 1:23 pm

             It's not your place to come here and tell me not to express myself about what I think is important Anne. It is what you do yourself all the time, coming from a feeling of entitlement I think. And it goes against the Open Mike zeitgeist. So don't preach to me in your didactic way.

             Do you ever stop and look and listen to yourself. ‘It is not your place’ you say to me. Is that classless speech? Are you really interested in democracy but rather talking down to others who haven’t reached your height of seniority in your profession?
           • veutoviper 1.1.1.1.1.4

             29 October 2019 at 3:01 pm

             Anne, consider your hand smacked by the TS's own Clayton's moderator- LOL.

             But life has its comedy moments – and TS has its comedy juxtapositions of comments at times. Today's is a classic – G's reply to you has landed immediately under G's reply to aom. Read together (particularly the last two sentences in the reply to aom) they are laughable. Talk about lacking in self-awareness, and not looking and listening to one's self.

             Enjoy! kia kaha
             • Anne …

               29 October 2019 at 3:46 pm

               
               • Anne …

                 29 October 2019 at 6:48 pm

                 Hi veutoviper,

                 I was earlier unable to respond with anything other than an emoticon.

                 Thanks for the words of encouragement.

                 I think Greywarshark needs to learn to treat other people's comments with more care and attention. He/she seems occasionally vulnerable to misinterpretations. Perhaps a bit of a furlough and some internal reflection would be advisable before he/she starts laying down the law to other people who might wish to comment here.
         • Jimmy 1.1.1.1.2

           29 October 2019 at 11:05 am

           Hi Greywarshark…apologies then as I was not meaning to offend anyone. Love the rugby, or hate the rugby, it is the most important thing to so many kiwis. I am not a huge fan myself but will follow the world cup. (and even the soccer world cup when its on).

           I was simply amazed that people were not talking about it in some way at I feel the love's work place. For anyone that does work in a morgue, I did not mean to be nasty or put them down as they do an extremely important job that many people would probably not do.
           • In Vino 1.1.1.1.2.1

             29 October 2019 at 11:57 am

             Agree… It is one of our few growth industries.
           • greywarshark 1.1.1.1.2.2

             29 October 2019 at 12:55 pm

             Hi Jimmy – It was just a thought – we in NZ are too inclined to negativity I think. Also some people find rugby a bit of a faux way to come together in NZ. And find the brutal approach which shows up in spear tackling and the love of big men crashing into each other a bit pathetic as an example of the finest and most charismatic sport here.

             Lately I looked at the local film called Bludgeon, and I reckon that would be a great sport for physical guys, and it involves armour that a man or woman could make themselves and use metal-working skills, so a steep learning curve and giving more individual satisfaction than rugby.

             Fair bit of crash and bash there. But there is a code of conduct. But still some risk – I think blokes like taking on risk with judgment of how to avoid it. What did you think of Bludgeon? It's different, could be good. Might be an alternative to rugby, so we have more than one claim to fame eh?

             We need to get more positive in NZ and talk to each other in a way that promotes that, and that aids conversation and helps in getting to know that person and what's good about them. That is something I think we need to work on in NZ – my opinion. So I throw in Bludgeon as an extra talking point to rugby.

             Thinking about negativity. NZrs are said to be a bit dour, and our creative output can follow that. But perhaps we get insight through it in a way, but then have watch not to set in negative mode. Scandinavia is a place that has to do this also I hear – they can suffer from SAD.*

             *Seasonal affective disorder (SAD) is a type of depression that's related to changes in seasons — SAD begins and ends at about the same times every year. If you're like most people with SAD, your symptoms start in the fall and continue into the winter months, sapping your energy and making you feel moody.Oct 25, 2017

             https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/seasonal-affective-disorder/symptoms-causes/syc-20364651
       • I feel love 1.1.1.2

         29 October 2019 at 2:57 pm

         Ha! My workplace ranges in ages from early 20s to mid 60s, a few 100 people, all walks of life in Dunedin, men and women, and I haven't heard one mention or RWC or the ABs losing, what can I say but that is what I see. We have pools for Melbourne cup and other major sports but no one did one for the rugby. I've no doubt there are fans because people do play and I recall talk of a shield game, but seriously, it's a game being killed by its expense. I don't mind the game, but I don't mind any sport, I just don't favour any and have better things to spend my money on. Just my view.
       • lprent 1.1.1.3

         30 October 2019 at 1:30 am

         There were a pile of flags at work in the last few weeks. Mostly because the plants were removed before we move. A few mad keen rugby nuts talking about something that I hadn't seen.

         Some dribble in the papers that looked like more mindless advertising.

         Personally I just ignored it. Have better things to waste time on.

         I pretty much give up on sports activities when I finish doing them. These days physical activity is mainly restricted to the daily commuting to work on a e-bike and the weekend chores on it. Limited supply of enthusiasts for that as well as the rugby
   • Bearded Git 1.2

     29 October 2019 at 8:56 am

     I'd guess it really matters to 30% of the population….but only for a couple of weeks.

     I mean come on, it's a game based on the random bounce of an odd-shaped ball.
     • greywarshark 1.2.1

       29 October 2019 at 9:38 am

       ' a game based on the random bounce of an odd-shaped ball. ' Sounds like an analogy for life really, as in the start when our eggie got fertilised.
       • Bearded Git 1.2.1.1

         29 October 2019 at 10:10 am

         
     • Stuart Munro. 1.2.2

       29 October 2019 at 2:10 pm

       It's less important as a game, as having once been a major community binding activity. Having fallen under the dual pressures of urbanization and professionalization, rugby is no longer a uniting communal obsession. Like the churches, its congregation are aging and diminishing.
2. OnceWasTim 2

   29 October 2019 at 10:00 am

   https://www.bbc.com/news/av/world-asia-50134723/singapore-the-artist-cutting-off-the-head-of-a-british-colonialist

   Interesting perspective and quite relevant. A resurgence in anti-colonial sentiment (not that I want to stir the hornet's nest) – No Siree! Quite a few quite capable of stirring up shit, acting like missionaries and imposing their will all by themselves.
3. Sanctuary 3

   29 October 2019 at 10:03 am

   I know rugby is regarded by some here primarily through the lens of a fanatical culture war item, but I don't really care for the tiresome whining of the anti-rugby brigade so if you are not interested in discussing it – in the nicest possible way just don't comment and f**k off to anther topic. 🙂

   So onto rugby.

   If I were the NZRFU I would be alarmed at the general indifference the public has shown to the All Black's defeat. We are not "more mature' – it is just a huge number of people no longer give a shit. General interest in the game peaked twenty years and has been in decline ever since. Rugby is of no interest to an increasingly large percentage of the population. Kids nowadays have been alienated by an elite school system that actively discourages participation for fun as a burden on their winning. The game has been behind a paywall for a generation that has seen it's support base becoming increasing elderly, white and middle class. The focus on the apex means club and now provincial rugby has been gutted. The NPC is a now a complete farce – does anyone seriously believe Tasman has the best pool of provincial players in NZ?

   The general public is chronically over exposed to rugby from February to December and is IMHO sick to death of saturation uncritical coverage in the corporate media. Outside a few pockets no one is interested in provincial rugby, there is to much super rugby and too many All Blacks tests. The NPC was once the engine of the game – home of tribalism, huge unwavering support and where the interest in the game was actually highest. Now? I don't think so, especially in Auckland where the complacency and disinterest of the NZRFU at the decline of rugby should be a huge sports media scandal.

   Steve Tew will leave a game utterly hollowed out by professionalism. His whole era was characterised by increasingly desperate efforts to slow – but never halt – the decline of NZ's rugby power in the face of the huge wads of money being laundered through sports clubs in the Europe. In order to buy another season of All Black success, the NZRFU has destroyed the game below the elite level and now- in the light of the hiding the All Blacks just got – those chickens are coming home to roost at elite level as well. The NZRFU has never really had a plan to sustain rugby in NZ for a generation, and our well resourced sports media are not about to call them out on it.

   The problem is the NZ media are basically PR for rugby, so the general public gets no sensible debate about the direction of the game, the dropping interest, it's massive over-exposure or the issues of player loss. No one wants to talk about how player loss has gutted the quality of the rugby championship and weakened the All Blacks depth. Once Ben Smith suddenly became over the hill and Reiko Ioane apparently lost interest in playing for the All Blacks after Hanson publically dissed his brother our lack of depth was exposed at first five and wing (why is no one asking Hanson about the reasons for Reiko's loss of form?) What difference would having Charles Piutau, Lima Sopoaga, Steven Luatua, Nehe Milner-Skudder, Liam Squire, Luke Whitelock and Jackson Hemopo made had they been available? Especially as they play in positions where we were totally found out like lose forward, lock, and wing. They won't, because it would be to imply all is not well in the three rings and the media are part of the circus.
   • Bearded Git 3.1

     29 October 2019 at 10:14 am

     Sanc…I should point out that, despite my comment above, I was glued to both RWC semi-finals for the whole game in the Hawea Pub….I think rugby is a wonderful game….just not quite in the league of climate change or Brexit for its implications.
     • Sanctuary 3.1.1

       29 October 2019 at 10:19 am

       Yeah, I love rugby as well. To the point I actually believe being good at it should possibly attract a government subsidy to keep th best players here. Take the money from defense, I'd rather see nationalism at Eden Park than cheering a parade of tanks.
       • tc 3.1.1.1

         29 October 2019 at 10:46 am

         Why do the best players need to stay here ? Our lack of depth IMO is because we have this boys club approach to only local players getting an AB gig, Via the super 15/16 whatever it is now which is a created, invite only league.

         Brazil/Argentina haven't won their world cups in football with 'local' players exclusively. There's a world out there we should welcome our players going OS to. Geez the current world champs don't give their centre forward a game because he's not making the field at Chelsea, that's a position we should be in !

         Our local game would probably flourish if more got a chance via the big names following the $$$ offshore. It's pure market forces etc a.k.a. professionalism, something the NZRU have mostly sucked at since day 1./
         • Sanctuary 3.1.1.1.1

           29 October 2019 at 11:15 am

           The decision was made years ago to focus on the All Black's brand and the creation of an elite player program to feed a steady stream of new All Blacks into the squad. Everything else was sacrificed – mass participation, club rugby, the NPC and now even Super Rugby – to that end. But No one is asking if that model is fundamentally flawed. The parade of clueless doofus mercenaries being churned out from our elite school system and academies is testament to the flaws in the current model, as is the decline interest and participation. These new generation elite players have had the red carpet rolled out for them since they hit about 14 years old, and are only used to winning and have a huge sense of entitlement to a fat professional salary. They are starting to bugger off once they realise that the All Blacks is a bit harder than they thought and they can get just as much dosh for half the effort playing in France. Being an All Black for an increasing number of these elite players is now a bit like making porno movies for a few years is for a whore – a sort of video CV for the better paying whales and sugar daddies.

           An alternative does/did exist – get government funding for the cultural component of the game and emphasise mass participation, club and NPC level and a cut down professional competition including Australia. Accept the inevitable of overseas money luring away our best players (akin to Brazilians and Argentinians accepting their best players are all in Europe) and just work out a strategy to get them back in time to ensure we remain rugby world champions.

           That way, when the current era of massively overpaid professional sport eventually eats itself (as it is showing signs of doing with the falling interest from people who can longer afford to watch, the obsolescence of the paywall TV model to fund it all and the increasing demand for low carbon – i.e. no flying everywhere – sport) at least you'll still have a game left to administer.
         • The Al1en 3.1.1.1.2

           29 October 2019 at 12:59 pm

           It won't happen, because unlike football, all the TV money goes to the union instead of the clubs, but the centralised contracts should go and players become free agents, able to move between teams across borders and still be available for national selection.

           That would mean clear windows for international tests, just like soccer, which could if done right, also be of benefit to tier two nations and a way of growing the sport globally.
           • In Vino 3.1.1.1.2.1

             29 October 2019 at 4:52 pm

             +1, Sanctuary.

             The same malaise has afflicted many of our sports, with the same depletion of overall participation, and the death of many of what used to be healthy local clubs.
           • Dukeofurl 3.1.1.1.2.2

             30 October 2019 at 8:30 am

             In practice overseas clubs do affect a players availability for selection for a national side elsewhere, especially as clubs and national games overlap.

             Would English clubs try to restrict NZ players being selected for the All Blacks ? You bet
             • The Al1en …

               30 October 2019 at 9:28 am

               I don't recall any club v country rows in English football for quite some time, with South American, African and Asian players turning out for their nations, even when tournaments are held during the season. Son Heung min from Spurs played in the Asian cup this year, for example, though the African cup of nations has now switched to the European off season recently.

               The key is obviously well organised international windows for cups, qualification purposes and friendlies. Like I said above, it won't happen under the current system but it could with the necessary changes.
       • lprent 3.1.1.2

         30 October 2019 at 1:34 am

         Don't think that we have any tanks.
         • Dukeofurl 3.1.1.2.1

           30 October 2019 at 8:42 am

           Arent the LAV a sort of modern version as they have a cannon , especially against demonstrators in cities which cant put up much resistance.
           • Alice Tectonite 3.1.1.2.1.1

             30 October 2019 at 9:17 am

             NZ LAV = APC replacement
             • Dukeofurl …

               30 October 2019 at 9:26 am

               Did the APC have a turret mounted cannon like the LAVs do?
               • Alice Tectonite …

                 30 October 2019 at 1:12 pm

                 Off the top of my head the NZ APCs had .50 cal only.

                 Technically the NZ LAVs are infantry fighting vehicles (= APC with cannon stuck on top). Basically a more heavily armed infantry taxi.
4. joe90 4

   29 October 2019 at 11:05 am

   I'd rather be dead in a ditch than agree to a Brexit delay.… okay, just this once..

   https://twitter.com/AP/status/1188876292457934851
   • greywarshark 4.1

     29 October 2019 at 11:49 am

     Boorish needs to remember that he is supposed to be following the will of the people, and not just his own – that is dictatorship. And for those who are going to trot out the bit about the referendum 'indicating the will of the people', I laugh at you. How can people make up their minds for some action based on unfair information, lies to deceive?? What gimcrack idea of democracy are you fostering? What sort of person are you who quotes prim verse out of a text which does not include the principle of straight and honest dealing?

     To have a matter put before the people which will overturn or affect all of a country's policies is a major undertaking for them to consider carefully. To treat it as if they were voting to have a new library that would only stock records of UK writing and thinking, is an attempt at deception by a very devious, even criminally fraudulent group of politicians. And then to suggest that a mere simple majority is sufficient for such a proposal, and then set out to confuse the trusting or ignorant populace, is irredeemably malicious.

     To call for a change within Parliament of an election date different from the normal, a snap election*, requires 66% or two-thirds of the House of the representatives of the people to make a rearrangement of that grouping who are mere servants of the people. Yet just a simple majority for a matter affecting and at the heart of all the people and country, that they are supposed to be serving!

     This shows a wish to take power over the people and indeed the country. It is in effect, a coup planned by the unscrupulous, and those Members in the part of Parliament who stand for the people are putting up a desperate battle, using all the law and precedents that they can. These have been introduced to give the country a strong and reliable Parliament without a resort to violence to debase Parliament and then enable the winners to take control the country. (And there have already been murders in the political sphere, these should not be overlooked, as preliminary skirmishes.)

     *https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snap_election#United_Kingdom

     PS joe90 – I wonder how the photographers got a shot of Boorish in front of a poster about Sepsis and Infection? Or is this an example of photo-shopping – part of the playing around with images, leading to serious falsifying that the simple minds of we ordinary people have to examine carefully to form an opinion. No longer ‘seeing is believing’.
     • soddenleaf 4.1.1

       29 October 2019 at 11:58 am

       It's a scam. Someone pulls a empty cheque out writes brexit on it, then says sign here. Nobody is signing that without details put in. Blank cheque politics goes against every grain. Parliament is never going to ratify the deal, it would put their name on it, and for whatever reason… …Tory voters who want to stay in, or Labour voters who want to end austerity, or Libs who have said no. The only way to move on is to put the deal to the electorate in a referendum. Boris is an unelected leader of a minority party that demands the scam be accepted. Put up or shut up, put the deal to the people in a referendum, let them sign the cheque. Oh, and that means expat too.
       • Dukeofurl 4.1.1.1

         30 October 2019 at 8:35 am

         Parliament has ratified the deal. They did so last week ,as per the procedure with the agreement to be tabled so that it becomes a public document

         . It well known that the deal in this context is the full agreement between UK and EU negotiators.

         Additional legislation and regulations follow too cover the fine details of the law over various aspects of Brexit : Agriculture , Fisheries, Financial Services, Immigration and so on.
     • Drowsy M. Kram 4.1.2

       29 October 2019 at 12:04 pm

       PM Johnson is desperate for another general election (after 2 years and 4 months), but reluctant to rerun the Brexit referendum (after 3 years and 4 months.)

       Why not rerun both at the same time, if only to clarify the 'mood' of a better-informed U.K. electorate? I see one parallel in the NZ National-led government claiming that their election win was a mandate for the massive transfer of public assets/wealth into private ownership, despite opinion polls at the time showing a clear majority of those polled were opposed.

       Brexit will consolidate the already vast power and influence of U.K./multinational wealth. "All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others."

       "Pigs rank at the top-most level in the structure, dogs coming next, and then other animals rank accordingly. Pigs are the rulers and the masters. That means they can rewrite or reinterpret commandments to ensure their benefit, and control over other animals."
       https://literarydevices.net/all-animals-are-equal/
       • Dukeofurl 4.1.2.1

         30 October 2019 at 8:49 am

         Dont think any party in UK wants that.

         I think you are confused about what Brexit will do . Its the EU that was consolidating power , especailly with the Euro ( which Britain almost by accident was able to avoid)

         Ask the people of Greece , Spain Italy etc about EU austerity.

         The people of Greece even voted by a large majority against the EUs austerity deal, but as is Normal with the EU bureaucrats and financial mandarins they forced the Greek government to take even harsher medicine.

         Like I said you seem to have 'forgotten' how much the EU is despised for its economic policies , not only in Britain.
         • Drowsy M. Kram 4.1.2.1.1

           30 October 2019 at 11:17 am

           Duke, I though it was more about bananas than mandarins – don't have a dog in this contest of ideas, but none of my 'elitist' academic colleagues are particularly thrilled about the possible net effect of Brexit on UK university research and teaching programmes.

           Your suggestion to "Ask the people of Greece , Spain Italy etc about EU austerity" is a good one – asking electorates about where they stand on important issues, by way of (binding) referenda, is a great idea IMHO.

           In the UK, national referenda are not constitutionally binding, and since the UK has held only three national referenda [in 1975 (UK remaining in the EEC [Labour]), 2011 (voting system [Tory]), and 2016 (Brexit [Tory])], I can understand the reluctance for a fourth, particularly given the unsettling mess that the third delivered.

           However, since there appears to be some uncertainty as to whether a simple majority of UK voters currently support Brexit (3 years and four months on), I just wondered if another general election (2 years and 4 months on) might be the perfect opportunity to test the current mood of the electorate on Brexit. After all, it’s an issue which some at least consider to have quite far-reaching consequences, more so even than cannabis which the NZ electorate will be voting on next year.
     • Nic the NZer 4.1.3

       29 October 2019 at 4:20 pm

       I watched an interesting presentation by Tom Scott at the Royal Society called there is no Algorithm for Truth. He starts off with a challenge, what if a supposed algorithm for internet truth decides (correctly) that a no deal brexit is the best for the UK. The question being (to the audience) do you therefore accept this, or respond by trying to amplify your position? I think you should conduct the same thought experiment based on the fact that at least 40 something percent of the UK disagree with your position.
       • greywarshark 4.1.3.1

         29 October 2019 at 4:24 pm

         I didn't realise that 40% of UK were watching me for a lead. That is a serious responsibility and i will bear it in mind Nic the NZer. Are you Nic the ex Pom?
         • Nic the NZer 4.1.3.1.1

           29 October 2019 at 4:43 pm

           No. Neither if us has a particular right to speak for the UK in general I would say.
       • Dukeofurl 4.1.3.2

         30 October 2019 at 8:59 am

         There is an algorithm for Truth

         Its called Theology. Thats why it the idea, if used in politics is totally unworkable.
   • joe90 4.2

     29 October 2019 at 2:45 pm

     Jezza puts the needle in.

     https://twitter.com/Doozy_45/status/1188872295051345920?
     • Nic the NZer 4.2.1

       29 October 2019 at 3:21 pm

       Good on Corbyn for getting his lines in when they are on offer. I think its quite weak rhetoric though as parliament forced Boris to do it. Would they rather he refused to ask for an extension over parliaments will here?
       • greywarshark 4.2.1.1

         29 October 2019 at 4:19 pm

         It is a fluid matter of possibilities and probabilities and who will vote for who in the UK. Knowing what the situation is in detail, would help to understand why certain things are/not being done.

         This is an interesting piece on Johnson from aljazeera.

         https://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/features/boris-johnson-britain-prime-minister-190722183952925.html?utm_source=website&utm_medium=article_page&utm_campaign=read_more_links
   • Dukeofurl 4.3

     30 October 2019 at 8:39 am

     The letter was unsigned and was the exact text in the Benn Act about asking for an extension.

     Cover letters made it clear Johnson wasnt 'asking for it' at all. Parliament made him do it.
5. The Al1en 5

   29 October 2019 at 12:41 pm

   When you've previously agreed to do a favour for your boss and work the occasional cash in hand extra, at their suggestion, only to be told a couple of days after doing the last one it's now on the books.

   Wont be doing that again.
   • Ian 5.1

     29 October 2019 at 7:00 pm

     Good on you mate.But you and your boss were equally responsible for tax evasion.Your not alone unfortunately.Ripping off genuine taxpayers seems to be a national sport.
     • The Al1en 5.1.1

       29 October 2019 at 7:15 pm

       It was only a few hours work, so not really about the money, more the being lied to.

       And while I get the point about tax evasion, and certainly not mitigating it after the fact, unemployed people can earn up to $90pw without affecting entitlements, and with my hourly rate, it wasn't even near that much.
       • solkta 5.1.1.1

         29 October 2019 at 8:11 pm

         unemployed people can earn up to $90pw without affecting entitlements,

         What that fuck has that got to do with it? They are supposed to pay tax too.
         • McFlock 5.1.1.1.1

           29 October 2019 at 9:00 pm

           ISTR back in the day that there was some threshold ($200?) of undeclared income that IRD didn't give a damn about.

           A few hours work isn't the problem. "Family trusts" and corporate tax sandwiches are the problem.
           • Incognito 5.1.1.1.1.1

             29 October 2019 at 9:19 pm

             You could well be right that IRD don’t “give a damn”.

             https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/116799972/revenue-minister-stuart-nash-queries-ird-over-staff-engagement-rate-of-29
           • The Al1en 5.1.1.1.1.2

             29 October 2019 at 9:40 pm

             Well it doesn't matter now as I've paid the tax on the $60 I earned, including extra towards my student loan payment. It's okay, the country can afford light rail in Auckland after all.

             No telling what we can achieve as soon as we stop off the books cash payments to babysitters.

             https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/100078541/cash-payments-will-always-leave-a-trail-inland-revenue-says
             “A cash job is any payment on which tax is not paid. That might be the $40 you leave out for your house cleaner, $50 for a babysitter or $1000 for a plumber fixing your shower.”
             • Incognito …

               29 October 2019 at 10:27 pm

               As long as they don’t tax paper boys 😉
               • marty mars …

                 29 October 2019 at 10:30 pm

                 paper boys have gone extinct I think
                 • Incognito …

                   29 October 2019 at 10:37 pm

                   Right, and the good old posties are next. No wonder they want to do away with paper voting. Mailboxes are only good for junkmail nowadays.
             • McFlock …

               29 October 2019 at 11:02 pm

               If I leave $40 for a cleaner or gardener, I don't care if they do their paperwork properly.

               When the multinational sharks start paying tax on their hundreds of millions of income before expenditure, then we can sweep up a few minnows who failed to declare a little bit of income here and there.
             • weka …

               29 October 2019 at 11:37 pm

               IRD will go after non-monetary earnings too. If you trade hours of your normal paid work for someone else's hours (or some veggies), your hours are taxable.
         • greywarshark 5.1.1.1.2

           29 October 2019 at 10:38 pm

           TA is talking about working for not much money, to put in other words he sounds poor, and that's what the fuck he is concerned about, and to improve that situation even slightly.
           • solkta 5.1.1.1.2.1

             29 October 2019 at 10:53 pm

             Still has absolutely nothing to do with benefit abatement rates.
             • marty mars …

               29 October 2019 at 10:55 pm

               exactly – an unrelated issue not connected other than the unemployed often get dragged into non-related points.
             • The Al1en …

               29 October 2019 at 11:29 pm

               Not quite true, as some households on benefits bring in more than mine, yet they're still permitted to earn $90 pw on top, a third more than I was in line for, but as I implied, it's not a contest, and I certainly don't begrudge them that extra.
               • solkta …

                 30 October 2019 at 1:31 am

                 yet they're still permitted to earn $90 pw on top

                 They still pay tax on it. I don't see the point you are trying to make. It seems as marty says, that the unemployed often get dragged into non-related points. That it is somehow ok for you to cheat on tax because unemployed people.
                 • The Al1en …

                   30 October 2019 at 4:32 pm

                   Okay, I was under the impression that someone not working and then earning such a small amount wouldn't pay any tax, but I checked it out and found I was wrong.
           • The Al1en 5.1.1.1.2.2

             29 October 2019 at 11:27 pm

             I am poor, but relatively speaking, I'm not really.
6. Blazer 6

   29 October 2019 at 12:48 pm

   'Why not rerun both at the same time,'…splendid suggestion =the 'best out of 3' ..option!
   • Drowsy M. Kram 6.1

     29 October 2019 at 8:19 pm

     'Fun' result would be the election of a Boris "Let's get Brexit done" Johnson-led Tory govt combined with a narrow majority for ‘remain’ in a Brexit referendum rerun.
7. soddenleaf 7

   29 October 2019 at 12:56 pm

   Rise of the right connected directly to 2008 financial collapse, when the wealthiest aren't jailed for their crimes, they will play. Brexit, Trump, used to be you can't take the money with you when you die, now it's what can you destroy with your money before you die. The planet, markets, economies, democracy, its a fire sale.
8. joe90 8

   29 October 2019 at 1:32 pm

   How Facebook coddles and promotes RWNJ's and their freeze peach above all others.

   https://twitter.com/JuddLegum/status/1188797290527498240

   2 A investigation found a clandestine network of 14 large Facebook pages that exclusively promote content from The Daily Wire

   They promote same content, at the same time, w/the same text

   Collectively they have 8 million+ fans

   3. Facebook's rules explicitly prohibit "coordinated inauthentic behavior" which it defines as "groups of accounts and Pages working together to mislead people about who they are and what they’re doing."

   That's exactly what's happening here

   4. Facebook says when it finds "coordinated inauthentic behavior" it will "remove all inauthentic and authentic accounts, Pages and groups directly involved"

   Facebook admitted that these pages are acting deceptively, but it will not take them down

   […]

   8. It's hard to overstate how good The Daily Wire is at gaming Facebook. While a average NYT article received 1871 engagements in September, the average The Daily Wire article received 15283 engagements

   https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1188797290527498240.html

   https://popular.info/p/facebook-allows-prominent-right-wing
9. joe90 9

   29 October 2019 at 2:12 pm

   Argentinian buoyed by the election of a centre-left candidate.

   At any rate, I “lived” the 2015 election with my heart in my throat, particularly after Mauricio Macri was elected over the Peronist formula, effectively putting an end to Cristina Fernández de Kirchner and all the good things she’d been doing (and some of the bad because, let’s be honest, there’s always going to be something bad/questionable).

   […]

   Today I woke up to find out that not only did Argentina kicked Macri out unceremoniously, but former president CFK is now Vice President to Alberto Fernández

   https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2019/10/28/1895561/-My-hopes-shot-up-this-morning
10. ianmac 10

    29 October 2019 at 4:13 pm

    Today farming leaders and the Government announced a plan to join forces to develop practical and cost-effective ways to measure and price emissions at the farm level by 2025, so that 100 per cent of New Zealand's emissions will be on the path downwards. – Scoop

    The cynic in me says the Agriculture lobby expects to hang on for just 2-3 years so that when National gets in they will drop the Plan.

    http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/PA1910/S00190/world-first-plan-for-farmers-to-reduce-emissions.htm
    • greywarshark 10.1

      29 October 2019 at 4:21 pm

      World first – I hate that term now. We were the world's first to drop our drawers and go freest market. Prostitutes are more practical.
11. greywarshark 11

    29 October 2019 at 4:42 pm

    I think we are being overwhelmed by freedom campers and should put limits on visitors – some places insist on sighting return tickets with dates that comply with visas, permits. Then visitors need to show they have enough money to sustain themselves for their holiday so they don't go round stealing, bludging and ripping the country off. We have NZ men who are enough trouble without adding more.

    https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/te-manu-korihi/402025/arrogant-and-disrespectful-freedom-campers-sadden-ngai-tuhoe

    New Zealand Te Ao Māori

    'Arrogant and disrespectful' freedom campers sadden Ngāi Tūhoe 3:19 pm today

    Rubbish-strewn campsites, home-made toilets and illegal felling of native trees by "arrogant and disrespectful" freedom campers at Lake Waikaremoana have shocked and saddened Ngāi Tūhoe.
    • Cinny 11.1

      29 October 2019 at 5:07 pm

      Crikey! WTF with cutting down trees, that should never ever happen, what pricks for doing so.

      Imagine a dedicated freedom camping task force in every region. They could police the freedom campers and share stories about their local area. If people felt a sense of importance about the land they are occupying maybe they would be better behaved.

      Would also like to see recycling and rubbish facilities at designated spots as well as toilets. The way I see it, freedom camping isn't going away any time soon, so we may as well mange it instead.
      • greywarshark 11.1.1

        29 October 2019 at 6:15 pm

        Agree – manage it on location and limit it at the borders. It is not a big income earner, and we can do without these wandering would-be wilderness pretenders. Run the system of woofers as the main intake of long-term visitors, they would have jobs to go to with members who are registered. Lovely people, and a terrific asset to the country, forming friendships and helping out in a valuable way. They would have to be looked after to make sure that local ab-users of the system didn't take advantage, and vice versa.
    • Sacha 11.2

      29 October 2019 at 8:26 pm

      I would not be surprised if the 'campers' are munters from NZ rather than further afield. The hunters mentioned in the story certainly are. Who brings their own toilet seat with them on holiday?
      • weka 11.2.1

        29 October 2019 at 11:38 pm

        bottle wall, sounds like Kiwis to me.

        Too many tourist freedom campers as well, and councils restricting where Kiwis can camp because of that is fucked up.
12. francesca 12

    29 October 2019 at 5:28 pm

    I wondered why the White Helmets didn't show up to help the Kurds

    Not just about fighting fires either

    https://www.kurdistan24.net/en/news/15b19407-31f2-4709-ab99-580b6a66dc72
    • Brigid 12.1

      29 October 2019 at 7:37 pm

      Speaking of the Kurds you may find this interesting (if you haven't already read it) https://www.voltairenet.org/article207992.html

      I wonder what the white helmets will do with the latest handout from Thrump.

      They could donate it to the OPCW of course

      https://medium.com/@caityjohnstone/opcw-losing-credibility-as-even-more-revelations-surface-on-douma-755a0621710b
      • Francesca 12.1.1

        29 October 2019 at 7:53 pm

        Hey thanks Brigid

        Hadn't come across those links
      • francesca 12.1.2

        29 October 2019 at 8:20 pm

        Jonathan Steele is a brave man!He was one of the few decent journalists at the Guardian, but now mostly writes for Middle East Eye
13. marty mars 13

    29 October 2019 at 5:33 pm

    Good work citizens

    A third of New Zealanders are cutting down on their meat consumption or not eating any at all, new research shows.

    The survey of more than 1000 people found that 31 percent have been limiting their meat intake over the past year, with a further 3 percent being vegetarian or vegan.

    Health was cited as the most common reason people were cutting down on meat, followed by concern for the environment and animal welfare.

    https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/402028/third-of-new-zealanders-eliminate-or-cut-down-on-eating-meat-research
    • Sacha 13.1

      29 October 2019 at 8:27 pm

      Surely cost would be one of the main reasons?
      • marty mars 13.1.1

        29 October 2019 at 8:37 pm

        Yeah I would have thought so too

        Some of the survey respondents named taste, nutrition and price as barriers to trying plant-based meat alternatives.

        …Despite plant-based meat alternatives evolving from traditional options, the research says only a fifth of New Zealanders have tried this 'new generation' of foods. And a further 44 percent expressed they'd like to try them, including nearly half of those reducing their meat intake.

        Vege sausages are $9 for 6 of them. I tried some vegan cheese the other day – man it was not good sadly.
14. Eco maori 14

    30 October 2019 at 2:01 pm

    That's the way we need to plant billions of trees to slow Global warming and Sea level rising.

    The more people that understand global warming the sooner we will ramp up the changes needed to minimise it.

    YouTube

    YouTube stars raise over $6m to plant trees around the world

    More than 600 creators and social media influencers join campaign to plant 20m trees

    A group of YouTube stars have raised more than $6m (£4.7m) to plant trees around the world by rallying their huge numbers of subscribers.

    The American YouTuber Jimmy Donaldson, known as MrBeast, was challenged on Reddit in May to plant 20m trees to celebrate reaching 20 million subscribers on his YouTube channel, where he posts videos of extravagant stunts.

    He then teamed up with other YouTubers to create the #TeamTrees project with a target of $20m – each $1 donation will plant one tree. Launched on 25 October, the crowdfunder raised $5m in just 48 hours, with $1.75m coming from YouTube alone, which the team claims is a new fundraising record for the site.

    Ka kite Ano link below.

    https://amp.theguardian.com/technology/2019/oct/29/youtube-stars-fundraise-plant-trees-around-the-world
15. Eco maori 15

    30 October 2019 at 6:29 pm

    Kia Ora 1 News.

    A election in Britain this year.

    The Grenfield fire was shocking heap of people lives lost.

    I can remember watching Greece it was the a movie that shaped cultures.

    Ka kite Ano.
16. Eco maori 16

    30 October 2019 at 6:41 pm

    Kia Ora Te Ao Maori News.

    I think that protecting our futures environment is important.

    Suicide is a waste of people lives and very sad.

    I agree with Moana Jackson.

    That's awesome Pharmacist being given a clearance to administer measles vaxcernations.

    Ka kite Ano
17. Eco maori 17

    31 October 2019 at 8:26 am

    Kia Ora Breakfast.

    How times have changed I can remember when a prominent Maori was grilled live about the same problems being talked about this morning.

    Awsome mahi Mike Te gumboot fund for people with vulnerable emotions.

    Totally agree with that statement Mike.

    Congratulations to Te Netball Wahine.

    I would love to go out and back up what I say and join the peaceful protest to protect our futures environment but that move would be putting myself in Check.

    Ka kite Ano.
18. Eco maori 18

    31 October 2019 at 9:55 am

    What I like about this research is that a few minor changes and our farmers will be mitigateing their carbon footprint. Another great point is the idea works with Papatuanuku and not trying to reinvent her or against her. Ka pai.

    Researchers dig deeper in fight against climate change

    Researchers have found deep soil holds potential to off-set greenhouse gas emissions and improve production for farmers.

    Dr Mike Beare and his colleagues at Plant and Food Research have been studying how soils differ in their potential to store carbon, and the risk for carbon loss.

    Many continuous pasture soils in New Zealand are stratified, with carbon levels declining rapidly with depth. "Where there is much greater potential to store additional carbon is below the surface soil," Beare said.

    The potential lies beneath the top 15 centimetres.

    Plant roots are an important source of the carbon that is constantly being fed into soils and help form the organic matter that improves soil health.

    The problem is that even with plants that do send roots below that depth, most of the roots still tend to be concentrated near the surface.

    

    "The challenge is to find productive and profitable plants that produce enough roots below ground," Beare says.

    Farmers re-seed pastures every 10-to-15 years, to improve the pastures' production. During this pasture renewal, Beare said farmers could create a deeper topsoil.

    Full-inversion tillage buries the carbon-rich top soil below 15cm and brings up the sub-soil material that is under-saturated in carbon

    Ka kite Ano link below.

    https://i.stuff.co.nz/business/farming/116646839/researchers-dig-deeper-in-fight-against-climate-change
19. Eco maori 19

    31 October 2019 at 11:43 am

    I agree every one is going to lose if we do not change the way we live to minimise our carbon footprint and become a carbon neutral society. We need to stop buying stuff and next minute literally they end up it Te Tangaroa or the dump. Some people are spouting doom and gloom because we have to become minimalist in every Facit of our lives. Reality is they don't want to change. If they don't get on the WAKA to becoming minimalist then I say they will lose.

    

    Some days, I am filled with dread. Some nights, I have trouble sleeping. But I would not swap my job for any other.

    As global environment editor for the Guardian, I report from the Amazon to the Arctic on the disappearing wonders of a rapidly deteriorating world. Along with a growing number of colleagues, I investigate who is affected, who is to blame and who is fighting back.

    This is both depressing and exciting. The trends for the climate, the oceans, the forests and the soil are unrelentingly frightening. Humanity has never faced a more wicked problem than the collapse of these natural life support systems. Nobody is free of responsibility. Everybody has something to lose, especially those with the most power. The challenge is huge, urgent and beset with opponents. But change is happening nonetheless.

    The primary challenge for a journalist is to make it feel personal. Without that, the science becomes abstract, global issues seem too huge to grasp, and it becomes difficult to relate to far off places and other species. Without that, the “environment” slips too easily into an elite pigeonhole for academics, policymakers and middle-class white people, when it should be recognised as the main driver of inequality, conflict and injustice. This is not just another subject; it is a prism through which to see the world.

    I came to this view reluctantly. Starting as a cub reporter in Asia in the 1990s, I initially wrote about politics, finance and sport – issues that are traditionally considered newsworthy because they are fast moving, human-focussed and marketable. But the more I travelled as a foreign correspondent, the harder it became to ignore how the degradation of the air, water, soil and climate was threatening people, other species and future generations. These themes rarely made front-page news, but they were often the underlying cause of political tension, economic instability and psychological unease.

    Ka kite Ano link below.

    https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2019/oct/28/everybody-has-something-to-lose-the-exciting-depressing-life-of-a-climate-writer
20. Eco maori 20

    31 October 2019 at 1:33 pm

    That's the way if you have the means Sue the people who are still wrecking our climate with pollution carbon emissions the oil producers.

    Iwi leader Mike Smith takes OMV oil boss to International Criminal Court

    Māori leader Mike Smith has shot the first arrow in a global war between indigenous communities and oil companies.

    Smith has started legal proceedings in the International Criminal Court (ICC) against Rainer Seele, the CEO of Austrian oil giant OMV.

    He said oil company executives deserved to stand trial for genocide and other climate crimes impacting on indigenous communities now and in the future

    "They choose to put profit ahead of millions of people all over the world who will suffer the effects of climate change. It's a crime of global proportions. I know it sounds dramatic but that's because it is. We need to hold these people to account."

    Smith is currently in Vienna, Austria where the OMV headquarters is based. He held a media conference outside their offices to announce the legal challenge.

    "We managed to chase out all the rest of them and turn the government around so we're not taking anymore permits," Smith said.

    Once we get rid of this lot then we become an exemplar to the rest of the world."

    In July, Smith filed proceedings in the High Court against the Government for failing to protect Māori from climate change

    Smith recently travelled to Mexico where he met with indigenous leaders from central and southern American tribes and First Nations people in Canada. He also attended the United Nations Indigenous Caucus earlier this year.

    The indigenous groups would join Smith in starting legal proceedings against a number of oil bosses in the ICC based in The Hague, Netherlands.

    We're expecting these companies to play dirty," Smith said.

    Ka kite Ano link below.

    https://i.stuff.co.nz/national/116938671/iwi-leader-mike-smith-takes-omv-oil-boss-to-international-criminal-court
21. Eco maori 21

    31 October 2019 at 3:00 pm

    Here we go people not respecting the beautiful creatures in our Wai Tuna being killed because they don't give a stuff. What a waste of a taonga and a precious resource.

    No-one will be prosecuted over the death of potentially hundreds of long-finned eels dug up and dumped by Hawke's Bay Regional Council workers clearing a drain, the Ministry for Primary Industries says.

    The dead and dying eels were discovered by Napier resident Matiu Heremia encased in tonnes of mud that had been dumped on the banks of the Moteo River in February.

    His video of the dead eels went viral on Facebook prompting MPI to investigate the council's practice and the council itself to halt all drain works while it undertook its own review.

    Eight months later MPI said it had "insufficient evidence" to lay any charges

    Matiu Heremia, who alongside family members, worked for hours to rescue eels that were still alive and return them to the river, said MPI's decision was "appalling."

    "It's absolute bollocks. In that video [there were] tonnes and tonnes of eel in that mud. There's enough evidence there to prosecute as far as I'm concerned."

    If that was me that hauled all those eels out of a drain I'd be in trouble … they'd come down on me like a tonne of bricks."

    Many Māori caught illegally fishing were not treated with such leniency, he said.

    Ka kite Ano link below.

    https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/402185/no-prosecutions-over-eel-deaths-that-followed-work-by-hawke-s-bay-regional-council
22. Eco maori 22

    31 October 2019 at 6:26 pm

    Kia Ora 1 News

    The misleading information unit is needed in this day and age.

    Katie the business close to the Tamarik Makaru city rail link will be happy that the government and council are putting a fund together to help for their loss of customers and profits.

    The wild life of Australia are suffering from the huge bushfire what a shame.

    Ka kite Ano
23. Eco maori 23

    31 October 2019 at 6:53 pm

    Kia Ora Te Ao Maori News.

    Never mind Hine 4 years is not long then you can get a 100 vote majority kia kaha.

    Ka pai to Te puea marae for looking after the homeless tangata and Wahine and who have bullying Tane. I say all Iwi should invest in Whare for Te tangata you know that old saying As Safe As Whare.

    They don't even want to share one seat.

    Ka kite Ano
24. Eco maori 24

    1 November 2019 at 9:04 am

    Kia ora they blocked my phone.

    https://youtu.be/LHCob76kigA
25. Eco maori 25

    1 November 2019 at 9:15 am

    It looks like the new Crown unit to stop social media fake news is being used against me the sole purpose for the old white men who have the power who have been shaping our society since Rob Muldoon. It's time to kick these old farts out of power.
    IE they blocked my devices this morning.
    Ka kite Ano
26. Eco maori 26

    1 November 2019 at 9:23 am

    I tried to stay out of the forestry debacle. But one does not sell Te Whenua to anyone it is a finite resource that needs to be kept in Kiwis hands or we will all become tenants in our own Aotearoa.

    Ka kite Ano link below.

    https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/top/402225/forestry-conversions-rules-totally-out-of-control

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