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Open mike 29/12/2013

Written By: - Date published: 6:53 am, December 29th, 2013 - 104 comments
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104 comments on “Open mike 29/12/2013 ”

  1. proof of meat/dairy-bye-product consumption having as strong a link to cancer..

    ..as tobacco..

    (the results of this new research was just released on december 27th..

    “..Consumption of meat and other animal products is strongly linked to several types of cancer –

    – according to an article published in the journal Nutrients.

    The author analyzed data on 21 different cancers in 157 countries –

    – and found that certain factors – especially diet –

    – were associated with risk for developing specific cancers.

    Specifically – the association between animal product consumption and cancer –

    – was as strong as that linking tobacco and cancer..”

    (cont..)

    ..ed:..and funny story!!

    ..those types of cancers linked to meat/dairy consumption are cancers of which we in new zealand.have some of the highest rates in the world..

    ..and of course that fits in tidily with our world-beating rates of consumption of that meat/dairy..eh..?

    ..it’s kinda like join-the-dots..but at a pre-school level..eh..?

    http://www.pcrm.org/health/medNews/

    ..now..how can that not be a wake-up all..?

    ..how much more proof do you need..?

    ..when you are told the risks of cancer/premature-death are as high as from smoking tobacco..

    ..whoar..!..eh..?

    ‘waiter..!..hold that bacon ‘n cheese sarnie..!..i’ll have the porridge instead..!..’

    eh..?

    phillip ure..

    • karol 1.1

      Doesn’t porridge have milk with it? As I recall it’s the reason I could never stomach porridge as a child.

      • phillip ure 1.1.1

        @ karol..good point..

        ..but soy/rice/almond etc.- milk is the answer..

        ..vanilla-flavoured soy goes particularly well with a fruit-packed-porridge..(mmm!!!..)

        ..(and of course those big/fat wholemeal porridge whole-flakes..

        ..not that powdered muck..that just turns into wallpaper-paste..

        ..and if you pack enough fruit into it..(raisins/banana/apple/pear..a good porridge is just as edible sans milk…)

        ..i also recommend a layer of frozen/fresh-berries in the bottom of the bowl..

        ..a ‘surprise’…that lifts the porridge-experience to a whole new level..

        ..and leaves you sneering in disdain at yr bog-standard fat-soaked/greasy/slimy bacon ‘n cheese sarnie..that just leaves you feeling ‘blagh!’…

        ..eh..?

        phillip ure..

        • weka 1.1.1.1

          Modern industrial soy is a blight on the planet. Look it up.

          “..how much more proof do you need..?”

          Yeah, nah.

          Animal Products Linked to Cancer
          December 27, 2013

          Consumption of meat and other animal products is strongly linked to several types of cancer, according to an article published in the journal Nutrients. The author analyzed data on 21 different cancers in 157 countries and found that certain factors, especially diet, were associated with risk for developing specific cancers. Specifically, the association between animal product consumption and cancer was as strong as that linking tobacco and cancer. Possible mechanisms for risk include animal products’ promotion of growth and high iron and fat content. The author notes that while detection and treatment are important, animal product consumption has been recognized as a cancer risk for more than a century and needs to be addressed in order to prevent the deadly disease.

          How come non-Western cultures with high meat protein diets don’t have high rates of cancer (quite the opposite)? It’s not meat eating per se, it’s how we do it. Can’t comment futher on that research until I see whether they controlled for things like refined carb intake, lifestyle, modern pollutants etc which tend to go hand in hand with meat consumption. Would also want to know if they differentiated between grass-fed meat vs feed-lot, pumped full of chemicals meat.

          • phillip ure 1.1.1.1.1

            @ weka..

            did you not even read what you posted..?

            “..The author analyzed data on 21 different cancers in 157 countries..”

            ..if you claim you did..then why did you say:

            “..Can’t comment futher on that research until I see whether they controlled for things like refined carb intake, lifestyle, modern pollutants etc..”

            just obfuscating-bullshit on yr part..eh..?..really..

            ..phillip ure..

            • weka 1.1.1.1.1.1

              I said that because there is lots of dodgy research being done in the world and I’d want to see a better analysis of the reasearch than was on the page you linked to before I commented further.

              What concerns me is that you consider this

              http://www.pcrm.org/health/medNews/

              to equate to proof, without any fact checking or analysis at all. Don’t worry, I see meat eaters making the same kinds of mistakes.

              Do you understand how things like overall diet, lifestyle, environment could affect the outcome of research into on the health effects of a specific food? I suspect you don’t. I know I’ve asked you these kinds of questions before that you just ignore. It’s the worst kind of intellectual argument (quoting a useless source and then refusing to back it up) and I’m surprised that its tolerated by the general commentariat here. If you were making a more conventional political statement people would be all over you.

              • @ weka..

                “..the page you linked to ..”

                the page i linked to..(that you sneer at/use to dismiss the whole argument).. is a report from a physicians-group….

                ..alerting readers to a new/groundbreaking study..

                ..that has been written up in a scientific-journal..called ‘nutrition’..(with all the checks and balances that entails..)..

                ..so no..weka..it isn’t an article in fucken usa-today..eh..?

                ..it is the results of meta-research of 151 other studies..comparing cancers in 21 different countries..

                ..so yr..’i need more details!’..

                ..is just strawman-argument bullshit..eh..?

                ..and as for yr final paragraph..

                ..once again..utter horseshit..

                ..of course there are variables in every study..

                ..but once again..a strawman-argument from you..

                ..as this is a study of other studies..

                ..what are you finding so hard to grasp about that simple fact..?

                ..phillip ure..

                • weka

                  “..that has been written up in a scientific-journal..called ‘nutrition’..(with all the checks and balances that entails..)..”

                  Alot of medical research is done poorly and/or has been co-opted by various special interest groups. This is a well known phenomenon and is acknowleged within science and medicine.

                  I don’t know the Nutrition journal so am in no position to judge the value of its peer review (assuming it did peer review the research). I haven’t seen the research published. That’s all I said – that there wasn’t enough information to judge the value of it. You are quite welcome to trust it, but if you post it in a public forum then expect some analysis.

                  So, it’s not strawman argument. It’s based on experience and understanding. I note that yet again you fail to answer my questions and just call them horseshit, and so have just reinforced my opinion of you that you don’t really understand how scientific research works and how to evaluate it.

                  • correction:..the scientific journal is called ‘nutrients’..

                    ..and is described in wikipedia as thus:

                    “..Nutrients is an open access peer-reviewed scientific journal publishing reviews, regular research papers, and short communications on all aspects of nutrition..”

                    ..(hope that helps..)

                    ..and once again i have to return to the fact you seem unable to grasp..

                    ..this is a meta-study..looking at 151 other scientific-studies..over 21 countries..

                    ..so yr paranoias detailed in yr second paragraph ..do not/cannot apply to that..

                    ..it is a different discipline…mainly number/stat-crunching..

                    ..no actual on lab-table research/study..

                    ..get that..?

                    ..and if you can’t ‘trust’ a study/evidence of such magnitude/scope..

                    ..and if you think that ‘vested-interests’..(who..?..the all-powerful vegan-lobby?..) have twisted this research somehow..

                    ..best you go and stand over there with the tobacco-doesn’t-cause-cancer/the-moon-landings-didn’t-happen crew..eh..?

                    ..and you still haven’t answered that simple straightforward question:

                    ..do you receive/derive yr monies from the animal-flesh-trade industries..?

                    ..and what questions of yours do you feel i have not answered..?

                    ..phillip ure..

                    • weka

                      But none of that was in the original link was it.

                      Here’s the full article. How about you read it and then respond to the points I raised in my first comment.

                      http://www.mdpi.com/2072-6643/6/1/163

                      How come non-Western cultures with high meat protein diets don’t have high rates of cancer (quite the opposite)? It’s not meat eating per se, it’s how we do it. Can’t comment futher on that research until I see whether they controlled for things like refined carb intake, lifestyle, modern pollutants etc which tend to go hand in hand with meat consumption. Would also want to know if they differentiated between grass-fed meat vs feed-lot, pumped full of chemicals meat.

                    • i think i’ll just leave you to dance on the head of yr pin there..weka..

                      ..but the basic message still stands..

                      ..eating cheese/milk/meat will likely give you cancer/premature-death..

                      ..and..as with the ciggy-smokers of yore.. it’s over to you now..

                      ..what you (and other readers) do with that new information/knowledge/awareness..eh..?

                      ..you have two choices..(as did the ciggy-smokers when they first got the news..)

                      ..denial..and continuing to consume/feed yr children this proven carcinogen..

                      ..or acceptance of the science/facts..

                      ..and a lifestyle adjustment to take that new information into account..

                      ..as i said..it’s up/over to you..

                      ..i’ve delivered the message..

                      ..that’s all i can do..

                      phillip ure

                    • and as a p.s..

                      ..all the info/recipies etc. you will need to shed the carcinogenic-diet can be found here..

                      http://whoar.co.nz/category/vegan-stuff/

                      and as an aside..there is a ‘high’ to be had from being vegan..

                      ..a ongoing ‘high’ that not even vegetarians are aware of/experience..

                      ..tho’ vegetarians have had a taste of it from dropping the meat..

                      ..but the high-payoff from going vegan is much more pronounced than if dairy is still consumed..

                      ..(i was vegetarian for 15 yrs..(and thought vegans were ‘a bit weird’..wot…?..no cheese..?..geddouttahere..!..)

                      ..)and have been vegan for 15 yrs..

                      ..and i mean it most sincerely when i tell you that you will feel much better..

                      ..when you stop eating animals..

                      ..and things processed from them..

                      ..(and did i mention ‘the cancer’..?..)

                      ..there is both a (high) carrot..and a (cancer) stick..

                      ..with this one..

                      ..phillip ure..

                    • weka

                      “..eating cheese/milk/meat will likely give you cancer/premature-death..”

                      Citation needed. And what’s with the ‘likely’ bit?

                      You still haven’t responded to my substantive points (not really surprised, you strike me as very dogmatic on this, so why bother with reality).

                      I was vegetarian for a long time (a very nutritionally well-informed vegetarian), and part of that time I was virtually vegan. My health improved substantially when I started eating meat again. I know many other people that this is true for. I also know people that do well on vege diets. One size doesn’t fit all.

                    • you are attempting to complicate what is simple..

                      ..the message is as ‘simple’ and straightforward as the ‘tobacco causes cancer’ one..

                      ..and all the twisting/twirling in the world from you won’t change that..

                      ..and yes..this may be called heralding a seachange in global dietary-patterns..

                      ..and yes..it also heralds a seachange for the new zealand economy..

                      ..we had all better crack on and copy james cameron..

                      ..he is converting the large dairy-holdings he pruchased in the wairarapa..

                      ..back into producing real food/crops..

                      ..he is just being a pioneer in what the rest of the country will have to do..

                      ..eventually..

                      ..(and as a comparison/example of other cancer-causing info radically changing society..

                      ..how long ago was it that everyone smoked cigarettes..?..)

                      ..i remember that/those times..

                      ..and how the smokers scoffed when the scientists first started going:..’um..!..hang on..!..cancer..?’..

                      ..it may seem hard for many to grasp here/now/today..

                      ..but the cheese-block is due to go the way of the packet of ciggies..

                      ..it will no longer be an essential of our daily life..

                      ..and will assume the odium of the full-ashtray..

                      ..phillip ure..

          • RedLogix 1.1.1.1.2

            How come non-Western cultures with high meat protein diets don’t have high rates of cancer (quite the opposite)? It’s not meat eating per se, it’s how we do it.

            Paleo. Been holding my body together now 3 years. No sugar, no fructose, no hydrogenated oils, minimal wheat and dairy.

            Lots of vegetable carbs, fermented foods, protein and saturated fats. Recent cardio test was perfect.

            The big problem I’m not properly managing in my life at the moment is correct exercise, stress and inflammation.

            • weka 1.1.1.1.2.1

              Nice one RL. I know other people who paleo works very well for too. There are other traditional diets that have good health outcomes too. I don’t even object to people being vegan, it just irks when some claim that their way is best and that everyone else would be better off doing what they do (demonstrably false), and anyone who doesn’t is somehow bad or wrong. Veganism, as practiced by most in the West, is also pretty high in terms of environmental damage, so pah to their moral high ground.

              • sheesh weka..i’m just the messanger..eh..?

                ..and ..could you plse answer the question..

                ..do you derive your income from the income generated by the animal-flesh-trade..?

                ..what else to explain yr choleric-tone..?

                ..you aren’t eating too much meat..are you..?

                ..i’ve heard it’s not good for ya..eh..?

                ..and the rage/irrationality/tone/timbre of yr responses on this subject..likely echo the responses to those first reports of cigs causing cancer..

                ..for smokers..amongst smokers..eh..?

                ..phillip ure..

                • weka

                  “..do you derive your income from the income generated by the animal-flesh-trade..?”

                  No, I have nothing to do with the meat industry.

                  “..and the rage/irrationality/tone/timbre of yr responses on this subject..”

                  Ha, ha, I’m actually not eating meat at all at the moment. There is nothing wrong with appropriately placed anger (ts is full of it, as is the vegan movement). But by all means point out some specific examples of where I am being irrational. Things you merely don’t like don’t count.

            • greywarbler 1.1.1.1.2.2

              RL I got the idea you were on a mountain somewhere. So either you are overdoing the exercise or setting a very demanding schedule. And stress, I think that a bit of meditation in a quiet safe place rests all the body, even a change, another page in the book you have chosen to read. Also a lie down where you start relaxing your whole body from your toes up. We are holding ourselves in readiness for action all the time and don’t realise it till we deliberately shed it.

        • karol 1.1.1.2

          I know, phillip.

          My breakfast is usually some fruit, nuts, seeds – blender & almond milk + a bit of plain unsweetened yogurt.

          My childhood, wretching experiences of porridge have put me off it for life.

      • Zorr 1.1.2

        Easily edible without any milk whatsoever

        It’s the morning staple in my household where no-one is able to have milk

      • infused 1.1.3

        eat it without milk… doesn’t need it.

    • QoT 1.2

      .. oh my god …

      …saw this terrifying study….

      ..might be a wake up call!!!..

      …100% of vegans will eventually die…

      ..just like everyone else…

      eh?..

  2. Tigger 2

    http://m.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11178968

    The Herald’s hypocrisy over Brown is breathtaking.

    “Many believe he will not see out his term at the helm of the Super City.”

    Rather ironic since it’s this newspaper leading the campaign to have him resign.

    • karol 2.1

      Don’t the Nats have a major trust through which their campaign funds are filtered?

      • Tigger 2.1.1

        My thoughts also, K.

        • karol 2.1.1.1

          Yes. I reckon it’s time to put a cap on all campaign spending – the whole system of funding campaigns corrupts democracy.

          And it’s why there’s no truly left wing viable candidate for mayor of Auckland. It all aid the interests of the wealthy ad the powerful corporates.

      • phillip ure 2.1.2

        they all do..it is an area screaming for urgent-reform..

        ..when 446 grand of the seven hundred something grand brown spent on his campaign..

        ..came from that donor-secret slush-fund..it is clear something stinks..

        ..and going on browns’ actions to date..i think we all really need to know just who it is who ‘owns’/’bought’ influence with him..

        ..(and how that buying dictates his actions/inactions in office..)

        ..all political donations above a miserly small figure must be made public..

        ..not hidden in secret slush-funds..

        ..(oh..!..how the top end of town must laugh..eh..?..having all the politicians..labour..national..and the mayor of nzs’ biggest city..

        ..in their pockets..)

        ..what a corrupt little third world pacific island nation we really are..eh..?

        ..and i haven’t even gone near our role as a money-laundering destination/favourite..eh..?..)

        phillip ure..

        • phillip ure 2.1.2.1

          and i loved the rejoinder from browns’ campaign-manager..

          ..and that response couldn’t be a clearer clarion call for reform..

          ..he whined a twofer-response/excuse..

          ..that:..’it’s legal’..and ‘everyone else does it’…

          ..not really/quite enough of a reason/excuse…eh..?

          phillip ure..

          • phillip ure 2.1.2.1.1

            until we get real campaign-finance reform..this corruption/subversion of the democratic process..at all levels…will continue..

            ..with the interests of the people..

            ..continuing to be at the end of a very long queue..

            ..it’s as simple as that..really..

            ..eh..?

            ..we need to ‘own’ our politicians…

            ..at all levels..

            ..not have them in thrall to that top end of town..

            ..as is the case now..

            ..doing their ‘business’..for them..

            phillip ure..

      • Anne 2.1.3

        Don’t the Nats have a major trust through which their campaign funds are filtered?

        Yes, the Waitemata Trust. Been going for years and in that time millions of anonymous dollars have been transferred through it and used in successive election campaigns. Add to that the other ‘private’ trusts where money is deposited for special purposes, and it’s obvious to anyone with half a brain that the NZ Herald is party to a dirty tricks campaign aimed at destroying public profile figures associated with Labour and/or the Greens. All of it designed to peak just before the general election which might only be six months away.

        Add to that the latest delay in the Dotcom extradition case from March to July (and if things don’t go according to plan no doubt the FBI will be willing to have it further delayed) then it will likely mean the ‘dirt and filth’ will hit their targets at the right time, leading to another election win for the Nats.

        May not be bang on, but a plausible theory…

        • Sacha 2.1.3.1

          Well-put. Election anouncement shortly after a wildly-optimistic Budget sounds about right – before rising interest rates start clobbering voters with mortgages later in the year. Opposition needs to be forcefully and continually joining those dots for people and offering a credible alternative.

        • phillip ure 2.1.3.2

          to give credit where credit is due..the herald on sunday today has a powerful clarion-call of its’ very own..

          ..(that will have national/the top end of town sweating..and should empower the labour party policy-makers/leadership..you’d think..?)

          ..they present a powerful/pungent call for meaningful political/policy-action to end child-poverty..

          ..lamenting how we are no longer like those scandanavian nations we used to be neck and neck with..

          ..in the ‘good-country’-stakes/rankings..

          ..and unequivocal in their call for us to get back there..again..

          ..so..a tip of the hat to them..for that..

          ..and let’s hope labour (finally?) realise they really have nothing to be scared of…eh..?

          ..that the ‘time’ for real and meaningful change…

          ..is now..

          ..phillip ure..

        • veutoviper 2.1.3.3

          I am also of the opinion that the general election will be called early, Anne – probably in mid-winter from about early July (with hopes of a low voter turnout due to weather).

          In terms of timelines next year:

          Early April 3014- Royal visit with lots of photo-ops for Key, and warm afterglow

          14 April 2014 – current scheduled date for the start of the Dotcom extradition hearing forecast to take several weeks: but expected to be further delayed again until at least July 2014 *

          * Anne, I note you suggest “Add to that the latest delay in the Dotcom extradition case from March to July” . I checked Google, and the current date is 14 April 2014, and there does not appear to have been an formal decision as yet to delay until July although speculation is that this will happen.

          May 2014 – Banks court case

          Mid to late May 2014 – Budget.

          IIRC, an election can be called on as little as six weeks’ notice, so my thinking is that Key will go for an announcement either just after the royal visit, or around Budget day to get the best PR from these two events – and to overshadow the Banks trial and any Dotcom ongoing court hearings on release of property taken (eg electronic records etc), compensation etc; and to get the election over before the Dotcom extradition hearing itself.

          I don’t believe that Key will hold out for a November election for the above reasons and also because IIRC there are one or two big international conferences/events in Nov 2014 that Key would want to attend which he couldn’t go to if the election was in Nov. I recall some discussion in the media a few months ago about these events – but cannot remember what they are. It is now bugging me, so will do some research.

          • Anne 2.1.3.3.1

            @ veutoviper
            Yes. I was aware the the FBI have only requested a delay until July, but they’re likely to get what they want. Then, if it suits Key and co., they will go for a further delay so that Dotcom’s info. on Key doesn’t hit the air-waves until after the election. I’m sure the FBI operatives on the Dotcom case don’t want to see a change in government!

            For the reasons you mention above – and others – the situation is fluid, so Key could end up out of luck. Fingers firmly crossed…

            • Tigger 2.1.3.3.1.1

              Funding is a crucial issue. Look at the mess of the USA where money literally enables the rich to buy laws. I’ve seen suggestions on this site in the past of how to fix this issue but until the general public understand what a problem it is nothing will be done. It’s not a vote getter and, in fact, as the electoral finance mess showed, it can be spun as a vote loser.

  3. philj 3

    “what a corrupt little third world pacific island nation we really are..eh..?”
    A sad, but true analysis. We sure have become leaner and meaner. The quick and the dead. Welcome to the future.

    • Tim 3.1

      +1
      There’s a simple measurement I usually apply – the simple and uncomplicated is usually the best

      IF we wish to be included in 1st world status, but can only do so by paying slave wages; minimising long fought-for benefits in order to remain viable
      THEN we aren’t and we’re only fooling ourselves. (see the other post on America)

      Problem is though that the race to the bottom for the many in order for a scared few to maintain their lifestyles is not necessary – it’s only their ideologically-driven and egotistical bullshit that makes it so.
      And if because of their short term view, they feel an increasing need to live behind PIN-only accessible gated communities, then more fool them.
      The tragedy is that the longer it’s all propped up on a firm foundation of solid bullshit and jellybeams, the more violent the outcome is likely to be.
      As the 70% or so versus the 30% moves more and more towards the 99.9 versus the 0.01% – I know where I’m putting my fiat currency. (Some smart smarmy cnut is probably already inventing some derivative in order to have a bob each way!!)
      ….. probably also why there are a few in the Labour Party who are desperately trying to delay the inevitable (i.e. kicking cans down roadways).
      …… my suggestion to them is to just double up on your security, engage another risk management consultant, pay ’em a bundle, see a touchy feely, drop a prozac or two (up the dose if necessary), and life will remain just peachy keen,

      I’ve never actually seen a time (in my lifetime) where the neo-liberal driven ideology means that the masses are ‘comfortable’ with ever-increasing disparity.
      BUT just imagine how angry they’ll be when the inevitable shit hits the fan, mortgagee sales become a reality, offspring have gone all feral, and they’re all looking for someone to blame.
      (There are some natural targets, and you can be sure they’ll be in that ‘economic minority’ of a 1 or possible 0.1%)
      Snot Rok Soince is it?

  4. Saarbo 4

    Yesterday I drove on the brand new highway between Taupiri to central Hamilton. why was this highway built? It must have cost well over a billion dollars (at a guess).

    How does the National government get so much credit for its economic management when it has built these roads at a huge cost, all of it increasing our huge debt burden…I don’t see our MSM attacking National for its inept economic management on this. The huge expenditure on roads in the Waikato and BOP I reckon will in the long term actually reduce GDP (but will improve the profit of some large trucking companies and Fonterra), I challenge any economist/anyone to prove otherwise.

    • BM 4.1

      http://www.nzta.govt.nz/network/projects/project.html?ID=63

      All this new roading development is brilliant.
      For me it one of the best things National has done.

      • Saarbo 4.1.1

        Spending billions on roads when we are so deeply in debt is NOT good economic management…clearly this proves that you are a fuckwit BM.

        • BM 4.1.1.1

          http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/industries/9560760/Welcome-to-the-boom-of-2014

          National have done a tremendous job, just goes to show what can be achieved when we get some decent people at the helm, people with skill and talent.

          Only a complete idiot would want labour in power, you’d struggle to find a bigger pile of know nothing, pie in the sky numpties than the current labour line up.

          Compete dross.

          • North 4.1.1.1.1

            “Compete” dross BM ? You’re doing fabulously well BM.

          • Saarbo 4.1.1.1.2

            I guess you add a bit of colour BM…but you are as thick as pig shit (or is that Bat Shit).

          • Foreign Waka 4.1.1.1.3

            Skill and Talent? Really? Are you sure? Who are we talking about? Mr Brownlee, whose “political clout” has prevented countless people in Christchurch to have a roof over their heads after 3 (!) years? This is by the way inexcusable and one wonders whether we see in the run up to the election a sudden increase in Insurance payouts. Just do be clear, commercial law is passed in parliament and not by Insurance companies – or is it?
            Or is it Mrs Bennett who had the benefit of the social system when it was available and used it to the full extent only to deny it everybody else since she has the portfolio? Has she found in her heart that all of her “success” is wrong?
            Or lets go to Mr Bridges, who supports deep see drilling and fracking. Interesting though, I was not aware that a lawyer has such extended education to understand the issues of engineering and biology so to be able to make such decisions. Furthermore, being able to override any sovereign interest amid many documented disadvantages and just unilateral make the call?

            Yes, lets keep some hope alive. I will vote green as this hopefully gives the next generation a voice.

          • Draco T Bastard 4.1.1.1.4

            I suspect that boom will last until the prediction wears off – sometime in January.

          • halfcrown 4.1.1.1.5

            “National have done a tremendous job, just goes to show what can be achieved when we get some decent people at the helm, people with skill and talent.”

            Stop taking the piss BM

      • leftriteleft 4.1.2

        And here in Hawke Bay, we all love the new Rail Line to Gisborne.
        Or is that Gisbin (TV weather).
        YEAH RITE.

    • Tiger Mountain 4.2

      Having lived in the Far North for years I am always in awe of Waikato roads when travelling there, even the secondary routes beautifully sealed and cambered. People who travel the South Island regularly tell a similar story of great roads in a sparsely populated landscape.

      according to the Northland Regional Council…
      “Of the 6,530 kilometres of road in Northland, 753 kilometres are State Highway with the remaining being local roads. Approximately 65% of these local roads are unsealed, compared to the national average of 40%. The proportion of unsealed roads, many of which have poor foundation conditions and alignments, is one of the highest in the country”.

      One could make a case for Waikato and South Island as major tory voters getting special ‘two lane blacktop’ treatment. So what about the Far North? also consistent tory electorate voters (though when you add in the Te Tai Tokerau and the non national general electorate vote the numbers don’t look so good for the torys)–just the land that time forgot? The North has high suicide rates and lots of car crashes and little economic development for decades.

      • BM 4.2.1

        How about the puhoi-wellsford route

        http://www.nzta.govt.nz/consultation/puhoi-wellsford-2/index.html

        That’s got to help speed things up.

      • BM 4.2.2

        You might also find this interesting.

        http://www.nzherald.co.nz/northern-advocate/news/article.cfm?c_id=1503450&objectid=11096356

        With the Norwegians currently looking for oil off the Northland coast, could be boom times ahead for those up North.

      • Linz 4.2.3

        One could make a case for Waikato and South Island as major tory voters getting special ‘two lane blacktop’ treatment.
        Not so sure about that. I live in the Waitaki electorate and our road is so bad it’s a favourite with rally car drivers. We’ve had the Rally of Otago blatt past on numerous occasions, except only from one direction. It’s too dangerous going the other. Too many cars went over banks. Bloody good job. The environment bit back.

      • Murray Olsen 4.2.4

        TM, quite a few people I know in the North don’t want the sort of roads they have in the Waikato. They see one great benefit of gravel roads – they scare the Jafas into keeping their Remuera tractors south of Wellsford. On the other hand, quite a few of them would like to see decent train and bus services.

        • Anne 4.2.4.1

          Don’t forget the North Shore tractors MO. Arrogant drivers who think they own the road and it’s the women who are the worst. One of them screamed abuse at me once for driving up to an intersection on the inside of her. Plenty of room for me to turn left and she to the right. Told her after the screaming match subsided that she was a stupid bitch. She then tried to ram me but I was too quick for her. Contemplated carrying a bag of stones in my glove box in case it happened again. A smashed rear window would have been a satisfactory outcome but decided it was too risky. It would be my luck to have a cop car come ambling past at the moment of impact.

          • Murray Olsen 4.2.4.1.1

            I was out fishing with a mate once and some stupid yuppie in his 15m gin palace managed to catch a few snapper. He promptly filleted them and threw the remains overboard, which every snapper fisher knows is just not on. It puts the rest right off the bite. My mate started throwing sinkers at him, which worried me a bit, since my tinny was only 4.4m. Luckily the idiot wasn’t the aggressive type and left rather than run us over.

        • Linz 4.2.4.2

          Same.

  5. North 5

    “just who it is who ‘owns’/’bought’ influence”. Perfectly said PU.

    Without legislation along the lines you suggest we facilitate the availability of massive corruption to the often mutually inclusive wealthy and the holders of power, derived from democratic process, ironically.

    Start with strict liability from the top dog down in both the donor and donee camps. Make glib lies like “the law is unclear” and “I’m a busy person I relied on assurances from my trusted minions” and “Oh I forgot” unavailable to the wealthy and the holders of power.

    Deploy demonstrably heavy penalties directed according to statutory presumption in favour of imprisonment topped off with additional truly massive financial penalties for donor and donee and permanent disqualification for both from the electoral process at any level.

    In cases of political and electoral corruption let judges’ sentencing notes contain stern denunciation of offending which “sheets to the core of justice and democracy”. As presently occurs in obviously far less-reaching cases of attempting to/perverting the course of justice where some fool engages falsehood given on oath to protect a family member or mate charged with an offence.

    Acknowledging that for the sake of brevity I overlook Brown, why please did Mediaworks pay for the witheringly castigating holier-than-thou Cameron Brewer’s holiday on the Gold Coast ? If the motivation were truly impeccable there would be more bang-for-the-buck in widely vaunted donation to The Auckland City Mission.

    • BM 5.1

      He was chief executive of the Newmarket Business Association for a long time.

      The trip was probably a thanks from media works for Brewer pushing work their way.

      • North 5.1.1

        That’s a risibly inadequate response/rationalisation BM.

        How possibly can you distinguish between favours given after the event and favours given before the event ? The ‘distinction’ is facile and meaningless especially in the context of a course of conduct dynamic.

        You’re a supporter of corruption clearly. It’s what makes the world of the wealthy and the powerful go round what ? Such a democrat you BM.

        No…….piss off with your moral bankruptcy.

  6. chris73 6

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/industries/9560760/Welcome-to-the-boom-of-2014

    – Well thats a positive headline from the Herald for a change

    • isn’t that great..!..chris 73..!

      ..no more excuses now not to declare war on poverty..eh..?

      ..no more ‘but we can’t afford it’-whines/excuses..eh..?

      ..that is ‘positive’..

      ..those ‘boom-times’..and a financial-transaction-tax on the banksters..

      ..should just about get it sorted..eh..?

      ..no more poverty..no more third world diseases..eh..?

      ..gee..!..chris 73..and maybe we can start to bay back some of the $60+ billio nthis bunch of tory/clowns/fuckwits have run up..eh..?

      ..with their borrow and givre to the rich policies/..

      phillip ure..

  7. tricledrown 7

    Kickbacks from Nactionals slush fund.
    pay back to National party for bailout or was it to organize the bailout.
    Mc Cready will sort it out.

  8. Linz 8

    Thinking about the traditional story of Christmas and all, my pick for the Three Wise Men:
    the Dalai Lama, Desmond Tutu and Pope Francis. I’m sure they’d have a lot of fun riding across the desert together on camels.

  9. amirite 9

    Mildly surprised by a NZ Herald editorial today:

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/politics/news/article.cfm?c_id=280&objectid=11178946

    ‘What Cunliffe will be seeking this year is to capitalise on the sense rolling through the country that the National-led administration is arrogant and indifferent to the beliefs and needs of ordinary New Zealanders. But what he and the rest of us need to keep front of mind is the plight of those who cannot even aspire to ordinariness.

    The Child Poverty Monitor report, released three weeks ago by Children’s Commissioner Russell Wills, shows that a quarter of our children are living in poverty, some of it severe and persistent. Poverty-related illness, such as asthma and bronchitis, reached record highs.

    With every passing year, it becomes harder to be proud of a country that was once a world-leading social democracy. The small Scandinavian countries we used to rub shoulders with at the top of the league tables have maintained their positions as we have plummeted.

    It is not about resources, but about political will. It’s something that politicians and voters should devote thought to as another year dawns.’

    For once, they got it right.

  10. tricledrown 10

    Boringly Myopic.
    No rest for the wicked.
    I thought you’d be off to HawaiiKey or pukett slinking down cool drinks with Cactus Kate.

  11. lprent 11

    Ark! That is so annoying. Looking at the feed and considering why the Feeds (now with the bulk feeders TDB and Scoop politics separated so the smaller blogs get front billing) are duplicating.

    Obvious. There are 3 web servers running (two front and one backup) all looking at the same database and set of files. It has the same problem as sphinx search had – they’re ALL updating the feed database. When they happen to coincide, I get up to three copies of the same RSS record.

    Should be fixable by checking for duplicates when updating the database like the duplicate comment fix. But a better idea will be to do that update from a single server.

  12. Tracey 12

    Will anyone in greens or labour begin to respond to this economic “good” news with

    for whom. How long will ordinary nzers continue to believe and vote for the myth begun in the 80s by douglas’ mythical good news. The richardsons mother of all bad news… and so on until today. There is no evidence that this type of good news is actually good for anyone but those trumpetting the good news. The banks. The stock market. The reps of big business and politicians.

    theres a reason simon power went from justice minister to westpac millionaire and it has nothing to do with wealth trickling down.

  13. tricledrown 13

    Simon Power
    Realised his chance to become leader PM was gone so what’s the point of hanging round doing long hours for a relative pittance when you can get millions instead of thousands.

  14. Morrissey 14

    LIARS OF OUR TIME

    No. 39: George W. Bush

    * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

    “We will be standing with the people of Afghanistan and Iraq until their hopes for freedom and liberty are fulfilled.”

    * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

    —President George W. Bush, 21 September 2004
    http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A38139-2004Sep21_2.html

    More liars….
    No. 38 Jeremy Hansen: “I read a great column by Paul Thomas in the Herald….”
    No. 37 Alan Seay: “You know, we respect the rights of people to protest….”
    No. 36 Paul Dykzeul: “No we won’t be changing the Listener; it’s got a terrific editor….”
    No. 35 Mark Jennings: “I think Paul’s a bright guy and he will be able to bring a discipline to his performance….”
    No. 34 Willie Jackson: “I thought we’d been sensitive with her yesterday….”
    No. 33 Supt. Bill Searle: “I think what’s happened here is the police officers have done their very best….”
    No. 32 Sonny-Bill Williams: “It’s good to get the win over Papua-New Guinea, a strong Papua-New Guinea side, aahhhh….”
    No. 31 John Palino: “Suggestions that I am somehow orchestrating some grand right-wing conspiracy to unseat Len after the election are so wrong…”
    No. 30 Alan Dershowitz: “I will give $10,000 to the PLO if you can find a historical fact in my book that you can prove to be false.”
    No. 29 John Banks: “I have nothing to hide and nothing to fear. And never, ever would I ever knowingly sign a false electoral return. Never ever would I ever.”

    No. 28 John Kerry: “…we are especially sensitive, Chuck and I, to never again asking any member of Congress to take a vote on faulty intelligence.”
    
No. 27 Lyse Doucet: “I am there for those without a voice.”
    
No. 26 Sam Wallace: “So here we are—Otahuhu. It’s just a great place to be, really.”


    No. 25 Margaret Thatcher: “…no British government involvement of any kind…with Khmer Rouge…”


    No. 24 John Key: “…at the end of the day I, like most New Zealanders, value the role of the fourth estate…”
    


No. 23 Jay Carney: “…expel Mr Snowden back to the U.S. to face justice…”
    


No. 22 Mike Bush: “Bruce Hutton had integrity beyond reproach.”
    


No. 21 Tim Groser: “I think the relationship is genuinely in outstanding form.”
    


No. 20 John Key: “But if the question is do we use the United States or one of our other partners to circumvent New Zealand law then the answer is categorically no.”
    


No. 19 Matthew Hooton: “It is ridiculous to say that unions deliver higher wages! They DON’T!”


    No. 18 Ant Strachan: “The All Blacks won the RWC 2011 because of outstanding defence!”



    No. 17 Stephen Franks: “Peter has been such a level-headed, safe pair of hands.”



    No. 16 Phil Kafcaloudes: “Tony Abbott…hasn’t made any mistakes over the past eighteen months.”



    No. 15 Donald Rumsfeld: “I did not lie… Colin Powell did not lie.”
    


No. 14 Colin Powell: “a post-9/11 nexus between Iraq and terrorist organizations…connections are now emerging…”
    
No. 13 Barack Obama: “Simply put, these strikes have saved lives.”
    




No. 12 U.K. Ministry of Defence: “Protecting the Afghan civilian population is one of ISAF and the UK’s top priorities.”
    


No. 11 Brendan O’Connor: “Australia’s approach to refugees is compassionate and generous.”



    No. 10 Boris Johnson: “Londoners have… the best police in the world to look after us and keep us safe.”
    


No. 9 NewstalkZB PR dept: “News you NEED! Fast, fair, accurate!”
    


No. 8 Simon Bridges: “I don’t mean to duck the question….”



    No. 7 Nigel Morrison: “Quite frankly, they’ve been VERY tough.”




    No. 6 Herald PR dept: “Congratulations—you’re reading New Zealand’s best newspaper.”




    No. 5 Rawdon Christie: “…a FORMIDABLE replacement, it seems, is Claudette Hauiti.”
    




No. 4 Willie and J.T.: “The X-Factor. Nah, nah, there’s some GREAT talent there!”
    



No. 3 John Key: “Yeah we hold MPs to a higher standard.”
    



No. 2 Colin Craig: “Oh, I have a GREAT sense of humour.”




    No. 1 Barack Obama: “Margaret Thatcher was one of the great champions of freedom and liberty.”

  15. Tracey 15

    No. 29 John Banks: “I have nothing to hide and nothing to fear. And never, ever would I ever knowingly sign a false electoral return. Never ever would I ever.”

    and the best way to ensure this would be to never ever sign something without reading it first.

    • Morrissey 15.1

      …and the best way to ensure this would be to never ever sign something without reading it first.

      Are you trying to suggest that Banks made an honest mistake?

  16. Tracey 16

    No. I am saying if he truly wanted to never ever make a false return he would fucking read everything before he signed otherwise he is displaying wilful ignorance which is not the same as honest mistake.

    is english gour second language Morrisey

  17. Morrissey 17

    No. I am saying if he truly wanted to never ever make a false return he would fucking read everything before he signed otherwise he is displaying wilful ignorance which is not the same as honest mistake.
    Fair comment.

    is english gour [sic] second language Morrisey
    I accept your point, Tracey.

  18. Tracey 18

    It was a genuine question morrisey. Not sarcastic. Didnt know how else to ask

    • McFlock 18.1

      I suspect that this universe is his second reality.

      • Morrissey 18.1.1

        TRACEY: Is english your second language Morrisey?
        MORRISSEY: [conciliatorily] I accept your point, Tracey.
        TRACEY: [earnestly It was a genuine question morrisey. Not sarcastic. Didn’t know how else to ask.
        McFLOCK: [sardonically] I suspect that this universe is his second reality.

        ……Long pause. Silence, then a mocking slow clap can be heard……

        MORRISSEY: Oh dear. Looks like we’ve just unearthed another one of the Melody Rules scriptwriters.

  19. xtasy 19

    The WAR on WELFARE will continue in 2014, but like she did for those parents or grand-parents looking after a child (other than a foster child), Paula Bennett will try to manipulate the media and the wider public, into believing that actually “more” is being done to “support” those in need. The truth is kept from the wider public, while a nasty agenda, all based on nothing but “cost saving” and “cutting back” of services, is followed.

    See this pre-Christmas sweetener Bennett released smartly just over a week before the holidays:
    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11172923

    What does a few hundred dollars a year achieve and change, I ask? Yes, every bit of help should be appreciated, I agree. But this is “help” that patches up gaps and cracks in the income situation of many, that have been caused in another places, where households face pressures.

    And then it comes from one with this bizarre sense of opportunism mixed with “humour”:
    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11176800

    “Sip It Sweetie”, that is her motto now. Thank you Paula, we know it was all about YOURSELF after all.

    As for the “help” for sick and disabled on benefits, we will watch with great concern how the new outsourced work capability testing will be implemented from February 2014.

    Remember this:
    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/9356043/Contractors-to-assess-sick-and-disabled-for-work
    http://www.odt.co.nz/news/dunedin/278489/tests-disabled-flawed-model

    For all those, that actually care to learn a bit more about all this stuff, and what is behind the “welfare reforms”, that are now affecting thousands in a very bad way, have a study of information that can be found on this small website:

    http://nzsocialjusticeblog2013.wordpress.com/2013/12/28/designated-doctors-used-by-work-and-income-some-also-used-by-acc-the-truth-about-them/

    http://nzsocialjusticeblog2013.wordpress.com/2013/09/07/the-health-and-disability-panel-and-its-hand-picked-members/

    http://nzsocialjusticeblog2013.wordpress.com/2013/09/02/medical-and-work-capability-assessments-based-on-the-controversial-bio-psycho-social-model/

    That site is still a bit new and under (experiemental) construction, but accessing and using the many resources and links offered there should assist many to see, assess and understand what is really going on under this hideous government, with nothing but contempt for those at the bottom of the heap! Putting pressures, fears and expectations on sick and disabled to compete for work, and dressing this up as “caring for” and “assisting” them, that is worse than being mean spirited. It is disgustingly dishonest and criminal.

    For instance mental health funding has been capped or cut for many services here in Auckland. So where is the extra “help” and “treatment” coming from? It will be GPs prescribing generic and non generic psychiatric drugs, and others sent to self help “coping groups”, to live with pain and impairments. Most extra funding has gone straight to MSD and WINZ, for more case management, none else.

    Best wishes for 2014, keep up the FIGHT for JUSTICE!

    • infused 20.1

      Too bad that hasn’t been announced for the last two years… oh wait…

      • lprent 20.1.1

        I thought that Bill English has been announcing the end of the following year return to higher interest rates (as a result of his governments disinterested neglect of the economy) ever since 2009? He has built it into every budget up until 2012 when he finally became aware after the election that making a foolish prophecy wasn’t the same as making it happen.

        Or have you forgotten?

        I suspect there will be a slight interest rate rise next year, which will immediately stall the retail economy again. It will then stagnate for another year or so. I think that the same thing will happen offshore.

        Having a jobless ‘recovery’ is a completely fragile and essentially useless recovery. Thought people would have realised this over the last couple of hundred years.

        • Draco T Bastard 20.1.1.1

          I suspect there will be a slight interest rate rise next year, which will immediately stall the retail economy again.

          Which is, of course, exactly what it’s supposed to do. Raising interest rates is done to cool down an over-heating economy but, for some strange reason, it only ever seems to initiate housing bubbles as the hot money from other countries floods in fueling the money creation process by local banks.

          Having a jobless ‘recovery’ is a completely fragile and essentially useless recovery. Thought people would have realised this over the last couple of hundred years.

          I think you’ll find that economists and RWNJs really like jobless recoveries because it indicates an increase in profit while wages are kept down thus preventing a wage/price inflation spiral.

          • lprent 20.1.1.1.1

            Yeah, causes short-term profit taking. The problem is that they run out of steam, fall back to a lower level, then repeat as a lower amplitude.

            Ask the Japanese. They have had them for nearly two decades now. I’m also pretty sure that Europe would be in that state as well if they hadn’t kept expanding the size of the EU.

  20. lprent 21

    Damn – sorry about that. Some code didn’t copy over properly.

    • weka 21.1

      nice upgrade though. Looks good now.

    • lprent 21.2

      Yeah. Been meaning to separate the larger feed suppliers from the smaller (and often more interesting) blogs. Took the opportunity to do some upgrades to the other tabbed dialog as well – and it allowed me to dispose of some old residual jquery.

      edit: opps – meant to have been a reply to weka at 21.1..

  21. joe90 22

    heh

    17 April. Shots of the cabinet and the ex-cabinet at Lady Thatcher’s funeral in St Paul’s just emphasise how consistently cowardly most of them were, the only time they dared to stand up to her when eventually they kicked her out. What also galls is the notion that Tory MPs throw in almost as an afterthought, namely that her lack of a sense of humour was just a minor failing, of no more significance than being colourblind, say, or mildly short-sighted. In fact to have no sense of humour is to be a seriously flawed human being. It’s not a minor shortcoming; it shuts you off from humanity. Mrs Thatcher was a mirthless bully and should have been buried, as once upon a time monarchs used to be, in the depths of the night.

    http://www.lrb.co.uk/v36/n01/alan-bennett/diary

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