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Open mike 29/03/2014

Written By: - Date published: 6:48 am, March 29th, 2014 - 145 comments
Categories: open mike - Tags:

openmike Open mike is your post.

For announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose.

The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the Policy).

Step up to the mike …

145 comments on “Open mike 29/03/2014”

  1. veutoviper 1

    A positive, inspirational report to start the day, surprisingly the lead story on Stuff at the moment at least.


    And best wishes to all of those able to make it to the various demonstrations happening throughout the country today.

    EDIT – Snap with North at 2!

  2. miravox 3

    US human rights high ground under pressure

    The UN has delivered a withering verdict on the US’s human rights record, raising concerns on a series of issues including torture, drone strikes, the failure to close Guantánamo Bay and the NSA’s bulk collection of personal data…

    …The committee also expressed alarm about the continued use of the death penalty in a 16 states, the “still high number” number of fatal shootings by certain police forces, notably in Chicago and the high proportion of black people in the country’s jails.

    • ianmac 3.1

      And the gall of the USA to condemn the Russian invasion of Crimea without loss of life after USA invaded Iraq with the loss of 100 X thousands of innocent life. The cheek of it!

      • Poission 3.1.1

        Turkey initiates Youtube ban to constrain inconvenient evidence.


        Turkey a NATO member seems to be implicated in a Wag the dog experiment.

      • Populuxe1 3.1.2

        If you actually bothered to connect to the real world, the Ukrainian death toll is currently at 75 and will no doubt be vast if Russia and Ukraine go to war. I see no value in jumping around and pointing fingers at the sins of the US when a possibly even worse bloodbath is about to occur

        • Pascal's bookie

          Yes, what’s a little torture between virtue ethicists. They’re our friends! They only torture bad guys, except for when they get the wrong guy, but you can hardly blame them for making a mistake! Everyone makes mistakes.

    • Ian 3.2

      well don’t do the crime…geezzz

  3. CC 4

    Today’s sick offering in Stuff illustrates why Duncan Garner’s work needs to be digested with a clothes-pegged nose. Today he starts with a story of a glazier who couldn’t obtain a building apprenticeship, while Fletcher Construction and fellow travelers are importing workers for the Christchurch rebuild. He then blows on the old dog-whistle, implying that the young unemployed are feckless dole bludgerswho should to be forced to work on the Christchurch building sites. Since Fletchers and others are the recipients of massive corporate welfare, they should be forced to provide employment and trade training opportunities for our youth. Instead, they are maximising on the unique profit-making situation the Government has gifted them by bringing in overseas navvies.

    Seemingly, Garner’s brain cells are more idle than the hordes of lazy dole bludgers that exist more in his imagination than reality.

  4. veutoviper 5

    As PG seems to be here on TS a lot lately, I thought I would check out Politicheck’s website and their Twitter account to see what was happening.

    There seems to be nothing new on the website since the announcement of staff appointments on March 10. Likewise, the latest entry on their twitter account was on March 15.

    Dead in the water?

    Waiting, waiting – 1,2,3,……

  5. andy (the other one) 6

    Two days, two articles, two different media outlets admitting that they know National use Slater/Farrar to smear and dissemble.

    Both media outlets admit they are still happy to run those lines without attribution to who actually provides the source material.

    Drinnan in The Herald & Watkin’s at Fairfax.

    All these examples of dirty tricks, whisper campaigns and character assassination go by without comment. Our media are captured, lazy and unable to function properly.

    Can’t forget the new front in the Nats media machine Gossip.

    • karol 6.1

      Good comment, – worth putting in a quick post, if you don’t mind, andy?

      • phillip ure 6.1.1

        something ‘funny’ has also happened to john armstrong over the last couple of days..

        ..after earlier in the week penning one of the few intelligent/considered looks at the possible benefits for both mana party and internet party from forming an alliance-lite umbrella party to fight the election..

        ..today he is right/write on message – with the official-line..

        ..and has done a piece that totally pisses all over/rips up what he wrote 48hrs earlier…

        ..and is basically a vomit all over dotcom and all he stands for..

        ..and he laughs hysterically at any possibility of any electoral-success..

        ..on so many levels/ways..w.t.f. happened..?

        ..and which john armstrong should we give any credence to..?

        ..if any..?

        • bad12

          Barking mad the lot of them, the dogs of National’s disinformation service, Armstrong, Trevett, O’Sullivan showing spasms of the fear that they echo on behalf of the 9th floor of the Beehive,

          Does Armstrong have info from someone that us mere peasants are not privy to, in this morning’s grand gush of vitriol He does not mince words about the chances of DotCom being extradited,

          ”When he is extradited” is Armstrong’s ‘line’ pointing the finger at the Judiciary as having already decided the fate of DotCom,

          What causes Armstrong to be so certain about the outcome, has He had word, along with the order to bark long and loud in an attempt to disparage DotCom that ‘the system’ has agreed to close ranks to rid the country of this interloper onto the political playing field???,

          To pen such words as ”when He is extradited” with regards to DotCom implies certainty of knowledge from Armstrong, within such an admission is one of broader concern which suggests, far from the common belief, that the Judiciary is as tainted by the same open bias that appears to be the driving force behind the scribblings of Armstrong and the other dogs of the National Party disinformation service…

          • The Al1en

            ”when He is extradited”

            Can’t see that bit in Armstrong’s article.


            Armstrong does makes some valid points. Particularly relevant are those about would be voters for the ip not really being the mana demographic, friend of the poor/left which is quite unbelievable given his past form, which does make many think ‘wool over eyes’, and of course the whole paragraph about the real motive behind the party launch – To keep .com from being extradited.

            • bad12

              The Alien, reading your comment i just about had a little ‘barking fit’ of my own, ”When He is extradited” is definitely what i read this morning,

              Just about makes me want to go out and find the print edition of the Herald(National Party disinformation service),

              Could John have been awoken from His slumbers at his computer terminal by the editorial staff telling Him to edit that piece because they have read the inference that i make about the words ”when He is extradited”,

              While i cannot ‘swear’ that what i read this morning was what i read my opinion is the piece has suffered a speedy ‘edit’, to subtly change the blunt statement ”when He is extradited” to something a little more elongated but in essence saying exactly the same thing, Paragraph Six says this:

              –”And that it will not fold the moment He and the Party’s main source of income move offshore through being extradited to the United States” unquote John Armstrong

              There is no IF evident there,so it is still an event that Armstrong ‘sees’ as a given although as exhibited by the part of Paragraph Six i reproduce above there is an obvious softening from the blunt ”when he is extradited’ that i read this morning…

              • The Al1en

                I don’t doubt what you read as on-line content is subject to change, just saying I didn’t see it in the article I linked to, speaking of which, I prefer this quote.

                “Dotcom’s purpose in setting up the Internet Party is solely to make it a bottom-line of any post-election talks that whoever is Minister of Justice quash any court ruling which would force his extradition. Such a bottom-line would be preposterous and would amount to Dotcom’s party being the sickest joke played on New Zealand voters.”

                • bad12

                  i think Armstrong has something wrong with His memory, ”National will not be raising GST” widely broadcast as coming out of the mouth of Slippery the Prime Minister in 2008 prior to the election was a far sicker joke than a slight corruption of the system that Armstrong points to when that system already corrupted itself by allowing DotCom and any number of other’s who could be said to have characters far from unblemished into the country based upon their having ‘money’…

                  • The Al1en

                    The nats letting weirdo colin and who ever is leading act at the moment in to parliament rivals the .com party as far as sick jokes go, but sadly, that’s what politics seems has come to in it’s race to the bottom.

                • MrSmith

                  I’m well aware your not fond of Kim Allen, but a question?

                  Do you think what Kim allegedly does is a criminal matter or a civil matter.

                  Because all I see is a civil matter.

                  If the Hollywood studios can’t sort this civil matter out without having to call in our very own ‘Keystone cops’ The New Zealand Police force, that by the way was seemingly handed over to them by a subservient Government then Hollywood have real problems.

                  And to take this a bit farther and I’m just day dreaming a bit now, but you really have to wonder if Key in one of his big headed moments, with a nose full of coke said, “leave it to me boys I can save you a fortune in Lawyers fees, I’ll just have the GCSB and the NZ Police sort it out.”

                  • The Al1en

                    Not being a lawyer I wouldn’t have a clue, it’ll be a guess at best.

                    For the copyright infringements I’ll plump for criminal, citing Napster as a precedent, and the money laundering, if true, likewise.

                    • MrSmith

                      I’m no Lawyer either but I have a lot of faith in the system that we have and basically it works like this, when something new comes to light, it will be tested in law at some stage, I think this is a good system, sure there will be some winners and losers initially at times and some people will make a fortune if forward thinking, but lets take a breath and look at the alternative, which is every new idea has to be tested in law before we have any idea what will happen when it’s used in the real world, which is basically impossible, the genie is out of the bottle.

                      So basically Napster was a president in Law and since then the music industry has used that to protect and fight for their intellectual/property rights and the same applies here, yet in this case they tried to go down the criminal path from the beginning, when it really was only a civil matter, sure the US have thrown in money laundering and racketeering with the copyright infringement but really it’s about copyright infringement first and the rest is up to the tax department, lets not forget copyright infringement goes on every day in just about every house in this country.


                      This was nothing more than New Zealand bending over and taking one in the Ass for Uncle Sams Hollywood executives.

              • PapaMike

                As I understand it the presiding judge looks at the information presented for the extradition hearing by both parties, and makes a decision based solely on that information to make a decision, which is whether there is a case to answer, or not.
                And that is all.
                There is no jury or anything else – this is in accordance with the Extradition Act.

                • lprent

                  No you are quite wrong. Most of the decision is made by the judge and much of it is about the applicability of the extradition application to laws in NZ. Since the laws he is charged under in the US aren’t appliciable here, I would say it is a travesty.

                  Rather than being a lazy papa, raise your standard and read the MFAT summary. It will make you look less of a stupid limp dick…

      • andy (the other one) 6.1.2

        @Karol: Help yourself, I am not a writer so please feel free to expand. I am quite dejected about the poor state of our political media.

    • geoff 6.2

      The Standard is suggested to be the leftwing counterpart to Whaleoil in the Watkins piece. Ugh.

      The thing about Whaleoil is that it takes the heat off of David Farrar/KiwiBlog/Curia who I think is more destructive than Cameron Slater.

  6. this is a really well-written piece of longform-journalism..

    ..it us a total delight..actually..(lyn of tawa prounciay-tion of ‘is’..)


    cool guy goes to mock – a 70’s revival-band..and stays to praise…

  7. cricklewood 8

    Checked out the internet party app last this morning. The list of permissions is a bit different to most.
    Allow to send messages, record audio, take pictures stand out. Seems unnecessary but I don’t really know how these things work all my other apps dont allow these.
    Can anyone offer a more qualified opinion?

  8. geoff 9

    What’s going on here?

    ‘Taxpayers’ union (David Farrar + Jordan Williams) having a go at Steven Joyce.



    • they support collins against joyce in the national party succession-battle..

      ..they see him as ‘wet’ vs collins’ ‘dry’..

      ..and this pushes that ‘wet’-meme..

      ..and is a dogwhistle to the party members/party-base..

      ..that could well be a component of that ‘explanation’..

    • Stephanie Rodgers 9.2

      They’re attacking a fairly frivolous, comparatively-small amount of spending. It allows them to say ‘look, we attack National government spending too!’ and thus ‘prove’ that they’re independent and unbiased. This comes in handy when they’re later asked why they never criticise the huge wastefulness of the costs of flogging our assets, or the massive amount spent by Treasury on consultants, etc.

    • srylands 9.3

      There is nothing odd about it at all. I would not be providing financial support to the Taxpayers Union if it was partisan. It is not aligned with any political party:

      “The Taxpayers’ Union is 100 per cent politically independent. We are not affiliated with any political party and will never become a political party. ”


      Its objective is to promote fiscal responsibility. Indirectly it also promotes policies that protect the poor. It is the poor who get screwed by poor government.

      So – I am surprised that you are surprised.

      • bad12 9.3.1

        SSLands you wouldn’t be providing financial support to the Taxpayer’s Union if you were not a certifiable idiot of the worst kind…

      • phillip ure 9.3.2

        membership/donating-member numbers..?

        ..and who are the selected wealthy rightwingers who are paying for this..?

        ..funding what is essentially a rightwing attack-machine..?

        ..like i believe the bullshit williams spouts..

      • geoff 9.3.3

        It is the poor who get screwed by poor government.

        Good to know you think National are a poor government.
        Let’s work together to get rid of them!

  9. Morrissey 10

    Any movie makers out there?
    (Serious ones, that is: not that bearded fat creep in Wellington)

    Plot idea: 97 per cent of the world’s scientists contrive an environmental crisis, but are exposed by a plucky band of billionaires and oil companies.


    • North 10.1

      Morrissey………you’re too much. First good belly laugh of the day for me !

      Moving on to other matters. Russel Norman on The Nation with Potty G.

      “Have you ever smoked a joint ?” “Yes”.

      That’s it. A simple, no bullshit “Yes”.

      No no no hang on……..it was Gower doing the asking.

      Watching it the words “Have you……you prick ?” immediately sprang to my mind. Not Russel Norman though. Perfectly done. More impressive every day that man.

      My answer – “Nah……Morrissey, legally as yet, gives me all the giggles I need”.

      • phillip ure 10.1.1

        did you not think it more of note that he said that ending pot-prohibition would not be on their/his list of priorities..?

        ..and doesn’t that so much more bring into focus tureis’ criminal inaction on that medical marijuana bill..?


        ..and take note of this..

        ..should the internet party..

        ..(on personal-freedom/evidence-based/harm-reduction grounds..what they claim are the rationales underpinning all their policies..so..?..)

        ..should they come out with a sane/rational legalise/regulate/tax cannabis policy..

        ..they will hoover up many votes..

        ..and not a few of those votes will be lost to the greens..

        ..’cos that was their mandate..and they have not delivered to those who first got them into parliament..(their ingratitude has been epic..)..

        ..and norman now confirming that no..they won’t be doing anything about prohibition..

        ..that leaves a huge vacuum/opportunity..

        ..one that i am sure dotcom and his advisers/policy-makers will also see..

        ..and..they would be mad not to really..

        ..and it wd hardly be radical for the internet party to go hard on pot..

        ..as this link shows..just a day or so ago..the southern state in america deemed to be the most conservative state in america…

        ..unanimously passed what they are calling ‘cathys’ law’..authorising serious funding for research into the seizure-prevention qualities in cannabis..

        ..we are told both sides of the house chanted in unison:..’pass the law..!..pass the law..!’


        ..and this in the most conservative state in america..

        ..and meanwhile here in nz…?

        ..our green party hasn’t even got in anywhere on their to-do list..

        ..what is wrong with that picture..?

        ..it may be time for mr dotcom to step up to the bowl..

        ..and won’t a sane/rational pot-policy get that disenchanted youth motivated enough to go and vote..?


        ..it also puzzles me that the green party seems unable to see/understand this political-fact..

        ..i guess they are blinded by those bmw-badges..

        ..by their personal ambitions..

        ..how can this not be the case..

        ..and tho’ that rightwing green twerp who was interviewed..

        ..is/was wrong on so many levels..

        ..(especially in his craven self-serving during his time as candidate in epsom..)

        ..one thing he said cannot be contradicted..

        ..that is the insane pattern of the green party studiously ignoring where one third of the voters lie..

        ..from fitzsimons’ always just turning right at the airport exit..

        ..and driving to the coromandal..and was never seen in auckland..

        ..to former aucklanders norman and turei now in wellington and dunedin respectively..

        ..auckland is still clearly suffering from that benign neglect..

        ..one of them should be based in auckland..

        ..and part of their job being seen..

        ..at all ak has to offer each and every weekend..

        ..and their neglect is mirrored in their support here in ak..

        ..where their cote is much lower than in the rest of the country..

        ..the green party..putting the ‘belt’ in beltway..


  10. Good response from Hone and Mana

    “When so-called iwi leaders condemn teachers for daring to highlight the massive failings of the New Zealand education system for Maori children in case the Minister of Education might be embarrassed, then they show themselves up as a sad and pathetic group for whom the warm embrace of government has become more important than the needs of their own children and grandchildren.”

    …“I am gutted that people who purport to represent Maori people could be so bloody selfish and blind, and I urge them to face up to the realities and demand concrete action to eliminate child poverty in this land of enormous wealth.”


    Worth reading the whole press release imo

    • ianmac 11.1

      Good on yer Hone.

    • bad12 11.2

      Way to call it Hone, ‘the Iwi Leaders’ look way out of line barking their objections to legitimate protest,

      i suppose having the likes of Parata and Slippery the Prime Minister paying to fly them here and there along with the tongue bath of the major ‘Slurps’ dished out their way for the ongoing support of the current regime must make them feel ‘big’,

      Its sad to see ‘the leaders’ take the side of the Government while ignoring the plight of the worst off of their people, but,it’s happened befor and i dare say will happen again…

  11. Pasupial 12

    I wouldn’t go so far as to call this a happy ending, more a barely adequate resolution:

    The Dunedin City Council has paid $3900 for the leg irons Mayor Dave Cull pulled from an auction after an investigation he instigated confirmed they could have been used to restrain Maori political prisoners almost 150 years ago… Mr Cull said although the shackles were already Dunedin City Council property, it was easier to buy them from Mr McCormack than start legal proceedings… The North Island descendants and Otakou runanga would be consulted on the future of the shackles. ”They are still ours and we get the final call, but out of respect since it was their tupuna shackled up in the damn things, we will ask them what they would like to see happen to them.”


    Still no answers as to what happened to the other shackles that were there when these were stolen. Plus, with this precedent; it now seems to be open season on any historical artifact in Dunedin that can be swiped with 3 hacksaw blades or less.

    • Populuxe1 12.1

      They would appear to have rusted away. The obvious deteriation was the reason McCormack nicked them in the first place. Those caves should be made into a museum of this shameful and neglected episode of NZ history.

      • Pasupial 12.1.1

        I’m not convinced by the “rusted away” story – though do recall it from the initial auction article. I strongly suspect the remnants of those shackles are in private hands (perhaps those that looted them, or maybe not even still in the country). Toitu (the Otago settlers museum) was supposed to be in charge of the artifact investigation. Perhaps their examination of the historical site will yield further information?

        Reading between the lines, I’d say it was likely to be McCormack’s “late brother” who wanted to hold onto the things. It certainly seems likely that they were shown to others in the 40-odd years since since they were taken (and reconnected with a few links of train chain). But i doubt that an altruistic urge to arrest the artifact’s deterioration was the reason for them sawing their way into a locked cave.

        • Populuxe1

          I am only citing the answers they gave to the media, I do not claim to be able to do Vulcan mind melds.

  12. russel norman is currently doing serious damage to the green vote/support..

    ..on the nation..

    ..they will support deep-sea drilling..

    ..changing cannabis laws is not a priority..

    ..they will suppport fracking..

    ..they will vote to support a tpp-deal..


    ..they will be a total sellout..to everything that matters to those whose shoulders they stand on

    ..and all just for fucken ministerial roles…

    ..fucken hell..!


    ..why the fuck would anyone vote for them..?

    • marty mars 13.1

      Re the TPPA – how does what you have written above reconcile with this

      • phillip ure 13.1.1

        it totally contradicts it marty…

        ..and i guess i wd lean to the words out of normans’ mouth under questioning..

        ..that i just heard..

        ..that he may well vote for the tpp..

        ..than a promo-poster..

        ..which wd you believe..?

        • The Al1en

          “..they will vote to support a tpp-deal..”

          “..that he may well vote for the tpp..”

          “..that i just heard..”

          “..which wd you believe..?”

        • marty mars

          Phil – you are on a roll although I wish you weren’t 🙂

          The Greens could be part of a government that signs up to the controversial Trans Pacific Partnership trade agreement, co-leader Russel Norman has conceded.

          His comments on TV3’s The Nation this morning come ahead of nationwide marches against the TPP which are due to take place this afternoon.


          • weka

            Just watched the interview and this is closer to what Norman actually said “The TPP would have to change “very significantly” before the Greens would vote in favour of it.”

            Of course the GP could be part of a govt that does things that the GP disagrees with. How else can coalitions be formed?

            I’m not clear re the TPP, whether a house-wide vote is required, or whether they mean a decision within caucus. Does anyone know?

            Any good reason why the GP in govt can’t abstain on votes or vote against legislation act by act?

            • phillip ure


              ..and yr spin on the vote for fracking/deep-sea-drilling/no decrim of cannabis..?

              ..would love to see/hear how you will package that doozy-trio..

              • and seriously..!..one persons’ ‘significant-change’..

                ..is anothers’ s.f.a..

                “..Any good reason why the GP in govt can’t abstain on votes or vote against legislation act by act?..”

                ..no weka..they can’t..it’s called collective cabinet responsibilty..

                ..if they slide their arses into those bmw’s..

                ..they will have to vote for whatever piece of shit labour may throw up..

                ..and they can’t even speak out against it..

                ..how’s them berries..?

          • Murray Olsen

            Metiria Turei has posted this on Facebook:
            “Metiria Turei
            Don’t listen to Paddy Gower, he twists everything to what he wants to say not what is real. The Green Party opposes the TPPA. If we are in a govt with Labour it will be bec we have influence and we will use that influence over the TPPA as well as lots of other policies. We will have more influence if we have more votes so we need your Party Vote on September 20 to strengthen our arm in the negotiations. You have the power to influence the outcome on the TPPA and deep sea oil drilling. For the sake of our people and oceans, please use that power on September 20.”

            Given that we’ve all seen what wee Paddy can do, I believe her.

            • phillip ure

              i want to see her deny/promise the greens wd vote for the tpp..

              ..anything less is nothing…

              ..and just confirms that they wd..

              ..and how about the deep-sea-drilling/fracking/fuck pot-reform..?

              • Murray Olsen

                In that case you should get in touch and ask her. As unbelievable as most of us would find it, your posts and your blog may not be the first items on her list of “must reads” each day.

                • it’s not about me muzza..

                  ..it’s about the green party..


                  ..and i’m sure i wouldn’t be the only one seeking that (elusive) assurance..

                  ..you really have to pin lawyers down..

                  ..i find..

                  • Murray Olsen

                    Nah, with you, it’s always about you. You crave attention so much you have a Pete George like ability to settle for abuse and contempt. It’s about you so much that you expect that people will pay to read your blog. You have one of the largest and most undeserved egos I’ve ever come across. You misunderstand almost everything you read, then call others liars. Oh, it’s about you alright. You have a total inability to let it be about anything else.

    • geoff 13.2


      I just watched the vid.

      Basically, Norman said the Greens would be pragmatic in any post-election deals as they have been in every case in the past (excluding GMO). Meanwhile Gower was trying his damndest to put words in Russel’s mouth.

      What did you expect Russel to say, Phil?
      “I’m not going to compromise on anything!”???

      Can’t wait for the spun version of the interview from Gower on TV3 tonight.

      • newsense 13.2.1

        As Norman says:

        “Well, no, Paddy- you can paraphrase it like that, but..”

      • phillip ure 13.2.2

        “..What did you expect Russel to say, Phil?
        “I’m not going to compromise on anything!”???

        ..maybe not..

        ‘i’m going to compromise on everything’


        ..i mean..why would you bother voting for them..

        ..if they are just fucken labour-lite..?

        • geoff

          Did he say he was going to compromise on everything?

          No he did not.

          He was realistic that whatever they could achieve would be dependent on their party vote. At one point I think he actually implored the viewer to vote Green so they would have more bargaining power post-election.

          He wasn’t going to be drawn into a crystal-ball session just because Gower wanted him to say something he could hang him on.

          • George

            “Greens opposition to TPP remains. Our ability to deliver on this position, and others, in any post election negotiations depends on our vote”

            Doorknocking for the party of David Cunliffe and Phil Goff won’t guarantee opposition to the TPP.

            • geoff

              I hope that Labour changes their position on TPP. I’m hoping that their position is really just Goff’s position and that Labour will change that in the near future.

              They look foolish and untrustworthy to bang on about neoliberalism and then still support TPP.

          • phillip ure

            @ geoff..

            “..Did he say he was going to compromise on everything?

            No he did not…”

            ..yes he did..

            ‘we have no bottom-lines..’

            ..w.t.f does that mean..if not that..?

            • geoff

              Tell me what minute in the video he utters the words “I’m going to compromise on everything”

        • North

          Yeah OK Phil – welcome to ShonKey Python, then the Milky Bar Crud, then the poncey wee Simon Bridges, then some entitled little Young Nationals git who right now is still at Kings College – as our prime ministers from here until 20 years hence.

          You’re reminding me of the virgin who while aching to get into it absolutely won’t get into it for fear that it won’t be perfect straight off and it might be messy. And fuck’n moaning about the lack of it. Lighten up for fuck’s sake.

          Russel Norman/Metiria Turei/all the Greens are light years more real and gifted than ShonKey Python and his band of venal, mainchance sociopaths. They’ve been the only real opposition to the sociopaths for at least the past three years Phil ! Give them a little bit of credit man. Instead of being insufferably impeccable all the time. Grizzling old virgin you.

          I’m not a Greenie either. Renewed my MANA Movement membership just the other day. Shit it felt good !

      • Jim Nald 13.2.3

        Meteria in Auckland for the TPPA demo today.

        Can folks on The Standard pool information about which of our Member of Parliaments were speaking or standing with the people at the 16 locations this afternoon?

        Quite obviously, Natz puppets would be safely tucked away in their corporate cupboards.

        Greens have been very visible all round the country, I understand.

        Were any Labour MPs or candidates out and about, and where?

        • phillip ure

          cunnliffe was booed in ak..(over his weaseling around tpp….)

          ..he was the only labour person i saw..

          ..and a clutch of greens..were present….

          (i saw roche/turei/graham..

          ..i actually complimented graham on the death-stare he employs/deploys in parliament..)

          • Jim Nald

            Cheers, phillip ure.

            And, thanks to Poission for pointing out the press release from NZF which is clear and says:

            “New Zealand First MPs will take part in the national day of action against the TPP.”

            Can someone explain Labour’s penultimate paragraph with the specific reference to two weeks: https://www.labour.org.nz/tppa ?

            • Olwyn

              I would like to see that explained too. I hope it is a typo – if it is not it is an insult to our intelligence.

        • lprent

          Was hard to see in Auckland
          David Cunliffe (Labour).
          Asenati Lole-Taylor (NZ First)

  13. I don’t have to spin anything, especially you making contradictory statements in the space of two posts, that’s plain to see by all.

    I’ll wear your pedant medal like I wear the chuckle at your disingenuous perception.

    For the record, I’m watching the replay of the nation and Norman explicitly said he was against deep sea drilling… That’s strike one.

    On the tpp about whether the Green party could vote for the tpp he said, “it could potentially, but it depends” [on the size of the green vote and what the tpp contains]. Strike two

    • he says he will vote for them..

      ..take the cloth out of yr ears..

      ..you can’t polish a turd..

      ..no matter how hard you try..

      • bad12 14.1.1

        Are you doing that ‘puppy thing’ again Phillip, must have a look at the Nation replay tomorrow to see if what you seen is what you seen…

      • The Al1en 14.1.2

        I can only repeat what I’ve just seen and heard, but it does differ from what you’ve stated, well the first time any way. The second time, when you said “he may well vote for the tpp” you got it correct.

        Most rational folk will agree that Norman’s main thrust was the more votes the Green party gets, the stronger it’s negotiating position, and thus more party policy makes it to the statute book.
        I’m happy to disagree, but certain those more qualified and invested in Green politics than I, can explain it to you.

    • Pasupial 14.2

      I don’t have TV reception, and can’t see any online clips yet on the TV3 site of Norman’s Nation interview. However, I am more inclined to regard The Allen’s summary as the accurate one. I guess I’ll have to wait until after tomorrow to know for sure.

      It does seem contradictory for the Green Party to both support today’s anti-TPPA rally, but on the same day have their co-leader state that he’ll vote for it.

      • phillip ure 14.2.1

        “..It does seem contradictory for the Green Party to both support today’s anti-TPPA rally, but on the same day have their co-leader state that he’ll vote for it…”

        doesn’t it..?

        ..you could call this the exposing the inherent contradictions interview for norman..

        ..and i guess..like allen..you will see/read/believe what you want to see/read/believe..

        ..but i don’t think i will be the only one making that call on normans’ revelations..

        ..if i were an old skool green party supporter..

        ..i wd be feeling a bit gutted by this..

        ..and as i am..i am..

        ..what the fuck have they done to ‘my’ party..?

        • The Al1en

          ” i guess..like allen..you will see/read/believe what you want to see/read/believe”

          That’s The Al1en to you, and a little irony lol for fun 😆

          Have a nice day Mr Ure.

          • marty mars

            Isn’t that the same as rerecording your songs without the electronic voice?

            woops should be for the comment below – sorry

            • The Al1en

              I don’t see how, the caveat on my music page clearly states I can’t sing or play, and I do advise the listener have cotton buds and bleach close to hand, just in case they need to rinse their ears.

              Likewise I’m sure the Greens aren’t trying to con anyone out of a vote by becoming seriously electable and using the tools at their disposal to put forward their message. It’s not a sin or crime or double standard, just like Dylan using an electric guitar wasn’t a sell out or a bad thing.
              But the Greens are doing well as a 15% party vote shows. They can sing there own tunes, with or without electronic aid, I don’t mind 😉

        • The Al1en

          “If I were an old school green party supporter I would be feeling a bit gutted by this, and as I am, I am. What the fuck have they done to ‘my’ party?”

          The edit is mine, as a little Saturday gift 😉

          To answer, I think what they have done is make the party much more electable to a wider section of the electorate.
          It’s still my intention to give them my party vote in September, and I’ve seen or heard nothing from them that has caused me to contemplate changing my mind. The party looks to be in good shape, based on sound principles, headed by professional, dedicated mps.
          Who could want more from a left of centre party than an electable, credible partner in government shaping the direction of a still ‘wonky’ Labour party?

      • marty mars 14.2.2

        sounds like John Minto spoke well about Mana and the kaupapa on TV – will try and catch it online tomorrow.

        • phillip ure

          minto kicked arse..

          ..and manas’ mana is rising moment by moment..

          ..it is fast becoming clear that they are the only party for serious change..

          ..the greens have become just another same-old same-old party..

          ..maybe they should go for a colour/name change..

          ..how about the beige-party..?

          • phillip ure

            tve has a basic language/comprehension-fail..

            ..they are interpreting minto saying ‘there is no deal on the table’..

            ..as minto saying no-deal outright..

            ..whereas minto actually listed what is ok about i.p policies..

            ..and that mana is waiting to see the social-policies..

            ..’deal on the table’..means deal ready to be signed..

            ..how can they be such fucken morons..?

      • weka 14.2.3

        “It does seem contradictory for the Green Party to both support today’s anti-TPPA rally, but on the same day have their co-leader state that he’ll vote for it.”

        It would indeed if Norman had said that, but he didn’t. What he said was that the agreement would have to change hugely for the GP to support it. He also didn’t say that he or the GP will support deep sea oil drilling or fracking. Nor did he say that legalising cannabis isn’t a priority. It was actually Gower that said the first two things and phil that said the third thing. I think The Al1en’s summation above is pretty good, and here is the link for those that can watch it online


        • phillip ure

          haha..!..hilarious..!..there weka..

          ..so norman actually said no..we wont vote for tpp..

          ..and..we will vote agaimst deep-sea-drilling..

          ..and we will vote against fracking..

          ..and we will fight for pot-decrim:..’it’s on our list’..


          ..right ho..!

          ..carry on..!

          • weka

            No he didn’t say those things either, and I didn’t say he did. You really do have trouble with comprehension phil. All I have done is watch the video and point out that your portrayal was quite inaccurate. I’m not the only one that has done that.

        • Poission

          NZ first is both supporting the protest and calling for increased transparency.


        • Ergo Robertina

          Norman confirmed there were no bottom lines for the Green Party to support a Labour-led government.
          Unlike genetically engineered organisms in 2002, the TPPA is not a bottom line for the Green Party in 2014. Whatever else he says, this is the pertinent point.
          He also said he did not think legalising cannabis would be on the party’s key priority list in post election negotiations.
          They’re valid questions, because this once radical party may be on the brink of holding ministerial posts.
          As Sue Bradford suggested in the panel discussion afterwards, the party has changed and is now focused on the centre vote, and more willing to compromise.
          Having said that, Gower needs to broaden his question base from bottom lines, it’s tiresome.

        • Murray Olsen

          Surprisingly, Phil is completely wrong. Russel Norman explicitly says the Greens are against deep sea drilling and fracking, and support the decriminalisation of cannabis. Gower tries hard to push him into a corner, but is not successful.

          What he says about the actions of a government in which the Greens might play a part is quite reasonable. They will fight for their policies and how successful they are will depend on the weight of seats. From his point of view, it would be irresponsible to say much more than this.

          • Ergo Robertina

            No-one is claiming the Greens will actively support policies against their core principles, just that they are not making them bottom lines in terms of giving support to Labour to form a government. There is a difference. Sue Bradford on the panel afterwards said that if she was a Green member, she would be worried by the extent to which the party has moved to the centre. She said she was surprised by some of Norman’s answers. Everyone knows politics is about compromise, but people have a right to feel disappointed if it’s a core issue for them, surely.

            • weka

              “Everyone knows politics is about compromise, but people have a right to feel disappointed if it’s a core issue for them, surely.”

              I’ve lived in NZ for nearly 50 years and I’ve never had a govt or political party who met my expectations. I don’t really know why people on the outside of the bell curve expect things to be the way they want. I thought the point of being on the edge was to lead the way. The GP have been doing that for a long time. It’s now time for them to step into the responsibility they’ve been working for and that means being mainstream. There will have to be compromises, but I don’t see any problem with what they have done to date. Once the GP gain govt, I expect to be thoroughly pissed off with them within the decade, but I completely support the move they are making in that direction now. The best thing about that TV3 piece was Fitzimmons saying how not having cabinet posts worked in their favour and for the betterment of the country. The point there isn’t that staying outside of govt is best, but that the GP plays the game smart. They still are, it’s just that smart is a different strategy now. She also said that it was more important back then for them to build the GP long term. I feel such gratitude to her and those other GP workers right now, because that foresight and hard work is about to pay off.

              Yes people can feel disappointed, but then they start slagging off the GP by misrepresenting what the GP is doing then they can expect to be called on it.

          • phillip ure

            @ olsen..now you are just fucken outright lying..

            ..norman said pot was not on their to-do list..

            ..w.t.f.was unclear about that..?

            .and he also admitted to being ready to comprimise on all those key issues..

            ..i repeat..w.t.f.was unclear about that..?

            • Murray Olsen

              People can listen to it for themselves. He said decriminalisation woudn’t be on the top 10 issues. Anyone who hadn’t rotted their brain cells past the ability to write a coherent sentence, let alone understand one, would be able to see that.

              • weka


                It’s you that is outright lying phil. Decriminilising cannabis is still GP policy. Before the election they will name their top ten issues so that people will know what will be the key areas on the table for post-election negotiations, and Norman expects that cannabis won’t be on that list. But that is completely different than saying it’s not on their to do list.

                • the logic/faith you display there weka..

                  ..is worthy of something or other..

                  “.. Norman expects that cannabis won’t be on that list.

                  But that is completely different than saying it’s not on their to do list..”

                  fucken brilliant..!

                  ..should i have called it their:..’might possibly think about at some time in the dim/dark/distant future list’..?

                  ..would that ease yr unease..?

                  ..fuck..!..yr funny..!

                  (and chrs 4 the early-morning belly-laughs..!..eh..?)

                  .and i am sure those fighting for an end to the evils of prohibition..

                  ..will be both calmed and reassured by yr words..eh..?

                  ..’rejoice..!..rejoice..!..it is still on a list..somewhere..’

                  • and i’m telling ya..warning ya..

                    ..that should the internet party come out with a sane/colorado-model policy to legalise/regulate/tax pot..

                    ..that sucking sound you will hear will be a disturbing number of yr longterm voters..

                    ..pulling away their support for you..

                    ..don’t say you haven’t been fucken warned..eh..?

                    • felix

                      That’s probably true.

                      And unfortunate, because the IP are not going to find themselves in any position to negotiate legalisation.

                      And those voters are going to be super pissed off when they figure that out post-election.

                  • felix

                    phil, there’s a difference between a list of stuff you want to do and a list of stuff you think you can do given your circumstances.

                    • correct..

                      .and they have pot on their can’t do list..

                      ..yr point..?

                    • felix

                      Just the bleeding obvious. The Greens know that pushing legalisation will get them nowhere given their current circumstances.

                      Thing about circumstances is they change.

                    • d’you know how far we are lagging behind the most conservative/southern states in america..on this issue..?

                      ..i repeat..’the most conservative/southern states’..

                      ..and all of yr protestations/pin-head-dancing to one side..

                      ..the facts/perceptions still stand..

                      ..and if dotcom comes out with a sane pot policy..

                      ..the green party will lose an (unquantifiable) number of votes..

                      ..to the internet party..

                      ..spin that fact how you like..

                    • weka

                      “.and they have pot on their can’t do list..”

                      No they fucking don’t. They think that there are at least 10 other issues more important to be dealing with as a priority this election (actually, we don’t know, because the GP hasn’t named that list of ten yet, Norman just said he doubted cannabis would be on it). Most GP voters will agree with that (and most NZers).

                      There is nothing to stop GP members or MPs advancing the cause of legalising cannabis in the next electoral cycle. What are you doing to help them phil?

                    • weka

                      “phil, there’s a difference between a list of stuff you want to do and a list of stuff you think you can do given your circumstances.”

                      Indeed, but I’ll just point out that all Norman said was that he doubted that cannabis decriminalisation would be in the top ten. He didn’t say it wasn’t going to be worked on, and in fact reasserted that decriminalisation is still GP policy.

                      Even if the GP were polling higher than Labour, I doubt that they would consider decriminalising cannabis as in the top ten (they might, it’s up to the party, not Norman). There are many urgent issues out there. Will be interesting to see what the top ten are this year.

                  • weka

                    Phil, all I am asking of you is some intellectual honesty. You are misrepresenting Norman’s words to suit your own agenda. Puts you in the same bracket as Gower. That’s up to you, but when it distorts the political discussion, that makes it other people’s business.

        • Pasupial


          Thanks for the link. PU seems to have manned the barricades on this one, but Norman is no more pro-TPP than he is pro-deep sea drilling. No contradiction.

          Too much time spent on David Hay in the preamble though, why is he so keen to be where he’s not wanted? And there were a few points where one might validly criticise Norman’s performance; fortunately PU and Gower seem to have missed them entirely.

          • weka

            Yeah, I thought the focus on Hay was ott (thankfully the guy seems to have gotten the message now). Am curious as to the points you where might criticise Norman’s performance.

  14. btw..porridge-recipie update:..

    ..i have come to the conclusion that both pear and (chopped up) dates are essential-ingredients..

    ..if seeking that transcendental-porridge-experience..

    ..my taste-buds are currently cossack-dancing all around my mouth..

    ..i have a serious afterglow going on..

  15. greywarbler 16

    Chris Trotter had a think about the Te Kohanga Reo and Maori TV situations that have been in the news lately.
    His comments on Maori direction seem to fit what I observe.

    …the next big challenge facing Maori. Either the gains of renaissance and revolution will be captured by an increasingly authoritarian and self-protective Maori middle-class, or they will be extended to all Maori people – especially those young Maori trapped in the poverty-racked and crime-ridden ghettoes of major cities.

    The Kohanga Reo scandal (itself the result of young journalists from Maori Television’s `Native Affairs’ refusing to be intimidated by the trust board’s networks of patronage and protection) is, therefore, much more than an issue for Maori to sort out on their own.

    The fruits of renaissance and revolution in Aotearoa-New Zealand cannot be secured for Maori in the face of Pakeha indifference.

    • Populuxe1 16.1

      Looking at the Maori Party and the behaviour exhibited by many iwi following treaty payouts and the still deplorable situations of many young urban Maori, one doesn’t need to be Nostradamus to work that one out.

  16. Ergo Robertina 17

    Film-maker Ken Loach argues in the Guardian this week that Labour is part of the problem, not the solution.
    It’s worth a read and applies equally in NZ; no party’s tapping into fragmented and various social causes and protest movements. The surge of enthusiasm we saw last year in the unions and to an extent the electorate for Cunliffe was in my view expressing hope of a new left movement. My fear is that if Labour loses this election the right of the party will firmly take control, under the phony pretext that the electorate rejected the move to the left, which never eventuated as Cunliffe turned out to be business as usual.

    From Loach’s piece:

    ‘We know that housing support goes to rich landlords, that benefits for the working poor subsidise employers who pay poverty wages. We read that benefit fraud is a tiny fraction of the overall welfare budget, far less than unclaimed benefits, and is nothing compared to the amount lost through tax dodging. But as we rail against the injustice and hypocrisy, we fail to ask one big question. Where is our political fightback? It should be led by the Labour party but therein lies the problem.
    The coalition parties proclaim the importance of the market economy. So does Labour. The coalition cuts back on public enterprise and prioritises the interests of big corporations and private companies. So did the last Labour government. Whenever workers organise to defend jobs, wages or conditions, who supports them? Not Ed Miliband or other Labour leaders.’

    • Draco T Bastard 17.1

      The coalition parties proclaim the importance of the market economy. So does Labour.

      And therein lies the problem. Labour refuses to accept that the free-market dogma that they saddled us with in the 1980s is the problem and thus Labour remain part of the problem and not the solution.

      • greywarbler 17.1.1

        Good comment worth reading – here are some bits of gold from Ken Loach leftunity article.

        Labour’s rhetoric may be softer than the Tories’, but its fundamental stance is limited by the same imperative: profit comes before all else. Can the Labour party be reclaimed? Or, rather, made anew into one that will represent the interests of the people?

        History suggests it cannot. The high-water mark of 1945 is long gone. The many great achievements of that government have largely been dismantled, either with the collusion of Labour or directly by the party when it has been in power. The Labour left has all but disappeared, and even Tony Benn’s voice is now sadly silent. A Miliband government will not reverse any of the privatisations in the health service or elsewhere. It will not take the railways back into public ownership – despite the popularity of such a move – or even reclaim Royal Mail…….

        The Labour manifesto of 1945 would be a better inspiration. It promised “a socialist party and proud of it. Its ultimate purpose … is the establishment of the socialist commonwealth, free, democratic, efficient, progressive, public-spirited, its material resources organised in the service of the … people”.

        A new party must be democratic, principled and properly organised. It needs an analysis of contemporary politics with a set of immediate demands: an industrial strategy to create green jobs, a statutory living wage, a public housing programme and a cap on private rents, an end to all privatisation in the health service.

        Left Unity has a conference in Manchester on Saturday (29 March). Visit http://www.leftunity.org

    • greywarbler 17.2

      Thanks E.R. for the link. Got to keep chewing on this bone.

  17. lprent 18

    Tamati Coffey selected as labour candidate in rotorua.

  18. geoff 19

    Here’s more evidence that National’s anti-Internet-Party blitzkrieg is partly motivated by the fear that dotcom may get more votes than the MSM suspect.


    Key is really trying to drive home the Kim dotCom = Nazi meme.

    Their efforts may well be counter productive.

    In this vid (about 4mins in):

    Keith Locke talks about how National’s attempts to paint the Greens as extremists backfired and contributed to them breaking the 5% threshold to get into parliament.

    Perhaps the same could occur with the Internet Party.

  19. swordfish 20

    Just wanted to acknowledge the recent deaths of two important Wellington progressives:

    Today’s Dominion Post included an obituary for trade unionist, feminist and activist, Viv Walker. Viv’s agenda “was not to get more women into the board rooms of CEO’s offices; it was to get rights for the women who cleaned the boardrooms and corporate offices.” She was active in the anti-apartheid and feminist movements and it’s typical of the modesty and humility of people like Viv that she left instructions that no-one was to make her into a hero at her funeral – she wanted to be seen as ordinary.
    (Brilliant but self-depreciating activists like Viv are worth a thousand Helen Clarks and other status-seeking, power-hungry upper-middle class liberal elites in my opinion. She’s one of the true heros, even if she denied as much).

    In January, long-time and legendary Victoria University Political Scientist, Les Cleveland , died (aged 92). He had a highly colourful life, fought as a member of the 2NZEF in the Pacific and Italy in WWII (a keen moutaineer, he scaled Mt Blanc as part of his own post-WWII victory celebration), a poet, singer/song-writer, authority on wartime songs, press gallery journalist, photographer, short-story writer and folklorist. Cleveland was also a long-time protester, as a relatively recent Dominion Post obituary put it: “there was an unashamed, generous, subversive side to this left-wing lifetime supporter of Michael Joseph Savage’s welfare state.”

    Two great progressives who deserve recognition.

    • greywarbler 20.1

      Thanks swordfish. I like this comment on Les Cleveland –
      “there was an unashamed, generous, subversive side to this left-wing lifetime supporter of Michael Joseph Savage’s welfare state.”

      If all Labour had had that deeply embedded then we wouldn’t have lost Savage’s commitment to people and had it replaced by devotion to The People, The Party and to maintaining the Left idea in politics and unions, rather than the Left ideal.

  20. jaymam 21

    I regret to inform you that you have all forgotten about Earth Hour, which finished 10 minutes ago. Does nobody care about the Earth any more?

  21. joe90 22

    What’s not to like about a study that says medical marijuana’s legalization may lead to lower crime rates.


    Press release:

    “We’re cautious about saying, ‘Medical marijuana laws definitely reduce homicide.’ That’s not what we’re saying,” Morris said. “The main finding is that we found no increase in crime rates resulting from medical marijuana legalization. In fact, we found some evidence of decreasing rates of some types of violent crime, namely homicide and assault.

  22. Populuxe1 23

    Bombast Bradbury desperately defensive that his Dotcom/MANA deal has fallen through and is now impossible.


  23. Hazel 24

    my comment is ,just to ask you why any body like my self who has spoken out about an issue that I feel needs a public discussion and has affected my whole adult life , find my self ignored should feel ok with democracy as it is . .five years is a long time to wait and if others have been brushed aside as I have been then all is lost . there is no longer any interest in what others who want my vote have too say yet again I will throw my vote away on a minor party .

  24. Populuxe1 25

    Why would anyone who believes in socialist principles vote for a charicature of capitalist greed, consumption and excess like Dotcom anyway?

    • felix 25.1

      I don’t imagine anyone who believes in socialist principles ever would.

      • Populuxe1 25.1.1

        Then as per usual you have not been paying attention, you irredeemable tosser

        • felix

          Sure. I guess you can demonstrate this somehow, perhaps some links to a few lefties/socialists saying they’ll vote for Dotcom.

          Otherwise it’s all in your imagination. As usual.

    • greywarbler 25.2

      Question Why pay attention to Dotcom.
      Answer Because this is a political stage and all of us merely players: –

      And now he is on our side. Why can’t we accept what could be a helping hand when we are stretched. Get real Pop. And don’t waste your venom on left supporters. We may be lesser beings to yourself but we have our uses.

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