Open mike 30/01/2020

66 comments on “Open mike 30/01/2020 ”

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1. Dennis Frank 1

   30 January 2020 at 8:00 am

   When in crisis, establish a committee. Britain's adherence to tradition: "UN published a report showing that preventing more than 1.5C meant cutting greenhouse gas emissions by 7.6% every year between now and 2030: a much steeper trajectory than the CCC’s. The committee has set the wrong target, for the wrong date." https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/jan/29/climate-targets-committee-on-climate-change-report

   "Its target for reforestation is so feeble that the UK would still have less than half the average current European forest cover by 2050."

   Well, that would be due to selecting mainstreamers onto the committee, as per tradition. Who would expect mainstreamers to be able to discern a crisis when it was happening??

   "When firefighters arrive at a burning building, they don’t set themselves a target of rescuing three of the five inhabitants. They seek – aware that they may not succeed – to rescue everyone they can. Their aim is to maximise the number of lives they save. In the climate emergency, our aim should be to maximise both the reduction of emissions and the drawing down of carbon dioxide already in the atmosphere. There is no safe level of global heating: every increment kills."

   Quite right, George, but why expect average folk to comprehend this? They were born to be victims. Democracy, via it's representation of the typical by the typical, ensures that outcome. Only a meritocracy would produce better results.

   "Even if you say “this target is the minimum”, as the CCC does, politicians treat it as merely the line they need to cross. At this point, they fulfil their legal duty, even if they fail to fulfil their wider duty of care." Oh good, he does get it.
   • RedLogix 1.1

     30 January 2020 at 8:35 am

     Well George Monbiot is another of us 'techno-fantasists' who has asked we actually do something about the crisis for a very long time now. As distinct from exploiting the issue to prop up an underlying agenda that is.
     • Climaction 1.1.1

       31 January 2020 at 9:27 am

       Monitor better be careful least he’s labelled an alarmist and a denier
2. Dennis Frank 2

   30 January 2020 at 8:10 am

   "Trump wrote of Bolton: “… if I listened to him, we would be in World War Six by now, and goes out and IMMEDIATELY writes a nasty & untrue book. All Classified National Security. Who would do this?”" Ah, Bolton?

   "On Wednesday, Trump also complained about Bolton’s timing. He wrote: “Why didn’t John Bolton complain about this “nonsense” a long time ago, when he was very publicly terminated. He said, not that it matters, NOTHING!”" https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/jan/29/trump-john-bolton-twitter-impeachment-testify

   So it doesn't matter that Bolton said nothing. Which is why Trump is angry? He thinks it ought to matter? He ought to just chill. Tweet that Bolton is alt-rightist, or something, "whereas I'm just right".

   "With an unknown number of Republican senators still undecided on the question of calling witnesses, McConnell could still get the votes he needs to block witnesses and stop the trial from reeling off into unpredictable – and potentially hazardous – territory for the president. At least four Republicans would need to join Democrats to force witness testimony."

   Are there at least four Republican senators with a moral compass and an operational spine? I hope so. We'll know soon.
   • RedLogix 2.1

     30 January 2020 at 8:55 am

     Exactly … Bolton is one of the maddest pro-war hawkes in Washington, and now the left is going to embrace him as a hero. pffft….
     • Andre 2.1.1

       30 January 2020 at 9:30 am

       Amusement at the sight of a RWNJ icon now making life very uncomfortable for the Repug kakistocracy, and watching the RWNJ propaganda machine turn rabid on him, is a bit different to embracing him as a hero.
       • RedLogix 2.1.1.1

         30 January 2020 at 9:38 am

         Bolton's agenda being fairly transparent, remove the President who became an obstacle for his warmongering. And this we should be amused by?
         • Andre 2.1.1.1.1

           30 January 2020 at 9:58 am

           Well, the removal ain't gonna happen. And if somehow it actually did happen, Pence seems very unlikely to put Bolton back into a position where he can indulge his warmongering. Because Bolton would be extremely unpopular with the Drumpfkins Pence would need to keep onside to get elected in November this year (and 2024), coz of disloyalty to the fake-tan fuhrer.

           So yeah, I'm amused. Especially since the longer the ratfight between the two petulant overstuffed egos goes on, the likelier we are to see the end of both of them sooner rather than later.

           edit: here’s a short summary of a few of the more notable incidents of Spray-tan Stalin’s attempts at witness intimidation.

           https://edition.cnn.com/2020/01/29/politics/trump-bolton-tweet-witness-intimidation/index.html
           • RedLogix 2.1.1.1.1.1

             30 January 2020 at 12:23 pm

             So the takeaway is that we're impeaching Trump for trying not to send weapons to inflame a totally crazy conflict with Russia.

             Do I have that right?

             Yeah I get the Biden thing, nothing to see there. All good Dems have sons sitting on boards of overseas companies. Tommy Suharto being an outstanding exemplar in this game. 😄
             • Andre …

               30 January 2020 at 1:32 pm

               The military aid was a bipartisan measure approved in both chambers of Congress. To support a prospective NATO member suffering an unprovoked invasion and apparent territorial grab from Russia. This wasn't the first time in recent years, remember Crimea?

               In the US, Congress holds the power of the purse, to decide what gets funded and when. This is the basis for the Government Accountability Office concluding that withholding the aid was in fact a violation of law.

               When it comes to the Bidens, the key question is did Joe Biden take any action to help Hunter into his cushy lucrative position he was totally unqualified for, or subsequently do anything that helped Hunter and Burisma? Or was Hunter just freelance cashing in on daddy's name, as the families of powerful politicians have done since time immemorial? Billy Carter and Neil Bush are just the first two names that immediately come to mind.

               The evidence seems very clear that Hunter was freelancing. To my knowledge it has yet to be definitely shown that Joe was even aware of Hunter joining up with Burisma prior to it happening.

               As for Joe's actions getting Shokin fired, there was bipartisan agreement within the US, and among US allies, that it was necessary to help Ukraine try to reduce it's corruption problem. Since Shokin was not doing anything to investigate the real problems at Burisma, and there was a chance Shokin's replacement actually would dig in to Burisma, there's a good argument that Joe's actions getting Shokin fired were at best neutral for Hunter's interests, and were in fact much more likely to damage Hunter's interests.

               https://www.businessinsider.com.au/biden-aides-shunned-2014-hunter-ukraine-beau-death-addiciton-report-2019-11?r=US&IR=T
               • RedLogix …

                 30 January 2020 at 1:53 pm

                 To support a prospective NATO member suffering an unprovoked invasion and apparent territorial grab from Russia.

                 Russia and Ukraine are very tightly linked nations, historically, culturally and socially. Many people in Russia will have family or business connections in Ukraine, the two nations Russia have very deep connections, going back centuries or more. The Russian intervention was a direct response to the deposing of Victor Vanukovych by an American backed 'Colour Revolution' in 2014.

                 Whatever you may think of Yanukovych or the merits of the US destabilising other nations (think back to their inglorious record of meddling in Latin America), there is no question that a legitimately, democratically President was deposed and long standing Russian interests were under threat.

                 In essence a group of anti-Russian warmongers in Washington saw an opportunity to try and split Ukraine away from Russia and hopefully grab Crimean naval ports that have been a critical component of Russian military strategy since forever.

                 To suggest the Russian move to secure the Crimea was 'unprovoked' is disingenuous at best.

                 To my knowledge it has yet to be definitely shown that Joe was even aware of Hunter joining up with Burisma.

                 Ah the good old plausible deniability defense. If so then the Dems should have no problem with the Biden's giving evidence under oath to the Senate. Because if witnesses are allowed, it will be a sword that could cut both ways.

                 This whole shit show comes down to a bunch of pro-war, anti-Russian maniacs in Washington who have been deeply frustrated that Trump wouldn't enthusiastically enable their warmongering. I'm certain Russia is not an innocent by-stander in all of this, no great power is. But to indulge a zombie paranoia, an irrational hangover of the Cold War, the very worst aspects of US politics, as the underlying motive to remove Trump … well it's a morally toxic swamp I'd personally want to steer well clear of.
                 • Andre …

                   30 January 2020 at 2:12 pm

                   I didn't see anything in your wikipedia link to support the assertion that American meddling was a significant factor in the widespread citizen protests that led Vanukovych running for it.

                   But there's an awful lot there that explains why Ukrainians would be so unhappy with Vanukovych, to the point of massive uprisings to get rid of him. So not much provocation to Russia that might justify invasion, just an opportunity for a bit of easy expansionism for Russia that they happily grabbed.

                   As for the insinuation that the Democrats in the House and Senate are part of of some sort of pro-war anti-Russian deep-state, acting out frustration that war wasn't forthcoming – sorry I can't help you take that distorting lens off your worldview.

                   The simple fact is that the withholding of congress-approved and taxpayer funded aid in order to extort a petty personal political benefit from a foreign country is such an egregious violation of the public trust that to not act would mean there simply aren't any boundaries or constraints anymore.
                   • Drowsy M. Kram …

                     30 January 2020 at 2:21 pm

                     No constraints/boundaries, but the best border wall – America 1st!

                     "Live without limits." – Trump gets it! What a shambles.

                     https://edition.cnn.com/2020/01/29/politics/us-border-wall-falls-over-high-winds/index.html
                   • RedLogix …

                     30 January 2020 at 2:35 pm

                     I didn't see anything in your wikipedia link to support the assertion that American meddling was a significant factor in the widespread citizen protests that led Vanukovych running for it.

                     As Julian Assange will tell you, publishing hard evidence of this nature is a now a high crime punishable by an effective death sentence. So there is every reason to not expect any media of record to back up proof this assertion with leaked US documents. That is after all the smoking gun you would require, and it's now highly dangerous to publish material of this nature.

                     However there were numerous allegations made at the time and even a cursory search will find many different sources all more or less saying the same thing, that covert US actors were almost certainly involved in the Colour Revolution to some degree.

                     And given that the US Congress subsequently voted to back the revolution with arms … well the dots aren’t all that far apart.
                 • joe90 …

                   30 January 2020 at 5:19 pm

                   Russia and Ukraine are very tightly linked nations,

                   Well Russia has spent three hundred years erasing Ukrainian language, culture, faiths and indigenous traditions.

                   https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russification_of_Ukraine
             • Andre …

               30 January 2020 at 1:54 pm

               Also, as for the semantics of "trying not to send weapons to inflame a totally crazy conflict":

               I'm not aware of there being any evidence of the craziness or otherwise of the conflict with Russia being a factor in the attempt to withhold the aid. All the evidence and testimony points to the motivation being an attempt to extort Ukraine into smearing Biden for personal political benefit.

               It's the personal political benefit part of it that's the grounds for impeachment.
               • RedLogix …

                 30 January 2020 at 2:18 pm

                 I'm not aware of there being any evidence of the craziness or otherwise of the conflict with Russia being a factor in the attempt to withhold the aid.

                 True, but without the ability to mind-read Trump (I'm not sure who would be game for such a mis-adventure) we cannot know that he had at least some reluctance to extend a conflict that every sane person knows is an utter folly. Ukraine and Russia had a family squabble, the USA has no business pouring petrol onto it.

                 It's the personal political benefit part of it that's the grounds for impeachment.

                 Indeed, but it's entirely an assumption that this was the sole reason. It is very easy to show there was also perfectly reasonable national interest grounds as well.
                 • Andre …

                   30 January 2020 at 2:30 pm

                   If there were any component of national interest or desire to avoid inflaming the situation further factoring into the decision-making, don't you think they would have tried to make that case by now?

                   The closest they've come to trying, and quickly abandoned, was bullshitting that it was about corruption in general. That fell apart when it was shown there was zero interest in corruption in general, just in dirt on the Bidens. That argument was further undermined by the news that Hair Furor wants to change laws so it's legal for US citizens and corporates to bribe foreigners.

                   I'm not aware of any attempt to argue that withholding the aid was motivated by a desire to influence the conflict. It was purely transactional, the dirt for the dollars.
                   • RedLogix …

                     30 January 2020 at 3:45 pm

                     I'm certainly not of a mind to defend Trump, but that does not preclude pointing out that the context of this impeachment reeks of some very dubious motives that progressives should probably be very cautious of.
                 • Macro …

                   30 January 2020 at 2:47 pm

                   It's the personal political benefit part of it that's the grounds for impeachment.

                   Indeed, but it's entirely an assumption that this was the sole reason. It is very easy to show there was also perfectly reasonable national interest grounds as well.

                   Oh! come now! There is a raft of circumstantial evidence that there was no other reason for it it. Day after day there has been one revelation after another – if you had been following – that links the withholding of funds to the "announcement of an investigation into the Bidens" that is all it was – it didn't even have to actually occur. Just the fact that the Ukrainian Govt was to investigate the Bidens would be sufficient.

                   some links here:

                   • 09/09/19 House committees launch probe of Trump, Giuliani and Ukraine2
                   • 09/09/19 Three House Committees Launch Wide-Ranging Investigation into Trump-Giuliani Ukraine Scheme
                   • 09/19/19 Rudy Giuliani denies asking Ukraine to investigate Biden – before admitting it 4
                   • 09/26/19 Giuliani Sits at the Center of the Ukraine Controversy
                   • 10/07/19 Florida businessmen with Giuliani, Ukraine ties won’t comply with impeachment inquiry 2
                   • 10/10/19 Rudy Giuliani’s Ukraine Henchmen Arrested Over Trump Group Donation
                   • 10/10/19 Two business associates of Trump’s personal attorney Giuliani have been arrested on campaign finance charges
                   • 10/10/19 2 Giuliani Associates Arrested With One-Way Tickets at U.S. Airport 2
                   • 10/10/19 Two Giuliani Associates Who Helped Him on Ukraine Charged With Campaign-Finance Violations
                   • 10/10/19 Two Giuliani Associates Who Helped Him on Ukraine Charged With Campaign-Finance Violations
                   • 10/10/19 Giuliani’s Ukraine Team: In Search of Influence, Dirt and Money
                   • 10/11/19 Rudy Giuliani’s relationship with arrested men is subject of criminal investigation: Sources
                   • 10/11/19 Giuliani Is Said to Be Under Investigation for Ukraine Work
                   • 10/11/19 Indicted Giuliani associate worked on behalf of Ukrainian oligarch Firtash
                   • 10/12/19 Trump tells reporters he doesn’t know if Giuliani is still his attorney
                   • 10/13/19 Trump backs Giuliani, but some aides wish he would cut ties
                   • 10/14/19 Lawyer: Giuliani associate ‘being cooperative’ with House impeachment probe
                   • 10/14/19 Trump’s ex-Russia adviser told impeachment investigators of Giuliani’s efforts in Ukraine
                   • 10/15/19 Giuliani says he won’t comply with a congressional subpoena
                   • 10/15/19 Pence, Giuliani defy demands by Congress for documents
                   • 10/15/19 Pence refuses House request to provide documents related to Ukraine call 1
                   • 10/15/19 Pence, Giuliani Say They Won’t Give Congress Documents in Trump Impeachment Inquiry
                   • 10/15/19 Giuliani and a key federal agency defy House Democrats’ impeachment subpoena
                   • 10/15/19 Giuliani pressed Trump to eject Muslim cleric from U.S., a top priority of Turkish president, former officials say
                   • 10/19/19 Giuliani pushed Trump administration to grant a visa to a Ukrainian official promising dirt on Democrats
                   • 10/23/19 Indicted Giuliani Associate Ties Case to Trump 1
                   • 10/25/19 Rudy Giuliani butt-dials NBC reporter, heard discussing need for cash and trashing Bidens 1
                   • 10/30/19 State Department official to testify that John Bolton warned about influence of Rudy Giuliani on Ukraine
                   • 11/08/19 Giuliani associates pressed past president of Ukraine to announce Biden investigation in exchange for state visit
                   • 11/08/19 Giuliani Associates Urged Ukraine’s Prior President to Open Biden, Election Probes
                   • 11/08/19 Trump and Giuliani remain in touch as impeachment drama heats up
                   • 11/10/19 Giuliani Associate Says He Gave Demand for Biden Inquiry to Ukrainians
                   • 11/13/19 Rudy Giuliani’s Op-Ed Defense Of Donald Trump Backfires Spectacularly
                   • 11/14/19 Giuliani Faces U.S. Probe on Campaign Finance, Lobbying Breaches
                   • 11/15/19 Federal Prosecutors Probe Giuliani’s Links to Ukrainian Energy Projects 1
                   • 11/22/19 Exclusive: CEO of Ukraine State Gas Firm Preparing to Testify in Giuliani Probe
                   • 11/22/19 Documents released to ethics group show Giuliani, Pompeo contacts before Ukraine ambassador ousted
                   • 11/22/19 Records show contact between Pompeo and Giuliani ahead of Ukraine ambassador’s ouster
                   • 11/23/19 White House helped arrange call between Giuliani and Pompeo after handover of Biden allegations
                   • 11/25/19 Giuliani associate wants to testify that Nunes aides hid Ukraine meetings on Biden dirt from Schiff
                   • 11/25/19 Federal Subpoenas Seek Information on Giuliani’s Consulting Business
                   • 11/25/19 Why Giuliani Singled Out 2 Ukrainian Oligarchs to Help Look for Dirt 1
                   • 11/25/19 Investigators scrutinize Giuliani firm and donations to Trump super PAC as part of broad probe
                   • 11/26/19 Trump Denies Sending Rudy Giuliani to Ukraine for Biden Probe
                   • 11/27/19 Giuliani Pursued Business in Ukraine While Pushing for Inquiries for Trump
                   • 11/27/19 Giuliani was in talks to be paid by Ukraine’s top prosecutor as they together sought damaging information on Democrats
                   • 11/27/19 Trump contradicts testimony – and himself – by claiming he never directed Giuliani on Ukraine
                   • 12/02/19 Prosecutor says new charges ‘likely’ in case against Rudy Giuliani associates
                   • 12/02/19 New charges likely in case against Giuliani associates
                   • 12/02/19 U.S. ‘Likely’ to Bring New Charges in Giuliani-Allies Case
                   • 12/02/19 New charges likely in case against Rudy Giuliani associates, prosecutors say
                   • 12/02/19 Lawyer for Giuliani associate petitions court to release documents and recordings seized by feds to Congress
                   • 12/03/19 Giuliani mystery phone calls, texts uncovered by Democrats’ impeachment report
                   • 12/03/19 Report Reveals Call Records Between Giuliani, White House and Nunes
                   • 12/03/19 House Intelligence Committee sends report on Trump and Ukraine to judiciary panel, paving way for possible articles of impeachment
                   • 12/03/19 Call records show Devin Nunes in contact with indicted Giuliani associate
                   • 12/03/19 Impeachment Investigators Got Rudy Giuliani’s Phone Records—And They’re Quite Revealing
                   • 12/04/19 Giuliani, Facing Scrutiny, Travels to Europe to Interview Ukrainians
                   • 12/04/19 New York Times: Giuliani traveled to Hungary and Ukraine to meet with ex-prosecutors in effort to defend Trump
                   • 12/06/19 Pressure builds for Giuliani as associate enters talks over potential plea deal
                   • 12/06/19 Trump’s attorney Giuliani collects more dirt on visit to Kyiv
                   • 12/07/19 Trump: Giuliani ‘wants to go before Congress’ about Ukraine trip
                   • 12/07/19 Trump: Giuliani will report to Justice Department, Congress on his investigations in Ukraine
                   • 12/08/19 Inside Giuliani’s dual roles: Power-broker-for-hire and shadow foreign policy adviser
                   • 12/11/19 Giuliani Ally Parnas Got $1 Million From Russia, U.S. Says 1
                   • 12/11/19 Prosecutors Say Giuliani Associate Parnas Hid Income, Should Be Detained
                   • 12/12/19 US prosecutors turn to possible bribery charges in investigation over Ukrainian natural gas company
                   • 12/13/19 Trump attorney Rudy Giuliani spotted at White House amid House Judiciary impeachment vote
                   • 12/13/19 Rudy Giuliani heads to White House amid Trump impeachment drama over Ukraine scheme 4
                   • 12/13/19 ‘Just Having Fun’: Giuliani Doubles Down on Ukraine Probes 5
                   • 12/18/19 Graham warns Giuliani: ‘I hope you know what you’re talking about’
                   • 12/19/19 How 2 Soviet Émigrés Fueled the Trump Impeachment Flames
                   • 12/23/19 A Conversation With Rudy Giuliani Over Bloody Marys at the Mark Hotel 2
                   • 12/23/19 7 Wildest Quotes From Rudy Giuliani’s Boozy Interview With New York Magazine 3
                   • 12/23/19 The invisible man: Text messages reveal former golfer’s role in Ukraine scandal
                   • 12/24/19 Attorney Leaving Indicted Giuliani Associate Because ‘Ability to Fund’ Defense Has ‘Diminished’
                   • 01/01/19 Giuliani says he’d testify at Trump’s Senate trial, adds, ‘I’d love to try the case’
                   • 01/03/20 Judge: Indicted Giuliani associate may give records to House 3
                   • 01/13/20 Trump impeachment: Text messages and images that could expose president’s Ukraine dealings handed over to inquiry
                   • 01/13/20 Giuliani associate Lev Parnas turns over thousands of pages of documents to impeachment investigators
                   • 01/14/20 Press Release: Four Chairs Statement on Transmission of Additional Evidence as Part of Impeachment Inquiry
                   • 01/14/20 Documents Provide New Details of Trump’s Pressure Campaign on Ukraine
                   • 01/14/20 Democrats add last-minute evidence to Trump impeachment case before Senate trial
                   • 01/14/20 Ukraine prosecutor offered information related to Biden in exchange for ambassador’s ouster, newly released materials show 1
                   • 01/14/20 New Documents From Giuliani Associate Parnas Submitted for Impeachment Trial
                   • 01/15/20 Democrats release more Parnas evidence, including voicemails with Trump associates
                   • 01/15/20 Parnas used access to Trump’s world to help push shadow Ukraine effort, new documents show
                   • 01/15/20 Meet the Trump Donor Who Allegedly Stalked America’s Ambassador in Ukraine
                   • 01/15/20 Lev Parnas’s handwritten notes about Giuliani’s Ukraine push, annotated
                   • 01/15/20 Hyde to Parnas: ‘Wow. Can’t believe Trumo [sic] hasn’t fired this b***h’
                   • 01/15/20 Watch: Lev Parnas: ‘President Trump knew exactly what was going on.’
                   • 01/15/20 Watch: Lev Parnas: ‘Attorney General Barr was basically on the team.’
                   • 01/15/20 Watch: Lev Parnas remarks on role of Devin Nunes in Trump Ukraine Scheme
                   • 01/15/20 Lev Parnas, Key Player in Ukraine Affair, Completes Break With Trump and Giuliani
                   • 01/15/20 Lev Parnas: Trump ‘knew exactly what was going on’ in Ukraine
                   • 01/15/20 Giuliani associate Parnas says Trump ‘knew exactly what was going on’
                   • 01/16/20 Parnas Says He Warned Top Ukraine Aide on Potential Cutoff of Funds
                   • 01/16/20 4 takeaways from the Lev Parnas interview and revelations
                   • 01/16/20 Trump vigorously denies knowing Lev Parnas after explosive claims
                   • 01/16/20 Trump Says He Doesn’t Know Parnas Despite Multiple Photos
                   • 01/16/20 FBI investigators visit Robert Hyde’s home and office
                   • 01/16/20 FBI visits Robert Hyde’s home and office after he’s swept into Ukraine scheme
                   • 01/15/20 Read: Lev Parnas Interview Part 1- Transcript
                   • 01/16/20 Indicted Giuliani associate Parnas says Trump ordered Ukraine ambassador’s firing several times before recall
                   • 01/16/20 The Sordid Story of Impeachment
                   • 01/16/20 Watch: Lev Parnas Interview Part 2
                   • 01/16/20 Read: Lev Parnas Interview Part 2 – Transcript 1
                   • 01/17/20 Picture of Pam Bondi and Lev Parnas emerges after she joins Trump impeachment defense
                   • 01/18/20 New impeachment documents show more texts about possible surveillance of former US ambassador to Ukraine
                   • 01/18/20 Lev Parnas Dishes on Kushner, Maduro, and Soros
                   • 01/18/20 Newly released texts tie Nunes aide closer to Ukraine plot
                   • 01/18/20 Nunes aide communicated with Parnas about Ukraine campaign, messages show
                   • 01/20/20 Lev Parnas asks Attorney General William Barr to recuse himself from investigation
                   • 01/21/20 Lev Parnas Attorney Shares Video Of Mike Pence With Indicted Giuliani Associate After Vp Denies Knowing Him 1

                   Above links from WhatTheFuckHappenedToday community discussion and updated daily. As you can see there is a mountain of evidence which points firmly towards the fact that this aid was withheld purely for the purpose of electoral gain on the chumps part. It was only released when the shenanigans were discovered.
     • Stephen Doyle 2.1.2

       30 January 2020 at 3:24 pm

       The enemy of my enemy is my friend.
       • RedLogix 2.1.2.1

         30 January 2020 at 3:49 pm

         Like Stalin was?
         • In Vino 2.1.2.1.1

           30 January 2020 at 11:24 pm

           The enemy of my enemy is my very temporary friend if I have any brains at all..
3. RedLogix 3

   30 January 2020 at 9:28 am

   It looks very much like the Chinese govt has completed failed to contain the coronavirus.

   The only quarantine measure that will make any difference now is a total shutdown of all global travel for a month or so. Already airlines are cancelling China flights, it's only a matter of time before this measure is extended everywhere.
   • Rosemary McDonald 3.1

     30 January 2020 at 9:31 am

     But! But! The Economy!
     • RedLogix 3.1.1

       30 January 2020 at 9:51 am

       The upside is that this may be God's way of teaching us some Chinese geography
       • Poission 3.1.1.1

         30 January 2020 at 10:34 am

         Oil demand has decreased by around 250kbbl per day (around half in jetfuel) gaia moves in mysterious ways.
         • Dennis Frank 3.1.1.1.1

           30 January 2020 at 11:00 am

           Possibly too early for tourist company owners to start selling out, but if I were an investor I'd be strategically deploying assets now. Dunno if CEOs will jump out of windows nowadays either – but a sensible tourist company CEO would be scanning the sits vacant sites eh?

           And if the bug proves resilient as well as contagious, aircraft manufacturers may start to feel that Gaia has them in her sights. Well, if they had sufficient wit & imagination, I mean.
           • Graeme 3.1.1.1.1.1

             30 January 2020 at 2:13 pm

             Hopefully local operators will be able to pivot to the displaced NZ outbound market that will have to holiday at home. Outbound and inbound markets are of similar size. How the airlines and airports fare is another matter, you might not want to buy AIA shares today.
           • bwaghorn 3.1.1.1.1.2

             30 January 2020 at 2:16 pm

             This is a temporary blip

             It coronavirus will either be contained or more likely it will spread around the world and once it has it will be bau .
             • RedLogix …

               30 January 2020 at 2:22 pm

               Or not. Both my partner and I have suffered a few nasty bronchitis episodes in the past few years, so I've good reason to think we're vulnerable. At 3% mortality that's potentially 225m deaths. More than a blip buddy.

               To be clear I think this is pretty unlikely, but it can't be ruled out either.
               • Poission …

                 30 January 2020 at 2:28 pm

                 An outbreak in south auckland or the pacific islands,where measles occurred leaves a large target population with diminished immune responses.
             • Poission …

               30 January 2020 at 5:05 pm

               thought to peak around april.If china inc remains on quiet,you may have to feed the cull ewes till may.

               https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/119145269/coronavirus-threatens-meat-processing-as-cool-stores-fill-with-export-product
4. Billy 4

   30 January 2020 at 11:56 am

   Wowzers, maybe Bernie can do it?

   https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/sanders-campaign-predicting-iowa-caucuses-victory
   • James 4.1

     30 January 2020 at 12:39 pm

     Here is hoping. He is unelectable- just like Corbyn.
     • Billy 4.1.1

       30 January 2020 at 12:48 pm

       He's certainly facing a lot of powerful opposition, including Elizabeth Warren and her backers…
     • Kevin 4.1.2

       30 January 2020 at 1:44 pm

       Here's hoping. He is electable just like Trump.
     • Muttonbird 4.1.3

       30 January 2020 at 6:45 pm

       Liar.

       At the 1983 general election he was elected member of Parliament for the Islington North.

       He's held it ever since.

       And on the Labour leadership election:

       His margin of victory was said to be "the largest mandate ever won by a party leader"

       Interesting reading his wiki page. He was a fierce campaigner against war and Apartheid South Africa, and for gay rights and nuclear disarmament.

       I can see why you don't like him…
       • James 4.1.3.1

         30 January 2020 at 7:49 pm

         Was talking in the context of PM – as we are generally speaking about the leader of the country as context not the local election.
         • Muttonbird 4.1.3.1.1

           30 January 2020 at 8:22 pm

           Ok. Like Simon Bridges unelectable.
           • James 4.1.3.1.1.1

             31 January 2020 at 7:09 am

             I’d bet he gets more votes than jacinda (Nat vs labour) come the election.
             • Muttonbird …

               31 January 2020 at 8:37 am

               Yet still unelectable. Doubly awful.
             • Robert Guyton …

               31 January 2020 at 9:12 am

               The Nats are pumping their "outrage" gland in preparation for being robbed of their right to rule by Jacinda again!
5. Billy 5

   30 January 2020 at 12:05 pm

   Elizabeth Warren proposes making it a crime to spread disinformation online.

   Who will get to decide what is true and what is false?

   The government.

   CNBC:

   https://www.cnbc.com/2020/01/29/warren-proposes-criminal-penalties-for-spreading-disinformation-online.html
6. Ad 6

   30 January 2020 at 1:46 pm

   CoronaVirus will take at least 1% off China's GDP.

   literally China sneezes we get a cold.

   Tourism, food and beverage, students: it will take at least 1% GDP growth off us as well.

   This could be a new Asia Financial Crisis event for our region
   • RedLogix 6.1

     30 January 2020 at 2:56 pm

     Given the pressures I've outlined previously on the China GDP, 1% may be optimistic. The CCP may succeed in getting this under control, but the window of opportunity to do it easily seems to have slammed shut already.

     We all have to wish them the best in this.
7. mosa 7

   30 January 2020 at 3:15 pm

   " “The Government’s prioritisation of resource intensive roading projects over the wellbeing of our most vulnerable families is out of line with its rhetoric of poverty reduction and is instead a continuation of the status quo "

   https://thedailyblog.co.nz/2020/01/30/low-income-families-left-out-of-12billion-infrastructure-package-aaap
   • Poission 7.1

     30 January 2020 at 3:51 pm

     So an increased borrowing for hnz of around 4billion is doing nothing.

     https://www.newsroom.co.nz/2020/01/20/991131/kinga-oras-borrowing-limit-lifted-by-4b
   • Wayne 7.2

     30 January 2020 at 4:14 pm

     Infrastructure spending and the relief of the most vulnerable families is really a capital and income distinction.

     The infrastructure spending uses capital (often borrowed) and it is spent over several years to build capital projects. These are capital intensive.

     Relief of poverty is income related, that is more welfare spending, more health and education spending. House building is already proceeding at pace.

     So I would expect those sort of announcements in the budget. They are paid out of current revenue. I imagine another billion or so per year. That would be a 6% increase in benefits and similar level increases in health.
     • Nic the NZer 7.2.1

       30 January 2020 at 10:43 pm

       So with this capital vs income distinction what happens when

       A) the govt unexpectedly finds its welfare outgoings are not covered by anticipated tax revenues.

       B) the govt unexpectedly finds that its committed investment spending is covered by prevailing tax revenues.

       E.g does the DMO look at what is being spent on when deciding how to cover the deficit.
8. Andre 8

   30 January 2020 at 4:39 pm

   Oh wow. Dershowitz's hallucinatory fantasy about what are acceptable presidential actions is really something.

   https://edition.cnn.com/2020/01/29/politics/dershowitz-quid-pro-quo/index.html
   • Macro 8.1

     30 January 2020 at 4:54 pm

     

     [I think I’ve managed to fix the width of the image]
     • Andre 8.1.1

       30 January 2020 at 4:58 pm

       The full image needs to be viewed. On a desktop, right-click on the image and select View Image.

       Dunno how to do it on a mobile, sorry.
     • Dennis Frank 8.1.2

       30 January 2020 at 5:30 pm

       Try this: https://www.realclearpolitics.com/cartoons/cartoons_of_the_week/2020/04/-8-mike_luckovich-mike_luckovich_for_jan_24_2020.html

       Use the back arrow & check out #4 too. I tried copying the cartoon pic (but got an error message saying it was too long when I pasted it as comment).
     • pat 8.1.3

       30 January 2020 at 6:54 pm

       LMAO…thank you
9. Macro 9

   30 January 2020 at 5:09 pm

   Trump builds the best Walls ever! And Mexico is paying for it.

   

   https://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/480608-portion-of-newly-built-wall-on-mexico-border-collapses?fbclid=IwAR1kBNQlA4O0UI_w1eRUZuhi5aRGoaoS8pcqMQ2Ab8MqLnvQ625H_R9VR_8
10. sumsuch 10

    30 January 2020 at 10:55 pm

    I'd like to see Bernie, as the final truth, after his lifetime for reality, say it's either him and socialism or the rich's Fascism. But spell it out better for the Yanks. His organisation … Clarity is his only strength.
11. sumsuch 11

    30 January 2020 at 10:59 pm

    We do understand , getting down to the point in the climate change crisis, it's either socialism, or fascism for the rich. It needs selling, and none of the Left 'sell' anymore while that's all the rich shits do.
    • James 11.1

      31 January 2020 at 7:11 am

      Using terms like rich shits makes me think you have some envy going on there sumsum.
12. Eco maori 12

    2 February 2020 at 6:37 am

    https://youtu.be/qQfetkoGrpU
13. Eco maori 13

    2 February 2020 at 6:30 pm

    Kia Ora Newshub.

    Condolences to Mike Moore whanau for their loss.

    That's hot in Hawksbay 37 a record breaker to the deniers are still spinning there lies.

    Condolences to the people who losted their tamariki in Australia.

    That was predicted many years ago New Zealand becaming the holiday home for the rich and famous in the process making it harder for the common tangata to live.

    Ka kite Ano
14. Eco maori 14

    2 February 2020 at 6:53 pm

    Kia Ora Te Ao Maori News.

    Assistant is needed in the provenances as from what I see they have been drifting backwards for decades. Maori miss out on heaps of business opportunities because the system is discriminatiory against us I have seen it in many industries.

    Waitangi will be interesting this year.

    Te Ka pa Haka is growing every year Ka pai

    Ka kite Ano
15. Eco maori 15

    3 February 2020 at 8:39 am

    Kia Ora The Am Show.

    We all know how the stuff that ends up in some peoples hip pockets influence their political behaviour and opinions.

    Prince Charles is and has been Championing to minimise and mitigate Human Caused Climate change for decades I can see his influence in Britain they are way ahead of New Zealand's on their policys to minimise their carbon footprint and global warming.

    Ka kite Ano
16. Eco maori 16

    3 February 2020 at 6:29 pm

    Kia Ora Newshub.

    Fiordland record breaking rains this was all pridicted.

    I have been in that bar.

    I think the government should fully focus and fund the plan to control Kauri Dieback virus the taonga are thousands of years old and in 250 years the could be extinct.

    Ka kite Ano.
17. Eco maori 17

    3 February 2020 at 6:54 pm

    Kia Ora Te Ao Maori News.

    That's is cool the statue of Dame Whina Cooper it's great to remember Te Tipuna.

    Cool rasing putea for our Australian neighbours bushfires relief fund.

    Awsome to see new Maori waita.

    I love watching Kapa Haka especially from my whare whenua.

    Ka kite Ano
18. Eco maori 18

    4 February 2020 at 8:47 am

    Kia Ora The Am Show.

    Times are changing most people in Aotearoa know some of the truths about how this system has treated and is treating Tangata Whenua.

    The Internet is the technology that changed the world for good and bad. Working from home if your mahi is computer based is the way of the future. Skype will be used instead of flying hundreds of miles to business meetings.

    Enjoy your retirement Chris.

    The Mainland yelloweye penguin are quite unique cool.

    Ka kite Ano

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