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Open mike 30/05/2020

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, May 30th, 2020 - 51 comments
Categories: open mike - Tags:

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For announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose.

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Step up to the mike …

51 comments on “Open mike 30/05/2020 ”

  1. Dennis Frank 1

    "Three women were killed in the fortnight following lockdown. Overseas, such deaths are called "Coronavirus murders". https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12335695

    "Ang Jury, chief executive of Women's Refuge, said …"These are three ugly incidents of very vulnerable people being hurt by vulnerable people," she said. "And that's stuff that's always been in the too-hard basket, too expensive. What do we do with people who won't accept help or can't? We talk about choice but choice is relative. If every choice in front of you is bad it's hard to work out which one to make." But she doubted the stories of Angela, and Tania, and Shirley would be remembered, sad as they were."

    "Domestic assault has ballooned worldwide during the pandemic, including in New Zealand, where police reported an initial 20 per cent increase in calls."

    "The most recent Family Violence Death Review Committee report, which looked at the lives of 97 violent men, found the most common feature of those who went on to kill was a violent childhood. Trauma also had an impact on girls, who grew up believing that women were to blame for the violence experienced, and so the pattern continued."

    Increased funding for mental health professionals seems part of the solution, but we continue to not get stats on rehabilitation. You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink. Male offenders often feel remorse, but if therapy fails to reprogram them, there's a likelihood of re-offending. Therapy has to go deep within to transform someone effectively. Then the person can heal via adopting a new attitude & lifestyle.

    • Sacha 1.1

      Intimate partner violence is a social problem that we can not solve with 'therapy' for individuals.

      • Dennis Frank 1.1.1

        Yes, I do agree that social problems require social solutions. In respect of recidivist male violence, therapy is only a (possible) solution for individuals.

        In respect of factors amplifying violence in young families, the prospect of nipping the cycle in the bud hasn't yet been translated into effective policy as far as I can tell. Until it is, rehabilitation seems to be the default position of govt.

        • Sacha 1.1.1.1

          So how was the way you chose to frame that story helpful to discussion here?

          • Dennis Frank 1.1.1.1.1

            Societal comprehension of the relation between rehabilitation as put into practice by the system and outcomes is the requisite focus from the perspective of victims, right? Released recidivist offenders who proceed to do it again tend to be a threat to the next victim. Better if the system works as intended…

            • weka 1.1.1.1.1.1

              I suspect you aren't listening to what victims say about their perspectives.

              The govt should throw a shitload of money towards Māori communities. Providers, and actual societal solutions (poverty reduction, housing etc). Māori already have the models for managing wellbeing within holistic frames of individual, whānau, community, as well as physical/mental/social/spiritual. And they've been developing expertise in anti-violence and beyond violence strategies.

              Therapy and measuring efficacy vs recidivism is part of that, but not the major focus imo.

              • Dennis Frank

                I was listening to the victim's advocate quoted: "What do we do with people who won't accept help or can't? We talk about choice but choice is relative. If every choice in front of you is bad it's hard to work out which one to make."

                You think the CEO of Refuge isn't commenting on the offenders? Seems to me she is. The policies you mention are part of the solution – I'm more interested in whether they work when applied.

                • weka

                  She said,

                  "These are three ugly incidents of very vulnerable people being hurt by vulnerable people," she said. "And that's stuff that's always been in the too-hard basket, too expensive. What do we do with people who won't accept help or can't? We talk about choice but choice is relative. If every choice in front of you is bad it's hard to work out which one to make."

                  I took that to mean that,

                  1. that offenders are people who have also been damaged, and this is key to solving violence
                  2. we're not putting funding into the things that work in *that context because it will cost more money
                  3. for people locked into violence there are often no good choices (subtext: you can't 'rehabilitate' individuals without rehabilitating society ie create better options that people can then choose).
            • Sacha 1.1.1.1.1.2

              Why link to a story about this societal problem then only talk about rehabilitation of individuals after offending has already happened? Why focus on recidivism?

              Who does that serve?

              • Dennis Frank

                As I explained to Weka, the focus ought to be on whether policies work when applied – and if not, why not? Societal learning ought to focus on this because we've had 30 years go by since I wrote the rehabilitation clause into Greens justice policy and I'm not getting persuasive evidence that it is effective as applied. The principle seems valid – if enough offenders get cured. But often these news stories mention that the murderer was released after a similar murder years before.

                • Sacha

                  Us men owe the discussion better than individualising a collective problem. What are we avoiding?

                • weka

                  I think it depends on what you mean by rehabilitation. If you are focused on the individual, then it's kind of a moot point about efficacy of policy. I think we're well passed the point that this is about individuals. If we keep focusing on individual recidivism, we miss the bigger and important picture.

                  • weka

                    if you are talking about what happens to men's violence when holistic approaches are used, that's a different story.

  2. Sacha 2

    Timely

  3. Dennis Frank 3

    "It isn’t economic growth that drives environmental destruction and inequality. It is the driver that lies behind economic growth: capital accumulation and the profit motive. This does mean, then, transitioning away from capitalism to postcapitalist societies." https://www.resilience.org/stories/2020-05-27/how-to-fix-the-world/

    There's the intellectual project for radicals. The Greens have been brainstorming this transition since the '80s. Now if we could just get the leftists on board, weaned off their addiction to capitalism…

    • Andre 3.1

      It is a fundamental misdiagnosis of the problem. As shown by the way non-capitalist societies can be just as enthusiastic about environmental destruction and inequality.

      The problem lies much more in the area of unpriced externalities and underpricing value extracted from the commons. Unpriced externalities are vividly exemplified by the ongoing dumping of hazardous waste into the atmosphere and waterways at zero or negligible cost. Underpriced value extracted from the commons is shown by the pitiful or zero royalties paid by mining and water bottling companies. Many other examples of both can be easily found.

      • Dennis Frank 3.1.1

        Oh, indeed, I've made that point here in the past. We adopted the principle of true-cost accounting 30 years ago. Still in GP policy last time I looked (around 2015).

        The task now is to actually embark on the new trajectory. The planning/design stage has gone on long enough. Post-neoliberalism has to become the primary focus.

        • roblogic 3.1.1.1

          The libertarian argument is that all resources should be privately held so they are better managed. It has merit, because govt regulation fails so often, or enforcement is lax, allowing thieves and pirates to plunder the commons.

          • Dennis Frank 3.1.1.1.1

            Simplistic, eh? Nature is a commons, traditionally. I wouldn't extend the principle to Gaia (in the sense of the super-system as organiser of organisms).

            Now if you operated society on the basis of the stewardship ethic, you could authorise private entities as operational stewards on a conditional basis. In the contract or charter used, accountability to the public interest would have to be principle #1.

            Just write that as a principle, with the operational method of enforcement to be specified in an appendix. If you're a gambler, you'd leave the outcome of enforcement to the courts. I'd write in a public advocate's office as well.

  4. Sanctuary 4

    A major emerging economic risk in the COVID-19 recovery is councils, which are adopting a simple minded, neoliberal austerity response with budget cutting that will be counter-productive.

    Auckland's emergency budget has Goff's fingerprints all over it – managerialist, utterly unimaginative across the board cost cutting driven by an austerity philosophy that will wreck the city for a decade.

    Lakes District – a council characterised by nepotism and patronage and run by and for a self-interested cronyist collective of land speculators – has also adopted simple minded, debt driven cost cutting – https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/58325/queenstown-council-to-vote-on-cost-cutting-measures

    Napier City Council is another local body largely run by and for the local landlord class and it prides itself on low debt and cost cutting in the perennial persuit of lower rates and it is also – quelle surprise! – cost cutting. The potential link between the regions steady slide backwards into economic irrelevance and the quasi-feudal corruption and narrow minded 19th century economics of it's local government is neither recognised or discussed there – especially as the extinction of local media means no one examines or holds to account the local elites anymore.

    Central government needs to ensure the often corrupt and incompetent and usually nepotistic local government in provincial NZ, and the governance of our largest city which is an order of magnitude more competent but still governed with a morbid fear of a narrow band of Remuera ratepayers, does not endanger our economic recovery.

    Also, on another topic – Fran O’Sullivan would be a lot more credible in her demands (who does she think she is? She is an aging boomer writing behind a paywall of a failing newspaper well past it’s best) if she hadn’t spent the entire last ten weeks quibbling, shroud waving and generally representing her constituency (anti-lockdown, anti-Labour right wing Auckland big business) on the government response to COVID-19 in everything she has written or tweeted.

    • logie97 4.1

      Thanks Sanctuary.

      Since the Herald went behind the paywall, I have not read the newspaper. And thus the clickbait links to the bigotry of the likes of Hoskins et al have disappeared from my web browsing. And I had almost forgotten that O'Sullivan existed. Damn it – the image has just been refreshed…

      • roblogic 4.1.1

        The herald changed its paywall recently so my hacks don't work 😭

        Article text is still available from "view source" but it's a drag finding it amidst the ad heavy guff

        • Nic the NZer 4.1.1.1

          I have to wonder what the Herald thinks its protecting by a paywall system which has a work around built into literally every web-browser.

          I think the main purpose of the paywall is for the intimidation of the journalists and writers.

      • woodart 4.1.2

        yes ,heralds paywall has been an own goal. readership will have plummeted, advertisers wont be happy. think this has been behind their unsubtle attempts to join forces with, kill off etc stuff. heralds opinion writers are increasingly in an echo chamber.

    • Sacha 4.2

      It's not as if they are left with much choice under current arrangements.

      Central govt has long refused local bodies any ways to fund their activities other than user charges and rates and a limited amount of borrowing (already maxed out).

      Other nations fund local government better. It is an important layer of our response to this crisis, as you note.

      • weka 4.2.1

        Seems like putting shitloads of money into stadiums and such instead of resilience infrastructure wasn't such a good idea after all.

        • Sacha 4.2.1.1

          Stadiums, cruise ship moorings and yacht races are good for the economy doncha know. 🙂

        • Graeme 4.2.1.2

          Especially where the local body funds the stadium with funds derived in another local area.

          https://www.thewanakasun.co.nz/news/13122-auroras-price-hike-commercial-banditry-wnaka.html

          (QLDC Councillor Quinten) Smith said; “The DCC and in turn residents of the DCC had been financially benefiting from taking funds from the company while it failed to maintain the network in the outlying districts. Most clearly seen in the power pole scandal but also evident in its underlying struggles in our region. The massive catchup in infrastructure cost is now being sought to be loaded on the smaller communities while giving the DCC residents a lesser increase.

          “Residents of the Upper Clutha should be outraged that we are wearing an undue cost burden to the benefit of the DCC. Both the DCC and Aurora continue to act with contempt for their customers who do not sit within the DCC district.

      • pat 4.2.2

        "Other nations fund local government better."

        Any examples you wish to nominate?

    • Molly 4.3

      As a note: any Aucklanders wanting to comment on the Auckland Council Emergency Budget proposals can do so here, up until the 19th June.

      Be forewarned, as usual the "consultation" is designed to limit your answers to the best out of bad choices. Use the additional comments to really have your say.

  5. Stephen D 5

    http://www.kiwipolitico.com/2020/05/while-we-were-locked-down/

    An interesting read.

    Especially Pablo’s comment at 11.58 regarding the role of Judith Collins in the National Party. Is she really that Machiavellian?

    • McFlock 5.1

      She'd like to be.

      But if Muller gets nuked and she takes over, she'll tank. Maybe take some of Winston's vote, but that's about it. And by then the next corporate pretender is waiting in the wings.

    • "Is she really that Machiavellian?"

      Yes she is in a 'who Moi?" kind of way! Why Moi! MOI?, How very dare you!

      And while Paula doesn't realise it yet, she's a far better actress – even while Paula's spent a few years practicing her facial gymnastics during QT.

      I wouldn't mind watching them in one of those roller-blade derbies with Anne Tolley as adjudicator. Better than the current lot of reality TV programming

  6. God help the USA deal with its malignant sickness

  7. joe90 7

    Lotsa looting going on. Someone should do something.

    Since March 18th, over 40.7 million people have filed for unemployment according to the Bureau of Labor Statistics. This doesn’t include millions more who have applied for help as self-employed workers.

    Millions of these people have lost their health insurance that was linked to their jobs.

    Over the same 10 weeks, between March 18 and May 28, the wealth of U.S. billionaires has surged $485 billion, almost half a trillion dollars — an increase of 16.5 percent. There are also 16 more billionaires in the U.S. than there were ten weeks ago.

    Two billionaires, Jeff Bezos and Mark Zuckerberg, have seen their combined wealth increase over $63 billion since March 18th.

    The surge in billionaire wealth during a global pandemic underscores the grotesque nature of unequal sacrifice. While millions risk their lives and livelihoods as first responders and front line workers, these billionaires benefit from an economy and tax system that is wired to funnel wealth to the top.

    https://inequality.org/billionaire-bonanza-2020-updates/

  8. joe90 8

    Making Xi, Kim and Poots proud.

  9. joe90 9

    When cruelty is your thing.

    The Trump administration is finalizing rules that will allow hunters in Alaska’s national preserves to shoot bears and wolves, and their cubs and pups, while they are in their dens.

    The National Park Service is reversing regulations written by the Barack Obama administration, which banned some of the much-criticized practices for hunting the predators, including luring bears with food like doughnuts.

    Jesse Prentice-Dunn, policy director for the Center for Western Priorities, called the rule change “amazingly cruel” and said it was “just the latest in a string of efforts to reduce protections for America’s wildlife at the behest of oil companies and trophy hunters”.

    The park service’s deputy director, David Vela, said the change would “more closely align hunting and trapping regulations with those established by the state of Alaska”.

    https://www.motherjones.com/environment/2020/05/new-amazingly-cruel-trump-public-land-rules-will-let-alaska-hunters-kill-bear-cubs-in-dens/

  10. joe90 10

    They claimed the cartoon infringed the MAGA trademark.

  11. Incognito 11

    What on Earth is going on here? It feels like a set-up and manufactured dissent to polarise and divide.

    https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2020/05/kiwi-lefties-pile-on-british-writer-who-praised-nz-and-jacinda-ardern.html

    Whose agenda is this or is it just lazy ‘journalism’ and click-bait? Hard to tell, nowadays 🙁

    Dan Satherley

    Dan is a senior digital producer for Newshub based in Auckland.

    None of the highlighted comments seem to match any of the 50 comments under the original article in Medium!? In fact, most of those were highly positive of and praising the OP.

    https://medium.com/p/4c9faa78f9b3/responses/show

    • lprent 11.1

      umair haque keeps coming up in my medium feed. Personally I tend to find him to be somewhat tedious and repetitive. Stopped reading his articles a while back.

      It is a bit like reading some of the commenters here. Relentlessly negative (which I can live with), never coming up with any good ideas about other ways of doing anything (which makes his articles relentlessly pointless).

      None of the highlighted comments seem to match any of the 50 comments under the original article in Medium!?

      But yeah, you’re right. That is bloody odd. I suspect that Dan S is all a twitter and was referring to comments there (ie a dimwit). Apart from anything else I can’t recall a place to put in a profile description…

      Ah, yes there is one a bio – just added it myself.
      https://medium.com/@lynn.prentice

    • weka 11.2

      the piece got heckled on twitter, where there is a thing now of how people overseas are commenting on NZ, Ardern and covid. There were lefties pointing out the problems with the piece, sometimes very bluntly in that kiwi left way. Hardly worth a Shub piece, but I guess anything that shows dissent is considered clickbait. I'd have no problem if the Shub piece had actually explored the issues.

  12. gsays 12

    "I don't think you wanted to do that."

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/science/300024543/spacex-starship-prototype-explodes

    Last night I stumbled across this, a Rocket Factory tour with the CEO, Tory Bruno.Very imformative for the casual and full geek.

  13. Morrissey 13

    Threatening, aggressive rhetoric by a dangerous politician is recast as a "stoush." Who do the TVNZ news producers imagine relates to this trivializing and juvenile language?

    TVNZ1 News, Saturday 30 May 2020, 6:25 p.m.

    As anyone who has watched CNN, Fox, MSNBC, the BBC, RT, Al Jazeera will appreciate, television news in every country is at a low ebb, probably as low as it has ever been. Unlike our stellar response to the coronavirus, New Zealand cannot claim that we are in any way superior to other countries. At 6:25 p.m. newsreader Melissa Stokes read out, robotically, that the United States is threatening to pull out of trade agreements with Hong Kong "as President Trump ramps up his stoush with China."

    More Melissa Stokes autocue struggles (for any masochists out there)….

    https://morrisseybreen.blogspot.com/2018/01/former-south-korean-military-di-uh.html

  14. greywarshark 14

    Sounds sensible. Times and conditions change, and rules and regs need to be appropriate and timely. This from NZ Geographic weekender:

    Food for thought

    Yesterday, the not-for-profit organisation Legasea proposed ditching the Quota Management System that regulates New Zealand's commercial fishing industry. Instead, Legasea suggests a government buy-back of quota, followed by a licensing scheme which aims to achieve four things: taking pressure off the marine environment, more equitable distribution of benefits, a higher-value commercial sector and better compensation for Māori.

    From Business Scoop about Legasea's proposals:

    http://business.scoop.co.nz/2020/05/28/plan-released-to-restore-fish-stocks-and-revitalise-new-zealands-commercial-fishing-sector/

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