Open mike 29/09/2015

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1. Yoza 1

   29 September 2015 at 7:23 am

   No platform for war criminals on campus! Students for Justice in Palestine (Victoria University)

   Vic Uni should not host an event whitewashing Israeli war crimes!
   IDF soldiers are on a speaking tour attempting to justify Israel’s horrific bombing of Gaza in 2014.
   The IDF talk at Victoria University is part of the Israeli government’s propaganda programme to justify war crimes. Victoria University should not be a party to this.
   In July 2014, Israel invaded the Gaza Strip in a military offensive it called ‘Operation Protective Edge’, killing 1,523 civilians including over 500 children. The international community, including New Zealand, condemned the attacks on civilian areas in Gaza. The United Nations stated that the heavy artillery and mortars were not designed for specific military targets. Massive carpet bombing of civilians is a war crime.
   Decades of international diplomacy has failed to curtail Israel’s increasing racism, occupation, violence and expansionism. Palestinian civil society has called for non-violent Disinvestment, Boycott and Sanctions (BDS) to push Israel to comply with international law.
   Victoria University must cut all ties with Israeli whitewashing, starting with this obvious defence of atrocities by the Israeli Defence Force. This is not a free speech issue; IDF soldiers represent the Israeli state. There is no neutral position on providing a platform to justify atrocities.
   The IDF event is planned for Tuesday the 29th of September 2015, Cotton Building (Victoria University) at 8.30 pm.
   SJP are calling for Victoria University to cancel the booking, and will picket the IDF event if it goes ahead.
   • savenz 1.1

     29 September 2015 at 9:24 am

     +1 Institutions need to stay clear of well funded propaganda drives. Killing people is wrong. period.
     • tinfoilhat 1.1.1

       29 September 2015 at 11:38 am

       No I’m going to have to disagree.

       Universities should not be limiting free speech in any way, isn’t it better to let them speak and then raise questions and challenge their view ?
       • Morrissey 1.1.1.1

         29 September 2015 at 12:56 pm

         Do you also think Kyle Chapman and his neo-Nazi thugs should be allowed to stage events at Victoria University?
         • tinfoilhat 1.1.1.1.1

           29 September 2015 at 4:24 pm

           Did you have some trouble reading what I wrote ?
           • Morrissey 1.1.1.1.1.1

             29 September 2015 at 4:35 pm

             Good man, tinfoilhat! Long as you’re consistent.

             My problem is with those who would ban one and not the other. (Kyle Chapman, by the way, is a benign and humane fellow compared to those who give the orders in the IDF.)
             • tinfoilhat …

               29 September 2015 at 6:37 pm

               woman actually..

               I’d even support you being able to hold a meeting at a university.
   • Morrissey 1.2

     29 September 2015 at 1:18 pm

     They ban Chris Brown but they allow IDF terrorists in.

     Who’s making the decisions here? Garth McVicar?
   • Gabby 1.3

     29 September 2015 at 1:22 pm

     Vic Uni doesn’t compromise with other religions.
2. ScottGN 2

   29 September 2015 at 7:44 am

   In Canada the Conservative government’s blatant ploy to simply wear the electorate down with the country’s longest ever election campaign looks to be succeeding. The NDP are sliding from 1st to 3rd place in most of the most recent polls. The Liberals are up a bit but at the moment it looks like the Tories are tracking to win the most seats (they had an advantage after redistribution) and, perhaps, a weak minority government with about 33% of the vote.
   • Bearded Git 2.1

     29 September 2015 at 7:58 am

     @ScottGN Not according to these polls where the NDP/LIB/Green parties are currently forecast to get 209 seats and the Conservatives only 128 seats where 170 are needed to form a majority.

     http://www.cbc.ca/news2/interactives/poll-tracker/2015/index.html

     Have to say my trust of polls has taken a knock since the UK election though.
     • ScottGN 2.1.1

       29 September 2015 at 8:27 am

       None of the parties are expected to get a majority of seats in the House of Commons, though the most recent EKOS poll for the Toronto Star suggested the Conservatives might be getting near that with 35% of the vote.
       Canada doesn’t do coalition governments or even C & S agreements like we do, whichever party gets the most seats (and that was always likely to be the Cons in a pretty even 3 way split) is expected to get the nod from the GG to put a throne speech up in the Commons to test confidence. Conventional wisdom says the opposition parties should support the throne speech rather than a risk voter backlash for triggering an early election by voting it down.
       Currently the Cons could be as many as 40-odd seats short of an overall majority which points to a very weak minority government which may not last terribly long.
       It’s still possible either the Liberals or NDP might win the most seats but clearly that’s more difficult since they are effectively splitting the centre left (anti Harper) vote.
       • Bearded Git 2.1.1.1

         30 September 2015 at 9:53 am

         Interesting. Is it constitutionally impossible that they form a coalition? Is it simply wishful thinking from the Conservatives?
         • ScottGN 2.1.1.1.1

           30 September 2015 at 10:17 am

           Like all the Westminster Systems Bearded Git there’s no constitutional impediment preventing a coalition government. Canadians, however, generally seem to dislike the prospect of one. Also the Conservatives have fed into this by hawking the ‘coalition-of-losers’ theme that Key borrowed from them to trot out every now and again during our election campaign last year.
           • Bearded Git 2.1.1.1.1.1

             30 September 2015 at 4:56 pm

             Yes but the “c of l” argument doesn’t really work at all where the seats are 128 on one side and 95 and 113 on the other. (it is bollocks anyway)

             Surely in this situation, where the Conservatives are far from a majority and the opposition can form a very strong coalition government this will happen?

             Sorry but I don’t buy your “general dislike of coalition” argument.
3. Puckish Rogue 3

   29 September 2015 at 8:32 am

   Wheres Kelvin Davis?

   https://www.3news.co.nz/nznews/manawatu-prison-guards-inmate-involved-in-stabbing-2015092818

   https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/new-zealand/prisoners-sacked-from-unit-after-home-brew-found-in-cells-q12666

   https://www.3news.co.nz/nznews/man-who-removed-electronic-monitoring-bracelet-still-at-large-2015082208

   http://www.stuff.co.nz/auckland/71116086/inmate-found-dead-at-former-sercorun-mt-eden-prison-named
   • tc 3.1

     29 September 2015 at 9:32 am

     yes exactly as the minister resposnsible has been awol and way out of his pompous lawyer arse depth.

     Nice to see acknowledgment from you as to who’s actually driving some potential change here cos it aint dodgy 2 salary sammy who’s major skill is fleecing the system.
     • Puckish Rogue 3.1.1

       29 September 2015 at 9:34 am

       Its funny we don’t hear a peep from Kelvin about this…wonder if its anything to do with them being run by the union
       • McFlock 3.1.1.1

         29 September 2015 at 11:30 am

         You really are chronically full of bullshit.

         Your first link is recent, and yes I would be expecting an investigation as to how it occurred.

         Your second link shows exactly what should happen: prisoner misconduct is detected, reported, and the prisoners punished. As opposed to when serco run things.

         Your third link is a bit random, especially as 3M has the contract for installing and monitoring the bracelets.

         Your fourth link occurred barely three weeks after corrections took over management from serco – the public service is efficient, but doesn’t work miracles.

         Your “union” comment is fucking stupid, considering that two of the three worst cases involved privatised security rather than how corrections should be run.
         • Puckish Rogue 3.1.1.1.1

           29 September 2015 at 11:55 am

           You know as well I as do that there are plenty more examples of s**t that goes down in prisons

           It doesn’t matter if its corrections run or serco run stuff like this will go down but its only a bad thing if it happens in a serco run prison
           • McFlock 3.1.1.1.1.1

             29 September 2015 at 12:40 pm

             Again, your moral compass is broken.
             “Bad shit” is, yes, bad. But there’s the occasional-turd-in-the-middle-of-the-lawn bad, and then there’s the someone-emptied-a-septic-truck-on-my-lawn bad.

             Bad shit does happen in most if not all prisons. But, as I pointed out to you above, it’s the role of the prison authorities to identify the bad shit, and discipline the prisoners to try to prevent it happening again. Not to ignore it or be oblivious to it until it ends up on fucking youtube.

             It’s not bad because serco runs the prison. It’s worse because serco is bad at running prisons.
             • Draco T Bastard …

               29 September 2015 at 2:12 pm

               It’s not bad because serco runs the prison. It’s worse because serco is bad at running prisons.

               And then tries to hide the fact that they fucked up so that they get the bonuses anyway and then, when found out, still get to keep the bonuses.
       • tc 3.1.1.2

         29 September 2015 at 11:45 am

         We hear even less from the minister responsible….wonder if its anything to do with the govt being run by the hollowmen.
4. esoteric pineapples 4

   29 September 2015 at 8:52 am

   Great new speech from Jeremy Corbyn – so many parallels with New Zealand – https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mPLs2m3E0p0
   • esoteric pineapples 4.1

     29 September 2015 at 9:13 am

     Maybe not quite new – just realised it was before he won the Labour Party election
     • nadis 4.1.1

       29 September 2015 at 10:41 am

       Good to see Corbyn got his way on trident. Oh hang on….
       • Puddleglum 4.1.1.1

         29 September 2015 at 10:25 pm

         Yes, goes to show that the Stalinist, totalitarian radical left dictator-in-waiting that we all knew Corbyn to be has now crushed and purged the democratic processes of his party with an iron fist so that they would fall into line with his position. Oh hang on …
5. greywarshark 5

   29 September 2015 at 10:02 am

   Radionz interview with USA corespondent this morning has a lot of background on USA ways to what he calls gerrymander the system. It explains some of the things that they have done in connection with Tea Party strength. It explains their intransigent approach.
   I will put up audio link when it comes available. It will be enlightening for people who want to learn more, and try to understand how our democracy could be warped like that of the USA.
   • joe90 5.1

     29 September 2015 at 11:23 am

     Where there’s a will there’s a way to win elections.

     http://talkingpointsmemo.com/muckraker/janet-adkins-corinne-brown-prisoners-gerrymandering?

     http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2012/10/the-league-of/309084/

     http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonkblog/wp/2015/03/01/this-is-the-best-explanation-of-gerrymandering-you-will-ever-see/
6. greywarshark 6

   29 September 2015 at 10:07 am

   This would be comforting to us who believe in living in a co-operative community way, and helping each other where possible. Worth a listen.

   1:30 Effective Altruism, Doing Good Better
   William MacAskill, as a Research Fellow at Cambridge University spent five years developing the philosophy of effective altruism, which applies data and scientific reasoning to the normally sentimental world of doing good. During the course of his research he concluded that many ways of making a difference achieve little, but by targeting our efforts on the most effective causes, we each have an enormous power to make the world a better place. In his book, Doing Good Better he introduces the principles underlying effective altruism and sets out a practical guide to increasing your impact through your charity, volunteering, purchases and choice of cause.
7. Clean_power 7

   29 September 2015 at 12:07 pm

   This is the person Phil Twyford was defending as “climate change refugee”. Another own-goal by this bungling and less than competent MP.
   https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/new-zealand/-a-dark-underbelly-sex-allegations-made-against-kiribati-climate-change-refugee-q12092
   • joe90 7.1

     29 September 2015 at 12:21 pm

     Another own-goal by this bungling and less than competent MP.

     Like the own-goal by a bungling and less than competent PM who allowed an alleged child sex offender to remain as chairman of the law and order select committee in Parliament?.
     • greywarshark 7.1.1

       29 September 2015 at 1:08 pm

       So this Kiribati man could have been guilty of something. It does not change the fact that he and his children can state rightly that they are climate refugees.

       I doubt if this fault-finding Rw power broker has always been clean in word and deed. For goodness sake stick to the point in your thinking clean, your processes are muddy.
8. Morrissey 8

   29 September 2015 at 12:26 pm

   Outmanoeuvred and outsmarted by Russia and Iran,
   Obama’s only response is a bumptious display of pique.

   The United States and Britain have been comprehensively humiliated. Their program of sowing chaos and mayhem in Syria is now coming to an end, now that Russia is committing troops to support the government against the Al Qaeda, Al Nusra and ISIS terrorists the U.S. and U.K. have supported for the last four years.

   In the United Nations, at a luncheon hosted by that corpse Ban Ki-moon, Obama hypocritically proposed a toast “to the United Nations.” He clinked glasses with everyone around him, but made a point of grimacing and scowling when interacting with Putin.

   Obama’s ill-advised antics represent the most pathetic attempt at a tough-guy act by a U.S. president since Harry Truman’s risible ambush of Vyacheslav Molotov in 1945.

   http://www.people.com/article/barack-obama-vladimir-putin-toast-frown

   http://www.johndclare.net/cold_war5_effect.htm
9. Morrissey 9

   29 September 2015 at 12:50 pm

   Who called National Party MPs “sheep fuckers” in Parliament?
   Nine to Noon, Radio NZ National, Tuesday 29 September 2015

   About 11:55 a.m. …..

   KATHRYN RYAN: …. Now, speaking of taste and decency. This David Cameron story was BIZARRE, wasn’t it!

   GAVIN ELLIS: I’m not going to describe what we’re talking about, beyond saying it involved a pig, and it allegedly happened when he was at university.

   KATHRYN RYAN: [chortling] Trying to beat around the bush and use euphemisms only makes it infinitely worse!

   GAVIN ELLIS: I don’t think there is a euphemism for this. …[He embarks on a lengthy discourse about the way language is used to evade the sordid realities of what people like Conservative prime ministers get up to]….

   KATHRYN RYAN: So where does this leave us with the David Cameron story?

   GAVIN ELLIS: Well, it’s horses for courses, or pigs for courses…. [Another lengthy descant follows]….

   Then, right at the end, the host say something intriguing….

   KATHRYN RYAN: I could tell you of something that happened in parliament a few years ago, when I was political correspondent there. One MP yelled out an accusation at a whole party! I dare not say it because it would bring down a whole heap of trouble on my head!

   Pregnant silence….

   KATHRYN RYAN: Two words. The first one was “sheep”!

   GAVIN ELLIS: [uncertainly] Ho ho!

   So…. who was it that yelled “Sheep fuckers!” at those hapless National Party members? Was it Trevor Mallard? Grant Gillon? David Benson-Pope? Jill Pettis? Winston Peters?

   I think we should be told.
   • greywarshark 9.1

     29 September 2015 at 1:04 pm

     It would have been sheep shaggers. That’s the correct term of abuse that goes with sheep don’t you know that!
     • Morrissey 9.1.1

       29 September 2015 at 4:36 pm

       Certainly, “Sheep shaggers” has the power of alliteration to commend it, but I prefer the coarse beauty of “Sheep fuckers”.
   • Gabby 9.2

     29 September 2015 at 9:21 pm

     Zoe George seems to be completely pointless. Her silly voices are even more annoying than Chris Trotter’s. She has to be pretending to be that shallow and flippant. Sue Guthrie speaks like an infant. She’s even more annoying than Jesse ‘yeah yeah’ Mulligan.
     • Morrissey 9.2.1

       30 September 2015 at 11:08 am

       Her silly voices are even more annoying than Chris Trotter’s.

       Now, THAT is annoying!
10. greywarshark 10

    29 September 2015 at 1:02 pm

    USA POLITICAL MACHINATIONS – http://www.radionz.co.nz/audio/player/201772508
    Effective Altruism – http://www.radionz.co.nz/audio/player/201772518

    SOUNDS INTERESTING http://www.radionz.co.nz/audio/player/201771841
    Propaganda and Public Opinion
    Updated at 4:28 pm on 25 September 2015
    Professor Jason
    Professor Jason Stanley of the Philosophy Department at Yale University talks about the subtle and insidious ways that propaganda presents itself as pragmatism within liberal democracies.

    Jason Stanley is the author of How Propaganda Works.
11. Morrissey 11

    29 September 2015 at 1:09 pm

    Just what would it take for Chris Brown
    to be acceptable to the New Zealand government?

    Chris Brown beat up Rihanna. That means he is an insalubrious person. So insalubrious, in fact, that those paragons of virtue, John Key and his henchmen, have banned him from entering New Zealand.

    In order to get in the good books of the NZ government, there are certain actions Chris Brown should have taken….

    He could have ordered the bombing of a pharmaceutical plant in Sudan, enforced brutal sanctions that led to the deaths of hundreds of thousands of Iraqi children and supported the grossest human rights abusers in Riyadh, Cairo, Tel Aviv, Amman, Islamabad, Bogotá, Jakarta….

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Zealand–United_States_relations#/media/File:Bill_Clinton_Jenny_Shipley_toast.jpg
12. greywarshark 12

    29 September 2015 at 2:20 pm

    Where the hell are you? Visiting friendly Australia? Don’t forget it has poisonous spiders, snakes and politicians. And will give you the song of the laughing jackass as you leave.

    But NZ has good politicians who will stand by NZs at all times?
    NZ Justice Minister Amy Adams said on 17 September 2015 – http://www.radionz.co.nz/audio/player/201770979
    http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/political/284441/nz-to-challenge-australian-immigration-policy

    http://www.radionz.co.nz/audio/player/201772505
    Trans Tasman Travel Arrangement is not a binding treaty
    9:26 AM. The Trans-Tasman Travel Arrangement (TTTA) provides that Australians and New Zealanders can travel to and live and work in one another’s country without restriction. However it is not part of any binding bilateral treaty between New Zealand and Australia. Andrew Smith of Victoria University’s School of Accounting and Commercial Law has looked at the TTTA and the impact of Australia changed the rules for New Zealanders living in Australia.

    Altogether, 184 New Zealanders are being detained.
    Eighty have already been deported since new laws came into force in Australia last year.
    Australian Lawyers Alliance national president Greg Barns said immigration officials could eventually round up many of the 5,000 New Zealanders who have served more than 12 months in Australian jails.
    http://www.radionz.co.nz/audio/player/201772506
    http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/national/285568/1-in-10-held-in-oz-detention-centres-are-kiwis

    (Actually, the Ozzies are trawling through records to search for NZs who have served one, or more sentences for anything, up to one whole year’s jail served as long as 10 years ago. Done, behaved. But now, out. Pack your bags, leave your family, don’t get told anything. Dumped on an off-shore island.

    Of course under our RW government we had dawn raids that were a ‘bit’ unfair. But we hoped that was all behind us. However Oz can bite like a poisonous snake and they can choose when, and have decided now they have squeezed all the financial advantage from us, they will pick us off over the next years, as other world ‘superior’ forces have done after deciding some group is contemptible.

    Can we be sure that Ozzies will be restrained by their fairness, their innate kindness and intelligence? Brahahahaha.)
13. Penny Bright 13

    29 September 2015 at 2:38 pm

    FYI – more info on the TPPA Judicial Review:

    http://www.nbr.co.nz/article/crown-law-defends-grosers-inaction-tpp-oia-request-b-179334?utm_source=newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=NBR%2520Heads%2520Up

    “…
    US media reports suggest the US is pushing Canada to open its dairy market to New Zealand and Australian competition, signalling progress on one of the last remaining issues to be negotiated among the 12 nations of the Asia-Pacific.

    That news is alarming US and Canadian dairy farmers but is likely to involve far more limited concessions than New Zealand has pushed for.

    Groser said last week there would not be a “gold-plated deal” on dairy, but a deal had to emerge or New Zealand could not sign. Groser is in the US for climate change talks in New York and had not decided last week whether to attend the Georgia meeting, unless there was a dairy deal to discuss.

    Justice Collins asked Palmer to reflect on his recent decision “about the extent to which courts should give direction”, which Hardy later cited as saying that “to make a declaration, the statement must be fact-specific, efficacious and capable of practical application.”

    “The crux of the argument is that the information that could properly be released and was unlawfully withheld is the anodyne, publicly available material.”

    Palmer argued that the New Zealand government should not be “contracting out” its legal obligations under the OIA by making it subservient to the requirements of a strict confidentiality agreement between the 12 TPP nations.

    Justice Collins observed that such a decision “could be consistent” with the act.

    Palmer also dwelt on the approach being taken by the European Union, which has been willing to allow release of negotiating texts relating to the European-US equivalent of TPP, known as TTIP, and comments by the European Ombudsman suggesting the traditional secrecy surrounding trade negotiations is counter-productive to public trust in such processes.

    The hearing is expected to conclude today and Justice Collins said he would “do my best to get it (a judgement) out as quickly as I can.”

    __________________________________________________________

    Compare the lack of ‘open, transparent and democratically accountable’ central (and local) government, at the highest levels, with the increased infringements of citizens’ lawful rights to privacy and ‘freedom of expression’?

    In whose ‘national interest’ is New Zealand really being run?

    For the benefit of (U$A) and other foreign corporations, or the public majority of New Zealand citizens?

    (HINT: Follow the dollar ….

    NZ Prime Minister John Key IS a shareholder in the Bank of America.
    Pg 29, the 2015 MP’s’ Register of Financial Interests), and a major advocate for the TPPA.

    http://www.parliament.nz/resource/en-nz/00CLOOCMPPFinInterests20151/8bb43d9064b110c19c88349a36301a9580cfb3ed

    How is that not a significant ‘conflict of interest’, and why is more FUSS not being made about this, given New Zealand’s ‘perceived’ status as the SECOND ‘least corrupt country in the world’?

    https://www.transparency.org/cpi2014/results

    Who else agrees that it is a serious ‘conflict of interest’ for NZ prime Minister John Key, to be a shareholder in the Bank of America?

    Penny Bright
14. Wairua 14

    29 September 2015 at 2:51 pm

    It seems to be a Tony Abbott initiative – Malcom had not been in power long enough to put it through the Australian Commonealth government decision cycle.

    It is part of our zeitgeist as zionists & neo-cons flail around about Russian & Chinese forces in Syria. They have resources, like nukes.

    Aotearoans will be familiar with
    http://off-guardian.org/category/censored-on-cif/h
15. Wairua 15

    29 September 2015 at 3:48 pm

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/syria-civil-war-kurdish-leader-says-collapse-of-assad-regime-would-be-a-disaster-despite-its-10515922.ht

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/syria-crisis-david-cameron-raises-prospect-of-assad-staying-in-power-to-win-russian-support-for-anti-a6668896.html

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/syria-crisis-labour-calls-on-the-government-to-get-behind-un-resolution-to-end-the-conflict-a6669431.html

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/palestinian-museum-new-institution-to-exhibit-the-history-of-a-beleaguered-people-a6668701.html

    The Haj raises issues of competence, culpability, & compensation ..

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/hajj-stampede-death-toll-rises-to-at-least-769-after-victims-die-in-hospital-a6668346.html
16. Penny Bright 16

    29 September 2015 at 4:12 pm

    Seen this?

    NBR (those ‘wild-eyed radicals’ 😉 – interview Professor Jane Kelsey on TPP legal action:
    _________________________________________________________________________________

    http://www.nbr.co.nz/article/nbr-radio-special-jane-kelsey-tpp-legal-action-nr-179379?utm_source=newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=NBR%2520Last%2520Call

    NBR Radio Special: Jane Kelsey on TPP legal action

    NBR RADIO TUESDAY SEPTEMBER 29, 2015

    Jane Kelsey

    Auckland law professor Jane Kelsey talks about her TPP legal challenge

    Auckland law professor Jane Kelsey told NBR Radio she is challenging an “unlawful” government decision to deny an official trade document request.

    The High Court in Wellington is hearing an application for a judicial review brought by Professor Kelsey, Consumer New Zealand, Oxfam and the Association of Salaried Medical Specialists.

    The case is in response to the government’s refusal to release the draft negotiation documents of the Trans Pacific Partnership (TPP) despite Professor Kelsey’s request through Official Information Act channels.

    Professor Kelsey claims the decision to withhold the information was unlawful and had “concerning precedents.”

    “The approach that was taken [to deny the request], as well as the considerations that led to the minister to reach that conclusion, is what we’re challenging,” she says.

    The government has defended its decision by saying it is obliged to withhold the documents by a strict confidentiality agreement with the 12 other members of the TPP negotiations.

    “One of my concerns is this response removes accountability from the decision makers. That’s not just an issue for the TPP negotiations but also an issue more broadly.”

    If the review goes ahead, it will “hopefully bring about a shift in government behaviour and mind-set” in regards to future multilateral negotiations, Professor Kelsey says.
    • RedBaronCV 16.1

      29 September 2015 at 10:07 pm

      What I would like to know is how the government lawyers can say the Govt has signed a strict confidentiality with other TTPA governments when at least some of the taxpayers (corporates) have seen the negotiations.
      And then I suppose the government lawyers are going to say that the secrecy agreement prevents the govt from divulging the names of the parties they have given the TTPA secrets to already. And down the rabbit hole we go .

      At this point there is a recursive argument- lets hope the judge can see it
17. Penny Bright 17

    29 September 2015 at 4:50 pm

    Meanwhile – in Europe – pressure against the TransAtlantic Trade and Investment Partnership (TTIP) grows ……

    http://www.commondreams.org/news/2015/09/28/will-ttip-get-terminated-negotiations-falter-europe-balks? utm_campaign=shareaholic&utm_medium=facebook&utm_source=socialnetwork

    Monday, September 28, 2015
    by Common Dream

    Will TTIP Get Terminated? Negotiations Falter as Europe Balks

    As EU-US trade talks flounder, France doesn’t rule out ‘an outright termination of negotiations’

    by Deirdre Fulton, staff writer

    Almost 3 million people across Europe have signed a petition calling on the European Commission to scrap the agreement.

    While public opposition to the TransAtlantic Trade and Investment Partnership (TTIP)—the massive proposed “trade” deal between the European Union and the United States—has grown steadily since negotiations started two years ago, new signs suggest that official government backing is also faltering across Europe.

    In an interview with French regional newspaper Sud Ouest published Monday, Junior Trade Minister Matthias Fekl said TTIP negotiations were favoring American interests and “either weren’t advancing or were progressing in the wrong direction.”

    “If nothing changes, it will show that there isn’t the will to achieve mutually beneficial negotiations,” he said, before adding: “France is considering all options including an outright termination of negotiations.”

    Meanwhile, a group of more than 55 UK members of parliament (MPs) has signed onto a motion expressing major concerns about the mammoth trade pact, which civil society groups have dubbed a corporate giveaway. Caroline Lucas, the Green Party MP, put forward the Commons motion, and it has now been signed by every member of the Scottish National Party group at Westminster, as well as the Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn and his Shadow Chancellor John McDonnell.

    Politico’s Paul Ames wrote of the “cooling ardor on both sides of the Atlantic” earlier this month, saying that since talks began in July 2013, the trade deal “has lost some of its shine.”

    “Concern over the impact of TTIP has united disparate groups,” he wrote, “from French farmers to German constitutional lawyers and politicians on the left and right.”

    Almost 3 million people across Europe have signed a petition calling on the Commission to scrap the agreement.

    Last week, the Oxford-based group ‘We Own It,’ which deals with national issues surrounding public services, held a demonstration against the proposed TTIP, warning that it could lead to private businesses being too heavily involved in public services.

    Cat Hobbs, an organizer with the group, told the Oxford Mail: “The idea is that it would open up new markets to private companies and the reality here is that it’s going to open up public services to private companies. Multi-national corporations’ rights will become more important than ours.”

    ……..
18. Penny Bright 18

    29 September 2015 at 9:07 pm

    NZ Prime Minister John Key backs up his golfing buddy USA President Barack Obama over Syria.

    No surprises there …. (Radio NZ 29 September 2015)
    ————————————————————————
    The Prime Minister says the immediate removal of the Assad regime is no longer a necessary starting point for achieving peace in Syria.

    Prime Minister John Key

    Speaking from New York, where he is attending the United Nations General Assembly, John Key said he supported comments made by US President Barack Obama.

    “If you listen very carefully to what President Obama said today, he said that there was essentially a sort of multi-staged way of carrying out changes in Syria,” said Mr Key.

    “And it was very much along the lines that both elements of concern in Syria would need to change over time, but not necessarily as a starting point.

    That’s really where New Zealand is at.”
19. Muttonbird 19

    29 September 2015 at 10:32 pm

    The Kermadec marine sanctuary announcement was as blatant a “look at me moment” from Key as you could get.

    Disgraceful.

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