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Open mike 29/07/2016

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, July 29th, 2016 - 68 comments
Categories: open mike - Tags:

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68 comments on “Open mike 29/07/2016 ”

  1. Garibaldi 1

    A must read over on the Daily Blog. Go to ” the horror of Turkey” and scroll down to Slippery’s comment.

    http://thedailyblog.co.nz/2016/07/27/the-horror-of-turkey/#comment-346502

    [lprent: Try using links. Right click on the date of the comment and copying the link. Then paste it here. You will get the link above. ]

    • rhinocrates 1.1

      Scrolling further down, I see that (as far as I can tell with their tortured grammar) Slippery believes that the Sandy Hook shootings and Boston Marathon bombing were “theatre”.

      It looks like buying shares in aluminium foil manufacturers will be a good investment.

      • weston 1.1.1

        Hate to sound like im wearing one rino but have you seen and heard the facts of sandy hook ? theres some very wierd stuff gone down there even taking into account the imput from the more dedicated conspiracy theorists and the fact america is a wierd place anyway for example didnt you find it strange that the parents wernt allowed to see the bodies of their slain children ??

  2. RTM 2

    Donald Trump’s presidential campaign has made white nationalism fashionable. But the notion of white identity is based not only on bigotry but on pseudo-history: http://readingthemaps.blogspot.co.nz/2016/07/kendrick-smithymans-rebuke-to-trump.html

    • tc 2.1

      Like Farage found it’s an easily held core of support.

      Angry, racist, looking for someone to blame with negligible critical thought process so a few slogans and some passionate rhetoric gets them on board.

      Like Farage, trumps unlikely to have to deal with the consequences either.

    • Awesome Scott thanks

  3. DH 3

    Has anyone else noticed what appears to be a deliberate propaganda campaign from the press on housing? These insulting ‘anyone can buy a house if they work hard’ articles have been appearing at regular intervals for quite some time in both major ‘papers. They’re patently misleading to the extent it can’t be just poor research IMO.

    Stuff ran this one a week ago;

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/82318579/Anyone-can-buy-a-house-in-four-years-broker-says

    Now this one…

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/life-style/home-property/82571726/wellington-man-becomes-home-owner-at-21-after-saving-since-he-was-7

    The observant will have noticed these articles are puff pieces that don’t fit the stories, they fail to reveal that the house buyer received financial assistance from another party(s). The real message in most of them is that if you don’t have a sugar daddy you’ll not be able to buy a house but they cynically invert that to say the opposite.

    • Sabine 3.1

      the twenty one year old wellingtonians started saving for his house at 7 years old? Or did his parents start.

      I actually have nothing against this. I often wonder why parents don’t start a savings account for their kids immediately after birth. Put in 5 bucks a week/month and by the time the kids are of age they have a bit of cash there. This however demands some discipline from the parents to not touch the money if the need arises.

      In saying that, getting a mortgage is one thing, being able to then to service it without fault is another thing altogether.
      So by the time then man is 35 he may have lost a job, has married and has a child with special needs, has had an accident that left him or his wife with special needs and voila…….he may loose his house.

      This is what annoys me about the house porn in the Herald, the easiest thing is getting the mortgage, its the keeping up with the payments, rates, insurance, and upkeep of the property that kills many especially in times of no job security, climate change, etc etc etc. What looked feasible when signing up to it may turn out to be impossible ten years later.

      • DH 3.1.1

        Sabine the general idea is to critique the story, first against what you know and then ask a few pertinent questions from what the story doesn’t say but should.

        For starters a student on a low income would not get a mortgage of that size by himself, the banks require you have an income commensurate with the size of the mortgage. Then there’s the fact the ‘house’ was quoted as a “two-flat property” and mentioned a friend as a partner. It’s a fair bet the partner had the financial resources to clinch the deal and I can’t see how that translates into this guy buying his own house.

        • Sabine 3.1.1.1

          What i am trying to say is that in terms of commitment over the years getting a deposit together may be the easiest thing. Its the thirty years + of paying that mortgage off where one has not much control over.

          So one can get help form parents, may have an inheritance form a grand parent, may team up with half a dozen of mates etc etc etc and eventually scrapes together the requirements of the bank and gets the mortgage, but then that mortgage needs to be paid. Another 30 years of negotiation ahead, this time with the family (what are needs what are wants), the business friends (are they still friend friend or do you need to pay them out), divorce can kill the house dream for ever, sickness, unemployment etc etc etc.

          But as i have stated on other such stories is simply that the Guy has not bought a house, he has bought a mortgage and until that mortgage is paid in full he has no house, the bank has. He only has an arse full of debt and a very uncertain future ahead re climate change, changing work conditions, diminishing social net etc etc.
          so maybe some of the young today really do only see their going ahead on the back of a mortgage.

          • DH 3.1.1.1.1

            The deposit isn’t the easiest part Sabine, that’s what prevents most low income people from buying their own home.

            The formula with property is pretty consistent; the difference between rent and mortgage is roughly what you can save for the deposit. Once you buy you can stop saving and put the dosh towards the mortgage which itself is saving.

            The main problem people have today is that inflation on deposits and mortgages is higher than wage inflation so they can’t catch up.

            This guy didn’t really save a deposit, it looks more like he chipped in on a business deal. The article is dishonest IMO.

            • Sabine 3.1.1.1.1.1

              DH, i am speaking generally. Not only for poor people.
              Poor people should have access to a government loan as Paula Bennett had.

              I am speaking of Joe and Jane Ordinary New Zealanders.

              As for people now buying houses together with the option of selling it later on in order to raise a deposit to then buy their own mortgage.

              • DH

                I’m afraid I can’t see your point Sabine. Mine was that the press appear to be running a deliberate misinformation campaign. The article was written for a reason and it carries a message, my view was the message is false and deliberately so.

                It’s interesting reading the comments on that last story. Clearly few people actually read the article through, most seemed to have absorbed the headline & the jerking knee may have stopped them reading further.

                • dv

                  OK he saved 40k. That is note worthy and well done.
                  BUT there is no way he would be able to borrow 500k (gv of 640k on a minimal odd job income.
                  Some one has guaranteed the loan.
                  He worked on his parents farm.

                  Mort ca $2000 per month

                  • DH

                    Yes. There’s also other clues in the article that suggest the picture the paper is painting, ie all it takes is hard work & saving to buy a house, is pure fabrication.

                    I’d question why they’re doing these regular articles, I’ve read at least a dozen from both major dailies that all convey the same false message. How did they get this guys (non) story in the first place?

                    • McFlock

                      I suspect it’s real estate agents paying a pr firm. As soon as the market cools off there will be a sharp drop in estate agents’ incomes.

                      As long as they can hold off government intervention, the more money they can fleece out of NZ and overseas speculators.

                      Anyone buying a first home right now is in serious danger of going under water if the government does anything effective about the home shortage.

                    • DH

                      I suspect you’re right on the money there McFlock, the RE industry must spend a fortune on advertising in the ‘papers & probably demand their pound of flesh in return.

                      Having recently been down the track of saving for a house and trying to get a mortgage I find these puff pieces insulting and infuriating.

                    • Graeme

                      Yeah, these puff pieces are another sign that the market is getting jitterey. The industry is resorting to spin and bullshit to try and maintain market confidence.

                      Because that’s what it’s all about, confidence that there will be a buyer there tomorrow who will pay more than you paid yesterday.

                      Yes, it’s all a big confidence game

                    • Robertina

                      DH; depends whether you think the media’s job is to reflect or challenge society. If the former, then I’d say that story is a reflection of a rundown deluded market economy.
                      To suggest that money changed hands in order to run the story is a little idiotic.
                      The yarn reflects the commercial zeitgeist, sadly.
                      And a dozen stories from both major dailies over the past few years of the asset credit boom is tiny, given that the proportion of stories now that deal with the housing market is significant. It’s in the news in some form every day.

                    • DH

                      No-one has said money changed hands to run the story Robertina, you assumed that and incorrectly so. The suggestion was that advertisers who spend big money have some influence over the publisher.

                      A job of the media is to ensure a reasonable semblance of balance in their reporting. With these articles they’re failing to do so and the imbalance is so obvious it appears to be deliberate misinformation.

                    • Robertina

                      You need to read the thread again. The suggestion was that a PR firm was paid to plant the story and you agreed with that suggestion.

                    • DH

                      One of us has read it wrong then Robertina. McFlock’s post was made as a reply to mine in which I asked the question of how the press found out about the guy buying the house.

                      In that context I took her/his comment to mean a PR firm may have been engaged to find such feelgood stories and feed them to the press. That doesn’t suggest money changed hands to actually run the story.

                    • Robertina

                      Well, you also suggested RE companies demanded a pound of flesh in demand for ad spend, as well as agreeing with McFlock that a PR agency was likely paid to plant stories.
                      No doubt you mean well. But it’s no different from righties whinging about the likes of the substandard unconsented rentals series on Newshub.
                      And a series with follow ups like the one on Newshub has way more impact than a one-off yarn.

                    • McFlock

                      Oh, I don’t think the paper was bribed to print the story.

                      Not every paper is like the one I know of that, when informed of a small cultural group’s anniversary, offered to do a puff piece if the group bought some advertising space.

                      But the recent flurry of good news stories that roll the property bubble in glitter is an interesting phenomenon which I doubt has occurred spontaneously.

  4. Observer Tokoroa 4

    .
    .How did we get here !
    To those who Love New Zealand
    .
    There is only one message to be noted from this past 8 years in New Zealand.

    That is, this Government and its supporters have Shipwrecked Finance; Housing; Rentals; Assets and Morals (mostly dishonesty but also corruption and cronyism).

    They are the worst ever managers of a once fine Nation.

    The managers are: Nationals, Act, Maori Party, United Future.
    .
    A toxic Lot of bad Managers – with a ragtail of supporters who could have saved NZ from the havoc.
    .

    • Draco T Bastard 4.1

      There is only one message to be noted from this past 8 years in New Zealand.

      That is, this Government and its supporters have Shipwrecked Finance; Housing; Rentals; Assets and Morals (mostly dishonesty but also corruption and cronyism).

      It’s not just over the last 8 years but the last thirty. It just happens that it’s got a lot worse over the last 8 years.

  5. save nz 5

    Breaking news, Bernie has left the democrats!!!

    • Sabine 5.1

      good. He was elected as an independent, he should have stayed an independent all along. If he would have run as an independent we would not have the current mess in the States as he would have won the election down pat.

      In saying that, he can give Hillary a good time going to the social democratic left that the US needs and want.

      • save nz 5.1.1

        Well that throws a spanner in the works for the Democrats. Maybe they should have been more compromising on policy to retain Bernie… instead of their big gamble, Bernie will fall into line and kow tow to bankers and Wall St and abandon his ideals…

        • Sabine 5.1.1.1

          I actually think it is the best that could happen to the Democratic Party. Sometimes people have to be dragged into the right direction, no matter how much the kick and scream.

          There are some really big elections coming up re Senate and Congress. Bernie Sanders will have his work cut out for him. And his supporters too if they still want to change the system.

    • joe90 5.2

      Meanwhile, Snopes –

      Claim: Sen. Bernie Sanders left the Democratic Party during the DNC (possibly as part of the #Demexit protest).
      mostly false

      WHAT’S TRUE: Sen. Bernie Sanders told reporters that when he returns to the Senate, it will be as an Independent; Sanders was elected as an Independent.

      WHAT’S FALSE: Sanders did not formally “leave” the Democratic Party, nor did he do so in protest.

      […]

      The story made it sound as though Sanders had left the party in protest over “DNCLeaks,” which revealed that the Democratic National Committee apparently worked to sabotage his candidacy. A 26 July 2016 Wall Street Journal story provided more context:

      Bernie Sanders said he plans to return to the Senate as an independent, despite winning 13 million votes in the Democratic Party’s presidential primary contest.

      “I was elected as an independent; I’ll stay two years more as an independent,” Mr. Sanders said.

      Speaking at the Bloomberg Politics breakfast on Tuesday, Mr. Sanders also said the resignation of Debbie Wasserman Schultz as chairwoman of the Democratic National Committee doesn’t go far enough in fixing the situation and that more staff members need to leave following embarrassing disclosures of thousands of internal emails.

      “We need a DNC which has as very different direction,” he said. “I honestly don’t know many of the people there. But my guess is we’re going to need new leadership, a new direction and new personnel.”

      Asked after the event whether Mr. Sanders considers himself a Democrat or an independent, a campaign aide said, “He ran for president as a Democrat but was elected to a six-year term in the Senate as an independent.”

      So while it’s true Sanders was returning to his Senate seat as an Independent, it is not true that he “left the party” to protest any leaked information.

      http://www.snopes.com/bernie-sanders-leaves-the-democratic-party/

      • Ad 5.2.1

        Would Jill Stein have a good shot at his Vermont Senate seat when he retires?

        • Colonial Viper 5.2.1.1

          If she likes guns and farmers. Otherwise, no hope.

        • adam 5.2.1.2

          A couple of things Ad makes that difficult. The desire for Vermont to have an independent voice. If Green, loses that independance – I know Greens can argue they are independant, but it’s more complex than that. Also as Colonial Viper so crudely puts it, guns. Vermont is a big 2nd ammendment state, and a big arms producer.

          I’d say ballot issues as well. With this proviso that Vermont is one state which sees this as an issue, and is actively doing somthing about it.

          http://ballot-access.org/?s=vermont

          Actually A cool web site is http://ballot-access.org Shows just how bent and twisted this issue is in the USA, with the duleolopy fighting every step of the way to keep people, and voices out.

          I think Jill is more concerned in expanding the Green’s right across the country rather than winning a seat for herself. So that would be the last, and probably the biggest roadblock.

          • Ad 5.2.1.2.1

            That’s very honourable.

            I would hope for her that she goes for a Senate seat. Maybe Oregon or Washington would be a better shot.

            The US needs the Greens with a voice in the Senate. The have leveraged their small voice in the Australian Senate to good effect.

          • Colonial Viper 5.2.1.2.2

            Crudely put it? Heh I prefer “succinctly” lol

  6. adam 6

    One thing I really like about John Oliver, is when he is on, he is ON!!

    Don’t use our songs.

  7. Kevin 7

    There is a wealth of great ideas out there coming from commenters on various blogs. I wish I had written this myself as it is food for thought. Just substitute NZ for USA:

    “No-one discusses whether there should be a taxation system which says:

    1. If you treat your workers right, you will pay a lower rate of corporation tax and dividends will be entirely free of tax. But if you treat your workers badly, your corporation tax rate will go up on a sliding scale the worse you treat your workers and your shareholders dividends will be taxed at higher rates too.
    2. If you retain jobs in this country rather than outsource them to low cost economies overseas, you will pay lower rates of taxation, as we, the Government, don’t have more people needing state aid. We will not punish you for letting products for foreign markets be manufactured in those foreign markets, as you will be being a good corporate citizen overseas too in that scenario.
    3. We will reduce your corporation tax if you make investments in plant and offices which reduce your energy bills to zero. We want America to be a country with efficient and effective infrastructure, so we will modify the tax system to reflect that.
    4. We will reduce your taxation burden if you can demonstrate an ongoing use of suppliers in the developing world who treat their own workers well, since this will reduce our requirements to spend money on foreign aid to ease our consciences.
    5. As financial services organisations, we will reduce your tax rates if you invest a greater amount of your available funds in the USA economy, up to a suitable ceiling, since efficient asset allocation may indicate that significant overseas investment is appropriate. This is because a financial services industry is a service industry to America, not a bunch of pigs with their trotters in the trough……
    6. We will tax higher those who replace humans with robots, since they expect the state to subsidise such people. We expect all companies using robots to automate the preparation of all their financial statements with attendant loss of salary for the Finance Director and numerous other financial staff. This will be particularly true in all Wall Street Firms who should see the loss of high paid jobs just as much as on Main Street………
    This is not a final solution, but a set of ideas to be discussed.
    The principle is how you integrate morality into corporate economics and government taxation policy.
    What is critical is that you distinguish between big companies perfectly capable of doing these things and young companies struggling to survive.
    It’s not simple, but unless people engage in this manner, nothing will change.”

    • Molly 7.1

      B Corporations already have a lower tax rate in some US states if they meet the criteria, – some for the reasons you have outlined.

      They have a fairly stringent rubric of societal, environment and cooperative measures that need to be met.

      This kind of model could be used as a method to encourage smaller sustainable local businesses while ensuring larger, multi-national still pay reasonable levels of tax.

  8. Ad 8

    Some of you may recall a comment I made about Trump and Cruz being like professional wrestlers because their language, moves, and narratives are so precise.

    Here’s Gordon Campbell doing the long version, building on the same idea from Roland Barthes:

    http://werewolf.co.nz/2016/07/gordon-campbell-on-why-the-opinion-polls-for-key-and-trump-defy-gravity/

    • Puckish Rogue 8.1

      Not a bad summation actually

      On a lighter note if you really want to know what is (and isn’t) then watch this:

      Its from Max Landis (son of John) and its very informative (and entertaining)

      • gsays 8.1.1

        Hard case PR.

        As an aside, bob mould, american axeman for husker du and sugar, spent a few years ‘writing’ scenarios for WWE.

        He found it really satisfying.

  9. Olwyn 9

    The attempt to get Jeremy Corbyn removed from the leadership ballot by the courts has failed: http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jul/28/jeremy-corbyn-fights-off-court-challenge-labour-leadership-ballot So his opponents have not been granted an easy ride back to what they think of as normal.

  10. Rosemary McDonald 10

    Toby Morris’ brilliant Rent Rage vent….

    http://thewireless.co.nz/articles/the-pencilsword-rent-rage

  11. Colonial Viper 11

    Yelena Isinbayeva breaks down in tears in front of Putin

    2 time Russian Olympic pole vault gold medallist addresses the Russian Olympic team on the lawless, arbitrary injustice foisted on to Russian athletes who have been collectively banned from the Rio Olympic games without individual evidence and without individual recourse to appeal.

    Ruining the dreams of many athletes about to perform in the first, or the last, Olympic games of their careers.

    • Puckish Rogue 11.1

      Does she have the same tears for the dreams of other athletes that’ve been denied medals by those on peds?

      • Colonial Viper 11.1.1

        Hi PR. She’s not arguing that drug cheats should not be banned. But she does talk about the arbitrary, political and unfair action to ban Russian athletes who have passed their drug tests and how clean athletes are not getting any opportunity to state their case and appeal this collective punishment.

        • Puckish Rogue 11.1.1.1

          While I have some sympathy for her if shes clean, and being that shes Russian that’s a very big call, I have more for the athletes that have missed out

    • adam 11.2

      Come on Colonial Viper, the olympic games have been a political football since their inception. And I don’t mean the revived games, the original games were as much politics, as sport. I’m sure we get the idea that politics as a spectator sport, because of the olympic games.

      Just let the games go, who cares, it’s just a case of who got the better masking agents anyway. And this time Russia did not invest enough in that – sorry for them. Who remembers anyone who won anyway, the only reason I remember John Walker, is his slow descent into far right wingnut.

      • Colonial Viper 11.2.1

        Sure; just making a point about how the western empire of chaos operates against its opposition.

  12. Paul 12

    The sad political career of Trevor Mallard.

    Mallard says it’s because he wants to be the speaker of the next parliament and being a list MP makes it easier to act impartially and avoid conflicts of interest..

    Like most Labour MPs his only political ground has been denouncing National. Long ago they gave up advocating policies for the poor, the oppressed and marginalised. They can go to hell. Mallard argued strongly for Labour to retain the benefit cuts imposed by Ruth Richardson in the early 1990s. He argued the need for “incentives” to pressure those on benefits to find work as hard as he argued against extending the Working for Families assistance package to the poorest children in New Zealand.

    As a senior Labour MP Mallard must shoulder a lot of the blame for the 175,000 children Labour left living in Poverty in 2008 despite three successive terms of a Labour government in times of marvellous economic conditions.

    As Minister of Education he will be remembered for going out of his way to congratulate Cambridge High School for its exceptional NCEA pass rates (subsequently found to be bogus) and his closing of dozens of schools in small communities through the country. National has never had a regional growth strategy but neither has it had a regional annihilation strategy such as that employed by Mallard as he cut the heart from dozens of small kiwi communities.

    For the last eight years in opposition Mallard has been one of Labour’s dead-wood MPs who have stayed in parliament to prevent the party changing direction from the dogmatic right-wing economic agenda he espoused and advocated all his political career.

    http://thedailyblog.co.nz/2016/07/29/the-sad-political-career-of-trevor-mallard/

    • rhinocrates 12.1

      Mallard says it’s because he wants to be the speaker of the next parliament

      What utterly shameless entitlement. Unfortunately he’s not the only one.

      John Minto’s last line rings sadly true:

      It’s too much to expect him to resign – he still has a few more stops at the trough ahead of him.

  13. Paul 13

    The 1 Percent’s Useful Idiots
    by Chris Hedges

    <The parade of useful idiots, the bankrupt liberal class that long ago sold its soul to corporate power, is now led by Sen. Bernie Sanders. His final capitulation, symbolized by his pathetic motion to suspend the roll call, giving Hillary Clinton the Democratic nomination by acclamation, is an abject betrayal of millions of his supporters and his call for a political revolution.

    Read it all here.

    https://off-guardian.org/2016/07/28/the-1-percents-useful-idiots/

  14. adam 14

    I like ‘the humanist report’ but don’t watch it that often. A friend sent this link so I watched, and really enjoyed. For those who find the whole USA elections hard to fathom, later in the show he explains some aspects of the electoral system and why it needs to be replaced with somthing more democratic. Most of that stuff is common place for us, as we have a large dose of proportional representation.

    The first part is an attack from Dan Savage on Jill Stein. Please note the heavy use of curse language from Savage here. Followed by a comprehensive rebuttal. What I like about this, if you have difficulty understanding some of the criticisms around the two party system, or how the stranglehold actually works on the USA – ‘the humanist report’ covers quite succinctly some of those issue.

    Enjoy

  15. Chuck 15

    Announced today by Paula Bennett, a new approach to assist with housing the homeless called “Housing First Programme”.

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11683905

    “More homeless people in Auckland could soon go straight from the streets into their own apartments or houses instead of being shuffled through emergency shelters or state housing under a new Government-backed move.”

    IMO it helps to address the “one size fits all approach” and will make a positive difference.

    • One Anonymous Bloke 15.1

      If only they’d address the structural causes too. The emphasis on evidence is encouraging. I wonder if it will survive Cabinet Club.

      That said, I won’t be in any way surprised if this turns out to be usual combinations of lie and rort.

  16. swordfish 16

    Just thought I’d re-post a comment I’ve just made on Danyl’s Dim Post because it addresses a common misunderstanding among some of the local punditry:

    Danyl: “Key is actually less popular than his party nowadays”

    Bloke who refers to himself as ‘swordfish’: I’m not quite so sure about that. It’s a common assumption (Matthew Hooton, amongst others, has emphasised it), but I think Nat/Key support is actually a damn sight closer than a number of pundits realise.

    No one I’ve read seems to realise that the Party-Vote support figures (in both the One News Colmar Brunton and Newshub Reid Research Polls) exclude those unlikely to vote as well as the Undecided – hence a smaller base than the sample as a whole.

    Whereas, crucially, the Preferred PM stats take the entire sample as their base. In the last CB, for example, Party-Vote base was 1245 / Preferred PM base was 1509. Once you re-calculate, looks to me like the Nats were only a smidgen higher than Key himself.

  17. mosa 17

    One of the fundamentals it is said that defines a society is not just how it treats its most vunerable citizens but also how it treats its animals who are in most cases just as reliant on humans too protect them whether they are domesticated, farm stock or are housed in a zoo or wildlife park.
    One of the most appalling acts of cruelty to be made public this year was the case of the bobby calves who were tortured and butchered by someone who was responsible for their care and welfare.
    This man was charged and appeared in court and was sentenced yesterday to ten months home detention.
    When i saw this footage i could not believe that someone could be this cruel and in human and oblivious to the suffering of these poor creatures who had done nothing to this scumbag to warrant this behaviour and butchery and savagery he meeted out to them and that if he can do this too animals who cant defend themselves what is too stop him doing this too vunerable humans.
    I was sure that once the judge saw the cruelty involved it would warrant a prison sentence but no, home detention.
    We have an animal welfare act much good it does the animals it is supposed too protect when the sentences handed out are in no way a deterrent or punish the offenders, it sends the message that animals have no value, feel no pain or fear and that as living creatures they have no rights at all.
    The judge in this case had an opportunity too send a clear message here and failed miserably.
    The SPCA wont feel vindicated by this decision and the judge has no compassion or human decency or responsibility too do whats right in this case.

    • weston 17.1

      Totally agree mosa especially since it seems this cruelty has been going on since foreva As a kid in the sixties i was very aware as was our whole family that my father would not touch any meat or by product coming from bobby calves like gelatine for ex. His experiences working in freezing works and butcheries in his younger life meant also that he had a personal commitment to never hurting or killing any animal again such was his disgust of what he had observed .Theres no excuse for this shit and no excuse for the judge either that i can think of .Did he say why he was so lenient ?

  18. weston 19

    Can someone tell me why there are three comments here with no reply icons under them ?

    • McFlock 19.1

      reached the nesting limit of replies.

      Each reply is indented so you can follow threads, but if you did that infinitely each comment would end up being three chars wide and

      har
      d t
      o r
      ead

  19. mosa 20

    Thanks Weston for your input.
    The news report on this was short and i didnot hear the judges ruling.
    Does anybody else out there feel revulsion for this type of behaviour and want too see tougher sentences for this type of cruelty or is it in the scheme of things not that important ?

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