Open mike 29/10/2021

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, October 29th, 2021 - 120 comments
Categories: open mike - Tags:

Open mike is your post.

For announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose.

The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the Policy).

Step up to the mike …

120 comments on “Open mike 29/10/2021 ”

  1. Gezza 1


    Wildlife ranger in danger

    • Gezza 1.1

      For anyone not familiar with my stream friends, Elvira is a four foot long NZ Native Longfin Eel (Tuna, in Māori) about as round as a standard Golden Syrup tin, & Granville is about a 3 foot 6 inch long Australasian Shortfin "Tuna", a beautiful lime green & yellow colour, slightly slimmer than Elvira & with a pointier head shape.

      NZ Native Longfins all have blue eyes.

  2. Ad 2

    For good commentary on Auckland's 3 light rail options to go to Cabinet, check out Matt on GreaterAuckland for the $9B, $14B, and $16B options.

    Light rail veers off course – Greater Auckland

  3. Adrian Thornton 3

    More from the story that our new teen radio show known as RNZ and most media seem to be avoiding like the plague….

    DAY TWO — ‘CIA Tried to Kill Assange;’ US: ‘He’s Only Moderately Depressed & Won’t Go to Isolation’
    The two-day U.S. appeal against the denial of extradition of Julian Assange has ended in London with the U.S. promising humane prison conditions and Assange’s lawyers saying the CIA tried to kill him.

    • weston 3.1

      Thanks Adrian please keep the info and the links coming since noone else is bothering gonna be a long day of light rail an gender id by the looks still at least its not wall to wall covid !!

    • francesca 3.2

      The US has a long tradition of welching on it's agreements. They have no sense of honour. NZ has been a total disappointment in its willingness to look the other way when a journalist is being killed slowly in plain sight for exposing the criminality of governments. I no longer have any faith in our much touted independence, or the calibre and courage of our politicians

      So many NZers heading to the streets over our "freedom" but not one placard for Assange, one of the worst breaches of human rights in the western world

      Even Navalny gets conjugal visits (3 days) in a salubrious apartment within the prison , and gets to write letters and have social media accounts.

      Thanks Adrian for not letting TS forget .

    • Puckish Rogue 4.1

      The purge continues

      • Sabine 4.1.1

        If you get all the pesky women back into the three K's there will be no more problems and we will have gone back in to the good old times where women knew what is good for them. Or something.

        Maybe higher education is not all that high, but really just a cesspit of forced affirmation of the worst. If one goes into an apprenticeship and learnes a trade they at least have something of worth.

        • Puckish Rogue

          You have to wonder how the world changed so much so quickly that saying a man is not a woman will get you fired, in certain circles

          • swordfish


            Long March through the Institutions … Woke dogmatists, deeply immersed in Queer Theory, quietly capture administrative positions & enact profound change by stealth … no need for any of that really yucky stuff like democratic endorsement or accountability because … well … the vast majority of voters are just the most appalling deplorables who don't even remotely possess the Critical Theorists' unusually refined sensibilities… & obviously we can trust the highly privileged children of the Establishment to act in all of our best interests, can't we ?

            And, of course, Wokedom’s massive downplaying of class & wealth disparities [traditionally a core concern of the Left … & by far the most consequential factor for life chances] … in favour of a total obsession with & cynical weaponizing of ethnicty & (to a lesser extent) gender … dovetails very very nicely with Corporate interests.

            • Ad

              You must be referring to that non-democratic Parliamentary process called the Select Committee, which has through an extensive extra round of submissions on the Births Deaths and Marriages Bill. Plenty of unusually refined sensibilities faced political reality there.

              • Anker

                Normally you are on the money Ad, but in this case your statements are inaccurate.

                The BMDRR Bill went through a select committee process in 2018. When public submissions had closed, the Greens attempted to sneak through SOP 59 which is the gender self ID part of the Bill. Some women in the Green party got wind of it and that's how knowledge of this bill was made known to many feminists. Crown law saw problems with gender self id and declared the process of attempting to enact it in legislation was undemocratic and that there were potential conflicts with the Human Rights Act. Tracey Martin mothballed it.

                Labour did not have anything about gender self ID in its election manifesto. Nor was I informed about it as a party member (although I was regularly asked my opinion about many of their policies). A vote compass poll before the last election showed a majority of people do not support it.

                The Select Committee's Labour and Green members are clearly totally bias in favour of the bill and have shown contempt for most of the people presenting against the Bill …….Their behaviour improved after many letters to the PM. The Labour whip contacted many of us who complained and said the MPs had been spoken to and that we shouldn't have any more problems with them. Frankly their behaviour was disgusting. The clips from the select committee were shown overseas and I think it showed the NZ parliament in a poor light

                Without exception every person in my network I have spoken to about Gender self ID (and I do move in more left/progressive circles0 is not aware of this legislation and they are shocked that it about to become law.

                There has been an almost total black out of reporting on this bill.

                I can't see anything in this process that is democratic whatsoever.

            • RedLogix

              Luxury beliefs

              • swordfish


                Precisely … great for signalling 'elevated' social status … often at a direct & profound cost to 'ordinary' people … aided by moral panics, purity spirals & the uber-romanticisation of intersectional 'in-groups'.

          • francesca

            Check out this mishmash of an article on Stuff.

            Seems like the gender workshops didn't take that well

            We start off with the newly correct " pregnant people," but revert to pregnant women .


        • Drowsy M. Kram

          Maybe higher education is not all that high, but really just a cesspit of forced affirmation of the worst.

          Maybe not everyone wading/swimming/deep diving through that "cesspit of forced affirmation of the worst" is completely beyond redemption, remembering that most registered nurses and teachers, veterinarians, doctors, dentists, pharmacists, commecial pilots, architects and engineers emerge from the so-called ‘cesspit’.

          Although I'll grant you so do all our lawyers and accountants, plus a fair few MPs and small business owners.

          • Sabine

            I note your concern and consider it irrelevant to the facts stated in this case.

            • Drowsy M. Kram

              Was simply observing that the second half of your comment @4.1.1 comes across to me as a stinky dump on our institutions of higher learning – the consequence of a (deliberate?) scatter-gun shock-jock critique, imho.

          • Molly

            Read, just read.


            Then comment.

            • Drowsy M. Kram

              Dear Molly, I “just read” this:

              Maybe higher education is not all that high, but really just a cesspit of forced affirmation of the worst.

              Then I thought about it for ~20 minutes.

              Then I commented. My hope is that my comment @ will help some readers here to think about how workers in higher education might perceive Sabine's comment. That is all.

              • Molly

                Cherry picking one statement (and 20 min?) without putting into context, means that you wasted 20 min of your time.

                Find out the full story behind the resignation of Kathleen Stock, then take some time to process, before commenting.

                Your comments on this topic tend to have little or nothing to do with the main story.

                • Drowsy M. Kram

                  Dear Molly, I (again) regret that my replies have proved unsatisfactory.

                  I "just read" (paraphrasing): 'higher education is really just a cesspit of forced affirmation of the worst.', and (as a former tertiary educator) saw red.

                  On reflection I see that Sabine was not characterising all of higher education as a cesspit, but rather just a small subset that is (thankfully) well clear of my area of expertise. Apologies to you and Sabine.

                  • Molly

                    Oh, dear Molly again? (Watch out, your patronising is becoming harder to hide).

                    For your edification.

                    It is apparent to me, and possibly others, that you have made no independent efforts to find out about some of the threads you so 'innocently' wander onto.

                    Criticism of your 'well-thought' comments, is in regards to relevance. You seem determined to be both irrelevant and proud of it.

                    Redirection is a way of avoiding the topic at hand. You are an adept at that.

                    Providing another perspective or insight into the topic in discussion is another matter.

                    (As I have instilled in my children, apologies without sincerity should not be offered. Apologies without a change in behaviour are worthless. I doubt your sincerity.)

                    • Drowsy M. Kram

                      Molly – again, my apologies, however little they may count for.

                    • Molly

                      laugh OK.

                      Now go find out for yourself about what has transpired so that Kathleen Stock has resigned from her post at Sussex University. (Actions remember?)

                      (Ask for links if you don’t know where to start)

                  • Sabine

                    you know, maybe not seeing red at the slightest infraction is the way to go. And as Molly stated, please follow up on the story of this particular women, who by all means was vilified, harrassed, threatened with all sorts of violence – physical violence, who was not helped at all by her so called union, and who 'self selected' out of a job in order to probably not be raped, beaten and killed by someone who thought she was fair game as a TERF a transphobe and other assorted bullshit.

                    And yes, that higher education is a cesspit of almost religious fervent and fuck it, but these kids are not learning anything in this 'institution' other then when you just bully someone hard enough, when the threats of violence are just convincing enough, not only does the victim get to carry the burden of it all, but you win – the biggest, vilest and most unsavory bully will win, and the Union and the University will do nothing.

                    And that dear DMK is a cesspit. And worse even, these young people being so disserved in this institution will end up with a life time of debt, but hardly any skills, but they get to feel proud for hounding out that Terf.

                    And btw, i have two completed apprenticeships by the time i was 30, one in wholesale and one in accountancy. Part of that was contract law, small and large business law, accounting, customer service etc etc. No debts, but rather got paid. You ain't gonna make me feel bad about not having been to one of these overrated usurious institutions for the same gain.

          • mikesh

            Although I'll grant you so do all our lawyers and accountant

            We have words like 'racist' and 'sexist' to cover those sorts of prejudice, but unfortunately I cannot think of an '-ist' word that covers that sort of prejudice.

    • Sabine 4.2

      Marion Millars case was 'discontinued' by the crown. But, and i guess that is the difference between dropped and discontinued, they crown and start this up again at a later stage.

      In the meantime a new Witch was found and is forced to defend herself for 'disobedience' to the almighty penis, @femmeloves Ceri Black, and she will now have to fend of those that would love to burn an unruly witch at the stake for public entertainment.

      • weka 4.2.1

        might be a bit soon to say this, but I think the tide is turning in the UK. How that will play with the conservative political milieu remains to be seen, especially if Scotland gets independence which leaves the rest of the UK ultra conservative parlimentary wise. I know people in the UK who believe they're heading for fascism (removing protest rights is a really bad sign).

        • Anker

          I agree Weka, I think the tide is turning in the UK. And it is very good news about Marion Miller, but she should never have been charged in the first place.

          Not in NZ as there is almost a total media black out in these issues. With the exception of an excellent interview with Helen Joyce in the NZ Listener, this weeks edition I think.

          Here's a short list: J K Rowling, Marion Miller Maya Forstater, Margeret Atwood, Germaine Greer,…….

          And of course many many other women who have been cancelled, threatened with murder, violence and rape.

        • Sabine

          Nope, the tide is not turning, yet.

          It is just that some is too stupid to actually follow through. And as I said, the crown can bring these charges again, at a different time. But for now, Marion Millar is getting the right to breathe, and she gets to keep her children.

          Scotland is actually worse then England in this Gender Bullshit Saga.

          I know people who believe that NZ is heading for fascism, (removing protests right is really a bad sign) _ i add this not to make fun of what you said, but people are saying exactly the same here in regards to Tamaki and his unmerry band of followers. And fwiw, in NZ our dear leader from Labour with their support group The Greens are happy to forge ahead with this bullshit, never mind the women and girls whose life are apparently not worthy of safety, and dignity to even just toilet in peace. Or for lesbians to choose a partner to their liking, freely and without fear of tra's ire and hate.

          • weka

            Fuck sake Sabine. In the UK the Tory government is removing protest rights permanently because they can see the shit storm coming with social breakdown and that XR aren’t going away and are replicating.

            NZ has some very temporary restrictions on gatherings because of a pandemic, and even those are being phased out.

            They’re two completely different things.

            • Molly

              I'm also seeing red flags about the trajectory of current political discourse in NZ. I didn't pay enough attention to the introduction of the hate speech bill, but on present investigation it looks like a terrible piece of legislation. I can see it being used in a malicious way, similar to what has happened in Scotland and Northern Ireland, if interpreted in the same way by the police here.

              Our society, along with many others in world who are dealing with multiple existential threats (Covid, Climate Change) alongside the foreseeable but ignored endgames of poverty, inequality, housing crisis, degraded public services and infrastructure, has a large number of people who are untethered from their normal grounding processes. Eg. For those who ground themselves with social interaction, lockdown has broken that link. The reliance on technology to replace such interactions is exposed as a trojan horse when we listen to the testimony of Frances Haugen.

              My point is, we don't need the government to do anything to make some believe in fascism. There are other influential agencies out there promoting that belief, some of whom may actually have more influence on the public than our own politicians.

              I don't know the answer to this.

              (But a recognition from our government that this is occurring, and some ideas about how to counteract it would be a start, else every step they take without full transparency just feeds the beast in the shadows.)

            • Bearded Git

              The restrictions on voting in the UK, where Boris is proposing needing to produce evidence of identity is also scary. This always puts the less well off from voting.

              Meanwhile the dinosaur Starter has come out against PR. Can't he see that this is both fairer and his easiest path to being PM?

          • weka

            What evidence is there that the Crown was too stupid to follow through? As opposed to they realised the case wasn’t valid.

            • Sabine

              I did not say to stupid to follow through, i said 'they saw it was a stupid case that would go nowhere. Sorry if that does was not clear. A ribbon ain't a noose, no matter what anyone wants to pretend. To make this a case was stupid, and going through with this case would have shown that 'stupidity' that in my book is organised harrasment by officials and their enforcers the police in order to shut down mainly women who might be upset about certain things that happen and that loose their jobs if voicing these objections. We have these issues already here see Ani O'Brian.

              And as i said, i don't disagree with you not having protests atm, in fact i more often then not ask people to abstain from any large gatherings for the next two years, that would include protests. But just because we don't like this particular protest does not mean it is not in infractions on someones 'right to protests' and either we ban all of these protests under the health act or we might show a bias towards cases we personally approve of. And always please keep in mind, that as someone who grew up in Germany, who went trhough 'denazification' in school, I have my very own mind on things that might seem very outlandish to New Zealanders.

              It always starts with very small things, one might call this the death of a thousand cuts. And no matter if we approve of some groups or not, we should always be very careful in giving up rights that were won with blood and tears.

        • francesca

          ‘I think the tide is turning”
          I do too, and it’s thanks to people like JK Rowling and Kathleen Stock who refused to say black is white, refused to issue grovelling apologies to keep their place in employment, and refused to back down .

          And in all of that still affirmed the same human rights for trans as we all have.

        • francesca

          This also suggests a "turn" when the BBC allows a lesbian to speak about lesbians difficulties with "transbians", ie fully covked and stubbled men who want to have sex with lesbian women

    • Anker 4.3

      I am not surprized. She endured the most vile level of harrasment and threatening behaviur. I hate to think what the impact has been for her. Told to install security cameras at her home and needing security as protection.

      Kathleen Stock has been so reasonable and spoke of her fears of a backlash against Trans people because of gender ideology..

      How come the police can't charge these people?

      • Sabine 4.3.1

        Because the police is a partner of Stonewall and diversity. And is – it appears quite happy to charge any women with a 'non crime hate incident' for stating that men ain't no women, that grooming exist, that safe guarding is needed, and can we just be sensible.

        But then, if you look closely, very closely, they don't do that shit to men. I wonder why.

        But i guess it is easier to police' non crime hate incidents' rather then go after people who inject women in pubs with drugs, or people who rape and kill women in bright day light, or even just to police their own collegues who go by nickname such as 'the rapist'.

      • Puckish Rogue 4.3.2

        'How come the police can't charge these people?'

        Why indeed

        Once again its women (girls) paying the price

        • Sabine

          Well to be fair, the police in the UK is to busy investigating ribbons for nooses, and 'non crime hate incidents'. The many many hundreds of thousands of complaints to the Police for 'misgendering' someone, or for writing tweets about safe guarding children.

          • Puckish Rogue

            Kinda funny how these so-called terfs get labelled as far right, right wing extremists and conservatives etc

            As someone is conservative I didn't think supporting women was a right wing thing but there you go

            We certainly have gone down a helluva rabbit hole

    • miravox 4.4

      Intelligent and competent woman hounded out of her job by abuse and threats of violence.

      The only thing that has changed is the topic and the extreme level of vitriol that seems to go with that.

  4. Cricklewood 5

    Vaccine effiacy study currently in pre print on the Lancet out of Sweden. In some groups vaccine efficacy drops to zero by 9 Months and potentially below zero. Pretty scary.

    The effectiveness against severe illness seems to remain high through 9 months, although not for men, older frail individuals, and individuals with comorbidities. This strengthens the evidence-based rationale for administration of a third booster dose.

  5. veutoviper 6


  6. chris T 7

    How the f' can Zuckerberg be so desperate to pull this publicity stunt? Have I missed some controversy?

    Yeas Mark. Because you have told people to. They will stop calling it Facebook…………F'ing sleazy prick

  7. chris T 8

    Apologies for the language there btw. Some rich people just annoy me 🙂

    • mac1 9.1

      A selfie from the selfish, a twit on Twitter, bragging from a braggart. The foolish do not comprehend their stupidity.

      • Patricia Bremner 9.1.1

        Turns out she had an exemption letter. Now there is bound to be scrutiny, as that gem was from the Police.

        • Anne

          I think she is going to get a visit from the police shortly. Oh how I will laugh when they take her away in handcuffs and she's denied bail on the grounds she's too stupid to be set free. laugh

  8. Sabine 10

    came across this via the BBC (if that is still considered a reputable institution). This is in regards to vaccinated people still spreding covid and still getting it.

    According to the study, which ran from September 2020 to September 2021 and included 440 households in London and Bolton doing PCR Covid tests:

    • People who are double jabbed have a lower, but still appreciable, risk of becoming infected with the Delta variant compared with unvaccinated people
    • They also appear to be just as infectious
    • Vaccinated people clear the infection more quickly, but their peak viral load – when people are most infectious – is similar to that seen in unvaccinated people
    • This may explain why they can still readily pass on the virus in household settings

    this might also explain why cases in AKL are not dropping as much as expected and as fast as we might wish for it.

    Thus anyone who is expected to isolate at home, depending on the size of that home, will with good chance infect anyone else in that household, no matter if they are double jabbed, single jabbed or not jabbed at all.

    So please, mask up, keep physical distance, and once, twice three times santize, and stay away from large scale events no matter how hungry one is for a game of sport or a concert or a theatre production or any other gathering where transmission is easy, fast and guaranteed.

  9. Wow Labour is shifting into high gear. New Min for Disabled People announced.

    Government announces new Ministry for Disabled People and accessibility law | RNZ News

  10. Descendant Of Smith 12

    Government announces new Ministry for Disabled People

    And about time. I have been advocating for this for over 30 years now as once turned 18 (in practicality 16) until you turned 65 basically any problems such as financial abuse had to be dealt with either by agencies who totally took a hands off approach – don't believe me ask them what their written policy if and when staff come across suspected abuse of clients by family members, etc. – or by the police.

    Lets hope they address this issue as part of this establishment. Guidance for agencies to have policies around abuse and somewhere to report those to would be a good start.

    • chris T 12.1

      I hate doing this. I actually do. But it has been a bug bear of mine having for a while having a deaf uncle this govt turfed the sign langauge person from question time.

      Have they changed their mind?

      • McFlock 12.1.1

        Are there more interpreters available? That's why they stopped it a few months after bringing NZSL interpreters into QT. It's not like they cancelled a long-term practise, they tried it and it meant other people were missing out on services.

        • chris T

          "nd it meant other people were missing out on services."

          What other people were missing out from having a sign language interpret in parliament at question time?

          • dv

            In the link

            no longer be used during parliamentary question time because it is putting pressure on other services the small pool of interpreters offer deaf people, such as going to the doctor or school.

        • chris T

          And to be perfectly frank. The cash for them them seems fairly free flowing for Ardern's daily Covid Pressers

        • chris T

          And how are "other people missing out on services?"

          • McFlock

            As your uncle whether he'd rather watch question time with an NZSL interpreter or go to the emergency room with one.

    • Rosemary McDonald 12.2

      Government announces new Ministry for Disabled People

      An announcement met with guffaws of disdain in our wee household.

      (Tell you what DOS, let's review this in 30 years time and see if there's any appreciable difference in the lives of those with significant disabilities not supported by ACC.)

      • weka 12.2.1

        Government announces new Ministry for Disabled People

        Makes me nervous.

        • mac1

          It's the Ministry for the Disabled, not for Disabling. You'll be OK.

        • Rosemary McDonald

          Little waffling on with the usual 'we will consult with disabled peoples' organisations…' bs. More korero with the organisations 'representing' disabled people who have enjoyed the largesse of the government without actually having to do much in the way of actual real advocacy.

          (Peter is ready and waiting whenever they want an individual's real 'lived experience' opinion on how it should have, could have, been done. First off he'll tell them that he felt more supported and included (in some aspects) fifty one years ago when he broke his neck than he does now.)

          Could the new MFDP really do worse? (Rhetorical wink)

          • Descendant Of Smith

            "More korero with the organisations 'representing' disabled people who have enjoyed the largesse of the government without actually having to do much in the way of actual real advocacy"

            Including referring to each other the same client so they could all get paid for the same piddly thing that they might have achieved. The established groups in bed with the government have had some very cosy arrangements in the past. Good stuff still tends to happen due to good individuals rather than structural support. Privatisation has focussed on profits rather than service and need.

            I'm hopeful there is much more of a move to partnership with those with disabilities as as starting to happen with Maori. Also a mainly de-centralised regional workforce rather than a Wellington one. People who have access to local communities – not just the Chief Executives of the organisations you reference.

            I guess now is the time to try and influence what it will finish up as – that is more hopeful than trying to influence the current set-up. I'll start with optimism anyway.

          • weka

            NZ is full of disabled people with massive experience in what is needed at the system level. Labour and MoH don't trust us.

        • Sabine

          to be honest, my first reaction was 'oh boy'.

          An 0800 number is access, it still does not mean any services were provided or that anything is getting better for those living with disability and those that care for people with disabilities.

          I hope that his ministry will be doing better works then say Social Welfare, ACC, Ministry of Health, Ministry of Housing etc.

          • weka

            Here's what I expect:

            • a lot of wonderful things written about supporting disabled people, mission statements, plans about how to improve things
            • some of that will actually work and there will definitely be disabled people whose lives improve
            • because Labour work from a paternalistic model rather than a power sharing one, they will miss the people who don't fit in the systems well, and probably some of those that do.
            • if Labour actually knew what they were doing they would have raised SLP and reinstated sickness benefit by now.

            Thing I feel most nervous about is longer term plans to address the disparities between ACC, disability and illness, and that Labour will fuck this up. As bad as WINZ is, I don't trust Labour to shift income to the new department but I can see the accountants sharpening their budgeting pencils already. Welfare income via WINZ is a statutory right afaik, and health isn't. We will see if they give disabled people actual rights here.

            • Patricia Bremner

              Andrew Little said today, "The disabled had told him disability was not a health matter, it was more about being empowered." That did not sound too paternalistic.

              • Sabine

                Disability is very much a health issue, if it weren't these people would not be disabled.

                Andrew Little, the sooner he retires into a nice and cushy board job somewhere to be never seen again the better.

            • Sabine

              I am hoping they will, but like you i just simply can't seem them getting it right for all the reasons you mentioned.

              But, here is hoping.

      • chris T 12.2.2

        What NZSL interpreter?

        Forgive me if I am just thick, but Labour dropped them for TV

  11. chris T 13

    "Parliaments stops use of sign language interpreters for question time"

    The party that loves the disabled

    • dv 13.1

      Yep there were not enough of them to do parliament and help deaf at the dr, school etc.

      • chris T 13.1.1

        What a crock of shit. They have piled millions into Covid and are openly pretending to give a toss about the disabled

  12. chris T 14

    Actually that would be billions

  13. chris T 15

    How much would NZSL be for question time.

    Lets say 2 hours?

    At the most 200k?

    • McFlock 15.1

      It. Wasn't. The. Cost.

      It was the fact that feedback from the people who actually used NZSL interpreters was that they'd rather have the few NZSL interpreters available for their daily lives, rather than the few die-hards who want to watch QT live rather than (at best) at the 6pm news (with subtitles).

      from your (and my) link (emphasis added):

      Clerk of the House of Representatives David Wilson said a decision had been made jointly with Deaf Aotearoa to stop the service in response to concerns that resources were being stretched.

      "The pool of interpreters is very small and we've been told that having interpreters at Parliament every day that the House sits is putting a lot of pressure on the services they offer in other areas like at the doctor, in schools or when getting legal advice," Wilson said.

      "We've listened to those concerns and responded by returning to offering NZSL at Parliament for significant events."

      • weka 15.1.1

        die hards lol. Who here watches parliament TV?

        Maybe the government should train more interpreters.

        • McFlock

          Well, if one or two in an afternoon can deprive someone of communication in school in Wellington, fair to say there's a shortage that needs sorting out.

  14. Karl Sinclair 16

    news just in from bbc

    Individuals who have had two vaccine doses can be just as infectious as those who have not been jabbed.

    Now let’s reflect on what I think was said by Associate Professor Siouxsie Wiles (probably wants another award) I think said (parroting CNNs propaganda division again)

    “This is a pandemic of the unvaccinated “

    yeah but naaa Miss Wiles

    Having been vaccinated I still think it’s ok for other people to have freedom of choice (some have legitimate concerns). I’m uncomfortable with any worker not being found alternative and comparable paid jobs if the refuse vaccines. I don’t think I can resolve this in my head as can see both sides. However……

    Segregation via terms like “this is a pandemic of the unvaccinated” is just sanctimonious BS.

    Maybe little Miss & Mrs Inclusivity (insert political party and media outlets of choice) could be, well a little more inclusive and instead say:

    “this is a pandemic of the vaccinated and unvaccinated”

    It ain’t so black or white is it… Experts meh (wicked problems make fools of us all)

    latest from bbc

    Individuals who have had two vaccine doses can be just as infectious as those who have not been jabbed.

    Even if they have no or few symptoms, the chance of them transmitting the virus to other unvaccinated housemates is about two in five, or 38%.

    This drops to one in four, or 25%, if housemates are also fully vaccinated.

    The Lancet Infectious Diseases work shows why getting even more people vaccinated and protected is important, they say.

    Unvaccinated people cannot rely on those around them being jabbed to remove their risk of getting infected, they warn.

    ■ Covid infection protection waning in double jabbed
    Vaccines do an excellent job of preventing serious Covid illness and deaths, but are less good at stopping infections, particularly since the emergence of the more infectious Delta variant which is dominant in the UK.
    And over time, the protection offered by vaccines wanes and needs boosting with further doses.

    Since households are where most Covid transmission occurs, making sure every member who is eligible for a vaccine has had one and is up to date with their doses makes sense, say experts.

    According to the study, which ran from September 2020 to September 2021 and included 440 households in London and Bolton doing PCR Covid tests:
    ■ People who are double jabbed have a lower, but still appreciable, risk of becoming infected with the Delta variant compared with unvaccinated people
    ■ They also appear to be just as infectious
    ■ Vaccinated people clear the infection more quickly, but their peak viral load – when people are most infectious – is similar to that seen in unvaccinated people
    ■ This may explain why they can still readily pass on the virus in household settings

    Prof Ajit Lalvani, of Imperial College London, UK, who co-led the study, said: "The ongoing transmission we are seeing between vaccinated people makes it essential for unvaccinated people to get vaccinated to protect themselves from acquiring infection and severe Covid-19, especially as more people will be spending time inside in close proximity during the winter months.
    "We found that susceptibility to infection increased already within a few months after the second vaccine dose – so those eligible for booster shots should get them promptly.

  15. francesca 17

    Adrian Thornton

    Here's Selwyn Manning with a long piece on the recent hearings and a group interested in providing a safe haven here in Aotearoa for J Assange .

    Me, I'm not so pollyanna about our country's independence anymore.My experience on this supposedly left wing blog revealed a disturbingly anti-Assange group think.

    • Descendant Of Smith 17.1

      Surprised me too though and even more so that it persists – so did the anti-rugby groupthink here surprise me.

      On the other hand I actively dislike religion so I guess we all have our biases.

      With Assange he s clearly being treated terribly and I find it difficult to reconcile the fight to keep people out of jail, treat prisoners more humanly, etc etc with ignoring how even people we may not like be treated in the justice system.

      Quite a contrast in thinking with Brevik who actually murdered people.

      “Norway is a country known for its progressive prison system, and in its ruling, the court writes that ‘the prohibition of inhuman and degrading treatment represents a fundamental value in a democratic society,’ and that this also applies to terrorists and killers. …

      • francesca 17.1.1

        Finally the tide is turning, but too little , too late I think

        The media piled on, trashing his reputation and unfortunately too many people believed it. Without that there may have been the chance of a mass grass roots movement to get him freed .Pretty disappointing to see so many joining in to put their boot in

        Yes, the Norwegians take human rights seriously.

    • chris T 17.2

      What do you you think our view of Assange should be?

      Given his well publicised antics.

  16. chris T 18

    Not looking that shit hot for me old home town ChCh (well Kaiapoi, but same place roughly)

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